Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: "Levitation-Part II
--- sparaig <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Patrick > Gillam" > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > Comments interleaved below. > > > > > > > Robert Gimbel wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Even Jesus levitated only in front of his > disciples.. > > > > > > Jesus did a lot of things that were out of the > ordinary, > > > but I don't recall levitation as being among > them. Where > > > did he levitate? > > > > Now that you've brought it up, I can remember any > tale > > of him levitating, either. I was reacting to what > Robert > > had written as a given, and about any siddhi. > > What would you call walking on water? Hydrolocomotion > > > > > > To subscribe, send a message to: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Or go to: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ > and click 'Join This Group!' > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: "Levitation-Part II
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Patrick Gillam" > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > Comments interleaved below. > > > > > > > Robert Gimbel wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Even Jesus levitated only in front of his disciples.. > > > > > > Jesus did a lot of things that were out of the ordinary, > > > but I don't recall levitation as being among them. Where > > > did he levitate? > > > > Now that you've brought it up, I can remember any tale > > of him levitating, either. I was reacting to what Robert > > had written as a given, and about any siddhi. > > What would you call walking on water? Uh...walking on water. Different siddhi, different energy. Related to walking on air or sitting in midair, but slightly different. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: "Levitation-Part II
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Patrick Gillam" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Comments interleaved below. > > > > > Robert Gimbel wrote: > > > > > > > > Even Jesus levitated only in front of his disciples.. > > > > Jesus did a lot of things that were out of the ordinary, > > but I don't recall levitation as being among them. Where > > did he levitate? > > Now that you've brought it up, I can remember any tale > of him levitating, either. I was reacting to what Robert > had written as a given, and about any siddhi. What would you call walking on water? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: "Levitation-Part II
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Patrick Gillam" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Comments interleaved below. > > > Robert Gimbel wrote: > > > > > > Even Jesus levitated only in front of his disciples.. > > Jesus did a lot of things that were out of the ordinary, > but I don't recall levitation as being among them. Where > did he levitate? Now that you've brought it up, I can remember any tale of him levitating, either. I was reacting to what Robert had written as a given, and about any siddhi. > >TurquoiseB wrote: > > > > And thus the question arises, would a stranger have seen him > > levitate? > > > > Jesus' students had worked with him for some time. They had > > been trained in whatever method of seeing into more subtle > > levels of creation that he taught. Perhaps what they saw was > > a phenomenon that only appeared to someone who could > > see on that level of subtlety. Perhaps a visitor would have > > sat there and seen nothing. > > I'm too lazy to open a Bible and confirm what's written > above, but it seems to be that Jesus sightings were indeed > spotty after the resurrection. In other words, some people > saw him, others did not. Granted, it may have had more to > do with whom Jesus chose to appear before than who had > the ability to perceive his post-crucifiction body. > > I've wondered as I've dipped into these discussions of > sidhis and perception whether the dynamics discussed > here explain the intermittency of those Jesus sightings. > > - Patrick Gillam To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: "Levitation-Part II
Comments interleaved below. > Robert Gimbel wrote: > > > > Even Jesus levitated only in front of his disciples.. Jesus did a lot of things that were out of the ordinary, but I don't recall levitation as being among them. Where did he levitate? >TurquoiseB wrote: > > And thus the question arises, would a stranger have seen him > levitate? > > Jesus' students had worked with him for some time. They had > been trained in whatever method of seeing into more subtle > levels of creation that he taught. Perhaps what they saw was > a phenomenon that only appeared to someone who could > see on that level of subtlety. Perhaps a visitor would have > sat there and seen nothing. I'm too lazy to open a Bible and confirm what's written above, but it seems to be that Jesus sightings were indeed spotty after the resurrection. In other words, some people saw him, others did not. Granted, it may have had more to do with whom Jesus chose to appear before than who had the ability to perceive his post-crucifiction body. I've wondered as I've dipped into these discussions of sidhis and perception whether the dynamics discussed here explain the intermittency of those Jesus sightings. - Patrick Gillam To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: "Levitation-Part II
