[FairfieldLife] correction to correction
They fooled me. Starts now (1:20). L B S To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] correction on Science Friday
Second hour. 2 pm today, FF time. L B S To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Talk of the Nation: persistent vegetative states, etc.
NPR's Talk of the Nation Science Friday will discuss the clinical issues currently under debate in the Schiavo casepersistent vegetative states and minimal consciousness at 1 pm today FF time. The program will also be available in the archive at NPR.org if you would like to hear it but read this too late or have conflicting plans. L B S To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: More about Hammesfahr
Guys, when you saw the names "Hannity and Colmes" that should have been enough to tell you it was bogus. L B S --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Alex Stanley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > > Here is the article from Quackwatch. Notice there is no > > mention of any Nobel-prize nominated work. A read-through > > will make pretty clear why. > > I sniffed around Google and found this: > > http://uspolitics.about.com/b/a/2005_03_23.htm > > About the Schiavo "Nobel Prize Nominated" Doctor > Amended 23 March. NewsMax reports that Dr. William Hammesfahr > "believes that Terri Schiavo can recover with proper treatment." > NewsMax -- along with FOX, MSNBC, the National Review and Dr. > Hammesfahr's website -- indicates that he was nominated for the Nobel > Prize in 1999. > > From Nobel Prize FAQ (emphasis added): > > 3. Has X been nominated as a candidate for the Nobel Prize, or > where do I find a list of Nobel Prize nominees? > > According to the Statutes of the Nobel Foundation, information > about the nominations is not to be disclosed, publicly or privately, > for a period of fifty years. The restriction not only concerns the > nominees and nominators, but also investigations and opinions in the > awarding of a prize. Nomination information older than fifty years is > public. > > So, if he had been truly nominated -- he would be violating > fundamental Nobel Foundation principles to say that. The 50 year vow > of silence is up in 2049. But wait. There's more. > > The Tampa Tribune reported in 2003 that the Nobel Prize nomination > was a letter written by Hammesfahr's Congressman to the Nobel > committee. > > The Nobel Prize website articulates the nomination procedure: a > letter from a Congressman isn't on the list. Does the Nobel Committee > consider these "informal" nominations? In a word: no. (and a nod to > News Hounds) > > The Florida court found Hammesfahr's 2002 testimony in the Schiavo > case to be anecdotal. A quick review of the handful of published > research on his web site makes that judgment abundantly clear. It > reminds me of the "doctor-by-mail-order" materials that land by the > truckload in my parents' mailbox each month. > > Censured by Florida Board of Medicine > In 2003, the Florida Board of Medicine fined him $2,000 for billing a > patient for services not received, forced him to pay $52,000 in court > costs, and directed him to perform 100 hours of community service. > (cite - pdf) The Board of Medicine also > > ruled that Hammesfahr's treatment of stroke patients, using a > procedure he has claimed could help Terri Schiavo, was "not within > the generally accepted standard of care" (Finding of Fact No. 55, PDF > p. 33), it declined to rule that the treatment was harmful to his > patients and noted that some patients improved after treatment. > (cite) > > In March 2004, an appeals court determined that Hammesfahr did charge > a patient $3,000 for three days of services; however, the patient > received only two days of services. The appeals court reversed the > fine: > > The record contains competent, substantial evidence to support > the Board's finding that the patient enrolled in a $3000 > treatment program but only received a $2000 treatment program. > However, the record does not contain clear and convincing evidence to > support the Board's conclusion that the overcharge was the result > of exploitation for financial gain under section 458.331(1)(n)... At > best, the facts in this case provide a basis for a civil contract > dispute between the parties. > > Compares Stroke Treatment to Oxygen-Deprived Brain Injury > On 18 March, he was interviewed on Christian Broadcasting Network's > 700 Club, where he reportedly said that "about 40 percent of his > patients are worse than Terri, yet have seen remarkable progress. He > says Terri would do just as well." (cite) > > Note that Schiavo did not have a stroke. A stroke is caused by > reduced blood flow to the brain. (My mother had a stroke; I'm > familiar with the cause and effects.) Schiavo's brain injury is due > to reduced oxygen flow. > > For the record, I started pursuing this before I ran across it at > MediaMatters. All it took was one look at his website -- which > screams "no credibility" -- to hit Google. A former patient > (self-reported) had already found the Nobel Prize information: it > shows up in a discussion board using the Google search string > [Hammesfahr nobel prize nominee]. > > I am appalled that mainstream journalists have not done this basic > vetting. > > According to Media Matters, both FOX and MSNBC have had this man on > screen, introducing him as a Nobel Prize nominee. He has been held up > as a "world-renowned expert" and Nobel Prize nominee by the National > Review -- a publication that, until now, I thought of as > journalistically sound with a conservative editorial p
[FairfieldLife] Poll: Evangelicals Oppose Gov't on Schiavo
Thu Mar 24, 8:33 AM ET U.S. National - AP By The Associated Press More than two-thirds of people who describe themselves as evangelicals and conservatives disapprove of the intervention by Congress and President Bush (news - web sites) in the case of the Terri Schiavo, the brain-damaged woman at the center of a national debate. A CBS News poll found that four of five people polled opposed federal intervention, with levels of disapproval among key groups supporting the GOP almost that high. Bush's overall approval was at 43 percent, down from 49 percent last month. Over the weekend, Republicans in Congress pushed through emergency legislation aimed at prolonging Schiavo's life by allowing the case to be reviewed by federal courts. That bill was signed by the president early Monday. Most Americans say they feel sympathy for family members on both sides of the dispute over the 41-year-old Schiavo, according to a CNN-USA Today-Gallup poll. More than eight in 10 in that poll said they feel sympathy for Bob and Mary Schindler, parents of Schiavo, who want to keep her alive. And seven in 10 said they're sympathetic for Michael Schiavo, the husband of Schiavo who says she should be allowed to die. The CBS News poll of 737 adults was taken Monday and Tuesday and the CNN-USA Today-Gallup poll of 620 adults was taken Tuesday. Both have margins of sampling error of plus or minus 4 percentage points To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] India's Clampdown on Generic Drugs Imperils World's Poor, Say Advocates
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Length: 6088 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 69.66.136.136 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Yahoo-GPoster: 2wZr8V6PRQK_Jdra Published on Wednesday, March 23, 2005 by OneWorld.net by Abid Aslam =A0 WASHINGTON -- Indian lawmakers adopted a new patent law Tuesday that would = ban domestic firms from making low-cost generic versions of patented drugs. Hea= lth campaigners warned that as a consequence, millions of people around the wor= ld would be denied access to cheap life-saving medicines. The Lok Sabha, parliament's lower house, approved the legislation after the= government agreed to demands from leftist allies and made several last-minute amendmen= ts to placate concerns that the new law would help multinational companies gain d= ominance and push up prices in the Indian market. International aid groups, however, said the law would restrict the ability = of Indian companies to supply generic drugs to Africa and other poor regions. With re= spect to AIDS alone, the effect would be to threaten the survival of hundreds of thousand= s of current patients and millions more who had hoped the medicines would become more wi= dely available, not less. ''The patent law will cut the lifeline to other countries,'' said Ellen 't = Hoen, policy advocacy and research director at Doctors Without Borders' campaign for access to es= sential medicines. The measure was expected to become law later this week after being cleared = by the upper house. It stemmed from India's membership of the World Trade Organization (= WTO), which enhances the South Asian powerhouse's participation in global commerce but = requires the country to tighten patent rules for its $5 billion pharmaceutical industry.= It would replace a long standing policy of allowing local firms to make gen= eric versions of Western drugs so long as these involved modified production processes. This= approach helped to foster a strong drug manufacturing industry in India for more tha= n three decades and turned the country into a leading supplier of inexpensive pharm= aceuticals to the rest of the world. India exports two-thirds of its pharmaceutical output to developing countri= es, according to the World Health Organization. Generic competition fueled by Indian drug= s has been largely responsible for reducing the prices of antiretroviral drugs used to= treat AIDS, in some cases by as much as 98 percent. ''We are deeply disturbed and concerned that you are failing to listen to t= he voices of your people who have entrusted you with their welfare, not to mention the poor i= n the developing world who rely on affordable medicine from India,'' Hoen of Pari= s-based Doctors Without Borders and representatives from other aid groups said in a= letter to Sonia Gandhi, leader of the governing Congress Party. The new measure empowers the government to override a patent on a medicine = if such a large number of people need it and cannot afford it that this constitutes a= national emergency. Despite having some 5.1 million people infected with the AIDS-causing HIV v= irus--the second largest number after South Africa--the disease is not seen as a nati= onal emergency and Indian companies will therefore no longer be allowed to copy = new inventions in AIDS treatment, said Doctors Without Borders, also known by i= ts French initials MSF. In the case of AIDS, Indian modifications have revolutionized treatment. We= stern cocktails of up to three separate drugs have been combined into one pill, for example= , reducing costs and making it easier for poor people to keep up with treatment under = difficult circumstances. Of the 700,000 people receiving antiretroviral treatment in developing coun= tries, half rely on Indian generics. MSF said it treats 25,000 people in 27 countries and ro= ughly 70 percent of these patients use Indian-made drugs. Before generic drugs became widely available in 2001, similar treatments co= st more than $10,000 per patient per year--40 times more than the $250 average price of = such treatment in MSF programs today. Groups voicing concern about the supply of cheap drugs have run the gamut f= rom international aid agencies like ActionAid and Oxfam and health campaigners = like Health GAP (Global Access Project) to regional organizations like Washington-based= Africa Action, a group more accustomed to working on U.S. policy toward the continent. Brazil, Canada, China, Singapore, and South Africa are among other countrie= s producing generic drugs. India is the biggest producer, however, and its companies ma= ke not only the finished tablet forms of drugs. They also make generic versions of the = raw ingredients and chemicals used in the drugs' manufacture. Many of these they actu
[FairfieldLife] Re: In or out redux
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > on 3/22/05 11:17 PM, Paul Mason at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > > > > > >> That I'm providing a forum for the expression of negativity and > > unwarranted > >> criticism of Maharishi. > > > > Where does one obtain a warrant for criticism of MMY these days? > > > LB grants them, for a fee. &&& The fee is negotiable. L B S To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Turiya, Tuiryatita (CC) and the Style of Yogic Sleep
I met Swami Rama in Detroit in 1968 at a weekend convention sponsored by a British organization called Spiritual Unity of Nations (SUN). It was a very interesting, ecclectic mix. I also met Marcus Bach, uncle (I think) of the Jonathan Livingston Seagull author and a spiritual maven in his own right. Swami Rama performed a demonstration wherein he had his head wrapped in a blanket while someone wrote a word on the blackboard. Swami correctly guessed the word, whereupon the audience burst into spontaneous applause. The applause appeared to put Swami into severe pain, such that he staggered and nearly fell down; the audience became quiet almost immediatley and Swami recovered his composure. I have one or two other recollections of Swami Rama, but they are not pertinent to this discussion. L B S --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > [The Qualities of Yogic Sleep and Turiyatita (CC) -V.] > > This same experiment has been duplicated at MIU. > > fr. _Yoga & Psychotherapy_ by Sw. Rama > > Though this way of understanding dreamless sleep seems very foreign to > Western thinking, the Upanishads go even further. They describe a > fourth state. It is still more advanced than the third. It is what > results when the expanded consciousness [turiya, transcendental > consciousness] is brought back from dreamless sleep into dreaming and > waking consciousness. This is considered more evolved than the third > state [deep sleep] because it is the result of a massive reintegration. > The universality of deep sleep is carried over into the other levels of > consciousness. One maintains the all-encompassing awareness, the serene > and universal consciousness constantly. He maintains contact with the > brilliant light of cosmic awareness while also remaining in touch with > the usual levels of waking consciousness. This "fourth state" is called > turiya. It is the perspective from which all can be observed, > controlled and integrated. It brings total awareness of all the > compartments of the mind, all the lower levels of consciousness. > > For example, the dream state becomes totally accessible. A yogi who is > approaching this highest state of development can maintain > consciousness during the period that would normally be > dreaming. This explains how he might be able to practice continuous > deep sleep; how he would be conscious enough of the sleep cycle to > enter it where he wished and stay as long as he needed. It also implies > that one could maintain awareness of the external world even while in > the delta stages of sleep. If consciousness is truly integrated, then > from the vantage point of this higher level both the dreamless sleep > and the external world should be perceptible. This contradicts all our > customary ways of thinking about deep sleep, of course. It is normally > assumed that one is totally oblivious during this deepest level of the > sleep cycle, that he can be aware of nothing around him. > > In an experiment done with Swami Rama at the Menninger Foundation, > this usual conception of delta level sleep was found to be inadequate. > > "After producing theta waves, the Swami said he knew exactly how the > inner states of awareness were arranged in respect to the brain wave > frequency bands. Then he said, 'tomorrow I will consciously make delta > waves for you.' I replied that I doubted that he would succeed in that > because he would have to be sound asleep in order to produce delta. He > laughed at this and said that I would think that he was asleep but that > he would be conscious of everything that occured in the experimental > room. > > Before this test he asked how long I would like to have him remain in > the delta state. I said that 25 minutes would be alright and he said he > would bring himself out at that time. After about five minutes of > meditation, lying down with his eyes shut, the Swami began producing > delta waves, which we had never before seen in his record. In addition, > he snored gently. Alyce, without having told Swami that she was going > to say anything (she was in the experimental room observing him during > this test) then made a statement in a low voice, 'Today the sun is > shining, but tomorrow it may rain.' Every five minutes she made another > statement and after 25 minutes had passed the Swami roused himself and > said that someone with sharp heels had walked on the floor above and > made a click, click, click noise during the test, and a door had been > slammed twice somewhere in the building and that Mrs. Green had > said--and here he gave her statements verbatim, except for the last > half of the fourth sentence, of which he had the gist correct though > not the words. I was very much impressed because in listening from the > control room, I had heard her sentences, but could not remember them > all, and I was supposed to ha
[FairfieldLife] Re: GM fails in UK
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Nelson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "feste37" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > The interesting thing about this article (from The Independent) is > that it shows > > how different Europe and the US are on this issue. In the UK, the > battle > > against GM food has been almost won; in the US, it's already lost. > > > snip > + They don't have the powerfull lobbies there that we do that are > so well funded that they can get their agenda put in place even it is > obviously harmfull- think tobbacco. > When I was working in Ct, I saw containers being filled for > shipment to Europe-- exporting cancer is big money. N. & Actually, their biggest foreign markets are Asia (China in particular) and South America. L B S To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Reflections of a Firebrand
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Length: 6924 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 69.66.136.136 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Yahoo-GPoster: YhpWJz9q8m63MW5n Published on Friday, March 18, 2005 by the Los Angeles Times As Chronic Heart Failure Saps His Health, Activist Minister William Sloane = Coffin Offers Advice to a 'Young Doubter' by Elizabeth Mehren =A0 STRAFFORD, VT -- From a corner of his parlor here, the fiery Presbyterian m= inister gazed through lace curtains at a spindly tree made bare by winter. A sparrow that= defied the elements to take up residence peered back. Beyond lay the snow-covered vill= age Common, the hub of the 18th century town where William Sloane Coffin has lived on a= nd off for a quarter-century. At 80, Coffin has come home to spend his final days. Doctors gave him six m= onths to live when they diagnosed chronic heart failure after a series of strokes. That w= as 2=BD years ago. No less defiant than when he was arrested as a Freedom Rider during the civ= il rights movement or when he protested the Vietnam War as chaplain of Yale, Coffin h= eeded medical opinion by writing another book. When "Credo" came out late in 2003, Coffin put pen to paper again and produ= ced "Letters to a Young Doubter," to be published in July. Still, reclined in the leather lounge chair that his wife, Randy, gave him = for Christmas, he admitted, "My energy is so low now." This disclosure came awkwardly from a man known for relentless energy in pu= rsuit of social justice. Coffin was an Army officer in World War II, acting as liais= on to the French and Russian armies. He also worked for the CIA, training anti-Soviet Russia= ns to work in their country. After the war, he graduated from Yale University and the Yal= e Divinity School. As chaplain at Yale in the early 1960s, Coffin organized busloads of protes= ters known as Freedom Riders to challenge segregation laws in the South. He promptly land= ed in jail =97 the first of many times =97 but the conviction was overturned by the Supreme = Court. In 1967, Coffin was arrested along with his friend Dr. Benjamin Spock, the ped= iatrician and baby book author, on charges of conspiracy to aid draft resisters. These ch= arges also were reversed. Coffin used his pulpits as a platform for like-minded crusaders, hosting th= e Rev. Martin Luther King Jr., South African Archbishop Desmond Tutu and Nelson Mandela, = among others. Fellow Yale graduate Garry Trudeau has immortalized Coffin as "the = Rev. Sloan" in the Doonesbury comic strip. But ill health finally slowed him down. His infirmity kept him from joining= in this town's recent vote to bring U.S. troops back from Iraq. Strafford was one of 50 Ve= rmont towns that approved a referendum protesting U.S. policy in Iraq. "I think of this as a consciousness-raising act for the people here," he sa= id. "A reminder that we live in history, not only in Strafford." Struggling to enunciate, Coffin said he applauded the decision by small tow= ns in a small state to send a bold message to Washington. Yet he wondered if President Bu= sh and others were prepared to hear views in conflict with their own. "People are forever attributing informed wisdom to power," he said, "while = willful ignorance might be closer to the truth." In Strafford, a town of a little more than 1,000, such pronouncements are f= amiliar. The village has become a bedroom community of sorts for faculty from nearby Dar= tmouth College, as well as a weekend and summer destination for many New Yorkers. With rows of Cape Colonial houses lining the Common =97 including the gray-an= d-white home of the Coffins =97 Strafford is a prototypical quaint New England villag= e. "We all cross paths at Coburn's, the general store," said Coffin's older br= other Ned, who moved to Strafford with his wife, Vi, in the early 1970s. His brother follo= wed, choosing Strafford as a quiet spot to write a book. Coffin fell in love not only wit= h the town, but with Randy. After they married, and Coffin took over as senior minister at New York Cit= y's Riverside Church in 1977, they kept their house in Strafford and spent as much time t= here as possible. "Bill is known by everybody," said Michael Manheim, who lives two doors fro= m the Coffins. "He is very much revered, except by some very conservative people, of whom = there are not many." In years when his health was better, Coffin often gave talks in the area, M= anheim said. He presided at funerals and weddings at the United Church of Strafford, just a= few houses away on the Common. Coffin officiated when Manheim's son was married, and a= lso solemnized the vows of actor Daniel Day Lewis and filmmaker Rebecca Miller,= daughter of playwright Arthur Miller, Coffin's close friend
[FairfieldLife] Re: soma .. was: New Vedic Translation?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "easyone200" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "easyone200" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > wrote: > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > Hiya Mark: > > > > > > > > > > > An example might be the numerous people who believe they are being > > > > violated by extraterrestrials. This is what happens when > > > > people--humans--with limited memory spans come into contact with beings > > > > whose space they violated in some past time. Not every being lives for > > > > 100 years (or less)... > > > > > > > > -V > > > > > > Bad example. Alien visitations can easily be explained away by > > > hypnopompic or > > > hypnogogic hallucinations or various sleep paralysis experiences. > > > Laboratory > > experiments > > > in which small electromagnets are placed around the skull and pulsed can > > > give exactly > > the > > > same abduction - visitation experience. The subject will swear to the > > > reality of the > > > experience even though he is in a thoroughly controlled and videotaped surrounding > > with > > > a dozen witnesses to say nothing happened. The subjects will even pass > > > lie detector > > tests. > > > Such hallucinations can also occur during extreme fatigue. One famous > > > incident was a > > > reporter covering and participating in an "iron man" competition in the > > > desert. He > > passed > > > out and then awoke in an ambulance with a wonderfully complete "alien > > > abduction" > > > experience. It was as real to him as any other experience and if it had > > > not been for his > > > circumstance and the many witnesses he would now be another abductee. > > > > % > > > > Just for the sake of the argument: > > > > What if the "aliens" only abducted the consciousness, not the body? People > > in extreme > > states are known to "leave the body" temporarily; what if these people were "abducted" > > while in vulnerable states and their consciousness actually "went" to > > "someplace" where > > "something" happened? > > > > L B S > > "what if" I won the lotto, had a 10 inch cock and looked like Brad Pitt. ? You didn't win the lotto? (I'm sure the rest is true.) L B S To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Alien Abductions, was: soma .. was: New Vedic Translation?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > on 3/18/05 7:35 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > > Just for the sake of the argument: > > > > What if the "aliens" only abducted the consciousness, not the body? People > > in > > extreme > > states are known to "leave the body" temporarily; what if these people were > > "abducted" > > while in vulnerable states and their consciousness actually "went" to > > "someplace" where > > "something" happened? > > > Except that some people come back with little scars, implants, aborted > pregnancies, etc. *** Not all of them. L B S To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Sunthar Visuvalingam
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Bob Brigante" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "at_man_and_brahman" > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > snip > > > > > > > > Again, who at MIU/MUM has heard of > > > Abhinavagupta? Maharishi doesn't talk > > > about him, so he's off the radar. > > > > > > ** > > > > Doug White knew all about Abhinavagupta. He's long gone, of course. > > > > L B S > > * > > Long gone as in remarried and left town, but not dead, right? &&& Not sure about the "remarried" part. He and Bonnie are divorced, and I know there was an "other woman" scenario, but haven't kept touch recently so don't know if marriage happened or not. Definitely not dead. L B S To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: soma .. was: New Vedic Translation?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "easyone200" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Hiya Mark: > > > > > An example might be the numerous people who believe they are being > > violated by extraterrestrials. This is what happens when > > people--humans--with limited memory spans come into contact with beings > > whose space they violated in some past time. Not every being lives for > > 100 years (or less)... > > > > -V > > Bad example. Alien visitations can easily be explained away by hypnopompic or > hypnogogic hallucinations or various sleep paralysis experiences. Laboratory experiments > in which small electromagnets are placed around the skull and pulsed can give > exactly the > same abduction - visitation experience. The subject will swear to the reality > of the > experience even though he is in a thoroughly controlled and videotaped > surrounding with > a dozen witnesses to say nothing happened. The subjects will even pass lie > detector tests. > Such hallucinations can also occur during extreme fatigue. One famous > incident was a > reporter covering and participating in an "iron man" competition in the > desert. He passed > out and then awoke in an ambulance with a wonderfully complete "alien > abduction" > experience. It was as real to him as any other experience and if it had not > been for his > circumstance and the many witnesses he would now be another abductee. % Just for the sake of the argument: What if the "aliens" only abducted the consciousness, not the body? People in extreme states are known to "leave the body" temporarily; what if these people were "abducted" while in vulnerable states and their consciousness actually "went" to "someplace" where "something" happened? L B S To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Sunthar Visuvalingam
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "at_man_and_brahman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: snip > > Again, who at MIU/MUM has heard of > Abhinavagupta? Maharishi doesn't talk > about him, so he's off the radar. ** Doug White knew all about Abhinavagupta. He's long gone, of course. L B S To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Why Hindutva Loves [Vedic] "Science"
