Re: AI and social destabilization

[spudboy100 via Everything List]

according to many nerds, humans won't be at the forefront of anything, due to 
AI, and machine learning. being "leader of the free world," and other such 
statements, are merely, sales pitches from lawyers who get elected into office, 
and so called journalists. Stumbling after people in the EU like Juncker, for 
example is not in our interest. Plus, to be honest, I wouldn't trade Cincinnati 
for Malmo, Fika notwithstanding. Call it cultural programming. 



-Original Message-
From: Telmo Menezes <te...@telmomenezes.com>
To: everything-list <everything-list@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Wed, Jun 21, 2017 6:03 am
Subject: Re: AI and social destabilization

I completely agree with you for a change.

The job-centered society is already looking silly, and will soon look
like medieval superstition. I am waiting for a wave of politicians
that talk about "destroying jobs" instead of "creating jobs", but I
won't hold my breath. I think that the current state of affairs rests
on two things, that are very hard to break:

- A global financial system that only knows how to redistribute wealth
through employment -- but is becoming worse and worse even at doing
that;
- A set of social norms that makes self-worth dependent on employment.

There are no jobs for everyone anymore, not by a long shot. This is
already happening, and the jobs are nor coming back. We have now
entered a silly situation where bullshit jobs are created to prevent
social collapse. This is not only silly but also tragic. We create
prisons for each other for no good reason at all. This is extra silly
in corporate environments, where people are pressured to "work" more
and more hours. It's all mindless virtue signalling.

Of course (for now), someone has to do the unpleasant work that keeps
civilisation running. I don't think that UBI is the only solution. For
example, why can't we work for one decade and live off that money for
the rest of our life spans? The only reason I can see is that the game
is rigged against this being possible. It is most definitely possible
at the higher leves of income, so why not for the common person? Money
is an abstraction, and this abstraction can be redefined -- as it was
already in the past.

If you guys in the US don't manage to get rid of idiots like Trump, I
don't think it is possible that you will be on the forefront of
western civilisation for the next round.

Telmo.


On Tue, Jun 20, 2017 at 10:10 PM, John Clark <johnkcl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Jobs are already being lost because of the improvements in AI and it's not
> just unskilled workers that are in trouble. Don't think that because you're
> so smart a AI could never do your job better than you can so the AI
> revolution can't effect you personally
> ;
> in March of this year Blackrock, the world's biggest money manager with
> stock funds worth over $275 billion, announced they would fire over 40
> employees including some portfolio managers with astronomical paychecks. The
> reason is they decided to let computers running AI software pick stocks and
> manage 11% of their funds instead of humans.  89% of Blackston's fund
> managers still have a job, but if I was one of them I might decide I don't
> need to buy a new Rolls Royce every month and it would be wise for me to
> start saving my money for a rainy day. Improving technology has created a
> huge gap between the rich and the poor and the gap isn't just increasing
> it's accelerating.
>
> In 2010 the richest 388 people had as much wealth as half of the entire
> human race, that's 3.6 Billion people. In 2014 the richest 85 people did. In
> 2015 the richest 62 people did. This year the richest 8 people did. Think of
> it, the 8 richest Human beings have as much wealth as the poorest 3.6
> BILLION Human beings! History has pretty decisively shown that huge
> inequality just ain't healthy for any society, although history has no
> examples of inequality of
> the
>  magnitude
> we have now.
>
> The improvements in AI that are certain to come
>
> in the next few years
>
> will only accelerate the acceleration of this socially destabilizing trend
> unless something pushes back, something like government action. Health
> insurance for all might be a good place to start. However Donald Trump wants
> to push for lowering taxes on the rich, getting rid of the inheritance tax,
> and eliminating health care for
>
> the
>
> 24 million
>
> poorest people in the country;
>
>  but that's pushing in the wrong direction and will only accelerate the
> acceleration of
> the acceleration
> of the wealth gap.
>
> Anybody who is not terrified by this doesn't understand the situation.
>
> One way or another this trend will NOT continue, if government action
> doesn't slow down the widening of the gap somethi

Re: AI and social destabilization

[Telmo Menezes]

I completely agree with you for a change.

The job-centered society is already looking silly, and will soon look
like medieval superstition. I am waiting for a wave of politicians
that talk about "destroying jobs" instead of "creating jobs", but I
won't hold my breath. I think that the current state of affairs rests
on two things, that are very hard to break:

- A global financial system that only knows how to redistribute wealth
through employment -- but is becoming worse and worse even at doing
that;
- A set of social norms that makes self-worth dependent on employment.

There are no jobs for everyone anymore, not by a long shot. This is
already happening, and the jobs are nor coming back. We have now
entered a silly situation where bullshit jobs are created to prevent
social collapse. This is not only silly but also tragic. We create
prisons for each other for no good reason at all. This is extra silly
in corporate environments, where people are pressured to "work" more
and more hours. It's all mindless virtue signalling.

