[FairfieldLife] Subconscious saMyama-like control of sound?

2005-10-31 Thread cardemaister

Don't know whether this anecdote is true, but:
B.B.King once asked Hendrix something like:
"Where do all these sounds [of his Strat,
and stuff] come from?" Hendrix had replied:
"I don't know!"
Perhaps sometime in the 80's or 90's, Mike
Bloomfield, or some such guy, told on a 
TV documentary, that he still hasn't figured
out how Hendrix created some of the weird
sounds without that much effect gadgetry
(just Octavia, fuzz-box and wah-wah, in
addition to creative use of feed-back?).
I've often thought if it was possible that 
Jimi's intensive emotions during playing
somehow could "distort" the sounds without
his conscious effort to do so... naah!





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[FairfieldLife] Re: Fwd: Hey, Ron, Do me a favor

2005-10-31 Thread at_man_and_brahman
Anon,

Don't be so hard on FFL. It's a tremendous dump.

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anonymousff <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> don't spam us, we are not a dump.
> 
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ron F <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > Note: forwarded message attached.
> > 
> >   Hey Ron,
> >   Please post this message to all Lists.
> >  
> >    
>  Jason
> >  
> > ---OriginalMessage--
> >   Deepavali - the Festival of Lights
> >   
> >   India is a land of festivals where you will see at least one 
> major festival each
> > month. Deepavali (or Diwali) which literally means "rows of lamps" 
> is one of the
> > four main festivals of India. Throughout the world all Hindus 
> celebrate Deepavali or
> > Diwali with great pomp and enthusiasm.
> > 
> >   The celebration of Diwali lasts six days, beginning on the 12th 
> day of the month
> > of Kartik (as per the North Indian lunar calendar). The day before 
> Diwali, in order
> > to evoke the grace of God, women fast. It is not that God wants 
> you to go hungry or
> > takes pleasure in your suffering - the principle is that you gain 
> only by giving up.
> > That evening, devotees worship Gomata (the cow) and her calf and 
> feed them special
> > food. Women pray for the welfare of the entire family. This holy 
> day is called
> > Vasubaras. 
> > 
> >   The first official day of Diwali falls on the 13th of Kartik. 
> People set about
> > cleaning houses and shops, and decorating doorsteps and courtyards 
> with rangoli or
> > multi-coloured designs. They purchase gold ornaments, new vessels, 
> clothes, and
> > other such items. Devotees arise early in the morning before 
> sunrise and take oil
> > baths. If possible, they wear new clothes. In the evening, people 
> worship coins
> > representing wealth. Houses and courtyards glow from the lights, 
> and families
> > decorate with lanterns. This day of celebration is called 
> Dhantrayodashi or
> > Dhanteras. 
> > 
> >   The second day is called Naraka Chaturdashi. People take an oil 
> bath in the early
> > morning and then in the night they light lamps and burn 
> firecrackers. People visit
> > their relatives and friends, exchanging love and sweets. 
> > 
> >   On the third day, people worship Lakshmi, the Goddess of wealth. 
> People decorate
> > their houses with lit lamps and lanterns to welcome Lakshmi to 
> their home and
> > hearts. On this day businessmen close old accounts and open new 
> accounts. The earth
> > is lit up by lamps and the skies are coloured by the multi-hued 
> lights of fireworks.
> > 
> > 
> >   In North India, the Govardhana Puja occurs on the fourth day of 
> Diwali. Devotees
> > in the North build hillocks made of cow dung, symbolising 
> Govardhana, and decorate
> > and worship them. North Indians observe this day as Annakoot, or 
> the mountain of
> > food.
> > 
> >   The fifth day of the festival called Bhaiyya Dooj celebrates 
> unique and fun
> > customs. Every man dines in his sister's house, and, in return, 
> presents her with
> > gifts. North India calls it Yama Dwitiya. Thousands of brothers 
> and sisters join
> > hands and have a sacred bath in the river Yamuna.
> > 
> > The Legends 
> > Dhanteras 
> > The scriptures mention the divinity called Dhanvantari emerging 
> from the churning of
> > the ocean with a kalash (pot) filled with Amrit (ambrosia). Due to 
> the fact that
> > Dhanvantari, who revealed the science of Ayurveda to the world, 
> first manifested on
> > this day, all over India, doctors following the Ayurvedic system 
> of medicine
> > organise joyful celebrations of the annual Dhanvantari festival. 
> > 
> >   Naraka Chaturdashi
> >   There is a legend about a king of Prag-Jyotishpur, named 
> Narakasura. He was a
> > powerful king who misused power to harass his subjects. Sri 
> Krishna destroyed this
> > oppressive asura king on this day. Unjustly imprisoned people 
> celebrated their
> > freedom with friends and family. The citizens celebrated 
> deliverance from
> > Narkasura's reign by lighting lamps.
> > 
> >   Sri Rama
> >   Deepavali falls on a no-moon day - in fact the darkest day of 
> the year. The
> > illuminations and fireworks, joy and festivities, are to signify 
> the victory of
> > divine forces over the powers of darkness. On Deepavali day, 
> triumphant Sri Rama is
> > said to have returned to Ayodhya after defeating Ravana, the asura 
> king of Lanka.
> > 
> >   Goddess Lakshmi Devi The Puranas say that it was on this day 
> that Goddess Lakshmi,
> > who emerged from the churning of the ocean of milk, married Lord 
> Vishnu, the
> > repository of all divine qualities. 
> > 
> >   Govardhana Puja
> >   In order to shelter the gopis and gopas and their cows from the 
> torrential rains
> > sent by Indra, Krishna lifted a hill near Mathura called 
> Govardhana with his finger
> > and sheltered all the p

[FairfieldLife] Re: Fwd: Hey, Ron, Do me a favor

2005-10-31 Thread anonymousff
don't spam us, we are not a dump.

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ron F <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Note: forwarded message attached.
> 
>   Hey Ron,
>   Please post this message to all Lists.
>  
>    
 Jason
>  
> ---OriginalMessage--
>   Deepavali - the Festival of Lights
>   
>   India is a land of festivals where you will see at least one 
major festival each
> month. Deepavali (or Diwali) which literally means "rows of lamps" 
is one of the
> four main festivals of India. Throughout the world all Hindus 
celebrate Deepavali or
> Diwali with great pomp and enthusiasm.
> 
>   The celebration of Diwali lasts six days, beginning on the 12th 
day of the month
> of Kartik (as per the North Indian lunar calendar). The day before 
Diwali, in order
> to evoke the grace of God, women fast. It is not that God wants 
you to go hungry or
> takes pleasure in your suffering - the principle is that you gain 
only by giving up.
> That evening, devotees worship Gomata (the cow) and her calf and 
feed them special
> food. Women pray for the welfare of the entire family. This holy 
day is called
> Vasubaras. 
> 
>   The first official day of Diwali falls on the 13th of Kartik. 
People set about
> cleaning houses and shops, and decorating doorsteps and courtyards 
with rangoli or
> multi-coloured designs. They purchase gold ornaments, new vessels, 
clothes, and
> other such items. Devotees arise early in the morning before 
sunrise and take oil
> baths. If possible, they wear new clothes. In the evening, people 
worship coins
> representing wealth. Houses and courtyards glow from the lights, 
and families
> decorate with lanterns. This day of celebration is called 
Dhantrayodashi or
> Dhanteras. 
> 
>   The second day is called Naraka Chaturdashi. People take an oil 
bath in the early
> morning and then in the night they light lamps and burn 
firecrackers. People visit
> their relatives and friends, exchanging love and sweets. 
> 
>   On the third day, people worship Lakshmi, the Goddess of wealth. 
People decorate
> their houses with lit lamps and lanterns to welcome Lakshmi to 
their home and
> hearts. On this day businessmen close old accounts and open new 
accounts. The earth
> is lit up by lamps and the skies are coloured by the multi-hued 
lights of fireworks.
> 
> 
>   In North India, the Govardhana Puja occurs on the fourth day of 
Diwali. Devotees
> in the North build hillocks made of cow dung, symbolising 
Govardhana, and decorate
> and worship them. North Indians observe this day as Annakoot, or 
the mountain of
> food.
> 
>   The fifth day of the festival called Bhaiyya Dooj celebrates 
unique and fun
> customs. Every man dines in his sister's house, and, in return, 
presents her with
> gifts. North India calls it Yama Dwitiya. Thousands of brothers 
and sisters join
> hands and have a sacred bath in the river Yamuna.
> 
> The Legends 
> Dhanteras 
> The scriptures mention the divinity called Dhanvantari emerging 
from the churning of
> the ocean with a kalash (pot) filled with Amrit (ambrosia). Due to 
the fact that
> Dhanvantari, who revealed the science of Ayurveda to the world, 
first manifested on
> this day, all over India, doctors following the Ayurvedic system 
of medicine
> organise joyful celebrations of the annual Dhanvantari festival. 
> 
>   Naraka Chaturdashi
>   There is a legend about a king of Prag-Jyotishpur, named 
Narakasura. He was a
> powerful king who misused power to harass his subjects. Sri 
Krishna destroyed this
> oppressive asura king on this day. Unjustly imprisoned people 
celebrated their
> freedom with friends and family. The citizens celebrated 
deliverance from
> Narkasura's reign by lighting lamps.
> 
>   Sri Rama
>   Deepavali falls on a no-moon day - in fact the darkest day of 
the year. The
> illuminations and fireworks, joy and festivities, are to signify 
the victory of
> divine forces over the powers of darkness. On Deepavali day, 
triumphant Sri Rama is
> said to have returned to Ayodhya after defeating Ravana, the asura 
king of Lanka.
> 
>   Goddess Lakshmi Devi The Puranas say that it was on this day 
that Goddess Lakshmi,
> who emerged from the churning of the ocean of milk, married Lord 
Vishnu, the
> repository of all divine qualities. 
> 
>   Govardhana Puja
>   In order to shelter the gopis and gopas and their cows from the 
torrential rains
> sent by Indra, Krishna lifted a hill near Mathura called 
Govardhana with his finger
> and sheltered all the people for a period of seven days under it. 
By then Indra saw
> Krishna's greatness and asked him for forgiveness.
> 
>   Bhaiyya Dooj 
>   The river Yamuna and Yama the God of Death were brother and 
sister. As they grew
> up they went their different ways. On this day Yama supposedly 
visited his sister
> Yamuna, who in her joy at seeing her brother after such a long 
interlude set up a
> fe

[FairfieldLife] Fwd: Hey, Ron, Do me a favor

2005-10-31 Thread Ron F
Note: forwarded message attached.

  Hey Ron,
  Please post this message to all Lists.
 
    Jason
 
---OriginalMessage--
  Deepavali - the Festival of Lights
  
  India is a land of festivals where you will see at least one major festival 
each
month. Deepavali (or Diwali) which literally means "rows of lamps" is one of the
four main festivals of India. Throughout the world all Hindus celebrate 
Deepavali or
Diwali with great pomp and enthusiasm.

  The celebration of Diwali lasts six days, beginning on the 12th day of the 
month
of Kartik (as per the North Indian lunar calendar). The day before Diwali, in 
order
to evoke the grace of God, women fast. It is not that God wants you to go 
hungry or
takes pleasure in your suffering - the principle is that you gain only by 
giving up.
That evening, devotees worship Gomata (the cow) and her calf and feed them 
special
food. Women pray for the welfare of the entire family. This holy day is called
Vasubaras. 

  The first official day of Diwali falls on the 13th of Kartik. People set about
cleaning houses and shops, and decorating doorsteps and courtyards with rangoli 
or
multi-coloured designs. They purchase gold ornaments, new vessels, clothes, and
other such items. Devotees arise early in the morning before sunrise and take 
oil
baths. If possible, they wear new clothes. In the evening, people worship coins
representing wealth. Houses and courtyards glow from the lights, and families
decorate with lanterns. This day of celebration is called Dhantrayodashi or
Dhanteras. 

  The second day is called Naraka Chaturdashi. People take an oil bath in the 
early
morning and then in the night they light lamps and burn firecrackers. People 
visit
their relatives and friends, exchanging love and sweets. 

  On the third day, people worship Lakshmi, the Goddess of wealth. People 
decorate
their houses with lit lamps and lanterns to welcome Lakshmi to their home and
hearts. On this day businessmen close old accounts and open new accounts. The 
earth
is lit up by lamps and the skies are coloured by the multi-hued lights of 
fireworks.


  In North India, the Govardhana Puja occurs on the fourth day of Diwali. 
Devotees
in the North build hillocks made of cow dung, symbolising Govardhana, and 
decorate
and worship them. North Indians observe this day as Annakoot, or the mountain of
food.

  The fifth day of the festival called Bhaiyya Dooj celebrates unique and fun
customs. Every man dines in his sister's house, and, in return, presents her 
with
gifts. North India calls it Yama Dwitiya. Thousands of brothers and sisters join
hands and have a sacred bath in the river Yamuna.

The Legends 
Dhanteras 
The scriptures mention the divinity called Dhanvantari emerging from the 
churning of
the ocean with a kalash (pot) filled with Amrit (ambrosia). Due to the fact that
Dhanvantari, who revealed the science of Ayurveda to the world, first 
manifested on
this day, all over India, doctors following the Ayurvedic system of medicine
organise joyful celebrations of the annual Dhanvantari festival. 

  Naraka Chaturdashi
  There is a legend about a king of Prag-Jyotishpur, named Narakasura. He was a
powerful king who misused power to harass his subjects. Sri Krishna destroyed 
this
oppressive asura king on this day. Unjustly imprisoned people celebrated their
freedom with friends and family. The citizens celebrated deliverance from
Narkasura's reign by lighting lamps.

  Sri Rama
  Deepavali falls on a no-moon day - in fact the darkest day of the year. The
illuminations and fireworks, joy and festivities, are to signify the victory of
divine forces over the powers of darkness. On Deepavali day, triumphant Sri 
Rama is
said to have returned to Ayodhya after defeating Ravana, the asura king of 
Lanka.

  Goddess Lakshmi Devi The Puranas say that it was on this day that Goddess 
Lakshmi,
who emerged from the churning of the ocean of milk, married Lord Vishnu, the
repository of all divine qualities. 

  Govardhana Puja
  In order to shelter the gopis and gopas and their cows from the torrential 
rains
sent by Indra, Krishna lifted a hill near Mathura called Govardhana with his 
finger
and sheltered all the people for a period of seven days under it. By then Indra 
saw
Krishna's greatness and asked him for forgiveness.

  Bhaiyya Dooj 
  The river Yamuna and Yama the God of Death were brother and sister. As they 
grew
up they went their different ways. On this day Yama supposedly visited his 
sister
Yamuna, who in her joy at seeing her brother after such a long interlude set up 
a
feast for him. Pleased, Yama granted her a boon. He declared that every man that
receives a tilak or vermilion mark on the forehead from his sister and presents 
her
with lovely gifts on this day would attain higher worlds. 

  The message of Deepavali The traditional name of India is Bharata and Indians 

[FairfieldLife] Re: US Constitution

2005-10-31 Thread shempmcgurk
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "jim_flanegin" 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> wrote:
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Jason Spock 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> > wrote:
> > >
> > >  
> > >   Here is a speech and Link,
> > >  
> > > http://www.fuckthesouth.com
> > >  
> > > ---OriginalMessage--
> > > From: "Rick Archer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>   
> > > Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2005 14:31:41 -0600 
> > > Subject: [FairfieldLife] US Constitution 
> > > 
> > >   Another question from a friend:
> > > 
> > >   a few years ago Hagelin gave a commencement speech at 
MSAE 
> > about how corrupt the u.s. constitution is - do you or anyone 
> > remember that speech?
> > >  
> > Wow! "Hagelin" needs to drink more vata tea! ;)
> 
> It's hard to imagine how the Constitution could
> be portrayed as "corrupt," since it's just a piece
> of paper.  I wonder if he might have been saying
> the U.S. *Congress* was corrupt, and Rick's friend
> just got the C-words confused.


I suspect Hagelin would have been directly referring to the U.S. 
Constitution, Judy.  And the reason is because it would have been in 
the context of what MMY was talking about at that time, which was 
constitutions of man and nature. That, coupled with the fact that 
the U.S. is deemed as corrupt in all shapes and forms by MMY, and 
one could see how Hagelin very well could have referred to the U.S. 
Constitution in such a manner.

Of course, I agree with you that it's hard to see how the U.S. 
Constitution could be portrayed as corrupt.
>







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[FairfieldLife] Interesting group

2005-10-31 Thread johnlasher20002000
meditation_practice_now

is an interesting group which discusses a variety of meditation
practices including TM Sidhis, centering prayer, etc





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[FairfieldLife] TM Introduction

2005-10-31 Thread Rick Archer
Title: TM Introduction





*Subject:* TM Introduction
 
 Dr. Director of the TM Peace Palace Project:
 
I hardly know how to begin other than to express my extreme disappointment
and disillusionment over the introduction to the practice of TM and the
potential of a Peace Palace being built here in our city.
 
Your presentation was something right out of an L Ron Hubbard Dianetics
seminar.
 
I have had the TM web sight book marked quite some time. I have read about
the meditative benefits and life changing opportunities on the web site, in
many periodicals, most recently an article on meditation in my latest Yoga
Journal. I have been reading about the quest that David Lynch has taken up
and had thought it most noble.
 
The total lack of altruism, and I believe misrepresentation, of your
promotion of the TM practice and the Peace Palace is outrageously incredible
and severely naïve for a group that promotes "Enlightenment". I believe you
will find our city much more enlightened than your group took our community
for.
 
I speak only for myself and Terri – but we have achieved a level of
enlightenment through our separate searching's and readings and life choices
and in our coming together to share and explore and meditate through many
outlets – that I am quite embarrassed by your elementary attempt to reach
out to the community under the guise of 'science meets enlightenment and
world peace' at the low, low cost of $2500.
 
There are other true Vedic teachers and others of many followings and
beliefs, who teach, train mentor and guide to be found in the world who do
so out of an inner desire to share and to love and to help and all they
require in return is the possibility and potential of those that seek them
and that come after.
 
I find it hard to express succinctly exactly how I feel.
 
I will be commenting on the TM web site and I will write to the editor of my
Yoga Journal and pass on my experience with this introduction to the TM
practice, and I will pass on to anyone who expresses an interest in the
Peace Palace that, yes, it may be coming and may be available to
anyone who is willing to pay. 
 
REPLY:
 

e-Conversation with someone who came to my intro last night.  Please don't forward to anyone without first removing my name and address.  I've changed the names to protect the innocent. 

Hi Alice,
 
 Thanks for coming to the intro and for your candid if somewhat searing critique of our programs and presentation.  I was going to call you to get your feedback to see if it concurred with my intuition of your reception - that you (and Terri) were "turned off" by the price of instruction--$2500.  
 
