[FairfieldLife] Re: CC - a stepping stone and Humpty Dumpty's purported Enlightenment

[doctordumbass]

Thanks. Given the terse language in the passage, it does sound as if he 
underwent a profound transformation at a late age. Better late than never. 
Funny how the intellect can get so wrapped up in truth and right and wrong, and 
then after awhile it turns to the heart for support, and if the heart has 
retained its capacity to bring emotional awareness to everything the intellect 
discovers, the result is Yoga. 

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Buck"  wrote:
>
> Doc, I thought you might appreciate this guy's experience illuminating of 
> another age:  
> "He was a member of 
> the orthodox branch of the Friends church, strictly moral 
> and upright, although he did not experience a change of 
> heart until he was 65 years of age. Would speak of it with 
> great regret that he had lived so long without a religious 
> experience. The change wrought a wonderful transfor- 
> mation. Always manifesting a meek and quiet spirit, now 
> he became even more tender and Christ-like in his life, 
> striving to better the condition of those about him and 
> gathering in the children to teach them the scriptures. 
> He died at the home of his son, Richard, in Davis Co., 
> Kansas, of neuralgia of the heart, 11th month, 17th, 1883."
> 
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctordumbass@  wrote:
> >
> > Thanks, and best regards to you!
> > 
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Buck"  wrote:
> > >
> > > Doc,
> > > Yep, good writing.
> > > Nice perspective of experience.
> > > Best Regards,
> > > -Buck
> > > 
> > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctordumbass@  wrote:
> > > >
> > > > (couldn't figure out why my response to you wasn't posting, until I saw 
> > > > you had modified your post). Anyway, the previous one was better, and 
> > > > included the relevant portions of Xeno's post, so I kept my response, 
> > > > as it was, without an update:
> > > > 
> > > > Ok, I'll start here. By the way, Ravi, I am not on some kind of 
> > > > vendetta towards you. You said some things that pissed me off, and I 
> > > > wanted to let you know it. Unless you have more to say about it, I 
> > > > don't.
> > > > 
> > > > Regarding Xeno's post, I'll take it from here: (snipped his intro and 
> > > > some other stuff for clarity) 
> > > > 
> > > > XA:
> > > > > > Especially with initial experiences there is a strong tendency, of 
> > > > > > which
> > > > > > we are usually almost completely unaware, to be full of ourselves. 
> > > > > > We now
> > > > > > 'know' something others do not know. Our ego co-ops the experience 
> > > > > > and we
> > > > > > strut around like total ass holes with our new-found toy. 
> > > > 
> > > > **Before addressing your sweeping generalization, I'd like to touch on 
> > > > context. This forum serves as a sounding board for spiritual 
> > > > expression. Put another way, nothing is out of bounds, nor considered 
> > > > absolute here.
> > > > 
> > > > Therefore, and considering there are some who can appreciate the 
> > > > expression, I will sometimes discuss elements of my enlightenment, and 
> > > > am always careful to point out that initial liberation is merely a 
> > > > marker, like CC. Personal growth never, ever stops - I think everyone 
> > > > here agrees with that statement, regardless of which side of the 
> > > > enlightenment divide, we sit on.
> > > > 
> > > > I do not really know where I am relative to the seven states of 
> > > > consciousness that Maharishi set out. I remember CC quite well, and 
> > > > someone said it is the state where we relate to the Silence within us, 
> > > > but are most divorced from anything on the outside. We don't yet 
> > > > embrace the outside as ourselves. Still capable of individual love, but 
> > > > not yet universal love. 
> > > > 
> > > > Very true, and a hugely painful place to live. One that I confronted as 
> > > > much as possible, to get me the hell out of there as quickly as 
> > > > possible. Very unpleasant - poor emotional integration in CC. We have 
> > > > the whole world, only it is still us, and them. Leaks into the outer 
> > > > environment also - not just someplace like FFL, but real life as well.
> > > > 
> > > > So, if I could try to explain what has happened since the onset of CC 
> > > > (early 2005), I would say that life events became increasingly  
> > > > challenging and stressful, imagine that, culminating in an almost 
> > > > unbearable intensity for about the last four years, and the only path 
> > > > for survival I had, was straight through the middle. Everyone and 
> > > > everything dear to me was slipping away from me, and I could do nothing 
> > > > but place myself in the center of it, and manage through it. 
> > > > 
> > > > This forced me to transcend the wall of ignorance I saw before me in 
> > > > CC, to something much more accessible and wonderful. A new, fresh 
> > > > world, of authentic human beings, each one a miracle in their own 
> > > > right. A life in general full of wonder. 

[FairfieldLife] Re: CC - a stepping stone and Humpty Dumpty's purported Enlightenment

[Buck]

Doc, I thought you might appreciate this guy's experience illuminating of 
another age:  
"He was a member of 
the orthodox branch of the Friends church, strictly moral 
and upright, although he did not experience a change of 
heart until he was 65 years of age. Would speak of it with 
great regret that he had lived so long without a religious 
experience. The change wrought a wonderful transfor- 
mation. Always manifesting a meek and quiet spirit, now 
he became even more tender and Christ-like in his life, 
striving to better the condition of those about him and 
gathering in the children to teach them the scriptures. 
He died at the home of his son, Richard, in Davis Co., 
Kansas, of neuralgia of the heart, 11th month, 17th, 1883."

