subject:"\[FairfieldLife\] Re\: Japa"

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> 
> On Jul 12, 2006, at 8:10 AM, sparaig wrote:
> 
> >> Always seemed like a blanket term for 'side effects from unbalanced
> >> meditation practice' and of course that could come from many sources.
> >> It would be interesting to know if other groups who practice mental
> >> mantra meditation experience so many negative side effects (e.g.
> >> Himalayan Institute, Sahaja Samadhi/SSRS, etc.).
> >>
> >>
> >
> > The term is "relaxation-induced anxiety" and it is in the DMS-IV as  
> > a possible side-effect
> > of ANY form of relaxation.  The DSM-IV also refers to the "qi-gong  
> > psychotic reaction"
> > BTW.
> 
> 
> Are you implying that TMO usage of the word, unstressing, is meant to  
> refer to "relaxation-induced anxiety" as described in the DSM-IV (or  
> DSM-IV R)?
>

No, that the DSM-IV identifies unstressing and calls it relaxation-induced 
anxiety.

Unstressing comes from ANY form of relaxation, according to MMY. The deeper the 
level 
of rest, the deeper-rooted the stresses that are healed, and the more intense 
the 
corresponding mental activity.

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[FairfieldLife] Re: Japa

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> 
> 
> --- Alex Stanley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote:
> 
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj
> >  wrote:
> > >
> > > 
> > > On Jul 12, 2006, at 7:36 AM, Alex Stanley wrote:
> > > 
> > > > And Waking Down is also not for everyone (in
> > fact, I'd say it's
> > > > not for the vast majority of people). What bugs
> > me, though, is
> > > > that the TM TB has to portray my dropping TM as
> > a case of me
> > > > being weak and unwilling.
> > > 
> > > 
> > > Hey, lets be fair, you could have a dysfunctional
> > thalamus! :-)
> > > 
> > > I'd get an EEG next time you get your oil changed
> > if I were you! :-)))
> > 
> > Waking Down must have fixed it because I can
> > meditate all I want now.
> > Or maybe, just *maybe*, my thalamus had nothing to
> > do with it.
> 
> No, no! There MUST be something wrong with you
> because...because...well, just because!
> 

Whoever said or implied there was something wrong with Alex? I've had periods 
in my life 
where I was afraid to meditate due to the baggage that was welling up. 





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[FairfieldLife] Re: Japa (deepening experience of 'Pure Consciousness'.

2006-07-12 Thread Robert Gimbel

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Patrick Gillam" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
>
> Can't speak to the japa issue. Seems reasonable, 
> though. Other comments interleaved below.
> 
> --- Mark  wrote:
> >
> > Is it possible that the criticism of
> > TM, that it doesn't accomplish anything for 
> > many is because the Being by
> > it's nature doesn't do anything 
> 
> I would agree with this ^, and suggest a wrinkle.
> 
> Consciousness is flat and transparent. Hence, as 
> a rule, we don't notice it. But "Maharishi says" 
> (couldn't resist) pure consciousness is the source 
> and substrate of activity, and the greater one's 
> awareness of consciousness, the more of that 
> life-supporting effect influences our activity. 
> 
> With me so far?
> 
> What I'm getting at is this. If a person doesn't 
> notice anything from TM, is it because 
> consciousness is by nature flat and unnoticeable, 
> or because consciousness is for some reason 
> not enriching that person's activity, or because 
> the whole consciousness-activity link is fallacious? 
> Or what?
> 
> (I suppose one could argue that TM doesn't allow 
> one to experience silent, flat awareness to begin 
> with, too.)
> 
> > but must be enjoined with a relative agent
> > such as a mantra that would give It a relative focus. 
> 
> I thought the TM-Sidhi program was supposed 
> to provide some faint relativity against which to 
> notice consciousness moving. It's the activity in 
> the bathwater that makes one notice the water's 
> warm, so to speak.
>
I have found through the years, of meditating;
That in the beginning, transending does seem brief and 'flat'.
But, with continued practice, it begins to enliven, and take on a 
depth.
This depth continues to increase.
The depth of the experience of pure consciousness, is hard to explain 
in relative terms; because it's really not dependent on anything of a 
relative nature.
In other words it is just your own awareness itself, woken up; and 
you begin to notice a greater depth to it, as your experience of it, 
opens up more and more.
The brain begins to function as a whole; both the left and right 
hemispheres of the brain sychronize.
The thought process begins to take a back seat, to the 'Witnessing'
process;
That is, when the depth of being is held in the awareness 
spontaneously;
That experience in and of itself, is blissful;
Because the mind is quiet and full( whole brain functioning)
And mostly the energy goes to the heart:
Which has become free to observe and to feel the moment;
In all of it's glory...






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[FairfieldLife] Re: Japa

2006-07-12 Thread Robert Gimbel

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "jim_flanegin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>  
> > > 
> > > > 'Unstressing,' to me (if you're seriously asking) is
> > > > a *made up* phrase that doesn't have much to do with
> > > > reality. As we've discussed before, I do not believe
> > > > that 'stress' has anything whatsoever to do with
> > > > preventing the realization of enlightenment.
> > > 
> > > In this, just for the record, you're disagreeing with
> > > yogic theory generally, not just with MMY.  Which is
> > > fine, but it's misleading to suggest that these
> > > concepts are somehow unique to TM.
> > > 
> > >  I think
> > > > that Maharishi coopted the word 'stress' from Hans
> > > > Selye and coined the phrase 'unstressing' because it 
> > > > gave him an easy way to ignore some of the less-than-
> > > > pleasant side effects of TM.
> > > 
> > > Actually, less-than-pleasant side effects is a very
> > > well-known concept in the yogic literature; it's
> > > typically referred to (as MMY sometimes does) as
> > > "purification."
> > > 
> > > MMY borrowed the terms "stress" and "unstressing"
> > > from Selye, certainly, but the point was to put a
> > > more neutral spin on the phenomenon.  "Impurities"
> > > sounds like a value judgment; nobody wants to think
> > > of themselves as "impure," as if there's something
> > > wrong with them.
> > > 
> > > Just as one example of what MMY teaches about "stress"
> > > being found in other yogic contexts, from a page about
> > > Kripalu Yoga:
> > > 
> > > Yoga teaches that our core problem stems from the fact that we 
> have 
> > > forgotten who and what we really are. This avidya, or spiritual 
> > > ignorance, is the most subtle impurity. Convinced that we are 
> > defined 
> > > by our bodies, beliefs, personalities, preferences, 
possessions, 
> > > careers, and nationalities, we live estranged from an authentic 
> > sense 
> > > of self and cut off from a vital spiritual connection. 
> Purification 
> > > consists of vidyathe direct experience of spirit. What yoga 
> calls 
> > > chitta shuddhi or purification of the self-sense, contemporary 
> > > practitioners refer to as spiritual awakening.
> > > 
> > > When the body is sluggish and the world is viewed through a 
> thick 
> > > filter of emotional baggage and mental clutter, it's impossible 
> to 
> > > see reality clearly and respond appropriately. This is why 
> > approaches 
> > > to healing and growth that don't work to purify body and mind 
> prove 
> > > superficial. It's important to know, however, that the kind of 
> > > purification brought on by intensive yoga practice can be a 
> > > challenging proposition. When the pace of purification is 
rapid, 
> it 
> > > can lead to a healing crisis and a temporary reduction in 
> function. 
> > > Common experiences include headaches, nausea, colds, fevers, or 
> > areas 
> > > of soreness that suddenly come and go. As the crisis passes, 
> > vitality 
> > > rises to a new level.
> > > 
> > > The most potent forms of purification are emotional and mental. 
> In 
> > > the phenomena called catharsis, purification can cause powerful 
> > > emotions to surface and break through unconscious barriers to 
> > > feeling. Catharsis can dramatically cleanse an emotional system 
> > that 
> > > has grown congested and dull. Although it leads to greater 
> > > sensitivity and balance, feeling the mental content associated 
> with 
> > > catharsis often pushes you outside comfort zones and beyond 
> > perceived 
> > > limits. Mental purification can similarly lead to insights that 
> > > reconfigure a mind grown cluttered and compartmentalized. 
> Although 
> > > increased clarity and creativity is the result, clearing the 
> mind 
> > > requires bearing the pain of confronting material that has been 
> > > pushed out of conscious awareness, experiencing inner conflict, 
> > > reliving past memories, and acknowledging unseen shortcomings.
> > > 
> > Spot on ! 
> > Who hasn't felt uncomfortable when rounding. But wow, what a 
> > beautiful world that unfolded when we came out. 
> > That's Tapas; it's not always nice, but the effect is marvellous.
> >
> Agreed- really perfectly described.