Is that correct?  I'm sorry that I wasn't able to overcome that objection and it's a BIG objection, the dichotomy between what's commonly taken for spirituality and materialism.  This has even divided people in our organization--I know several TM teachers who have refused to teach at this rate.  I'm curious to know at what price point your objection would drop and you would begin the practice, as you indicate that you think it would be good to learn the Transcendental Meditation technique, with its "meditative benefits and life changing opportunities".
 
Thanks for taking the time to write this fairly long and thoughtful e-mail.  I think we can respect each other's opinions and feelings--and if I can't "convert" you--that we can nevertheless, 'agree to disagree' (excuse the cliche') and maybe yet become friends?  Ultimately we want the same things for ourselves, our families and even our country, don't we?  Perfect health, peace, prosperity, happiness, and the 24 hour bliss of Brahman (Unity) Consciousness?  In that respect are we not comrades rather than adversaries?
 
As I have never been to one, I'll have to take your word for the Dianetics thing and take it as a complement?  And I agree that this city is a wonderful place with a lot of highly intelligent and creative people, but I'll disagree with your use of the term "enlightened," reserving that for a specific state of human consciousness that increasingly can be verified by its physiological correlates--brain functioning primarily but many others as well.  The terms enlightened and enlightenment, like the co-opting of mantra and pundit, have come to mean something much less than their original meanings.  So when I use the term I will capitalize it and use it to mean one or all of the 5th thru 7th states that I presented last night--Cosmic, God and Unity Consciousness.  To try to improve our communications (assuming if I may, that we will hopefully continue them), I will tell you that my understanding of Cosmic Consciousness is that this is the state somewhat commonly referred to as Nirvana, i.e., that there are two more states of consciousness beyond that.
 
The sword of materiality cuts both ways, Alice, and from my side of this apparent line you've drawn between us in the virtual sand of cyberspace, I can reflect the charge of materialism back to yo

[FairfieldLife] Re: Peer Reviewed Journals -- the Good, Bad and the Ugly (PS)

2005-10-31 Thread sparaig
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, off_world_beings 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, off_world_beings 
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> > [...]
> > > > ANd Keith has written about how things have changed since he 
> first 
> > > > started doing researchon TM 35 years ago.>>
> > > 
> > > And he did so LONG before Stephen Hawkings stated last year 
that 
> his 
> > > theory from the 1960's on black holes may be incorrect, and may 
> not 
> > > exist after all. This is a MUCH bigger flaw, and his whole 
> career 
> > > was built on it. He is still treated like God by physicists and 
> > > laymen alike.
> > >
> > 
> > 
> > ??? When did Hawkings say that black holes may not exist?
> > 
> > He paid off a bet about a specific implication about black holes 
> that 
> > he now says is wrong. Just about everyone in physics and 
astronomy 
> is 
> > convinced that black holes exist.
> >
> 
> 
> About a year ago:
> 
> "After nearly 30 years of arguing that a black hole destroys 
> everything that falls into it, Stephen Hawking is saying he was 
> wrong. It seems that black holes may after all allow information 
> within them to escape. Hawking will present his latest finding at a 
> conference in Ireland next week.
> The about-turn might cost Hawking, a physicist at the University of 
> Cambridge, an encyclopaedia because of a bet he made in 1997. More 
> importantly, it might solve one of the long-standing puzzles in 
> modern physics, known as the black hole information paradox."
> http://www.newscientist.com/article.ns?id=dn6151
> 
> "The Hawking U-turn won John Preskill a book on baseball"
> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/3913145.stm
>

Just as I said. Hawking didn't say that black holes don't exist. He 
said he was wrong about them being perfect information-sinks.







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[FairfieldLife] Re: Peer Reviewed Journals -- the Good, Bad and the Ugly

2005-10-31 Thread sparaig
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "L B Shriver" 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "L B Shriver" 
> > [...]
> > > The nature of the "smoothing over" had to do with finding a 
> > justification for maintaining 
> > > the "twice as deep as sleep" epithet. As I mentioned above, 
this 
> > concept has been retained, 
> > > but on the basis of metastudies, not on the basis of a single 
measure 
> > as previously. 
> > > 
> > > L B S
> > >
> > 
> > The concept has been defunct for years. Find mention of O2 
consumption 
> > in any current research or any current "talking points" 
scientific 
> > charts.
> 
> 
> 
> I did not say that "02" had been retained. What WAS retained 
was "state of rest twice as 
> deep as sleep", only now as indicated by metastudies, not by one 
single, decisive measure.
> 
> L B S
>

Metastudies of what parameters?






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[FairfieldLife] Re: The Experience of a Conscious Self

2005-10-31 Thread jim_flanegin
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "jim_flanegin" 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> wrote:
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > I used to think that until I saw "Riding Giants" on
> > > satellite TV.  Mindbending.  The "Endless Summer"
> > > guys were riding pussy waves.  :-)
> > 
> > Yeah...right. Um, a pussy wave as you put it still carries a lot 
of 
> > power: I was on the beach a couple of winters here in nothern 
cal, 
> > boogie boarding during the storms. Once, two or three *inches* 
of 
> > water came up the beach so fast it knocked me off my feet. 
Another 
> > time, I got caught bending the wrong way in a tightening curl of 
a 
> > four foot wave and it nearly broke my back...But yeah, I like 
> > hyperbole too...And I'll look for Riding Giants. Laird is the 
man!
> 
> I understand about waves, and the power behind even
> a four-footer.  These guys ride forty-, fifty-, and
> sixty-footers.  It just defies the imagination.
>
Yep. Wouldn't even be caught dead on one of those monsters!





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[FairfieldLife] Re: Definition of a Libertarian

2005-10-31 Thread tazarmfune
> they 
> > are Aynn Rand Libertarians which in that case they are just 
plain 
> nuts.
> >
> 
> Why?  Please elaborate...
>

Not an elaboration, but an interesting article:

http://www.spunk.org/library/otherpol/critique/sp000859.txt






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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: MUM website, like Peter Sutphen

2005-10-31 Thread Peter
Not really, but it's not an issue that's come up a
lot.

--- off_world_beings <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> I have noticed that women have a hard time with
> humor that involves 
> death of someone close to them. Most men I know seem
> much more 
> flippant about it. (not saying one way or the other
> is good or bad). 
> Have you noticed this in your practice as a
> psychologist? 
> 
> OffWorld
> 
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> wrote:
> >
> > Hey Off, could you please not refer to me as
> having
> > passed away. It doesn't bother me, but my wife is
> an
> > occassional lurker and it creeps her out. I'd
> > appreciate it, thanks.
> > 
> > --- off_world_beings <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote:
> > 
> > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig"
> > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,
> > > off_world_beings 
> > > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,
> "sparaig"
> > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> > > > wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,
> > > off_world_beings 
> > > > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > MUM website, like Peter Sutphen, has
> passed
> > > away?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > Er, no?
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > http://www.mum.edu/
> > > > > >
> > > > > 
> > > > > It don't work.
> > > > > "The page cannot be displayed" message
> > > > >
> > > > 
> > > > Your web-browser appearsto be incompatible
> with
> > > the MUM website.
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > Works with 3 different webbrowsers on two
> > > different OS's for me.
> > > >>
> > > 
> > > It used to work just fine for me. IE on Windows.
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > >  Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> > > ~--> 
> > > Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups.
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> > > Yahoo! your home page
> > >
> >
>
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> > >
> >
>
---
> -~->
> > > 
> > > 
> > > To subscribe, send a message to:
> > > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > 
> > > Or go to: 
> > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/
> > > and click 'Join This Group!' 
> > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > > 
> > > 
> > > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > 
> > >  
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > __ 
> > Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005 
> > http://mail.yahoo.com
> >
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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>  
> 
> 
> 




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[FairfieldLife] Re: Definition of a Libertarian

2005-10-31 Thread shempmcgurk
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> shempmcgurk wrote:
> 
> >A conservative who likes porn
> >
> >  (Triumph the Insult Dog)
> >
> >  
> >
> The political science definition of a Libertarian is someone who is 
> socially liberal and economically conservative.  Unless, of course, 
they 
> are Aynn Rand Libertarians which in that case they are just plain 
nuts.
>

Why?  Please elaborate...






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[FairfieldLife] Re: The Experience of a Conscious Self

2005-10-31 Thread off_world_beings
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "jim_flanegin" 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> wrote:
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > I used to think that until I saw "Riding Giants" on
> > > satellite TV.  Mindbending.  The "Endless Summer"
> > > guys were riding pussy waves.  :-)
> > 
> > Yeah...right. Um, a pussy wave as you put it still carries a lot 
of 
> > power: I was on the beach a couple of winters here in nothern 
cal, 
> > boogie boarding during the storms. Once, two or three *inches* 
of 
> > water came up the beach so fast it knocked me off my feet. 
Another 
> > time, I got caught bending the wrong way in a tightening curl of 
a 
> > four foot wave and it nearly broke my back...But yeah, I like 
> > hyperbole too...And I'll look for Riding Giants. Laird is the 
man!
> 
> I understand about waves, and the power behind even
> a four-footer.  These guys ride forty-, fifty-, and
> sixty-footers.  It just defies the imagination.>>


They are looking for the 100
http://starbulletin.com/2001/07/13/news/story3.html







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[FairfieldLife] Re: The Experience of a Conscious Self

2005-10-31 Thread TurquoiseB
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "jim_flanegin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> wrote:
> >
> > I used to think that until I saw "Riding Giants" on
> > satellite TV.  Mindbending.  The "Endless Summer"
> > guys were riding pussy waves.  :-)
> 
> Yeah...right. Um, a pussy wave as you put it still carries a lot of 
> power: I was on the beach a couple of winters here in nothern cal, 
> boogie boarding during the storms. Once, two or three *inches* of 
> water came up the beach so fast it knocked me off my feet. Another 
> time, I got caught bending the wrong way in a tightening curl of a 
> four foot wave and it nearly broke my back...But yeah, I like 
> hyperbole too...And I'll look for Riding Giants. Laird is the man!

I understand about waves, and the power behind even
a four-footer.  These guys ride forty-, fifty-, and
sixty-footers.  It just defies the imagination.







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[FairfieldLife] Re: The Experience of a Conscious Self

2005-10-31 Thread jim_flanegin
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, off_world_beings 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "jim_flanegin" 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> wrote:
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, off_world_beings 
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> > wrote:
> > > Soounds great. I suspect I'll be dead from a heart attack or 
in a 
> > > looney bin from the rollercoaster ride before that happens to 
me. 
> > > Never was good at rollercoasters.
> > > 
> > > OffWorld
> > >
> > Geez- sounds a little extreme. Perhaps you can back off some of 
your 
> > practices to avoid such severe consequences.
> 
> 
> Only if I was afraid of extreme consequences, which I a not.
>
no problem.





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[FairfieldLife] Re: The Experience of a Conscious Self

2005-10-31 Thread jim_flanegin
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "jim_flanegin" 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> wrote:
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> > wrote:
> > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, off_world_beings 
> > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Some fortunate folks are able to just dump the intellect;
> > > > > others, like moi, have to fight it to the death using
> > > > > the intellect as a weapon against itself (thorn to remove
> > > > > a thorn).
> > > > 
> > > > Big Wave surfing will cure you of this problem.
> > > > http://tinyurl.com/bgmfh
> > > 
> > > If I'm not mistaken, this is the famous photo of 
> > > Laird Hamilton in the tube of the biggest wave 
> > > ever ridden.  Big wave surfing is amazing.  The
> > > waves are SO big that you cannot possibly paddle
> > > fast enough to catch one.  So the surfer works 
> > > with a team of support people on Ski-doos.  One
> > > of the Ski-doos drags the surfer behind him so 
> > > that he can catch the wave, and then that Ski-doo
> > > rider and up to three more wait to rush to help
> > > the surfer once he's wiped out.  You always wipe
> > > out when riding giants, and if someone isn't 
> > > there to fish you out, you die.  It's not a 
> > > sport for the timid.
> >
> > Have you seen Endless Summer Two? IMO best surfing movie ever 
made. 
> > Great cinematography and entertaining story.
> 
> I used to think that until I saw "Riding Giants" on
> satellite TV.  Mindbending.  The "Endless Summer"
> guys were riding pussy waves.  :-)
>
Yeah...right. Um, a pussy wave as you put it still carries a lot of 
power: I was on the beach a couple of winters here in nothern cal, 
boogie boarding during the storms. Once, two or three *inches* of 
water came up the beach so fast it knocked me off my feet. Another 
time, I got caught bending the wrong way in a tightening curl of a 
four foot wave and it nearly broke my back...But yeah, I like 
hyperbole too...And I'll look for Riding Giants. Laird is the man!






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[FairfieldLife] Re: MUM website, like Peter Sutphen

2005-10-31 Thread off_world_beings
I have noticed that women have a hard time with humor that involves 
death of someone close to them. Most men I know seem much more 
flippant about it. (not saying one way or the other is good or bad). 
Have you noticed this in your practice as a psychologist? 

OffWorld

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
>
> Hey Off, could you please not refer to me as having
> passed away. It doesn't bother me, but my wife is an
> occassional lurker and it creeps her out. I'd
> appreciate it, thanks.
> 
> --- off_world_beings <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig"
> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > >
> > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,
> > off_world_beings 
> > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig"
> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,
> > off_world_beings 
> > > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > MUM website, like Peter Sutphen, has passed
> > away?
> > > > > >
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > Er, no?
> > > > > 
> > > > > http://www.mum.edu/
> > > > >
> > > > 
> > > > It don't work.
> > > > "The page cannot be displayed" message
> > > >
> > > 
> > > Your web-browser appearsto be incompatible with
> > the MUM website.
> > > 
> > > 
> > > Works with 3 different webbrowsers on two
> > different OS's for me.
> > >>
> > 
> > It used to work just fine for me. IE on Windows.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> >  Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
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> > 
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> > 
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> > 
> >  
> > 
> > 
> > 
> 
> 
> 
>   
>   
> __ 
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> http://mail.yahoo.com
>






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[FairfieldLife] Re: The Experience of a Conscious Self

2005-10-31 Thread off_world_beings
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "jim_flanegin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, off_world_beings 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> wrote:
> > Soounds great. I suspect I'll be dead from a heart attack or in a 
> > looney bin from the rollercoaster ride before that happens to me. 
> > Never was good at rollercoasters.
> > 
> > OffWorld
> >
> Geez- sounds a little extreme. Perhaps you can back off some of your 
> practices to avoid such severe consequences.


Only if I was afraid of extreme consequences, which I a not.







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[FairfieldLife] Re: MUM website, like Peter Sutphen

2005-10-31 Thread off_world_beings
Creepy.

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
>
> Hey Off, could you please not refer to me as having
> passed away. It doesn't bother me, but my wife is an
> occassional lurker and it creeps her out. I'd
> appreciate it, thanks.
> 
> --- off_world_beings <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig"
> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > >
> > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,
> > off_world_beings 
> > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig"
> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,
> > off_world_beings 
> > > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > MUM website, like Peter Sutphen, has passed
> > away?
> > > > > >
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > Er, no?
> > > > > 
> > > > > http://www.mum.edu/
> > > > >
> > > > 
> > > > It don't work.
> > > > "The page cannot be displayed" message
> > > >
> > > 
> > > Your web-browser appearsto be incompatible with
> > the MUM website.
> > > 
> > > 
> > > Works with 3 different webbrowsers on two
> > different OS's for me.
> > >>
> > 
> > It used to work just fine for me. IE on Windows.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> >  Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
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> > Yahoo! your home page
> >
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> > 
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[FairfieldLife] Re: The Experience of a Conscious Self

2005-10-31 Thread jim_flanegin
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, off_world_beings <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
> Soounds great. I suspect I'll be dead from a heart attack or in a 
> looney bin from the rollercoaster ride before that happens to me. 
> Never was good at rollercoasters.
> 
> OffWorld
>
Geez- sounds a little extreme. Perhaps you can back off some of your 
practices to avoid such severe consequences.






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[FairfieldLife] Re: The Experience of a Conscious Self

2005-10-31 Thread off_world_beings
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "jim_flanegin" 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> wrote:
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> > wrote:
> > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, off_world_beings 
> > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Some fortunate folks are able to just dump the intellect;
> > > > > others, like moi, have to fight it to the death using
> > > > > the intellect as a weapon against itself (thorn to remove
> > > > > a thorn).
> > > > 
> > > > Big Wave surfing will cure you of this problem.
> > > > http://tinyurl.com/bgmfh
> > > 
> > > If I'm not mistaken, this is the famous photo of 
> > > Laird Hamilton in the tube of the biggest wave 
> > > ever ridden.  Big wave surfing is amazing.  The
> > > waves are SO big that you cannot possibly paddle
> > > fast enough to catch one.  So the surfer works 
> > > with a team of support people on Ski-doos.  One
> > > of the Ski-doos drags the surfer behind him so 
> > > that he can catch the wave, and then that Ski-doo
> > > rider and up to three more wait to rush to help
> > > the surfer once he's wiped out.  You always wipe
> > > out when riding giants, and if someone isn't 
> > > there to fish you out, you die.  It's not a 
> > > sport for the timid.
> >
> > Have you seen Endless Summer Two? IMO best surfing movie ever 
made. 
> > Great cinematography and entertaining story.
> 
> I used to think that until I saw "Riding Giants" on
> satellite TV.  Mindbending.  The "Endless Summer"
> guys were riding pussy waves.  :-)>>

'Riding Giants' is probably the best extreme sport documentary ever 
made. It changes your consciousness just by the sheer beauty of it 
and that perfect curve that Laird carves in impossible waves. Laird 
Hamilton is my hero (and I am not even a surfer)

OffWorld






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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: MUM website, like Peter Sutphen

2005-10-31 Thread Peter
Hey Off, could you please not refer to me as having
passed away. It doesn't bother me, but my wife is an
occassional lurker and it creeps her out. I'd
appreciate it, thanks.