Hi Patick. Read your comments and found them interesting and insightful. Let me run this past you though: I read this and found it fascinating for the vigor with which it opposed the hindutva viewpoint. And when I say opposed, I don't just mean in the adversarial sense (although that aspect was also present, and your analysis of it was clear and articulate). I mean opposed in the way the thumb opposes the forefingermore like a point-by-point complementarity of positions. For example, I liked how systematic it was in dealing with so many aspects of the issue. Furthermore, I appreciated how clearly it addressed issues which aren't even up for questioning in the minds of substantial numbers of people. I couldn't help but notice, however, that my deepest responses to it came from the internal TM framework, even though I don't remember TM having been mentioned anywhere. I noticed the same thing in your response, I believe. Correct me if I am mistaken. This suggests to me that we both, on some level, equate our internal TM framework with the hindutva orientation on "Vedic Science", which further suggests to me that on some level we equate our internal TM framework with fundamentalism. This strikes me as interesting for two reasons. In the past, we have thought of our TM frame of reference in terms of its uniqueness. That is, we had the revived knowledge, which in effect was brand new and cutting edge despite its intrinsic "ancientness", to coin a word. Now we see its reflection in this phenomenon called Hindu fundamentalism, also represented by the hindutva movement, and the extent of "shared values" there is really quite striking. So much so that we can perform this effortless mental equivalence between hindutva and our TM framework pretty much without blinking an eye. Because this is turning into a bit of a ramble on my part, let me just stop right now and ask: Do you see the point I am rambling towards? What do you think? L B S --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Patrick Gillam" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > Why Hindutva Loves "Science" > > > > Meera Nanda > > Interesting essay. Thanks to Vaj for posting it. > > Comments interleaved below. I admit at the outset that they betray my TM bias. > > Mark Meredith wrote: > > > > While I'm sure there are hindu fundies who are cynically using the > > guise of science to advance their religious-mythological dogma, I > > don't see why there can't be a legitimate attempt to expand science's > > reach into those more subjective or even superstitious areas in an > > attempt to separate the wheat from the chaff. > > Nanda's bias from the outset is that Vedic traditions are nothing *but* > chaff. Instead > of arguing for a proper application of science to traditional myths, she is > content to > point out the dysfunctional appropriation of science by the god-men. She > doesn't say > how they do it, however; she's content to say simply that what they're doing > is wrong. > > > Mother India will be called upon to heal the wounds inflicted > > on the entire world by the "violence" of soul-less modern science. > > That would be a bad thing? Obviously she believes this is just the packaging > of an > empty promise. > > > We are heading toward a schizophrenic national culture in which the > > technological products of modern science will be eagerly embraced, but the > > secular culture which science was supposed to help create will be > > strenuously denied. > > Haven't we in the West demonstrated that a secular culture isn't something > that > people particularly desire? And since when was the purpose of science to > create a > secular culture? Again, her assumptions don't bode well for a reasoned > argument -- > or for one that appeals to the emotions of people in the middle. > > > Instead of a genuine secular culture, which denies the > > existence of gods in nature and the authority of god-men in culture, the > > intellectual Kshatriyas are intent on declaring the dharmic worldview, with > > its nature-gods and miracle-working gurus, to be the essence of a "higher" > > science and "authentic" secularism. > > I didn't think secularism denied the existence of gods; I thought it unfit to > deal with > those realms. I guess the rules are different in India. No wonder the god-men > are > fighting back -- secularism has been positioned as their enemy. > > > Symptoms of such schizophrenia are > > already evident: This Hindu modernity, incidentally, bears a frightening > > similarity with the reactionary modernism of Hitler's Germany, where high > > technology was allowed to mix with a highly romanticized dream of > > recreating > > an Aryan society. The Nazis, too, assumed that Germany could be both > > technologically advanced and remain true to its "Aryan soul". > > The obligatory parallel with Nazi Germany. It seems one can't have a > political > discussion without rai
[FairfieldLife] Re: Why Hindutva Loves [Vedic] "Science"
Dynamite. L B S --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Why Hindutva Loves "Science" > > Meera Nanda > > We can understand why the leading Hindutva ideas-men go around calling > themselves "intellectual Kshatriyas": they are at home in a > varna-defined world. But the Kshatriyas were only supposed to defend > dharma as a way of life. Why, then, are our Kshatriyas so bent upon > defending dharma as science? Why is it not enough for them to have > pulled off a coup against higher education in India by forcing such > absurdities as "Vedic astrology" into the college curricula? Why must > they also insist upon declaring astrology, and the entire Vedic > tradition, "scientific"? > > Why this sudden love for "science" in the saffron camp? > > We will solve this mystery as we go along. We will also > unearth a curious, although entirely unintended alliance between our > Vedic warriors and our postmodern Brahmins in universities and social > movements, both in India and abroad. We will find that postmodernist > condemnations of science and modernity, coupled with uncritical > celebration of "local knowledges" have created a climate in which > irrationalities of all kinds can thrive. > > But first: some friendly advice to help you cope with what lies > ahead .. > > Get over whatever mental blocks you may have against this oxymoron > called "Vedic science," which pairs the archaic, mystical and > unfalsifiable worldview of the Vedas with science. Put away whatever > residual hopes you may still cherish that science could help demystify > and liberalize our culture .. > > Instead, get used to the doublespeak of "Vedic science," for we are > going to hear a lot more of it. Be prepared for a flood of books, > TV-shows and even new computer programs extolling the virtues of Hindu > sciences. After all, big money is behind it: tax-payer's rupees and > large grants from private foundations (Hinduja Foundation, Infinity > Foundation) are pouring into "research centers" dedicated to showing > the scientificity of Hindu scriptures. If you thought that Vedic > astrology was merely a personal idiosyncrasy of Murli Manohar Joshi and > a handful of UGC bureaucrats, think again! > > Everything Vedic from yagnas to the gods of all things, to > reincarnation, karma and parapsychology will make a claim for the > status of "science." And everything scientific from the knowledge of > quantum physics, to the laws of molecular biology and ecology will be > declared to be already there in the Vedas. Modern science will be > treated as a Western corruption of the non-dualist Vedic sciences which > can synthesize science with god, facts with values, etc. Mother India > will be called upon to heal the wounds inflicted on the entire world by > the "violence" of soul-less modern science. > > But and here the plot begins to thicken this will not stop the BJP > government from acquiring the most violent and the most destructive > products of modern science and technology. We are heading toward a > schizophrenic national culture in which the technological products of > modern science will be eagerly embraced, but the secular culture which > science was supposed to help create will be strenuously denied. Instead > of a genuine secular culture, which denies the existence of gods in > nature and the authority of god-men in culture, the intellectual > Kshatriyas are intent on declaring the dharmic worldview, with its > nature-gods and miracle-working gurus, to be the essence of a "higher" > science and "authentic" secularism. Symptoms of such schizophrenia are > already evident: > > 1. The nuclear bomb tests in 1988 were justified and packaged in > dharmic terms. Hindu ideologues claimed that the bomb was foretold by > Lord Krishna in the Bhagwat Gita when he declared himself to be "the > radiance of a thousand suns, the splendor of the Mighty One. ..I am > become Death." They celebrated the bomb by invoking gods and goddesses > symbolizing shakti and vigyan. Even Ganesha idols turned up with atomic > halos around their heads and with guns in their hands! > > 2. In April 2001, the Indian Space Research Organization made > history by successfully putting a satellite into the geo-stationary > orbit, 36,000 km. above the earth. This same "space power" that takes > justified pride in its ability to touch the stars, will soon start > educating its youth in how to read our fortunes and misfortunes in the > stars and how to propitiate these stars through appropriate karmakanda. > For all we know, the satellites launched by the much-celebrated GSLV > might some day carry internet signals that will make horoscopes easier > to match! > > This is how the secularist dream ends: with nuclear bombs in the > silos, and the Vedas in the schools; with satellites in space, and > horoscopes in our lives down here on e
[FairfieldLife] Re: MMY: The Death of Democracy
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > On Mar 17, 2005, at 1:09 AM, Rick Archer wrote: > > > Maharishi told the press last night on the Global Press Conference to > > watch > > closely the rise of coherence in world consciousness in 2-3 months. > > He said > > that this will happen much before 20 weeks, much before 10 weeks. It > > will > > happen sooner than that, he said. The press should be ready to > > observe how > > soon the governments become wise or if not, how soon they go out of > > ruling > > authority. He said democracy may find its way out completely, is > > going to > > die out. The biggest thorn in the world, democracy, is going to be > > out, > > especially in the biggest democracy in the world, India. This will > > be the > > greatest proof of the dawn of Satyuga in the world. And this will > > happen > > much before Guru Purnima of this year, July 21. > > > > > > What does he propose will replace these governments? > > Should I start converting my retirement account to raams? You hadn't done that yet? L B S To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Regarding the Amma posts
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, off_world_beings <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "rudra_joe" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: snip There were so many other completely > psychotic personalities that they're very easy to forget. I was at > least five of them in the early days before I "came out" Irmeli, > yes, before I came out! Good one. > > >>. > > > > This is funny. Here we have Rudra-Joe, the self confessed heroine, > crack, dopehead, who has escaped from a lunatic asylum snip Are you referring to MIU here? ;-) L B S To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Man executed despite Brain Fingerprinting finding
Man executed protesting his innocence Underwent 'brain fingerprinting' MCALESTER, Oklahoma (Reuters) -- An Oklahoma man who tried to prove his innocence through a little-known procedure called "brain fingerprinting" was executed by lethal injection Tuesday for the 1991 murder of a woman and her daughter. Jimmy Ray Slaughter, 57, insisted he was not guilty even as the mix of lethal chemicals was injected into his arms at the Oklahoma State Penitentiary in McAlester. "I've been accused of murder and it's not true. It was a lie from the beginning," he said while strapped to a gurney in the Oklahoma death chamber. "You people will know it's true some day. May god have mercy on your souls." Slaughter sighed heavily as the chemicals flowed into his body and his face lost all color. He was pronounced dead in the first execution this year in Oklahoma. Slaughter was condemned for the July 2, 1991, murders of his girlfriend Melody Wuertz, 29, and their 11-month-old daughter, Jessica, whom he killed in a fit of anger when Wuertz filed a paternity suit against him, prosecutors said. Slaughter tried to get his conviction overturned by submitting to a "brain fingerprinting" test by Seattle-based neuroscientist Larry Farwell. [Formerly based in FFL B S] In the procedure, which the Harvard-educated Farwell says is accurate but has yet to gain much legal acceptance, the suspect is fitted with a headband-like sensor device, then shown photographs and other evidence from the crime scene. Seeing something familiar is said to trigger brain waves of recognition, which the sensor detects and flashes on a computer screen. Farwell told the Oklahoma Pardon and Parole Board in February that test results indicated Slaughter had not committed the crime, but the board members refused to grant him clemency. His fate was sealed when U.S. Supreme Court rejected his appeal Tuesday. Slaughter's three daughters from an earlier marriage witnessed the execution and wept as they watched their father die. He raised his head before the chemicals took hold and tried to comfort them, saying, "It's OK, it's OK, I love you." Slaughter was the 76th person executed in Oklahoma since the state resumed capital punishment in 1991, 15 years after the U.S. Supreme Court lifted a national death penalty ban. For his final meal, he requested fried chicken, mashed potatoes, cole slaw, biscuits, apple pie and cherry limeade To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Regarding the Amma posts
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter Sutphen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > YOUR RIGHT! I'M UTTERLY INSANE!! I'M A BUDDIST!!! > I'M A HINDOO TOO, BUT NOT A COOKIE. RICH ARCHER IS A > LEMON COOKIE!! LBS IS A COOKIE MONSTER. > HAHAHAHAHHAHAHA I'M A BUDDIST. I LIKE CAJUN CATFISH!!! > NEW ORLEANS ROCKSHAHAHAHAHAHA "Cookie monster" was, in fact, one of my first TMO positions of responsibility. When we had advanced lectures in Iowa City (early 70s) I was so notorious for scarfing up the cookies that I was unanimously elected to organize the cookies for each Sunday night. I sometimes baked them myself. And yes, they did call me "cookie monster". Clearly, Dr Pete, you are not only a Buddhist faggot, but clairvoyant as well. L B S To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: off_world_beings less TMO than half theTM x'rs on here.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, off_world_beings <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Off_world_beings is less TMO than Rick, Dr. Pete, LBS, and a bunch > of others. > You guys may be TM x now, but you are more attached to the TMO than > I have EVER been. Not only that, you were all fanatics at one time, > whereas I have always existed way out on the sidelines, not doing > much at all. > > So stop trying to use that lame and repetative accusation that I am > TMO plant or something as a form of reasoning. It amounts pathetic > retort. > > > GET USED TO IT: I am way less TMO than most of you here. Always have > been , always will be. I have freely acknowledged in the past that I was briefly a TM Nazi. This part of my life is still something of a mystery to me. L B S To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Regarding the Amma posts