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctordumbass@...  wrote:
>
> Thanks, and best regards to you!
> 
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Buck"  wrote:
> >
> > Doc,
> > Yep, good writing.
> > Nice perspective of experience.
> > Best Regards,
> > -Buck
> > 
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctordumbass@  wrote:
> > >
> > > (couldn't figure out why my response to you wasn't posting, until I saw 
> > > you had modified your post). Anyway, the previous one was better, and 
> > > included the relevant portions of Xeno's post, so I kept my response, as 
> > > it was, without an update:
> > > 
> > > Ok, I'll start here. By the way, Ravi, I am not on some kind of vendetta 
> > > towards you. You said some things that pissed me off, and I wanted to let 
> > > you know it. Unless you have more to say about it, I don't.
> > > 
> > > Regarding Xeno's post, I'll take it from here: (snipped his intro and 
> > > some other stuff for clarity) 
> > > 
> > > XA:
> > > > > Especially with initial experiences there is a strong tendency, of 
> > > > > which
> > > > > we are usually almost completely unaware, to be full of ourselves. We 
> > > > > now
> > > > > 'know' something others do not know. Our ego co-ops the experience 
> > > > > and we
> > > > > strut around like total ass holes with our new-found toy. 
> > > 
> > > **Before addressing your sweeping generalization, I'd like to touch on 
> > > context. This forum serves as a sounding board for spiritual expression. 
> > > Put another way, nothing is out of bounds, nor considered absolute here.
> > > 
> > > Therefore, and considering there are some who can appreciate the 
> > > expression, I will sometimes discuss elements of my enlightenment, and am 
> > > always careful to point out that initial liberation is merely a marker, 
> > > like CC. Personal growth never, ever stops - I think everyone here agrees 
> > > with that statement, regardless of which side of the enlightenment 
> > > divide, we sit on.
> > > 
> > > I do not really know where I am relative to the seven states of 
> > > consciousness that Maharishi set out. I remember CC quite well, and 
> > > someone said it is the state where we relate to the Silence within us, 
> > > but are most divorced from anything on the outside. We don't yet embrace 
> > > the outside as ourselves. Still capable of individual love, but not yet 
> > > universal love. 
> > > 
> > > Very true, and a hugely painful place to live. One that I confronted as 
> > > much as possible, to get me the hell out of there as quickly as possible. 
> > > Very unpleasant - poor emotional integration in CC. We have the whole 
> > > world, only it is still us, and them. Leaks into the outer environment 
> > > also - not just someplace like FFL, but real life as well.
> > > 
> > > So, if I could try to explain what has happened since the onset of CC 
> > > (early 2005), I would say that life events became increasingly  
> > > challenging and stressful, imagine that, culminating in an almost 
> > > unbearable intensity for about the last four years, and the only path for 
> > > survival I had, was straight through the middle. Everyone and everything 
> > > dear to me was slipping away from me, and I could do nothing but place 
> > > myself in the center of it, and manage through it. 
> > > 
> > > This forced me to transcend the wall of ignorance I saw before me in CC, 
> > > to something much more accessible and wonderful. A new, fresh world, of 
> > > authentic human beings, each one a miracle in their own right. A life in 
> > > general full of wonder. So many mysteries to be tickled by, and 
> > > innocently discovered. 
> > > 
> > > By continuing to break down that wall between me and you, I have been 
> > > able to experience everything, more and more, simply as myself - an 
> > > identity shift. I enjoy some parts of myself more than others - lol, and 
> > > I have always been my harshest critic. There is constant room for growth 
> > > and acceptance within me, and an insatiable thirst for discovery and 
> > > growth.
> > > 
> > > So it is an interesting thing that my personality has not changed much, 
> > > nor is it apparent through my outer expression, that the things I say of 
> > > "others"

[FairfieldLife] Re: CC - a stepping stone and Humpty Dumpty's purported Enlightenment

[doctordumbass]

Thanks, and best regards to you!

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Buck"  wrote:
>
> Doc,
> Yep, good writing.
> Nice perspective of experience.
> Best Regards,
> -Buck
> 
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctordumbass@  wrote:
> >
> > (couldn't figure out why my response to you wasn't posting, until I saw you 
> > had modified your post). Anyway, the previous one was better, and included 
> > the relevant portions of Xeno's post, so I kept my response, as it was, 
> > without an update:
> > 
> > Ok, I'll start here. By the way, Ravi, I am not on some kind of vendetta 
> > towards you. You said some things that pissed me off, and I wanted to let 
> > you know it. Unless you have more to say about it, I don't.
> > 
> > Regarding Xeno's post, I'll take it from here: (snipped his intro and some 
> > other stuff for clarity) 
> > 
> > XA:
> > > > Especially with initial experiences there is a strong tendency, of which
> > > > we are usually almost completely unaware, to be full of ourselves. We 
> > > > now
> > > > 'know' something others do not know. Our ego co-ops the experience and 
> > > > we
> > > > strut around like total ass holes with our new-found toy. 
> > 
> > **Before addressing your sweeping generalization, I'd like to touch on 
> > context. This forum serves as a sounding board for spiritual expression. 
> > Put another way, nothing is out of bounds, nor considered absolute here.
> > 
> > Therefore, and considering there are some who can appreciate the 
> > expression, I will sometimes discuss elements of my enlightenment, and am 
> > always careful to point out that initial liberation is merely a marker, 
> > like CC. Personal growth never, ever stops - I think everyone here agrees 
> > with that statement, regardless of which side of the enlightenment divide, 
> > we sit on.
> > 
> > I do not really know where I am relative to the seven states of 
> > consciousness that Maharishi set out. I remember CC quite well, and someone 
> > said it is the state where we relate to the Silence within us, but are most 
> > divorced from anything on the outside. We don't yet embrace the outside as 
> > ourselves. Still capable of individual love, but not yet universal love. 
> > 
> > Very true, and a hugely painful place to live. One that I confronted as 
> > much as possible, to get me the hell out of there as quickly as possible. 
> > Very unpleasant - poor emotional integration in CC. We have the whole 
> > world, only it is still us, and them. Leaks into the outer environment also 
> > - not just someplace like FFL, but real life as well.
> > 
> > So, if I could try to explain what has happened since the onset of CC 
> > (early 2005), I would say that life events became increasingly  challenging 
> > and stressful, imagine that, culminating in an almost unbearable intensity 
> > for about the last four years, and the only path for survival I had, was 
> > straight through the middle. Everyone and everything dear to me was 
> > slipping away from me, and I could do nothing but place myself in the 
> > center of it, and manage through it. 
> > 
> > This forced me to transcend the wall of ignorance I saw before me in CC, to 
> > something much more accessible and wonderful. A new, fresh world, of 
> > authentic human beings, each one a miracle in their own right. A life in 
> > general full of wonder. So many mysteries to be tickled by, and innocently 
> > discovered. 
> > 
> > By continuing to break down that wall between me and you, I have been able 
> > to experience everything, more and more, simply as myself - an identity 
> > shift. I enjoy some parts of myself more than others - lol, and I have 
> > always been my harshest critic. There is constant room for growth and 
> > acceptance within me, and an insatiable thirst for discovery and growth.
> > 
> > So it is an interesting thing that my personality has not changed much, nor 
> > is it apparent through my outer expression, that the things I say of 
> > "others" are speaking to those elements of myself, as them. My identity now 
> > includes them, and you, and the other.
> > 
> > Condemnation and truly giving up on another are impossible, because I would 
> > be doing the same to me. However, a good (written) kick in the butt, never 
> > hurt anyone, including me. Aim carefully, though. :-)
> > 
> > If I missed anything, please let me know. Thanks.
> > 
> > And if we are
> > > > more aged and mature and we have a truly deep insight, this may, almost
> > > > certainly, occur to some extent, and it can be very subtle, and we may 
> > > > be
> > > > unaware yet, of its insidious presence. In some traditions this is 
> > > > called
> > > > the 'stink of enlightenment'. It can last for years and years.
> > > >
> > > > Now I am making up some rules here (and copping some from various
> > > > teachers):
> > > >
> > > > *If you are still seeking a higher level of experience, you are not
> > > > liberated.
> > > >
> > > > *If you feel the reali