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Robert Gimbel" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > -- The ability to float the body, must come from the ability to > maintain an extremely high vibration. > > As was mentioned before, I don't believe the ability to levitate or > perform any of the Siddhis, can be as important than the goal of > Self-Realization, or Enlightenment. There are some traditions that feel that setting enlightenment as a "goal" is the very thing that prevents it from being realized. > Of course, how could it be any other way? As stated above. Or, as some Tibetan monks I've met live their lives, by setting the goal of personal enlightenment as a far lower priority than the goal of helping each person they meet during the day in whatever way they can. I honestly don't know if this approach helps or hinders their personal enlightenment, but it sure does seem to make them happy campers. As a general rule, the less time one of these monks seems to spend thinking about himself or his own personal enlightenment, the happier he is. And, when it appears within that community, the converse seems to be true -- those monks who get hung up focusing on their own enlightenment dont' seem to be very happy, or to laugh much. I'm sure you've all seen what I'm talking about. Some person is genuinely committed or "one-pointed" about his own enlightenment. He lives, breathes, and eats whatever he thinks will "get him there" faster. And along the Way, he treats people around him like shit. Zero compassion, zero interest in actually helping other people, zero humanity. Is it any wonder that such people don't seem to get enlightened very often? > Getting lost in any "power" would be a diversion from the path. I agree. I remain unconvinced that the siddhis have any real effect in terms of creating "higher coherence" or a higher vibe for the world at large. For me, their main value seems to be as 1) a teaching device, to help students loosen their ideas of what is possible and what is not, 2) a learning device, as students begin to master these things themselves, and find that they're pretty everyday and not nearly as flashy or impor- tant as they once seemed, and 3) fun. I've never understood the facination some people have for "powers" and "miracles." The whole Jesus story, water into wine, walking on water, that sorta thing. Big deal. Because I never made (and still do not make) any link between the ability to do these things and a teacher's state of conscious- ness, the ability to perform siddhis is, for me, just a "perk" in studying with a particular teacher. Siddhis, schmiddis. The bottom line for me is how well that teacher meditates, and how effectively he or she can transmit that ability to his or her students. > In comentary's Maharishi has said, that the siddhis were given from > more gross to more subtle. > > In this way, the siddhis help to begin to discriminate, not only > pure consciousness, but also the different levels of creation, from > gross to subtle. There I absolutely agree. As stated recently, I remain unconvinced that some of the siddhis actually *have* a physical counterpart. That is, I suspect (based on my own experience and that of hundreds of friends) that for some of the siddhis one has to be able to perceive at more subtle levels to even be *aware* of the siddhi as it is being per- formed. This would add one benefit to the three listed above -- the growing ability to perceive at finer levels. > Also, any particular aspect of any siddhi that was needed would > spontaneously be available to one who is Realized. This I don't believe is true. There are many, many, many stories of fully-realized individuals who never developed a facility with the siddhis. I think it's a predilection thing. Some enlightened beings, whose nature is to enjoy the manipulation of energies, gravitate to the siddhis, whether through a program of study, or spontaneously. Other enlightened beings couldn't care less, and thus do not develop either an interest in or a facility with the siddhis. > So, that any particular siddhi, or any particular ability which > might be expressed, at any given time, is only a bi-product of the > expanded state of inner-consciousness, which is available all of the > time. I'm definitely going to have to disagree on this one. My experience -- whatever it was -- convinces me that the siddhis do NOT have to do with the state of consciousness we call enlightenment. They have to do with OTHER states of attention, relative states. One can "move into" the states of attention that manifest the siddhis without being enlight- ened. And vice-versa. Just my opinion. > My feeling is about the flying siddhi, is that it really raises the > vibration, in the individual and the environment, and intensifies, > the radiance effect of the experience of pure consciousness. I'm less convinced. I think that the performance of any siddhi does g