--- off_world_beings <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig"
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,
> off_world_beings 
> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > >
> > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig"
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,
> off_world_beings 
> > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> > > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > MUM website, like Peter Sutphen, has passed
> away?
> > > > >
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > Er, no?
> > > > 
> > > > http://www.mum.edu/
> > > >
> > > 
> > > It don't work.
> > > "The page cannot be displayed" message
> > >
> > 
> > Your web-browser appearsto be incompatible with
> the MUM website.
> > 
> > 
> > Works with 3 different webbrowsers on two
> different OS's for me.
> >>
> 
> It used to work just fine for me. IE on Windows.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> 
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
>  
> 
> 
> 





__ 
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[FairfieldLife] Re: The Experience of a Conscious Self

2005-10-31 Thread off_world_beings
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "jim_flanegin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> wrote:
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, off_world_beings 
> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > >
> > > > Some fortunate folks are able to just dump the intellect;
> > > > others, like moi, have to fight it to the death using
> > > > the intellect as a weapon against itself (thorn to remove
> > > > a thorn).
> > > 
> > > Big Wave surfing will cure you of this problem.
> > > http://tinyurl.com/bgmfh
> > 
> > If I'm not mistaken, this is the famous photo of 
> > Laird Hamilton in the tube of the biggest wave 
> > ever ridden.  Big wave surfing is amazing.  The
> > waves are SO big that you cannot possibly paddle
> > fast enough to catch one.  So the surfer works 
> > with a team of support people on Ski-doos.  One
> > of the Ski-doos drags the surfer behind him so 
> > that he can catch the wave, and then that Ski-doo
> > rider and up to three more wait to rush to help
> > the surfer once he's wiped out.  You always wipe
> > out when riding giants, and if someone isn't 
> > there to fish you out, you die.  It's not a 
> > sport for the timid.
> >
> Have you seen Endless Summer Two? IMO best surfing movie ever 
made. 
> Great cinematography and entertaining story.>>

I have seen it. Very good.
But you HAVE to see "Riding Giants" , more recent. Best surfing 
movie ever made. Incredible.







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[FairfieldLife] Re: MUM website, like Peter Sutphen

2005-10-31 Thread off_world_beings
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, off_world_beings 
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> wrote:
> > >
> > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, off_world_beings 
> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > MUM website, like Peter Sutphen, has passed away?
> > > >
> > > 
> > > 
> > > Er, no?
> > > 
> > > http://www.mum.edu/
> > >
> > 
> > It don't work.
> > "The page cannot be displayed" message
> >
> 
> Your web-browser appearsto be incompatible with the MUM website.
> 
> 
> Works with 3 different webbrowsers on two different OS's for me.
>>

It used to work just fine for me. IE on Windows.






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[FairfieldLife] Re: The Experience of a Conscious Self/now Laird Hamilton

2005-10-31 Thread off_world_beings
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, off_world_beings 
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > > Some fortunate folks are able to just dump the intellect;
> > > others, like moi, have to fight it to the death using
> > > the intellect as a weapon against itself (thorn to remove
> > > a thorn).
> > 
> > Big Wave surfing will cure you of this problem.
> > http://tinyurl.com/bgmfh
> 
> If I'm not mistaken, this is the famous photo of 
> Laird Hamilton in the tube of the biggest wave 
> ever ridden.  Big wave surfing is amazing.  The
> waves are SO big that you cannot possibly paddle
> fast enough to catch one.  So the surfer works 
> with a team of support people on Ski-doos.  One
> of the Ski-doos drags the surfer behind him so 
> that he can catch the wave, and then that Ski-doo
> rider and up to three more wait to rush to help
> the surfer once he's wiped out.  You always wipe
> out when riding giants, and if someone isn't 
> there to fish you out, you die.  It's not a 
> sport for the timid.
>

Yes it is Laird Hamilton.
You HAVE to watch "Riding Giants" if you didn't see it. One of the 
most inspiring video's I have ever seen. Laird tops the world of 
athletes. There are giants in sport...Pele, Jordan, Beckham, Borg, 
Natravilova, etc., but Laird is in a class of his own. It is him and 
the Ocean, and he is the master of surfing. His work is aesthetic, 
perfect, archetypal. Awesome.

OffWorld






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[FairfieldLife] Re: The Experience of a Conscious Self

2005-10-31 Thread off_world_beings
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "jim_flanegin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, off_world_beings 
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "jim_flanegin" 
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> > wrote:
> > > Your experiences sound wonderful by the way.
> > 
> > They are great, but a bit of a rollercoaster ride though. They 
are 
> > so strong that even in my greatest times of doubt, just the 
memory 
> > of them is enough to convince the intellect of the validity of 
the 
> > experience and the perception about the universe associated with 
> it. 
> > No matter how hard my mind and body, and the world, tries to 
> > convince me that I am wrong in my assessment of the divine in 
the 
> > world, the experiences always are the foundation of my beliefs 
> about 
> > the world. Nothing else can convince my intellect of these 
> concepts.
> > As I am sure this is the experience of many.
> > 
> > OffWorld
> >
> Yep, nothing convinces us like experience. As to the rollercoaster 
> ride, I found that I ended up in hindsight taking the appropriate 
> steps to integrate the ride so to speak. My experience was that 
once 
> my nervous system could support very powerful experiences -the 
flash-
>  the next step was learnng to integrate such experience so that it 
> served me as a normal part of daily life. Otherwise, what the 
hell? 
> 
> Now I am finding that the very mechanics of the universe itself 
are 
> readily available, and a lot of fun merely as a result of noticing 
> them. No longer any need to seek out or engage in the overly 
> dramatic events. Or should I say the process is merely quieter now?
>>>

Soounds great. I suspect I'll be dead from a heart attack or in a 
looney bin from the rollercoaster ride before that happens to me. 
Never was good at rollercoasters.

OffWorld






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[FairfieldLife] Re: Peer Reviewed Journals -- the Good, Bad and the Ugly

2005-10-31 Thread off_world_beings
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, off_world_beings 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> wrote:
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> [...]
> > > Which have nothing to do with O2 consumption, since Kesterson 
> > > published his research...>>
> > 
> > Maybe because nobody really cares about O2 consumption, but they 
do 
> > care about hypertension and heart disease strategies, and 
> > behavioural modifications in felons.
> > 
> 
> Sure, but those things are not based on O2 consumption.>>>


The why don't you STFU about stupid O2...(please:-), nobody cares 
about it. It is unimportant. There are more importatn things







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[FairfieldLife] Re: Peer Reviewed Journals -- the Good, Bad and the Ugly (PS)

2005-10-31 Thread off_world_beings
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, off_world_beings 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> wrote:
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> [...]
> > > ANd Keith has written about how things have changed since he 
first 
> > > started doing researchon TM 35 years ago.>>
> > 
> > And he did so LONG before Stephen Hawkings stated last year that 
his 
> > theory from the 1960's on black holes may be incorrect, and may 
not 
> > exist after all. This is a MUCH bigger flaw, and his whole 
career 
> > was built on it. He is still treated like God by physicists and 
> > laymen alike.
> >
> 
> 
> ??? When did Hawkings say that black holes may not exist?
> 
> He paid off a bet about a specific implication about black holes 
that 
> he now says is wrong. Just about everyone in physics and astronomy 
is 
> convinced that black holes exist.
>


About a year ago:

"After nearly 30 years of arguing that a black hole destroys 
everything that falls into it, Stephen Hawking is saying he was 
wrong. It seems that black holes may after all allow information 
within them to escape. Hawking will present his latest finding at a 
conference in Ireland next week.
The about-turn might cost Hawking, a physicist at the University of 
Cambridge, an encyclopaedia because of a bet he made in 1997. More 
importantly, it might solve one of the long-standing puzzles in 
modern physics, known as the black hole information paradox."
http://www.newscientist.com/article.ns?id=dn6151

"The Hawking U-turn won John Preskill a book on baseball"
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/3913145.stm






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[FairfieldLife] Re: The Experience of a Conscious Self

2005-10-31 Thread TurquoiseB
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "jim_flanegin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> wrote:
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, off_world_beings 
> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > >
> > > > Some fortunate folks are able to just dump the intellect;
> > > > others, like moi, have to fight it to the death using
> > > > the intellect as a weapon against itself (thorn to remove
> > > > a thorn).
> > > 
> > > Big Wave surfing will cure you of this problem.
> > > http://tinyurl.com/bgmfh
> > 
> > If I'm not mistaken, this is the famous photo of 
> > Laird Hamilton in the tube of the biggest wave 
> > ever ridden.  Big wave surfing is amazing.  The
> > waves are SO big that you cannot possibly paddle
> > fast enough to catch one.  So the surfer works 
> > with a team of support people on Ski-doos.  One
> > of the Ski-doos drags the surfer behind him so 
> > that he can catch the wave, and then that Ski-doo
> > rider and up to three more wait to rush to help
> > the surfer once he's wiped out.  You always wipe
> > out when riding giants, and if someone isn't 
> > there to fish you out, you die.  It's not a 
> > sport for the timid.
>
> Have you seen Endless Summer Two? IMO best surfing movie ever made. 
> Great cinematography and entertaining story.

I used to think that until I saw "Riding Giants" on
satellite TV.  Mindbending.  The "Endless Summer"
guys were riding pussy waves.  :-)







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[FairfieldLife] Re: US Constitution

2005-10-31 Thread authfriend
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "jim_flanegin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Jason Spock <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> wrote:
> >
> >  
> >   Here is a speech and Link,
> >  
> > http://www.fuckthesouth.com
> >  
> > ---OriginalMessage--
> > From: "Rick Archer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>   
> > Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2005 14:31:41 -0600 
> > Subject: [FairfieldLife] US Constitution 
> > 
> >   Another question from a friend:
> > 
> >   a few years ago Hagelin gave a commencement speech at MSAE 
> about how corrupt the u.s. constitution is - do you or anyone 
> remember that speech?
> >  
> Wow! "Hagelin" needs to drink more vata tea! ;)

It's hard to imagine how the Constitution could
be portrayed as "corrupt," since it's just a piece
of paper.  I wonder if he might have been saying
the U.S. *Congress* was corrupt, and Rick's friend
just got the C-words confused.







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[FairfieldLife] Re: US Constitution

2005-10-31 Thread jim_flanegin
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Jason Spock <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
>
>  
>   Here is a speech and Link,
>  
> http://www.fuckthesouth.com
>  
> ---OriginalMessage--
> From: "Rick Archer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>   
> Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2005 14:31:41 -0600 
> Subject: [FairfieldLife] US Constitution 
> 
>   Another question from a friend:
> 
>   a few years ago Hagelin gave a commencement speech at MSAE 
about how corrupt the u.s. constitution is - do you or anyone 
remember that speech?
>  
Wow! "Hagelin" needs to drink more vata tea! ;)






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[FairfieldLife] Re: The Experience of a Conscious Self

2005-10-31 Thread authfriend
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Irmeli Mattsson" 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
> > But what I was trying to get at was your previous
> > statement about it being necessary to posit an "I"
> > that sees the flower, even in enlightenment.  If you
> > try to go at it that way in describing enlightenment,
> > you run into the problem Peter described of using
> > a lower-order tool to portray a higher-order state.
> > 
> 
> Very clearly I don't share your enlightenment.

I beg your pardon?  When did I ever suggest I was
enlightened?




 I cannot miss it either.
> I am happy, experience bliss 24 hours a day, feel I'm learning and 
> evolving and my health has become much better and I feel I'm also 
> capable of helping others to evolve. There is nothing more I could 
dream
> from life.
> There is only one intellectual problem here: There are many people 
who 
> are claimed to be enlightened. They also clearly can have many 
kinds of 
> character problems: be narsissists,need constant adulation by 
followers 
> etc.What is so special about that kind of enlightenmet. Can these 
> narsissistic or even other enlightened people help really fellow 
humans 
> prosper better in the world? I have no clear observation of that.
> I have seen that responsible, nonmanipulative compassionate 
ordinary 
> people can do a lot to help their fellow humans to get over their 
> problems.

I have no idea what you're blathering about here.
I thought we were talking about the difficulty
of describing enlightenment.






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[FairfieldLife] The Great Indian - HogWash

2005-10-31 Thread Jason Spock









 
 
 
   
Fundamentalist Arrogance and Foolishness  
Mehul Kamdar 
 
  A few weeks ago, an Indian teenager, Saurabh Singh, was able to fool India into believing that he had topped an international science exam conducted by NASA. The President of India, Dr A P J Abdul Kalam is believed to have met him after he made his claim. The Uttar Pradesh state government and legislature awarded him half a million Indian Rupees and every legislator gave up a month’s salary to a fund for the boy. The boy’s story was itself farcical. He claimed (depending on which newspaper report one believes) to have stayed either at the Buckingham Palace or at a hotel in London, a city that he flew to on an Indian Airlines flight (the airline does not fly there) and took a taxi to Oxford University and back every day. The very idea seemed preposterous and yet Saurabh Singh got a lot more than his totally undeserved fifteen minutes of fame with his ridiculous claim. 
  This was not the first time that someone had gotten away with a massively fraudulent claim of this kind and managed to get the media’s fawning attention. Ramar Pillai, a fraud who claimed to create gasoline fuel from water by boiling a few leaves in it, still has his supporters especially the Swadeshi Jagran Manch convenor and Hindu activist, S Gurumurthy. One of India’s largest circulated magazines, The Week, carried a cover story on Pillai with the editors’ visions of a future India that was a huge sheikhdom of sorts selling fuel made from common water to the rest of the world, despite several scientists professing their grave reservations about this fraud. In my own small way, I had a Letter of mine to the editor of The Indian Express published suggesting that this was a fraud that went far beyond Pillai, an attempt at selling organic solvents that were used to adulterate gasoline as fuel on the market. A few years later, the whole mess
 proved to be just that. And yet Pilla! i’s fan club did not let him down. S Gurumurthy would meet Director General of Police, D Mukherjee several times claiming that Pillai was indeed a “scientist” and not the swindler that he certainly was. While it would be fallacious to suggest that Gurumurthy was involved in this fraud, there is no denying that his judgement had been seriously influenced by his desire to believe in his religion and it’s scriptures. An otherwise successful investigator of several cases of corporate fraud, his need to believe in his religion had left him looking silly. 
  But then, if the President of India, a scientist himself, could be fooled along with the legislature of one of India’s most populous states by a charlatan, Gurumurthy, a believer in miracles and religious mumbo jumbo was definitely a much easier target. And therein lies a pattern that works not just with prominent names like President Kalam and S Gurumurthy but also millions of common religious people worldwide. The propagandists of religion have perfected the art of deceiving their followers and those who seek to combat this charlatanry do have their work cut out. 
  There have been even funnier incidents in the past. The Ganesha milk drinking episode, the monkey man hoax, and even earlier incidents like Maharshi Mahesh Yogi’s “flight” demonstrations which turned out to be jumping demonstrations - the list is long enough to demonstrate that it is indeed possible to fool most believers most of the time. And the media has invariable been a willing accomplice in this process, driven as it is to this in the rush to sell itself to it’s audience. Some years ago, the Times of India, on some festival at the Tirupati temple in south India, got itself some writer who claimed that according to some scripture, a dry branch that was thrown into the temple pond at some “auspicious” time would turn green. Had this been offered with a disclaimer, it would have been to the Times’ credit. The newspaper was obviously focused on selling four colour pages as an advertising supplement and it allowed this complete nonsense in as an article probably as a
 perk to ! the advertisers. The fact also is that the Times had become just one more witting accomplice to those who would spread fundamentalism and foolishness among believers. 
  This foolishness among believers is something that comes out of the exclusivist nature of all religions. Every religion claims a monopoly on “eternal truth” and offers it’s followers “miracles.” Accepting a certain religion and it’s regulations, restrictions and teachings in toto guarantees rewards in life according to proselytizers who seem to have moved away from offers of an afterlife to people who are increasingly reluctant to believe in one. Dr Kalam as a Muslim Indian and S Gurumurthy as a Hindu are both religious people. Kalam has made no secret of the fact that he begins his day with a reading of the Qur’an and Gurumurthy’s harangues against Christians and Muslims on his website and the pages of the Indian Express are 

[FairfieldLife] Re: Peer Reviewed Journals -- the Good, Bad and the Ugly

2005-10-31 Thread L B Shriver
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "L B Shriver" 
> [...]
> > The nature of the "smoothing over" had to do with finding a 
> justification for maintaining 
> > the "twice as deep as sleep" epithet. As I mentioned above, this 
> concept has been retained, 
> > but on the basis of metastudies, not on the basis of a single measure 
> as previously. 
> > 
> > L B S
> >
> 
> The concept has been defunct for years. Find mention of O2 consumption 
> in any current research or any current "talking points" scientific 
> charts.



I did not say that "02" had been retained. What WAS retained was "state of rest 
twice as 
deep as sleep", only now as indicated by metastudies, not by one single, 
decisive measure.

L B S







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[FairfieldLife] Re: The Experience of a Conscious Self

2005-10-31 Thread jim_flanegin
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, off_world_beings 
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > > Some fortunate folks are able to just dump the intellect;
> > > others, like moi, have to fight it to the death using
> > > the intellect as a weapon against itself (thorn to remove
> > > a thorn).
> > 
> > Big Wave surfing will cure you of this problem.
> > http://tinyurl.com/bgmfh
> 
> If I'm not mistaken, this is the famous photo of 
> Laird Hamilton in the tube of the biggest wave 
> ever ridden.  Big wave surfing is amazing.  The
> waves are SO big that you cannot possibly paddle
> fast enough to catch one.  So the surfer works 
> with a team of support people on Ski-doos.  One
> of the Ski-doos drags the surfer behind him so 
> that he can catch the wave, and then that Ski-doo
> rider and up to three more wait to rush to help
> the surfer once he's wiped out.  You always wipe
> out when riding giants, and if someone isn't 
> there to fish you out, you die.  It's not a 
> sport for the timid.
>
Have you seen Endless Summer Two? IMO best surfing movie ever made. 
Great cinematography and entertaining story.





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[FairfieldLife] Re: Maharishi's designated successor.. The big question

2005-10-31 Thread johnlasher20002000
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Irmeli Mattsson"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > 
> > 
> > --- Vaj <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > 
> > 
> > > 
> > > How do you reconcile the fact, which was mentioned
> > > on here in some  
> > > detail, that M. sleeps a full eight hours or more
> > > and the fact that  
> > > enlightened beings require little sleep? There are
> > > numerous other  
> > > items which would bring into question M.'s
> > > "enlightenment".
> > > 
> > > So the story goes.
> > 
> > MMY is fully enlightened, no doubt about it, 100%
> > true. Nothing in the relative indicates anything
> > regarding enlightenment. All mind games and ego
> > positions. Vaj, have you ever interacted with MMY
> > personally?
> > 
> > 
> 
> I quote an earlier earlier post of yours dr.Pete:
> "The mind wants to have a story as a defense against
> experiences that contradict its primary story. Why
> have any story at all? MMY is a con artist; MMY is a
> great saint. He's both, he's neither, he's nothing.
> Why have any story/position at all. Does it matter?
> Attached, non-attached...just more stories."
> 
> Dr. Pete why do you want to create this story. Enlightened or not
> enlightened, doesn't matter, just stories. In addition to that
> enlightenment is a very confusing concept, because it is understood in
> so many ways. I myself also understand it in many ways. In one end I
> see every living sentient being to be enlightened and at the other
> extreme no one qualifies. Why do you need to defend MMY hiding so
> strongly behind the story of enlightenment (100% true).
> Or maybe there is no "I", who has an agenda to defend here. Words just
> lightly pop up from nowhere, there is no weight, no emotional stirring
> prompting YOU to write? Whom are YOU trying to delude here and why?
> 
> Irmeli
>

In all the pondering about MMY's sanity honesty etc I think the real
question which underlies it is the effectiveness of the basic TM and
the TM-Sidhis programs. There is certainly some thought that if MMY is
a con man maybe he missrepresented thier effect. Or maybe The
program/s are effective regardless of MMY's personality. This seems to
be the big question at least in my mind.






