[Evolution] Receiving message count is wrong

[Doug Hutcheson]

Evolution 3.24.3 (3.24.3-1.fc26) 

This annoyance has been with me for a long time, but is so trivial I
have not bothered with it before. It is irritating, though, and it is
about time I fixed it!

When Evo is downloading messages, a 'count down' appears in the left
side of the status bar, to indicate how many messages remain to be
downloaded. On my system, this has been wrong for years. The download
completes when the counter is still showing 19 or 20.

Is there a configuration file or somewhere this number is stored, so I
can reset it?

Cheers,
Doug___
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Re: [Evolution] Receiving message count is wrong

[Ralf Mardorf]

On Wed, 2017-07-19 at 11:52 +1000, Doug Hutcheson wrote:
> Evolution 3.24.3
> 
> When Evo is downloading messages, a 'count down' appears in the left
> side of the status bar, to indicate how many messages remain to be
> downloaded. On my system, this has been wrong for years. The download
> completes when the counter is still showing 19 or 20.

Hi,

if you are using POP accounts and leave messages on the server for e.g.
one day, some MUAs shows that e.g. 100 messages are on the server, but
it only downloads the 19 or 20 messages, that were not already
downloaded before. I don't know, if this is happening when using
Evolution, too, since I don't care about it. However, I never noticed
any MUA (including Evolution) downloading 100 mails of a POP account and
stopping to count after 19 or 20. Are you using IMAP accounts? Maybe the
issue is fixed for the latest stable release 3.24.4? I'm on 3.24.4, but
actually I'm using POP accounts, so I can't say anything about IMAP.

Regards,
Ralf

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Re: [Evolution] Receiving message count is wrong

[Ralf Mardorf]

On Wed, 19 Jul 2017 06:53:54 +0200, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
>> When Evo is downloading messages, a 'count down' appears in the left
>> side of the status bar, to indicate how many messages remain to be
>> downloaded.

Again, this could be one possibility, I don't know if Evolution has got
a setting to chose it that or another way. But as already pointed out,
some MUAs do _not_ show how many mails remain to be downloaded, they
show how many mails are on the server, even those who were already
downloaded before. This isn't a bug, it's a feature.

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Re: [Evolution] Receiving message count is wrong

[Ralf Mardorf]

> On Wed, 19 Jul 2017 06:53:54 +0200, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
Sorry, On Wed, 2017-07-19 at 11:52 +1000, Doug Hutcheson wrote:

> > > When Evo is downloading messages, a 'count down' appears in the left
> > > side of the status bar, to indicate how many messages remain to be
> > > downloaded.

Ralf replied ;):

> Again, this could be one possibility, I don't know if Evolution has got
> a setting to chose it that or another way. But as already pointed out,
> some MUAs do _not_ show how many mails remain to be downloaded, they
> show how many mails are on the server, even those who were already
> downloaded before. This isn't a bug, it's a feature.

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Re: [Evolution] Receiving message count is wrong

[Doug Hutcheson]

Thanks for replying Ralf.
I use gmail as my mail server and access it using POP (inward) and IMAP
(outward). As at this moment, I have 146 messages on the server, as I
have not cleaned it up for a few days, but the countdown always stops
at 19 or 20 (it's hard to tell because it clears so quickly at the
end). It must be something that is remembered either on the server or
locally, but I can't see how it could be the server because of the
number of messages discussed above.
I'm stumped!
Cheers,Doug
On Wed, 2017-07-19 at 07:14 +0200, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
> > On Wed, 19 Jul 2017 06:53:54 +0200, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
> 
> Sorry, On Wed, 2017-07-19 at 11:52 +1000, Doug Hutcheson wrote:
> 
> > > > When Evo is downloading messages, a 'count down' appears in the
> > > > left
> > > > side of the status bar, to indicate how many messages remain to
> > > > be
> > > > downloaded.
> 
> Ralf replied ;):
> 
> > Again, this could be one possibility, I don't know if Evolution has
> > got
> > a setting to chose it that or another way. But as already pointed
> > out,
> > some MUAs do _not_ show how many mails remain to be downloaded,
> > they
> > show how many mails are on the server, even those who were already
> > downloaded before. This isn't a bug, it's a feature.
> 
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Re: [Evolution] Receiving message count is wrong

[Ralf Mardorf]

On Wed, 2017-07-19 at 15:32 +1000, Doug Hutcheson wrote:
> I use gmail as my mail server and access it using POP (inward) and
> IMAP (outward).

