Re: [expert] Which is better choice ext3 or reiserfs for thefilesystem
On Tue, 2002-04-16 at 14:21, Leonardo T. de Carvalho wrote: I've seen this on my Reisers every time. Can someone explain how to get out of this situation when using ReiserFS? Mdk8.1 and 8.2 being used... Thanx in advance You're lucky I saw this, this thread is getting old. If you're asking for a recommendation and it looks like you are, I recommend that you use ext3, unless you're set up to be cannon fodder for experimentation on the other two FS's. On the other hand, if you've got extra hardware, some time to burn, and a production system that's seperate from the experimental one, by all means run simulations on the test hardware, with the other FS's. Make it crash. Yank the power cord. See if they hold up. I'd love to do that meself, but I've got too many irons in the fire as it is. HTH, LX -- °°° Kernel 2.4.8-26mdk Mandrake Linux 8.1 Enlightenment 0.16.5Evolution 1.02 Registered Linux User #268899 http://counter.li.org/ °°° _ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] Which is better choice ext3 or reiserfs for thefilesystem
On Tue, 2002-04-02 at 03:03, James wrote: Lyvim, 100% correct on all accounts. One extra point... Some people cant/don't discharge through static band correctly. (about 1 out of a 1000) High natural levels of static. Make sure that the wrist band is on with the metal tab connecting to the bottom of your wrist not the top as hair will form enough of an insulator to make it useless have it about 2 to 3 inches up from the wrist so that when you bend the wrist it doesn't lose contact. James Thanks James! Sometimes I wonder if anyone reads this stuff. ;) You've made my night. :) And there's something else I like about this list; there's always somebody out there that has a leg up that you don't have; for instance, I've added your knowledge above to my own. The hairy angle was something I hadn't considered! Cheers, LX -- °°° Kernel 2.4.8-26mdk Mandrake Linux 8.1 Enlightenment 0.16.5Evolution 1.02 Registered Linux User #268899 http://counter.li.org/ °°° _ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] Which is better choice ext3 or reiserfs for thefilesystem
On Fri, 2002-03-29 at 14:06, Guy Zelck wrote: I've installed it and ran it for 6H without any errors popping up. I personally don't believe it's the memory which is in fault. As if the devil was involved I had a freeze again just after boot-up. I followed the Alt-SysRq-... sequence to finally reboot but then again I had my KDE files corrupted. What I don't understand is how that crap is written to my config files. If xfs writes what it finds in its xfs log then it would mean that the xfs log contains rubbish. How did this rubbish get in there or is it taking a wrong part of the log. Is the xfs that's used in md8.2 still the same version or is it a higher version? Maybe upgrade? When I boot up the only fsck I ever notice amongst Aurora's output is the one of my /boot partition (ext2), is this supposed to be like that? I suppose Fsck in rc.sysinit just re-directs the output to syslog. Guy. Guy, The SCSI bus chain needs to be terminated on both ends. By that I mean that the adapter itself needs some termination (usually set to automatic in the bios in the case of the Adaptec models (I have an Adaptec 3940U dual channel PCI installed in this machine btw). In the hopes of giving you some new information, assuming there are no devices OUTSIDE the adapter, i.e. something like a scanner hooked to the outside port, as I said the adapter should be set to automatic termination; however you still have the other end of the scsi bus to worry about, and that is inside the machine. Termination must be installed on the hard drive (or device) FURTHEST from the card. I assume here that you know when I say furthest I don't mean physically but instead with regards to the SCSI cable. All other termination on other devices except the adaptec card must be removed. The correct procedure is to check all your devices. This includes your 2940. I think you said that you don't have access to the Adaptec bios anymore. There happens to be a quiet option in these cards that turns off the verbose bios access message when the card bios is loading. HOWEVER THE OPTION IS STILL THERE. This may be your problem. When you see the scsi bios init message, go ahead and hit ctrl-a. Even though there was no ctrl-a message you will still get into the bios screen for the Adaptec card. At this point you can check your settings. Improper termination can lead to all sorts of very wierd problems. HTH, LX -- °°° Kernel 2.4.8-26mdk Mandrake Linux 8.1 Enlightenment 0.16.5Evolution 1.02 Registered Linux User #268899 http://counter.li.org/ °°° _ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] Which is better choice ext3 or reiserfs for thefilesystem