Just to add something the Eckart Tolle talks about in regard to this 
subject, which he calls the "Pain Body"
He says the 'pain body' is what holds you back from your 
enlightenment.
He claims that the pain body is actually part and parcel the stucture 
of the ego; 'A Course in Miracles' uses the same analogy, that the 
ego, and it's various forms is what blocks the light of Being from 
shining through completely.
Anyway, Eckart seems to think, that the so-called pain body;
Likes to re-enforce itself; with what Maharishi would call 
unstressing.
In other words, when you are feeling over-shadowed by some emotion or 
some overwheming physical symptom, or anything that you feel 
uncomfortable about- that is the perception of your pain body, being 
felt(Maharishi also, used the term "Sleeping Elep

[FairfieldLife] Re: Japa

2006-07-12 Thread jim_flanegin

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "nablus108" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend"  wrote:
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB  
wrote:
> > 
> > > 'Unstressing,' to me (if you're seriously asking) is
> > > a *made up* phrase that doesn't have much to do with
> > > reality. As we've discussed before, I do not believe
> > > that 'stress' has anything whatsoever to do with
> > > preventing the realization of enlightenment.
> > 
> > In this, just for the record, you're disagreeing with
> > yogic theory generally, not just with MMY.  Which is
> > fine, but it's misleading to suggest that these
> > concepts are somehow unique to TM.
> > 
> >  I think
> > > that Maharishi coopted the word 'stress' from Hans
> > > Selye and coined the phrase 'unstressing' because it 
> > > gave him an easy way to ignore some of the less-than-
> > > pleasant side effects of TM.
> > 
> > Actually, less-than-pleasant side effects is a very
> > well-known concept in the yogic literature; it's
> > typically referred to (as MMY sometimes does) as
> > "purification."
> > 
> > MMY borrowed the terms "stress" and "unstressing"
> > from Selye, certainly, but the point was to put a
> > more neutral spin on the phenomenon.  "Impurities"
> > sounds like a value judgment; nobody wants to think
> > of themselves as "impure," as if there's something
> > wrong with them.
> > 
> > Just as one example of what MMY teaches about "stress"
> > being found in other yogic contexts, from a page about
> > Kripalu Yoga:
> > 
> > Yoga teaches that our core problem stems from the fact that we 
have 
> > forgotten who and what we really are. This avidya, or spiritual 
> > ignorance, is the most subtle impurity. Convinced that we are 
> defined 
> > by our bodies, beliefs, personalities, preferences, possessions, 
> > careers, and nationalities, we live estranged from an authentic 
> sense 
> > of self and cut off from a vital spiritual connection. 
Purification 
> > consists of vidyathe direct experience of spirit. What yoga 
calls 
> > chitta shuddhi or purification of the self-sense, contemporary 
> > practitioners refer to as spiritual awakening.
> > 
> > When the body is sluggish and the world is viewed through a 
thick 
> > filter of emotional baggage and mental clutter, it's impossible 
to 
> > see reality clearly and respond appropriately. This is why 
> approaches 
> > to healing and growth that don't work to purify body and mind 
prove 
> > superficial. It's important to know, however, that the kind of 
> > purification brought on by intensive yoga practice can be a 
> > challenging proposition. When the pace of purification is rapid, 
it 
> > can lead to a healing crisis and a temporary reduction in 
function. 
> > Common experiences include headaches, nausea, colds, fevers, or 
> areas 
> > of soreness that suddenly come and go. As the crisis passes, 
> vitality 
> > rises to a new level.
> > 
> > The most potent forms of purification are emotional and mental. 
In 
> > the phenomena called catharsis, purification can cause powerful 
> > emotions to surface and break through unconscious barriers to 
> > feeling. Catharsis can dramatically cleanse an emotional system 
> that 
> > has grown congested and dull. Although it leads to greater 
> > sensitivity and balance, feeling the mental content associated 
with 
> > catharsis often pushes you outside comfort zones and beyond 
> perceived 
> > limits. Mental purification can similarly lead to insights that 
> > reconfigure a mind grown cluttered and compartmentalized. 
Although 
> > increased clarity and creativity is the result, clearing the 
mind 
> > requires bearing the pain of confronting material that has been 
> > pushed out of conscious awareness, experiencing inner conflict, 
> > reliving past memories, and acknowledging unseen shortcomings.
> > 
> Spot on ! 
> Who hasn't felt uncomfortable when rounding. But wow, what a 
> beautiful world that unfolded when we came out. 
> That's Tapas; it's not always nice, but the effect is marvellous.
>
Agreed- really perfectly described.





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[FairfieldLife] Re: Japa

2006-07-12 Thread nablus108

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB  wrote:
> 
> > 'Unstressing,' to me (if you're seriously asking) is
> > a *made up* phrase that doesn't have much to do with
> > reality. As we've discussed before, I do not believe
> > that 'stress' has anything whatsoever to do with
> > preventing the realization of enlightenment.
> 
> In this, just for the record, you're disagreeing with
> yogic theory generally, not just with MMY.  Which is
> fine, but it's misleading to suggest that these
> concepts are somehow unique to TM.
> 
>  I think
> > that Maharishi coopted the word 'stress' from Hans
> > Selye and coined the phrase 'unstressing' because it 
> > gave him an easy way to ignore some of the less-than-
> > pleasant side effects of TM.
> 
> Actually, less-than-pleasant side effects is a very
> well-known concept in the yogic literature; it's
> typically referred to (as MMY sometimes does) as
> "purification."
> 
> MMY borrowed the terms "stress" and "unstressing"
> from Selye, certainly, but the point was to put a
> more neutral spin on the phenomenon.  "Impurities"
> sounds like a value judgment; nobody wants to think
> of themselves as "impure," as if there's something
> wrong with them.
> 
> Just as one example of what MMY teaches about "stress"
> being found in other yogic contexts, from a page about
> Kripalu Yoga:
> 
> Yoga teaches that our core problem stems from the fact that we have 
> forgotten who and what we really are. This avidya, or spiritual 
> ignorance, is the most subtle impurity. Convinced that we are 
defined 
> by our bodies, beliefs, personalities, preferences, possessions, 
> careers, and nationalities, we live estranged from an authentic 
sense 
> of self and cut off from a vital spiritual connection. Purification 
> consists of vidyathe direct experience of spirit. What yoga calls 
> chitta shuddhi or purification of the self-sense, contemporary 
> practitioners refer to as spiritual awakening.
> 
> When the body is sluggish and the world is viewed through a thick 
> filter of emotional baggage and mental clutter, it's impossible to 
> see reality clearly and respond appropriately. This is why 
approaches 
> to healing and growth that don't work to purify body and mind prove 
> superficial. It's important to know, however, that the kind of 
> purification brought on by intensive yoga practice can be a 
> challenging proposition. When the pace of purification is rapid, it 
> can lead to a healing crisis and a temporary reduction in function. 
> Common experiences include headaches, nausea, colds, fevers, or 
areas 
> of soreness that suddenly come and go. As the crisis passes, 
vitality 
> rises to a new level.
> 
> The most potent forms of purification are emotional and mental. In 
> the phenomena called catharsis, purification can cause powerful 
> emotions to surface and break through unconscious barriers to 
> feeling. Catharsis can dramatically cleanse an emotional system 
that 
> has grown congested and dull. Although it leads to greater 
> sensitivity and balance, feeling the mental content associated with 
> catharsis often pushes you outside comfort zones and beyond 
perceived 
> limits. Mental purification can similarly lead to insights that 
> reconfigure a mind grown cluttered and compartmentalized. Although 
> increased clarity and creativity is the result, clearing the mind 
> requires bearing the pain of confronting material that has been 
> pushed out of conscious awareness, experiencing inner conflict, 
> reliving past memories, and acknowledging unseen shortcomings.
> 
Spot on ! 
Who hasn't felt uncomfortable when rounding. But wow, what a 
beautiful world that unfolded when we came out. 
That's Tapas; it's not always nice, but the effect is marvellous.







