RE: No tape Exchange 2010
We were told that if we were running at least a 3 server DAG and that one of the databases lagged behind the other two at a DR site, that tape backups wouldn't be necessary. The lagging database was in order to recover in case the database became corrupted and replicated. I'm not that trusting. I still believe in good ol' fashioned tape backups. I think of it as insurance. If you think you can get by without maximum coverage you can pay less of a premium. -Paul From: Young, Darren [mailto:darren.yo...@chicagobooth.edu] Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2012 9:13 AM To: MS-Exchange Admin Issues Subject: No tape Exchange 2010 Is there anyone here running Exchange 2010/DAG and not doing tape backups? In our primary site we have 4 mailbox hosts with an active and inactive copy of all DB's, DR site has 2 hosts with inactive copies of most DB's. We have about 8 TB of mail in the primary site and another 6TB in the DR site. 6500 active mailboxes, 15% quota at 2GB (faculty staff) the remainder at 1GB (students). We then have an additional 20,000+ 20MB alumni mailboxes that we don't include in DR. Tape backups in the primary site are getting, well, rather unwieldy. We currently use TSM with the Exchange TDP to spin copies of the inactive DB's to tape at the primary site. We're considering adding a lag copy in our DR site to cover DB corruption risk. As far as we can tell, the only reason we still would need to spin to tape is to recover a deleted mailbox. We're currently hanging onto those for 30 days in Exchange and in theory could extend that period to cover that risk. We don't offer item level recovery for users from tape, we hold deleted items for 14 days so they can do it themselves. Looking through our tickets we see that we've only done 3 restores from tape in the past 6 months, 2 for accidentally deleted mailboxes and 1 from a subpoena. All three of them were over the 30 day Exchange deleted mailbox policy but within the 90 day window we keep backups in TSM. Looking for any thoughts from other people not spinning Exchange 2010 to tape anymore. Darren Young Systems Security Architect Computing Services University of Chicago Booth School of Business 5807 South Woodlawn Avenue Chicago, IL 60637 Voice 773.702.0331 | Fax 773.702.0233 --- To manage subscriptions click here: http://lyris.sunbelt-software.com/read/my_forums/ or send an email to listmana...@lyris.sunbeltsoftware.commailto:listmana...@lyris.sunbeltsoftware.com with the body: unsubscribe exchangelist --- To manage subscriptions click here: http://lyris.sunbelt-software.com/read/my_forums/ or send an email to listmana...@lyris.sunbeltsoftware.com with the body: unsubscribe exchangelist
RE: No tape Exchange 2010
In our case right now the premium is time, not $$. We have ample capacity in our tape library, it just takes forever to send many many (many) TB to tape even over 4GB fiber to LTO-4 drives. From: Maglinger, Paul [mailto:pmaglin...@scvl.com] Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2012 9:52 AM To: MS-Exchange Admin Issues Subject: RE: No tape Exchange 2010 We were told that if we were running at least a 3 server DAG and that one of the databases lagged behind the other two at a DR site, that tape backups wouldn't be necessary. The lagging database was in order to recover in case the database became corrupted and replicated. I'm not that trusting. I still believe in good ol' fashioned tape backups. I think of it as insurance. If you think you can get by without maximum coverage you can pay less of a premium. -Paul From: Young, Darren [mailto:darren.yo...@chicagobooth.edu]mailto:[mailto:darren.yo...@chicagobooth.edu] Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2012 9:13 AM To: MS-Exchange Admin Issues Subject: No tape Exchange 2010 Is there anyone here running Exchange 2010/DAG and not doing tape backups? In our primary site we have 4 mailbox hosts with an active and inactive copy of all DB's, DR site has 2 hosts with inactive copies of most DB's. We have about 8 TB of mail in the primary site and another 6TB in the DR site. 6500 active mailboxes, 15% quota at 2GB (faculty staff) the remainder at 1GB (students). We then have an additional 20,000+ 20MB alumni mailboxes that we don't include in DR. Tape backups in the primary site are getting, well, rather unwieldy. We currently use TSM with the Exchange TDP to spin copies of the inactive DB's to tape at the primary site. We're considering adding a lag copy in our DR site to cover DB corruption risk. As far as we can tell, the only reason we still would need to spin to tape is to recover a deleted