[Evolution] NFS folder on network attached storage

[John]

Evolution 3.10.4
Ubuntu 14.04

Hello, and many thanks for an excellent open source PIM.

I have been using it for a number of years and find it most convenient.

I have 2 PCs both running Ubuntu, and both connected to my lan, which
also includes a Qnap NAS. 
I just make a symlink from ~/.local/share/evolution to an NFS folder on
my NAS as in:

ln -s /home/john/nas/mydocs/Personal/evolution evolution

I then set up the email accounts on each PC and all seems to work fine.
I seldom open evolution on both computers at the same time.
I also use syncevolution-server to sync to my android devices.

Should i be linking the evolution folders in .cache and in .config to an
NFS folder also? 
I attempted to do that just now, and Evolution opened in first run mode
and asked me to set up an account. When i restored the original
evolution folders in .cache and .config, after a restart all is okay
again.

Regards
John
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[Evolution] NFS folder on network attached storage

[John]

Evolution 3.10.4
Ubuntu 14.04

Hello, and many thanks for an excellent open source PIM.

I have been using it for a number of years and find it most convenient.

I have 2 PCs both running Ubuntu, and both connected to my lan, which
also includes a Qnap NAS. 
I just make a symlink from ~/.local/share/evolution to an NFS folder on
my NAS as in:

ln -s /home/john/nas/mydocs/Personal/evolution evolution

I then set up the email accounts on each PC and all seems to work fine.
I seldom open evolution on both computers at the same time.
I also use syncevolution-server to sync to my android devices.

Should i be linking the evolution folders in .cache and in .config to an
NFS folder also? 
I attempted to do that just now, and Evolution opened in first run mode
and asked me to set up an account. When i restored the original
evolution folders in .cache and .config, after a restart all is okay
again.

Regards
John 
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Re: [Evolution] NFS folder on network attached storage

[Patrick O'Callaghan]

On Wed, 2014-08-20 at 23:36 +0100, John wrote:
> Evolution 3.10.4
> Ubuntu 14.04
> 
> Hello, and many thanks for an excellent open source PIM.
> 
> I have been using it for a number of years and find it most convenient.
> 
> I have 2 PCs both running Ubuntu, and both connected to my lan, which
> also includes a Qnap NAS. 
> I just make a symlink from ~/.local/share/evolution to an NFS folder on
> my NAS as in:
> 
> ln -s /home/john/nas/mydocs/Personal/evolution evolution
> 
> I then set up the email accounts on each PC and all seems to work fine.
> I seldom open evolution on both computers at the same time.
> I also use syncevolution-server to sync to my android devices.
> 
> Should i be linking the evolution folders in .cache and in .config to an
> NFS folder also? 
> I attempted to do that just now, and Evolution opened in first run mode
> and asked me to set up an account. When i restored the original
> evolution folders in .cache and .config, after a restart all is okay
> again.

You don't say what kind of accounts you're talking about, but I have to
say this sounds like a bad idea at least for POP, though it would take a
careful analysis to say exactly why. Evo is not designed to be used this
way and won't take any precautions to ensure the data of one instance is
not overwritten by a second instance.

If you just want to access the same accounts from several machines, the
best way is to use IMAP. Even then you won't get absolute consistency in
every scenario (e.g. a message that is Seen in one instance may still be
Unseen in another, depending on the setup), but at least you won't lose
anything.

poc

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Re: [Evolution] NFS folder on network attached storage

[John]

Thanks Patrick,

Sorry, you are quite correct in that i use POP mainly.

Well, i will continue the way i have had it for the last few years, and
just symlink the .local/share/evolution folder, as it seems to work with
few problems over the NFS, and allows me to keep the accounts, calendar
etc  in sync between the pcs. Its not mission critical stuff, and if it
all goes horribly wrong i have made  occasional backups!

Is there any info as to what the different folders are for?
Documentation only seems to show their location.

