Re: Electron spin and consciousness
On Fri, Aug 15, 2014 at 2:18 PM, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote: Maybe there is a quantum aspect to consciousness. http://www.pnas.org/content/early/2014/08/06/1404387111.full.pdf+html As near as science can tell there is a quantum aspect to EVERYTHING. The paper says We conclude that there may be a connection between spin, electron currents in cells, and the functioning of the nervous system, well... it would be very surprising indeed if a fundamental property like the electron's spin, a property as important as its charge, was not involved in the operation of nerves. IF the hard drive on your computer is newer than about 2003 (and if it isn't it's time to get a new computer) then it too makes use of the electron's spin and could not hold nearly as much information as it does if it did not. I don't see how electron spin has more to do with consciousness than electron charge. And general anesthesia not only causes you to loose consciousness it also causes you to loose intelligence which is yet another reason I think the two are inextricably linked. John K Clark -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: Electron spin and consciousness
It used to be Tegmark (of all people) and other physicists, years ago, who used to foam at the mouths when scientists outside physics would dare speculate that the human brain might do quantum computations. In fact, the hard asses may be correct, technically, in the sense that the brain is not a quant computer, but as Clark points out, quantum field effects are everywhere in nature, a piece of bird poop, the electrons flow, disgustingly. Specifically, Teg went after Penrose and Hameroff, particularly Hameroff, several years ago. I wonder now with his MUH book is out last Jan, if he had changed his mind? Anyway, the field effects are everywhere and yes, Virginia, they are quantum. -Original Message- From: John Clark johnkcl...@gmail.com To: everything-list everything-list@googlegroups.com Sent: Sun, Aug 17, 2014 12:31 pm Subject: Re: Electron spin and consciousness On Fri, Aug 15, 2014 at 2:18 PM, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote: Maybe there is a quantum aspect to consciousness. http://www.pnas.org/content/early/2014/08/06/1404387111.full.pdf+html As near as science can tell there is a quantum aspect to EVERYTHING. The paper says We conclude that there may be a connection between spin, electron currents in cells, and the functioning of the nervous system, well... it would be very surprising indeed if a fundamental property like the electron's spin, a property as important as its charge, was not involved in the operation of nerves. IF the hard drive on your computer is newer than about 2003 (and if it isn't it's time to get a new computer) then it too makes use of the electron's spin and could not hold nearly as much information as it does if it did not. I don't see how electron spin has more to do with consciousness than electron charge. And general anesthesia not only causes you to loose consciousness it also causes you to loose intelligence which is yet another reason I think the two are inextricably linked. John K Clark -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: Electron spin and consciousness
Max T calculated that the brain doesn't act as a quantum computer because it isn't an environment in which qubits can be kept isolated from the environment long enough to support a quantum calculation. Of course he may be wrong - room temperature quantum computers may be possible, using effects we haven't imagined yet, and the brain may make use of there. But I wouldn't call that foaming at the mouth at people who dare to speculate, I'd call it doing science to the best of his ability. On 18 August 2014 07:42, spudboy100 via Everything List everything-list@googlegroups.com wrote: It used to be Tegmark (of all people) and other physicists, years ago, who used to foam at the mouths when scientists outside physics would dare speculate that the human brain might do quantum computations. In fact, the hard asses may be correct, technically, in the sense that the brain is not a quant computer, but as Clark points out, quantum field effects are everywhere in nature, a piece of bird poop, the electrons flow, disgustingly. Specifically, Teg went after Penrose and Hameroff, particularly Hameroff, several years ago. I wonder now with his MUH book is out last Jan, if he had changed his mind? Anyway, the field effects are everywhere and yes, Virginia, they are quantum. -Original Message- From: John Clark johnkcl...@gmail.com To: everything-list everything-list@googlegroups.com Sent: Sun, Aug 17, 2014 12:31 pm Subject: Re: Electron spin and consciousness On Fri, Aug 15, 2014 at 2:18 PM, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote: Maybe there is a quantum aspect to consciousness. http://www.pnas.org/content/early/2014/08/06/1404387111.full.pdf+html As near as science can tell there is a quantum aspect to EVERYTHING. The paper says We conclude that there may be a connection between spin, electron currents in cells, and the functioning of the nervous system, well... it would be very surprising indeed if a fundamental property like the electron's spin, a property as important as its charge, was not involved in the operation of nerves. IF the hard drive on your computer is newer than about 2003 (and if it isn't it's time to get a new computer) then it too makes use of the electron's spin and could not hold nearly as much information as it does if it did not. I don't see how electron spin has more to do with consciousness than electron charge. And general anesthesia not only causes you to loose consciousness it also causes you to loose intelligence which is yet another reason I think the two are inextricably linked. John K Clark -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: Electron spin and consciousness