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[FairfieldLife] Re: Japa

2006-07-12 Thread nablus108

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> 
> On Jul 12, 2006, at 7:36 AM, Alex Stanley wrote:
> 
> > And Waking Down is also not for everyone (in fact, I'd say it's not
> > for the vast majority of people). What bugs me, though, is that the 
TM
> > TB has to portray my dropping TM as a case of me being weak and
> > unwilling.
> 
> 
Many people are simply not made for doing TM. Also on Purusha this was 
evident. After Boppard Maharishi commented: "The could not sit, so they 
had to run". He saw that 3 levels of Purusha was necessary: One to be 
devoted to silence (I guess the boys that now are in the Himalayas), 
one to be active on projects, and one group somehow in the middle, 
coordinating operations.






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[FairfieldLife] Re: Japa

2006-07-12 Thread authfriend

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Alex Stanley" 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend"  wrote:
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Alex Stanley" 
> >  wrote:
> > 
> > > I'd sit down to meditate and my mind wouldn't settle down. It
> > > was outwardly focused and could no longer tolerate the escapism 
> > > of transcending. I'd always looked at TM as a means of fixing 
> > > what I felt was broken, and as such, TM was for me just another 
> > > piece of the toxic ego dynamic of grasping and aversion, 
> > > preventing me from being present in the here and now. 
> > 
> > You know, Alex, this doesn't even *sound* like you
> > talking.  It sounds artificial and rote and self-
> > conscious.
> 
> The terminology of egoic grasping and aversion came from an 
> Adyashanti essay I read. But, it perfectly describes what was going 
> on inside me.

> "Being present in the here and now" is definitely a new age 
> platitude, but it perfectly describes the sense of free-flaoting in 
> now that I experience as a result of my Waking Down brand Second 
> Birth Awakening. Escapism of transcending is my own wording.
> 
> To flesh my story out a bit, my big issue was not accepting myself 
> as I am. I seriously believed TM would make me str8. After all, if
> homosexuality is such an egregious violation of Natural Law, as I 
> was led to believe from ideas floating around the TM community, 
> then TM should be able to fix that. So, in that context, TM was 
> feeding my aversion dynamic. I dropped TM because it was, for me, a 
> spiritual mismatch, and I'd reached the point where every fiber of 
> my being was making that clear.

Um, OK.  I'm truly astonished you ever allowed
yourself to be led to believe such a thing.

My own experience with some of the nutty social
ideas floating around the TMO was that at first
I had a tendency to give them some credence, at
least to wonder whether they *might* be correct.

But the longer I was meditating, the clearer it
became to me that there was zero need for me to
change my thinking to accord with those ideas.

I see absolutely no problem with both doing my
program and disagreeing strenuously with some
of MMY's notions of proper behavior.  I'll happily
go along with his "Don't do what you think might
be wrong" and leave it at that--*I'm* the one who
gets to do that thinking and make those judgments.

As I've said before, as far as I'm concerned MMY
has the Indian sign, as it were, on the nature
and mechanics of consciousness.  Anything else
is up for grabs.  He isn't someone I look to for
advice about how to live my life.

As far as your "escapism of transcending" is 
concerned, my own experience is that regular
transcending facilitates my ability to *avoid*
escapism when it comes to what is going on in my
life and strengthens my ability to deal with it
head-on.

YMMV.

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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Japa

2006-07-12 Thread Peter



--- Alex Stanley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:

> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > 
> > On Jul 12, 2006, at 7:36 AM, Alex Stanley wrote:
> > 
> > > And Waking Down is also not for everyone (in
> fact, I'd say it's
> > > not for the vast majority of people). What bugs
> me, though, is
> > > that the TM TB has to portray my dropping TM as
> a case of me
> > > being weak and unwilling.
> > 
> > 
> > Hey, lets be fair, you could have a dysfunctional
> thalamus! :-)
> > 
> > I'd get an EEG next time you get your oil changed
> if I were you! :-)))
> 
> Waking Down must have fixed it because I can
> meditate all I want now.
> Or maybe, just *maybe*, my thalamus had nothing to
> do with it.

No, no! There MUST be something wrong with you
because...because...well, just because!



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> 
> 
> 
> 


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[FairfieldLife] Re: Japa

2006-07-12 Thread Alex Stanley

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> 
> On Jul 12, 2006, at 7:36 AM, Alex Stanley wrote:
> 
> > And Waking Down is also not for everyone (in fact, I'd say it's
> > not for the vast majority of people). What bugs me, though, is
> > that the TM TB has to portray my dropping TM as a case of me
> > being weak and unwilling.
> 
> 
> Hey, lets be fair, you could have a dysfunctional thalamus! :-)
> 
> I'd get an EEG next time you get your oil changed if I were you! :-)))

Waking Down must have fixed it because I can meditate all I want now.
Or maybe, just *maybe*, my thalamus had nothing to do with it.

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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Japa



On Jul 12, 2006, at 8:10 AM, sparaig wrote:Always seemed like a blanket term for 'side effects from unbalanced   meditation practice' and of course that could come from many sources.   It would be interesting to know if other groups who practice mental   mantra meditation experience so many negative side effects (e.g.   Himalayan Institute, Sahaja Samadhi/SSRS, etc.).   The term is "relaxation-induced anxiety" and it is in the DMS-IV as a possible side-effect  of ANY form of relaxation.  The DSM-IV also refers to the "qi-gong psychotic reaction"  BTW.  Are you implying that TMO usage of the word, unstressing, is meant to refer to "relaxation-induced anxiety" as described in the DSM-IV (or DSM-IV R)?
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[FairfieldLife] Re: Japa

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> 
> On Jul 12, 2006, at 3:49 AM, TurquoiseB wrote:
> 
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig"  wrote:
> >
> >> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB  wrote:
> >>
> >>> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Alex Stanley"
> >>>  wrote:
> >>>
>  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig"  wrote:
> 
> >
> > Contrariwise, that Alex ran into a major bout of unstressing he
> > couldn't handle.
> >
> 
>  If it makes you feel better to believe that, be my guest.
> 
> >>>
> >>> That's exactly the kind of response these people
> >>> can never 'get,' and likely will never 'get' for
> >>> the duration of their present incarnation. They're
> >>> locked into preserving their self-image of small
> >>> self, and as far as I can tell, will be locked into
> >>> it until the small self dissolves into the Bardo,
> >>> and for several incarnations past that point. They
> >>> just don't 'get' not having an ego to defend.
> >>>
> >>
> >> So, unstressing for you isn't a catch-all phrase?
> >>
> >
> > I'm not sure what your point is.
> >
> > 'Unstressing,' to me (if you're seriously asking) is
> > a *made up* phrase that doesn't have much to do with
> > reality. As we've discussed before, I do not believe
> > that 'stress' has anything whatsoever to do with
> > preventing the realization of enlightenment. I think
> > that Maharishi coopted the word 'stress' from Hans
> > Selye and coined the phrase 'unstressing' because it
> > gave him an easy way to ignore some of the less-than-
> > pleasant side effects of TM.
> >
> > I'm not suggesting that you have to believe this,
> > but it's what I believe.
> 
> Always seemed like a blanket term for 'side effects from unbalanced  
> meditation practice' and of course that could come from many sources.  
> It would be interesting to know if other groups who practice mental  
> mantra meditation experience so many negative side effects (e.g.  
> Himalayan Institute, Sahaja Samadhi/SSRS, etc.).
>

The term is "relaxation-induced anxiety" and it is in the DMS-IV as a possible 
side-effect 
of ANY form of relaxation.  The DSM-IV also refers to the "qi-gong psychotic 
reaction" 
BTW. 






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[FairfieldLife] Re: Japa

2006-07-12 Thread Alex Stanley

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Alex Stanley" 
>  wrote:
> 
> > I'd sit down to meditate and my mind wouldn't settle down. It was
> > outwardly focused and could no longer tolerate the escapism of
> > transcending. I'd always looked at TM as a means of fixing what I
> > felt was broken, and as such, TM was for me just another piece of 
> > the toxic ego dynamic of grasping and aversion, preventing me from 
> > being present in the here and now. 
> 
> You know, Alex, this doesn't even *sound* like you
> talking.  It sounds artificial and rote and self-
> conscious.

