RE: [expert] Linux Fragmentation -- Is the Unthinkable already here?
perhaps mdk should start a philosophical musings mailing list. not that it hasn't been interesting. -brian -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of mike Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2001 7:01 PM To: Robert; 'Expert' Subject: Re: [expert] Linux Fragmentation -- Is the Unthinkable already here? Robert, All of that is well and good, and I agree with what you have said. But I do not think it addresses the author's point. Different distros doing things their way, the way that their users have become accustomed is freedom. Distros changing the way they do things from release to release, or putting their own atrocities in the way of the system (can anyone say YAST), to pigeon hole their users into one distro is the same kind of tyrany that Microsoft practices every day. I used to have one box running Mandrake and one running SuSE, but now they are both running Mandrake because I became weary of SuSE putting things in the wrong place, overwriting my changes, and just being generally uncooperative. Regrettably, this latest version of Mandrake is exhibitting some of the same qualities (not using the /etc/sysconfig/* files for their conterparts in /etc/rc.d/init.d for example). I do 100% of my computer time (in this seat, no accounting for taste at my employer) at this Linux box, so it would be nice if it consistently worked from release to release. mg On Thursday 28 June 2001 06:34, Robert wrote: > IMHO, different distributions offer freedom of choice, a big plus for the > Linux crowd when compared to M$. We sometimes caught up by the greed fo the > closed source world and forget that different means choices. This is what > promotes true competition. Only those companies who fear true competition > (M$) would think that these differences are positive. Those distros who do > not get purchased will fail and preferred distos will prosper. > > I just got finished reading Linus' book "Just for Fun" (can you tell) I > recommend it higly. > > Rob > > On Thursday 28 June 2001 00:16, Jose M. Sanchez wrote: > > Sigh... > > > > Why do you fall for this FUD? > > > > Different distros have been around for a long time without major > > incident. > > > > The writer is helping Microsoft more than anyone else. He has fallen > > prey to their mindset. > > > > -JMS > > > > > > -Original Message- > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Benjamin Sher > > Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2001 10:30 AM > > To: Expert; Newbie > > Subject: [expert] Linux Fragmentation -- Is the Unthinkable already > > here? > > > > > > Dear friends: > > > > "If Microsoft were to cook up a plan to cause Linux to disappear in a > > virtual > > Tower of Babel it could scarcely be more effective than that which has > > been > > adopted by distributions on their own, voluntarily."
Re: [expert] Linux Fragmentation -- Is the Unthinkable already here?
Robert, All of that is well and good, and I agree with what you have said. But I do not think it addresses the author's point. Different distros doing things their way, the way that their users have become accustomed is freedom. Distros changing the way they do things from release to release, or putting their own atrocities in the way of the system (can anyone say YAST), to pigeon hole their users into one distro is the same kind of tyrany that Microsoft practices every day. I used to have one box running Mandrake and one running SuSE, but now they are both running Mandrake because I became weary of SuSE putting things in the wrong place, overwriting my changes, and just being generally uncooperative. Regrettably, this latest version of Mandrake is exhibitting some of the same qualities (not using the /etc/sysconfig/* files for their conterparts in /etc/rc.d/init.d for example). I do 100% of my computer time (in this seat, no accounting for taste at my employer) at this Linux box, so it would be nice if it consistently worked from release to release. mg On Thursday 28 June 2001 06:34, Robert wrote: > IMHO, different distributions offer freedom of choice, a big plus for the > Linux crowd when compared to M$. We sometimes caught up by the greed fo the > closed source world and forget that different means choices. This is what > promotes true competition. Only those companies who fear true competition > (M$) would think that these differences are positive. Those distros who do > not get purchased will fail and preferred distos will prosper. > > I just got finished reading Linus' book "Just for Fun" (can you tell) I > recommend it higly. > > Rob > > On Thursday 28 June 2001 00:16, Jose M. Sanchez wrote: > > Sigh... > > > > Why do you fall for this FUD? > > > > Different distros have been around for a long time without major > > incident. > > > > The writer is helping Microsoft more than anyone else. He has fallen > > prey to their mindset. > > > > -JMS > > > > > > -Original Message- > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Benjamin Sher > > Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2001 10:30 AM > > To: Expert; Newbie > > Subject: [expert] Linux Fragmentation -- Is the Unthinkable already > > here? > > > > > > Dear friends: > > > > "If Microsoft were to cook up a plan to cause Linux to disappear in a > > virtual > > Tower of Babel it could scarcely be more effective than that which has > > been > > adopted by distributions on their own, voluntarily."
