Re: [Evolution] Newbie-questions

[Patrick O'Callaghan]

On Fri, 2016-10-28 at 10:06 +0100, James Freer wrote:
> Thanks folks - I'll use the provided backup feature. The way Evolution
> stores data is fine but i was unsure. It's similar to TB. Sylpheed
> makes life easy as it stores mailboxes for each email address in a
> named directory but Sypheed doesn't cope with reading html so well
> which is why I have changed to Evolution.

The "backup" in Evolution is just a tar file. It copies all of your
data every time. That's why it's not suitable for daily backups.

> One thing I have noticed is that whilst in evolution if I click on a
> link it invokes the Firefox browser rather than Chromium (set as
> default). There's a setting somewhere that i have missed.

Not an Evolution problem. Consult your desktop documentation. You might
find it useful to run xdg-settings (from the command line) to see how
you're set up.

poc
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Re: [Evolution] Newbie-questions

[James Freer]

On 24 October 2016 at 20:22, Ralf Mardorf  wrote:
> On Mon, 2016-10-24 at 10:17 -0700, Zan Lynx wrote:
>> If Evolution hasn't yet, just sit down and document all of the file
>> locations and DConf / GSettings keys.
>
> As already pointed out, push F1 and Ctrl+F, then search for "back" and
> you'll get
>
> "Back up and restore"
>
> It mentions that you anyway need to backup bogofilter and spamassasin
> directories separately, which make sense, since they are shared by
> several apps. I for example use bogofilter with Claws and Evolution.
>
> On the bottom there is a link to
>
> "Data storage locations
> This is only interesting for advanced users who want to debug problems.
> Evolution 3.6 and later stores its data according to the XDG Base
> Directory Specification. By default this means:
> The user's data files
> $HOME/.local/share/evolution
> Various configuration and state files
> $HOME/.config/evolution
> Account settings
> $HOME/.config/evolution/sources
> Disposable data caches
> $HOME/.cache/evolution
> Configuration settings in GSettings
> $HOME/.config/dconf"
>
> A backup of .cache isn't needed.
>
> I'm neither a fan of dconf, nor do I use gesettings, but it has got a
> help option and a man page, if you really want to 'get' the values.
>
> [rocketmouse@archlinux ~]$ gsettings list-schemas | grep evolution
> org.gnome.evolution.shell
> org.gnome.evolution.plugin.face-picture
> [snip]
> org.gnome.evolution.mail
> [snip]
> [rocketmouse@archlinux ~]$ gsettings list-keys org.gnome.evolution.mail
> composer-magic-smileys
> composer-use-outbox
> [snip]
> [rocketmouse@archlinux ~]$ gsettings get org.gnome.evolution.mail
> composer-magic-smileys
> false
>
> My backup strategy is to backup /home completely, using cp -pr or cp -a,
> resp. tar or tar -xattrs. I don't know if attributes are really
> important, restoring from backups that didn't care for attributes never
> caused an issue for me. Since I'm using a rolling release I don't have
> to mess about distro releases. You could use rsync or what ever else,
> but IMO it makes sense to copy the complete home directory.
>
> Regards,
> Ralf

Thanks folks - I'll use the provided backup feature. The way Evolution
stores data is fine but i was unsure. It's similar to TB. Sylpheed
makes life easy as it stores mailboxes for each email address in a
named directory but Sypheed doesn't cope with reading html so well
which is why I have changed to Evolution.

One thing I have noticed is that whilst in evolution if I click on a
link it invokes the Firefox browser rather than Chromium (set as
default). There's a setting somewhere that i have missed.

james
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Re: [Evolution] Newbie-questions

[Ralf Mardorf]

On Mon, 2016-10-24 at 10:17 -0700, Zan Lynx wrote:
> If Evolution hasn't yet, just sit down and document all of the file
> locations and DConf / GSettings keys.

As already pointed out, push F1 and Ctrl+F, then search for "back" and
you'll get

"Back up and restore"

It mentions that you anyway need to backup bogofilter and spamassasin
directories separately, which make sense, since they are shared by
several apps. I for example use bogofilter with Claws and Evolution.

On the bottom there is a link to

"Data storage locations
This is only interesting for advanced users who want to debug problems.
Evolution 3.6 and later stores its data according to the XDG Base
Directory Specification. By default this means:
The user's data files
$HOME/.local/share/evolution
Various configuration and state files
$HOME/.config/evolution
Account settings
$HOME/.config/evolution/sources
Disposable data caches
$HOME/.cache/evolution
Configuration settings in GSettings
$HOME/.config/dconf"

A backup of .cache isn't needed.