The terminology of egoic grasping and aversion came from an Adyashanti
essay I read. But, it perfectly describes what was going on inside me.
"Being present in the here and now" is definitely a new age platitude,
but it perfectly describes the sense of free-flaoting in now that I
experience as a result of my Waking Down brand Second Birth Awakening.
Escapism of transcending is my own wording.

To flesh my story out a bit, my big issue was not accepting myself as
I am. I seriously believed TM would make me str8. After all, if
homosexuality is such an egregious violation of Natural Law, as I was
led to believe from ideas floating around the TM community, then TM
should be able to fix that. So, in that context, TM was feeding my
aversion dynamic. I dropped TM because it was, for me, a spiritual
mismatch, and I'd reached the point where every fiber of my being was
making that clear.

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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Japa



On Jul 12, 2006, at 7:36 AM, Alex Stanley wrote:And Waking Down is also not for everyone (in fact, I'd say it's notfor the vast majority of people). What bugs me, though, is that the TMTB has to portray my dropping TM as a case of me being weak andunwilling. Hey, lets be fair, you could have a dysfunctional thalamus! :-)I'd get an EEG next time you get your oil changed if I were you! :-)))
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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Japa



On Jul 12, 2006, at 7:36 AM, Alex Stanley wrote:And Waking Down is also not for everyone (in fact, I'd say it's not for the vast majority of people). What bugs me, though, is that the TM TB has to portray my dropping TM as a case of me being weak and unwilling. Hey, lets be fair, you could have a dysfunctional thalamus! :-)I'd get an EEG next time you get your oil changed if I were you! :-)))
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[FairfieldLife] Re: Japa

2006-07-12 Thread authfriend

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> 'Unstressing,' to me (if you're seriously asking) is
> a *made up* phrase that doesn't have much to do with
> reality. As we've discussed before, I do not believe
> that 'stress' has anything whatsoever to do with
> preventing the realization of enlightenment.

In this, just for the record, you're disagreeing with
yogic theory generally, not just with MMY.  Which is
fine, but it's misleading to suggest that these
concepts are somehow unique to TM.

 I think
> that Maharishi coopted the word 'stress' from Hans
> Selye and coined the phrase 'unstressing' because it 
> gave him an easy way to ignore some of the less-than-
> pleasant side effects of TM.

Actually, less-than-pleasant side effects is a very
well-known concept in the yogic literature; it's
typically referred to (as MMY sometimes does) as
"purification."

MMY borrowed the terms "stress" and "unstressing"
from Selye, certainly, but the point was to put a
more neutral spin on the phenomenon.  "Impurities"
sounds like a value judgment; nobody wants to think
of themselves as "impure," as if there's something
wrong with them.

Just as one example of what MMY teaches about "stress"
being found in other yogic contexts, from a page about
Kripalu Yoga:

Yoga teaches that our core problem stems from the fact that we have 
forgotten who and what we really are. This avidya, or spiritual 
ignorance, is the most subtle impurity. Convinced that we are defined 
by our bodies, beliefs, personalities, preferences, possessions, 
careers, and nationalities, we live estranged from an authentic sense 
of self and cut off from a vital spiritual connection. Purification 
consists of vidyathe direct experience of spirit. What yoga calls 
chitta shuddhi or purification of the self-sense, contemporary 
practitioners refer to as spiritual awakening.

When the body is sluggish and the world is viewed through a thick 
filter of emotional baggage and mental clutter, it's impossible to 
see reality clearly and respond appropriately. This is why approaches 
to healing and growth that don't work to purify body and mind prove 
superficial. It's important to know, however, that the kind of 
purification brought on by intensive yoga practice can be a 
challenging proposition. When the pace of purification is rapid, it 
can lead to a healing crisis and a temporary reduction in function. 
Common experiences include headaches, nausea, colds, fevers, or areas 
of soreness that suddenly come and go. As the crisis passes, vitality 
rises to a new level.

The most potent forms of purification are emotional and mental. In 
the phenomena called catharsis, purification can cause powerful 
emotions to surface and break through unconscious barriers to 
feeling. Catharsis can dramatically cleanse an emotional system that 
has grown congested and dull. Although it leads to greater 
sensitivity and balance, feeling the mental content associated with 
catharsis often pushes you outside comfort zones and beyond perceived 
limits. Mental purification can similarly lead to insights that 
reconfigure a mind grown cluttered and compartmentalized. Although 
increased clarity and creativity is the result, clearing the mind 
requires bearing the pain of confronting material that has been 
pushed out of conscious awareness, experiencing inner conflict, 
reliving past memories, and acknowledging unseen shortcomings.

http://www.kripalu.org/kyta_artcl.php?id=207

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[FairfieldLife] Re: Japa

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig"  wrote:
> >
> > Well gee. TM probably doesn't work with people who have 
> > dysfunctional thalamuses.
> 
> I have nothing to contribute to this discussion. I just
> had to comment that the word 'thalamus' is one of those
> words that probably was never intended to be used in 
> the plural. 'Thalamuses' sounds really silly.  :-)
>

Sorry. Have thalalumi on the brain right now. The first part of the samadhi 
animation is to 
show the generic high-level brain activity during a visual stimulation. The 
lateral 
geninulate nucleus of the thalamus is the main gateway into the rest of the 
brain for visual 
input so I've been reading a jillion articles and websites the past few days. 
LGNs? LGNs? We 
don't need no stinkin' LGNs.

As to what this has to do with samadhi? Recall that meditation is sometimes 
described as 
withdrawing of the senses like a turtle draws its legs into its shell. The 
thalmus is the 
gateway for all the senses except smell. If a meditation technique somehow 
lowered the 
overall activity of the thalamus, this would result in "withdrawal of the 
senses."

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On Jul 12, 2006, at 6:50 AM, TurquoiseB wrote:What is YOUR explation for the "less-than-pleasant sdie effects of TM?" A technique that was cobbled together from several other existing techniques and given to guinea pigs (us) to test. As opposed to a technique or techniques that have been taught the same way and the effects noted and documented for centuries.Indeed. There are several prerequisites that are supposed to occur *before* mantra diksha. One is correct posture, the other is pranayama and correct breathing.In this sense Panditiji Sri Sri Ravi Shankar has restored the purity of the tradition by placing pranayama and purification before mantra initiation. Maybe that's why he has so much more support of nature. ;-))) Again, I'm not suggesting that you believe this, but I tend to. My belief is based on seeing a fair number of TMers who complained about "heavy unstressing" for years learn a different style of meditation, one with more tradition behind it, and have all of the things they considered "unstressing" go away completely within a couple of days, never to reappear.Yes, I've noticed the same thing. This while their subjective experience both of transcendence during meditation and benefits after meditation increased. I'm not trying to argue with you here, BTW. I'm just trying to explain where I'm coming from whenever the issue of "unstressing" comes up. I rejected the "stress prevents enlightenment" theory a couple of decades ago, so I really don't hold many of the core assumptions that a person who believes the TM explanation does. This would probably be high on the list of TM Fundamentalist beliefs.
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[FairfieldLife] Re: Japa

2006-07-12 Thread Alex Stanley

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> 
> 
> --- Alex Stanley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote:
> 
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig"
> >  wrote:
> > >
> > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend"
> >  wrote:
> > > >
> > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Alex
> > Stanley" 
> > > >  wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,
> > "sparaig"  wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Alex
> > Stanley"
> > > > >  wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,
> > "sparaig"  
> > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Contrariwise, that Alex ran into a major
> > bout of unstressing 
> > > > he
> > > > > > > > couldn't handle.
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > If it makes you feel better to believe
> > that, be my guest.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > Do you think it isn't the case?
> > > > >  
> > > > > Unstressing had nothing to with it. I know you
> > can't help but try to
> > > > > pigeonhole my experience into your cultishly
> > held TM worldview
> > > > 
> > > > Oh, for chrissake, Alex.  It's a perfectly
> > reasonable
> > > > question given your initial "would no longer
> > tolerate"
> > > > explanation for why you stopped.
> > > >
> > > 
> > > Still is a reasonable explanation, IMHO.
> > Basically, he's said: 
> > > I couldnt' stand looking within any more. What
> > explanation for
> > > that save "unstressing?"
> > 
> > LOL!!! Actually, 2+ years of Waking Down gave me way
> > deeper and way
> > more looking within than anything I ever experienced
> > with TM.
> 
> Even SSRS says that his Sudarshan Kriya may not be for
> everyone. Not a lot of people, but there could be
> some.