Of course (for now), someone has to do the unpleasant work that keeps
civilisation running. I don't think that UBI is the only solution. For
example, why can't we work for one decade and live off that money for
the rest of our life spans? The only reason I can see is that the game
is rigged against this being possible. It is most definitely possible
at the higher leves of income, so why not for the common person? Money
is an abstraction, and this abstraction can be redefined -- as it was
already in the past.

If you guys in the US don't manage to get rid of idiots like Trump, I
don't think it is possible that you will be on the forefront of
western civilisation for the next round.

Telmo.


On Tue, Jun 20, 2017 at 10:10 PM, John Clark  wrote:
> Jobs are already being lost because of the improvements in AI and it's not
> just unskilled workers that are in trouble. Don't think that because you're
> so smart a AI could never do your job better than you can so the AI
> revolution can't effect you personally
> ;
> in March of this year Blackrock, the world's biggest money manager with
> stock funds worth over $275 billion, announced they would fire over 40
> employees including some portfolio managers with astronomical paychecks. The
> reason is they decided to let computers running AI software pick stocks and
> manage 11% of their funds instead of humans.  89% of Blackston's fund
> managers still have a job, but if I was one of them I might decide I don't
> need to buy a new Rolls Royce every month and it would be wise for me to
> start saving my money for a rainy day. Improving technology has created a
> huge gap between the rich and the poor and the gap isn't just increasing
> it's accelerating.
>
> In 2010 the richest 388 people had as much wealth as half of the entire
> human race, that's 3.6 Billion people. In 2014 the richest 85 people did. In
> 2015 the richest 62 people did. This year the richest 8 people did. Think of
> it, the 8 richest Human beings have as much wealth as the poorest 3.6
> BILLION Human beings! History has pretty decisively shown that huge
> inequality just ain't healthy for any society, although history has no
> examples of inequality of
> the
>  magnitude
> we have now.
>
> The improvements in AI that are certain to come
>
> in the next few years
>
> will only accelerate the acceleration of this socially destabilizing trend
> unless something pushes back, something like government action. Health
> insurance for all might be a good place to start. However Donald Trump wants
> to push for lowering taxes on the rich, getting rid of the inheritance tax,
> and eliminating health care for
>
> the
>
> 24 million
>
> poorest people in the country;
>
>  but that's pushing in the wrong direction and will only accelerate the
> acceleration of
> the acceleration
> of the wealth gap.
>
> Anybody who is not terrified by this doesn't understand the situation.
>
> One way or another this trend will NOT continue, if government action
> doesn't slow down the widening of the gap something far far more unpleasant
> will.
> If
> I were one of those 8 hyper rich people I'd be calling for change louder
> than anyone because I like the fact that there is a connection between my
> head and my shoulders and would prefer to keep it that way.
> Let me be clear,
> I'm not talking about "should", I'm not talking about morality, I'm just
> saying
> that
> when the gap between the rich and the poor gets
> too
> large social instability occurs
> and that can be very unhealthy for those at the very top.
>
>
>  John K Clark
>
>
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
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> email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
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> Visit this group at 

Re: AI and social destabilization

[spudboy100 via Everything List]

It depends on how fast automation of jobs occurs?  We obvious can make superb 
robots for any sort of physical labor, as exemplified by the Boston Dynamics 
robot fleet. What is missing-as with all electric cars- is a reliable power 
storage format. There seems to be tons or great engineering being reported that 
could power cars and robots for hours and hours, plus, now, fast wireless 
charging, but unless Musk produces it, physical laborers must wait a while. 
Rostrum's Universal Robots (Czech for workers) as envisioned almost a century 
ago. Automation of office jobs, from engineers to clerks may occur much faster. 
The Young do believe that the state will care for their needs, because it 
sounds like an easy answer and we all like easy answers. What happens of course 
is beyond my control. I don't fear the robots for some reason and looking 
forward to walking androids, simply because I like walking androids. 



-Original Message-
From: John Clark <johnkcl...@gmail.com>
To: everything-list <everything-list@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Tue, Jun 20, 2017 7:52 pm
Subject: Re: AI and social destabilization






On Tue, Jun 20, 2017  spudboy100 via Everything List 
<everything-list@googlegroups.com> wrote:





> The millennials, whom I interact with, Professor, believe that there will be 
> a Universal Basic Income (UBI) to rescue them, if they are "dis-employed," by 
> automation. I, of course, oppose,



​Mr. Spudboy, this isn't something that is just going to effect those "other 
people". I humbly suggest you stop worrying about millennials liberals and 
conservatives and start to consider how you personally intent to make a living 
when robots in your own profession of potato farming can do your job better 
than you can.  


 John K Clark  







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Re: AI and social destabilization

[John Clark]

On Tue, Jun 20, 2017  spudboy100 via Everything List <
everything-list@googlegroups.com> wrote:


> The millennials, whom I interact with, Professor, believe that there will
> be a Universal Basic Income (UBI) to rescue them, if they are
> "dis-employed," by automation. I, of course, oppose,


​Mr. Spudboy, this isn't something that is just going to effect those
"other people". I humbly suggest you stop worrying about millennials
liberals and conservatives and start to consider how you personally intent
to make a living when robots in your own profession of potato farming can
do your job better than you can.