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[FairfieldLife] Maha Lakshmi...A Devotional take on Her story.

2005-10-31 Thread hanumanhoffman9
Jaya Guru Datta

The following is taken from a report and a 1996 Navaratri discourse by Sri 
Ganapathi 
Sachchidananda Swamiji.

Today Mother Goddess Durga Parameshwari is in the form of Lalitha Parameswari 
and Aadi 
Lakshmi forms. Normally 'Lakshmi' will mean Lord Vishnu's Consort. But today's 
form is 
not Vishnu's consort but She is Durgilakshmi-'Amsa' of Durga/Chandika. She has 
worn 
Lord Shiva as jewel. Shiva has worn 'Ganga' as jewel on His head. Keeping 
'Nagabharana' 
(serpent-like jewel) on Her head, She had invoked Shiva in that crest-jewel of 
Nagabharana. Today's Lakshmi is the deity Who reside in Kolhapura, in the state 
of 
Maharashtra. This Goddess Durgalakshmi has created holy places around Her city 
and 
installing Herself in the middle, is gracefully blessing the people. The story 
which Sri 
Swamiji is going to narrate happened in one of the age-old yuga and today's 
method of 
worship pertain to this story. Mother Goddess in Her Durgi form took the form 
of Adi 
Parashakti, exposing her 'sowmya roopa' (peaceful form) has attracted Maharshis 
including 
Lord Dattatreya. Who is Durgi Lakshmi? Mahalakshmi in Kolhapura is Herself 
Durgilakshmi. 
All the Devathas have installed 'yantras' there. Since She has attracted 
Maharshis and 
Dattatreya, She is even called 'Lalitha Parameswari' and Rajarajewari. This 
Goddess, fulfiller 
of all wishes is the Durga/Mahalakshmi, the presiding deity of Kolhapur. Sri 
Swamiji 
recollects an incident here.

Sri Swamiji along with some of the Ashramites/devotees had visited this place 
few months 
back and has performed Ksheerabhisheka to this Mahalakshmi. A miracle that took 
place 
was explained by Kuppa Krishnamurthy :

In the year 1996,Sri Swamiji and devotees and Ashramites left in a bus and two 
cars to 
visit Pandaripura, Ganagapura, Kolhapura and some places in the state of 
Maharashtra, 
(these Kshetras created by Mother Goddess) Sri Kuppa Krishnamurthy was one of 
the 
devotees who accompanied Sri Swamiji during this tour. They visited this 
Mahalakshmi 
Temple in Kolhapur. By the time they reached the temple, the 'Abhisheka for 
Mother was 
over and they had decorated her with jewels and 'archana' was going on. 
According to the 
rules of the temple, no one was allowed inside the sanctum-sanctorum of the 
temple, be it 
a Minister, Prime-Minister or any other dignitories holding high position. When 
Swamiji 
stood for Darshan, the priests of that temple treated Swamiji like any other 
ordinary 
people. There was a heavy crowd due to arrival of a Governor and some 
dignitories. 
Because of the presence of Governor and other dignitaries, the head-priest 
(Pradhana 
Archaka) had come to perform special pooja. On seeing Sri Swamiji, this 
Head-priest went 
inside the sanctum-sanctorum and removing all the jewels that had already been 
decorated after the abhisheka and made arrangements for 'panchamrita ' keeping 
milk, 
curds, ghee, sugar, plantains etc. No one knew what happened but he, 
immediately 
prostrating to Sri Swamiji took Sri Swamiji inside the Sanctum-sanctorum. Sri 
Swamiji 
performed 'panchamrita abhisheka to the Goddess and decorated Himself the idol 
of the 
Mother. He called all the devotees and ashramites who had accompanied Him 
inside the 
sanctum-sanctorum to the amazement of everyone. He even tied the 'mangalya' to 
the 
idol. The priests and other people talked something in Marathi and they all 
came to Sri 
Swamiji requested Him to perform 'sankeertana' in the precincts of the temple. 
All 
elaborate arrangements for accommodating and providing food and other things 
for Sri 
Swamiji and the devotees were made immediately. The Sankeertana was performed 
by Sri 
Swamiji in the evening. There was a big crowd for the Sankeertana of Sri 
Swamiji and 
recognising the unique specialty in the concert people were very happy. This is 
the 
'Aakarshana shakti' (attracting power) of Sri Swamiji. Sri Swamiji told Sri 
Kuppa 
Krishnamurthy that it was Dattatreya along with Lakshmi's 'Aakarshana'. The 
practice of 
the localities is that they keep 'panchamrita' as 'Naivedya' for Dattatreya. 
Sri Kuppa 
Krishnamurthy said that he was at a loss to understand whether it was Sri 
Swamiji who 
attracted Mother Lakshmi or Mother Lakshmi Herself seeing this Dattatreya (Our 
Swamiji) 
attracted Him and also blessed His shishyas (disciples) (i.e. ashramites and 
others who had 
accompanied Sri Swamiji),

Sri Swamiji sang his new composition.

"Jaya Kolhapura Jagadamba, Jaya Mama Hrudaye Jagadamba "

Sri Swamiji explained the meaning briefly of the above song. The one who 
resided in 
Padmavathipura, brilliant/effulgent with the grandeur or the overflow of mercy 
- (Here 
compassion or 'Karuna', mercy is the grandeur of the Mother is the speciality. 
There is 
'Dhanabala Vijrumbhana, 'Adhikarabala Vijrumbhana, Madabala vijrumbhana, 
santhanabala 
vijumbhana, rakshasabala vijrumbhana etc. But here, the mercy or compassion of 
the 
Mother is showere

[FairfieldLife] Re: The Experience of a Conscious Self

2005-10-31 Thread Jason Spock









 
 
    In other words, Sri. Stein, It is possible for MMY to see underlying unity and yet differentiate between other disciples and the Beatles, and the Swiss-Bank account.??
 
---OriginalMessage--
From: "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>   Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2005 13:42:08 - Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Experience of a Conscious Self 
  In a brahmin endowed with learning and humility, in a cow, in an elephant, in a dog and even in one who has lost his caste, the enlightened perceive the same.
Bhagavad-Gita, V:18
MMY comments, in part:
    "The mind of the realized man is fully infused with the state of Being--the oneness of life--and such a mind naturally has oneness of vision irrespective of what it sees.  The apparent distinctions of relative existence fail to create division in its view.
"This does not mean that such a man fails to see a cow or is unable to distinguish it from a dog.  Certainly he sees a cow as a cow and a dog as a dog, but the form of the cow and the form of the dog fail to blind him to the oneness of the Self, which is the same in both.  Although he sees a cow and a dog, his Self is established in the Being of the cow and the Being of the dog, which is his own Being.  The Lord stresses that the enlightened man, while beholding and acting in the whole of diversified creation, does not fall from his steadfast Unity of life, with which his mind is saturated and which remains indelibly infused into his vision."
  In other words, the enlightened person (presumably in Unity) sees both distinction and nondistinction, but the Unity of the person's state extends even to the distinction between distinction and nondistinction, i.e., distinction and nondistinction are not different.
  My (purely intellectual) understanding is that in Unity consciousness, there is no distinction between the flower, the process of seeing the flower, and that which sees the flower.
 
    
 
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[FairfieldLife] Re: Peer Reviewed Journals -- the Good, Bad and the Ugly

2005-10-31 Thread bbrigante
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "L B Shriver" 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, off_world_beings 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "L B Shriver" 
> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > >
> > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, bbrigante 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> > wrote:
> 
> 
> snip
> 
> > > > Mebbe so, but what TMer has not experienced the lessening of 
> > breath 
> > > > (which subsumes lessening of oxygen consumption), so it's a 
just 
> > a 
> > > > measurement problem -- it's not false that oxygen 
consumption is 
> > > > significantly lower in TM.
> > > >
> > > @@@
> > > 
> > > Exactly, Bobananda. However, it would be indistinguishably 
lower 
> > than if you were just 
> > > sitting with eyes closed.
> > > 
> > > L B S>>>
> > 
> > 
> > I have never in my life had anything like the experience of 
breath 
> > suspension that I get from TM, by just sitting with my eyes 
closed. 
> > The two are ENTIRELY different states of physiology, and if 
someone 
> > measures me when I am in that state of breath suspension they 
will 
> > wonder how my body is maintianed. There are yogi's who can 
sustain 
> > it for days, with VERY low oxygen consumption. Mine is unstable 
and 
> > I cannot cause it at will, but it is the same thing in lesser 
form.
> > 
> > OffWorld
> 
> 
> 
> You may be correct in this. My response to Bobananda was a 
sweeping overgeneralization 
> in that I was only referring to the average readings.
> 
> Breath suspension may be unique to meditation. I can't speak to 
this definitively because I 
> don't know if there is research on the possibility or extent of 
breath suspension among 
> those who just sit quietly with eyes closed.
> 
> L B S
> >
>

Congratulations and thanks to Professor Gordon C S Smith, & Jill P 
Pell, of Department of Obstetrics and Gynaecology, Cambridge 
University, & Department of Public Health, Greater Glasgow NHS Board 
respectively for conducting a systematic review of randomised 
controlled trials to determine whether parachutes are effective in 
preventing major trauma related to gravitational challenge. 

They were unable to identify any randomised controlled trials of 
parachutes and concluded that, like many interventions used in 
medicine, parachutes had not been as rigorously evaluated as 
required by evidence-based medicine.   

Advocates of evidence-based medicine have criticised the adoption of 
interventions evaluated by using only observational data. The 
authors suggest that everyone might benefit if the most radical 
protagonists of evidence-based medicine organised and participated 
in a double blind, randomised, placebo controlled, crossover trial 
of the parachute. This would presumably require them all to jump, 
more than once, from an aeroplane with a harness on their backs not 
knowing if it contained a real parachute or a dummy one.  (For the 
original paper see www.bvmjjournal.com  
and search on parachute).  









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[FairfieldLife] Deepavali Day Tuesday Nov.1st.

2005-10-31 Thread hanumanhoffman9
Jaya Guru Datta

Tuesday New Moon day is Deepavali, The day of Festival of Lights.
Below is a discourse from Swami Sivananda regarding its history.
Sri Guru Datta

Hanuman

DEEPAVALI

By

SRI SWAMI SIVANANDA

DEEPAVALI or Diwali means "a row of lights". It falls on the last two days of 
the dark half of 
Kartik (October-November). For some it is a three-day festival. It commences 
with the 
Dhan-Teras, on the 13th day of the dark half of Kartik, followed the next day 
by the Narak 
Chaudas, the 14th day, and by Deepavali proper on the 15th day.

There are various alleged origins attributed to this festival. Some hold that 
they celebrate 
the marriage of Lakshmi with Lord Vishnu. In Bengal the festival is dedicated 
to the 
worship of Kali. It also commemorates that blessed day on which the triumphant 
Lord 
Rama returned to Ayodhya after defeating Ravana. On this day also Sri Krishna 
killed the 
demon Narakasura.

In South India people take an oil bath in the morning and wear new clothes. 
They partake 
of sweetmeats. They light fireworks which are regarded as the effigies of 
Narakasura who 
was killed on this day. They greet one another, asking, "Have you had your 
Ganges bath?" 
which actually refers to the oil bath that morning as it is regarded as 
purifying as a bath in 
the holy Ganges.

Everyone forgets and forgives the wrongs done by others. There is an air of 
freedom, 
festivity and friendliness everywhere. This festival brings about unity. It 
instils charity in 
the hearts of people. Everyone buys new clothes for the family. Employers, too, 
purchase 
new clothes for their employees.

Waking up during the Brahmamuhurta (at 4a.m.) is a great blessing from the 
standpoint of 
health, ethical discipline, efficiency in work and spiritual advancement. It is 
on Deepavali 
that everyone wakes up early in the morning. The sages who instituted this 
custom must 
have cherished the hope that their descendents would realise its benefits and 
make it a 
regular habit in their lives.

In a happy mood of great rejoicing village folk move about freely, mixing with 
one another 
without any reserve, all enmity being forgotten. People embrace one another 
with love. 
Deepavali is a great unifying force. Those with keen inner spiritual ears will 
clearly hear 
the voice of the sages, "O Children of God! unite, and love all". The 
vibrations produced by 
the greetings of love which fill the atmosphere are powerful enough to bring 
about a 
change of heart in every man and woman in the world. Alas! That heart has 
considerably 
hardened, and only a continuous celebration of Deepavali in our homes can 
rekindle in us 
the urgent need of turning away from the ruinous path of hatred.

On this day Hindu merchants in North India open their new account books and 
pray for 
success and prosperity during the coming year. The homes are cleaned and 
decorated by 
day and illuminated by night with earthern oil-lamps. The best and finest 
illuminations are 
to be seen in Bombay and Amritsar. The famous Golden Temple at Amritsar is lit 
in the 
evening with thousands of lamps placed all over the steps of the big tank. 
Vaishnavites 
celebrate the Govardhan Puja and feed the poor on a large scale.

O Ram! The light of lights, the self-luminous inner light of the Self is ever 
shining steadily 
in the chamber of your heart. Sit quietly. Close your eyes. Withdraw the 
senses. Fix the 
mind on this supreme light and enjoy the real Deepavali, by attaining 
illumination of the 
soul.

He who Himself sees all but whom no one beholds, who illumines the intellect, 
the sun, 
the moon and the stars and the whole universe but whom they cannot illumine, He 
indeed 
is Brahman, He is the inner Self. Celebrate the real Deepavali by living in 
Brahman, and 
enjoy the eternal bliss of the soul.

The sun does not shine there, nor do the moon and the stars, nor do lightnings 
shine and 
much less fire. All the lights of the world cannot be compared even to a ray of 
the inner 
light of the Self. Merge yourself in this light of lights and enjoy the supreme 
Deepavali.

Many Deepavali festivals have come and gone. Yet the hearts of the vast 
majority are as 
dark as the night of the new moon. The house is lit with lamps, but the heart 
is full of the 
darkness of ignorance. O man! wake up from the slumber of ignorance. Realise 
the 
constant and eternal light of the Soul which neither rises nor sets, through 
meditation and 
deep enquiry.

May you all attain full inner illumination! May the supreme light of lights 
enlighten your 
understanding! May you all attain the inexhaustible spiritual wealth of the 
Self! May you all 
prosper gloriously on the material as well as spiritual planes!





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-

[FairfieldLife] US Constitution

2005-10-31 Thread Rick Archer
Another question from a friend:

 a few years ago Hagelin gave a commencement speech at MSAE about
how corrupt the u.s. constitution is - do you or anyone remember that
speech?




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[FairfieldLife] Re: The Experience of a Conscious Self

2005-10-31 Thread Irmeli Mattsson
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
>
> 
> 
> --- Irmeli Mattsson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> 
> > My opinion: A concept that you cannot define
> > shouldn't be used at all
> > untill you can define it.
> 
> Of course, I agree. The problem comes in when the
> concepts one is attempting to define entail
> experiences outside of the waking state mind. If these
> experiences have not occured you're left with an empty
> concept. For example. MMY talks about pure
> consciousness as unbounded.  For years my mind thought
> of unboundedness as spatially big. In enlightenment
> one would "fill the cosmos". It's natural to think
> this because in our waking state experience boundaries
> cut space up into sections. Remove the boundaries and
> you have a really big space. I even had experiences of
> filling up the cosmos to varying degrees. But once the
> foundational shift occured from a self to a no-self,
> it became rather obvious what MMY was talking about
> when he says, "unbounded", and it has nothing to do
> with space or time. Many of the enlightenment concepts
> that I thought I understood can only make true sense
> within their phenomenological domain/condition. In
> waking state they are empty and usually create
> confusion. 
> 

*
Clearly it is futile to discuss these issues with you. With my waking 
state reality I just cannot comprehend you. Just bits and pieces, but 
the whole picture doesn't cohere.   
I'm fully happy with my waking state reality. I couldn't handle more 
just know. And if you are happy with your enlightenment, so what's 
the problem.
Maybe the only problem is that I feel you cannot understand what I'm 
trying to communicate and I cannot understand what you are saying. 
And that is a pity, because it is a joy when you can share something 
you feel is important with somebody else. But between us there is 
clearly a wall, and it is stupid to go on hitting your head against 
the wall in trying to get through. Although that is really not that 
bad, because we both have many other people we can satisfyingly share 
our thoughts with.

Irmeli





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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Experience of a Conscious Self

2005-10-31 Thread Vaj


On Oct 31, 2005, at 1:08 PM, Peter wrote:MMY talks about pure consciousness as unbounded.  For years my mind thought of unboundedness as spatially big. In enlightenment one would "fill the cosmos". It's natural to think this because in our waking state experience boundaries cut space up into sections. Remove the boundaries and you have a really big space. I even had experiences of filling up the cosmos to varying degrees. But once the foundational shift occured from a self to a no-self, it became rather obvious what MMY was talking about when he says, "unbounded", and it has nothing to do with space or time. Lamas will often propose the paradoxical proposition "not seeing is perfect seeing" as a dualistic way of getting people to jump into unboundedness. Paradoxical if it has not been experienced, but simply "unbounded" and unencumbered if you do. No big deal. :-)





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[FairfieldLife] Re: The Experience of a Conscious Self

2005-10-31 Thread Irmeli Mattsson
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> But what I was trying to get at was your previous
> statement about it being necessary to posit an "I"
> that sees the flower, even in enlightenment.  If you
> try to go at it that way in describing enlightenment,
> you run into the problem Peter described of using
> a lower-order tool to portray a higher-order state.
> 

Very clearly I don't share your enlightenment. I cannot miss it either.
I am happy, experience bliss 24 hours a day, feel I'm learning and 
evolving and my health has become much better and I feel I'm also 
capable of helping others to evolve. There is nothing more I could dream
from life.
There is only one intellectual problem here: There are many people who 
are claimed to be enlightened. They also clearly can have many kinds of 
character problems: be narsissists,need constant adulation by followers 
etc.What is so special about that kind of enlightenmet. Can these 
narsissistic or even other enlightened people help really fellow humans 
prosper better in the world? I have no clear observation of that.
I have seen that responsible, nonmanipulative compassionate ordinary 
people can do a lot to help their fellow humans to get over their 
problems.