I'm neither a fan of dconf, nor do I use gesettings, but it has got a
help option and a man page, if you really want to 'get' the values.

[rocketmouse@archlinux ~]$ gsettings list-schemas | grep evolution
org.gnome.evolution.shell
org.gnome.evolution.plugin.face-picture
[snip]
org.gnome.evolution.mail
[snip]
[rocketmouse@archlinux ~]$ gsettings list-keys org.gnome.evolution.mail
composer-magic-smileys
composer-use-outbox
[snip]
[rocketmouse@archlinux ~]$ gsettings get org.gnome.evolution.mail
composer-magic-smileys
false

My backup strategy is to backup /home completely, using cp -pr or cp -a,
resp. tar or tar -xattrs. I don't know if attributes are really
important, restoring from backups that didn't care for attributes never
caused an issue for me. Since I'm using a rolling release I don't have
to mess about distro releases. You could use rsync or what ever else,
but IMO it makes sense to copy the complete home directory.

Regards,
Ralf

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Re: [Evolution] Newbie-questions

[Milan Crha]

On Mon, 2016-10-24 at 10:17 -0700, Zan Lynx wrote:
> Because _nobody does that_. None of the distro personal backup tools
> do it. Absolutely none of the system-level backup tools do it. What,
> would it log into each user account, open Evolution and use File:
> Backup/Restore? Nope.

Hi,
I do not think it's "nobody does that", really.

The logging in as a user is good to preserver file/directory attributes
in the backup file. Otherwise you can run it with properly modified XDG
variables and you'll get there (modulo file/directory
attributes/permissions).

As the evolution itself should be off when doing the backup, the menu
runs an external tool, which is called with some arguments:
   /usr/libexec/evolution/evolution-backup
Actual path can differ, depending on the distribution.

> If Evolution hasn't yet, just sit down and document all of the file
> locations and DConf / GSettings keys.
>
> I'm fairly sure that's already been done but I haven't looked at the
> docs lately.

Yes, you are right.
https://help.gnome.org/users/evolution/stable/data-storage.html.en

> And as I recall Evolution's Backup/Restore isn't even useful as an
> upgrade strategy since no one guarantees a newer version can load an
> older backup file.

This is not accurate. Evolution itself, but also evolution-data-server
services, has a migration facility from older versions to newer (doing
the opposite (aka migrate for downgrade) is nearly impossible,
definitely in the general case). It's true that there had been done a
cut in the migration, I do not recall precisely, I think one cannot
update in pre-3.0 versions, but otherwise the code is not removed. That
way you can for example update/restore backups which still use GConf,
and it was removed several versions back.

The thing is that the backup/restore works like system updates. It
backups/restores the user's home directory content to the state in that
particular version, thus if anything goes wrong, one is still able to
go back. There is not much difference between restoring from a backup
and updating the system for the evolution.

In any case, nobody said that there is not a better tool for
backup/restore. This is one offered directly in the evolution, hoping
to be useful. If you do not find it useful, then that's okay. Users
have always an option, which is good.
Bye,
Milan
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Re: [Evolution] Newbie-questions

[Zan Lynx]

On 10/24/2016 04:52 AM, Adam Tauno Williams wrote:
> There is a backup/restore feature built into Evolution - File: backup /
> restore.  Use that.  Where Evolution does / does-not store information
> is not something a user should need to know and may change between
> versions.

Every time you recommend this I think, "Are you serious?"

Because _nobody does that_. None of the distro personal backup tools do
it. Absolutely none of the system-level backup tools do it. What, would
it log into each user account, open Evolution and use File:
Backup/Restore? Nope.

If Evolution hasn't yet, just sit down and document all of the file
locations and DConf / GSettings keys.

I'm fairly sure that's already been done but I haven't looked at the
docs lately.

And as I recall Evolution's Backup/Restore isn't even useful as an
upgrade strategy since no one guarantees a newer version can load an
older backup file. A situation that happens on, oh, EVERY SINGLE DISTRO
UPDATE EVER. Especially the 5 year LTS release upgrades.

Why even have the option in the menus? It's nearly useless!
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Re: [Evolution] Newbie-questions

[Ralf Mardorf]

On Mon, 2016-10-24 at 13:12 +0100, Patrick O'Callaghan wrote:
> On Mon, 2016-10-24 at 13:58 +0200, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
> > Menu bar > Help > Contents   or   F1-key
> > 
> > Ctrl+F or Ctrl+S or click the search icon and type "back" and all your
> > backup related questions are answered.
> 
> Strictly yes, but maybe not what you want. The built-in backup system
> is intended for migrating all your Evo data to another machine, or when
> reinstalling your system. It's not for doing regular backups. If you
> want to backup local data, look under ~/.local/share/evolution and
> ~/.config/evolution. However make sure Evo is completely stopped
> (evolution --force-shutdown) before using these files for backups or
> restores.