One other point to make. There are also many wierdisms that are caused by something professional techs call static wounding. This occurs when a sensitive high density IC chip (or a single discrete transistor for that matter) passes through a static field. It also occurs when a non static-protected person opens a sealed static bag and touches the components inside. Static sparks jumping from the person to the component are also a sure sign that you don't need to waste your time; go ahead and throw the component/device away. What happens is that a moving static field (like the one that's on your body 90% of the time if you're not grounded) passes through the IC device, which induces voltage in the microscopic conductive traces. This can cause the energy thus generated to jump a nonconductor gap across to the next nearest tracer. This leaves a valley in the nonconductor wall between the tracers, offtimes seeded with vaporized tracer material. Contgrats; with no prior experience, skill or intel fab plant, you just created you own tracer. That's right; you're just that good. The correct procedure to follow when you are working on your computer is to wear a static wrist band, and to keep your computer components away from nonconductor surfaces. (read: carpet). Anti static spray is not reliable. Static wrist bands are available from your local Radio Shack. To avoid electronic mea culpa and endless firehose quantities of frustration, I recommend that anyone working on a peripheral or mobo wear a grounded static wrist band until the box is closed up. Touching the case is not totally reliable, since you can generate several thousand invisible static volts just by raising your arm, if you have any sort of synthetic garment on. In other words your static shadow just regenerates in short order. I'd venture to say that from what Ive seen, about 80% of all RMA's, marginal functionality, failures, and most frustrations several months after installation are due totally to improper handling. Read: Laziness. The problem is rampant (and I mean RAMPANT) in mom-pop computer shops. BEWARE of these. Next time you walk into your local computer store, go straight to the back without warning and surprise the techs; specifically, see if they have their wristbands on when servicing customer's equipment. I've got money that says they won't have them on. Typically I try to order my mobos from high volume internet shops on the pacific coast so I can get the mobo right after it comes off the ship. I never trust one that's been handled by anyone other than me; that keeps me from having to worry about looking backwards. I always know that my problem is somewhere ahead of me. If that makes any sense. This goes for peripherals, too. I've got a few suppliers that I trust. As I said above, the requirement for static wounding only involves a static field; this implies that you do NOT have to touch a component in order to damage it. All you have to do is pass your hand near the component. This is why static bags are there, and this is what they prevent; they stop not just touch, but static fields as well. Synopsis of above soapbox/wooden nickel contribution: Correct procedure for computer service work is to wear a grounded static wrist band. Best Regards, LX -- °°° Kernel 2.4.8-26mdk Mandrake Linux 8.1 Enlightenment 0.16.5Evolution 1.02 Registered Linux User #268899 http://counter.li.org/ °°° _ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] Which is better choice ext3 or reiserfs for thefilesystem
Suppose I should put in a bit about reiser - I have had two problems. The minor one was an infinite directory that was fixed by reserfstools, the other more serious. I woke up one morning after leaving the machine happily downloading mdk8.2RC1cd1 overnight to a hung machine. Investigation showed nothing on one of the two 60gbyte ibm drives (with /home and /usr of course!). Thinking that it was one of the bad ibm drives, I tried repartitioning and formatting (no partitions showed!) so I could say I tried, and it came up with a good format! Required a complete reinstall and luckily I had backups, but I have no idea what caused it. The machines been stable since, and as the disk partitioning disappeared, I am not sure reiser could be the cause, but ... BillK *when I do 8.2 this weekend, it will be reiser on raid 1 across both disks! On Fri, 2002-03-29 at 18:17, Guy Zelck wrote: Lyvim Xaphir wrote: On Thu, 2002-03-28 at 07:26, Guy Zelck wrote: ---snip--- Interesting thread I thought to post my troubles with XFS to. When I installed md8.1 on my home system I went from reiserfs, which never gave me trouble, to using xfs which I knew from work having it on our Silicon Graphics machine. I also read a lot about it and for speed and features it seemed the best and having a high esteem for SGI I did Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] Which is better choice ext3 or reiserfs for thefilesystem
