[FairfieldLife] Re: Can group meditation bring World Peace? John Hagelin explains
. .. "But, brothers, patience and hope! We know what we are working for, we know that the truth of God is on our side, that he has no attributes that can favor the existing order of fraud, oppression, carnage and consequent wretchedness. We may be sure of the triumph of our cause. The grass may grow over our graves before it will be accomplished; but as certain as God reigns, will the dominion of justice and truth be established in the order of society. Every plant which the Heavenly Father has not planted will be plucked up, and the earth will yet rejoice in the greenness and beauty of the garden of God." ~1840's Geo. Ripley Brook Farm http://infomotions.com/etexts/gutenberg/dirs/etext05/brkfm10.htm http://infomotions.com/etexts/gutenberg/dirs/etext05/brkfm10.htm http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yVFa6Wtuxu8 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yVFa6Wtuxu8 Hence by the science, in need is more meditation. By the science in a modern world, need is in more people giving their lives for meditation on behalf of all else. For more martyrs in spirituality, for more meditation jihadis sacrificing their lives for the good of all and in group. By the science, come to meditation. The meditation is the fight against non-meditation. Join with us in meditation. Know this to be that which you are seeking. It is your birthright. Come back to meditation. Jai Adi Shankara, -in FF
[FairfieldLife] Re: Can group meditation bring World Peace? John Hagelin explains
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Hugo richardhughes...@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jpgillam jpgillam@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Hugo richardhughes103@ wrote: the murder rate was left out of the Washington study,ever wonder why since it was a demonstration of reducing crime? Huh? The study investigated violent crime, including homicide: The dependent variable in the research was weekly violent crime, as measured by the Uniform Crime Report program of the Federal Bureau of Investigation; violent crimes include homicide, rape, aggravated assault, and robbery. http://istpp.org/crime_prevention/ The study ignored stats for non-violent crimes, such as purse-snatchings. I suspect purse-snatchings would have been included under robbery, since violence is involved--force is exerted against a person, even if the snatchee isn't physically harmed. Burglary, on the other hand, would not have been included. Maybe that's what you're thinking was omitted. You could be right, but the most important thing is that the crime rate didn't go down. In fact it was up 10-15%. No, it went down. Not sure what you're getting confused here. Maybe both errors are a function of your having read that the murder rate took a sharp spike during one 36-hour period; some reporters and professional skeptics seemed to have taken that to mean that violent crime as a whole rose over the entire period, which wasn't the case. Not even the murder rate went up on average over the eight weeks of the study (although it didn't go down as did the other types of violent crime). In any case, murders account for only around 3% of violent crime in D.C., so the fact that the murder rate didn't go down didn't have a significant effect on the rate of violent crime overall. See here for a detailed rebuttal on this point (skip down to the paragraph that begins Park's objection... right above the first figure): http://www.istpp.org/crime_prevention/voodoo_rebuttal.html http://tinyurl.com/yg464yk And even if it had dropped 20% one study wouldn't be enough to convince anyone. No, but it should have been suggestive enough to inspire attempts at replication to see whether the results held up. It was called The National Demonstration Project, after all. You gotta start somewhere. The IA failure should even out the statistical flukes, if they existed. It's hard to make a case for statistical flukes with the D.C. study. Not only did the crime rate drop during the eight-week project, the decline fluctuated from week to week depending on the attendance numbers at the course (the more participants, the less crime). Which failure are you thinking of, specifically?
