Re: [Factor-talk] Is there a Factor.js ?
John -- Couldn't resist chiming in here. Of course Factor is portable, open source, and reliable. These are three of its strongest attributes. But the DLL version of it nothwithstanding, it is such an attractive language from a language standpoint that it leads one to want to have it where one is already working -- not just as an alternative. Thus the genesis of my (admittedly expansive) vision of integrating it into the environment I am building. Chances are I'll die before that ever comes to anything. But a more general benefit to the wider community would be eventually to have Factor integrated into some of the development environments that folks are already using on a day-in, day-out. That probably means a reasonably smooth integration with non-Factor runtimes like the JVM or the CLR and the code and libraries that sit on top of them, as well as programming environments like Eclipse and VisualStudio. Now I understand how wild-eyed and future this is. The language after all is a labor of love from a dedicated community that just happens to have a lot of good taste, but finite resources. And it hasn't even reached 1.0 maturity yet, so there's much to be done before such a wider vision materializes. So please do not misunderstand; this is not in any way a complaint or criticism -- nor even a request, because, you know, that's just not realistic. It is, however, a hope. That some day this fabulous language can be brought into mainstream environments where it's power can be put to really widespread use. Granted, I'm an enterprise development manager by trade during the day, so maybe this is just my bias. But wishing and hoping costs nothing. Best, MikeFrom: mrj...@gmail.com Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2012 21:04:00 -0700 To: factor-talk@lists.sourceforge.net Subject: Re: [Factor-talk] Is there a Factor.js ? There is a Factor Playground implemented in Javascript: http://personal.inet.fi/koti/egaga/jsfactor/playground.html It does not work with Factor's extensive library, however. Its not worth getting into a philosophical discussion about Javascript, but I would note that Factor is portable (linux, mac, windows), open source (bsd license), and reliable (extensive library and test suites). Best,John. On Wed, Aug 22, 2012 at 7:44 PM, H.C. Chen hcchen5...@gmail.com wrote: I tried to find factor.js for a while, nothing found so far. What in my mind is the Processing programming language established on JavaScript. Include Processing.js into your .html turns it into processing aware. script src=processing-1.3.6.js /script Refer to http://processingjs.org/ We have Forth.js too. It run under Windows DOS box JScript interpreter. Like this: cscript.exe jeforth.js OKTo work in a shell is very useful. The reason I like anything.JS is the portability, open source, and reliable. -- Live Security Virtual Conference Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ ___ Factor-talk mailing list Factor-talk@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/factor-talk -- Live Security Virtual Conference Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ ___ Factor-talk mailing list Factor-talk@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/factor-talk -- Live Security Virtual Conference Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/___ Factor-talk mailing list Factor-talk@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/factor-talk
Re: [Factor-talk] Is there a Factor.js ?
smooth integration with non-Factor runtimes like the JVM or the CLR Have a look at cat which runs on the CLR: http://www.cat-language.com/intro.html . -- Live Security Virtual Conference Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/___ Factor-talk mailing list Factor-talk@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/factor-talk
Re: [Factor-talk] Is there a Factor.js ?
That, I would guess, is a result of its being implemented in C#. But what you lose at that point is the ability for the language to be used outside of the CLR and the extreme portability of something like Factor. What I'm envisioning is something closer to Microsoft's C++, which now has built-in support for generating MSIL, while still remaining completely viable on a native code platform. Such a capability for Factor (with the ability to generate JVM byte code as well) would allow Factor to act as a DSL layer above real-world code bases that organizations are always going to be using for a significant portion of their development. Sent from my iPhone On Aug 23, 2012, at 10:51 AM, Naveen Garg naveen.g...@gmail.com wrote: smooth integration with non-Factor runtimes like the JVM or the CLR Have a look at cat which runs on the CLR: http://www.cat-language.com/intro.html . -- Live Security Virtual Conference Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ ___ Factor-talk mailing list Factor-talk@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/factor-talk -- Live Security Virtual Conference Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/___ Factor-talk mailing list Factor-talk@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/factor-talk -- Live Security Virtual Conference Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/___ Factor-talk mailing list Factor-talk@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/factor-talk
Re: [Factor-talk] Is there a Factor.js ?