From "Back up and restore"

"~/.bogofilter/"
"~/.spamassassin/"

and

"See Also
Data storage locations — Where does Evolution store my data on the
harddisk?"

is a link against

"Data storage locations
This is only interesting for advanced users who want to debug problems.
[snip]"

Regards,
Ralf

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Re: [Evolution] Newbie-questions

[Adam Tauno Williams]

On Mon, 2016-10-24 at 12:43 +0100, James Freer wrote:
> using linux xubuntu 16.04

This is not helpful - please provide the version of EVOLUTION for
discussions.  Help -> About.

Distributions are far less important than many people seem to believe.

> - can I set the mailbox to ascending order rather than descending

In regards to what?  Clicking on a header will reverse the sort order.

> - using imap. Which directory is mail and settings stored in on the 
> PC as I would prefer to do manual backups. Not sure what others do 
> but when one installs the next xubuntu update I want to be able to 
> copy the directory to remote hard drive and copy it back once new
> install is set up.

Local backups of an IMAP account don't make much sense - what Evolution
downloads is nothing more than a [potentially very] incomplete cache.

There is a backup/restore feature built into Evolution - File: backup /
restore.  Use that.  Where Evolution does / does-not store information
is not something a user should need to know and may change between
versions.

-- 
Adam Tauno Williams  GPG D95ED383
OpenGroupware Developer 


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Re: [Evolution] Newbie-questions

[Patrick O'Callaghan]

On Mon, 2016-10-24 at 13:58 +0200, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
> On Mon, 2016-10-24 at 12:43 +0100, James Freer wrote:
> > 
> > using linux xubuntu 16.04
> 
> You should mention the version of Evolution.

To elaborate: Evolution runs on many Linux distros so telling us your
version of Xubuntu is not usually very helpful (only a minority of list
members will know about it). Always quote the version of Evo itself
(Help->About).

> > 
> > - using imap. Which directory is mail and settings stored in on the PC as I 
> > would prefer to do manual backups. Not sure what others do but when one 
> > installs the next xubuntu update I want to be able to copy the directory to 
> > remote hard drive and copy it back once new install is set up.
> > 
> 
> Menu bar > Help > Contents   or   F1-key
> 
> Ctrl+F or Ctrl+S or click the search icon and type "back" and all your
> backup related questions are answered.

Strictly yes, but maybe not what you want. The built-in backup system
is intended for migrating all your Evo data to another machine, or when
reinstalling your system. It's not for doing regular backups. If you
want to backup local data, look under ~/.local/share/evolution and
~/.config/evolution. However make sure Evo is completely stopped
(evolution --force-shutdown) before using these files for backups or
restores.

> However, regarding stored mails consider to read about the differences
> between IMAP and POP.

In common with many of us, I prefer IMAP to POP because I don't need to
worry about backing up my mail as it's always on the server. That also
means I can access it from anywhere, including my phone. There is no
advantage in using POP unless your mail provider doesn't support it.

poc
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Re: [Evolution] Newbie-questions

[Ralf Mardorf]

On Mon, 2016-10-24 at 12:43 +0100, James Freer wrote:
> using linux xubuntu 16.04

You should mention the version of Evolution.

> - using imap. Which directory is mail and settings stored in on the PC as I 
> would prefer to do manual backups. Not sure what others do but when one 
> installs the next xubuntu update I want to be able to copy the directory to 
> remote hard drive and copy it back once new install is set up.
> 

Menu bar > Help > Contents   or   F1-key

Ctrl+F or Ctrl+S or click the search icon and type "back" and all your
backup related questions are answered.

However, regarding stored mails consider to read about the differences
between IMAP and POP.

Regards,
Ralf

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Re: [Evolution] newbie questions

[Jonathan Ernst]

Hello,

Le vendredi 25 septembre 2009 à 16:27 -0400, Ben May a écrit :
[...]
 - Is there a way to make my signature appear in every email without
 having to explicitly pick it?

Yes, in your account preference in the first tab you can choose your
default signature.

  Also, if I am replying to a message it
 appears to put my sig at the bottom of the entire message, whereas I
 want to appear at the bottom only of my text. 

The bottom of your text would always be at the bottom of the entire
message if you follow the recommanded way to reply to e-mails
(bottom-post) : http://catb.org/jargon/html/T/top-post.html

Best regards.