Regards
John
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Re: [Evolution] NFS folder on network attached storage

[Pete Biggs]

> 
> Well, i will continue the way i have had it for the last few years,
> and just symlink the .local/share/evolution folder, as it seems to
> work with few problems over the NFS, and allows me to keep the
> accounts, calendar etc  in sync between the pcs. Its not mission
> critical stuff, and if it all goes horribly wrong i have made
> occasional backups!

It may appear to work now, but it quite possibly won't in the future.
Evo is not designed to work as a shared data store (i.e. two versions of
Evo using the same stored data).  I think that it is purely coincidental
that in your usage pattern things haven't broken too severely.

It has been said many times on this list that it is unwise to muck about
with Evo's internal private storage locations because something will
break horribly if you do.

Also, in case anyone is reading this thread in the archives, I think it
is important that it be stated explicitly that you will break Evolution
if you try to do this.

If you want to share data between two versions of Evolution, then use
the correct tools for doing so - IMAP, LDAP and CalDAV on a server
somewhere.  It is the only reliable way of doing it.

P.

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Re: [Evolution] NFS folder on network attached storage

[Adam Tauno Williams]

On Mon, 2014-08-25 at 13:28 +0100, Pete Biggs wrote: 
> > Well, i will continue the way i have had it for the last few years,
> > and just symlink the .local/share/evolution folder, as it seems to
> > work with few problems over the NFS, and allows me to keep the
> > accounts, calendar etc  in sync between the pcs. Its not mission
> > critical stuff, and if it all goes horribly wrong i have made
> > occasional backups!
> It may appear to work now,

+1  Emphasis on "appear" and "now".

> It has been said many times on this list that it is unwise to muck about
> with Evo's internal private storage locations because something will
> break horribly if you do.

Yes, but this is just a message that won't "stick" for some people.
There is something almost pathological about a segment of the LINUX user
community that they must flail about with settings and configuration...
eventually they storm off and write a BLOG post about how everything is
so unstable, the software is broken, etc...  sigh.

> Also, in case anyone is reading this thread in the archives, I think it
> is important that it be stated explicitly that you will break Evolution
> if you try to do this.
> If you want to share data between two versions of Evolution, then use
> the correct tools for doing so - IMAP, LDAP and CalDAV on a server
> somewhere.  It is the only reliable way of doing it.

Yes, the way it was designed to work, as a client of services.

-- 
Adam Tauno Williams  GPG D95ED383
Systems Administrator, Python Developer, LPI / NCLA

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Re: [Evolution] NFS folder on network attached storage

[John]

@adam

Woah there, snide comments about members being pathologic, is hardly going 
to help anyone.
I came to this list looking for advice, which i received and if you noticed 
my most recent reply to Pete's post a number of hours ago, i took on board.
Being kicked by a self opinionated prig is not what i came here for. I 
continually promote open source software, especially for it's stability and 
it's (usually) helpful and friendly community. If something goes wrong i 
won't be running to you for advice, so calm down, and have another coffee.
Looking through your recent posts i see a thread of aggressive behaviour. 
You should probably find a more suitable outlet for it. No need to rant 
because others don't have your knowledge or ability.


John


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Re: [Evolution] NFS folder on network attached storage

[Zan Lynx]

On 08/25/2014 01:31 PM, Adam Tauno Williams wrote:
>> It has been said many times on this list that it is unwise to muck about
>> > with Evo's internal private storage locations because something will
>> > break horribly if you do.
> Yes, but this is just a message that won't "stick" for some people.
> There is something almost pathological about a segment of the LINUX user
> community that they must flail about with settings and configuration...
> eventually they storm off and write a BLOG post about how everything is
> so unstable, the software is broken, etc...  sigh.
>

If I can't back up entire home directories and restore a SINGLE
APPLICATION such as Evolution using rsync, then Evolution is horribly
broken.

