[FairfieldLife] RE: Secret Doctrines
Re Ocean of Bliss: The Recent Sayings of Maharishi Mahesh Yogi: Thanks for the recommendation..
Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: Secret Doctrines
On Sat, Feb 1, 2014 at 8:12 PM, s3raph...@yahoo.com wrote: Re So we should KNOW to give importance to nothingness. And then we have in our grip the totality.: Thanks for sharing that. The whole MMY quote you post had me purring contentedly. What we really need is for someone of intelligence and discrimination to produce a book - The Essential Maharishi Mahesh Yogi - which could include all his choice prose. Ocean of Bliss: The Recent Sayings of Maharishi Mahesh Yogi by Rade Sibilahttp://www.amazon.com/s/ref=ntt_athr_dp_sr_1?_encoding=UTF8field-author=Rade%20Sibilasearch-alias=digital-textsort=relevancerank Amazon Digital Services, Inc.
Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: Secret Doctrines
thanks, Richard, wonderful explanation from nothingness about nothingness for the sake of nothingess, all via Maharishi (-: On Friday, January 31, 2014 10:32 PM, Richard Williams pundits...@gmail.com wrote: Everything Has Its Basis in Nothing MMY at Vlodrop, NE The thing is, everything has its basis in nothing. I am not talking poetry just now, I am talking physics. Everything has its basis in NOTHING. We see a big tree - thousands of leaves and branches and flowers and fruits. What it the basis of a tree? The basis of a tree is: hollowness - within the seed. And hollowness within the seed is nothingness, from where the whole tree springs. So that thing is very clear, that everything comes up from nothing. Transcendental Meditation is the experience of nothingness. But that nothingness is like the hollowness of the bunyan seed which has the basis of all the innumerable expressions. The thing is that my hand comes up, my eyes begin to see, my ears begin to hear. Where is 'I'? Hmmm? 'I' is that nothingness which sees through the eyes, through the ears, it moves the hands. That, in the Vedic terminology, is called 'devata'. 'Devata', if we want to translate, we say 'creative intelligence'. Devata is that infinite field of creativity - and different fields of creativity, within the hollowness of the seed. From within, the leaves come up, the branches come up, the flowers come up. These are different devatas which bring out the leaves, which bring out the flowers, which bring up. It's a different terminology. It's a different terminology which gives ex- pression to the values of nothingness. So let us know for all time that nothingness. We can call it in any term, but it's nothingness, it's abstraction, it's unmanifest reality. In the Vedic terms: nirgun nirakar. Nirgun nirakar - without any quality, without any shape. It's the field of the unmanifest. The field of the unmanifest is that unified field, where all the diverse values are present, not in the physical form, but in the form of abstract memories. In the Vedic terms they say smritis. In the smritis all the memories are there in the unmanifest. All the memories are there in the unmanifest, the same way as all the memories of the leaves, branches, flowers, fruits, they're all there in the nothingness within the hollowness of the seed. So we should KNOW to give importance to nothingness. And then we have in our grip the totality. By grabbing on to nothingness, to transcendental consciousness - which is abstraction, nothingness - we say self-referral consciousness, self-referral consciousness, self-referral intelligence, where all the different values are there in the unmanifest state. Transcendental Meditation takes us to experience that nothingness. An experience of nothingness is that experience which utilizes total physiology of the brain. Total physiology is put to use, is put to function, in the experience of that nothingness, which is the field of all knowledge, all action, all dynamism - the field of total natural law. And we say the field of the light of God, almighty God, the light of almighty God. So when we say 'nothingness', we mean there is no boundaries, there is no distinctions, there is nothing in isolation, there is one unified platform - unbounded nothingness. And there - different qualities of creative intelligence - different qualities of creative intelligence. In the Vedic literature - Shiva, Vishnu, Ganapati, Surya - all these different, different devatas - huge amount of devatas, devatas, devatas, devatas, devatas. They are the expressions of different qualities of creative intelligence. So let us know forever that if there is anything that should be known, it is nothingness that has to be known. And transcendental meditation is that nothingness which is the seat of all the laws of Nature, the seat of all possibilities - where all these wrong things, negative things of the dark ages, all that will disappear. Source: http://www.tmbulletin.net/ On Thu, Jan 2, 2014 at 9:14 AM, Richard J. Williams pundits...@gmail.com wrote: On 12/31/2013 10:35 PM, emptyb...@yahoo.com wrote: Back to the usual clap-trap. Without enlightenment, there's no Buddha. Without Buddha, there's no Buddhism. You're not even making any sense, Bill. The historical Buddha wrote nothing, and the language that he spoke is no longer extant. This being the case, a person such as yourself could hardly know what the Buddha taught about much of anything about ay secret doctrines. Apparently you can't even understand any Tibetan. Go figure. However, based on the research of learned scholars such as Robert Thurman, we can infer that the Buddha maintained a strict silence on the matters of the first cause. Not for nothing did they call the Buddha the Shakya the Muni, the silent sage of the Shakya clan. It's just not enough to declare all the historians to be clap-trap. You've got to at
[FairfieldLife] RE: Secret Doctrines
Yer so right. Let's review what we know. Yep, there's nothing here to know and apparently you got nothing out of it. Are we agreed so far?. Yep, we all agree - nothing here in the beginning, the middle or the end..
Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: Secret Doctrines
So, let's review what we know: These days almost nobody can read and understand the Sanskrit scriptures so it's a really good thing that somebody can elucidate what the ancients were talking about. According to what I've reaed, there is a close affinity between Advaita Vedanta and Yogacara Buddhism. This has been noted by many scholars and historians due to the fact that the BS (Brahma Sutras) seem to indicate that Badarayana may have been a pantheistic realist. This is certainly what Ramanuja and Madhva seemed to have believed - that a dualist or quasi-dualist (dwaita and/or vasisit-advaita) reading is possible from BS. Are we agreed so far? According to Werner, Their theory of Maya emerges from their belief in experiential reality of the absolute consciousness 'Brahman' (as emphasized in Upanishads), as opposed to Buddhist doctrine of emptiness, which emerges from the Buddhist approach of observing the nature of reality. The Upanishads were composed by transcendentalists, that is, the authors all believed in the existence of an Absolute, which was beyond or transcendental to, the world of the senses. According to what I've read, all the Upanishads were authored after the passing of the historical Buddha. Shankara taught that through direct knowledge one could realize Brahman. He taught that it was only through direct knowledge that one could realize Brahman. Vasabandhu taught that yoga is a direct knowledge experienced as emptiness - there is a co-dependency and non-origination. Werner says, A perception of the fact that the object seen is a rope will remove the fear and sorrow which result from the illusory idea that it is a snake. Cited from Shankara's Vivekachuudaamani verse #12/a metaphor that was borrowed from Yogacara Buddhist thinkers, who used it in a different context. Works cited: 'The Yogi and the Mystic' Karel Werner Routledge, 1995, p. 67. 'Sankaracarya' by S. Vidyasankar http://www.advaita-vedanta.org/avhp/sankara.html On Sat, Feb 1, 2014 at 7:31 AM, emptyb...@yahoo.com wrote: Yer so right. Let's review what we know. Yep, there's nothing here to know and apparently you got nothing out of it. Are we agreed so far?. Yep, we all agree - nothing here in the beginning, the middle or the end..