It got pretty heated when Teg questioned Hameroff back in the day. Teg was correct in an absolute sense that its far to warm inside the skull to.present a quantum computation. But a quantum computation as a result of a quantum field effect seems to be a different story. How a quant field relates to an actual quantum computer is apparently different. Yet biologists for thqt last decade, have increasingly observed quant processes occuring in, for example, plants. This is where teggers, was too pessimistic, since he was looking for cold superconductivity, as a necessity for quantum computation, but quantum fields are related, but, different then qc. A bigger question I have is can we compute using quant field effect, or, more weirldly, do quantum fields compute, naturally, automatically? Sent from AOL Mobile Mail -Original Message- From: LizR lizj...@gmail.com To: everything-list everything-list@googlegroups.com Sent: Sun, Aug 17, 2014 05:11 PM Subject: Re: Electron spin and consciousness div id=AOLMsgPart_2_a5dce6a5-d7ac-43b9-86a5-04b00b298c7d div class=aolReplacedBody div dir=ltr Max T calculated that the brain doesn't act as a quantum computer because it isn't an environment in which qubits can be kept isolated from the environment long enough to support a quantum calculation. Of course he may be wrong - room temperature quantum computers may be possible, using effects we haven't imagined yet, and the brain may make use of there. But I wouldn't call that foaming at the mouth at people who dare to speculate, I'd call it doing science to the best of his ability. /div div class=aolmail_gmail_extra div class=aolmail_gmail_quote On 18 August 2014 07:42, spudboy100 via Everything List span dir=ltra target=_blank href=mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com;/aa href=mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com;everything-list@googlegroups.com/a/span wrote: blockquote class=aolmail_gmail_quote style=margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex font color=black face=arial It used to be Tegmark (of all people) and other physicists, years ago, who used to foam at the mouths when scientists outside physics would dare speculate that the human brain might do quantum computations. In fact, the hard asses may be correct, technically, in the sense that the brain is not a quant computer, but as Clark points out, quantum field effects are everywhere in nature, a piece of bird poop, the electrons flow, disgustingly. Specifically, Teg went after Penrose and Hameroff, particularly Hameroff, several years ago. I wonder now with his MUH book is out last Jan, if he had changed his mind? Anyway, the field effects are everywhere and yes, Virginia, they are quantum. div class=aolmail_h5 div div style=color:black;font-family:arial,helvetica;font-size:10pt -Original Message- From: John Clark a target=_blank href=mailto:johnkcl...@gmail.com;/aa href=mailto:johnkcl...@gmail.com;johnkcl...@gmail.com/a To: everything-list a target=_blank href=mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com;/aa href=mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com;everything-list@googlegroups.com/a Sent: Sun, Aug 17, 2014 12:31 pm Subject: Re: Electron spin and consciousness div dir=ltr On Fri, Aug 15, 2014 at 2:18 PM, meekerdb span dir=ltra target=_blank href=mailto:meeke...@verizon.net;/aa href=mailto:meeke...@verizon.net;meeke...@verizon.net/a/span wrote: div class=aolmail_gmail_extra div class=aolmail_gmail_quote blockquote class=aolmail_gmail_quote style=margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid Maybe there is a quantum aspect to consciousness. a target=_blank href=http://www.pnas.org/content/early/2014/08/06/1404387111.full.pdf+html;/aa href=http://www.pnas.org/content/; target=_blankhttp://www.pnas.org/content//au/uearly/2014/08/06/1404387111.u/ufull.pdf+html spanfont color=#88 /font/span /blockquote div As near as science can tell there is a quantum aspect to EVERYTHING. The paper says We conclude that there may be a connection between spin, electron currents in cells, and the functioning of the nervous system, well... it would be very surprising indeed if a fundamental property like the electron's spin, a property as important as its charge, was not involved in the operation of nerves. IF the hard drive on your computer is newer than about 2003 (and if it isn't it's time to get a new computer) then it too makes use of the electron's spin and could not hold nearly as much information as it does if it did not. I don't
Re: Electron spin and consciousness
On 18 August 2014 11:49, spudboy100 via Everything List everything-list@googlegroups.com wrote: It got pretty heated when Teg questioned Hameroff back in the day. OK, I didn't know that. Teg was correct in an absolute sense that its far to warm inside the skull to.present a quantum computation. But a quantum computation as a result of a quantum field effect seems to be a different story. How a quant field relates to an actual quantum computer is apparently different. Yet biologists for thqt last decade, have increasingly observed quant processes occuring in, for example, plants. This is where teggers, was too pessimistic, since he was looking for cold superconductivity, as a necessity for quantum computation, but quantum fields are related, but, different then qc. A bigger question I have is can we compute using quant field effect, or, more weirldly, do quantum fields compute, naturally, automatically? Yeah, I was thinking of photosynthesis and suchlike (that's why I heavily qualified my comment with remarks about stuff we haven't discovered yet.) -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