And Waking Down is also not for everyone (in fact, I'd say it's not
for the vast majority of people). What bugs me, though, is that the TM
TB has to portray my dropping TM as a case of me being weak and
unwilling. The TM cultist mindset can't deal with the fact that for
some people, TM isn't the Universal Bestest Solution to Everything. TM
served me well until it didn't. There was no weakness or unwillingness
on my part; I'd simply reached a point where I required a different
source of spiritual nourishment. 






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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Japa

On Jul 12, 2006, at 3:49 AM, TurquoiseB wrote:--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Alex Stanley" wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" wrote: Contrariwise, that Alex ran into a major bout of unstressing he couldn't handle. If it makes you feel better to believe that, be my guest. That's exactly the kind of response these people can never 'get,' and likely will never 'get' for the duration of their present incarnation. They're locked into preserving their self-image of small self, and as far as I can tell, will be locked into it until the small self dissolves into the Bardo, and for several incarnations past that point. They just don't 'get' not having an ego to defend. So, unstressing for you isn't a catch-all phrase? I'm not sure what your point is. 'Unstressing,' to me (if you're seriously asking) is a *made up* phrase that doesn't have much to do with reality. As we've discussed before, I do not believe that 'stress' has anything whatsoever to do with preventing the realization of enlightenment. I think that Maharishi coopted the word 'stress' from Hans Selye and coined the phrase 'unstressing' because it gave him an easy way to ignore some of the less-than- pleasant side effects of TM. I'm not suggesting that you have to believe this, but it's what I believe. Always seemed like a blanket term for 'side effects from unbalanced meditation practice' and of course that could come from many sources. It would be interesting to know if other groups who practice mental mantra meditation experience so many negative side effects (e.g. Himalayan Institute, Sahaja Samadhi/SSRS, etc.).
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[FairfieldLife] Re: Japa

2006-07-12 Thread TurquoiseB

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Well gee. TM probably doesn't work with people who have 
> dysfunctional thalamuses.

I have nothing to contribute to this discussion. I just
had to comment that the word 'thalamus' is one of those
words that probably was never intended to be used in 
the plural. 'Thalamuses' sounds really silly.  :-)

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[FairfieldLife] Re: Japa

2006-07-12 Thread TurquoiseB

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB  wrote:
> >
> > 'Unstressing,' to me (if you're seriously asking) is
> > a *made up* phrase that doesn't have much to do with
> > reality. As we've discussed before, I do not believe
> > that 'stress' has anything whatsoever to do with
> > preventing the realization of enlightenment. I think
> > that Maharishi coopted the word 'stress' from Hans
> > Selye and coined the phrase 'unstressing' because it 
> > gave him an easy way to ignore some of the less-than-
> > pleasant side effects of TM.
> > 
> > I'm not suggesting that you have to believe this,
> > but it's what I believe.
> 
> Your history is certainly correct, but the conclusion is 
> debateable.  

Sure.

> What is YOUR explation for the "less-than-pleasant sdie 
> effects of TM?"

A technique that was cobbled together from several 
other existing techniques and given to guinea pigs 
(us) to test. As opposed to a technique or techniques 
that have been taught the same way and the effects 
noted and documented for centuries.

Again, I'm not suggesting that you believe this, but
I tend to. My belief is based on seeing a fair number
of TMers who complained about "heavy unstressing" for
years learn a different style of meditation, one with
more tradition behind it, and have all of the things
they considered "unstressing" go away completely within
a couple of days, never to reappear. This while their
subjective experience both of transcendence during
meditation and benefits after meditation increased.

I'm not trying to argue with you here, BTW. I'm just
trying to explain where I'm coming from whenever the
issue of "unstressing" comes up. I rejected the 
"stress prevents enlightenment" theory a couple of
decades ago, so I really don't hold many of the
core assumptions that a person who believes the TM
explanation does.

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[FairfieldLife] Re: Japa

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig"  wrote:
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB  wrote:
> > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Alex Stanley"
> > >  wrote:
> > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig"  wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Contrariwise, that Alex ran into a major bout of unstressing he
> > > > > couldn't handle.
> > > > 
> > > > If it makes you feel better to believe that, be my guest.
> > > 
> > > That's exactly the kind of response these people
> > > can never 'get,' and likely will never 'get' for
> > > the duration of their present incarnation. They're
> > > locked into preserving their self-image of small
> > > self, and as far as I can tell, will be locked into
> > > it until the small self dissolves into the Bardo,
> > > and for several incarnations past that point. They
> > > just don't 'get' not having an ego to defend.
> > 
> > So, unstressing for you isn't a catch-all phrase?
> 
> I'm not sure what your point is.
> 
> 'Unstressing,' to me (if you're seriously asking) is
> a *made up* phrase that doesn't have much to do with
> reality. As we've discussed before, I do not believe
> that 'stress' has anything whatsoever to do with
> preventing the realization of enlightenment. I think
> that Maharishi coopted the word 'stress' from Hans
> Selye and coined the phrase 'unstressing' because it 
> gave him an easy way to ignore some of the less-than-
> pleasant side effects of TM.
> 
> I'm not suggesting that you have to believe this,
> but it's what I believe.
>

Your history is certainly correct, but the conclusion is debateable.  What is 
YOUR explation 
for the "less-than-pleasant sdie effects of TM?"





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[FairfieldLife] Re: Japa

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> 
> 
> --- Alex Stanley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote:
> 
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig"
> >  wrote:
> > >
> > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend"
> >  wrote:
> > > >
> > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Alex
> > Stanley" 
> > > >  wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,
> > "sparaig"  wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Alex
> > Stanley"
> > > > >  wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,
> > "sparaig"  
> > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Contrariwise, that Alex ran into a major
> > bout of unstressing 
> > > > he
> > > > > > > > couldn't handle.
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > If it makes you feel better to believe
> > that, be my guest.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > Do you think it isn't the case?
> > > > >  
> > > > > Unstressing had nothing to with it. I know you
> > can't help but try to
> > > > > pigeonhole my experience into your cultishly
> > held TM worldview
> > > > 
> > > > Oh, for chrissake, Alex.  It's a perfectly
> > reasonable
> > > > question given your initial "would no longer
> > tolerate"
> > > > explanation for why you stopped.
> > > >
> > > 
> > > Still is a reasonable explanation, IMHO.
> > Basically, he's said: 
> > > I couldnt' stand looking within any more. What
> > explanation for
> > > that save "unstressing?"
> > 
> > LOL!!! Actually, 2+ years of Waking Down gave me way
> > deeper and way
> > more looking within than anything I ever experienced
> > with TM.
> 
> Even SSRS says that his Sudarshan Kriya may not be for
> everyone. Not a lot of people, but there could be
> some.


Well gee. TM probably doesn't work with people who have dysfunctional 
thalamuses.






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[FairfieldLife] Re: Japa

2006-07-12 Thread TurquoiseB

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB  wrote:
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Alex Stanley"
> >  wrote:
> > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig"  wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Contrariwise, that Alex ran into a major bout of unstressing he
> > > > couldn't handle.
> > > 
> > > If it makes you feel better to believe that, be my guest.
> > 
> > That's exactly the kind of response these people
> > can never 'get,' and likely will never 'get' for
> > the duration of their present incarnation. They're
> > locked into preserving their self-image of small
> > self, and as far as I can tell, will be locked into
> > it until the small self dissolves into the Bardo,
> > and for several incarnations past that point. They
> > just don't 'get' not having an ego to defend.
> 
> So, unstressing for you isn't a catch-all phrase?

I'm not sure what your point is.

'Unstressing,' to me (if you're seriously asking) is
a *made up* phrase that doesn't have much to do with
reality. As we've discussed before, I do not believe
that 'stress' has anything whatsoever to do with
preventing the realization of enlightenment. I think
that Maharishi coopted the word 'stress' from Hans
Selye and coined the phrase 'unstressing' because it 
gave him an easy way to ignore some of the less-than-
pleasant side effects of TM.

I'm not suggesting that you have to believe this,
but it's what I believe. 