Irmeli





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[FairfieldLife] Re: Peer Reviewed Journals -- the Good, Bad and the Ugly

2005-10-31 Thread sparaig
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "L B Shriver" 
[...]
> The nature of the "smoothing over" had to do with finding a 
justification for maintaining 
> the "twice as deep as sleep" epithet. As I mentioned above, this 
concept has been retained, 
> but on the basis of metastudies, not on the basis of a single measure 
as previously. 
> 
> L B S
>

The concept has been defunct for years. Find mention of O2 consumption 
in any current research or any current "talking points" scientific 
charts.





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[FairfieldLife] Re: MUM website, like Peter Sutphen

2005-10-31 Thread sparaig
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, off_world_beings 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, off_world_beings 
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > MUM website, like Peter Sutphen, has passed away?
> > >
> > 
> > 
> > Er, no?
> > 
> > http://www.mum.edu/
> >
> 
> It don't work.
> "The page cannot be displayed" message
>

Your web-browser appearsto be incompatible with the MUM website.


Works with 3 different webbrowsers on two different OS's for me.






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[FairfieldLife] Re: Peer Reviewed Journals -- the Good, Bad and the Ugly

2005-10-31 Thread sparaig
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "L B Shriver" 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, off_world_beings 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "L B Shriver" 
> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > >
> > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, bbrigante <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> > wrote:
> 
> 
> snip
> 
> > > > Mebbe so, but what TMer has not experienced the lessening of 
> > breath 
> > > > (which subsumes lessening of oxygen consumption), so it's a 
just 
> > a 
> > > > measurement problem -- it's not false that oxygen consumption 
is 
> > > > significantly lower in TM.
> > > >
> > > @@@
> > > 
> > > Exactly, Bobananda. However, it would be indistinguishably 
lower 
> > than if you were just 
> > > sitting with eyes closed.
> > > 
> > > L B S>>>
> > 
> > 
> > I have never in my life had anything like the experience of 
breath 
> > suspension that I get from TM, by just sitting with my eyes 
closed. 
> > The two are ENTIRELY different states of physiology, and if 
someone 
> > measures me when I am in that state of breath suspension they 
will 
> > wonder how my body is maintianed. There are yogi's who can 
sustain 
> > it for days, with VERY low oxygen consumption. Mine is unstable 
and 
> > I cannot cause it at will, but it is the same thing in lesser 
form.
> > 
> > OffWorld
> 
> 
> 
> You may be correct in this. My response to Bobananda was a sweeping 
overgeneralization 
> in that I was only referring to the average readings.
> 
> Breath suspension may be unique to meditation. I can't speak to 
this definitively because I 
> don't know if there is research on the possibility or extent of 
breath suspension among 
> those who just sit quietly with eyes closed.
> 

It can happen with people just sitting quietly, but not for very 
long. Amongst people meditating, it isn't noticed unless it lasts for 
more than a few seconds. ONe assumes that that is the case for non-
meditators also.

BTW, the researchers were not looking for people reporting breath 
suspension and no-one said to them "oh, I stopped breathing." They 
were asking for subjects who were having clear experiences of 
transcending and the breath suspension state was the most obvious 
thing correlated with reports of transcending.

I'm also wondering at people on FFL who are reporting breath 
suspension during TM since one of the things that the researchers 
noticed was that the EEG, breathing, etc., returned to normal for 
several seconds before pressing the button to signal that they noted 
transcending.

IOW, they didn't notice samadhi until they were no longer in samadhi.






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[FairfieldLife] Re: The Experience of a Conscious Self

2005-10-31 Thread TurquoiseB
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, off_world_beings 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > Some fortunate folks are able to just dump the intellect;
> > others, like moi, have to fight it to the death using
> > the intellect as a weapon against itself (thorn to remove
> > a thorn).
> 
> Big Wave surfing will cure you of this problem.
> http://tinyurl.com/bgmfh

If I'm not mistaken, this is the famous photo of 
Laird Hamilton in the tube of the biggest wave 
ever ridden.  Big wave surfing is amazing.  The
waves are SO big that you cannot possibly paddle
fast enough to catch one.  So the surfer works 
with a team of support people on Ski-doos.  One
of the Ski-doos drags the surfer behind him so 
that he can catch the wave, and then that Ski-doo
rider and up to three more wait to rush to help
the surfer once he's wiped out.  You always wipe
out when riding giants, and if someone isn't 
there to fish you out, you die.  It's not a 
sport for the timid.







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[FairfieldLife] Re: Peer Reviewed Journals -- the Good, Bad and the Ugly

2005-10-31 Thread sparaig
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, off_world_beings <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "L B Shriver" 

[...]
> I have never in my life had anything like the experience of breath 
> suspension that I get from TM, by just sitting with my eyes closed. 
> The two are ENTIRELY different states of physiology, and if someone 
> measures me when I am in that state of breath suspension they will 
> wonder how my body is maintianed. There are yogi's who can sustain 
> it for days, with VERY low oxygen consumption. Mine is unstable and 
> I cannot cause it at will, but it is the same thing in lesser form.
> 

At least in TM, breath suspension is not associated with O2 
consumption. There are Buddhist techniques that can drastically lower 
O2 consumption, but I don't know if that is correlated with samadhi 
directly or not.






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[FairfieldLife] Re: The Experience of a Conscious Self

2005-10-31 Thread jim_flanegin
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, off_world_beings 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "jim_flanegin" 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> wrote:
> > Your experiences sound wonderful by the way.
> 
> They are great, but a bit of a rollercoaster ride though. They are 
> so strong that even in my greatest times of doubt, just the memory 
> of them is enough to convince the intellect of the validity of the 
> experience and the perception about the universe associated with 
it. 
> No matter how hard my mind and body, and the world, tries to 
> convince me that I am wrong in my assessment of the divine in the 
> world, the experiences always are the foundation of my beliefs 
about 
> the world. Nothing else can convince my intellect of these 
concepts.
> As I am sure this is the experience of many.
> 
> OffWorld
>
Yep, nothing convinces us like experience. As to the rollercoaster 
ride, I found that I ended up in hindsight taking the appropriate 
steps to integrate the ride so to speak. My experience was that once 
my nervous system could support very powerful experiences -the flash-
 the next step was learnng to integrate such experience so that it 
served me as a normal part of daily life. Otherwise, what the hell? 

Now I am finding that the very mechanics of the universe itself are 
readily available, and a lot of fun merely as a result of noticing 
them. No longer any need to seek out or engage in the overly 
dramatic events. Or should I say the process is merely quieter now?






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[FairfieldLife] Re: Peer Reviewed Journals -- the Good, Bad and the Ugly

2005-10-31 Thread sparaig
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, off_world_beings <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
[...]
> > Which have nothing to do with O2 consumption, since Kesterson 
> > published his research...>>
> 
> Maybe because nobody really cares about O2 consumption, but they do 
> care about hypertension and heart disease strategies, and 
> behavioural modifications in felons.
> 

Sure, but those things are not based on O2 consumption.





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[FairfieldLife] Re: Peer Reviewed Journals -- the Good, Bad and the Ugly (PS)

2005-10-31 Thread sparaig
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, off_world_beings <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
[...]
> > ANd Keith has written about how things have changed since he first 
> > started doing researchon TM 35 years ago.>>
> 
> And he did so LONG before Stephen Hawkings stated last year that his 
> theory from the 1960's on black holes may be incorrect, and may not 
> exist after all. This is a MUCH bigger flaw, and his whole career 
> was built on it. He is still treated like God by physicists and 
> laymen alike.
>


??? When did Hawkings say that black holes may not exist?

He paid off a bet about a specific implication about black holes that 
he now says is wrong. Just about everyone in physics and astronomy is 
convinced that black holes exist.






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Re: [FairfieldLife] Definition of a Libertarian

2005-10-31 Thread Bhairitu
shempmcgurk wrote:

>A conservative who likes porn
>
>  (Triumph the Insult Dog)
>
>  
>
The political science definition of a Libertarian is someone who is 
socially liberal and economically conservative.  Unless, of course, they 
are Aynn Rand Libertarians which in that case they are just plain nuts.



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[FairfieldLife] Re: Bird Flu, was: Florida News

2005-10-31 Thread akasha_108
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anonymousff <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote:
> >
> > on 10/31/05 2:44 AM, TurquoiseB at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> > > 
> > > I'm talking about the mindset.  Having bought into
> > > the propaganda being distributed right now, which
> > > IMO is *intended to* create a sense of fear in the
> > > population.  T'would seem that it worked.
> > 
> > You don't think the bird flu thing is a real threat?
> >
> 
> Rumsfeld To Profit From Avian Flu Hoax
> 
> Finally, the pieces of the puzzle start to add up. Last week,
> President Bush sought to instill panic in this country by telling us a
> minimum of 200,000 people will die from the avian flu pandemic but it
> could be as bad as 2 million deaths in this country alone.
> 
> This hoax is then used to justify the immediate purchase of 80 million
> doses of Tamiflu, a worthless drug that in no way shape or form treats
> the avian flu, but only decreases the amount of days one is sick and
> can actually contribute to the virus having more lethal mutations.
> 
> So the U.S. placed an order for 20 million doses of this worthless
> drug at a price of $100 per dose. That comes to a staggering $2 billion.
> 
> We are being told that Roche manufactures Tamiflu and, in yesterday's
> New York Times, they were battling whether or not they would allow
> generic drug companies to help increase their production.
> 
> But if you dig further you will find that a drug was actually
> developed by a company called Gilead that 10 years ago gave Roche the
> exclusive rights to market and sell Tamiflu.
> 
> Ahh, The Plot Thickens...
> 
> If you read the link below from Gilead, you'll discover Defense
> Secretary Donald Rumsfeld was made the chairman of Gilead in 1997.
> 
> Since Rumsfeld holds major portions of stock in Gilead, he will
> handsomely profit from the scare tactics of the government that is
> being used to justify the purchase of $2 billion of Tamiflu.



Yea, that conspiracy sounds so plausible. Lets see, how would that
unfold. The cabinet is sitting around and Rummie says: 

"Hey guys, its my turn to profit from some scam. I gave my Gilead
stock to my private foundatation, but its now fighting to get the
rights back for manufacturing Tamiflu. It may or may not be
successful, and if it does, it may or may not make no more money from
Tamiflu than by simply  licencing it from Roche -- since Roche is
offering that now. But hey, why don't you guys in Health and all stir
up this big scar -- and then we can spend more money we don't have for
nothing useful -- even tho we have a huge budget crunch, and even tho
this would  be a huge scandal if uncovered and would sink the
administration and disgrace all of us eternally,  and Gilead may or
may not profit, so fucking what, because my foundation might then have
some more money to spend on public service things. And somehow, that
makes me happy -- even though with my existing 35-135 million that I
have, I could just give more to the foundation if I want to do more
foundation work, but what the hell, you guys have nothing better to
do. So please guys do one for the Rummie."

yea, that makes a lot of sense. Got any more good ones to run by us.





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[FairfieldLife] Re: Definition of a Libertarian

2005-10-31 Thread cardemaister
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "shempmcgurk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
>
> A conservative who likes porn
> 
>   (Triumph the Insult Dog)
>

I guess if Triumph didn't speak English with
such a heavy Spanish(?) accent, he wouldn't 
be allowed to utter those often grave insults
on TV.






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[FairfieldLife] Re: The Experience of a Conscious Self

2005-10-31 Thread off_world_beings
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "jim_flanegin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, off_world_beings 
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "jim_flanegin" 
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> > wrote:
> > > Nice! It is the very diversity of the world that keeps this 
> power 
> > > fully blossoming. All of the gunas and their various 
> combinations 
> > > express the fully blossoming force of Oneness. Every fragment, 
> > every 
> > > wholeness, indivisible and diverse, infinity in every point 
and 
> > > particle, every shadow and shape, every thought and all of 
> > silence, 
> > > whether of darkness or light, reflects this and that awesome 
> > power, 
> > > of Oneness.
> > >
> > 
> > Interesting, yes I could see how that would work. My experiences 
> are 
> > so powerful it would seem good for the world for it not to come 
> > forth in full force, as this plane would be annihilated. But I 
can 
> > see how ever-increasing diversity can absorb its force in almost 
> > ininitely incremental and nanosecond steps. Unfolding 
infinitely, 
> > just like Maharishi describes. As long as it keeps creating like 
> > that across the whole universe and expanding the universe I 
could 
> > see how it can create. Amazing thought. Thankyou.
> > 
> > OffWorld
> >
> Yes, it is an infinitely powerful momentum that continues to 
unfold 
> in its infinite diversity into infinite whole universes, plural. 
> Your experiences sound wonderful by the way.
>


They are great, but a bit of a rollercoaster ride though. They are 
so strong that even in my greatest times of doubt, just the memory 
of them is enough to convince the intellect of the validity of the 
experience and the perception about the universe associated with it. 
No matter how hard my mind and body, and the world, tries to 
convince me that I am wrong in my assessment of the divine in the 
world, the experiences always are the foundation of my beliefs about 
the world. Nothing else can convince my intellect of these concepts.
As I am sure this is the experience of many.

OffWorld





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[FairfieldLife] Re: The Experience of a Conscious Self

2005-10-31 Thread off_world_beings
 
> >>Some fortunate folks are able to just dump the intellect;
> others, like moi, have to fight it to the death using
> the intellect as a weapon against itself (thorn to remove
> a thorn).>>>


Big Wave surfing will cure you of this problem.
http://tinyurl.com/bgmfh

OffWorld






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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Bird Flu, was: Florida News

2005-10-31 Thread Sal Sunshine
Remember the duct tape and plastic sheets episode?  Turns out the companies that make both those things donated heavily to Bush et al in the first campaign.

On Oct 31, 2005, at 10:21 AM, anonymousff wrote:

 Since Rumsfeld holds major portions of stock in Gilead, he will
 handsomely profit from the scare tactics of the government that is
 being used to justify the purchase of $2 billion of Tamiflu.



Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Experience of a Conscious Self

2005-10-31 Thread Peter


--- Irmeli Mattsson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


> My opinion: A concept that you cannot define
> shouldn't be used at all
> untill you can define it.

Of course, I agree. The problem comes in when the
concepts one is attempting to define entail
experiences outside of the waking state mind. If these
experiences have not occured you're left with an empty
concept. For example. MMY talks about pure
consciousness as unbounded.  For years my mind thought
of unboundedness as spatially big. In enlightenment
one would "fill the cosmos". It's natural to think
this because in our waking state experience boundaries
cut space up into sections. Remove the boundaries and
you have a really big space. I even had experiences of
filling up the cosmos to varying degrees. But once the
foundational shift occured from a self to a no-self,
it became rather obvious what MMY was talking about
when he says, "unbounded", and it has nothing to do
with space or time. Many of the enlightenment concepts
that I thought I understood can only make true sense
within their phenomenological domain/condition. In
waking state they are empty and usually create
confusion. 



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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Maharishi School Enrollment Down

2005-10-31 Thread Peter
My first porn was in 6th grade (about 1965-66). Some
kid brought a magazine to school filled with close-ups
of vaginas. It absolutely blew my mind! Needless to
say I've been ruined ever since.  

--- feste37 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> I wonder which will inflict more harm -- the 
> swearing and the porn or the over-
> protective mother? I suspect it will  be the latter.
> I well remember the very first 
> piece of porn I ever bought. It was Penthouse. I
> even remember the name of 
> the centerfold. Brandy.  She was unspeakably
> delicious in every way, quite 
> unlike her successors of today who for the most part
> seem to have stepped 
> out of a gynacological textbook -- the section
> marked "naming of the parts." 
> 
> > --- Rick Archer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > wrote:
> 
> > > 
> > > A friend of mine took her full-paying son out of
> > > MSAE because a lot of his
> > > classmates were into swearing, looking at porn,
> etc.
> > > He's been doing home
> > > schooling since.
> > 
> > 
> > What's wrong with looking at some fucking tits?
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
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> > > 
> > > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > __ 
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> > http://mail.yahoo.com
> >
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> 
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[FairfieldLife] Re: Bird Flu, was: Florida News

2005-10-31 Thread authfriend
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anonymousff <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote:
> >
> > on 10/31/05 2:44 AM, TurquoiseB at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> > > 
> > > I'm talking about the mindset.  Having bought into
> > > the propaganda being distributed right now, which
> > > IMO is *intended to* create a sense of fear in the
> > > population.  T'would seem that it worked.
> > 
> > You don't think the bird flu thing is a real threat?
> 
> At least one person is coming forth saying it is nothing more than
> a) a plan to keep the fear going b) moneymaking for the same ol' 
> people
> 
> http://www.mercola.com/2005/oct/25/avian_flu_epidemic_is_a_hoax.htm

He makes a few good points, but he misses (I can't
believe it's inadvertent) the *main* point, which
is the threat that the bird flu virus will mutate
to human-to-human transmission.  A virus that is
passed from birds to humans is not a major threat;
one that passes from humans to humans, against which
humans do not have immunity, is a potential global
disaster--not just from the illness itself but from
the large-scale breakdowns of essential services
and even international order that are likely to
occur as a result.

Independent epidemology and infectious disease
experts generally agree that the likelihood of
mutation to human-to-human transmission is high.

Everything else is just speculation at this point:
when it will happen, how virulent and lethal the
mutated virus will be.  But not to prepare for the
worst-case scenario is a little like telling
a heavy smoker that he doesn't need to quit
because it's possible he won't get lung cancer.

Moreover, even if this particular strain of avian
flu doesn't mutate into a real killer, there are
plenty of other animal diseases which could also
mutate at some point and cause a pandemic.  The
experts say it's not a matter of if but when.

(These experts, by the way, are not all employed
by companies that make vaccines and antiviral
medications, nor are they all employed by the
government or the media.  There's good reason to
think the government *does* want us to be afraid,
and the pharma companies *do* want to sell lots
of drugs, and the media *do* want to attract
maximum eyeballs--but this does NOT mean there
is no threat.  It simply means the drug companies
and the government and the media are opportunists
who aim to take advantage of the threat to advance
their own goals.)






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[FairfieldLife] Re: Bird Flu, was: Florida News

2005-10-31 Thread TurquoiseB
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> on 10/31/05 2:44 AM, TurquoiseB at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> > 
> > I'm talking about the mindset.  Having bought into
> > the propaganda being distributed right now, which
> > IMO is *intended to* create a sense of fear in the
> > population.  T'would seem that it worked.
> 
> You don't think the bird flu thing is a real threat?