[FairfieldLife] Re: CC - a stepping stone and Humpty Dumpty's purported Enlightenment

[Buck]

Doc,
Yep, good writing.
Nice perspective of experience.
Best Regards,
-Buck

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctordumbass@...  wrote:
>
> (couldn't figure out why my response to you wasn't posting, until I saw you 
> had modified your post). Anyway, the previous one was better, and included 
> the relevant portions of Xeno's post, so I kept my response, as it was, 
> without an update:
> 
> Ok, I'll start here. By the way, Ravi, I am not on some kind of vendetta 
> towards you. You said some things that pissed me off, and I wanted to let you 
> know it. Unless you have more to say about it, I don't.
> 
> Regarding Xeno's post, I'll take it from here: (snipped his intro and some 
> other stuff for clarity) 
> 
> XA:
> > > Especially with initial experiences there is a strong tendency, of which
> > > we are usually almost completely unaware, to be full of ourselves. We now
> > > 'know' something others do not know. Our ego co-ops the experience and we
> > > strut around like total ass holes with our new-found toy. 
> 
> **Before addressing your sweeping generalization, I'd like to touch on 
> context. This forum serves as a sounding board for spiritual expression. Put 
> another way, nothing is out of bounds, nor considered absolute here.
> 
> Therefore, and considering there are some who can appreciate the expression, 
> I will sometimes discuss elements of my enlightenment, and am always careful 
> to point out that initial liberation is merely a marker, like CC. Personal 
> growth never, ever stops - I think everyone here agrees with that statement, 
> regardless of which side of the enlightenment divide, we sit on.
> 
> I do not really know where I am relative to the seven states of consciousness 
> that Maharishi set out. I remember CC quite well, and someone said it is the 
> state where we relate to the Silence within us, but are most divorced from 
> anything on the outside. We don't yet embrace the outside as ourselves. Still 
> capable of individual love, but not yet universal love. 
> 
> Very true, and a hugely painful place to live. One that I confronted as much 
> as possible, to get me the hell out of there as quickly as possible. Very 
> unpleasant - poor emotional integration in CC. We have the whole world, only 
> it is still us, and them. Leaks into the outer environment also - not just 
> someplace like FFL, but real life as well.
> 
> So, if I could try to explain what has happened since the onset of CC (early 
> 2005), I would say that life events became increasingly  challenging and 
> stressful, imagine that, culminating in an almost unbearable intensity for 
> about the last four years, and the only path for survival I had, was straight 
> through the middle. Everyone and everything dear to me was slipping away from 
> me, and I could do nothing but place myself in the center of it, and manage 
> through it. 
> 
> This forced me to transcend the wall of ignorance I saw before me in CC, to 
> something much more accessible and wonderful. A new, fresh world, of 
> authentic human beings, each one a miracle in their own right. A life in 
> general full of wonder. So many mysteries to be tickled by, and innocently 
> discovered. 
> 
> By continuing to break down that wall between me and you, I have been able to 
> experience everything, more and more, simply as myself - an identity shift. I 
> enjoy some parts of myself more than others - lol, and I have always been my 
> harshest critic. There is constant room for growth and acceptance within me, 
> and an insatiable thirst for discovery and growth.
> 
> So it is an interesting thing that my personality has not changed much, nor 
> is it apparent through my outer expression, that the things I say of "others" 
> are speaking to those elements of myself, as them. My identity now includes 
> them, and you, and the other.
> 
> Condemnation and truly giving up on another are impossible, because I would 
> be doing the same to me. However, a good (written) kick in the butt, never 
> hurt anyone, including me. Aim carefully, though. :-)
> 
> If I missed anything, please let me know. Thanks.
> 
> And if we are
> > > more aged and mature and we have a truly deep insight, this may, almost
> > > certainly, occur to some extent, and it can be very subtle, and we may be
> > > unaware yet, of its insidious presence. In some traditions this is called
> > > the 'stink of enlightenment'. It can last for years and years.
> > >
> > > Now I am making up some rules here (and copping some from various
> > > teachers):
> > >
> > > *If you are still seeking a higher level of experience, you are not
> > > liberated.
> > >
> > > *If you feel the realisations you have had are important, that you look
> > > back on them, you are not liberated.
> > >
> > > *If you do not see that enlightenment is a kind of cosmic joke, but is a
> > > deadly serious goal, you are not liberated.
> > >
> > > *If you think you have a new, improved relationship with the universe, 

[FairfieldLife] Re: CC - a stepping stone and Humpty Dumpty's purported Enlightenment

[doctordumbass]

Oh...The Do Nothing Critic is backyawn...how ya doin', jerk-off?

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb  wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctordumbass@  wrote:
> >
> > I couldn't figure out why you were calling me fat, until 
> > you referred to my lame interview on BatGap - no diss 
> > on you, Rick. :-)
> > 
> > Yes, I was huge then, heavier than I have ever been - 
> > 260 lbs. plus.  Can you say WALRUS, man boobs, the whole 
> > thing?? I've lost all that weight and it was a fairly 
> > brief phase, brought on by eating as stress relief - 
> > obviously not an awesome coping mechanism. 
> 
> THIS is why a number of us refer to Jimbo as "turnip
> brain." He's giving the second-lamest "I'm so enlight-
> ened" interview ever to appear on Rick's site (the first 
> lamest being Ravi's, of course), and he's fat as a pig. 
> When asked about it, he says his corpulence was caused 
> by "eating as stress relief."
> 
> Tell me, oh brainwashed TM minions, isn't Maharishi's
> definition of CC/enlightenment being *FREE* from stress?
> 
> :-)
> 
> > Anyway, I don't look like that anymore. Longer hair, 
> > a lot less weight. 
> 
> Especially in the cranial cavity, it would seem. :-)
>

[FairfieldLife] Re: CC - a stepping stone and Humpty Dumpty's purported Enlightenment

[sparaig]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb  wrote:
[,,,]
> Tell me, oh brainwashed TM minions, isn't Maharishi's
> definition of CC/enlightenment being *FREE* from stress?
> 

Actually, CC is just where you are sufficiently stress-free that you never lose 
pure consciousness. The correlates for this might vary a great deal from person 
to person and I could see someone at the outer edge of the bell curve remaining 
extremely stressed, with lots of stress-coping mechanisms still in play, even 
though technically they were in CC.