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[FairfieldLife] Re: Japa

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend"  wrote:
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig"  wrote:
> > >
> > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB  
> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Alex Stanley"
> > > >  wrote:
> > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig"  
> > wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Contrariwise, that Alex ran into a major bout of 
> unstressing 
> > he
> > > > > > couldn't handle.
> > > > > 
> > > > > If it makes you feel better to believe that, be my guest.
> > > > 
> > > > That's exactly the kind of response these people
> > > > can never 'get,' and likely will never 'get' for
> > > > the duration of their present incarnation. They're
> > > > locked into preserving their self-image of small
> > > > self, and as far as I can tell, will be locked into
> > > > it until the small self dissolves into the Bardo,
> > > > and for several incarnations past that point. They
> > > > just don't 'get' not having an ego to defend.
> > > 
> > > So, unstressing for you isn't a catch-all phrase?
> > 
> > This bozo is deeply, deeply terrified of *something*.
> 
> (Not you, Lawson, Barry.)
>

I know, but the observation applies to just about everyone--with some people 
its more 
obvious than others, I'll grant you...







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[FairfieldLife] Re: Japa

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Alex Stanley" 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> I'd sit down to meditate and my mind wouldn't settle down. It was
> outwardly focused and could no longer tolerate the escapism of
> transcending. I'd always looked at TM as a means of fixing what I
> felt was broken, and as such, TM was for me just another piece of 
> the toxic ego dynamic of grasping and aversion, preventing me from 
> being present in the here and now. 

You know, Alex, this doesn't even *sound* like you
talking.  It sounds artificial and rote and self-
conscious.

> However, TM never fixed what I wanted fixed, and I finally came to
> the end of the TM road. The right path for me ended up being one 
> where instead of tiptoeing around sleeping elephants, one goes 
> right up to the sleeping elephants and slaps them on the ass.

This does sound like you, though.  Where the heck
did that first paragraph come from?

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[FairfieldLife] Re: Japa

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig"  wrote:
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB  wrote:
> > >
> > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Alex Stanley"
> > >  wrote:
> > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig"  
> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Contrariwise, that Alex ran into a major bout of unstressing 
> he
> > > > > couldn't handle.
> > > > 
> > > > If it makes you feel better to believe that, be my guest.
> > > 
> > > That's exactly the kind of response these people
> > > can never 'get,' and likely will never 'get' for
> > > the duration of their present incarnation. They're
> > > locked into preserving their self-image of small
> > > self, and as far as I can tell, will be locked into
> > > it until the small self dissolves into the Bardo,
> > > and for several incarnations past that point. They
> > > just don't 'get' not having an ego to defend.
> > 
> > So, unstressing for you isn't a catch-all phrase?
> 
> This bozo is deeply, deeply terrified of *something*.
>

Aren't we all?







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[FairfieldLife] Re: Japa

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Alex Stanley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig"  wrote:
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend"  wrote:
> > >
> > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Alex Stanley" 
> > >  wrote:
> > > >
> > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig"  wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Alex Stanley"
> > > >  wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig"  
> > > wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Contrariwise, that Alex ran into a major bout of unstressing 
> > > he
> > > > > > > couldn't handle.
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > If it makes you feel better to believe that, be my guest.
> > > > > >
> > > > > 
> > > > > Do you think it isn't the case?
> > > >  
> > > > Unstressing had nothing to with it. I know you can't help but try to
> > > > pigeonhole my experience into your cultishly held TM worldview
> > > 
> > > Oh, for chrissake, Alex.  It's a perfectly reasonable
> > > question given your initial "would no longer tolerate"
> > > explanation for why you stopped.
> > >
> > 
> > Still is a reasonable explanation, IMHO. Basically, he's said: 
> > I couldnt' stand looking within any more. What explanation for
> > that save "unstressing?"
> 
> LOL!!! Actually, 2+ years of Waking Down gave me way deeper and way
> more looking within than anything I ever experienced with TM.
>

That might be. Doesn't change my point terribly, however.





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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Japa

2006-07-11 Thread Peter



--- Alex Stanley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:

> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig"
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend"
>  wrote:
> > >
> > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Alex
> Stanley" 
> > >  wrote:
> > > >
> > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,
> "sparaig"  wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Alex
> Stanley"
> > > >  wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,
> "sparaig"  
> > > wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Contrariwise, that Alex ran into a major
> bout of unstressing 
> > > he
> > > > > > > couldn't handle.
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > If it makes you feel better to believe
> that, be my guest.
> > > > > >
> > > > > 
> > > > > Do you think it isn't the case?
> > > >  
> > > > Unstressing had nothing to with it. I know you
> can't help but try to
> > > > pigeonhole my experience into your cultishly
> held TM worldview
> > > 
> > > Oh, for chrissake, Alex.  It's a perfectly
> reasonable
> > > question given your initial "would no longer
> tolerate"
> > > explanation for why you stopped.
> > >
> > 
> > Still is a reasonable explanation, IMHO.
> Basically, he's said: 
> > I couldnt' stand looking within any more. What
> explanation for
> > that save "unstressing?"
> 
> LOL!!! Actually, 2+ years of Waking Down gave me way
> deeper and way
> more looking within than anything I ever experienced
> with TM.

Even SSRS says that his Sudarshan Kriya may not be for
everyone. Not a lot of people, but there could be
some.

 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> 


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[FairfieldLife] Re: Japa

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig"  wrote:
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB  
wrote:
> > >
> > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Alex Stanley"
> > >  wrote:
> > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig"  
> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Contrariwise, that Alex ran into a major bout of 
unstressing 
> he
> > > > > couldn't handle.
> > > > 
> > > > If it makes you feel better to believe that, be my guest.
> > > 
> > > That's exactly the kind of response these people
> > > can never 'get,' and likely will never 'get' for
> > > the duration of their present incarnation. They're
> > > locked into preserving their self-image of small
> > > self, and as far as I can tell, will be locked into
> > > it until the small self dissolves into the Bardo,
> > > and for several incarnations past that point. They
> > > just don't 'get' not having an ego to defend.
> > 
> > So, unstressing for you isn't a catch-all phrase?
> 
> This bozo is deeply, deeply terrified of *something*.

(Not you, Lawson, Barry.)







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[FairfieldLife] Re: Japa

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB  wrote:
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Alex Stanley"
> >  wrote:
> > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig"  
wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Contrariwise, that Alex ran into a major bout of unstressing 
he
> > > > couldn't handle.
> > > 
> > > If it makes you feel better to believe that, be my guest.
> > 
> > That's exactly the kind of response these people
> > can never 'get,' and likely will never 'get' for
> > the duration of their present incarnation. They're
> > locked into preserving their self-image of small
> > self, and as far as I can tell, will be locked into
> > it until the small self dissolves into the Bardo,
> > and for several incarnations past that point. They
> > just don't 'get' not having an ego to defend.
> 
> So, unstressing for you isn't a catch-all phrase?

This bozo is deeply, deeply terrified of *something*.







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[FairfieldLife] Re: Japa

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend"  wrote:
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Alex Stanley" 
> >  wrote:
> > >
> > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig"  wrote:
> > > >
> > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Alex Stanley"
> > >  wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig"  
> > wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Contrariwise, that Alex ran into a major bout of unstressing 
> > he
> > > > > > couldn't handle.
> > > > > 
> > > > > If it makes you feel better to believe that, be my guest.
> > > > >
> > > > 
> > > > Do you think it isn't the case?
> > >  
> > > Unstressing had nothing to with it. I know you can't help but try to
> > > pigeonhole my experience into your cultishly held TM worldview
> > 
> > Oh, for chrissake, Alex.  It's a perfectly reasonable
> > question given your initial "would no longer tolerate"
> > explanation for why you stopped.
> >
> 
> Still is a reasonable explanation, IMHO. Basically, he's said: 
> I couldnt' stand looking within any more. What explanation for
> that save "unstressing?"

LOL!!! Actually, 2+ years of Waking Down gave me way deeper and way
more looking within than anything I ever experienced with TM. 