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > on 3/15/05 3:49 PM, Peter Sutphen at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > > Now why in the world would Off_world do something > > rational like that. He knows he's right because he's > > right. Simple. He doesn't need any stupid facts. In > > fact IT IS YOU WHO NEEDS THE STUPID FACTS. YOU WILL > > NEVER,EVER,EVER BE AS SMART AS ME. YOU JUST DON'T GET > > IT, DO YOU RICK. YOU MUST BE A COOKIE TOO LIKE LBS, > > PERHAPS A BUTTERSCOTCH COOKIE, BECAUSE LBS IS A COOKIE > > FILED,LIKE A LETTER, IN A DRAWER WITH NUTS AND > > RAISINS. HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!! I'M A BUDDHIST! I > > > Thanks a lot. Now I want cookies and there aren't any in the house. Prove > you a saint and bring me some, LB! No cookies for you, Rick. You've been bad! L B S To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Regarding the Amma posts
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, off_world_beings <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Bob Brigante" > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, off_world_beings > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "markmeredith2002" > > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, off_world_beings > > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > Some nutjob trying to get back at the movement for some > reason. > > > More > > > > > conspiracy theory lunacy . > > > > > > > > Well which is it? - either you believe it's some nutjob who > did > > it > > > or > > > > you don't believe it happened. That it happened is well > > documented > > > > and that the people it happened to are successful, well > respected > > > > parents with a great family, and not nutjob crack whores are > > > whatever > > > > you called them, is well known as well. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The person who broke into their house you idiot and made the > > threats. > > > Was either a lone nutjob, who is just nuts, or someone trying to > > > hurt the movement...a nutjob. > > > You can't jusdge the whole TMO for that. Thats just stupid. > > > > > > > Yes, you can't blame the whole TMO for an individual act of > > stupidity, but in fact TM mgmt encourages thuggery by not > condemning > > it. In fact, Bevan is one of the biggest thugs around -- for > > instance, asking mgmt at Globalink to fire LB (they did not > comply). > > > > Lol ! > Your still not gettin' it are ya Bob? > LB made that crap up based on his delusional paranoia and extremist > fundamentalist war against the movement. > (Dr. Pete is too dumb to see it though) > > NO POINT EVER THAT SUPPORTS THE TMO or MAHARISHI IN ANY WAY > WHATSOEVER, is EVER accepted by LBS, nor EVER WILL BE. > This is EXTREME FUNDAMENTALISM. PERIOD. > (and before the children here retort: No, most of my posts , > statistically speaking, take each point into the realm of reason and > balance, unlike most people here.) > > Anything LBS says, (because of his delusion and fundamentalist war > approach) must be considered delusional paranoia, UNLESS it is > backed up by other evidence NOT coming from him. > > LBS, (and a lot of other people here ), your only hope to retain > sanity as you grow older, is to find reason, over paranoia and > delusion. Find balance over imbalance. > Good luck to you , with all my heart. You need it baby! Thank you. L B S To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Regarding the Amma posts
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "at_man_and_brahman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > I will respond simply by saying that > I accept your thoughts and the > spirit in which they are given. @@ That is all I ask. L B S @@ > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "at_man_and_brahman" > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > snip > > > > > > > > Was a bias of L.B.'s revealed in his > > > interpretation of what I said to mean > > > that I sided with hardcore protectionists > > > in Fairfield? > > > > > > Then, we all have biases, or at least > > > the "remains" thereof. > > > > > > > > The semantic loading in your choice of words in those posts indicated an > > emotional > > "charge" on your part. In my experience, this only comes from > > identification with a > > localized point of view. > > > > In a recent post, you acknowledged that you used to feel that way (hardcore > protectionist) > > when involved locally and that some trace of that may have turned up in > > your opinions > on > > the subject (the "remains" thereof). If you intend to maintain that you > > have been neutral > in > > your positions on this topic, you have a difficult case to make, based on > > what you have > > actually left in the archives. > > > > I have attachments and aversions of my own, based on my 35 years > > inside/outside the > > movement, so I have some appreciation that these can persist long beyond > > our > conscious > > perception of them. > > > > In another recent post, you acknowledged that you have been away from FF > > for twenty > > years. I am only saying, as one who has been here during those twenty > > years, that the > only > > explanation I can find for your contentiousness on the issue of "guru turf > > wars" is that > you > > don't realize the extent to which you are still speaking for the TMO. > > > > The rest of society just doesn't see the issue the way you have presented > > it. This is not > > how gurus relate to each other, for the most part, in India, for example. > > It is not what > they > > prescribe for their disciples/devotees. It is only found in the presence of > > "the one true > > path" or "the greatest guru of all the ages". > > > > My thinking about this forum is that it is a colloquium, an opportunity for > > peers to > > converse as equals whether they agree on all points or not. When someone > > takes the > > position that some of the members are "squatters", or that their gurus are > > not as > > legitimate as someone else's, the quality of discourse here inevitably > > suffers. > > > > If unavoidable differences of opinion exist regarding gurus and/or > > teachings, then this > is a > > matter for legitimate discussion. Let the debate be on the merits of the > > evidence or the > > reasoning, not on the level of unsupported assertions. > > > > Many people have questioned the "agenda" of FairfieldLife; specifically, > > some have > claimed > > that it is intentionally anti-TM. I have not seen this, regardless of the > > fact that many who > > post here have "issues" with the movement and a few plainly despise it. It > > seems to me, > > rather, that what some people find objectionable is that very lack of > > affiliation, based on > > their feeling that the TMO is the only legitimate organization for all of > > us, regardless of > > how we may feel about that. > > > > The fact that your posts questioned the legitimacy of the presence of > > "others" in > Fairfield > > suggested to me that you were "in that camp". Since it is pretty rare to > > find someone > NOT > > in that camp who would see any problem with spiritual diversity, I am still > > at a loss to > see > > it otherwise. Your logic in responding"I have no problem with supply and > > demand as > > long as a certain segment of the demand side is ignored or > > prohibited"really doesn't > > help your assertion that you are free of your old TM biases, either. > > > > That's the basis of my taking you to task for your comments about Amma and > > others. I > > look forward to your response, should you feel inclined. > > > > L B S To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Regarding the Amma posts
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "at_man_and_brahman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: snip > > Was a bias of L.B.'s revealed in his > interpretation of what I said to mean > that I sided with hardcore protectionists > in Fairfield? > > Then, we all have biases, or at least > the "remains" thereof. The semantic loading in your choice of words in those posts indicated an emotional "charge" on your part. In my experience, this only comes from identification with a localized point of view. In a recent post, you acknowledged that you used to feel that way (hardcore protectionist) when involved locally and that some trace of that may have turned up in your opinions on the subject (the "remains" thereof). If you intend to maintain that you have been neutral in your positions on this topic, you have a difficult case to make, based on what you have actually left in the archives. I have attachments and aversions of my own, based on my 35 years inside/outside the movement, so I have some appreciation that these can persist long beyond our conscious perception of them. In another recent post, you acknowledged that you have been away from FF for twenty years. I am only saying, as one who has been here during those twenty years, that the only explanation I can find for your contentiousness on the issue of "guru turf wars" is that you don't realize the extent to which you are still speaking for the TMO. The rest of society just doesn't see the issue the way you have presented it. This is not how gurus relate to each other, for the most part, in India, for example. It is not what they prescribe for their disciples/devotees. It is only found in the presence of "the one true path" or "the greatest guru of all the ages". My thinking about this forum is that it is a colloquium, an opportunity for peers to converse as equals whether they agree on all points or not. When someone takes the position that some of the members are "squatters", or that their gurus are not as legitimate as someone else's, the quality of discourse here inevitably suffers. If unavoidable differences of opinion exist regarding gurus and/or teachings, then this is a matter for legitimate discussion. Let the debate be on the merits of the evidence or the reasoning, not on the level of unsupported assertions. Many people have questioned the "agenda" of FairfieldLife; specifically, some have claimed that it is intentionally anti-TM. I have not seen this, regardless of the fact that many who post here have "issues" with the movement and a few plainly despise it. It seems to me, rather, that what some people find objectionable is that very lack of affiliation, based on their feeling that the TMO is the only legitimate organization for all of us, regardless of how we may feel about that. The fact that your posts questioned the legitimacy of the presence of "others" in Fairfield suggested to me that you were "in that camp". Since it is pretty rare to find someone NOT in that camp who would see any problem with spiritual diversity, I am still at a loss to see it otherwise. Your logic in responding"I have no problem with supply and demand as long as a certain segment of the demand side is ignored or prohibited"really doesn't help your assertion that you are free of your old TM biases, either. That's the basis of my taking you to task for your comments about Amma and others. I look forward to your response, should you feel inclined. L B S To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Gurus-Egos (was Re: Another Amma post (to a different group) by my friend)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "rudrani" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Rick asked [[What makes these people "real" saints as opposed > to "Mr. Shankar"?]] > ** aside from being recognized as having spiritual traits, such as, > but not limited to: all embracing compassion, love & wisdom, there > is an organization, like the Vatican for example, that acknowledges > & bestows the title of saint: the Holy Order of Shri Taponidhi > Niranjani Akhada. > > Ma Yoga Shakti (http://www.yogashakti.org/) was designated > as "Shakti Tant Shiromani" & "Maha Mandaleshwar" & "Matri Acharya" > by this spiritual order. Thanks for the url. Darshan there was sweet. L B S To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Regarding the Amma posts
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, off_world_beings <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: snip > LB is the most FUNDAMENTALIST around here but you are too dumb to > see it. +++ Most fundamentalist _. Please fill in the blank. L B S To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Regarding the Amma posts
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, off_world_beings <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, off_world_beings > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > big snip > > > > > > However, I can tell you something that really does make me > angry: > > > it makes me > > > > EXTREMELY angry that saints who have been invited to Fairfield > > > have had their lives > > > > threatened by TM loyalists. What is the logic there? "If you > try > > > to eat the scraps from our > > > > King's table, we'll kill you" >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yea right LB, only a couple of loonies on this board believe > that > > > crap. > > > > ** > > > > This is well documented, and I have personally spoken with people > who were involved. > >>> > > > > Silly . > Tell the psychiatric patient or crack addict who told you this to > make his complant to the police. Probably won't do it because it is > probably not true. > (just kidding about the crack addict thingjust making a > flambouyant, colorful, and melodramatic post-modernist analogy , to > brighten up the evening) *** The threats against Sri Shiva, a saint from Tamil Nadu, were left on his answering machine. Because a telephone was used, it was a federal offense and was therefore investigated by the FBI, who traced the call to the campus exchange but were unable to pinpoint the exact extension. The threats against Amma were sent in letters, as far as I know. One was "sent" to a personal friend; I have seen a copy. I put quotes around "sent" because the "sender" broke into my friend's house to leave it on her kitchen table. By the way, the threatening messages all contained language similar to that which you and others have used in designating Fairfield as Maharishi's turf. L B S To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Regarding the Amma posts
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, off_world_beings <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > big snip > > However, I can tell you something that really does make me angry: > it makes me > > EXTREMELY angry that saints who have been invited to Fairfield > have had their lives > > threatened by TM loyalists. What is the logic there? "If you try > to eat the scraps from our > > King's table, we'll kill you" >>> > > > > > Yea right LB, only a couple of loonies on this board believe that > crap. ** This is well documented, and I have personally spoken with people who were involved. Your lame attempt to laugh it off notwithstanding, it is a blight in the TM kingdom. L B S To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Regarding the Amma posts