Monks probably never encounter people like in monastaries that so their 
theories don't account for such edge-cases.

L

[FairfieldLife] Re: CC - a stepping stone and Humpty Dumpty's purported Enlightenment

[turquoiseb]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctordumbass@...  wrote:
>
> I couldn't figure out why you were calling me fat, until 
> you referred to my lame interview on BatGap - no diss 
> on you, Rick. :-)
> 
> Yes, I was huge then, heavier than I have ever been - 
> 260 lbs. plus.  Can you say WALRUS, man boobs, the whole 
> thing?? I've lost all that weight and it was a fairly 
> brief phase, brought on by eating as stress relief - 
> obviously not an awesome coping mechanism. 

THIS is why a number of us refer to Jimbo as "turnip
brain." He's giving the second-lamest "I'm so enlight-
ened" interview ever to appear on Rick's site (the first 
lamest being Ravi's, of course), and he's fat as a pig. 
When asked about it, he says his corpulence was caused 
by "eating as stress relief."

Tell me, oh brainwashed TM minions, isn't Maharishi's
definition of CC/enlightenment being *FREE* from stress?

:-)

> Anyway, I don't look like that anymore. Longer hair, 
> a lot less weight. 

Especially in the cranial cavity, it would seem. :-)

[FairfieldLife] Re: CC - a stepping stone and Humpty Dumpty's purported Enlightenment

[doctordumbass]

I couldn't figure out why you were calling me fat, until you referred to my 
lame interview on BatGap - no diss on you, Rick. :-)

Yes, I was huge then, heavier than I have ever been - 260 lbs. plus.  Can you 
say WALRUS, man boobs, the whole thing?? I've lost all that weight and it was a 
fairly brief phase, brought on by eating as stress relief - obviously not an 
awesome coping mechanism. 

Anyway, I don't look like that anymore. Longer hair, a lot less weight. You 
should have said something regarding your assumptions - made me look like a 
liar, when actually it was you taking stuff out of context - weird move, R.  

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctordumbass@...  wrote:
>
> Really?? Obese? Nah. I am 6'2 and 220 lbs. Check out something called the 
> athletic BMI and you'll see I am not fat. But on a regular BMI chart I show 
> up fat. Go figure (muscle is heavier than fat). 
> 
> A couple of years ago I finished landscaping my backyard. Aggregate weight of 
> all the stone I put in place, and dirt and bricks removed, was around ten 
> tons. No machinery, except hand tools and a strong back. No, I am not some 
> fat slug as you imagine Ravi, and also look ten years younger than I am. Quit 
> making shit up, fool.
> 
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ravi Chivukula  wrote:
> >
> > "Maharishi also once called CC a stepping stone."
> > 
> > Oh wow - that would explain a lot of things with Jim.
> > 
> > A young skinny Jim while washing dishes at a remote TM center somewhere in
> > the Midwest hears this cool teacher Barry brag to a chick - "Maharishi sez
> > CC is a stepping stone".
> > 
> > Jimbo soon moves on, because he was never smart enough, cool enough, rich
> > enough - but he never forgets. Time flies by but he always remembers that
> > "CC is a stepping stone" as he retires every night.
> > 
> > Soon Jimbo is no longer skinny. Lots of water has flown down the Ganges and
> > Jimbo is now a clearly weary middle aged, rather..how do I put this in a
> > sensitive, politically correct way, well rather obese, who swears he won't
> > return wherever unless he is enlightened. He begins his quest for the magic
> > stone CC.
> > 
> > He hasn't forgotten what Barry had once said. He knows he has to step on CC
> > to scale the wall of samsaara and haul his sorry, obese ass to GC and
> > beyond.
> > 
> > But Jimbo being an idiot had failed to take into account that the magic
> > stone CC was built by skinny, starving Indian yogis who prided on their
> > life-abnegating, masochistic skills as spirituality to masquerade their
> > lack of materialistic opportunities. They clearly hadn't bargained a
> > society materially rich where people enjoyed life and that there would be
> > the possibility of an obese albiet weary Jimbo trying to step on it. It was
> > only designed to handle 160 pounds !!!
> > 
> > Well Jimbo stepped onto CC enthusiastically as he lurched to scale the wall
> > of samsara. But poor Humpty Dumpty Jim landed on his sorry, obese ass. He
> > was humiliated, ashamed, embarrassed as CC split into two little C's.
> > 
> > Oh how sad poor Jim must have been - I have tears in my eyes just
> > contemplating that pathetic scene.
> > 
> > This had a tremendous impact on Humpty Dumpty Jim. He recalled that
> > enlightened was hard to measure in one's actions - he had many, many inane,
> > banal platitudes by heart. Out of his incredible pain and sadness came a
> > beautiful story of his purported Enlightenment.
> > 
> > Which of course didn't convince Bob Price who after a couple of minutes of
> > watching Jim's interview started cleaning CD's - but whatever. Jimbo - this
> > is terrible, I think I may well refrain from making fun of your
> > enlightenment. I can see why your buttons get pushed anytime people start
> > criticizing Maharishi, TM and now Girish. You can't help it - I'm sorry I
> > pissed you off, I didn't know your Enlightenment was hiding all this pain
> > of your humiliation.
> > 
> > On Fri, Mar 15, 2013 at 2:08 PM, Share Long  wrote:
> > 
> > > **
> > >
> > >
> > > Nice list, Xeno.  Maharishi also once called CC a stepping stone.  Good or
> > > something like that.  But a stepping stone.
> > >
> > >
> > >   --
> > > *From:* Xenophaneros Anartaxius 
> > > *To:* FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
> > > *Sent:* Friday, March 15, 2013 10:46 AM
> > > *Subject:* [FairfieldLife] Barry and Curtis's hubris [was Re: A lie is
> > > only a lie]
> > >
> > >
> > > 
> > >
> >
>

[FairfieldLife] Re: CC - a stepping stone and Humpty Dumpty's purported Enlightenment

[doctordumbass]

I was actually born in Chula Vista, which is a lot closer to the Mexican 
border. Spent three months there, and it was off to Malaya (Malaysia) after 
that. Give it a rest, chump change, or are you beginning to appreciate the 
inevitable slings and arrows coming your way, as a result of your poor 
judgment? Barry is kinda into that too, as Judy and I discovered. Just let us 
know what your safe word is.