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[FairfieldLife] Re: Japa

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend"  wrote:
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig"  wrote:
> > >
> > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend"  
wrote:
> > > >
> > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig"  
wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" 
 
> > wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj  
wrote:
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > > There are a lot of reasons that TM would not work for a 
> > person 
> > > > but  
> > > > > > > they're probably similar or the same reasons other 
forms 
> > of  
> > > > > > > meditation might not work. IMO the most common reason 
is 
> > that 
> > > > the  
> > > > > > > person receiving the instruction, for whatever reason--
> > their 
> > > > > > mental  
> > > > > > > makeup, their worldview, their state of mind, etc.-- 
*just 
> > > > doesn't  
> > > > > > > get it*. A constitutional disconnect.  It just doesn't 
> > click 
> > > > with  
> > > > > > > where they're at. And of course this can happen with 
any 
> > form 
> > > > of  
> > > > > > > meditation. In a case such as this, it may be 
advantageous 
> > to 
> > > > wait  
> > > > > > > until a certain span of time has passed and then be re-
> > > > instructed.  
> > > > > > > The perspective of time can do wonders.
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > As it happens, TM provides for exactly this and 
> > > > > > recommends TMers take advantage of it on a regular
> > > > > > basis.
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > The checking procedure is essentially reinstruction
> > > > > > in the practice.
> > > > > 
> > > > > Not really. Its a reminder of effortlessness.
> > > > 
> > > > That's what TM instruction is.
> > > >
> > > 
> > > TM initiation isn't the same as the 3 nights of checking and 
> > > verification you get afterwards. 
> > > Certainly, there's overlap between checking and the three 
nights 
> > > checking. But that's not TM instruction.
> > 
> > Checking isn't *initiation*.
> > 
> > The differences from the initial instruction 
> > (the private session) are minor.
> >
> 
> I'd say they're major and all-important. The most obvious one is
> that initiation is a one-time deal.

Yes, that's why I just said "Checking isn't *initiation*."

I've been talking about instruction after the puja.






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[FairfieldLife] Re: Japa

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Alex Stanley"
>  wrote:
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig"  wrote:
> > >
> > > Contrariwise, that Alex ran into a major bout of unstressing he
> > > couldn't handle.
> > 
> > If it makes you feel better to believe that, be my guest.
> 
> That's exactly the kind of response these people
> can never 'get,' and likely will never 'get' for
> the duration of their present incarnation. They're
> locked into preserving their self-image of small
> self, and as far as I can tell, will be locked into
> it until the small self dissolves into the Bardo,
> and for several incarnations past that point. They
> just don't 'get' not having an ego to defend.
>


So, unstressing for you isn't a catch-all phrase? 






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[FairfieldLife] Re: Japa

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Alex Stanley" 
>  wrote:
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig"  wrote:
> > >
> > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Alex Stanley"
> >  wrote:
> > > >
> > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig"  
> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Contrariwise, that Alex ran into a major bout of unstressing 
> he
> > > > > couldn't handle.
> > > > 
> > > > If it makes you feel better to believe that, be my guest.
> > > >
> > > 
> > > Do you think it isn't the case?
> >  
> > Unstressing had nothing to with it. I know you can't help but try to
> > pigeonhole my experience into your cultishly held TM worldview
> 
> Oh, for chrissake, Alex.  It's a perfectly reasonable
> question given your initial "would no longer tolerate"
> explanation for why you stopped.
>

Still is a reasonable explanation, IMHO. Basically, he's said: I couldnt' stand 
looking within 
any more. What explanation for that save "unstressing?"






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[FairfieldLife] Re: Japa

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig"  wrote:
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend"  wrote:
> > >
> > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig"  wrote:
> > > >
> > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend"  
> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj  wrote:
> > > > > 
> > > > > > There are a lot of reasons that TM would not work for a 
> person 
> > > but  
> > > > > > they're probably similar or the same reasons other forms 
> of  
> > > > > > meditation might not work. IMO the most common reason is 
> that 
> > > the  
> > > > > > person receiving the instruction, for whatever reason--
> their 
> > > > > mental  
> > > > > > makeup, their worldview, their state of mind, etc.-- *just 
> > > doesn't  
> > > > > > get it*. A constitutional disconnect.  It just doesn't 
> click 
> > > with  
> > > > > > where they're at. And of course this can happen with any 
> form 
> > > of  
> > > > > > meditation. In a case such as this, it may be advantageous 
> to 
> > > wait  
> > > > > > until a certain span of time has passed and then be re-
> > > instructed.  
> > > > > > The perspective of time can do wonders.
> > > > > 
> > > > > As it happens, TM provides for exactly this and 
> > > > > recommends TMers take advantage of it on a regular
> > > > > basis.
> > > > > 
> > > > > The checking procedure is essentially reinstruction
> > > > > in the practice.
> > > > 
> > > > Not really. Its a reminder of effortlessness.
> > > 
> > > That's what TM instruction is.
> > >
> > 
> > TM initiation isn't the same as the 3 nights of checking and 
> > verification you get afterwards. 
> > Certainly, there's overlap between checking and the three nights 
> > checking. But that's not TM instruction.
> 
> Checking isn't *initiation*.
> 
> The differences from the initial instruction 
> (the private session) are minor.
>

I'd say they're major and all-important. The most obvious one is that 
initiation is a one-
time deal.






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[FairfieldLife] Re: Japa

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend"  wrote:
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig"  wrote:
> > >
> > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend"  
wrote:
> > > >
> > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig"  
wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" 
 
> > wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj  
wrote:
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > > There are a lot of reasons that TM would not work for a 
> > person 
> > > > but  
> > > > > > > they're probably similar or the same reasons other 
forms 
> > of  
> > > > > > > meditation might not work. IMO the most common reason 
is 
> > that 
> > > > the  
> > > > > > > person receiving the instruction, for whatever reason--
> > their 
> > > > > > mental  
> > > > > > > makeup, their worldview, their state of mind, etc.-- 
*just 
> > > > doesn't  
> > > > > > > get it*. A constitutional disconnect.  It just doesn't 
> > click 
> > > > with  
> > > > > > > where they're at. And of course this can happen with 
any 
> > form 
> > > > of  
> > > > > > > meditation. In a case such as this, it may be 
advantageous 
> > to 
> > > > wait  
> > > > > > > until a certain span of time has passed and then be re-
> > > > instructed.  
> > > > > > > The perspective of time can do wonders.
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > As it happens, TM provides for exactly this and 
> > > > > > recommends TMers take advantage of it on a regular
> > > > > > basis.
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > The checking procedure is essentially reinstruction
> > > > > > in the practice.
> > > > > 
> > > > > Not really. Its a reminder of effortlessness.
> > > > 
> > > > That's what TM instruction is.
> > > >
> > > 
> > > TM initiation isn't the same as the 3 nights of checking and 
> > > verification you get afterwards. 
> > > Certainly, there's overlap between checking and the three 
nights 
> > > checking. But that's not TM instruction.
> > 
> > Checking isn't *initiation*.
> > 
> > The differences from the initial instruction 
> > (the private session) are minor.
> 
> Says the person

Quite accurately.

 who was always too terrified to 
> become a TM teacher because she thought it might
> get in the way of her ego.  :-)

Uh, no, I was never "terrified" to become a TM
teacher, nor did I think it would get in the way
of my ego.







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[FairfieldLife] Re: Japa

2006-07-11 Thread TurquoiseB

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig"  wrote:
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend"  wrote:
> > >
> > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig"  wrote:
> > > >
> > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend"  
> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj  wrote:
> > > > > 
> > > > > > There are a lot of reasons that TM would not work for a 
> person 
> > > but  
> > > > > > they're probably similar or the same reasons other forms 
> of  
> > > > > > meditation might not work. IMO the most common reason is 
> that 
> > > the  
> > > > > > person receiving the instruction, for whatever reason--
> their 
> > > > > mental  
> > > > > > makeup, their worldview, their state of mind, etc.-- *just 
> > > doesn't  
> > > > > > get it*. A constitutional disconnect.  It just doesn't 
> click 
> > > with  
> > > > > > where they're at. And of course this can happen with any 
> form 
> > > of  
> > > > > > meditation. In a case such as this, it may be advantageous 
> to 
> > > wait  
> > > > > > until a certain span of time has passed and then be re-
> > > instructed.  
> > > > > > The perspective of time can do wonders.
> > > > > 
> > > > > As it happens, TM provides for exactly this and 
> > > > > recommends TMers take advantage of it on a regular
> > > > > basis.
> > > > > 
> > > > > The checking procedure is essentially reinstruction
> > > > > in the practice.
> > > > 
> > > > Not really. Its a reminder of effortlessness.
> > > 
> > > That's what TM instruction is.
> > >
> > 
> > TM initiation isn't the same as the 3 nights of checking and 
> > verification you get afterwards. 
> > Certainly, there's overlap between checking and the three nights 
> > checking. But that's not TM instruction.
> 
> Checking isn't *initiation*.
> 
> The differences from the initial instruction 
> (the private session) are minor.