If I can't back up from version 2 and restore to version 3.X and have it
convert forward CORRECTLY then Evolution is also horribly broken.

If I have to retype BY HAND every single vfolder / search folder /
filter definition instead of using file sync between systems Evolution
is also horribly broken.

Forcing us to do it any other way is something EVEN MICROSOFT learned
not to do. Look at MSDN. I found three pages with all the information
you need to handle Outlook PST files or Exchange data stores. These days
you can script nearly anything you want to do with a Microsoft product
in Powershell.

If we can't "muck about" with the configuration and data files then
Evolution has become WORSE than Microsoft. That really isn't anything to
be proud of.

Now actually, I recall finding some decent documentation on Evolution
data files and configuration at one point. So instead of telling people
not to muck with it, just give them a link to what they need for doing
it correctly.

The following link is all I can find at the moment. The
developer.gnome.org search functions aren't all that helpful.

https://help.gnome.org/users/evolution/3.12/data-storage.html.en


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Re: [Evolution] NFS folder on network attached storage

[Pete Biggs]

> 
> Woah there, snide comments about members being pathologic, is hardly going 
> to help anyone.

That's not what Adam said.

> I came to this list looking for advice, which i received and if you noticed 
> my most recent reply to Pete's post a number of hours ago, i took on board.

Nothing has appeared on the list from you in reply to my message.

> Being kicked by a self opinionated prig is not what i came here for. 

You seem to have taken what Adam said very personally - I don't read it
like that.  

P.

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Re: [Evolution] NFS folder on network attached storage]

[John]

 Forwarded Message 

> From: John 
> To: evolution-list@gnome.org
> Subject: Re: [Evolution] NFS folder on network attached storage
> Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2014 16:26:48 +0100
> 
> Ok Pete,
> 
> Duly noted, i will have to move over to imap and get a caldav server
> 
> Thanks
> John

Well, its probably my bad, but Evo reported that the message was sent, i
saw the progress bar reach 100%.
Apologies for flaring up, but as Zan said, "instead of telling people
not to muck with it, just give them a link to what they need for doing
it correctly." 
A lot of us are just humble users looking for a bit of information, not
on some mission to break stuff and then blame the developers for it.
I am most pleased and thankful for Evolution, Linux and open source
generally, but i give and expect courtesy when communicating with
others, and won't tolerate bullying.

John
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Re: [Evolution] NFS folder on network attached storage

[Pete Biggs]

> >> It has been said many times on this list that it is unwise to muck about
> >> > with Evo's internal private storage locations because something will
> >> > break horribly if you do.
> > Yes, but this is just a message that won't "stick" for some people.
> > There is something almost pathological about a segment of the LINUX user
> > community that they must flail about with settings and configuration...
> > eventually they storm off and write a BLOG post about how everything is
> > so unstable, the software is broken, etc...  sigh.
> >
> 
> If I can't back up entire home directories and restore a SINGLE
> APPLICATION such as Evolution using rsync, then Evolution is horribly
> broken.

You can.  What I suspect you are grouching about is not being able to
rsync a single directory to do what you want.  That's not an Evo issue,
it's a Gnome file structure thing.

> 
> If I can't back up from version 2 and restore to version 3.X and have it
> convert forward CORRECTLY then Evolution is also horribly broken.

You can.  It should work.

> 
> If I have to retype BY HAND every single vfolder / search folder /
> filter definition instead of using file sync between systems Evolution
> is also horribly broken.

That's a different issue and is because Evo uses UUIDs for account
information and there is no guarantee UUIDs will be the same between
systems (unless the config files are duplicated).  If there is no way of
recreating the link between UUIDs and accounts, then there is no
automated way of recreating the filters, vfolders, searches etc.

I did see a while ago that UUIDs were going to be removed and replaced
with account names, which should be more portable.  I don't know if it
happened (or is happening). 