 John K Clark

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Re: AI and social destabilization

[spudboy100 via Everything List]

Yes, unless the 3rd gen robots also purchase and sell goods and services. 
"Humans not welcome!" Ok, thanks ;-) 



-Original Message-
From: Hans Moravec <hans.p.mora...@gmail.com>
To: spudboy100 via Everything List <everything-list@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Tue, Jun 20, 2017 7:20 pm
Subject: Re: AI and social destabilization





On 170620, at 6:55 PM, spudboy100 via Everything List 
<everything-list@googlegroups.com> wrote:


Will UBI triumph



Can’t sell if no one is able to buy



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Re: AI and social destabilization

[Hans Moravec]

> On 170620, at 6:55 PM, spudboy100 via Everything List 
>  wrote:
> 
> Will UBI triumph

Can’t sell if no one is able to buy

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Re: AI and social destabilization

[spudboy100 via Everything List]

The millennials, whom I interact with, Professor, believe that there will be a 
Universal Basic Income (UBI) to rescue them, if they are "dis-employed," by 
automation. I, of course, oppose, because I am cynical enough to be aware of 
how billionaires decide things, away from journalists and closer to lobbyists. 
I "oppose" meaning, that I believe the 'dis-employed,' will get zero, from the 
loving governments of the world. What is your opinion on this? Will UBI 
triumph, despite my negativity, or am I on to something? 



-Original Message-
From: Hans Moravec <hans.p.mora...@gmail.com>
To: 'Chris de Morsella' via Everything List <everything-list@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Tue, Jun 20, 2017 6:05 pm
Subject: Re: AI and social destabilization





On 170620, at 5:57 PM, Brent Meeker <meeke...@verizon.net> wrote:


And don't get too comfortable because you're not one of those billionaires.  
I'd guess that everyone on this list is in the top 0.002% of the world wealth 
distribution.

Brent








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Re: AI and social destabilization

[Hans Moravec]

> On 170620, at 5:57 PM, Brent Meeker  wrote:
> 
> And don't get too comfortable because you're not one of those billionaires.  
> I'd guess that everyone on this list is in the top 0.002% of the world wealth 
> distribution.
> 
> Brent




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Re: AI and social destabilization

[Brent Meeker]

On 6/20/2017 1:10 PM, John Clark wrote:
Jobs are already being lost because of the improvements in AI and it's 
not just unskilled workers that are in trouble. Don't think that 
because you're so smart a AI could never do your job better than you 
can so the AI revolution can't effect you personally

​;​
in March of this year Blackrock, the world's biggest money manager 
with stock funds worth over $275 billion, announced they would fire 
over 40 employees including some portfolio managers with astronomical 
paychecks. The reason is they decided to let computers running AI 
software pick stocks and manage 11% of their funds instead of humans. 
 89% of Blackston's fund managers still have a job, but if I was one 
of them I might decide I don't need to buy a new Rolls Royce every 
month and it would be wise for me to start saving my money for a rainy 
day. Improving technology has created a huge gap between the rich and 
the poor and the gap isn't just increasing it's accelerating.


In 2010 the richest 388 people had as much wealth as half of the 
entire human race, that's 3.6 Billion people. In 2014 the richest 85 
people did. In 2015 the richest 62 people did. This year the richest 8 
people did. Think of it, the 8 richest Human beings have as much 
wealth as the poorest 3.6 BILLION Human beings! History has pretty 
decisively shown that huge inequality just ain't healthy for any 
society, although history has no examples of inequality of

​the​
 magnitude
​ we have now.​
The improvements in AI that are certain to come
​
in the next few years
​
will only accelerate the acceleration of this socially destabilizing 
trend unless something pushes back, something like government action. 
Health insurance for all might be a good place to start. However 
Donald Trump wants to push for lowering taxes on the rich, getting rid 
of the inheritance tax, and eliminating health care for

​
the
​
24 million
​
poorest people in the country;
​
 but that's pushing in the wrong direction and will only accelerate 
the acceleration of

​the acceleration ​
of the wealth gap.
​
Anybody who is not terrified by this doesn't understand the situation.

One way or another this trend will NOT continue, if government action 
doesn't slow down the widening of the gap something far far more 
unpleasant will.

​ If​
I were one of those 8 hyper rich people I'd be calling for change 
louder than anyone because I like the fact that there is a connection 
between my head and my shoulders and would prefer to keep it that way.

​ Let me be clear,
I'm not talking about "should", I'm not talking about morality, I'm 
just saying

​that ​
when the gap between the rich and the poor gets
​too ​
large social instability occurs
​ and that can be very unhealthy for those at the very top.​



And don't get too comfortable because you're not one of those 
billionaires.  I'd guess that everyone on this list is in the top 0.002% 
of the world wealth distribution.


Brent

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