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "at_man_and_brahman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > > > Response below. > > > > Perhaps it's just my lack of "clarity", but you seem to be all over the map > > on this issue. > > > > On the one hand, you berate the gurus who have followings here > > I berate the gurus who have actively encouraged I guess I just don't understand what that means, nor can I imagine how you would be in a position to know which ones had versus which ones had not. If your reasoning is "They have followers there, so they must have encouraged them", I am still at a loss about this "encouraged" concept. People started dropping away from the TMO in Fairfield long before the "turf" issue became contentious. They went out on their own and looked around. They told their friends what they found. Their friends went out and took a look for themselves. Before long there were groups that had gone out independantly, on their own, without solicitation, and found something they liked. It was the "demand" from those groups that led to the phenomenon we have been discussing. The "turf war" aspect was invented by TM people who believed that the whole of Jefferson County is Maharishi's ashram. No one else is buying that. %%% > such followings. > > ; on the other hand, you > > think the competition is healthybut only if it develops "from the demand > > side", which > in > > my experience is EXACTLY how it developed. > > If so, great, and I stand corrected. > Various posts to FFL have led me > to believe that Amma, for instance, > makes periodic visits to Mount > Pleasant and that she plans to open > a Fairfield Ashram and take retreats > there. I must have been mistaken. She visits Mt Pleasant each summer and has an ashram here. What of it? She has many devotees here. Is there any reason why she shouldn't give them her darshan? No one from the TMO has ever been forced to attend, as far as I know. %%% > > > > > In fact, it is well known among Amma and Punditji devotees that they waited > > many years > > before raising their profiles here. In other words, the demand side was > > thoroughly in > place > > before the controversy over the public presence of other movements showed > > up. > > I have zero problem with people in > Fairfield doing whatever they damn-well > please, in whatever timeframe. > > > > > As for you contention that you "plainly meant that competitive forces have > > the potential > to > > solve a great many problems that this group expends tremendous energy complaining > > about": I don't see that plainly in your text, nor is it logical, based on > > what we see here > day > > after day, that such a development is even remotely likely. > > Surely you can agree with me that, if > nothing else, even if the local Movement > simply will not budge an inch in the face > of competitive forces, such a position will > lead to eventual implosion, and that that > would be a good thing. Market forces > will force Maharishi's ashram to adapt or > perish (or both), though it is hard to say > how long either will take to happen. FFLife may someday fold, but not because there is no longer anything to talk about in the cult department. It will be from boredom, and probably not soon, judging from the exchanges we've seen in the past week. L B S > > You are right, btw, in your mention > elsewhere that death threats against > Amma are a crime, both legally and > morally. There is absolutely no > justification for such actions, and > MUM should publically condemn them. > > > > > L B S To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: New Vedic Translation?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Bob Brigante" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > > > There is also a longstanding tradition that cannabis sativa is the > soma plant. No firm > > opinion here. > > > > L B S > > ** > > Deepak Chopra's first book, Return of the Rishi, convinced me that > the soma plant is a very rare plant that grows only on slopes of the > Himalayas, and grows following the cycle of the moon -- it used to be > on the shelf at the Fairfield Library if you're interested. Read it years ago. Don't remember for sure if the discription was the same, but I think I heard that it has X number of leaves, one of which falls off each night for X-1 nights prior to the full moon, so that on the full moon night there is only one left on the plant, and THAT is the one you want to eat. Hope I didn't just make that up. L B S To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Regarding the Amma posts
Response below. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "at_man_and_brahman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "at_man_and_brahman" > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > snip > > > > > I also question the ethics of any of the various > > > gurus who have set up outposts (or inposts) > > > in Fairfield. If they truly respected Maharishi, > > > I think they would discourage such > > > encroachment on the spiritual community > > > he founded. > > > > > > At the same time, I understand the laws of > > > supply and demand. Maharishi's community > > > is not immune to competition, and such is > > > inevitable. In the long run, perhaps this > > > competition will grow strong enough to > > > effect some serious improvement at MUM > > > and its environs and possibly put FFL > > > out of business. > > > > > > That is not to say that enlightened gurus > > > have to give in to the laws of supply and > > > demand so readily. I cannot imagine, for > > > all that Maharishi has been accused of, > > > that he would ever set up shop next to > > > some other guru's community just because > > > it could be a ready source of students. > > > > > > If his devotees tried to do such a thing, > > > I am certain he would condemn it, both > > > out of a sense of ethics and a desire to > > > protect the integrity of his own teaching, > > > which these other gurus don't seem to > > > care much about. > > > > > > Skewer away. > > > > > > > > With pleasure. > > > > If that represents your true position, then you certainly must be > > sympathetic to the > people > > of Christian affiliation in Fairfield who resent the presence of the TMO on > > THEIR turf. > > There is a distinct community in Fairfield > set up by Maharishi that has a poor analogue > in the Christian churches in town. > > Had Christ personally set up a community > there, I might feel such sympathy to the > embattled Christians. > > > > > More to the point, this is out-and-out cult thinking, as contrasted with > > non-cult > thinking, > > the difference being that only the cult thinker assumes the privileges that > > others would > > not. If I am not being clear enough, let me spell it out in greater detail. > > > > Damn democracy or not, freedom of association is guaranteed to all of us, > > thanks to the > > US Constitution. Despite this, TM enthusisasts through the years have > > portrayed all > other > > gurus with local followings as cowardly predators. However, having > > witnessed almost > the > > entire history of TM in Fairfield first hand, it is clear to me that the > > development of these > > local followings is logical, naturual, and a positive influence on the > > community as a > whole. > > Had you read my post with more clarity, > you would have seen that I agree. My > issue is not with the natural unfolding of > competition in Fairfield, where it is even > fair to characterize it as such, but with > the lack of discouragement of it by Amma, > Panditji, and whomever else either visits > the town or nearby or sends representatives > in their stead. > > I recognized in my post that the competition > has the potential to do some serious good, > but I still believe that these gurus shouldn't > play the roles of active agents in its unfolding. > > Whether the local Movement wants to accept it > or not, this phenomenon is inevitable in town. > That doesn't mean that it has to be encouraged. > > I return to my point that Maharishi hasn't done > this over the years, and I respect his ethic. > > I don't live in Fairfield and haven't for years, and > I have little to do with the goings-on of the > Movement anymore. I am not supportive of > the exponentially growing cultism of the Movement, > and my posts generally demonstrate that. > However, I believe that just because you can do > something and just because someone inevitably > will do something if you don't do it first, > doesn't mean that it is right for you to do > or to do it first. > > > > > Many people have fallen away from the TMO over the years. Some from > > disinterest, > some > > from distaste. Among them, many have chosen to stay in Fairfield, as is > > their right. > Among > > those who continued their quest for knowledge and experience, it should be > > no surprise > > that they sought out other teachers. To re-iterate, the demand grew from > > the Fairfield > > side, at least in the case of Amma, Punditji, and some others. > > I agree, and my post acknowledged that. > > > > > It is also known that purveyors of many kinds of snake-oil have passed > > through here, > and > > all the popular seminars have mined this town as well. I just think it is > > inaccurate to > lump > > all non-TM interests together. > > I don't believe I did. > > > > > Your remark about putting FFL out of business is surprising. It
[FairfieldLife] Re: Regarding the Amma posts
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, off_world_beings <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, off_world_beings > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "at_man_and_brahman" > > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > > > I also question the ethics of any of the various > > > > gurus who have set up outposts (or inposts) > > > > in Fairfield. If they truly respected Maharishi, > > > > I think they would discourage such > > > > encroachment on the spiritual community > > > > he founded. > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > I know , its like dogs feeding off the scraps from the Kings > banquet. > > > > > > snip to end > > > > > > > > This is exactly the attitude I have found among TM enthusiasts > here in Fairfield. It's > > disgusting, not to mention oblivious to the way gurus and ashrams > relate to each other in > > India, where only the the monumental egos are unwilling to share > the turf of seeking > > humanity. > > > > L B S > > > > Don't get upset, its just an analogy. > But its a good one. > I'm sure Maharishi doesn't mind so much. It is more my personal > feeling toward it. I was not taking Maharishi to task for it, I was noting a common attitude here in Fairfield. I get that it is your own personal feeling, but I don't get that your choice of words ( like dogs feeding off the scraps from the king's banquet) is "just an analogy". > > Question to you LB: If I went to the Dalai Lama's ashram , or to > some Tibetan monestary, or to a Hindu Temple complex, and started > getting wayward followers into my own personal 'movement', how would > you feel about it? That is exactly the point that you and others who raise this argument are missing, and you are missing it twice over. First thing: the campus most assuredly is an ashram, but the community of Fairfield most assuredly is not. If the TMO wants to put up a fence to keep undesirable influences out, that is just fine. Just let them respect the principle that they have no right to reach over the fence and interfere in the lives of those who do not live in the ashram. Second thing: In Rishikesh you find, more often than not, ashrams located side-by-side and in groups. In most of them, no one gets upset if the sannyasis take a few weeks of instruction at the Divine Light Mission, or (God forbid) sit in a Punditji's satsang when he's in town. The attitude is more collegial and accepting. The attitude of the TMO, by comparison, is an aberration. To answer your question: If you are invited, the choice is yours. If you are not invited, the choice is still yours, but the prospect of a welcome reception is less. Since the community of Fairfield is not an ashram, I don't see that your line of reasoning has merit. However, I can tell you something that really does make me angry: it makes me EXTREMELY angry that saints who have been invited to Fairfield have had their lives threatened by TM loyalists. What is the logic there? "If you try to eat the scraps from our King's table, we'll kill you" ? L B S To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Regarding the Amma posts
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, off_world_beings <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "at_man_and_brahman" > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > I also question the ethics of any of the various > > gurus who have set up outposts (or inposts) > > in Fairfield. If they truly respected Maharishi, > > I think they would discourage such > > encroachment on the spiritual community > > he founded. > > >>> > > > I know , its like dogs feeding off the scraps from the Kings banquet. snip to end This is exactly the attitude I have found among TM enthusiasts here in Fairfield. It's disgusting, not to mention oblivious to the way gurus and ashrams relate to each other in India, where only the the monumental egos are unwilling to share the turf of seeking humanity. L B S To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Amrit and cancer
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hi L_B: > > On Mar 13, 2005, at 5:02 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > > This is certainly interesting. I think the common understanding around > > here, promoted by > > the MAV guys, is the AK can make chemo more successful and less > > painful. > > I was actually recently reading a paper on this, that's the only reason > I know. I have been trying to talk a friend who has adult-onset > diabetes into trying an Ayurvedic approach ever since I edited a work > on diabetes and ayurveda a couple of years ago. He is currently taking > 1000's of milligrams of Vit. C daily! When I read up on it, that was > one of the things I found. > > I actually have a entry on it in my blog last week. If you are on LJ, I > could give you access to it. I'm just taking a wild guess here, but since I don't know what LJ is, I am probably not on it. L B S To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Regarding the Amma posts