[FairfieldLife] RE: Secret Doctrines
Junior High level philosophy. Wiki punditry. Embarrassing half-baked knowledge. Against the Buddhist Subjective idealists (Vijñanavadin-s), who denied the existence of the external world, Shankara urges a number of arguments, the first and strongest among which is that we must admit the existence of what we actually perceive. If anyone has any suspicion that Shankara was a subjective idealist himself, let that be laid to rest here. In fact, he almost stoops to sarcasm when he suggests that we should no more pay heed to to a man who, while perceiving external things with his senses, denies their existence than believe the report of a man who, while eating and experiencing the feeling of satisfaction, avers that he does not do so. Strange as it may sound, mâyâvâda implies a very strong affirmation of the reality of the world. In this respect it goes as far as empiricism would want to go. No empiricist ever ascribes absolute reality to the world in any case. Hermeneurtical Essays on Vedântic Topics, John G. Arapura Professor Emeritus, McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, punditster@... wrote: So, let's review what we know: These days almost nobody can read and understand the Sanskrit scriptures so it's a really good thing that somebody can elucidate what the ancients were talking about. According to what I've reaed, there is a close affinity between Advaita Vedanta and Yogacara Buddhism. This has been noted by many scholars and historians due to the fact that the BS (Brahma Sutras) seem to indicate that Badarayana may have been a pantheistic realist. This is certainly what Ramanuja and Madhva seemed to have believed - that a dualist or quasi-dualist (dwaita and/or vasisit-advaita) reading is possible from BS. Are we agreed so far? According to Werner, Their theory of Maya emerges from their belief in experiential reality of the absolute consciousness 'Brahman' (as emphasized in Upanishads), as opposed to Buddhist doctrine of emptiness, which emerges from the Buddhist approach of observing the nature of reality. The Upanishads were composed by transcendentalists, that is, the authors all believed in the existence of an Absolute, which was beyond or transcendental to, the world of the senses. According to what I've read, all the Upanishads were authored after the passing of the historical Buddha. Shankara taught that through direct knowledge one could realize Brahman. He taught that it was only through direct knowledge that one could realize Brahman. Vasabandhu taught that yoga is a direct knowledge experienced as emptiness - there is a co-dependency and non-origination. Werner says, A perception of the fact that the object seen is a rope will remove the fear and sorrow which result from the illusory idea that it is a snake. Cited from Shankara's Vivekachuudaamani verse #12/a metaphor that was borrowed from Yogacara Buddhist thinkers, who used it in a different context. Works cited: 'The Yogi and the Mystic' Karel Werner Routledge, 1995, p. 67. 'Sankaracarya' by S. Vidyasankar http://www.advaita-vedanta.org/avhp/sankara.html http://www.advaita-vedanta.org/avhp/sankara.html On Sat, Feb 1, 2014 at 7:31 AM, emptybill@... mailto:emptybill@... wrote: Yer so right. Let's review what we know. Yep, there's nothing here to know and apparently you got nothing out of it. Are we agreed so far?. Yep, we all agree - nothing here in the beginning, the middle or the end..
[FairfieldLife] RE: Secret Doctrines
Re So we should KNOW to give importance to nothingness. And then we have in our grip the totality.: Thanks for sharing that. The whole MMY quote you post had me purring contentedly. What we really need is for someone of intelligence and discrimination to produce a book - The Essential Maharishi Mahesh Yogi - which could include all his choice prose.
Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: Secret Doctrines
Everything Has Its Basis in Nothing [image: Inline image 1] MMY at Vlodrop, NE The thing is, everything has its basis in nothing. I am not talking poetry just now, I am talking physics. Everything has its basis in NOTHING. We see a big tree - thousands of leaves and branches and flowers and fruits. What it the basis of a tree? The basis of a tree is: hollowness - within the seed. And hollowness within the seed is nothingness, from where the whole tree springs. So that thing is very clear, that everything comes up from nothing. Transcendental Meditation is the experience of nothingness. But that nothingness is like the hollowness of the bunyan seed which has the basis of all the innumerable expressions. The thing is that my hand comes up, my eyes begin to see, my ears begin to hear. Where is 'I'? Hmmm? 'I' is that nothingness which sees through the eyes, through the ears, it moves the hands. That, in the Vedic terminology, is called 'devata'. 