It might become one, but it is being hyped by the 
media to inspire fear.  The fear is not justified
by the current state of the disease, but is being
exploited because it money for the media.  Bad news
sells.  The badder the news, the more fear it inspires,
the more money you make.  Simple as that.










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[FairfieldLife] Re: Maharishi School Enrollment Down

2005-10-31 Thread feste37
I wonder which will inflict more harm -- the  swearing and the porn or the over-
protective mother? I suspect it will  be the latter. I well remember the very 
first 
piece of porn I ever bought. It was Penthouse. I even remember the name of 
the centerfold. Brandy.  She was unspeakably delicious in every way, quite 
unlike her successors of today who for the most part seem to have stepped 
out of a gynacological textbook -- the section marked "naming of the parts." 

> --- Rick Archer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote:

> > 
> > A friend of mine took her full-paying son out of
> > MSAE because a lot of his
> > classmates were into swearing, looking at porn, etc.
> > He's been doing home
> > schooling since.
> 
> 
> What's wrong with looking at some fucking tits?
> 
> 
> 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
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> > 
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> > 
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> 
> 
>   
>   
> __ 
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> http://mail.yahoo.com
>







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[FairfieldLife] Re: The Experience of a Conscious Self

2005-10-31 Thread jim_flanegin
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
the enlightened person (presumably
> in Unity) sees both distinction and nondistinction,
> but the Unity of the person's state extends even to
> the distinction between distinction and nondistinction,
> i.e., distinction and nondistinction are not different.
> 
Exactly so. A valid piece of the puzzle...only it is the reality of 
Brahman, not Unity, that you are describing. Or put more accurately, 
Unity glimpses Brahman momentarily. Unity is a speck of Brahman. 
Describing our subjective perception, Unity is a drop in the ocean of 
Brahman.







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[FairfieldLife] Re: The Experience of a Conscious Self

2005-10-31 Thread jim_flanegin
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, off_world_beings 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "jim_flanegin" 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> wrote:
> > Nice! It is the very diversity of the world that keeps this 
power 
> > fully blossoming. All of the gunas and their various 
combinations 
> > express the fully blossoming force of Oneness. Every fragment, 
> every 
> > wholeness, indivisible and diverse, infinity in every point and 
> > particle, every shadow and shape, every thought and all of 
> silence, 
> > whether of darkness or light, reflects this and that awesome 
> power, 
> > of Oneness.
> >
> 
> Interesting, yes I could see how that would work. My experiences 
are 
> so powerful it would seem good for the world for it not to come 
> forth in full force, as this plane would be annihilated. But I can 
> see how ever-increasing diversity can absorb its force in almost 
> ininitely incremental and nanosecond steps. Unfolding infinitely, 
> just like Maharishi describes. As long as it keeps creating like 
> that across the whole universe and expanding the universe I could 
> see how it can create. Amazing thought. Thankyou.
> 
> OffWorld
>
Yes, it is an infinitely powerful momentum that continues to unfold 
in its infinite diversity into infinite whole universes, plural. 
Your experiences sound wonderful by the way.





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[FairfieldLife] Re: Bird Flu, was: Florida News

2005-10-31 Thread anonymousff
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
>
> on 10/31/05 2:44 AM, TurquoiseB at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> > 
> > I'm talking about the mindset.  Having bought into
> > the propaganda being distributed right now, which
> > IMO is *intended to* create a sense of fear in the
> > population.  T'would seem that it worked.
> 
> You don't think the bird flu thing is a real threat?
>

Rumsfeld To Profit From Avian Flu Hoax

Finally, the pieces of the puzzle start to add up. Last week,
President Bush sought to instill panic in this country by telling us a
minimum of 200,000 people will die from the avian flu pandemic but it
could be as bad as 2 million deaths in this country alone.

This hoax is then used to justify the immediate purchase of 80 million
doses of Tamiflu, a worthless drug that in no way shape or form treats
the avian flu, but only decreases the amount of days one is sick and
can actually contribute to the virus having more lethal mutations.

So the U.S. placed an order for 20 million doses of this worthless
drug at a price of $100 per dose. That comes to a staggering $2 billion.

We are being told that Roche manufactures Tamiflu and, in yesterday's
New York Times, they were battling whether or not they would allow
generic drug companies to help increase their production.

But if you dig further you will find that a drug was actually
developed by a company called Gilead that 10 years ago gave Roche the
exclusive rights to market and sell Tamiflu.

Ahh, The Plot Thickens...

If you read the link below from Gilead, you'll discover Defense
Secretary Donald Rumsfeld was made the chairman of Gilead in 1997.

Since Rumsfeld holds major portions of stock in Gilead, he will
handsomely profit from the scare tactics of the government that is
being used to justify the purchase of $2 billion of Tamiflu.





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[FairfieldLife] Re: Bird Flu, was: Florida News

2005-10-31 Thread anonymousff
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
>
> on 10/31/05 2:44 AM, TurquoiseB at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> > 
> > I'm talking about the mindset.  Having bought into
> > the propaganda being distributed right now, which
> > IMO is *intended to* create a sense of fear in the
> > population.  T'would seem that it worked.
> 
> You don't think the bird flu thing is a real threat?
>

At least one person is coming forth saying it is nothing more than a)
a plan to keep the fear going b) moneymaking for the same ol' people

http://www.mercola.com/2005/oct/25/avian_flu_epidemic_is_a_hoax.htm





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[FairfieldLife] Re: MUM website, like Peter Sutphen

2005-10-31 Thread authfriend
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, off_world_beings 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, off_world_beings 
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > MUM website, like Peter Sutphen, has passed away?
> > >
> > 
> > 
> > Er, no?
> > 
> > http://www.mum.edu/
> >
> 
> It don't work.
> "The page cannot be displayed" message

Not for me; it loads with no problem.









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[FairfieldLife] Re: The Experience of a Conscious Self

2005-10-31 Thread authfriend
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Irmeli Mattsson" 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Irmeli Mattsson" 
> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > >
> > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Irmeli Mattsson" 
> > > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > > 
> > > > > If you see a flower, who is seeing the flower? That was 
> > > > > basically my question. Your answer would probably be that 
in 
> > > > > your case the Universal Self is seeing the flower, because 
you 
> > > > > are enlightened. But I understand also the Universal Self 
to be 
> > > > > a subject, "I", who sees the flower.
> > > > 
> > > > My (purely intellectual) understanding is that in
> > > > Unity consciousness, there is no distinction between
> > > > the flower, the process of seeing the flower, and
> > > > that which sees the flower.
> > > >
> > > 
> > > 
> > > The way you express Unity consciousness could be also 
understood 
> > > this way: In unity consciousness the differentiation between 
the 
> > > flower, the process of seeing the flower and that which sees 
the 
> > > flower is not there and possible.
> > > 
> > > What a mess. That is the reality of a new born baby.
> > 
> >In a brahmin endowed with learning and humility, in
> >a cow, in an elephant, in a dog and even in one who
> >has lost his caste, the enlightened perceive the same.
> > 
> > Bhagavad-Gita, V:18
> > 
> > MMY comments, in part:
> > 
> > "The mind of the realized man is fully infused with
> > the state of Being--the oneness of life--and such a mind
> > naturally has oneness of vision irrespective of what it
> > sees.  The apparent distinctions of relative existence
> > fail to create division in its view.
> > 
> > "This does not mean that such a man fails to see a cow
> > or is unable to distinguish it from a dog.  Certainly he
> > sees a cow as a cow and a dog as a dog, but the form of
> > the cow and the form of the dog fail to blind him to the
> > oneness of the Self, which is the same in both.  Although
> > he sees a cow and a dog, his Self is established in the
> > Being of the cow and the Being of the dog, which is his
> > own Being.  The Lord stresses that the enlightened man,
> > while beholding and acting in the whole of diversified
> > creation, does not fall from his steadfast Unity of life,
> > with which his mind is saturated and which remains
> > indelibly infused into his vision."
> > 
> > In other words, the enlightened person (presumably
> > in Unity) sees both distinction and nondistinction,
> > but the Unity of the person's state extends even to
> > the distinction between distinction and nondistinction,
> > i.e., distinction and nondistinction are not different.
> > 
> > > I would describe Unity consciousness like this: In Unity
> > > consciousness it is seen and felt that the one who sees, the 
> > > process of seeing and the seen are not independent and separate 
> > > processes or entities from each other.
> > 
> > Nor is that which sees and feels that they are not
> > independent and separate from the seeing and feeling
> > thereof.  Nor is that which sees and feels that it
> > is not independent and separate from the seeing and
> > feeling that they are not independent and separate...
> > 
> > In other words, it's an infinite regress.
> > 
> > But that's what Self-reference looks like under the
> > influence of the "mistake of the intellect," and why
> > Unity consciousness cannot be accurately described
> > in terms that make sense to the intellect.  The more
> > closely you analyze the words used in the description
> > (any description), the more confusing and paradoxical
> > they become.
> > 
> > However, it can be useful to confront that confusion,
> > because the more the intellect has to deal with its
> > inadequacy to penetrate the mystery, the closer it is
> > brought to the point where it is going to have to give
> > up entirely (but also the more strenuously it fights
> > giving up).
> >
> 
> My opinion: A concept that you cannot define shouldn't be used at
> all untill you can define it.

And mine is that enlightenment *cannot be* defined as
a concept.

> The quote from Bhagavad Gita is fine:
> In a brahmin endowed with learning and humility, in
> a cow, in an elephant, in a dog and even in one who
> has lost his caste, the enlightened perceive the same.
> 
> Bhagavad-Gita, V:18
> 
> It describes something quite different than the statement:
> 
> "In Unity consciousness, there is no distinction between
> the flower, the process of seeing the flower, and
> that which sees the flower."

Uh, right.  My point was what MMY says in his commentary
about being able to distinguish a dog from a cow despite
there being no distinctions (paradoxically), in response
to your comment that my original state

[FairfieldLife] Re: MUM website, like Peter Sutphen

2005-10-31 Thread authfriend
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, off_world_beings 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, off_world_beings 
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > MUM website, like Peter Sutphen, has passed away?
> > >
> > 
> > 
> > Er, no?
> > 
> > http://www.mum.edu/
> >
> 
> It don't work.
> "The page cannot be displayed" message

Do you need to empty your browser chache, maybe?
Sometimes that helps for me when I get that message.

>






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[FairfieldLife] Re: The Experience of a Conscious Self

2005-10-31 Thread authfriend
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
> --- authfriend <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> > In other words, it's an infinite regress.
> > 
> > But that's what Self-reference looks like under the
> > influence of the "mistake of the intellect," and why
> > Unity consciousness cannot be accurately described
> > in terms that make sense to the intellect.  The more
> > closely you analyze the words used in the description
> > (any description), the more confusing and paradoxical
> > they become.
> > 
> > However, it can be useful to confront that confusion,
> > because the more the intellect has to deal with its
> > inadequacy to penetrate the mystery, the closer it
> > is brought to the point where it is going to have to
> > give up entirely (but also the more strenuously it fights
> > giving up).
> 
> Excellent post. The mind can't go where there is no
> mind. A conceptual mess is created if UC is understood
> from the phenomenological reality of waking state.
> Primarily it, enlightenment, is misunderstood as an
> experience that "I" have. Remember the book,
> "Flatland" ? I read it in a 10th grade physics class
> and it blew my mind because it helps, metaphorically,
> to understand epistemological limits that the mind is
> necessarily unaware of.

Yeah, I think "Flatland" may have been my introduction as
well to the concept that the intellect has its limits, and
to the *nature* of those limits (as you say, metaphorically,
but it's not difficult to apply the metaphor, once you've
internalized it, to various even more expansive situations
than spatial dimensions, including quantum mechanics and
states of consciousness).

Some fortunate folks are able to just dump the intellect;
others, like moi, have to fight it to the death using
the intellect as a weapon against itself (thorn to remove
a thorn).






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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Run from your houses

2005-10-31 Thread Rick Archer
on 10/31/05 7:17 AM, dhamiltony2k5 at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

> I am sorry but my transcription notes and audio tape of that meeting
> along with everything else in my life were destroyed completely in
> the fire. 

For a moment I missed the subtle joke and was going to ask when you had had
a fire. You mean the fire that occurred because you didn't run from your
house and build a SV one.  ;-)




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[FairfieldLife] Bird Flu, was: Florida News

2005-10-31 Thread Rick Archer
on 10/31/05 2:44 AM, TurquoiseB at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> 
> I'm talking about the mindset.  Having bought into
> the propaganda being distributed right now, which
> IMO is *intended to* create a sense of fear in the
> population.  T'would seem that it worked.

You don't think the bird flu thing is a real threat?




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Re: [FairfieldLife] Familiar names?

2005-10-31 Thread Rick Archer
on 10/31/05 12:36 AM, cardemaister at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

> 
> John Hoffman, 

John (now Yehudah) and I are still good friends. He no longer meditates and
is a devout Jew, living in Boca Raton, FL. Has three kids. Now going through
a divorce.

>Harry Pavelka, 

Married, working for MUM

>Anthony Antimuro

On Purusha




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[FairfieldLife] Re: The Experience of a Conscious Self

2005-10-31 Thread Irmeli Mattsson
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Irmeli Mattsson" 
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> wrote:
> > >
> > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Irmeli Mattsson" 
> > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > 
> > > > If you see a flower, who is seeing the flower? That was 
> > > > basically my question. Your answer would probably be that in 
> > > > your case the Universal Self is seeing the flower, because you 
> > > > are enlightened. But I understand also the Universal Self to be 
> > > > a subject, "I", who sees the flower.
> > > 
> > > My (purely intellectual) understanding is that in
> > > Unity consciousness, there is no distinction between
> > > the flower, the process of seeing the flower, and
> > > that which sees the flower.
> > >
> > 
> > 
> > The way you express Unity consciousness could be also understood 
> > this way: In unity consciousness the differentiation between the 
> > flower, the process of seeing the flower and that which sees the 
> > flower is not there and possible.
> > 
> > What a mess. That is the reality of a new born baby.
> 
>In a brahmin endowed with learning and humility, in
>a cow, in an elephant, in a dog and even in one who
>has lost his caste, the enlightened perceive the same.
> 
> Bhagavad-Gita, V:18
> 
> MMY comments, in part:
> 
> "The mind of the realized man is fully infused with
> the state of Being--the oneness of life--and such a mind
> naturally has oneness of vision irrespective of what it
> sees.  The apparent distinctions of relative existence
> fail to create division in its view.
> 
> "This does not mean that such a man fails to see a cow
> or is unable to distinguish it from a dog.  Certainly he
> sees a cow as a cow and a dog as a dog, but the form of
> the cow and the form of the dog fail to blind him to the
> oneness of the Self, which is the same in both.  Although
> he sees a cow and a dog, his Self is established in the
> Being of the cow and the Being of the dog, which is his
> own Being.  The Lord stresses that the enlightened man,
> while beholding and acting in the whole of diversified
> creation, does not fall from his steadfast Unity of life,
> with which his mind is saturated and which remains
> indelibly infused into his vision."
> 
> In other words, the enlightened person (presumably
> in Unity) sees both distinction and nondistinction,
> but the Unity of the person's state extends even to
> the distinction between distinction and nondistinction,
> i.e., distinction and nondistinction are not different.
> 
> > I would describe Unity consciousness like this: In Unity
> > consciousness it is seen and felt that the one who sees, the 
> > process of seeing and the seen are not independent and separate 
> > processes or entities from each other.
> 
> Nor is that which sees and feels that they are not
> independent and separate from the seeing and feeling
> thereof.  Nor is that which sees and feels that it
> is not independent and separate from the seeing and
> feeling that they are not independent and separate...
> 
> In other words, it's an infinite regress.
> 
> But that's what Self-reference looks like under the
> influence of the "mistake of the intellect," and why
> Unity consciousness cannot be accurately described
> in terms that make sense to the intellect.  The more
> closely you analyze the words used in the description
> (any description), the more confusing and paradoxical
> they become.
> 
> However, it can be useful to confront that confusion,
> because the more the intellect has to deal with its
> inadequacy to penetrate the mystery, the closer it is
> brought to the point where it is going to have to give
> up entirely (but also the more strenuously it fights
> giving up).
>

My opinion: A concept that you cannot define shouldn't be used at all
untill you can define it.

The quote from Bhagavad Gita is fine:
In a brahmin endowed with learning and humility, in
a cow, in an elephant, in a dog and even in one who
has lost his caste, the enlightened perceive the same.

Bhagavad-Gita, V:18

It describes something quite different than the statement:

"In Unity consciousness, there is no distinction between
the flower, the process of seeing the flower, and
that which sees the flower."

The former states only that one sees the same Self in all humans and
animals. The Self as subject seeing the Self as object. But it doesn't
say that the body of the cow is not seen as distinct of the seer's
body. And in that way the Bhagavad-Gita description is a good one. The
one I understand to correspond to enlightened reality.

The acid test is how this realization gets translated to one's lived
reality. In MMY:s case not too well. He claims he doesn't cater for
the poor. Who are the poor, who are distinct from himself. Why is he
collecting big property from more distant e

[FairfieldLife] Re: Peer Reviewed Journals -- the Good, Bad and the Ugly

2005-10-31 Thread off_world_beings
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "L B Shriver" 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, off_world_beings 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "L B Shriver" 
> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > >
> > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, bbrigante 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> > wrote:
> 
> 
> snip
> 
> > > > Mebbe so, but what TMer has not experienced the lessening of 
> > breath 
> > > > (which subsumes lessening of oxygen consumption), so it's a 
just 
> > a 
> > > > measurement problem -- it's not false that oxygen 
consumption is 
> > > > significantly lower in TM.
> > > >
> > > @@@
> > > 
> > > Exactly, Bobananda. However, it would be indistinguishably 
lower 
> > than if you were just 
> > > sitting with eyes closed.
> > > 
> > > L B S>>>
> > 
> > 
> > I have never in my life had anything like the experience of 
breath 
> > suspension that I get from TM, by just sitting with my eyes 
closed. 
> > The two are ENTIRELY different states of physiology, and if 
someone 
> > measures me when I am in that state of breath suspension they 
will 
> > wonder how my body is maintianed. There are yogi's who can 
sustain 
> > it for days, with VERY low oxygen consumption. Mine is unstable 
and 
> > I cannot cause it at will, but it is the same thing in lesser 
form.
> > 
> > OffWorld
> 
> 
> 
> You may be correct in this. My response to Bobananda was a 
sweeping overgeneralization 
> in that I was only referring to the average readings.
> 
> Breath suspension may be unique to meditation. I can't speak to 
this definitively because I 
> don't know if there is research on the possibility or extent of 
breath suspension among 
> those who just sit quietly with eyes closed.
> 
> L B S
> >

True. Point taken. Well said.
I have done one study. Unpublished as yet. For my whole life growing 
up as a child and an adult I have never experienced breath 
suspension whilst sitting or lying with my eyes closed. 
However in the last few years only (not when I first learned TM, or 
for many years after) I have experienced my breathing stopping for 
prolonged periods without any recovery necessary. I sometimes think 
I must be about to die. But then breathing starts again gently.