Hi,

if you are using POP to receive messages, I suspect you are using SMPT
to send messages.

Btw. taking a brief look, I don't see any option to see any mail number
in the status bar. I only see numbers in a pop up dialog box, but it's
to fast to say what actually is displayed.

> As at this moment, I have 146 messages on the server, as I have not
> cleaned it up for a few days, but the countdown always stops at 19 or
> 20 (it's hard to tell because it clears so quickly at the end).

Yes, there could be 146 mails on the server and you probably already
downloaded 126, so there are only 20 mails to download.

You expect that the first number shows the amount of mails that will get
downloaded and the other displays the countdown, but actually the first
number might show the mails on the server, as e.g. Claws does.

Doing a very short research I couldn't find any information that there
are two number, one showing the amount of mails that need to get
downloaded and another showing a countdown.

Maybe one number just shows how many mails are still on the server, IOW
the amount of mails that were already downloaded + the mails that were
not downloaded.

> It must be something that is remembered either on the server or
> locally, but I can't see how it could be the server because of the
> number of messages discussed above.

Sure the MUA, in this case Evolution, remembers what mails already were
downloaded, to avoid to download them as duplicates.

You could automatically delete mails from the server by

Edit > Preferences > Mail accounts > select an account and double-click >
Receiving options > Uncheck "Leave messages on server"

but then they are deleted on the server and no other MUA could download
them, too. However, in this case downloading mails is faster, because
the check, if mails were already downloaded is faster and the number of
mails on the server is equal to the number that will be downloaded, so
you would get of your "issue".

Regards,
Ralf

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Re: [Evolution] Receiving message count is wrong

[Ralf Mardorf]

On Wed, 2017-07-19 at 09:34 +0200, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
> However, in this case downloading mails is faster, because
> the check, if mails were already downloaded is faster and the number of
> mails on the server is equal to the number that will be downloaded, so
> you would get of your "issue".
   ^rid

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Re: [Evolution] Receiving message count is wrong

[Ralf Mardorf]

Now the download was slower and I could see the numbers, here it indeed
seems to show the amount of mails that will get downloaded and not the
amount of mails that are still on the server. IIRC for Claws it does
show the amount of mails on the server. However, on my machine Evolution
seems to show what you expect to see and I delete mails after one day
from the server, I do not delete them immediately.

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Re: [Evolution] Receiving message count is wrong

[Pete Biggs]

> I use gmail as my mail server and access it using POP (inward) and
> IMAP (outward). As at this moment, I have 146 messages on the server,
> as I have not cleaned it up for a few days, but the countdown always
> stops at 19 or 20 (it's hard to tell because it clears so quickly at
> the end). It must be something that is remembered either on the
> server or locally, but I can't see how it could be the server because
> of the number of messages discussed above.
> 

If you turn on POP debugging output then you'll be able to see exactly
what the chatter is between Evo and the server. That will hopefully
give you more detailed information on what the message counts really
are - for instance if the server says there's 30 messages to download
but the status bar says 40, then it's an Evo issue; if the servers says
there's 30, but stops after 10 then it's a server problem.

P.
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Re: [Evolution] Receiving message count is wrong

[Ralf Mardorf]

On Wed, 2017-07-19 at 09:06 +0100, Pete Biggs wrote:
> If you turn on POP debugging output then you'll be able to see exactly
> what the chatter is between Evo and the server.

Hi,

so Doug needs to close Evolution, open a terminal and e.g. run

  cd /tmp/

and after that

  CAMEL_DEBUG=pop3 evolution >& logfile

IIUC https://wiki.gnome.org/Apps/Evolution/Debugging#POP3 ?!

There at least is a very long log file when I tested it ;).

[rocketmouse@archlinux ~]$ cd /tmp/
[rocketmouse@archlinux tmp]$ CAMEL_DEBUG=pop3 evolution >& logfile 
[rocketmouse@archlinux tmp]$ cat logfile
[snip]

Perhaps Doug should use https://pastebin.com/ or something similar and
post a link to the log file, if he needs help with the log.