Very well put, Mike. That's kind of why I've recently been attracted to Clojure. I don't have a very large investment of mental capital in Java or .NET, but those underpinnings certainly help build and expand the Clojure universe. After many years of having my brain warped by Forth (in a good way, I think), Factor just feels more right to me. But I admit I'm envious of Clojure's greater buzz and mind share. There are several excellent Clojure books - I wish Factor had at least one. Also, and this may sound really petty, but I wish Factor had been named differently - perhaps Faktor. I'm sure everyone here has experienced the frustration of trying to google Factor to find more information! Forth has the same problem. By naming it Clojure instead of Closure, Rich Hickey saved everyone a lot of aggravation. BTW, I've enjoyed following your efforts to understand the deep internals of Factor. Most of it is way over my head, but your questions and the thoughtful responses by Joe, John, Doug and Alex (hopefully I didn't leave anyone out) are helping to reinforce the mental scaffolding I'm building in my attempts to fully grok Factor. --John On Thu, Aug 23, 2012 at 7:45 AM, Michael Clagett mclag...@hotmail.comwrote: John -- Couldn't resist chiming in here. Of course Factor is portable, open source, and reliable. These are three of its strongest attributes. But the DLL version of it nothwithstanding, it is such an attractive language from a language standpoint that it leads one to want to have it where one is already working -- not just as an alternative. Thus the genesis of my (admittedly expansive) vision of integrating it into the environment I am building. Chances are I'll die before that ever comes to anything. But a more general benefit to the wider community would be eventually to have Factor integrated into some of the development environments that folks are already using on a day-in, day-out. That probably means a reasonably smooth integration with non-Factor runtimes like the JVM or the CLR and the code and libraries that sit on top of them, as well as programming environments like Eclipse and VisualStudio. Now I understand how wild-eyed and future this is. The language after all is a labor of love from a dedicated community that just happens to have a lot of good taste, but finite resources. And it hasn't even reached 1.0 maturity yet, so there's much to be done before such a wider vision materializes. So please do not misunderstand; this is not in any way a complaint or criticism -- nor even a request, because, you know, that's just not realistic. It is, however, a hope. That some day this fabulous language can be brought into mainstream environments where it's power can be put to really widespread use. Granted, I'm an enterprise development manager by trade during the day, so maybe this is just my bias. But wishing and hoping costs nothing. Best, Mike -- From: mrj...@gmail.com Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2012 21:04:00 -0700 To: factor-talk@lists.sourceforge.net Subject: Re: [Factor-talk] Is there a Factor.js ? There is a Factor Playground implemented in Javascript: http://personal.inet.fi/koti/egaga/jsfactor/playground.html It does not work with Factor's extensive library, however. Its not worth getting into a philosophical discussion about Javascript, but I would note that Factor is portable (linux, mac, windows), open source (bsd license), and reliable (extensive library and test suites). Best, John. On Wed, Aug 22, 2012 at 7:44 PM, H.C. Chen hcchen5...@gmail.com wrote: I tried to find factor.js for a while, nothing found so far. What in my mind is the Processing programming language established on JavaScript. Include Processing.js into your .html turns it into processing aware. script src=processing-1.3.6.js /script Refer to http://processingjs.org/ We have Forth.js too. It run under Windows DOS box JScript interpreter. Like this: cscript.exe jeforth.js OK To work in a shell is very useful. The reason I like anything.JS is the portability, open source, and reliable. -- Live Security Virtual Conference Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ ___ Factor-talk mailing list Factor-talk@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/factor-talk -- Live Security Virtual Conference Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond
Re: [Factor-talk] Is there a Factor.js ?
On Thu, Aug 23, 2012 at 6:27 PM, John Porubek jporu...@gmail.com wrote: trying to google Factor I have found it effective to use factor stack or factor language to avoid the typical incorrect results. factor word always seemed to bring up Bill O'Reilly's news show fwiw. -- Live Security Virtual Conference Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ ___ Factor-talk mailing list Factor-talk@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/factor-talk
Re: [Factor-talk] Is there a Factor.js ?