mailbox. We're currently hanging onto those for 30 days in Exchange and in theory could extend that period to cover that risk. We don't offer item level recovery for users from tape, we hold deleted items for 14 days so they can do it themselves. Looking through our tickets we see that we've only done 3 restores from tape in the past 6 months, 2 for accidentally deleted mailboxes and 1 from a subpoena. All three of them were over the 30 day Exchange deleted mailbox policy but within the 90 day window we keep backups in TSM. Looking for any thoughts from other people not spinning Exchange 2010 to tape anymore. Darren Young Systems Security Architect Computing Services University of Chicago Booth School of Business 5807 South Woodlawn Avenue Chicago, IL 60637 Voice 773.702.0331 | Fax 773.702.0233 --- To manage subscriptions click here: http://lyris.sunbelt-software.com/read/my_forums/ or send an email to listmana...@lyris.sunbeltsoftware.commailto:listmana...@lyris.sunbeltsoftware.com with the body: unsubscribe exchangelist --- To manage subscriptions click here: http://lyris.sunbelt-software.com/read/my_forums/ or send an email to listmana...@lyris.sunbeltsoftware.commailto:listmana...@lyris.sunbeltsoftware.com with the body: unsubscribe exchangelist --- To manage subscriptions click here: http://lyris.sunbelt-software.com/read/my_forums/ or send an email to listmana...@lyris.sunbeltsoftware.com with the body: unsubscribe exchangelist
RE: No tape Exchange 2010
Could you elaborate on what the root cause of that one instance was? From: Rupprecht, James R. [mailto:jimruppre...@ku.edu] Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2012 11:11 AM To: MS-Exchange Admin Issues Subject: RE: No tape Exchange 2010 We currently run a three-replica DAG in Exchange 2010 and had discussed not spinning tape when we stood it up. In the end we decided to let DPM 2010 back it up and spin tape once a week. Our backup window is only 14 days. Deleted item recovery is set to 14 days and deleted mailbox recovery is set to 28 days. We have encountered one instance where none of the three database copies of a particular database was mountable and we had to roll back from DPM in order to restore service lossless. Not sure if a lagged copy would have helped in this situation. Jim Rupprecht University of Kansas From: Bolser, Scott [mailto:scott.bol...@childrens.harvard.edu]mailto:[mailto:scott.bol...@childrens.harvard.edu] Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2012 10:23 AM To: MS-Exchange Admin Issues Subject: RE: No tape Exchange 2010 We're currently building out our DB lag environment to complete our tape elimination project. We have a multi-site DAG with single item recovery enabled equal to our current tape retention policy. The DB lag environment will provide protection against db corruption. Deleted mailbox retention will be set to equal our current tape retention policy in case a restore is needed for a legal or hr investigation. From: Young, Darren [mailto:darren.yo...@chicagobooth.edu] Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2012 10:34 AM To: MS-Exchange Admin Issues Subject: No tape Exchange 2010 Is there anyone here running Exchange 2010/DAG and not doing tape backups? In our primary site we have 4 mailbox hosts with an active and inactive copy of all DB's, DR site has 2 hosts with inactive copies of most DB's. We have about 8 TB of mail in the primary site and another 6TB in the DR site. 6500 active mailboxes, 15% quota at 2GB (faculty staff) the remainder at 1GB (students). We then have an additional 20,000+ 20MB alumni mailboxes that we don't include in DR. Tape backups in the primary site are getting, well, rather unwieldy. We currently use TSM with the Exchange TDP to spin copies of the inactive DB's to tape at the primary site. We're considering adding a lag copy in our DR site to cover DB corruption risk. As far as we can tell, the only reason we still would need to spin to tape is to recover a deleted mailbox. We're currently hanging onto those for 30 days in Exchange and in theory could extend that period to cover that risk. We don't offer item level recovery for users from tape, we hold deleted items for 14 days so they can do it themselves. Looking through our tickets we see that we've only done 3 restores from tape in the past 6 months, 2 for accidentally deleted mailboxes and 1 from a subpoena. All three of them were over the 30 day Exchange deleted mailbox policy but within the 90 day window we keep backups in TSM. Looking for any thoughts from other people not spinning Exchange 2010 to tape anymore. Darren Young Systems Security Architect Computing Services University of Chicago Booth School of Business 5807 South Woodlawn Avenue Chicago, IL 60637 Voice 773.702.0331 | Fax 773.702.0233 --- To manage subscriptions click here: http://lyris.sunbelt-software.com/read/my_forums/ or send an email to listmana...