Regards,
Ralf

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Re: [Evolution] Receiving message count is wrong

[Patrick O'Callaghan]

On Wed, 2017-07-19 at 15:32 +1000, Doug Hutcheson wrote:
> I use gmail as my mail server and access it using POP (inward) and IMAP
> (outward).

[Please don't top-post]

There is no such thing as IMAP "outward". Mail is sent using SMTP. You
can "post" a message to an IMAP server folder but I suspect that isn't
what you mean. The messages will just sit there, they won't be sent
anywhere, though of course some servers (not including Gmail) allow
IMAP folders to be shared.

poc
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Re: [Evolution] Receiving message count is wrong

[Ángel]

On 2017-07-19 at 09:48 +0200, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
> Now the download was slower and I could see the numbers, here it indeed
> seems to show the amount of mails that will get downloaded and not the
> amount of mails that are still on the server. IIRC for Claws it does
> show the amount of mails on the server. However, on my machine Evolution
> seems to show what you expect to see and I delete mails after one day
> from the server, I do not delete them immediately.

Note that gmail does some funny things with its POP implementation. If
you keep emails on server, they are listed there... for some time. So
even if you have 1000 messages, it maybe shows about 20 there. Probably
it is showing the emails read for first time less than a few days ago.

Cheers

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Re: [Evolution] Receiving message count is wrong

[Doug Hutcheson]

On Wed, 2017-07-19 at 09:37 +0200, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
> On Wed, 2017-07-19 at 09:34 +0200, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
> > However, in this case downloading mails is faster, because
> > the check, if mails were already downloaded is faster and the
> > number of
> > mails on the server is equal to the number that will be downloaded,
> > so
> > you would get of your "issue".
> 
>^rid
> 
Wow! So many helpful replies when I logged on this morning. Thanks to
Patrick O'Callaghan, Pete Biggs, Ralf Mardorf and Angel.

Firstly, I apologise for top posting earlier - I forgot the convention.

I will run Evo in debug mode as suggested and see if I can identify
where the count is being set.

Thanks for confirming there is nowhere the counter is being stored, as
it means I don't have to keep looking for it.

I will take note of all the advice and let you know if I solve the
problem.

Kind regards,
Doug Hutcheson___
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Re: [Evolution] Receiving message count is wrong

[Doug Hutcheson]

On Wed, 2017-07-19 at 10:50 +0200, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
> On Wed, 2017-07-19 at 09:06 +0100, Pete Biggs wrote:
> > If you turn on POP debugging output then you'll be able to see
> > exactly
> > what the chatter is between Evo and the server.
> 
> Hi,
> 
> so Doug needs to close Evolution, open a terminal and e.g. run
> 
>   cd /tmp/
> 
> and after that
> 
>   CAMEL_DEBUG=pop3 evolution >& logfile
> 
> IIUC https://wiki.gnome.org/Apps/Evolution/Debugging#POP3 ?!
> 
> There at least is a very long log file when I tested it ;).
> 
> [rocketmouse@archlinux ~]$ cd /tmp/
> [rocketmouse@archlinux tmp]$ CAMEL_DEBUG=pop3 evolution >& logfile 
> [rocketmouse@archlinux tmp]$ cat logfile
> [snip]
> 
> Perhaps Doug should use https://pastebin.com/ or something similar
> and
> post a link to the log file, if he needs help with the log.
> 
> Regards,
> Ralf
> 
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Thanks Ralf.

The logfile is at https://pastebin.com/JEgpZMdt

I am suspicious about the group of 20 lines commencing with
POP3_STREAM_LINE (25): '1 GmailId136c502f1e55e3a8', because the number
of lines involved matches the number at which the count-down stops. Can
you shed any more light upon it?.

Kind regards,
Doug___
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Re: [Evolution] Receiving message count is wrong

[Milan Crha]

On Thu, 2017-07-20 at 00:25 +0200, Ángel wrote:
> Note that gmail does some funny things with its POP implementation.
> If you keep emails on server, they are listed there... for some time.
> So even if you have 1000 messages, it maybe shows about 20 there.
> Probably it is showing the emails read for first time less than a few
> days ago.