[FairfieldLife] Re: Can group meditation bring World Peace? John Hagelin explains
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jst...@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Hugo richardhughes103@ wrote: The study ignored stats for non-violent crimes, such as purse-snatchings. I suspect purse-snatchings would have been included under robbery, since violence is involved--force is exerted against a person, even if the snatchee isn't physically harmed. Burglary, on the other hand, would not have been included. Why? This is what upsets the critics. You can't say it isn't relevant. It's a good solid positive trend indicator and, knowing how the ME is supposed to work, would be indicative of a lesser stress than murder so you'd expect low level stuff like that to disappear instantly. Maybe that's what you're thinking was omitted. You could be right, but the most important thing is that the crime rate didn't go down. In fact it was up 10-15%. No, it went down. Crime overall up 10-15% for the average year but down for 1993 as a whole. Murder rate up. It may be only 3% the total but it's a long way from people waking up and saying I'm not going to kill anyone today - JH. Which is what got me ranting on this in the first place. Not sure what you're getting confused here. Maybe both errors are a function of your having read that the murder rate took a sharp spike during one 36-hour period; some reporters and professional skeptics seemed to have taken that to mean that violent crime as a whole rose over the entire period, which wasn't the case. Not even the murder rate went up on average over the eight weeks of the study (although it didn't go down as did the other types of violent crime). But what explains the dip in HRA rates earlier in the year? It's a fluke unless you can explain the other drops. IMO you have to have done it enough to iron out the fluctuations. In any case, murders account for only around 3% of violent crime in D.C., so the fact that the murder rate didn't go down didn't have a significant effect on the rate of violent crime overall. It's not very convincing though is it? See here for a detailed rebuttal on this point (skip down to the paragraph that begins Park's objection... right above the first figure): http://www.istpp.org/crime_prevention/voodoo_rebuttal.html http://tinyurl.com/yg464yk I've read it and much more. Best bit I found was the offical US govt figures for every city in the US. No noticable drops there. It has eluded my googling for today though, unfortunately. Shame as no-one in their right mind would think anything was amiss in that summer, just the usual ebb and flows. And even if it had dropped 20% one study wouldn't be enough to convince anyone. No, but it should have been suggestive enough to inspire attempts at replication to see whether the results held up. It was called The National Demonstration Project, after all. You gotta start somewhere. But it didn't inspire attempts to replicate it so the TMO tried it themselves with the IA. Success? No. Why am I so sceptical? The TMO claim that the sidhaland in the UK is the at the centre of the lowest metropolitan crime rate in the country. No chance. It has one of the highest burglary rates not to mention highest obesity, suicide, heart attacks, car crime, drug crime etc. All of these are good quality of life indicators so why no mention of them in TM literature. It's things like this (and a few others) that make me suspicious. There was a year long course during the Balkan conflict, the discrepancy between what MMY claimed and what I saw with mine own eyes was amazing. Those who have defeated war he called us. No chance, Nato just ran out of things to drop bombs on. I was there too, and while it's subjectively amazing it wasn't convincing as a demonstration of the ME. So I'll remain happily sceptical until the DC study is replicated or the IA starts producing some positive trend indicators. Like with all amazing claims it's going to take more than the murder rate not going down while some other crimes don't go up as much as you'd expect but no more than they do at some other times to convince me. Funnily enough, the crime rate in DC has gone down loads since the TM study and all due to changes in policing and gentrification of the 'burbs. You know where you are with good policing. With the fuss made about the IA when it started I can't see the ME ever being a political tool, all any government has to say when approached by the TMO about dropping crime rates or improving the economy is I thought you were doing that right now? You have to consider all results not just the ones that show you in a good light. The IA failure should even out the statistical flukes, if they existed. It's hard to make a case for statistical flukes with the D.C. study. Not only did the crime rate drop during the eight-week project, the decline fluctuated from week to week depending on the attendance
[FairfieldLife] Re: Can group meditation bring World Peace? John Hagelin explains