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ravi Chivukula  wrote:
>
> Yes, nothing surprising dear Jim - I am sure you will opt for a new handle.
> I would suggest one of your old handles "sandiego108". I am totally in love
> with the San Diego area and we will have something authentic to talk about
> then. A welcome change from your usual inane, banal platitudes, your blind
> support for sexual abusers and charlatan Gurus, your idiotic abiding
> silence - in sum your present evolution to MC (Mindless Consciousness).
> 
> On Sat, Mar 16, 2013 at 1:32 AM, doctordumbass@... <
> no_re...@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
> 
> > **
> >
> >
> > I found the rest of your post gibberish, so I couldn't respond, even if I
> > wanted to. So, get some rest, and hope you aren't all cranky when you get
> > up next time. I am not responsible for the stuff you come up with, Ravi.
> > Only you are, so I will leave it in your lap, and bid you a sweet Adieu! :-)
> >
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ravi Chivukula 
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > Right - you are 220, CC stone is 160 - so don't fuck with me Jim - the
> > math
> > > doesn't add up. You are just proving my story.
> > >
> > > Seriously you can do better than this Jim - you look like a big idiot
> > with
> > > your response.
> > >
> > > Anyone intelligent enough will understand the purpose of my story - it is
> > > ironical, it is sarcastic - it will include gross exaggerations with
> > > generous doses of insults. Don't tell me you are so dumb that you can't
> > > read the subtext underneath it. You have done nothing to answer my core
> > > arguments against the deception that is your enlightenment. You don't
> > have
> > > any strength of character, any conviction, you don't show any
> > intelligence.
> > >
> > > How pitiful !!!
> > >
> > > On Sat, Mar 16, 2013 at 1:06 AM, doctordumbass@ <
> > > no_re...@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > > **
> >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Really?? Obese? Nah. I am 6'2 and 220 lbs. Check out something called
> > the
> > > > athletic BMI and you'll see I am not fat. But on a regular BMI chart I
> > show
> > > > up fat. Go figure (muscle is heavier than fat).
> > > >
> > > > A couple of years ago I finished landscaping my backyard. Aggregate
> > weight
> > > > of all the stone I put in place, and dirt and bricks removed, was
> > around
> > > > ten tons. No machinery, except hand tools and a strong back. No, I am
> > not
> > > > some fat slug as you imagine Ravi, and also look ten years younger
> > than I
> > > > am. Quit making shit up, fool.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ravi Chivukula 
> > > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > "Maharishi also once called CC a stepping stone."
> > > > >
> > > > > Oh wow - that would explain a lot of things with Jim.
> > > > >
> > > > > A young skinny Jim while washing dishes at a remote TM center
> > somewhere
> > > > in
> > > > > the Midwest hears this cool teacher Barry brag to a chick -
> > "Maharishi
> > > > sez
> > > > > CC is a stepping stone".
> > > > >
> > > > > Jimbo soon moves on, because he was never smart enough, cool enough,
> > rich
> > > > > enough - but he never forgets. Time flies by but he always remembers
> > that
> > > > > "CC is a stepping stone" as he retires every night.
> > > > >
> > > > > Soon Jimbo is no longer skinny. Lots of water has flown down the
> > Ganges
> > > > and
> > > > > Jimbo is now a clearly weary middle aged, rather..how do I put this
> > in a
> > > > > sensitive, politically correct way, well rather obese, who swears he
> > > > won't
> > > > > return wherever unless he is enlightened. He begins his quest for the
> > > > magic
> > > > > stone CC.
> > > > >
> > > > > He hasn't forgotten what Barry had once said. He knows he has to
> > step on
> > > > CC
> > > > > to scale the wall of samsaara and haul his sorry, obese ass to GC and
> > > > > beyond.
> > > > >
> > > > > But Jimbo being an idiot had failed to take into account that the
> > magic
> > > > > stone CC was built by skinny, starving Indian yogis who prided on
> > their
> > > > > life-abnegating, masochistic skills as spirituality to masquerade
> > their
> > > > > lack of materialistic opportunities. They clearly hadn't bargained a
> > > > > society materially rich where people enjoyed life and that there
> > would be
> > > > > the possibility of an obese albiet weary Jimbo trying to step on it.
> > It
> > > > was
> > > > > only designed to handle 160 pounds !!!
> > > > >
> > > > > Well Jimbo stepped onto CC enthusiastically as he lurched to scale
> > the
> > > > wall
> > > > > of sams

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: CC - a stepping stone and Humpty Dumpty's purported Enlightenment

[Ravi Chivukula]

Yes, nothing surprising dear Jim - I am sure you will opt for a new handle.
I would suggest one of your old handles "sandiego108". I am totally in love
with the San Diego area and we will have something authentic to talk about
then. A welcome change from your usual inane, banal platitudes, your blind
support for sexual abusers and charlatan Gurus, your idiotic abiding
silence - in sum your present evolution to MC (Mindless Consciousness).

On Sat, Mar 16, 2013 at 1:32 AM, doctordumb...@rocketmail.com <
no_re...@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