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, off_world_beings <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > LBS, please summarise and minimilize your point for short attention > span people like methanks. ** Fundamentalist politics may have infiltrated Amma's organization, and this would be regrettable, but perhaps inevitable, given India's current political climate and the nature of our times. Nevertheless, I do not find Amma's presence or teaching to be supportive of Hindu fundamentalism, but something of a more universal nature, and that is what seems to attract her many devotees. The allegations of mischaracterization of her "charitable" activities is more troublesome to me, but I haven't seen enough evidence on any of this stuff to reach firm conclusions about it. Probably some pro-TM people are gleeful to see Amma criticized the way MMY has been criticized, and for that very reason some of this stuff may be suspect. However, it will all come out in the wash, and for that reason I think the discussion is a good thing. As for your insistance that I should edit for your convenience, I can only hope that you will return the favor. ;-) L B S > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > > > Any discussion of a spiritual group should include, somewhere near > the beginning, the > > obligatory disclaimers about Kali Yuga. > > > > Don't get me wrong:I am not lobbying for a fundamentalist > interpretation of HIndu > > cosmology. Just the same: we live in a materialistic, corrupt age > and we shouldn't be > > surprised to find corruption and materialism ANYWHERE. > > > > Still, such allegations are disappointing, whether true or untrue. > They are disappointing if > > true because we expected better from the organization (and by > association, the guru), and > > they are disappointing if false because it is discouraging to > consider the motivations of > > those who post. > > > > Let me just address two aspects of the allegations brought up so > far. > > > > Regarding the "hijacking" of Amma's movement by the Hindu > fundamentalists (RSS, BJP, > > etc): > > > > The marriage of religion and politics seldom works out well in any > modern culture. It is an > > unholy alliance, and co-dependant to boot. It is always about > power; it is usually driven by > > the politicians, because power is such a natural part of their > working life. But the religions > > want the power as well; they feel that they deserve it because, > after all, they are the > > representatives of the One True God. Historically, religion seems > to suffer more in the > > downside than the politicians, but there will always be exceptions. > > > > It's difficult for TM people and other New Agers to see Hindus as > fundamentalists; we are > > more accustomed to thinking of them as spiritually advanced. And > besides, many of us > > adhere to fundamentalist beliefs ourselves. Nevertheless, the > Hindutva movement in India > > is quite powerful, and a good deal of blood has been shed there as > a result of its activities. > > > > On the other hand, I have met intelligent, good hearted Sannyasins > who think the BJP and > > RSS are the Good Guys. That is to say, among the religious, many > favor them. > > > > It is not surprising, therefore, to hear that they have a presence > in Amma's movement. > > Indian politicians are constantly seeking to expand their power > base; India's parliamentary > > and electoral systems necessitate aggressive cultivation of "vote > banks". Since Amma has > > such a large reputation, it is a no-brainer to conclude that > political implications abound. > > > > This is an unfortunate thing for Amma's movement, to whatever > extent it is true. At some > > point there will be a change in the political climate, and the > blowback will be painful. > > > > However, I would like to make one other point about the politics. > My perception is that > > Amma is not about politics. That it could have wormed its way into > her organization is > > understandable, perhaps inevitable, but I don't hear Amma herself > preaching the values of > > Hindutva. Her message is much more universal, and that is what I > see people responding > > to in her presence. > > > > Now the second thorny issue: possible misrepresentation > of "charitable" activities. I think > > that many among us find this to be the more difficult and painful > allegation to deal with. > > Old-time TMers, for example, typically got disgusted with TMO > commercialism years ago > > (if not decades), and have been comfortable, if not gleeful, in > making the comparison > > between the two organizations (or cults, if we are really going > straight up here). The loss > > of moral superiority is a bitter pill to swallow. > > > > Based on previous experience, it is predictable that most of what > has been alleged here > > will be denied by some and rat
[FairfieldLife] Re: Amrit and cancer
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > On Mar 13, 2005, at 12:57 PM, at_man_and_brahman wrote: > > > Is it possible that Amrit makes chemo > > patients feel better merely because it > > lessens the potency of chemo, not > > because it works with it in some > > "balancing" manner? If so, it sounds > > to me like a potential net loss. > > Very possibly. I have heard that chemo patients should not even take > doses of vitamin C well above the RDA--vit. c being a pretty mediocre > free rad. scavenger. Certain type of cancer can also horde vit. c in > their cells to help grow faster. With that in mind I would think Amrit > K. would be out of the question. ** This is certainly interesting. I think the common understanding around here, promoted by the MAV guys, is the AK can make chemo more successful and less painful. L B S To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Regarding the Amma posts
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "at_man_and_brahman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: snip > I also question the ethics of any of the various > gurus who have set up outposts (or inposts) > in Fairfield. If they truly respected Maharishi, > I think they would discourage such > encroachment on the spiritual community > he founded. > > At the same time, I understand the laws of > supply and demand. Maharishi's community > is not immune to competition, and such is > inevitable. In the long run, perhaps this > competition will grow strong enough to > effect some serious improvement at MUM > and its environs and possibly put FFL > out of business. > > That is not to say that enlightened gurus > have to give in to the laws of supply and > demand so readily. I cannot imagine, for > all that Maharishi has been accused of, > that he would ever set up shop next to > some other guru's community just because > it could be a ready source of students. > > If his devotees tried to do such a thing, > I am certain he would condemn it, both > out of a sense of ethics and a desire to > protect the integrity of his own teaching, > which these other gurus don't seem to > care much about. > > Skewer away. With pleasure. If that represents your true position, then you certainly must be sympathetic to the people of Christian affiliation in Fairfield who resent the presence of the TMO on THEIR turf. More to the point, this is out-and-out cult thinking, as contrasted with non-cult thinking, the difference being that only the cult thinker assumes the privileges that others would not. If I am not being clear enough, let me spell it out in greater detail. Damn democracy or not, freedom of association is guaranteed to all of us, thanks to the US Constitution. Despite this, TM enthusisasts through the years have portrayed all other gurus with local followings as cowardly predators. However, having witnessed almost the entire history of TM in Fairfield first hand, it is clear to me that the development of these local followings is logical, naturual, and a positive influence on the community as a whole. Many people have fallen away from the TMO over the years. Some from disinterest, some from distaste. Among them, many have chosen to stay in Fairfield, as is their right. Among those who continued their quest for knowledge and experience, it should be no surprise that they sought out other teachers. To re-iterate, the demand grew from the Fairfield side, at least in the case of Amma, Punditji, and some others. It is also known that purveyors of many kinds of snake-oil have passed through here, and all the popular seminars have mined this town as well. I just think it is inaccurate to lump all non-TM interests together. Your remark about putting FFL out of business is surprising. It seems to pretty clearly put you among those who believe that the chat group is just a cover for an insidious plot against "our dear movement". Believe me, I can understand how some of the stuff that is posted here could make TM enthuisasts uncomfortable. On the other hand, I think they have quite a lot that they can legitimately feel uncomfortable about, and it's time they stopped blaming others for their problems. L B S To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: New Vedic Translation?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "mark robert" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > _ > > From: Vaj [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2005 12:20 PM > To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: New Vedic Translation? > > > > > On Mar 13, 2005, at 12:10 PM, mark robert wrote: > > > > > If you believe in an external Soma and that no one knows its > real > > identity, is it not worthy of continued investigation? What, in > the > > Vedic world, would be more worthy of knowing? > > > > > > I have heard from a couple of sources on the actual soma plant. > It > supposedly can only be seen by certain people. It is a creeper > and it > only has a few leaves which change with the phases of the moon. > > Balraj Maharishi is said to be able to communicate with the > plant. > > -Vaj. > > > - > > Vaj, > > > > Yes, I have heard the same "magic creeper" rumors; it would > appear to be the sum total of the body of modern knowledge > concerning external soma, as recognized by most Vedic scholars. > > > > Is it also your belief? Do you consider this magic creeper to be > the last word on the identity of external Soma? Does it sound > like the Soma that the Rig Veda seems to be describing? It > doesn't to me. > > -Mark There is also a longstanding tradition that cannabis sativa is the soma plant. No firm opinion here. L B S To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Regarding the Amma posts
Any discussion of a spiritual group should include, somewhere near the beginning, the obligatory disclaimers about Kali Yuga. Don't get me wrong:I am not lobbying for a fundamentalist interpretation of HIndu cosmology. Just the same: we live in a materialistic, corrupt age and we shouldn't be surprised to find corruption and materialism ANYWHERE. Still, such allegations are disappointing, whether true or untrue. They are disappointing if true because we expected better from the organization (and by association, the guru), and they are disappointing if false because it is discouraging to consider the motivations of those who post. Let me just address two aspects of the allegations brought up so far. Regarding the "hijacking" of Amma's movement by the Hindu fundamentalists (RSS, BJP, etc): The marriage of religion and politics seldom works out well in any modern culture. It is an unholy alliance, and co-dependant to boot. It is always about power; it is usually driven by the politicians, because power is such a natural part of their working life. But the religions want the power as well; they feel that they deserve it because, after all, they are the representatives of the One True God. Historically, religion seems to suffer more in the downside than the politicians, but there will always be exceptions. It's difficult for TM people and other New Agers to see Hindus as fundamentalists; we are more accustomed to thinking of them as spiritually advanced. And besides, many of us adhere to fundamentalist beliefs ourselves. Nevertheless, the Hindutva movement in India is quite powerful, and a good deal of blood has been shed there as a result of its activities. On the other hand, I have met intelligent, good hearted Sannyasins who think the BJP and RSS are the Good Guys. That is to say, among the religious, many favor them. It is not surprising, therefore, to hear that they have a presence in Amma's movement. Indian politicians are constantly seeking to expand their power base; India's parliamentary and electoral systems necessitate aggressive cultivation of "vote banks". Since Amma has such a large reputation, it is a no-brainer to conclude that political implications abound. This is an unfortunate thing for Amma's movement, to whatever extent it is true. At some point there will be a change in the political climate, and the blowback will be painful. However, I would like to make one other point about the politics. My perception is that Amma is not about politics. That it could have wormed its way into her organization is understandable, perhaps inevitable, but I don't hear Amma herself preaching the values of Hindutva. Her message is much more universal, and that is what I see people responding to in her presence. Now the second thorny issue: possible misrepresentation of "charitable" activities. I think that many among us find this to be the more difficult and painful allegation to deal with. Old-time TMers, for example, typically got disgusted with TMO commercialism years ago (if not decades), and have been comfortable, if not gleeful, in making the comparison between the two organizations (or cults, if we are really going straight up here). The loss of moral superiority is a bitter pill to swallow. Based on previous experience, it is predictable that most of what has been alleged here will be denied by some and rationalized by others. Parts of it may also turn out to be bullshit, pure and simple. Some will claim that Amma didn't know about it, others will say, "Are you nuts? She knew about EVERYTHING that happened in her movement!" We have heard all this before. Frankly, the only part that surprised me personally was the misrepresentation of the charitable activities, which I now accept as a possibility but not as a proven thing. This will shake out for awhile and eventually I will decide for myself what I think the truth of it is. I'm sure that many of you will have noted a certain irony in the situation. This chat group, viewed by many TM faithful as anti-TM in nature, is now seeing criticisms raised against a group that many in the TM fold regard as the TMO's biggest local competitor. Perhaps that accounts for the slight aroma of "Gotcha!" that permeates some of the posts. I think we have to accept that what is sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander. While I find these allegations disappointing (notice that I don't call them "disclosures" because I don't think we have enough info here to reach sweeping conclusions), I think that in the big picture it is better to have the discussion than not to have it. L B S To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group,
[FairfieldLife] Re: Block system -- total failure?