'Devata', if we want to translate, we say 'creative intelligence'. Devata is that infinite field of creativity - and different fields of creativity, within the hollowness of the seed. From within, the leaves come up, the branches come up, the flowers come up. These are different devatas which bring out the leaves, which bring out the flowers, which bring up. It's a different terminology. It's a different terminology which gives ex- pression to the values of nothingness. So let us know for all time that nothingness. We can call it in any term, but it's nothingness, it's abstraction, it's unmanifest reality. In the Vedic terms: nirgun nirakar. Nirgun nirakar - without any quality, without any shape. It's the field of the unmanifest. The field of the unmanifest is that unified field, where all the diverse values are present, not in the physical form, but in the form of abstract memories. In the Vedic terms they say smritis. In the smritis all the memories are there in the unmanifest. All the memories are there in the unmanifest, the same way as all the memories of the leaves, branches, flowers, fruits, they're all there in the nothingness within the hollowness of the seed. So we should KNOW to give importance to nothingness. And then we have in our grip the totality. By grabbing on to nothingness, to transcendental consciousness - which is abstraction, nothingness - we say self-referral consciousness, self-referral consciousness, self-referral intelligence, where all the different values are there in the unmanifest state. Transcendental Meditation takes us to experience that nothingness. An experience of nothingness is that experience which utilizes total physiology of the brain. Total physiology is put to use, is put to function, in the experience of that nothingness, which is the field of all knowledge, all action, all dynamism - the field of total natural law. And we say the field of the light of God, almighty God, the light of almighty God. So when we say 'nothingness', we mean there is no boundaries, there is no distinctions, there is nothing in isolation, there is one unified platform - unbounded nothingness. And there - different qualities of creative intelligence - different qualities of creative intelligence. In the Vedic literature - Shiva, Vishnu, Ganapati, Surya - all these different, different devatas - huge amount of devatas, devatas, devatas, devatas, devatas. They are the expressions of different qualities of creative intelligence. So let us know forever that if there is anything that should be known, it is nothingness that has to be known. And transcendental meditation is that nothingness which is the seat of all the laws of Nature, the seat of all possibilities - where all these wrong things, negative things of the dark ages, all that will disappear. Source: http://www.tmbulletin.net/ On Thu, Jan 2, 2014 at 9:14 AM, Richard J. Williams pundits...@gmail.comwrote: On 12/31/2013 10:35 PM, emptyb...@yahoo.com wrote: Back to the usual clap-trap. Without enlightenment, there's no Buddha. Without Buddha, there's no Buddhism. You're not even making any sense, Bill. The historical Buddha wrote nothing, and the language that he spoke is no longer extant. This being the case, a person such as yourself could hardly know what the Buddha taught about much of anything about ay secret doctrines. Apparently you can't even understand any Tibetan. Go figure. However, based on the research of learned scholars such as Robert Thurman, we can infer that the Buddha maintained a strict silence on the matters of the first cause. Not for nothing did they call the Buddha the Shakya the Muni, the silent sage of the Shakya clan. It's just not enough to declare all the historians to be clap-trap. You've got to at least makes sense if you are going to participate in a discussion about the historical Buddha.
Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: Secret Doctrines
On 12/31/2013 10:35 PM, emptyb...@yahoo.com wrote: Back to the usual clap-trap. Without enlightenment, there's no Buddha. Without Buddha, there's no Buddhism. You're not even making any sense, Bill. The historical Buddha wrote nothing, and the language that he spoke is no longer extant. This being the case, a person such as yourself could hardly know what the Buddha taught about much of anything about ay secret doctrines. Apparently you can't even understand any Tibetan. Go figure. However, based on the research of learned scholars such as Robert Thurman, we can infer that the Buddha maintained a strict silence on the matters of the first cause. Not for nothing did they call the Buddha the Shakya the Muni, the silent sage of the Shakya clan. It's just not enough to declare all the historians to be clap-trap. You've got to at least makes sense if you are going to participate in a discussion about the historical Buddha.
[FairfieldLife] RE: Secret Doctrines
You are not going to get any more enlightenment than you are going to get. This sound similar to Robin's self-delusion. The real truth has long ago been put into plain words. No one is going to get enlightened. Ever! What is this enlightenment? There never was and never will be such a thing - except as the title for a cultural movement in British history. This term was used as a title for an 18th century European cultural era, which in English was called “The Enlightenment” but originally in German was titled Zeitalter der Aufklärung - the Age of Clearing Up. In the past 50 years, the term “enlightenment” became a silly Neo-Hindu neologism (i.e. post-Vivekananda). Now-a-days, Buddhists also love to use this as a synonym for Japanese Zen “kensho” or “satori” – mostly paraded around in books and magazines by Euro-American Buddhist writers. Pt … don’t tell anyone but any object, state or condition that has a beginning also has an end – by definition. “Experience”, also by definition, is a temporary appearance to a “perceiver”. Any experience of “enlightenment” is likewise just a transient occurrence that is judged (after the “fact”) to be “oh-so-significant”. Such “enlightenment” is utter make-believe. It is a false interpretation - both of Shankara’s Advaita and of Buddhist Mahamudra and Dzogchen.