> **
>
>
> I found the rest of your post gibberish, so I couldn't respond, even if I
> wanted to. So, get some rest, and hope you aren't all cranky when you get
> up next time. I am not responsible for the stuff you come up with, Ravi.
> Only you are, so I will leave it in your lap, and bid you a sweet Adieu! :-)
>
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ravi Chivukula 
> wrote:
> >
> > Right - you are 220, CC stone is 160 - so don't fuck with me Jim - the
> math
> > doesn't add up. You are just proving my story.
> >
> > Seriously you can do better than this Jim - you look like a big idiot
> with
> > your response.
> >
> > Anyone intelligent enough will understand the purpose of my story - it is
> > ironical, it is sarcastic - it will include gross exaggerations with
> > generous doses of insults. Don't tell me you are so dumb that you can't
> > read the subtext underneath it. You have done nothing to answer my core
> > arguments against the deception that is your enlightenment. You don't
> have
> > any strength of character, any conviction, you don't show any
> intelligence.
> >
> > How pitiful !!!
> >
> > On Sat, Mar 16, 2013 at 1:06 AM, doctordumbass@... <
> > no_re...@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
> >
> > > **
>
> > >
> > >
> > > Really?? Obese? Nah. I am 6'2 and 220 lbs. Check out something called
> the
> > > athletic BMI and you'll see I am not fat. But on a regular BMI chart I
> show
> > > up fat. Go figure (muscle is heavier than fat).
> > >
> > > A couple of years ago I finished landscaping my backyard. Aggregate
> weight
> > > of all the stone I put in place, and dirt and bricks removed, was
> around
> > > ten tons. No machinery, except hand tools and a strong back. No, I am
> not
> > > some fat slug as you imagine Ravi, and also look ten years younger
> than I
> > > am. Quit making shit up, fool.
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ravi Chivukula 
> > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > "Maharishi also once called CC a stepping stone."
> > > >
> > > > Oh wow - that would explain a lot of things with Jim.
> > > >
> > > > A young skinny Jim while washing dishes at a remote TM center
> somewhere
> > > in
> > > > the Midwest hears this cool teacher Barry brag to a chick -
> "Maharishi
> > > sez
> > > > CC is a stepping stone".
> > > >
> > > > Jimbo soon moves on, because he was never smart enough, cool enough,
> rich
> > > > enough - but he never forgets. Time flies by but he always remembers
> that
> > > > "CC is a stepping stone" as he retires every night.
> > > >
> > > > Soon Jimbo is no longer skinny. Lots of water has flown down the
> Ganges
> > > and
> > > > Jimbo is now a clearly weary middle aged, rather..how do I put this
> in a
> > > > sensitive, politically correct way, well rather obese, who swears he
> > > won't
> > > > return wherever unless he is enlightened. He begins his quest for the
> > > magic
> > > > stone CC.
> > > >
> > > > He hasn't forgotten what Barry had once said. He knows he has to
> step on
> > > CC
> > > > to scale the wall of samsaara and haul his sorry, obese ass to GC and
> > > > beyond.
> > > >
> > > > But Jimbo being an idiot had failed to take into account that the
> magic
> > > > stone CC was built by skinny, starving Indian yogis who prided on
> their
> > > > life-abnegating, masochistic skills as spirituality to masquerade
> their
> > > > lack of materialistic opportunities. They clearly hadn't bargained a
> > > > society materially rich where people enjoyed life and that there
> would be
> > > > the possibility of an obese albiet weary Jimbo trying to step on it.
> It
> > > was
> > > > only designed to handle 160 pounds !!!
> > > >
> > > > Well Jimbo stepped onto CC enthusiastically as he lurched to scale
> the
> > > wall
> > > > of samsara. But poor Humpty Dumpty Jim landed on his sorry, obese
> ass. He
> > > > was humiliated, ashamed, embarrassed as CC split into two little C's.
> > > >
> > > > Oh how sad poor Jim must have been - I have tears in my eyes just
> > > > contemplating that pathetic scene.
> > > >
> > > > This had a tremendous impact on Humpty Dumpty Jim. He recalled that
> > > > enlightened was hard to measure in one's actions - he had many, many
> > > inane,
> > > > banal platitudes by heart. Out of his incredible pain and sadness
> came a
> > > > beautiful story of his purported Enlightenment.
> > > >
> > > > Which of course didn't convince Bob Price who after a couple of
> minutes
> > > of
> > > > watchin

[FairfieldLife] Re: CC - a stepping stone and Humpty Dumpty's purported Enlightenment

[doctordumbass]

I found the rest of your post gibberish, so I couldn't respond, even if I 
wanted to. So, get some rest, and hope you aren't all cranky when you get up 
next time. I am not responsible for the stuff you come up with, Ravi. Only you 
are, so I will leave it in your lap, and bid you a sweet Adieu! :-)

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ravi Chivukula  wrote:
>
> Right - you are 220, CC stone is 160 - so don't fuck with me Jim - the math
> doesn't add up. You are just proving my story.
> 
> Seriously you can do better than this Jim - you look like a big idiot with
> your response.
> 
> Anyone intelligent enough will understand the purpose of my story - it is
> ironical, it is sarcastic - it will include gross exaggerations with
> generous doses of insults. Don't tell me you are so dumb that you can't
> read the subtext underneath it. You have done nothing to answer my core
> arguments against the deception that is your enlightenment. You don't have
> any strength of character, any conviction, you don't show any intelligence.
> 
> How pitiful !!!
> 
> On Sat, Mar 16, 2013 at 1:06 AM, doctordumbass@... <
> no_re...@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
> 
> > **
> >
> >
> > Really?? Obese? Nah. I am 6'2 and 220 lbs. Check out something called the
> > athletic BMI and you'll see I am not fat. But on a regular BMI chart I show
> > up fat. Go figure (muscle is heavier than fat).
> >
> > A couple of years ago I finished landscaping my backyard. Aggregate weight
> > of all the stone I put in place, and dirt and bricks removed, was around
> > ten tons. No machinery, except hand tools and a strong back. No, I am not
> > some fat slug as you imagine Ravi, and also look ten years younger than I
> > am. Quit making shit up, fool.
> >
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ravi Chivukula 
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > "Maharishi also once called CC a stepping stone."
> > >
> > > Oh wow - that would explain a lot of things with Jim.
> > >
> > > A young skinny Jim while washing dishes at a remote TM center somewhere
> > in
> > > the Midwest hears this cool teacher Barry brag to a chick - "Maharishi
> > sez
> > > CC is a stepping stone".
> > >
> > > Jimbo soon moves on, because he was never smart enough, cool enough, rich
> > > enough - but he never forgets. Time flies by but he always remembers that
> > > "CC is a stepping stone" as he retires every night.
> > >
> > > Soon Jimbo is no longer skinny. Lots of water has flown down the Ganges
> > and
> > > Jimbo is now a clearly weary middle aged, rather..how do I put this in a
> > > sensitive, politically correct way, well rather obese, who swears he
> > won't
> > > return wherever unless he is enlightened. He begins his quest for the
> > magic
> > > stone CC.
> > >
> > > He hasn't forgotten what Barry had once said. He knows he has to step on
> > CC
> > > to scale the wall of samsaara and haul his sorry, obese ass to GC and
> > > beyond.
> > >
> > > But Jimbo being an idiot had failed to take into account that the magic
> > > stone CC was built by skinny, starving Indian yogis who prided on their
> > > life-abnegating, masochistic skills as spirituality to masquerade their
> > > lack of materialistic opportunities. They clearly hadn't bargained a
> > > society materially rich where people enjoyed life and that there would be
> > > the possibility of an obese albiet weary Jimbo trying to step on it. It
> > was
> > > only designed to handle 160 pounds !!!
> > >
> > > Well Jimbo stepped onto CC enthusiastically as he lurched to scale the
> > wall
> > > of samsara. But poor Humpty Dumpty Jim landed on his sorry, obese ass. He
> > > was humiliated, ashamed, embarrassed as CC split into two little C's.
> > >
> > > Oh how sad poor Jim must have been - I have tears in my eyes just
> > > contemplating that pathetic scene.
> > >
> > > This had a tremendous impact on Humpty Dumpty Jim. He recalled that
> > > enlightened was hard to measure in one's actions - he had many, many
> > inane,
> > > banal platitudes by heart. Out of his incredible pain and sadness came a
> > > beautiful story of his purported Enlightenment.
> > >
> > > Which of course didn't convince Bob Price who after a couple of minutes
> > of
> > > watching Jim's interview started cleaning CD's - but whatever. Jimbo -
> > this
> > > is terrible, I think I may well refrain from making fun of your
> > > enlightenment. I can see why your buttons get pushed anytime people start
> > > criticizing Maharishi, TM and now Girish. You can't help it - I'm sorry I
> > > pissed you off, I didn't know your Enlightenment was hiding all this pain
> > > of your humiliation.
> > >
> > > On Fri, Mar 15, 2013 at 2:08 PM, Share Long  wrote:
> > >
> > > > **
> >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Nice list, Xeno. Maharishi also once called CC a stepping stone. Good
> > or
> > > > something like that. But a stepping stone.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > *From:* Xenophaneros Anartaxius 
> > > > *To:* FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
> > >

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: CC - a stepping stone and Humpty Dumpty's purported Enlightenment

[Ravi Chivukula]

Right - you are 220, CC stone is 160 - so don't fuck with me Jim - the math
doesn't add up. You are just proving my story.