I also liked the block system, but don't believe it is ideal for all subject matter. Others have already mentioned the usefulness of time to "incubate" and integrate material, particularly useful for mathematics and sciences. I see no reason why "mix & match" couldn't worksome subjects by block system, others by the traditional method, which may have advantages of its own that we have not considered. L B S --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I'll put in another plug for the block system-- I loved it. It was one > of the things MIU actually got right. I really liked being able to > focus on only one subject at a time. It was a lot more enjoyable than > having to divide your attention. > > Sal > > On Mar 12, 2005, at 10:30 PM, Peter Sutphen wrote: > > > I was a MIU philosophy student from '74 to '78. I > > really liked the block system too. It allowed you to > > really focus on the subject matter 24/7. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Is Ved "Superior" or "More Fundamental" Knowledge?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Bob Brigante" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > > The problem, according to Rama, was that his subjects would > > THINK that she had been since she had spent a night there without > her husband, and she > > would be as dishonored in their eyes as if she ACTUALLY had been. > Therefore, he had to > > send her away so that his people would believe he had done the > right thing. > > > > However, I think that also qualifies as "sleezebag" behavior. > > > > There are many passages in the Vedic literature which must either > be understood has > > having an esoteric meaning (which only the initiated can grok) or > otherwise regarded as > > immoral behavior (according to human standards). This persistent > conundrum has created > > a great deal of confusionnot so much for scholars, I would guess, > as for believers. > > > > L B S > > ** > > The backstory in the separation of Rama from Sita is that this was > caused by a curse leveled against Vishnu (who Rama is an incarnation > of) by Sage Bhrigu: > > http://www.ramanuja.org/sv/bhakti/archives/feb96/0011.html Thanks Bob. Good reminder that another way of understanding the literature is to have read a good bit of it. L B S To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Is Ved "Superior" or "More Fundamental" Knowledge?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, off_world_beings <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, off_world_beings > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > snip > > > > > It would make a better Hollywood ending. (Even though I am a > guy, > > > not a gal, as you seemed to mistake me for in a previous post. > Funny > > > how there are not a lot of women on this group) > > > > *** > > > > I did that because I thought I remembered a previous post where > you denied being a guy. > > My mistake. Perhaps. > > > > L B S > > > > Well it depends which one of us you are refering to. I'm the guy in > the photo in my profile pic. * Which has recently been changed. ;-) L B S To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Is Ved "Superior" or "More Fundamental" Knowledge?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, off_world_beings <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: snip > It would make a better Hollywood ending. (Even though I am a guy, > not a gal, as you seemed to mistake me for in a previous post. Funny > how there are not a lot of women on this group) *** I did that because I thought I remembered a previous post where you denied being a guy. My mistake. Perhaps. L B S To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Buddha
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > On Mar 12, 2005, at 3:24 PM, off_world_beings wrote: > > > Whoa. This 'vacaa' has to be the root or related to 'vaccum', since > > Latin has so much other Sanskrit in it, and Latin always seems to > > add a 'um' or 'us' on the end. > > Is this a Sanskrit word? 'Vaacaa'? > > In the Latin languages the Sanskrit "Vac" becomes Vox or Voce (It.) or > Voice (Eng.). ** The American Heritage dictionary links definitions to an appendix of Indo-European roots. The root for vacuum is eu. The entry in the appendix reads: Lacking, empty. *** Paraphrasing and skipping a bit because diacritics and special characters are not available, we find this root showing up in: The English "wane" and "wanton". Norse, to "lack, want". Latin "vanus", empty: vain, vanity, vaunt, evanesce, vanish. Latin "vacare", to be empty: vacant, vacate, vacation, vacuity, vacuum, evacuate. Extended forms: void, avoid, devoid. Extended and suffixed forms: waste, devastate. L B S To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Is Ved "Superior" or "More Fundamental" Knowledge?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, off_world_beings <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I'd be surprised if MANY aspects of Vedic practices survive. For > example, Rama went after Ravana in the Mahabharata, to get his wife > Sita back from the kidnapper Ravena. He suceeded, but as I > understand it then disowned Sita becuase she had been raped by > Ravenna. > If this is the story, (and please correct me anyone if I am wrong > about this) then I say to Rama, "What a sleezebag you are, you have > no place in a future race of Love." [If it is the wrong story then > I'll probably be struck down by lightening today...burnt to a crisp.] > ZZZP! Sorry, but you asked for that. The Ramayana is like those DVDs with "alternate endings"; Rama's treatment of Sita was so unpopular that many story tellers refused to include it and altered the ending for their audiences. However, even in the original it was not claimed that Sita was raped by Ravanna (may I be struck by lightening ). The problem, according to Rama, was that his subjects would THINK that she had been since she had spent a night there without her husband, and she would be as dishonored in their eyes as if she ACTUALLY had been. Therefore, he had to send her away so that his people would believe he had done the right thing. However, I think that also qualifies as "sleezebag" behavior. There are many passages in the Vedic literature which must either be understood has having an esoteric meaning (which only the initiated can grok) or otherwise regarded as immoral behavior (according to human standards). This persistent conundrum has created a great deal of confusionnot so much for scholars, I would guess, as for believers. L B S To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Development of Scripts in India
Thanks for the Danielou quote. Really beautiful. L B S --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > On Mar 12, 2005, at 10:45 AM, rudra_joe wrote: > > > One could further wonder if Brahmi, as Saraswati, might not also be > > the Dakini of the Dakini script used by the Awesome Yeshe Tsogal, and > > sung in such hymns as Song of the Vajra. > > Indeed many of the tertons who can access the Dakini language-code are > all masters of Sarasvati. You'd have to be tied into the > lady-of-letters at a primordial level. I propose that Sanskrit (and > similar languages) are the human equivalents fashioned when these texts > began to be written down. It was phonetically engineered to last. But > it came from a language like the Dakini. > > > > Perhaps it takes a Shakta at heart to be able to really pretty much > > disregard Vedism as so much male oriented fundamentalistic > > braggadocio. The Vedas themselves mean nothing. If they are eternal > > then they haven't helped people yet because we're still in the same > > boat. The only people they are really manifestly helping are the > > partriarchal and fascist Brahman caste of India. I find it really odd > > how people will tout spiritual ideologies without considering > > that they may only really deprive them of the human rights and > > democracy which 4 centuries of reason and rationaity of the West has > > promoted. One can argue that Vedic times were better but that's just > > really a pipedream, there's no proof that any time in history was ever > > better than this moment, and it's much the breakdown of Vedism in > > India that has promoted the rights and values of humans there, not its > > reestablishment which is synonomous with the BJP and fascist racial > > riots. I'm happy for those of you however who feel that you've found > > your path in Hinduism. It must feel great to have finally made a > > decision after all these centuries of searching. Finally your quest is > > over, you can go back to sleep now. Lucky you. Myself, I'm still > > looking always for a better way. I never felt that sleeping Vishnu > > would be able to wake me, but thats just my problem, I guess. My guess > > is also that most Brahmins want you to remain sleeping as well. So > > long as the money keeps flowing. Jai Guru Dev. You say it's all the > > Vedas. I say, the Vedas are 4 books, sung by a potentially fascist > > caste of slave holding dogmapalas. You say the Vedas bring > > enlightenment. I say they are just greater mental masturbation than > > ever before as they extol nothing useful whatsoever, that is, unless > > you're a Brahman. Of course MMY is now saying that the apurushaya ved > > includes the puranas, dharshanas, and most of the other literature. > > Again, another pundit, this one larger than life, only now > > exacerbating the value of his own religion to much more fundies > > heights than even Shankara dared. Round and around and around we go, > > I'm shocked that most of you guys don't remember all the terrible > > treatment we received as slaves under the Brahmins. I must have taken > > a vow to always reming You of this in a past life, because it is so > > obvious to me. Vedism creates monsters and fanatics. > > Nicely said. Very nicely said. > > I like what Danielou says on this specific topic. He hits the nail > right on the head: > > "The Sacred Books > > As we have seen, writing is an urban phenomenon, characteristic of the > Kali Yuga. To freeze the teachings of "prophets" in books regarded as > sacred is to paralyze the spirit of research; it fixes so-called > established truths and tends to create blind faith instead of the > search for knowledge. The nature of knowledge is to evolve. Like other > aspects of the human being, it knows periods of progress and decline. > The teaching of the Rishi(s) is a living thing that enables the species > to realize its role at various stages of its evolution. It can only be > transmitted by initiation through qualified individuals. The fixation > in Writings of the visions and perceptions of Seers, which represent > the forms of knowledge necessary at a certain moment of the evolution > of the species, whether it be a matter of cosmological, scientific, > religious, or moral ideas, presents grave risks. The sacred book valid > for all time and all people is a fiction. > > The new Sâmkhya sometimes replaces the word Agama (tradition) by the > word Veda (from the root vid, knowledge) to represent permanent > information (akshara), the plan that is at the basis of all aspects of > creation, the object of all research, all science, all metaphysics, all > true knowledge. Taken in this sense, the word Vedä has nothing to do > with the religious texts known by this name. The notion of Vedä > represents the belief in a universal law, the object of knowledge. This > implies the acceptance of the idea that there exists divi
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Development of Scripts in India
This was really sweet, RJ. I've been missing this voice for many months. L B S --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "rudra_joe" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > One will note the origination of Brahmi script as named for Saraswati, a > Dravidian Goddess, "Wife of the Originator Brahma", Devi, and original lineage of tantra which stems from Her Divinity Herself. One could further wonder if Brahmi, as Saraswati, might not also be the Dakini of the Dakini script used by the Awesome Yeshe Tsogal, and sung in such hymns as Song of the Vajra. Perhaps it takes a Shakta at heart to be able to really pretty much disregard Vedism as so much male oriented fundamentalistic braggadocio. The Vedas themselves mean nothing. If they are eternal then they haven't helped people yet because we're still in the same boat. The only people they are really manifestly helping are the partriarchal and fascist Brahman caste of India. I find it really odd how people will tout spiritual ideologies without considering that they may only really deprive them of the human rights and democracy which 4 centuries of reason and rationaity of the West has promoted. One can argue that Vedic times were better but that's just really a pipedream, there's no proof that any time in history was ever better than this moment, and it's much the breakdown of Vedism in India that has promoted the rights and values of humans there, not its reestablishment which is synonomous with the BJP and fascist racial riots. I'm happy for those of you however who feel that you've found your path in Hinduism. It must feel great to have finally made a decision after all these centuries of searching. Finally your quest is over, you can go back to sleep now. Lucky you. Myself, I'm still looking always for a better way. I never felt that sleeping Vishnu would be able to wake me, but thats just my problem, I guess. My guess is also that most Brahmins want you to remain sleeping as well. So long as the money keeps flowing. Jai Guru Dev. You say it's all the Vedas. I say, the Vedas are 4 books, sung by a potentially fascist caste of slave holding dogmapalas. You say the Vedas bring enlightenment. I say they are just greater mental masturbation than ever before as they extol nothing useful whatsoever, that is, unless you're a Brahman. Of course MMY is now saying that the apurushaya ved includes the puranas, dharshanas, and most of the other literature. Again, another pundit, this one larger than life, only now exacerbating the value of his own religion to much more fundies heights than even Shankara dared. Round and around and around we go, I'm shocked that most of you guys don't remember all the terrible treatment we received as slaves under the Brahmins. I must have taken a vow to always reming You of this in a past life, because it is so obvious to me. Vedism creates monsters and fanatics. > > If you think not, then go criticize a Brahmin and see the look you get. > Anyone ever has a Maharishi Jyotish reading? I'm sure these pundits who took your 300.00 didn't rise when you entered the room, nor shake your hand, nor nod their head, you Silly Western Cash Cow. Should this spiel sound as if it denies the value of TM then no. I have done nothing but extol the virtues of Sri Vidya, the Holy Tradition of the Northern Shanks, which is where the TM mantras come from. If you listen to our puja you hear the accolades of the male descendents of Vedism, but what is really enlightening you is the stream of awareness of Shrii, which stems back to Brahma's wife Saraswati, who is the real Shakti behind our tradition. So go Swami, Go Swami. (Brahmananda Saraswati) Frankly I'm personally sick of the lack of fundamental human rights of people who have been shucked off by their fiduciaries. And in spite of puranic stores to the contrary India is split between haves and have nots in an epic battle the likes of which weren't recorded since the Mahabharata. What's they battle? The battle for basic rights for all. You Vedism is a door stop in the door of freedom for millions. I wish it weren't so. But it is. > > > > > > > > > > > > > - Original Message - > From: Vaj > To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Saturday, March 12, 2005 7:59 AM > Subject: [FairfieldLife] The Development of Scripts in India > > > The Development of Scripts in India > > Until the discovery of the Indus Valley Civilization in 1920, ancient > India seemingly had two main scripts in which languages were written, > Brahmi and Kharosti. The Brahmi script developed under Semitic > influence around 7th c. BC, and was originally written from right to > left. The Kharosti script came into being during the 5th c. BC in > northwest India which was under Persian rule. Although the origin of > the Brahmi script is uncertain, the Kharosti script is commonly > accepted as a
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Development of Scripts in India
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, off_world_beings <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: massive snip > > Unfortunately , people spoke langauges and had cultures long before > they were written down, and the general concensus among scholars is > that there was a proto Indo Europena language which in terms of the > words it used Sankrit seems to have the closest relative words. This > Indo-European langauge has no proof of its existence, only > conjecture. Whatever Sanskrit came from, it is close to it. Even > English is just a dialect of a more ancient Sankrit like langiuage. > ** I thought English was primarily Germanic (as opposed to Romance). Are you saying that the Germanic group is "just a dialect" of the Sanskrit group? Sorry for the nit-picky question, but in this detail I feel inclined to inquire. L B S To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Buddha
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, off_world_beings <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, off_world_beings
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> >
> > snip
> >
> >
> > > Do you know the meaning of the word 'Ved'. It is a word in a
> > > language. It has a meaning. Write the meaning of this word in
> > > English as best you can. Then re-write your speil.