@lyris.sunbeltsoftware.commailto:listmana...@lyris.sunbeltsoftware.com with the body: unsubscribe exchangelist --- To manage subscriptions click here: http://lyris.sunbelt-software.com/read/my_forums/ or send an email to listmana...@lyris.sunbeltsoftware.commailto:listmana...@lyris.sunbeltsoftware.com with the body: unsubscribe exchangelist --- To manage subscriptions click here: http://lyris.sunbelt-software.com/read/my_forums/ or send an email to listmana...@lyris.sunbeltsoftware.commailto:listmana...@lyris.sunbeltsoftware.com with the body: unsubscribe exchangelist --- To manage subscriptions click here: http://lyris.sunbelt-software.com/read/my_forums/ or send an email to listmana...@lyris.sunbeltsoftware.com with the body: unsubscribe exchangelist
RE: No tape Exchange 2010
Thanks, that's fine. Creepy that a single mailbox can kill an entire store. From: Rupprecht, James R. [mailto:jimruppre...@ku.edu] Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2012 1:58 PM To: MS-Exchange Admin Issues Subject: RE: No tape Exchange 2010 The real answer is that they could not figure it out (we actually shipped the database to Microsoft). The best guess is that we had a single corrupt mailbox that caused corruption in the database indexes. Prior to the issue one mailbox in the database was generating a warning. When I rolled back from tape and replayed logs the database mounted but fell over again within a few minutes. I restored/replayed a second time and then immediately moved the suspect mailbox. The database was stable after that. We did still move all the users out of the database and then delete and recreate it just to be safe. FWIW, here is the error we were seeing when the database failed: Error server name 113 ExchangeStoreDB Database recovery N/A At '11/11/2011 12:20:33 AM' database copy 'database name' on this server appears to have a serious error which is unlikely to be resolved by a failover. Consult the Event log on the server for other storage and 'ExchangeStoreDb' events for more specific information about the failure. Service recovery was not attempted. I don't have the event the problem mailbox was throwing immediately available right now but I do remember that it was only a 'warning' not an 'error'. Jim From: Young, Darren [mailto:darren.yo...@chicagobooth.edu]mailto:[mailto:darren.yo...@chicagobooth.edu] Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2012 11:37 AM To: MS-Exchange Admin Issues Subject: RE: No tape Exchange 2010 Could you elaborate on what the root cause of that one instance was? From: Rupprecht, James R. [mailto:jimruppre...@ku.edu] Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2012 11:11 AM To: MS-Exchange Admin Issues Subject: RE: No tape Exchange 2010 We currently run a three-replica DAG in Exchange 2010 and had discussed not spinning tape when we stood it up. In the end we decided to let DPM 2010 back it up and spin tape once a week. Our backup window is only 14 days. Deleted item recovery is set to 14 days and deleted mailbox recovery is set to 28 days. We have encountered one instance where none of the three database copies of a particular database was mountable and we had to roll back from DPM in order to restore service lossless. Not sure if a lagged copy would have helped in this situation. Jim Rupprecht University of Kansas From: Bolser, Scott [mailto:scott.bol...@childrens.harvard.edu]mailto:[mailto:scott.bol...@childrens.harvard.edu] Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2012 10:23 AM To: MS-Exchange Admin Issues Subject: RE: No tape Exchange 2010 We're currently building out our DB lag environment to complete our tape elimination project. We have a multi-site DAG with single item recovery enabled equal to our current tape retention policy. The DB lag environment will provide protection against db corruption. Deleted mailbox retention will be set to equal our current tape retention policy in case a restore is needed for a legal or hr investigation. From: Young, Darren [mailto:darren.yo...