On Thu, 2002-03-28 at 01:27, J. Craig Woods wrote: Like so many different variations on your machine, filesytems should be made with reference to as many criteria as possible. Yes, speed is good but what if you go for speed and lose some function you might need? As a SA there are times I need to set file attributes. You know, a file gets deleted that should not have been deleted, etc. With file attribs, I have saved by butt many times. Ext3 will let me set file attributes, and reiserfs does not support them. My choice is not choice: I must go with ext2 or ext3. The bottom line is make choices based on what you need... -- J. Craig Woods UNIX/NT Network/System Administration Craig, I spoke with an XFS developer the other day on the (what else) #xfs channel. Same server as hosts the #mandrake channel. We discussed what you just now brought up; file attributes. I found out several things, one was that the minimum size of an XFS partition was 6 megs. This information is not readily available...I did RTFM before I resorted to cruising irc. The other was that he was positive that the chattr command would be unable to set an i attribute under XFS. He seemed unsure as to wether there were other unsupported attributes or not. Just thought I'd bring this up so you can add it to your information store if you haven't already. I've been looking very strongly at XFS; however, I've gotten the concrete impression that ext3 is a very hard to break filesystem. It seems very robust; at least on this system. I was motivated strongly to write this, because I had a crash just a short while ago. I've been trying to get a game to work, Heretic 2 for Linux. I got it installed and downloaded the latest update. Unfortunately it was statically compiled for glibc 2.1. 640x480 worked, but when I moved to other resolutions, it pumped out alot of errors and then vaporized. Three or four times later, I finally got it to attempt a load into 800x600. The entire system locked. If this had been an ext2 system I would have been sweatingespecially since I have two drives striped with no RAID1 mirror. I powered the system off and on, then it booted. I did not even get one error message. Absolutely nothing out of the ordinary; it was like a normal boot. This isn't the first time I've had lockups while trying something marginal or power failures while working. It's happened before. In every single instance, ext3 has cruised back into operation as if oblivious that anything had occurred(knock on wood). Ext3 continues to strike me as extremely robust. I'm highly curious about XFS, but then on the other hand I've been told that it's very poor judgement to drop pristine FS performance in exchange for an unknown when involving live data. In fact I just finished telling myself that a few minutes ago. ;) I'm definitely going to try XFS, but before I do I plan on having a mirror drive installed that RAID1's the main stripe array. Good luck... LX -- °°° Kernel 2.4.8-26mdk Mandrake Linux 8.1 Enlightenment 0.16.5Evolution 1.02 Registered Linux User #268899 http://counter.li.org/ °°° _ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] Which is better choice ext3 or reiserfs for thefilesystem
On Thu, 2002-03-28 at 07:26, Guy Zelck wrote: ---snip--- Interesting thread I thought to post my troubles with XFS to. When I installed md8.1 on my home system I went from reiserfs, which never gave me trouble, to using xfs which I knew from work having it on our Silicon Graphics machine. I also read a lot about it and for speed and features it seemed the best and having a high esteem for SGI I did not hesitate. Nevertheless I've experienced about 4 times so far the following (I have an IDE system disk 'quantum fireball' of 8GB): Every time there's a power cut I find a lot of files corrupted. Instead of their original contents they contain nothing but ^ (viewed with vim) characters. The files concerned are e.g. all the KDE config files of apps that were open at the time of the power cut, but I once had inittab message affected too. You can imagine that KDE wouldn't start after that in the 1st case and the whole system was fucked in the 2nd. This for me is totally unacceptable and I don't dare to imagine what this would mean for a company's production machine. Your results are interesting. But as in most other things it's important to have a reference point(s) for comparison. So I've got some questions: 1) What is the history of this hardware with relation to the previously installed scheme(s)? (what filesystem, Linux version, Win version) 2) Can you recall crashes under other circumstances that did not involve XFS in any way? (under this hardware config) Focus a little on hard drive history, as well as everything else. 3) What is the hardware's history with respect to diagnostics and tests? Has the memory been checked, dos diagnostics run, cpu checked.. If not, has the hardware got a respectable history of problem free operation under the previous OS? yay or nay...plus some details would be nice. My technical knowledge in this field is not sufficiant enough to pinpoint what exactly is the cause: the version of xfs included in 8.1, the way f.s. are checked (or not checked) on boot-up? I don't know. I've read before