Hi,
there's a setting for it, like when you open https://mail.google.com ,
then click the gear button, there Preferences, there the tab with
POP/IMAP settings. You can choose what the server shows to the client,
both with POP and IMAP.
Bye,
Milan
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Re: [Evolution] Receiving message count is wrong

[Milan Crha]

On Thu, 2017-07-20 at 13:09 +1000, Doug Hutcheson wrote:
> Can you shed any more light upon it?.

Hi,
if I read the log properly, then it basically shows that there had been
18 messages reported by the server, then, the next time, two new
messages had been recognized and downloaded. The GUI shows something
like "Retrieving POP message NNN" in the status bar, where the NNN is
some sort of internal ID, similar to the number IMAP shows, or even
EWS, which has pretty long base64-like IDs. This ID is not meant as a
counter of messages to be downloaded, and it never was.

Is that what confused you, or I misunderstood your claim?
Bye,
Milan
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Re: [Evolution] Receiving message count is wrong

[Doug Hutcheson]

On Thu, 2017-07-20 at 09:36 +0200, Milan Crha wrote:
> On Thu, 2017-07-20 at 00:25 +0200, Ángel wrote:
> > Note that gmail does some funny things with its POP implementation.
> > If you keep emails on server, they are listed there... for some
> > time.
> > So even if you have 1000 messages, it maybe shows about 20 there.
> > Probably it is showing the emails read for first time less than a
> > few
> > days ago.
> 
>   Hi,
> there's a setting for it, like when you open https://mail.google.com
> ,
> then click the gear button, there Preferences, there the tab with
> POP/IMAP settings. You can choose what the server shows to the
> client,
> both with POP and IMAP.
>   Bye,
>   Milan
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Hi Milan.

I could not understand the log, so I am grateful to you for
investigating. I have tweaked my Gmail settings and will see if it
makes any difference.

I have learnt a lot about Evo during this exercise - thank you to all
who responded.

Kind regards,
Doug___
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Re: [Evolution] Receiving message count is wrong

[Doug Hutcheson]

On Thu, 2017-07-20 at 09:36 +0200, Milan Crha wrote:
> On Thu, 2017-07-20 at 00:25 +0200, Ángel wrote:
> > Note that gmail does some funny things with its POP implementation.
> > If you keep emails on server, they are listed there... for some
> > time.
> > So even if you have 1000 messages, it maybe shows about 20 there.
> > Probably it is showing the emails read for first time less than a
> > few
> > days ago.
> 
>   Hi,
> there's a setting for it, like when you open https://mail.google.com
> ,
> then click the gear button, there Preferences, there the tab with
> POP/IMAP settings. You can choose what the server shows to the
> client,
> both with POP and IMAP.
>   Bye,
>   Milan
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> 

Further to Milan's help, I set Gmail to only allow POP for 'mail received from 
now on' or words to that effect, and that has solved my problem. Many thanks to 
all who responded.
Kind regards,
Doug___
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Re: [Evolution] Receiving message count is wrong

[Adam Tauno Williams]

On Wed, 2017-07-19 at 06:53 +0200, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
> if you are using POP accounts and leave messages on the server for
> e.g. one day, some MUAs shows that e.g. 100 messages are on the
> server, but it only downloads the 19 or 20 messages, that were not
> already downloaded before. 

I've always assumed this was a 'paging' thing.

> stopping to count after 19 or 20. Are you using IMAP accounts? 

I do not recall seeing it using IMAP (which I use all day every day),
or at least not with IMAPx.


-- 
Adam Tauno Williams  GPG D95ED383
OpenGroupware Developer 
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Re: [Evolution] Receiving message count is wrong

[Patrick O'Callaghan]

On Thu, 2017-07-20 at 07:17 -0400, Adam Tauno Williams wrote:
> On Wed, 2017-07-19 at 06:53 +0200, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
> > if you are using POP accounts and leave messages on the server for
> > e.g. one day, some MUAs shows that e.g. 100 messages are on the
> > server, but it only downloads the 19 or 20 messages, that were not
> > already downloaded before. 
> 
> I've always assumed this was a 'paging' thing.
> 
> > stopping to count after 19 or 20. Are you using IMAP accounts? 
> 
> I do not recall seeing it using IMAP (which I use all day every day),
> or at least not with IMAPx.

Me neither (also using IMAPx with Gmail).

poc
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