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Hugo richardhughes...@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Hugo richardhughes103@ wrote: The study ignored stats for non-violent crimes, such as purse-snatchings. I suspect purse-snatchings would have been included under robbery, since violence is involved--force is exerted against a person, even if the snatchee isn't physically harmed. Burglary, on the other hand, would not have been included. Why? This is what upsets the critics. Funny, I've read all kinds of objections to the D.C. study, and that was never one of them. You can't say it isn't relevant. It's a good solid positive trend indicator and, knowing how the ME is supposed to work, would be indicative of a lesser stress than murder so you'd expect low level stuff like that to disappear instantly. Could be. But they decided to focus tightly on violent crime, because it should be harder to get rid of it, and because the stats aren't ambiguous. Maybe that's what you're thinking was omitted. You could be right, but the most important thing is that the crime rate didn't go down. In fact it was up 10-15%. No, it went down. Crime overall up 10-15% for the average year but down for 1993 as a whole. All forms of violent crime except murder went down during the eight-week study period compared to the same period in prior years. The study period wasn't compared to earlier (or later) months in the same year because crime has a predictable seasonal variation, whereas the rate for the same period each year is relatively constant. Murder rate up. Murder rate stayed the same on average during the eight-week period. It may be only 3% the total but it's a long way from people waking up and saying I'm not going to kill anyone today - JH. Which is what got me ranting on this in the first place. They weren't happy that the murder rate did not go down. (But it wasn't just one guy on a killing spree, BTW, as you incorrectly said earlier. It was a couple of gang clashes.) But the decline in violent crime overall for that period was pretty impressive. Not sure what you're getting confused here. Maybe both errors are a function of your having read that the murder rate took a sharp spike during one 36-hour period; some reporters and professional skeptics seemed to have taken that to mean that violent crime as a whole rose over the entire period, which wasn't the case. Not even the murder rate went up on average over the eight weeks of the study (although it didn't go down as did the other types of violent crime). But what explains the dip in HRA rates earlier in the year? It's a fluke unless you can explain the other drops. IMO you have to have done it enough to iron out the fluctuations. For all I know, they *can* explain other drops. In any case, murders account for only around 3% of violent crime in D.C., so the fact that the murder rate didn't go down didn't have a significant effect on the rate of violent crime overall. It's not very convincing though is it? As I said, the drop in the rate of violent crime overall was pretty impressive. See here for a detailed rebuttal on this point (skip down to the paragraph that begins Park's objection... right above the first figure): http://www.istpp.org/crime_prevention/voodoo_rebuttal.html http://tinyurl.com/yg464yk I've read it and much more. Er, well, it's hard to understand how you could have made all the errors you did in your previous posts, then. You said one guy went on a killing spree; you said they hadn't included the figures for murder; and you said the violent crime rate had gone up over that period. If you had read what's at the link I gave you, I don't see how you could have made those errors. Best bit I found was the offical US govt figures for every city in the US. No noticable drops there. The study prediction was that violent crime would go down *in D.C.*, where the big course was being held. It has eluded my googling for today though, unfortunately. Shame as no-one in their right mind would think anything was amiss in that summer, just the usual ebb and flows. And even if it had dropped 20% one study wouldn't be enough to convince anyone. No, but it should have been suggestive enough to inspire attempts at replication to see whether the results held up. It was called The National Demonstration Project, after all. You gotta start somewhere. But it didn't inspire attempts to replicate it so the TMO tried it themselves with the IA. Success? No. Oh, you're referring to the Invincible America course just recently. I thought by IA you meant Iowa. Invincible America wasn't a replication of the D.C. study for a lot of reasons, not least *because it wasn't held in D.C.* Nor, as far as I'm aware, were the kind of very specific
[FairfieldLife] Re: Can group meditation bring World Peace? John Hagelin explains
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, dhamiltony2k5 dhamiltony...@... wrote: But, brothers, patience and hope! We know what we are working for, we know that the truth of God is on our side, that he has no attributes that can favor the existing order of fraud, oppression, carnage and consequent wretchedness. We may be sure of the triumph of our cause. The grass may grow over our graves before it will be accomplished; but as certain as God reigns, will the dominion of justice and truth be established in the order of society. Every plant which the Heavenly Father has not planted will be plucked up, and the earth will yet rejoice in the greenness and beauty of the garden of God. ~1840's Geo. Ripley Brook Farm http://infomotions.com/etexts/gutenberg/dirs/etext05/brkfm10.htm http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yVFa6Wtuxu8 Hence by the science, in need is more meditation. By the science in a modern world, need is in more people giving their lives for meditation on behalf of all else. For more martyrs in spirituality, for more meditation jihadis sacrificing their lives for the good of all and in group. By the science, come to meditation. The meditation is the fight against non-meditation. Join with us in meditation. Know this to be that which you are seeking. It is your birthright. Come back to meditation. Jai Adi Shankara, -D in FF