@chicagobooth.edu] Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2012 10:34 AM To: MS-Exchange Admin Issues Subject: No tape Exchange 2010 Is there anyone here running Exchange 2010/DAG and not doing tape backups? In our primary site we have 4 mailbox hosts with an active and inactive copy of all DB's, DR site has 2 hosts with inactive copies of most DB's. We have about 8 TB of mail in the primary site and another 6TB in the DR site. 6500 active mailboxes, 15% quota at 2GB (faculty staff) the remainder at 1GB (students). We then have an additional 20,000+ 20MB alumni mailboxes that we don't include in DR. Tape backups in the primary site are getting, well, rather unwieldy. We currently use TSM with the Exchange TDP to spin copies of the inactive DB's to tape at the primary site. We're considering adding a lag copy in our DR site to cover DB corruption risk. As far as we can tell, the only reason we still would need to spin to tape is to recover a deleted mailbox. We're currently hanging onto those for 30 days in Exchange and in theory could extend that period to cover that risk. We don't offer item level recovery for users from tape, we hold deleted items for 14 days so they can do it themselves. Looking through our tickets we see that we've only done 3 restores from tape in the past 6 months, 2 for accidentally deleted mailboxes and 1 from a subpoena. All three of them were over the 30 day Exchange deleted mailbox policy but within the 90 day window we keep backups in TSM. Looking for any thoughts from other people not spinning Exchange 2010 to tape anymore. Darren Young Systems Security Architect Computing Services University of Chicago Booth School of Business 5807 South Woodlawn Avenue Chicago, IL 60637 Voice 773.702.0331 | Fax 773.702.0233 --- To manage subscriptions click here
RE: No tape Exchange 2010
I’m not that trusting. I still believe in good ol’ fashioned tape backups. I think of it as insurance Just out of curiousity, how often do you test the tapes and where do they get stored? From: pmaglin...@scvl.com To: exchangelist@lyris.sunbelt-software.com Subject: RE: No tape Exchange 2010 Date: Thu, 24 May 2012 14:51:36 + We were told that if we were running at least a 3 server DAG and that one of the databases lagged behind the other two at a DR site, that tape backups wouldn’t be necessary. The lagging database was in order to recover in case the database became corrupted and replicated. I’m not that trusting. I still believe in good ol’ fashioned tape backups. I think of it as insurance. If you think you can get by without maximum coverage you can pay less of a premium. -Paul From: Young, Darren [mailto:darren.yo...@chicagobooth.edu] Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2012 9:13 AM To: MS-Exchange Admin Issues Subject: No tape Exchange 2010 Is there anyone here running Exchange 2010/DAG and not doing tape backups? In our primary site we have 4 mailbox hosts with an active and inactive copy of all DB’s, DR site has 2 hosts with inactive copies of most DB’s. We have about 8 TB of mail in the primary site and another 6TB in the DR site. 6500 active mailboxes, 15% quota at 2GB (faculty staff) the remainder at 1GB (students). We then have an additional 20,000+ 20MB alumni mailboxes that we don’t include in DR. Tape backups in the primary site are getting, well, rather unwieldy. We currently use TSM with the Exchange TDP to spin copies of the inactive DB’s to tape at the primary site. We’re considering adding a lag copy in our DR site to cover DB corruption risk. As far as we can tell, the only reason we still would need to spin to tape is to recover a deleted mailbox. We’re currently hanging onto those for 30 days in Exchange and in theory could extend that period to cover that risk. We don’t offer item level recovery for users from tape, we hold deleted items for 14 days so they can do it themselves. Looking through our tickets we see that we’ve only done 3 restores from tape in the past 6 months, 2 for “accidentally” deleted mailboxes and 1 from a subpoena. All three of them were over the 30 day Exchange deleted mailbox policy but within the 90 day window we keep backups in TSM. Looking for any thoughts from other people not spinning Exchange 2010 to tape anymore. Darren Young Systems Security Architect Computing Services University of Chicago Booth School of Business 5807 South Woodlawn Avenue Chicago, IL 60637 Voice 773.702.0331 | Fax 773.702.0233 --- To manage subscriptions click here: http://lyris.sunbelt-software.com/read/my_forums/ or send an email to listmana...@lyris.sunbeltsoftware.com with the body: unsubscribe exchangelist --- To manage subscriptions click here: http://lyris.sunbelt-software.com/read/my_forums/ or send an email to listmana...@lyris.sunbeltsoftware.com with the body: unsubscribe exchangelist --- To manage subscriptions click here: http://lyris.sunbelt-software.com/read/my_forums/ or send an email to listmana...@lyris.sunbeltsoftware.com with the body: unsubscribe exchangelist