> >
> >
> >
> > This supports the point I made in a recent previous post about the
> difference between the
> > way you and Vaj use this word. Your use is more linguistic than
> historical. Do you consider
> > this a fair assessment? I'm thinking probably not, but hoping your
> assumed rebuttal will
> > go a little deeper.
> >
> > L B S
>
>
> I wrote something but I lost it . Stupid computers.
> Suffice to say 'Ved' is a word that is used by a vast culture. It
> gives us our word 'wisdom', 'Wizard', ('Witch' may be a version of
> it), also 'vision'. Even ' the three wise men' of the Bible, who
> came from the East, cannot escape. (They are also called ' the
> Majii' which gives us our word 'magician', and I wonder is it is
> related to the word 'maya'.)
> 'Ved' means 'knowledge' or 'wisdom'.
> If a Vedic culture exists 2,000 years from now, then it may infuse
> aspects of our science into it (those that are life-supporting,
> evolutionary, and useful) and drop the non-useful aspects. It may
> call its knowledge collection 'Knowledge', 'Wisdom ', or 'Ved'.
> Vedic culture (which just means wisdom) assimilates useful
> knowledge. (like the Borg:-) That is its nature.
> If aspects of Buddhism are found useful they too will be
> incorporated. I also assume aspects of the Vedic tradition that are
> nto useful to evolution, if such there be, will be dropped. Perhaps
> that what Buddha was trying to do, but it happens in a more natural
> way, on a human level. Although Maharishi is definately engaged in
> trying to re-estblish a system by which to live.
>
> Other interesting words off the top of my head:
> 'Agni', through 'angirasas' gives us our word 'angel'. 'Deva' gives
> us our word 'divine'. The 'Sidh' of the ancient Kelts (who came from
> the Vedic region) were ' beings of light' with the 'powers of the
> Sidh', very similar in concept to 'Sidhis'. There is an ancient
> Keltic God (possibly earlier) called 'Buddh', who some think is
> related to the Buddha story, but is probably more ancient than that
> and is a remnent of the concept of 'buddhi' and 'buddhas'.
Thanks for your response. It seems to answer my question.
L B S
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[FairfieldLife] Re: And How Would You Possibly Know (and If you Did, What Would It Matter)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, akasha_108 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > On Mar 11, 2005, at 7:44 PM, akasha_108 wrote: > > > > > > > - Vaj -- paraphrashing "its all tantric" > > > > > > This is not what I said. There are tantras/agamas. And there are > Vedas. > > > Eventually they reached some sort of symbiosis and blended. That's > > > "Hinduism" today. It is not ALL Vedic. It is NOT all Tantric. > > > > > > > > I support you on this Vaj. Akasha occasionally makes mistakes of > this nature, > > I certainly make mistakes -- and I sometimes make generalizations that > others disagree with (see my response to Vaj) > > and has even > > conceded that he sometimes does it on purpose. > > Refresh my memory on that. I am usually not so devious or cleaver to > do such. It has happened rarely, and you did acknowledge it in a context that assured it was good- natured provocation (as opposed to a pissing contest), but I can't give you the specifics now, and probably couldn't find it in the archive if I tried. If I am in error I apologize, but that is how I remember it. L B S To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: And How Would You Possibly Know (and If you Did, What Would It Matter)
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], off_world_beings <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Vaj <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > On Mar 11, 2005, at 8:35 PM, akasha_108 wrote: > > > > > I am simply questioning whether that is actually possible to > know the > > > full truth in most matters, particularly matters such as the > evolution > > > of esoteric knowledge over huge spans of time. > > > > > > It simply seems that humility about knowledge is the order of > the day, > > > not absolutist shrill claims of universal truth. > > > > My tack has been pretty simple. Listen to as many sides as I can > and > > grok the truth of the matter. > > > > > > Truth is a naive notion. Reality is older than truth. And thats the > truth ;-) Cop-out. ;-( L B S To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Buddha
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], off_world_beings <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: snip > Do you know the meaning of the word 'Ved'. It is a word in a > language. It has a meaning. Write the meaning of this word in > English as best you can. Then re-write your speil. This supports the point I made in a recent previous post about the difference between the way you and Vaj use this word. Your use is more linguistic than historical. Do you consider this a fair assessment? I'm thinking probably not, but hoping your assumed rebuttal will go a little deeper. L B S To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: And How Would You Possibly Know (and If you Did, What Would It Matter)
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Vaj <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > On Mar 11, 2005, at 7:44 PM, akasha_108 wrote: > > > Please present your method. > > I think it would be nice to know the truth as to how these traditions > came down to us. I love many of them, but I want to know the truth, not > something revisionist or something imaginary or something alleged. > > Truth is better than fiction. I used to be proud that I was a writer on "non-fiction". Then I discovered that fiction and nonfiction are apparently never found in their "pure" forms. Eventually I realized that great fiction, maybe even merely good fiction, can convey more "truth" than mediocre nonfiction. My prejudice againt fiction was, to some extent, sour grapes; I was badmouthing fiction instead of realizing that I just wasn't a good enough writer to work with it. I'm almost over that phase now, though. LBNOL (laughing, but not out loud) L B S To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: And How Would You Possibly Know (and If you Did, What Would It Matter)
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Vaj <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > On Mar 11, 2005, at 7:44 PM, akasha_108 wrote: > > > - Vaj -- paraphrashing "its all tantric" > > This is not what I said. There are tantras/agamas. And there are Vedas. > Eventually they reached some sort of symbiosis and blended. That's > "Hinduism" today. It is not ALL Vedic. It is NOT all Tantric. I support you on this Vaj. Akasha occasionally makes mistakes of this nature, and has even conceded that he sometimes does it on purpose. L B S To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Buddha
Response below. --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], off_world_beings <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > >>> > > > > The mantras, the bija-aksharas and dharanis of the TM meditation > > program, Vedic mantras right? No, the come from *specific* tantras > and > > do not appear in the four Vedas. > > > > The TM-Sidhi program and Patanjali--Vedic, right? Nope. > Patanjali's > > system of yoga stems from pre-Vedic trads. And guess > what...chapter > > four...it was added...it is not original... > > > > And on and on. Jyotish? nope. Ayurvedagee that even has the > word > > Veda in it...it MUST be Vedic! Nope. Sthapatyya Ved? Nope. The > > Upanishads? For the most part, no. > > > > I could go on, but I trust you get the point.>>> > > > These are all considered Vedic. And you can add Buddhism to that > list also. You are seperating out what cannot be seperated out. To > say that sthapatya ved and ayurved are not Vedic is ridiculous. > > Just because it is not in the four Vedas. The tradition has > encomapassed all of these and more. What you are trying to say is > that the tradition could not grow after the 4 vedas, which is > ridiculous. Krishna was Vedic, Buddha was Vedic also. > > You and the Buddhists are trying to create a > religion...'Buddhism'...as seperate from everything else. > If you claim that the 4 Vedas are the end of the Vedic tradition > then you are at odds with most scholars and most Hindus. > > 'The Buddh' means the Vedic concept of 'enlightened intellect'. OWB, you will probably be shocked to witness my admission that I do not claim expertise in this area, but having said that: As nearly as I can tell, and allowing for my usual penchant for oversimplification of complex issues: the view you are representing corresponds to what is known in contemporary India as Hindutva. (I would be interested in hearing other opinions regarding this assertion, perhaps even Vaj's.) At the risk of being somewhat irritating here, although that is not my intention, Hindutva is in some senses equated with the concept of Hindu fundamentalism, and every religious fundamentalism with which I am aquainted is at variance with scholarly and academic traditions. In point of fact, I do not believe that either camp holds the total truth, but the scholarly and academic traditions have one advantage in that they hold the prospect of advancing knowledge. They are open to change and revision. The fundamentalist schools hold that they have the invariant truth, and therefore are somewhat more closed to new knowledge except perhaps by revelation, which for some reason only the ancients seemed capable of. L B S To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Buddha
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Vaj <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > On Mar 11, 2005, at 6:18 PM, off_world_beings wrote: > > > As recorded in the Vedic Literature of in India > > I would define the Vedic literature as the four Vedas--and some of the > other literature often referred to as "Vedic". Much of what is naively > presumed as Vedic is, in fact, pre-Vedic. Hi Vaj, I think you have hit the core of the thing. I've been out playing for awhile (Friday night and all), so I am pretty far behind, but if you don't mind, I would like to give you my take on it. You are working, as far as I can tell, within the broader context of both academic and traditional thought. The use of the term "Vedic" is somewhat noticeably more restricted in this context, to a specific era (and to some extent, a specific locale). As used by Maharishi (please excuse my lecturing on something you most likely understand better than I), the term encompasses its broadest possible application, usually construed as "the source, course, and goal of all knowledge". The definition is more linguistic than historical. In the TMO, we were taught from the beginning that Maharishi's teachings represented a revival of the lost knowledge of the ancients, such that his interpretations were therefore more subtle, robust, and correct. It was our good fortune to have the benefit of his interpretations, by virtue of which we understood the truth of the Vedas in a way that even the scholars and sadhus of India could probably not hope to achieve in this lifetime without TM. I am not trying to be cynical here, and I would even grant that there was some truth in this understanding. However, as a result of our belief in that proposition, we collectively seemed to assume that we knew a lot about Indian philosophy and culture, when in fact we had only been spoonfed. Once I began to function "outside the fold" of the TMO, I was astonished and humbled to learn how little I actually knew about the larger world of Indica; I was even more astonished to learn how much the "other"less fortunatescholars and sadhus had gotten right, despite their lack of opportunity to get Maharishi's version. OWB has surprised me in this exchange by the extent of her research and comprehension of many of these issues of "Vedic" knowledge; however, as far as I can tell she is still commited to seeing through the lens provided by Maharishi and his movement. I respect that as a legitimate choice, although it is one I could not make for myself. Nor, obviously, could you. I look forward to another potential "battle of the titans", anticipating that it could be more productive than some of the mudslinging that has blown through recently. Ciao, L B S > > > 'Samadhi' (Vedic word used by Buddha - a Vedic yogi), > > or 'Nirvana '(Vedic word used by Buddha), are considered to be > > yagyas in the vedic tradition. > > These are "Sanskrit words", not "Vedic words". > > > To practice or experience Samadhi IS a yagya, and to realise Nirvana > > is also a yagya. > > You are extending the word beyond it's intended meaning. A Vedic yagya > is a ritual. This is what Shakyamuni did not approve of. This is the > context. In your context sex is a yajna, death is a yajna, etc. "Life > is sacrifice" > > There is little if any remnants of a "Vedic yoga"only in a > reconstructionist sense. > > The Vedic yagyas destroyed several Indian states with their excesses. > And they did little to improve life or bring anyone closer to > liberation. > > > > > Describe the Hindu concept of moksha in a couple of sentances, and > > then describe the Buddhist meaning of nirvana in a couple of > > sentances. I think you will find no difference, only semantic > > differences. > > These are experiences, not mere words. > > > > > Also, much of the Buddist teaching would be considered as yagyas in > > the Vedic tradition. (even the Buddhist 'suffering' has its > > correlate somewhat in the Vedic 'tapas') > > Keep in mind, there where Buddhas of the past and there have been > Buddhas since Shakyamuni! Buddhism is by no means confined to the > teaching of the "historical Buddha" Shakyamuni... > > Some Buddhas were also rishis. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