This is my one case study of sitting with eyes closed, compared to 
TM lractice or transcending associated with TM.

Anyone else had this?

OffWorld





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[FairfieldLife] Oldies but goldies : deplorable powerlessness of sound?

2005-10-31 Thread cardemaister

http://snipurl.com/jbmz





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[FairfieldLife] Re: The Experience of a Conscious Self

2005-10-31 Thread off_world_beings
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "jim_flanegin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, off_world_beings 
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > Well said. Like the person who posted the comment,
> > > "It's raining". There is no "It" that is raining.
> > > Just, "raining." It appears that there is an inner
> > > subject or "I," because consciousness projects into
> > > and assumes the boundaries of mind, and to a lessor
> > > extent, the body. So you end up with "I am having
> > > experience X" but there is no "I" having or not having
> > > anything. There is only "X". The "I" is not
> > > consciousness, but a delusion of subjectivity.
> > > Consciousness has no boundary; it is no-thing.
> > > Ramana's inquiry can bring this realization home very
> > > quickly. Try to find "I". You'll find a very abstract
> > > felt-sense of an "I" or "me". But who is aware of
> > > that? It'll become clear that this "I" is only a
> > > thought.>>
> > 
> > Then it would appear that Ramana did not have the full 
experience, 
> > only a superficial one, true though his conclusions are.
> > The true experience is not so subtle. It is an awe inspiring 
> bright 
> > homogenous energy that hums powerfully just below the surface 
and 
> > explodes into this dimension when the mind reaches it. It is 
> > unbounded, VERY powerful, even scary, but the body that is 
> > experiencing immediately knows that "this Self cannot be wetted, 
> nor 
> > burned, nor dried up, nor killed." It is who we are. It is the 
> > Universe. It is awe-inspiring and we cannot begin to imagine 
what 
> > power it holds and how it can express itself in such a limited 
> > world. This world does not seem strong enough for it to fully 
> > blossom. It would annihilate this plane if it were completely 
> > shining forth. The body could barely remain should such a power 
> show 
> > its true face in this universe.
> > This is my experience. It is the all-powerful non-me that is me, 
> > bright and powerful like the sun, only not centered in one 
place. 
> It 
> > is the One.
> > 
> > OffWorld
> >

> Nice! It is the very diversity of the world that keeps this power 
> fully blossoming. All of the gunas and their various combinations 
> express the fully blossoming force of Oneness. Every fragment, 
every 
> wholeness, indivisible and diverse, infinity in every point and 
> particle, every shadow and shape, every thought and all of 
silence, 
> whether of darkness or light, reflects this and that awesome 
power, 
> of Oneness.
>

Interesting, yes I could see how that would work. My experiences are 
so powerful it would seem good for the world for it not to come 
forth in full force, as this plane would be annihilated. But I can 
see how ever-increasing diversity can absorb its force in almost 
ininitely incremental and nanosecond steps. Unfolding infinitely, 
just like Maharishi describes. As long as it keeps creating like 
that across the whole universe and expanding the universe I could 
see how it can create. Amazing thought. Thankyou.

OffWorld






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[FairfieldLife] Definition of a Libertarian

2005-10-31 Thread shempmcgurk
A conservative who likes porn

  (Triumph the Insult Dog)





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[FairfieldLife] Re: Peer Reviewed Journals -- the Good, Bad and the Ugly

2005-10-31 Thread L B Shriver
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, off_world_beings <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "L B Shriver" 
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, bbrigante <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> wrote:


snip

> > > Mebbe so, but what TMer has not experienced the lessening of 
> breath 
> > > (which subsumes lessening of oxygen consumption), so it's a just 
> a 
> > > measurement problem -- it's not false that oxygen consumption is 
> > > significantly lower in TM.
> > >
> > @@@
> > 
> > Exactly, Bobananda. However, it would be indistinguishably lower 
> than if you were just 
> > sitting with eyes closed.
> > 
> > L B S>>>
> 
> 
> I have never in my life had anything like the experience of breath 
> suspension that I get from TM, by just sitting with my eyes closed. 
> The two are ENTIRELY different states of physiology, and if someone 
> measures me when I am in that state of breath suspension they will 
> wonder how my body is maintianed. There are yogi's who can sustain 
> it for days, with VERY low oxygen consumption. Mine is unstable and 
> I cannot cause it at will, but it is the same thing in lesser form.
> 
> OffWorld



You may be correct in this. My response to Bobananda was a sweeping 
overgeneralization 
in that I was only referring to the average readings.

Breath suspension may be unique to meditation. I can't speak to this 
definitively because I 
don't know if there is research on the possibility or extent of breath 
suspension among 
those who just sit quietly with eyes closed.

L B S
>






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[FairfieldLife] Re: MUM website, like Peter Sutphen

2005-10-31 Thread off_world_beings
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, off_world_beings 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> wrote:
> >
> > MUM website, like Peter Sutphen, has passed away?
> >
> 
> 
> Er, no?
> 
> http://www.mum.edu/
>

It don't work.
"The page cannot be displayed" message






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[FairfieldLife] Re: Peer Reviewed Journals -- the Good, Bad and the Ugly

2005-10-31 Thread off_world_beings
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "L B Shriver" 
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > Response below.
> > 
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "markmeredith2002" 
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > >
> > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, akasha_108 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, off_world_beings
> > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > 
> > > > > > My experience is that refereed journals and proceedings 
> provide 
> > > > > some degree of feedback and critique, but are not absolute 
> measures
> > > > of validity. >>>
> > > 
> > > Is anyone here familiar with what kesterton (MIU's first PhD in
> > > physiology) found in attempting to replicate Wallace's 
research.  
> > > I've been told he uncovered a serious methodological problem.
> > >
> > **
> > 
> > The methodological problem had to do with the assumption that 
the 
> reduction of oxygen 
> > consumption was due to TM practice. If I remember correctly, it 
> went something like this:
> > 
> > Subjects sitting quietly with eyes open were compared to their 
> measurements taken while 
> > meditating. The drop in oxygen consumption was attributed 
entirely 
> to TM.
> > 
> > Subsequent research showed that just sitting quietly with eyes 
> closed reduced oxygen 
> > consumption by the same amount as TM.
> > 
> > It was a bombshell that hardly anyone noticed. "O2 consumption 
> twice as low as the 
> > deepest point of sleep" had been the "proof" of TM's profundity; 
> now TM was equivalent to 
> > sitting quietly with eyes closed.
> > 
> > The next development was "metastudies" which showed that, 
according 
> to "global" 
> > measures, TM produced a state of rest twice as deep as deep 
sleep. 
> The claim was the 
> > same, but no longer based on a starkly simple, irrefutable 
> measurement. Now it was 
> > teased out of the statistics.
> > 
> > The whole thing was smoothed over within a few months.
> > 
> > L B S
> >
> 
> Except that Kesterson's finding was based on examining the 
physiology 
> of people inthe breath suspension state because the assumption was 
> that O2 consumption was driving the reduction in O2. It wasn't. 
That 
> was NOT smoothed over, and Keith Wallace's book formally 
acknowledges 
> that the early studies were flawed in that regard.

What I mean't to say was this once again speaks to the attempt at 
integrity on the part of TM researchers despite intense
bigotry from others.

Bigotry is ugliness.
OffWorld






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[FairfieldLife] Re: Peer Reviewed Journals -- the Good, Bad and the Ugly

2005-10-31 Thread off_world_beings
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "L B Shriver" 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, bbrigante <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "L B Shriver" 
> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > >
> > > Response below.
> > > 
> > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "markmeredith2002" 
> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, akasha_108 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, off_world_beings
> > > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > 
> > > > > > > My experience is that refereed journals and 
proceedings 
> > provide 
> > > > > > some degree of feedback and critique, but are not 
absolute 
> > measures
> > > > > of validity. >>>
> > > > 
> > > > Is anyone here familiar with what kesterton (MIU's first PhD 
in
> > > > physiology) found in attempting to replicate Wallace's 
> > research.  
> > > > I've been told he uncovered a serious methodological problem.
> > > >
> > > **
> > > 
> > > The methodological problem had to do with the assumption that 
the 
> > reduction of oxygen 
> > > consumption was due to TM practice. If I remember correctly, 
it 
> > went something like this:
> > > 
> > > Subjects sitting quietly with eyes open were compared to their 
> > measurements taken while 
> > > meditating. The drop in oxygen consumption was attributed 
entirely 
> > to TM.
> > > 
> > > Subsequent research showed that just sitting quietly with eyes 
> > closed reduced oxygen 
> > > consumption by the same amount as TM.
> > > 
> > > It was a bombshell that hardly anyone noticed. "O2 consumption 
> > twice as low as the 
> > > deepest point of sleep" had been the "proof" of TM's 
profundity; 
> > now TM was equivalent to 
> > > sitting quietly with eyes closed.
> > > 
> > > The next development was "metastudies" which showed that, 
> > according to "global" 
> > > measures, TM produced a state of rest twice as deep as deep 
sleep. 
> > The claim was the 
> > > same, but no longer based on a starkly simple, irrefutable 
> > measurement. Now it was 
> > > teased out of the statistics.
> > > 
> > > The whole thing was smoothed over within a few months.
> > > 
> > > L B S
> > >
> > 
> > **
> > 
> > Mebbe so, but what TMer has not experienced the lessening of 
breath 
> > (which subsumes lessening of oxygen consumption), so it's a just 
a 
> > measurement problem -- it's not false that oxygen consumption is 
> > significantly lower in TM.
> >
> @@@
> 
> Exactly, Bobananda. However, it would be indistinguishably lower 
than if you were just 
> sitting with eyes closed.
> 
> L B S>>>


I have never in my life had anything like the experience of breath 
suspension that I get from TM, by just sitting with my eyes closed. 
The two are ENTIRELY different states of physiology, and if someone 
measures me when I am in that state of breath suspension they will 
wonder how my body is maintianed. There are yogi's who can sustain 
it for days, with VERY low oxygen consumption. Mine is unstable and 
I cannot cause it at will, but it is the same thing in lesser form.

OffWorld





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[FairfieldLife] Re: Fwd: [Transcendental_Meditation] Maharish's beautiful comment on Mahalakshmi

2005-10-31 Thread off_world_beings
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ron F <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Note: forwarded message attached.
> 
> This is Maharishi's beautiful comment on
> Mahalakshmi...very timely for this auspicious
> occasion...DIVALI day>>

Is this Divali Day?
I felt her presence when I woke up and when I looked in the mirror I 
looked softer and more vibrant than I have looked in months, like she 
was with me. 
I love Mahalakshmi. If there is nothing else, Mahalaksmi is always 
there for us. It is the only thing that has made me want to become a 
devotee of anyone or anything.

OffWorld





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[FairfieldLife] Re: Peer Reviewed Journals -- the Good, Bad and the Ugly

2005-10-31 Thread off_world_beings
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, bbrigante <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "L B Shriver" 
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > Response below.
> > 
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "markmeredith2002" 
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > >
> > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, akasha_108 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, off_world_beings
> > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > 
> > > > > > My experience is that refereed journals and proceedings 
> provide 
> > > > > some degree of feedback and critique, but are not absolute 
> measures
> > > > of validity. >>>
> > > 
> > > Is anyone here familiar with what kesterton (MIU's first PhD in
> > > physiology) found in attempting to replicate Wallace's 
> research.  
> > > I've been told he uncovered a serious methodological problem.
> > >
> > **
> > 
> > The methodological problem had to do with the assumption that 
the 
> reduction of oxygen 
> > consumption was due to TM practice. If I remember correctly, it 
> went something like this:
> > 
> > Subjects sitting quietly with eyes open were compared to their 
> measurements taken while 
> > meditating. The drop in oxygen consumption was attributed 
entirely 
> to TM.
> > 
> > Subsequent research showed that just sitting quietly with eyes 
> closed reduced oxygen 
> > consumption by the same amount as TM.
> > 
> > It was a bombshell that hardly anyone noticed. "O2 consumption 
> twice as low as the 
> > deepest point of sleep" had been the "proof" of TM's profundity; 
> now TM was equivalent to 
> > sitting quietly with eyes closed.
> > 
> > The next development was "metastudies" which showed that, 
> according to "global" 
> > measures, TM produced a state of rest twice as deep as deep 
sleep. 
> The claim was the 
> > same, but no longer based on a starkly simple, irrefutable 
> measurement. Now it was 
> > teased out of the statistics.
> > 
> > The whole thing was smoothed over within a few months.
> > 
> > L B S
> >
> 
> **
> 
> Mebbe so, but what TMer has not experienced the lessening of 
breath 
> (which subsumes lessening of oxygen consumption), so it's a just a 
> measurement problem -- it's not false that oxygen consumption is 
> significantly lower in TM.>>>

This is true, it is so static sometimes and long lasting that is 
seems impossible that I am not breathing.

OffWorld





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[FairfieldLife] Re: Peer Reviewed Journals -- the Good, Bad and the Ugly

2005-10-31 Thread off_world_beings
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, off_world_beings 
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "L B Shriver" 
> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > >
> > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, off_world_beings 
> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "L B Shriver" 
> > > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Response below.
> > > > > 
> > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "markmeredith2002" 
> > > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, akasha_108 
> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> > > > wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, off_world_beings
> > > > > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > 
> > > > > > > > > My experience is that refereed journals and 
> > proceedings 
> > > > provide 
> > > > > > > > some degree of feedback and critique, but are not 
> > absolute 
> > > > measures
> > > > > > > of validity. >>>
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > Is anyone here familiar with what kesterton (MIU's first 
> PhD 
> > in
> > > > > > physiology) found in attempting to replicate Wallace's 
> > > > research.  
> > > > > > I've been told he uncovered a serious methodological 
> problem.
> > > > > >
> > > > > **
> > > > > 
> > > > > The methodological problem had to do with the assumption 
that 
> > the 
> > > > reduction of oxygen 
> > > > > consumption was due to TM practice. If I remember 
correctly, 
> > it 
> > > > went something like this:
> > > > > 
> > > > > Subjects sitting quietly with eyes open were compared to 
> their 
> > > > measurements taken while 
> > > > > meditating. The drop in oxygen consumption was attributed 
> > entirely 
> > > > to TM.
> > > > > 
> > > > > Subsequent research showed that just sitting quietly with 
> eyes 
> > > > closed reduced oxygen 
> > > > > consumption by the same amount as TM.
> > > > > 
> > > > > It was a bombshell that hardly anyone noticed. "O2 
> consumption 
> > > > twice as low as the 
> > > > > deepest point of sleep" had been the "proof" of TM's 
> > profundity; 
> > > > now TM was equivalent to 
> > > > > sitting quietly with eyes closed.
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > Wow, still relying on unpublished research and rumor are we? 
> > Hardly 
> > > > a 'bombshell'. Unpublished gossip, another arrow to the 
bigot's 
> > bow.
> > > > 
> > > > OffWorld
> > > >
> > > 
> > > 
> > > If you are referring to Kesterson's research, you might wish 
to 
> > consider that it was 
> > > included in the dissertation for which MIU awarded his PhD.
> > > 
> > > L B S>>.
> > 
> > I am really only interested in research published in peer-
reviewed 
> > journals, though I am sure the research you cite is good, it has 
no 
> > meaning to the world as it stands, and even if it were published 
it 
> > has been somewhat swamped and washed away by the hundreds of 
other 
> > studies showing more important results and the 20 million + 
dollars 
> > in hard won grant money given by the NIH.
> > 
> > OffWorld
> >
> 
> Which have nothing to do with O2 consumption, since Kesterson 
> published his research...>>

Maybe because nobody really cares about O2 consumption, but they do 
care about hypertension and heart disease strategies, and 
behavioural modifications in felons.

OffWorld





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[FairfieldLife] Re: Peer Reviewed Journals -- the Good, Bad and the Ugly (PS)

2005-10-31 Thread off_world_beings
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "L B Shriver" 
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "L B Shriver" 
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > >
> > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, off_world_beings 
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "L B Shriver" 
> > > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Response below.
> > > > > 
> > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "markmeredith2002" 
> > > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, akasha_108 
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> > > > wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, off_world_beings
> > > > > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > 
> > > > > > > > > My experience is that refereed journals and 
> proceedings 
> > > > provide 
> > > > > > > > some degree of feedback and critique, but are not 
> absolute 
> > > > measures
> > > > > > > of validity. >>>
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > Is anyone here familiar with what kesterton (MIU's first 
> PhD in
> > > > > > physiology) found in attempting to replicate Wallace's 
> > > > research.  
> > > > > > I've been told he uncovered a serious methodological 
> problem.
> > > > > >
> > > > > **
> > > > > 
> > > > > The methodological problem had to do with the assumption 
that 
> the 
> > > > reduction of oxygen 
> > > > > consumption was due to TM practice. If I remember 
correctly, 
> it 
> > > > went something like this:
> > > > > 
> > > > > Subjects sitting quietly with eyes open were compared to 
> their 
> > > > measurements taken while 
> > > > > meditating. The drop in oxygen consumption was attributed 
> entirely 
> > > > to TM.
> > > > > 
> > > > > Subsequent research showed that just sitting quietly with 
> eyes 
> > > > closed reduced oxygen 
> > > > > consumption by the same amount as TM.
> > > > > 
> > > > > It was a bombshell that hardly anyone noticed. "O2 
> consumption 
> > > > twice as low as the 
> > > > > deepest point of sleep" had been the "proof" of TM's 
> profundity; 
> > > > now TM was equivalent to 
> > > > > sitting quietly with eyes closed.
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > Wow, still relying on unpublished research and rumor are we? 
> Hardly 
> > > > a 'bombshell'. Unpublished gossip, another arrow to the 
bigot's 
> bow.
> > > > 
> > > > OffWorld
> > > >
> > > 
> > > 
> > > If you are referring to Kesterson's research, you might wish 
to 
> consider that it was 
> > > included in the dissertation for which MIU awarded his PhD.
> > > 
> > > L B S
> > >
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > By the way, I discussed Kesterson's research with Keith, and he 
> confirmed to me that 
> > Kesterson's findings were correct.
> > 
> > L B S
> >
> 
> ANd Keith has written about how things have changed since he first 
> started doing researchon TM 35 years ago.>>

And he did so LONG before Stephen Hawkings stated last year that his 
theory from the 1960's on black holes may be incorrect, and may not 
exist after all. This is a MUCH bigger flaw, and his whole career 
was built on it. He is still treated like God by physicists and 
laymen alike.