On Thu, Aug 23, 2012 at 11:46 AM, Michael Clagett mclag...@hotmail.com wrote: That, I would guess, is a result of its being implemented in C#. But what you lose at that point is the ability for the language to be used outside of the CLR and the extreme portability of something like Factor. What I'm envisioning is something closer to Microsoft's C++, which now has built-in support for generating MSIL, while still remaining completely viable on a native code platform. Such a capability for Factor (with the ability to generate JVM byte code as well) would allow Factor to act as a DSL layer above real-world code bases that organizations are always going to be using for a significant portion of their development. The JVM and CLR both have native code interfaces a Factor bridge could take advantage of. I think that would be a more realistic avenue toward interfacing with those platforms than rearchitecting Factor to target the JVM or CLR directly. -Joe -- Live Security Virtual Conference Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ ___ Factor-talk mailing list Factor-talk@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/factor-talk
Re: [Factor-talk] Is there a Factor.js ?
Yes. In fact that is how I'm intending to target the CLR and JVM in my own environment -- whether I successfully implement the ability to use Factor (the language) inside my platform or not. I was envisioning something like a combination of direct byte code generation (either MSIL or JVM byte code) together with whatever programmatic facilities are necessary for fixing up metadata tokens, invoking the respective jit compilers and the like. This could just as easily be done from the existing Factor environment as any custom environment I manage to construct and in a perfect world Factor code created in either environment would compile and execute in the other just fine. You Factor guru types might be scratching your heads and wondering why on earth I would want to reproduce the factor booting mechanism in my own environment and build it on top of my own foundations instead of just using what Slava has already put so much work into. The answer is that while I'm not sure that this will be necessary (i might be able to get away with the DLL-ized version of Factor itself; I'm in major research mode about it as we speak), I suspect I may need to roll my own in order to integrate at as deep a level as I need with other language facilities I already have in place. That's as much as I'm going to say about it, because I don't want to commandeer the FactorCode.org airwaves to talk about my stuff. But whatever I end up doing, I do expect to give back to the community in the way of documentation of what I learn along the way. Sent from my iPhone On Aug 23, 2012, at 1:42 PM, Joe Groff arc...@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, Aug 23, 2012 at 11:46 AM, Michael Clagett mclag...@hotmail.com wrote: That, I would guess, is a result of its being implemented in C#. But what you lose at that point is the ability for the language to be used outside of the CLR and the extreme portability of something like Factor. What I'm envisioning is something closer to Microsoft's C++, which now has built-in support for generating MSIL, while still remaining completely viable on a native code platform. Such a capability for Factor (with the ability to generate JVM byte code as well) would allow Factor to act as a DSL layer above real-world code bases that organizations are always going to be using for a significant portion of their development. The JVM and CLR both have native code interfaces a Factor bridge could take advantage of. I think that would be a more realistic avenue toward interfacing with those platforms than rearchitecting Factor to target the JVM or CLR directly. -Joe -- Live Security Virtual Conference Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ ___ Factor-talk mailing list Factor-talk@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/factor-talk -- Live Security Virtual Conference Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ ___ Factor-talk mailing list Factor-talk@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/factor-talk
Re: [Factor-talk] Is there a Factor.js ?