Seriously you can do better than this Jim - you look like a big idiot with
your response.

Anyone intelligent enough will understand the purpose of my story - it is
ironical, it is sarcastic - it will include gross exaggerations with
generous doses of insults. Don't tell me you are so dumb that you can't
read the subtext underneath it. You have done nothing to answer my core
arguments against the deception that is your enlightenment. You don't have
any strength of character, any conviction, you don't show any intelligence.

How pitiful !!!

On Sat, Mar 16, 2013 at 1:06 AM, doctordumb...@rocketmail.com <
no_re...@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

> **
>
>
> Really?? Obese? Nah. I am 6'2 and 220 lbs. Check out something called the
> athletic BMI and you'll see I am not fat. But on a regular BMI chart I show
> up fat. Go figure (muscle is heavier than fat).
>
> A couple of years ago I finished landscaping my backyard. Aggregate weight
> of all the stone I put in place, and dirt and bricks removed, was around
> ten tons. No machinery, except hand tools and a strong back. No, I am not
> some fat slug as you imagine Ravi, and also look ten years younger than I
> am. Quit making shit up, fool.
>
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ravi Chivukula 
> wrote:
> >
> > "Maharishi also once called CC a stepping stone."
> >
> > Oh wow - that would explain a lot of things with Jim.
> >
> > A young skinny Jim while washing dishes at a remote TM center somewhere
> in
> > the Midwest hears this cool teacher Barry brag to a chick - "Maharishi
> sez
> > CC is a stepping stone".
> >
> > Jimbo soon moves on, because he was never smart enough, cool enough, rich
> > enough - but he never forgets. Time flies by but he always remembers that
> > "CC is a stepping stone" as he retires every night.
> >
> > Soon Jimbo is no longer skinny. Lots of water has flown down the Ganges
> and
> > Jimbo is now a clearly weary middle aged, rather..how do I put this in a
> > sensitive, politically correct way, well rather obese, who swears he
> won't
> > return wherever unless he is enlightened. He begins his quest for the
> magic
> > stone CC.
> >
> > He hasn't forgotten what Barry had once said. He knows he has to step on
> CC
> > to scale the wall of samsaara and haul his sorry, obese ass to GC and
> > beyond.
> >
> > But Jimbo being an idiot had failed to take into account that the magic
> > stone CC was built by skinny, starving Indian yogis who prided on their
> > life-abnegating, masochistic skills as spirituality to masquerade their
> > lack of materialistic opportunities. They clearly hadn't bargained a
> > society materially rich where people enjoyed life and that there would be
> > the possibility of an obese albiet weary Jimbo trying to step on it. It
> was
> > only designed to handle 160 pounds !!!
> >
> > Well Jimbo stepped onto CC enthusiastically as he lurched to scale the
> wall
> > of samsara. But poor Humpty Dumpty Jim landed on his sorry, obese ass. He
> > was humiliated, ashamed, embarrassed as CC split into two little C's.
> >
> > Oh how sad poor Jim must have been - I have tears in my eyes just
> > contemplating that pathetic scene.
> >
> > This had a tremendous impact on Humpty Dumpty Jim. He recalled that
> > enlightened was hard to measure in one's actions - he had many, many
> inane,
> > banal platitudes by heart. Out of his incredible pain and sadness came a
> > beautiful story of his purported Enlightenment.
> >
> > Which of course didn't convince Bob Price who after a couple of minutes
> of
> > watching Jim's interview started cleaning CD's - but whatever. Jimbo -
> this
> > is terrible, I think I may well refrain from making fun of your
> > enlightenment. I can see why your buttons get pushed anytime people start
> > criticizing Maharishi, TM and now Girish. You can't help it - I'm sorry I
> > pissed you off, I didn't know your Enlightenment was hiding all this pain
> > of your humiliation.
> >
> > On Fri, Mar 15, 2013 at 2:08 PM, Share Long  wrote:
> >
> > > **
>
> > >
> > >
> > > Nice list, Xeno. Maharishi also once called CC a stepping stone. Good
> or
> > > something like that. But a stepping stone.
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > *From:* Xenophaneros Anartaxius 
> > > *To:* FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
> > > *Sent:* Friday, March 15, 2013 10:46 AM
> > > *Subject:* [FairfieldLife] Barry and Curtis's hubris [was Re: A lie is
>
> > > only a lie]
> > >
> > >
> > > 
> > >
> >
>
>  
>

[FairfieldLife] Re: CC - a stepping stone and Humpty Dumpty's purported Enlightenment

[doctordumbass]

Really?? Obese? Nah. I am 6'2 and 220 lbs. Check out something called the 
athletic BMI and you'll see I am not fat. But on a regular BMI chart I show up 
fat. Go figure (muscle is heavier than fat). 

A couple of years ago I finished landscaping my backyard. Aggregate weight of 
all the stone I put in place, and dirt and bricks removed, was around ten tons. 
No machinery, except hand tools and a strong back. No, I am not some fat slug 
as you imagine Ravi, and also look ten years younger than I am. Quit making 
shit up, fool.