[FairfieldLife] RE: Secret Doctrines
Doesn't sound at all like anything I ever saw Robin say, empty (delusional or otherwise). You are not going to get any more enlightenment than you are going to get. This sound similar to Robin's self-delusion. The real truth has long ago been put into plain words.
[FairfieldLife] RE: Secret Doctrines
Robin claimed enlightenment. Professor claims only as much. Enlightenment! Enlightenment! If it was a candy bar we could eat a piece to get only as much. If we ate the whole bar we could claim to be The World Teacher. Either way, when we got to the end we could say I gave it up.
[FairfieldLife] RE: Secret Doctrines
Something major happened to him, without any warning, on that mountain in 1976. Whatever it was, it lasted for more than 10 years, and he spent another 25 years in seclusion trying (apparently successfully) to get rid of it. Robin claimed enlightenment. Professor claims only as much. Enlightenment! Enlightenment! If it was a candy bar we could eat a piece to get only as much. If we ate the whole bar we could claim to be The World Teacher. Either way, when we got to the end we could say I gave it up.
[FairfieldLife] RE: Secret Doctrines
The photo you post of Lama Yongden was on the title page of The Secret Oral Teachings in Tibetan Buddhist Sects by Alexandra David-Neel. I bought the book decades ago in a regular book store and remember the assistant who served me couldn't stop smirking. Alas, the petty humiliations we must endure on our long road to awakening . . .
Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: Secret Doctrines
On 12/31/2013 12:14 PM, emptyb...@yahoo.com wrote: Such “enlightenment” is utter make-believe. It is a false interpretation - both of Shankara’s Advaita and of Buddhist Mahamudra and Dzogchen. First of all, there's no such thing as false interpretation, because there are numerous interpretations of what the historical Buddha taught - there were over eighteen sects withing fifty years of the Buddha's demise. So, there's your interpretation and there's my interpretation. So, the question is - what did the Buddha teach? Let's review what we know: The Buddhist term for enlightenment is bodhi which consists of nirvana, the same thing as kensho or satori. The Buddha achieved bodhi - that makes sense when you realize that bodhi is Sanskrit and Pali for buddha. The term Buddha means one who woke up - the goal of Buddhism. This awakening is an understanding into the nature of *causality*. Causality is how sentient beings come into existence. Causality is also the operation of the mind which keeps all sentient beings locked into craving, suffering and rebirth. So, bodhi is an understanding of how things are and thus the understanding of the way to liberate ones self from the prison of causality. The Buddha described causality as a wheel with twelve spokes: The Wheel of Dependent Origination. Are we agreed so far? In the Yogacara school of Vjarayana Buddhism, so-called because of its use of yoga techniques, the practice is described as a sudden turning about in the deepest seat of consciousness. Turning back the alaya vijnana into its original state of purity, a condition of non-attachment, non-discrimination and non-duality. This is illustrated in the Buddhist scriptures where the Buddha explained what he had attained at the moment of enlightenment - he attained three knowings, according to Warder: 1. Insight into his past lives 2. Insight into the workings of Karma and Reincarnation 3.Insight into the Four Noble Truths So, to sum up: Existence, the world, is the result of physical causation, in a logical process. And, its mechanics can be known, measured, and categorized. Humanity is governed by action-reaction, that is, karma, based on the theory of physical and moral reciprocity, which acts just like a mechanical, physical and natural law. Whatever goes up must come down; all things falls to the ground; there is a reaction to any action. This works on the physical level as well as on the mental level of thought. Works cited: 'Indian Buddhism' by A.K. Warder Motilal Banarsidass Publishers p. 45-50 'Causality: The Central Philosophy of Buddhism' by David J. Kalupahana University of Hawai'i Press, 1986 'Zen Buddhism: A History' by Heinrich Dumoulin World Wisdom Books, 'The Three Pillars of Zen' by Phillip Kapleau Shamballaha Publishing, 1989
[FairfieldLife] RE: Secret Doctrines
Back to the usual clap-trap. If there is no false interpretation then Buddhists are free to believe that: 1. there is an eternal Atman along with 2. a changeless, eternal substance supporting the universe and 3. a personal god who creates people like you to subvert the essential differences between traditions Congrads. Kumbaya ... all is one.