Re: [expert] Linux Fragmentation -- Is the Unthinkable already here?
IMHO, different distributions offer freedom of choice, a big plus for the Linux crowd when compared to M$. We sometimes caught up by the greed fo the closed source world and forget that different means choices. This is what promotes true competition. Only those companies who fear true competition (M$) would think that these differences are positive. Those distros who do not get purchased will fail and preferred distos will prosper. I just got finished reading Linus' book "Just for Fun" (can you tell) I recommend it higly. Rob On Thursday 28 June 2001 00:16, Jose M. Sanchez wrote: > Sigh... > > Why do you fall for this FUD? > > Different distros have been around for a long time without major > incident. > > The writer is helping Microsoft more than anyone else. He has fallen > prey to their mindset. > > -JMS > > > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Benjamin Sher > Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2001 10:30 AM > To: Expert; Newbie > Subject: [expert] Linux Fragmentation -- Is the Unthinkable already > here? > > > Dear friends: > > "If Microsoft were to cook up a plan to cause Linux to disappear in a > virtual > Tower of Babel it could scarcely be more effective than that which has > been > adopted by distributions on their own, voluntarily."
RE: [expert] Linux Fragmentation -- Is the Unthinkable already here?
Sigh... Why do you fall for this FUD? Different distros have been around for a long time without major incident. The writer is helping Microsoft more than anyone else. He has fallen prey to their mindset. -JMS -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Benjamin Sher Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2001 10:30 AM To: Expert; Newbie Subject: [expert] Linux Fragmentation -- Is the Unthinkable already here? Dear friends: "If Microsoft were to cook up a plan to cause Linux to disappear in a virtual Tower of Babel it could scarcely be more effective than that which has been adopted by distributions on their own, voluntarily."
[expert] Linux Fragmentation -- Is the Unthinkable already here?
Dear friends: "If Microsoft were to cook up a plan to cause Linux to disappear in a virtual Tower of Babel it could scarcely be more effective than that which has been adopted by distributions on their own, voluntarily." This is from an article by Dennis E. Powell in Linuxtoday (June 27, 2001) (www.linuxtoday.com) entitled "Separated by a Common Operating System". What do our experts (and newbies) think? If this is true, then is Linux not in deep trouble? A longer quote from the article follows: " This column started out in the hope of comparing Progeny with SuSE; that fell apart when I realized that Progeny's take on things, inherited from the Debian to which I understand it remains true, is just too different from the RPM-based-distributions' way of doing things for me to learn it in a short time. What I went on to discover, though, is that the lumping together of RPM-based distros really can't be done, either. They are beset by incompatibilities such that they might as well be different operating systems (with some exceptions for people who compile their own stuff, presuming that they remember to install the -devel version of everything, which is also ridiculous). Knowledge of one distribution has little to do with any other distribution. This sort of thing occasionally results in indignant howls, as when Red Hat shipped gcc-2.96. Usually, though, it goes largely unnoticed. But it has its effect, and that is confusion among prospective users. Not long ago, if you got a Linux distribution you got Debian, Slackware, or something else, and the something elses were largely interchangeable as to what they installed -- the differences were in installation and configuration tools, the newness of the stuff included, and what applications were provided. Upgrading was fairly simple, because an RPM for one would probably work for all. And Linux desktop use grew." "Now incompatibilities are being introduced hand over fist, as distributions fight for a bigger and bigger piece of a diminishing pie, until oneday one will own all of nothing. Does this do anything useful for the distributions, users, Linux, anybody? Well, no. And while I've singled SuSE out because it's the one where I've most recently encountered this nonsense, no distribution is exempt. If Microsoft were to cook up a plan to cause Linux to disappear in a virtual Tower of Babel it could scarcely be more effective than that which has been adopted by distributions on their own, voluntarily." Benjamin -- Sher's Russian Web http://www.websher.net Benjamin and Anna Sher [EMAIL PROTECTED]