[FairfieldLife] Re: Can group meditation bring World Peace? John Hagelin explains
Absolutely. Jai Adi Shankara, -D in FF --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, raunchydog raunchy...@... wrote: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yVFa6Wtuxu8
[FairfieldLife] Re: Can group meditation bring World Peace? John Hagelin explains
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, dhamiltony2k5 dhamiltony...@... wrote: Absolutely. Jai Adi Shankara, -D in FF --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, raunchydog raunchydog@ wrote: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yVFa6Wtuxu8 John Hagelin - There is such a radiated feeling of peace that people wake up and say: I'm not going to kill anyone today Or, in the case of the guy who went on a killing spree during the Washington study - I'm going to kill *lots* of people today! They are drawing targets around arrows.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Can group meditation bring World Peace? John Hagelin explains
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Hugo richardhughes...@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, dhamiltony2k5 dhamiltony2k5@ wrote: Absolutely. Jai Adi Shankara, -D in FF --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, raunchydog raunchydog@ wrote: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yVFa6Wtuxu8 John Hagelin - There is such a radiated feeling of peace that people wake up and say: I'm not going to kill anyone today Or, in the case of the guy who went on a killing spree during the Washington study - I'm going to kill *lots* of people today! They are drawing targets around arrows. No you hard-hearted fool, are shooting some particular arrows at some targets. Git your meditation checked an sit a while, do it some too, and may be even help. You might even feel better about things according to a lot of the science. Some lot of the science says you might even be of help. Is incredibly compassionate. Are you against that? You live in FF, or are you out in the world? Time for forest academy? My old dad had a comment about old farts,'they can't die fast enough'. Is some practical wisdom in that evidently.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Can group meditation bring World Peace? John Hagelin explains
dhamiltony2k5 wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Hugo richardhughes...@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, dhamiltony2k5 dhamiltony2k5@ wrote: Absolutely. Jai Adi Shankara, -D in FF --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, raunchydog raunchydog@ wrote: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yVFa6Wtuxu8 John Hagelin - There is such a radiated feeling of peace that people wake up and say: I'm not going to kill anyone today Or, in the case of the guy who went on a killing spree during the Washington study - I'm going to kill *lots* of people today! They are drawing targets around arrows. No you hard-hearted fool, are shooting some particular arrows at some targets. Git your meditation checked an sit a while, do it some too, and may be even help. You might even feel better about things according to a lot of the science. Some lot of the science says you might even be of help. Is incredibly compassionate. Are you against that? You live in FF, or are you out in the world? Time for forest academy? My old dad had a comment about old farts,'they can't die fast enough'. Is some practical wisdom in that evidently. I would say that the world still has some hard lessons to learn and the process may not be all that peaceful. Slapping a band-aid on the problem will probably just delay things and result in an even bigger fester.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Can group meditation bring World Peace? John Hagelin explains
But, brothers, patience and hope! We know what we are working for, we know that the truth of God is on our side, that he has no attributes that can favor the existing order of fraud, oppression, carnage and consequent wretchedness. We may be sure of the triumph of our cause. The grass may grow over our graves before it will be accomplished; but as certain as God reigns, will the dominion of justice and truth be established in the order of society. Every plant which the Heavenly Father has not planted will be plucked up, and the earth will yet rejoice in the greenness and beauty of the garden of God. ~1840's Geo. Ripley Brook Farm http://infomotions.com/etexts/gutenberg/dirs/etext05/brkfm10.htm http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yVFa6Wtuxu8
[FairfieldLife] Re: Can group meditation bring World Peace? John Hagelin explains
by a friend of the movement in his eightieth year to his son:-- To many, Brook Farm may have been a dream that ended with the scattering of that little band of workers. That special form of the dream vanished, but the seed was planted, and my confidence in the dream is vivid still. In the past these ideas have been the crude visions of the few, but now they are the absorbing subjects of speculation of the many, and all our best literature is full of them. The highest problems of man and society are the common subjects of discussion. So will it continue to be, by the tiller of the soil, the workman at the bench, as well as the poet and philosopher, until order and harmony are evolved out of this chaos. The good time is surely coming. 'The world,' as Whittier wrote, 'is gray with its dawning light.' J. A. SAXTON. Deerfield, Mass. ~1840's Brook Farm http://infomotions.com/etexts/gutenberg/dirs/etext05/brkfm10.htm http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yVFa6Wtuxu8