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Re: [Evolution] Newbie Questions

[Patrick O'Callaghan]

On Sun, 2008-11-30 at 16:58 +1100, Andrew J Fortune wrote:
 Sorry but I looked here, and found answers to none of the questions,
 except (4) which Evolution cryptically refers to as Expunge.

Expunge is an IMAP term, it's not specific to Evolution.

You need to understand the IMAP model for deleting messages: delete
marks a message for deletion, but doesn't remove it. Expunge removes
it. Evolution shows deleted messages in a Trash folder, but Trash is a
*virtual* folder, i.e. the messages have not physically moved. If you
deselect View-Hide Deleted Messages in some folder you'll see them in
their original positions, marked with a line through them. Expunging a
folder removes the marked messages in that folder. Emptying Trash is
equivalent to expunging all the marked messages in all folders. Before
you ask, you can't expunge an individual message.

IMAP has no operation for moving messages between folders. It only
allows copying. Evo has a Move operation, but it works as copy+delete,
and of course delete follows the above model. So after moving a
message you'll still see it in its original location (depending on your
View settings), but marked for deletion.

I've no idea how to import Outlook messages, but if they're on an IMAP
server there's no problem as you can just access them directly.
Alternatively, have them dumped as mbox files (one file per folder)
and import these into Evolution (mbox is the lowest-common-denominator
mailbox format under Unix/Linux and all clients support it at least for
importing).

Changing fonts is probably system-specific. In Linux it's mostly done by
the Gnome desktop, not by Evolution itself (but look under
Preferences-Mail Preferences-General). I don't know how this is done
in Windows.

Setting Evo as the default mail client is Windows-specific and has
nothing to do with Evolution as such (Evo might have a helper function
for it, but it might not). IIRC you right-click on something in the
Windows Start menu, but don't quote me :-)

I'm not sure what you mean by saving messages. You can move messages
between folders with drag-and-drop or select messages and do
Message-Move (or Copy). I imagine Evo supports the usual Windows method
of Ctrl-Click to select multiple messages. Or use filters if you want to
automate it. Note that automatic filters only work on Unseen messages
(check the FAQ), but you can also apply them manually (Ctrl-Y).

poc

PS Please don't post to this list in HTML.

PPS Please don't top-post as it makes threads harder to read.

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Re: [Evolution] Newbie Questions

[Patrick O'Callaghan]

On Sun, 2008-11-30 at 10:39 +1100, Andrew J Fortune wrote:
 Hi,
  
 I'm a newbie Evolution user. I am also a Windows XP user, hence I am
 using the version that has been ported to Windows.
  
 I have numerous questions, and have not been able to find the answer
 by
 looking at the documentation or the archives of this mailing list.
  
 They are as follows : 
  
 (1) How do you import mail messages from Outlook Express ? 
 (2) How do you make Evolution the default mail client, when Outlook
 Express is also on the system ? (can't just install OE AFAIK, its
 integrated into the OS)
 (3) How do you set unread mail messages to display in bold ? (...this
 feature appears to be available, according to the Reading EMail
 screenshot on the Evolution website)
 (4) How do you completely delete a mail message (as opposed to sending
 it to the Trash) ?
 (5) How do you MOVE a mail message to another folder (as opposed to
 COPYING, which is what happens when you click and drag) ?
 (6) How do you save multiple messages in one hit, for backup
 purposes ? 

Many of these questions are dealt with in the FAQ:
http://www.go-evolution.org/FAQ


poc

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Re: [Evolution] Newbie Questions

[Andrew J Fortune]

Sorry but I looked here, and found answers to none of the questions,
except (4) which Evolution cryptically refers to as Expunge.


? On Sun, 2008-11-30 at 10:39 +1100, Andrew J Fortune wrote:
  Hi,
   
  I'm a newbie Evolution user. I am also a Windows XP user, hence I am
  using the version that has been ported to Windows.
   
  I have numerous questions, and have not been able to find the answer
  by
  looking at the documentation or the archives of this mailing list.
   
  They are as follows : 
   
  (1) How do you import mail messages from Outlook Express ? 
  (2) How do you make Evolution the default mail client, when Outlook
  Express is also on the system ? (can't just install OE AFAIK, its
  integrated into the OS)
  (3) How do you set unread mail messages to display in bold ? (...this
  feature appears to be available, according to the Reading EMail
  screenshot on the Evolution website)
  (4) How do you completely delete a mail message (as opposed to sending
  it to the Trash) ?
  (5) How do you MOVE a mail message to another folder (as opposed to
  COPYING, which is what happens when you click and drag) ?
  (6) How do you save multiple messages in one hit, for backup
  purposes ? 
?
? Many of these questions are dealt with in the FAQ:
? http://www.go-evolution.org/FAQ
?
?
? poc
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