> 
> Forcing us to do it any other way is something EVEN MICROSOFT learned
> not to do. Look at MSDN. I found three pages with all the information
> you need to handle Outlook PST files or Exchange data stores.

Is that you volunteering to write the documentation pages ...

Before you start comparing OpenSource programs with Microsoft, I suggest
you investigate the relative size and budgets of the development teams
of, say, Outlook and Evolution.

>  These days
> you can script nearly anything you want to do with a Microsoft product
> in Powershell.

That's very nice for people who use Microsoft products then.

> 
> If we can't "muck about" with the configuration and data files then
> Evolution has become WORSE than Microsoft. That really isn't anything to
> be proud of.

Why "WORSE than Microsoft" when in the previous paragraph you've been
extolling the virtues of Microsoft products.  

Look, you can muck about with things as much as you want - but if you do
so, then things may break because Evolution assumes that it knows the
state of it's own private storage areas - an assumption that is
necessary for the sake of speed.  If you know what you are doing, then
it is probably OK, but it is not something that can be recommended.

If you have problems because you have done something unusual (like
sharing the data store between two versions of Evo), then if it doesn't
work, it's not because Evolution is "horribly broken", it's because it's
not designed to work like that.  If you want that functionality, then
submit an enhancement request, or, even better, write the enhancement
yourself and submit it for inclusion.

> 
> Now actually, I recall finding some decent documentation on Evolution
> data files and configuration at one point. So instead of telling people
> not to muck with it, just give them a link to what they need for doing
> it correctly.
> 
> The following link is all I can find at the moment. The
> developer.gnome.org search functions aren't all that helpful.
> 
> https://help.gnome.org/users/evolution/3.12/data-storage.html.en

Documentation is always a problem - with a limited dev team their time
is always at a premium, so what would you want them to do?  Would it be
acceptable to stop the development and bug fixes for, say, a release
cycle in order to document the data file structure?  Or would you prefer
them to continue to make Evolution better at the expense of detailed
documentation that only a few people will ever be interested in?

Of course it would be way better to have everything written down like
Microsoft does, but things in the Open Source world aren't always ideal
like that.

P.



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Re: [Evolution] NFS folder on network attached storage

[Matthew Barnes]

On Mon, 2014-08-25 at 23:02 +0100, Pete Biggs wrote:
> I did see a while ago that UUIDs were going to be removed and replaced
> with account names, which should be more portable.  I don't know if it
> happened (or is happening). 

I'm guessing this was in reference to keyring entry descriptions?

The keyring entries in Seahorse used to only display the account UUID
(for the sake of staying accurate across renames), but that wasn't very
useful for humans so the keyring entries now display account names and
are automatically kept up-to-date by a background process.

Stable and unique account identifiers are critical to E-D-S.  They're
not going anywhere.

Matthew Barnes

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Re: [Evolution] NFS folder on network attached storage

[Andre Klapper]

On Mon, 2014-08-25 at 14:29 -0600, Zan Lynx wrote:
> Now actually, I recall finding some decent documentation on Evolution
> data files and configuration at one point. So instead of telling people
> not to muck with it, just give them a link to what they need for doing
> it correctly.
> 
> The following link is all I can find at the moment. The
> developer.gnome.org search functions aren't all that helpful.
> 
> https://help.gnome.org/users/evolution/3.12/data-storage.html.en

>From my point of view, stuff that covers highly technical aspects which
allow you to easily shoot yourself in the foot if you don't know exactly
what you're doing should not be part of **user** documentation.
To write patches: Stuff is in the /help/C/ subfolder in Mallard format;
see https://wiki.gnome.org/Git/Developers for more information.

andre
-- 
Andre Klapper  |  ak...@gmx.net
http://blogs.gnome.org/aklapper/

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Re: [Evolution] NFS folder on network attached storage

[John]

Ok Pete,

Duly noted, i will have to move over to imap and get a caldav server

Thanks
John
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