Hi Michael, I'm enjoying these conversations and your investigations :) Regarding Javascript, I can see the benefit of a Factor-like language. It might be that using Clojure and Clojurescript as an analogy would be a good one. Obviously some parts may be harder to get compatible when bootstrapping from various JS engines, similar to trying to bootstrap from JVM or CLR. Language interoperability is a nice concept when you can get it working well. Can't wait to here more about your ideas as they develop... Best, John. On Thu, Aug 23, 2012 at 11:50 AM, Michael Clagett mclag...@hotmail.comwrote: Yes. In fact that is how I'm intending to target the CLR and JVM in my own environment -- whether I successfully implement the ability to use Factor (the language) inside my platform or not. I was envisioning something like a combination of direct byte code generation (either MSIL or JVM byte code) together with whatever programmatic facilities are necessary for fixing up metadata tokens, invoking the respective jit compilers and the like. This could just as easily be done from the existing Factor environment as any custom environment I manage to construct and in a perfect world Factor code created in either environment would compile and execute in the other just fine. You Factor guru types might be scratching your heads and wondering why on earth I would want to reproduce the factor booting mechanism in my own environment and build it on top of my own foundations instead of just using what Slava has already put so much work into. The answer is that while I'm not sure that this will be necessary (i might be able to get away with the DLL-ized version of Factor itself; I'm in major research mode about it as we speak), I suspect I may need to roll my own in order to integrate at as deep a level as I need with other language facilities I already have in place. That's as much as I'm going to say about it, because I don't want to commandeer the FactorCode.org airwaves to talk about my stuff. But whatever I end up doing, I do expect to give back to the community in the way of documentation of what I learn along the way. Sent from my iPhone On Aug 23, 2012, at 1:42 PM, Joe Groff arc...@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, Aug 23, 2012 at 11:46 AM, Michael Clagett mclag...@hotmail.com wrote: That, I would guess, is a result of its being implemented in C#. But what you lose at that point is the ability for the language to be used outside of the CLR and the extreme portability of something like Factor. What I'm envisioning is something closer to Microsoft's C++, which now has built-in support for generating MSIL, while still remaining completely viable on a native code platform. Such a capability for Factor (with the ability to generate JVM byte code as well) would allow Factor to act as a DSL layer above real-world code bases that organizations are always going to be using for a significant portion of their development. The JVM and CLR both have native code interfaces a Factor bridge could take advantage of. I think that would be a more realistic avenue toward interfacing with those platforms than rearchitecting Factor to target the JVM or CLR directly. -Joe -- Live Security Virtual Conference Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ ___ Factor-talk mailing list Factor-talk@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/factor-talk -- Live Security Virtual Conference Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ ___ Factor-talk mailing list Factor-talk@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/factor-talk -- Live Security Virtual Conference Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/___ Factor-talk mailing list Factor-talk@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/factor-talk
[Factor-talk] Is there a Factor.js ?
I tried to find factor.js for a while, nothing found so far. What in my mind is the Processing programming language established on JavaScript. Include Processing.js into your .html turns it into processing aware. script src=processing-1.3.6.js /script Refer to http://processingjs.org/ We have Forth.js too. It run under Windows DOS box JScript interpreter. Like this: cscript.exe jeforth.js OK To work in a shell is very useful. The reason I like anything.JS is the portability, open source, and reliable. -- Live Security Virtual Conference Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/___ Factor-talk mailing list Factor-talk@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/factor-talk
Re: [Factor-talk] Is there a Factor.js ?
There is a Factor Playground implemented in Javascript: http://personal.inet.fi/koti/egaga/jsfactor/playground.html It does not work with Factor's extensive library, however. Its not worth getting into a philosophical discussion about Javascript, but I would note that Factor is portable (linux, mac, windows), open source (bsd license), and reliable (extensive library and test suites). Best, John. On Wed, Aug 22, 2012 at 7:44 PM, H.C. Chen hcchen5...@gmail.com wrote: I tried to find factor.js for a while, nothing found so far. What in my mind is the Processing programming language established on JavaScript. Include Processing.js into your .html turns it into processing aware. script src=processing-1.3.6.js /script Refer to http://processingjs.org/ We have Forth.js too. It run under Windows DOS box JScript interpreter. Like this: cscript.exe jeforth.js OK To work in a shell is very useful. The reason I like anything.JS is the portability, open source, and reliable. -- Live Security Virtual Conference Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ ___ Factor-talk mailing list Factor-talk@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/factor-talk -- Live Security Virtual Conference Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/___ Factor-talk mailing list Factor-talk@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/factor-talk
Re: [Factor-talk] Is there a Factor.js ?
There also was fjsc. Not sure if it still works but the source is in the repository somewhere: http://www.bluishcoder.co.nz/2006/12/cross-domain-json-with-fjsc.html http://www.bluishcoder.co.nz/2006/12/continuations-added-to-fjsc.html http://www.bluishcoder.co.nz/2006/12/factor-to-javascript-compiler-updates.html http://www.bluishcoder.co.nz/2006/12/compiling-factor-to-javascript.html -- http://www.bluishcoder.co.nz -- Live Security Virtual Conference Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ ___ Factor-talk mailing list Factor-talk@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/factor-talk