that journaling file systems didn't need to be fsck'ed but why do you find a fsck for reiser xfs then? Mar 25 All I see in the messages file is this : 22:57:40 gz kernel: Start mounting filesystem: ide0(3,6) Mar 25 22:57:40 gz kernel: XFS: WARNING: recovery required on readonly filesystem. Mar 25 22:57:40 gz kernel: XFS: write access will be enabled during mount. Mar 25 22:57:40 gz kernel: Starting XFS recovery on filesystem: ide0(3,6) (dev: 3/6) Mar 25 22:57:40 gz kernel: Ending XFS recovery on filesystem: ide0(3,6) (dev: 3/6) I'd be glad to learn more around this from active users of xfs since I sure would like to remedy this 'russion roulete' situation. See ya, Guy. Thanks and Regards, LX -- °°° Kernel 2.4.8-26mdk Mandrake Linux 8.1 Enlightenment 0.16.5Evolution 1.02 Registered Linux User #268899 http://counter.li.org/ °°° _ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] Which is better choice ext3 or reiserfs for thefilesystem
Lyvim Xaphir wrote: Craig, I spoke with an XFS developer the other day on the (what else) #xfs channel. Same server as hosts the #mandrake channel. We discussed what you just now brought up; file attributes. I found out several things, one was that the minimum size of an XFS partition was 6 megs. This information is not readily available...I did RTFM before I resorted to cruising irc. Lyvim, what is the name of the mandrake channel on irc. Is it as simple as #mandrake , and what server is hosting it and #xfs? The other was that he was positive that the chattr command would be unable to set an i attribute under XFS. He seemed unsure as to wether there were other unsupported attributes or not. Just thought I'd bring this up so you can add it to your information store if you haven't already. I've been looking very strongly at XFS; however, I've gotten the concrete impression that ext3 is a very hard to break filesystem. It seems very robust; at least on this system. Yep, I agree. I have ext3 running on Mandrake, Red Hat, and SuSE. It has performed quite well for me. Plus, I still have file attribs available if needed. This isn't the first time I've had lockups while trying something marginal or power failures while working. It's happened before. In every single instance, ext3 has cruised back into operation as if oblivious that anything had occurred(knock on wood). Ext3 continues to strike me as extremely robust. I'm highly curious about XFS, but then on the other hand I've been told that it's very poor judgement to drop pristine FS performance in exchange for an unknown when involving live data. In fact I just finished telling myself that a few minutes ago. ;) I'm definitely going to try XFS, but before I do I plan on having a mirror drive installed that RAID1's the main stripe array. Good luck... Thanks for the info, and do keep me updated on your experimenting with XFS. And if you talk to the developer again, ask him if there are any plans to implement file attributes in XFS. I would love to try it. Thanks and good luck too. -- J. Craig Woods UNIX/NT Network/System Administration -Art is the illusion of spontaneity- Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] Which is better choice ext3 or reiserfs for thefilesystem
J. Craig Woods wrote: Lyvim Xaphir wrote: Craig, I spoke with an XFS developer the other day on the (what else) #xfs channel. Same server as hosts the #mandrake channel. We discussed what you just now brought up; file attributes. I found out several things, one was that the minimum size of an XFS partition was 6 megs. This information is not readily available...I did RTFM before I resorted to cruising irc. Lyvim, what is the name of the mandrake channel on irc. Is it as simple as #mandrake , and what server is hosting it and #xfs? The server is irc.openprojects.net yes the channels are #mandrake #xfs. Femme -- Good Decisions You boss Made: We'll do as you suggest and go with Linux. I've always liked that character from Peanuts. - Source: Dilbert Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] Which is better choice ext3 or reiserfs for thefilesystem
FemmeFatale wrote: The server is irc.openprojects.net yes the channels are #mandrake #xfs. Femme Wow! you are good. Thanks, -- J. Craig Woods UNIX/NT Network/System Administration -Art is the illusion of spontaneity- Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] Which is better choice ext3 or reiserfs for thefilesystem
J. Craig Woods wrote: FemmeFatale wrote: The server is irc.openprojects.net yes the channels are #mandrake #xfs. Femme Wow! you are good. Thanks, -- J. Craig Woods UNIX/NT Network/System Administration -Art is the illusion of spontaneity- Thx. I knew because Civilme posted the addy for the newbie list. I went talked to LX there a few days ago. Wish more from the lists would show up. :) Enjoy! Femme ;p -- Good Decisions You boss Made: We'll do as you suggest and go with Linux. I've always liked that character from Peanuts. - Source: Dilbert Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