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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Experience of a Conscious Self

2005-10-31 Thread Peter


--- authfriend <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Irmeli
> Mattsson" 
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend"
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> wrote:
> > >
> > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Irmeli
> Mattsson" 
> > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > 
> > > > If you see a flower, who is seeing the flower?
> That was 
> > > > basically my question. Your answer would
> probably be that in 
> > > > your case the Universal Self is seeing the
> flower, because you 
> > > > are enlightened. But I understand also the
> Universal Self to be 
> > > > a subject, "I", who sees the flower.
> > > 
> > > My (purely intellectual) understanding is that
> in
> > > Unity consciousness, there is no distinction
> between
> > > the flower, the process of seeing the flower,
> and
> > > that which sees the flower.
> > >
> > 
> > 
> > The way you express Unity consciousness could be
> also understood 
> > this way: In unity consciousness the
> differentiation between the 
> > flower, the process of seeing the flower and that
> which sees the 
> > flower is not there and possible.
> > 
> > What a mess. That is the reality of a new born
> baby.
> 
>In a brahmin endowed with learning and humility,
> in
>a cow, in an elephant, in a dog and even in one
> who
>has lost his caste, the enlightened perceive the
> same.
> 
> Bhagavad-Gita, V:18
> 
> MMY comments, in part:
> 
> "The mind of the realized man is fully infused with
> the state of Being--the oneness of life--and such a
> mind
> naturally has oneness of vision irrespective of what
> it
> sees.  The apparent distinctions of relative
> existence
> fail to create division in its view.
> 
> "This does not mean that such a man fails to see a
> cow
> or is unable to distinguish it from a dog. 
> Certainly he
> sees a cow as a cow and a dog as a dog, but the form
> of
> the cow and the form of the dog fail to blind him to
> the
> oneness of the Self, which is the same in both. 
> Although
> he sees a cow and a dog, his Self is established in
> the
> Being of the cow and the Being of the dog, which is
> his
> own Being.  The Lord stresses that the enlightened
> man,
> while beholding and acting in the whole of
> diversified
> creation, does not fall from his steadfast Unity of
> life,
> with which his mind is saturated and which remains
> indelibly infused into his vision."
> 
> In other words, the enlightened person (presumably
> in Unity) sees both distinction and nondistinction,
> but the Unity of the person's state extends even to
> the distinction between distinction and
> nondistinction,
> i.e., distinction and nondistinction are not
> different.
> 
> > I would describe Unity consciousness like this: In
> Unity
> > consciousness it is seen and felt that the one who
> sees, the 
> > process of seeing and the seen are not independent
> and separate 
> > processes or entities from each other.
> 
> Nor is that which sees and feels that they are not
> independent and separate from the seeing and feeling
> thereof.  Nor is that which sees and feels that it
> is not independent and separate from the seeing and
> feeling that they are not independent and
> separate...
> 
> In other words, it's an infinite regress.
> 
> But that's what Self-reference looks like under the
> influence of the "mistake of the intellect," and why
> Unity consciousness cannot be accurately described
> in terms that make sense to the intellect.  The more
> closely you analyze the words used in the
> description
> (any description), the more confusing and
> paradoxical
> they become.
> 
> However, it can be useful to confront that
> confusion,
> because the more the intellect has to deal with its
> inadequacy to penetrate the mystery, the closer it
> is
> brought to the point where it is going to have to
> give
> up entirely (but also the more strenuously it fights
> giving up).

Excellent post. The mind can't go where there is no
mind. A conceptual mess is created if UC is understood
from the phenomenological reality of waking state.
Primarily it, enlightenment, is misunderstood as an
experience that "I" have. Remember the book,
"Flatland" ? I read it in a 10th grade physics class
and it blew my mind because it helps, metaphorically,
to understand epistemological limits that the mind is
necessarily unaware of.




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[FairfieldLife] Re: Peer Reviewed Journals -- the Good, Bad and the Ugly

2005-10-31 Thread L B Shriver
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, bbrigante <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "L B Shriver" 

snip

 > …now TM was equivalent to 
> > > sitting quietly with eyes closed.

snip

> Than what? Keith Wallace sez that prone resting shows the lowest O2 
> consumption. You're behind the times...
>


Haven't you read The Electic Koolaid Acid Test? We're all behind the times. The 
closest 
anyone gets is 1/30 of a second.

L B S






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[FairfieldLife] Re: Peer Reviewed Journals -- the Good, Bad and the Ugly

2005-10-31 Thread off_world_beings
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "L B Shriver" 
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > Response below.
> > 
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "markmeredith2002" 
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > >
> > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, akasha_108 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, off_world_beings
> > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > 
> > > > > > My experience is that refereed journals and proceedings 
> provide 
> > > > > some degree of feedback and critique, but are not absolute 
> measures
> > > > of validity. >>>
> > > 
> > > Is anyone here familiar with what kesterton (MIU's first PhD in
> > > physiology) found in attempting to replicate Wallace's 
research.  
> > > I've been told he uncovered a serious methodological problem.
> > >
> > **
> > 
> > The methodological problem had to do with the assumption that 
the 
> reduction of oxygen 
> > consumption was due to TM practice. If I remember correctly, it 
> went something like this:
> > 
> > Subjects sitting quietly with eyes open were compared to their 
> measurements taken while 
> > meditating. The drop in oxygen consumption was attributed 
entirely 
> to TM.
> > 
> > Subsequent research showed that just sitting quietly with eyes 
> closed reduced oxygen 
> > consumption by the same amount as TM.
> > 
> > It was a bombshell that hardly anyone noticed. "O2 consumption 
> twice as low as the 
> > deepest point of sleep" had been the "proof" of TM's profundity; 
> now TM was equivalent to 
> > sitting quietly with eyes closed.
> > 
> > The next development was "metastudies" which showed that, 
according 
> to "global" 
> > measures, TM produced a state of rest twice as deep as deep 
sleep. 
> The claim was the 
> > same, but no longer based on a starkly simple, irrefutable 
> measurement. Now it was 
> > teased out of the statistics.
> > 
> > The whole thing was smoothed over within a few months.
> > 
> > L B S
> >
> 
> Except that Kesterson's finding was based on examining the 
physiology 
> of people inthe breath suspension state because the assumption was 
> that O2 consumption was driving the reduction in O2. It wasn't. 
That 
> was NOT smoothed over, and Keith Wallace's book formally 
acknowledges 
> that the early studies were flawed in that regard.

This once again speaks to the attempt at integrity despite intense 
bigotry on the part of TM researchers. 

Bigotry is ugliness.
OffWorld





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[FairfieldLife] Re: Maharishi's designated successor..

2005-10-31 Thread Irmeli Mattsson
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Yet that "condition" of enlightenment, for lack of a
> better concept, is "outside" of any story. I see one
> of the great "shocks" to the mind in enlightenment is 
> the utter "emptiness" of consciousness. It implies
> nothing in the relative either good or bad. There is
> no "story" of enlightenment. Stories are for the mind
> only in avidya to entertain itself and to stay
> attached to a discourse of enlightenment-something
> that has nothing to do with enlightenment! Like
> someone fantasizing what it will be like to be
> enlightened. It has nothing to do with enlightenment
> and actually "prevents" enlightenment.  
> 

Yes the "condition" of enlightenment is not a concept or a story.
But we humans have the capacity through language symbolically describe
different conditions, phenomenon and processes. It is a wonderful tool
as long as we don't mix symbolic representation with the real phenomenon.
As we communicate a lot through this symbolic representation called
language, we should try to define the concepts we use as precisely as
possible.
The word enlightenment is an important symbolic representation, but it
should be defined accurately each time somebody uses it. Different
people mean quite different things by that concept. And that creates
unnecessary confusion and arguing.
Theories or fables or stories are not just something to entertain
oneself with. They have an important role in our making sense of our
lived reality and the universe. Problematic they become if you
consider them as absolute truth, and even more so if you get punished
when testing or questioning those theories.

Kali-juga is a fable I have very difficult to relate to at all. I
cannot see any useful sense in it.

Irmeli









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[FairfieldLife] Re: The Experience of a Conscious Self

2005-10-31 Thread authfriend
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Irmeli Mattsson" 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Irmeli Mattsson" 
> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > 
> > > If you see a flower, who is seeing the flower? That was 
> > > basically my question. Your answer would probably be that in 
> > > your case the Universal Self is seeing the flower, because you 
> > > are enlightened. But I understand also the Universal Self to be 
> > > a subject, "I", who sees the flower.
> > 
> > My (purely intellectual) understanding is that in
> > Unity consciousness, there is no distinction between
> > the flower, the process of seeing the flower, and
> > that which sees the flower.
> >
> 
> 
> The way you express Unity consciousness could be also understood 
> this way: In unity consciousness the differentiation between the 
> flower, the process of seeing the flower and that which sees the 
> flower is not there and possible.
> 
> What a mess. That is the reality of a new born baby.

   In a brahmin endowed with learning and humility, in
   a cow, in an elephant, in a dog and even in one who
   has lost his caste, the enlightened perceive the same.

Bhagavad-Gita, V:18

MMY comments, in part:

"The mind of the realized man is fully infused with
the state of Being--the oneness of life--and such a mind
naturally has oneness of vision irrespective of what it
sees.  The apparent distinctions of relative existence
fail to create division in its view.

"This does not mean that such a man fails to see a cow
or is unable to distinguish it from a dog.  Certainly he
sees a cow as a cow and a dog as a dog, but the form of
the cow and the form of the dog fail to blind him to the
oneness of the Self, which is the same in both.  Although
he sees a cow and a dog, his Self is established in the
Being of the cow and the Being of the dog, which is his
own Being.  The Lord stresses that the enlightened man,
while beholding and acting in the whole of diversified
creation, does not fall from his steadfast Unity of life,
with which his mind is saturated and which remains
indelibly infused into his vision."

In other words, the enlightened person (presumably
in Unity) sees both distinction and nondistinction,
but the Unity of the person's state extends even to
the distinction between distinction and nondistinction,
i.e., distinction and nondistinction are not different.

> I would describe Unity consciousness like this: In Unity
> consciousness it is seen and felt that the one who sees, the 
> process of seeing and the seen are not independent and separate 
> processes or entities from each other.

Nor is that which sees and feels that they are not
independent and separate from the seeing and feeling
thereof.  Nor is that which sees and feels that it
is not independent and separate from the seeing and
feeling that they are not independent and separate...

In other words, it's an infinite regress.

But that's what Self-reference looks like under the
influence of the "mistake of the intellect," and why
Unity consciousness cannot be accurately described
in terms that make sense to the intellect.  The more
closely you analyze the words used in the description
(any description), the more confusing and paradoxical
they become.

However, it can be useful to confront that confusion,
because the more the intellect has to deal with its
inadequacy to penetrate the mystery, the closer it is
brought to the point where it is going to have to give
up entirely (but also the more strenuously it fights
giving up).






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[FairfieldLife] Re: A "Take it as it comes" quote

2005-10-31 Thread uns_tressor
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
>
> 
> Flow with whatever may happen
> and let your mind be free;
> Stay centered by accepting whatever you are doing.
> This is the ultimate.
> 
> -Chuang Tsu

Come on, lads. This sounds like the founding 
principle of daytime TV. Shouldn't it begin 
with "First get a six pack".
Uns.






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[FairfieldLife] Re: The Experience of a Conscious Self

2005-10-31 Thread Irmeli Mattsson
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> You are confounding a subjective self with
> consciousness. This is the condition of avidya and the
> phenomenological reality of ignorance-there is a
> subjective, separate self. But in enlightenment it
> becomes quite clear that there is no subjective,
> separate self. There is no "I" of avidya. That goes
> away and there is nothing left...and that no-thing is
> consciousness.
> 

I'm not claiming there is a separate self. I'm claiming we all operate
and interact in this world as entities we perceive or call as "I" or
subject.

I don't know the meaning of concept avidya. If you have read some of
my posts you should know by now that I'm not familiar with Hindu or
Buddhist concepts, except the most common ones. I find it quite odd to
hide behind such concepts, if your purpose is to help me really to
understand what you are trying to communicate.

I am not confounding subjective self with consciousness. I'm saying
quite the opposite the "I", the subject, is the unconscious part of
ourselves. If we become conscious of some aspects of the "I", it is
not anymore in the "I". This becoming more and more aware is
consciousness evolution. If enlightenment is defined as having nothing
anymore to uncover from the "I", I don't think anyone on this planet
so far has been enlightened and will not be for a very long time.
You are not answering the essential questions in my post. Did you even
read with thought and a calm, open mind what I wrote. I suspect you
just reacted, because your ego felt a hurt. It is totally human, I
could have reacted that way too. The only difference is I don't claim
myself to be beyond those reactions and take responsibility for that
kind of behaviour, if it appears, and try to avoid it by looking at
issues from several angles.

If you see a flower, who is seeing the flower? That was basically my
question. Your answer would probably be that in your case the
Universal Self is seeing the flower, because you are enlightened. But
I understand also the Universal Self to be a subject, "I", who sees
the flower. And isn't actually the Universal Self the one who sees
through every eye in every consciousness everywhere at all times,
while all these subjective small selfs (waves) also feel quite
correctly simultaneously themselves to be the subject, who sees that
part of reality which they manage to see through their instrument.

Irmeli





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Re: [FairfieldLife] Time

2005-10-31 Thread Vaj
Breath = Time


On Oct 30, 2005, at 10:58 PM, tomandcindytraynoratfairfieldlis wrote:

> A friend asked a question about where time fits into this whole E gig.
> In looking back at Patanjali (Shearer version) I happened to look at
> the end of both chapters 3 Expansion and 4 Enlightenment and thought
> some might like to ponder his points on Time.
>
> Chapter 3 Expansion
> Sutra 52 From Sanyama on moments and their succession, the finest
> discriminative knowledge is born.
>
> Sutra 53 This enables us to distinguish between two objects that are
> to all appearances identical.
>
> Sutra 54 Knowledge born of the finest discrimination takes us to the
> farthest shore.
>
> Sutra 55 And when the translucent intellect is as pure as the Self,
> there is Enlightenment.
>
> Chapter 4 Enlightenment
>
> Sutra 31 Knowledge which has been freed from the veils of impurity is
> unbounded.
> Whatever can be known is insignificant in its light.
>
> Sutra 32 This samadhi completes the transformations of the gunas and
> fulfils the purpose of evolution.
>
> Sutra 33 Now the process by which evolution unfolds through time is
> understood.
>
> Sutra 34 The gunas, their purpose fulfilled, return to their original
> state of harmony, and pure unbounded Consciousness remains, forever
> established in its own absolute nature.
> This is Enlightenment.
>
> What struck me was in Chapter 3 Time was used to gain the first stage
> of E and in Chapter 4 Time is essential to the evolution of the three
> gunas which appears to be the end state. This seems to suggest that
> what is the opening at the end of Chapter 3 reaches closure at the end
> of Chapter 4 and the entire teaching of this sage.
> Tom T
>


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[FairfieldLife] Re: The Experience of a Conscious Self

2005-10-31 Thread Irmeli Mattsson
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Irmeli Mattsson" 
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> > If you see a flower, who is seeing the flower? That was basically my
> > question. Your answer would probably be that in your case the
> > Universal Self is seeing the flower, because you are enlightened. 
> > But I understand also the Universal Self to be a subject, "I", who 
> > sees the flower.
> 
> My (purely intellectual) understanding is that in
> Unity consciousness, there is no distinction between
> the flower, the process of seeing the flower, and
> that which sees the flower.
>


The way you express Unity consciousness could be also understood this
way: In unity consciousness the differentiation between the flower,
the process of seeing the flower and that which sees the flower is not
there and possible.

What a mess. That is the reality of a new born baby.

I would describe Unity consciousness like this: In Unity consciousness
it is seen and felt that the one who sees, the process of seeing and
the seen are not independent and separate processes or entities from
each other. 

Irmeli

Irmeli


Irmeli





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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Experience of a Conscious Self

2005-10-31 Thread Vaj


On Oct 31, 2005, at 8:42 AM, authfriend wrote:--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Irmeli Mattsson"  <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:  If you see a flower, who is seeing the flower? That was basically my question. Your answer would probably be that in your case the Universal Self is seeing the flower, because you are enlightened.  But I understand also the Universal Self to be a subject, "I", who  sees the flower.  My (purely intellectual) understanding is that in Unity consciousness, there is no distinction between the flower, the process of seeing the flower, and that which sees the flower. And also, even in glimpses of Unity it is said that other people appear as "Dakas and Dakinis"--divine beings--even before actualization of actual enlightenment in these people.





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Ramana maharshi
  
  

   
  







  
  
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[FairfieldLife] Re: Florida News

2005-10-31 Thread vashtirama
It's very similar to dealing with hurricanes. You can't just wait 
until they hit. On the other hand, predictions of where one will hit 
and at what strength are not that dependable. You can't get freaked 
out everytime, and you can't be complacent either.

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> wrote:
> 
> > If it becomes a real issue, I will deal with it as
> > a real issue.  At this point, making a lot of plans
> > for how I'm going to deal with an imaginary epidemic
> > makes as much sense to me as stocking up on tinfoil
> > to protect myself from the alien invasion.
> 
> Not really, because a pandemic is vastly more likely
> than an alien invasion; and while there are known
> effective measures to take against the flu, even if
> aliens did invade it's hardly likely that tinfoil
> would serve as protection.
> 
> As to dealing with it when it becomes "a real issue,"
> the problem there is that when it becomes a real
> issue, everybody *else* is going to be dealing with
> it as well, many in panic mode, emptying supermarkets,
> hoarding gasoline, buying up generators, and so on.
> The kind of supplies and equipment you'd need to be
> able to isolate yourself will quickly become
> unavailable.
> 
> It's a real dilemma to figure out what measures it
> makes sense to take at this stage.
>






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[FairfieldLife] Re: The Experience of a Conscious Self

2005-10-31 Thread authfriend
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Irmeli Mattsson" 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> If you see a flower, who is seeing the flower? That was basically my
> question. Your answer would probably be that in your case the
> Universal Self is seeing the flower, because you are enlightened. 
> But I understand also the Universal Self to be a subject, "I", who 
> sees the flower.

My (purely intellectual) understanding is that in
Unity consciousness, there is no distinction between
the flower, the process of seeing the flower, and
that which sees the flower.






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