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ravi Chivukula  wrote:
>
> "Maharishi also once called CC a stepping stone."
> 
> Oh wow - that would explain a lot of things with Jim.
> 
> A young skinny Jim while washing dishes at a remote TM center somewhere in
> the Midwest hears this cool teacher Barry brag to a chick - "Maharishi sez
> CC is a stepping stone".
> 
> Jimbo soon moves on, because he was never smart enough, cool enough, rich
> enough - but he never forgets. Time flies by but he always remembers that
> "CC is a stepping stone" as he retires every night.
> 
> Soon Jimbo is no longer skinny. Lots of water has flown down the Ganges and
> Jimbo is now a clearly weary middle aged, rather..how do I put this in a
> sensitive, politically correct way, well rather obese, who swears he won't
> return wherever unless he is enlightened. He begins his quest for the magic
> stone CC.
> 
> He hasn't forgotten what Barry had once said. He knows he has to step on CC
> to scale the wall of samsaara and haul his sorry, obese ass to GC and
> beyond.
> 
> But Jimbo being an idiot had failed to take into account that the magic
> stone CC was built by skinny, starving Indian yogis who prided on their
> life-abnegating, masochistic skills as spirituality to masquerade their
> lack of materialistic opportunities. They clearly hadn't bargained a
> society materially rich where people enjoyed life and that there would be
> the possibility of an obese albiet weary Jimbo trying to step on it. It was
> only designed to handle 160 pounds !!!
> 
> Well Jimbo stepped onto CC enthusiastically as he lurched to scale the wall
> of samsara. But poor Humpty Dumpty Jim landed on his sorry, obese ass. He
> was humiliated, ashamed, embarrassed as CC split into two little C's.
> 
> Oh how sad poor Jim must have been - I have tears in my eyes just
> contemplating that pathetic scene.
> 
> This had a tremendous impact on Humpty Dumpty Jim. He recalled that
> enlightened was hard to measure in one's actions - he had many, many inane,
> banal platitudes by heart. Out of his incredible pain and sadness came a
> beautiful story of his purported Enlightenment.
> 
> Which of course didn't convince Bob Price who after a couple of minutes of
> watching Jim's interview started cleaning CD's - but whatever. Jimbo - this
> is terrible, I think I may well refrain from making fun of your
> enlightenment. I can see why your buttons get pushed anytime people start
> criticizing Maharishi, TM and now Girish. You can't help it - I'm sorry I
> pissed you off, I didn't know your Enlightenment was hiding all this pain
> of your humiliation.
> 
> On Fri, Mar 15, 2013 at 2:08 PM, Share Long  wrote:
> 
> > **
> >
> >
> > Nice list, Xeno.  Maharishi also once called CC a stepping stone.  Good or
> > something like that.  But a stepping stone.
> >
> >
> >   --
> > *From:* Xenophaneros Anartaxius 
> > *To:* FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
> > *Sent:* Friday, March 15, 2013 10:46 AM
> > *Subject:* [FairfieldLife] Barry and Curtis's hubris [was Re: A lie is
> > only a lie]
> >
> >
> > 
> >
>

[FairfieldLife] Re: CC - a stepping stone and Humpty Dumpty's purported Enlightenment

[doctordumbass]

(couldn't figure out why my response to you wasn't posting, until I saw you had 
modified your post). Anyway, the previous one was better, and included the 
relevant portions of Xeno's post, so I kept my response, as it was, without an 
update:

Ok, I'll start here. By the way, Ravi, I am not on some kind of vendetta 
towards you. You said some things that pissed me off, and I wanted to let you 
know it. Unless you have more to say about it, I don't.

Regarding Xeno's post, I'll take it from here: (snipped his intro and some 
other stuff for clarity) 

XA:
> > Especially with initial experiences there is a strong tendency, of which
> > we are usually almost completely unaware, to be full of ourselves. We now
> > 'know' something others do not know. Our ego co-ops the experience and we
> > strut around like total ass holes with our new-found toy. 

**Before addressing your sweeping generalization, I'd like to touch on context. 
This forum serves as a sounding board for spiritual expression. Put another 
way, nothing is out of bounds, nor considered absolute here.

Therefore, and considering there are some who can appreciate the expression, I 
will sometimes discuss elements of my enlightenment, and am always careful to 
point out that initial liberation is merely a marker, like CC. Personal growth 
never, ever stops - I think everyone here agrees with that statement, 
regardless of which side of the enlightenment divide, we sit on.

I do not really know where I am relative to the seven states of consciousness 
that Maharishi set out. I remember CC quite well, and someone said it is the 
state where we relate to the Silence within us, but are most divorced from 
anything on the outside. We don't yet embrace the outside as ourselves. Still 
capable of individual love, but not yet universal love. 

Very true, and a hugely painful place to live. One that I confronted as much as 
possible, to get me the hell out of there as quickly as possible. Very 
unpleasant - poor emotional integration in CC. We have the whole world, only it 
is still us, and them. Leaks into the outer environment also - not just 
someplace like FFL, but real life as well.

So, if I could try to explain what has happened since the onset of CC (early 
2005), I would say that life events became increasingly  challenging and 
stressful, imagine that, culminating in an almost unbearable intensity for 
about the last four years, and the only path for survival I had, was straight 
through the middle. Everyone and everything dear to me was slipping away from 
me, and I could do nothing but place myself in the center of it, and manage 
through it. 

This forced me to transcend the wall of ignorance I saw before me in CC, to 
something much more accessible and wonderful. A new, fresh world, of authentic 
human beings, each one a miracle in their own right. A life in general full of 
wonder. So many mysteries to be tickled by, and innocently discovered. 

By continuing to break down that wall between me and you, I have been able to 
experience everything, more and more, simply as myself - an identity shift. I 
enjoy some parts of myself more than others - lol, and I have always been my 
harshest critic. There is constant room for growth and acceptance within me, 
and an insatiable thirst for discovery and growth.

So it is an interesting thing that my personality has not changed much, nor is 
it apparent through my outer expression, that the things I say of "others" are 
speaking to those elements of myself, as them. My identity now includes them, 
and you, and the other.

Condemnation and truly giving up on another are impossible, because I would be 
doing the same to me. However, a good (written) kick in the butt, never hurt 
anyone, including me. Aim carefully, though. :-)

If I missed anything, please let me know. Thanks.

And if we are
> > more aged and mature and we have a truly deep insight, this may, almost
> > certainly, occur to some extent, and it can be very subtle, and we may be
> > unaware yet, of its insidious presence. In some traditions this is called
> > the 'stink of enlightenment'. It can last for years and years.
> >
> > Now I am making up some rules here (and copping some from various
> > teachers):
> >
> > *If you are still seeking a higher level of experience, you are not
> > liberated.
> >
> > *If you feel the realisations you have had are important, that you look
> > back on them, you are not liberated.
> >
> > *If you do not see that enlightenment is a kind of cosmic joke, but is a
> > deadly serious goal, you are not liberated.
> >
> > *If you think you have a new, improved relationship with the universe, you
> > are not liberated.
> >
> > *If you think others lack enlightenment or the capacity thereto, you are
> > not liberated. That does not mean you are absent the full value of
> > enlightenment or ever were.
> >
> > *These rules are baloney but if applied properly may keep one from
> > tripping over one's own feet to so