Says the person who was always too terrified to 
become a TM teacher because she thought it might
get in the way of her ego.  :-)
]






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[FairfieldLife] Re: Japa

2006-07-11 Thread TurquoiseB

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Alex Stanley"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig"  wrote:
> >
> > Contrariwise, that Alex ran into a major bout of unstressing he
> > couldn't handle.
> 
> If it makes you feel better to believe that, be my guest.

That's exactly the kind of response these people
can never 'get,' and likely will never 'get' for
the duration of their present incarnation. They're
locked into preserving their self-image of small
self, and as far as I can tell, will be locked into
it until the small self dissolves into the Bardo,
and for several incarnations past that point. They
just don't 'get' not having an ego to defend.

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[FairfieldLife] Re: Japa

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Alex Stanley" 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig"  wrote:
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Alex Stanley"
>  wrote:
> > >
> > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig"  
wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Contrariwise, that Alex ran into a major bout of unstressing 
he
> > > > couldn't handle.
> > > 
> > > If it makes you feel better to believe that, be my guest.
> > >
> > 
> > Do you think it isn't the case?
>  
> Unstressing had nothing to with it. I know you can't help but try to
> pigeonhole my experience into your cultishly held TM worldview

Oh, for chrissake, Alex.  It's a perfectly reasonable
question given your initial "would no longer tolerate"
explanation for why you stopped.

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[FairfieldLife] Re: Japa

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Alex Stanley"
 wrote:
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig"  wrote:
> > >
> > > Contrariwise, that Alex ran into a major bout of unstressing he
> > > couldn't handle.
> > 
> > If it makes you feel better to believe that, be my guest.
> >
> 
> Do you think it isn't the case?

Unstressing had nothing to with it. I know you can't help but try to
pigeonhole my experience into your cultishly held TM worldview, so if
it makes you feel better to think that way about my experience, so be
it. But, for me, it was simply a matter of having reached the point
where I had to move on.

> > > > > In my case, I simply reached a point where my mind would no
longer
> > > > > tolerate doing TM, so I stopped and moved on.
> 
> Why couldn't you tolerate effortlessness any longer? And what
> "doing" are you referring to other than that?

I'd sit down to meditate and my mind wouldn't settle down. It was
outwardly focused and could no longer tolerate the escapism of
transcending. I'd always looked at TM as a means of fixing what I felt
was broken, and as such, TM was for me just another piece of the toxic
ego dynamic of grasping and aversion, preventing me from being present
in the here and now. 

However, TM never fixed what I wanted fixed, and I finally came to the
end of the TM road. The right path for me ended up being one where
instead of tiptoeing around sleeping elephants, one goes right up to
the sleeping elephants and slaps them on the ass. 

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[FairfieldLife] Re: Japa

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Alex Stanley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig"  wrote:
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj  wrote:
> > >
> > > 
> > > On Jul 11, 2006, at 8:20 AM, Alex Stanley wrote:
> > > 
> > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj  wrote:
> > > >
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> On Jul 11, 2006, at 4:35 AM, Mark wrote:
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >>> Is it possible that the criticism of TM, that it doesn't
> > > >>> accomplish
> > > >>> anything for many is because the Being by it's nature doesn't do
> > > >>> anything but must be enjoined with a relative agent such as a
> > > >>> mantra that would give It a relative focus. Mark _
> > > >>>
> > > >>
> > > >> There are a lot of reasons that TM would not work for a person but
> > > >> they're probably similar or the same reasons other forms of
> > > >> meditation might not work. IMO the most common reason is that the
> > > >> person receiving the instruction, for whatever reason--their mental
> > > >> makeup, their worldview, their state of mind, etc.-- *just doesn't
> > > >> get it*. A constitutional disconnect.  It just doesn't click with
> > > >> where they're at. And of course this can happen with any form of
> > > >> meditation. In a case such as this, it may be advantageous to wait
> > > >> until a certain span of time has passed and then be re-instructed.
> > > >> The perspective of time can do wonders.
> > > >>
> > > >
> > > > In my case, I simply reached a point where my mind would no longer
> > > > tolerate doing TM, so I stopped and moved on. My life focus took a
> > > > major turn for the better after Karunamayi's second visit to FF
> when I
> > > > started chanting the Gayatri Mantra. Everything just fell into place
> > > > after that.
> > > 
> > > 
> > > That's amazing. Just goes to show that mantras are constitutional
> and  
> > > what an excellent compass our own hearts can be.
> > >
> > 
> > Contrariwise, that Alex ran into a major bout of unstressing he
> > couldn't handle.
> 
> If it makes you feel better to believe that, be my guest.
>

Do you think it isn't the case?

> > > > In my case, I simply reached a point where my mind would no longer
> > > > tolerate doing TM, so I stopped and moved on.

Why couldn't you tolerate effortlessness any longer? And what "doing" are you 
referring to 
other than that?









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[FairfieldLife] Re: Japa

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend"  wrote:
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig"  wrote:
> > >
> > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend"  
wrote:
> > > >
> > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj  wrote:
> > > > 
> > > > > There are a lot of reasons that TM would not work for a 
person 
> > but  
> > > > > they're probably similar or the same reasons other forms 
of  
> > > > > meditation might not work. IMO the most common reason is 
that 
> > the  
> > > > > person receiving the instruction, for whatever reason--
their 
> > > > mental  
> > > > > makeup, their worldview, their state of mind, etc.-- *just 
> > doesn't  
> > > > > get it*. A constitutional disconnect.  It just doesn't 
click 
> > with  
> > > > > where they're at. And of course this can happen with any 
form 
> > of  
> > > > > meditation. In a case such as this, it may be advantageous 
to 
> > wait  
> > > > > until a certain span of time has passed and then be re-
> > instructed.  
> > > > > The perspective of time can do wonders.
> > > > 
> > > > As it happens, TM provides for exactly this and 
> > > > recommends TMers take advantage of it on a regular
> > > > basis.
> > > > 
> > > > The checking procedure is essentially reinstruction
> > > > in the practice.
> > > 
> > > Not really. Its a reminder of effortlessness.
> > 
> > That's what TM instruction is.
> >
> 
> TM initiation isn't the same as the 3 nights of checking and 
> verification you get afterwards. 
> Certainly, there's overlap between checking and the three nights 
> checking. But that's not TM instruction.

Checking isn't *initiation*.

The differences from the initial instruction 
(the private session) are minor.







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[FairfieldLife] Re: Japa

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig"  wrote:
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend"  wrote:
> > >
> > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj  wrote:
> > > 
> > > > There are a lot of reasons that TM would not work for a person 
> but  
> > > > they're probably similar or the same reasons other forms of  
> > > > meditation might not work. IMO the most common reason is that 
> the  
> > > > person receiving the instruction, for whatever reason--their 
> > > mental  
> > > > makeup, their worldview, their state of mind, etc.-- *just 
> doesn't  
> > > > get it*. A constitutional disconnect.  It just doesn't click 
> with  
> > > > where they're at. And of course this can happen with any form 
> of  
> > > > meditation. In a case such as this, it may be advantageous to 
> wait  
> > > > until a certain span of time has passed and then be re-
> instructed.  
> > > > The perspective of time can do wonders.
> > > 
> > > As it happens, TM provides for exactly this and 
> > > recommends TMers take advantage of it on a regular
> > > basis.
> > > 
> > > The checking procedure is essentially reinstruction
> > > in the practice.
> > 
> > Not really. Its a reminder of effortlessness.
> 
> That's what TM instruction is.
>

TM initiation isn't the same as the 3 nights of checking and verification you 
get afterwards. 
Certainly, there's overlap between checking and the three nights checking. But 
that's not 
TM instruction.






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[FairfieldLife] Re: Japa

2006-07-11 Thread Robert Gimbel

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Patrick Gillam" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
>
> Can't speak to the japa issue. Seems reasonable, 
> though. Other comments interleaved below.
> 
> --- Mark  wrote:
> >
> > Is it possible that the criticism of
> > TM, that it doesn't accomplish anything for 
> > many is because the Being by
> > it's nature doesn't do anything 
> 
> I would agree with this ^, and suggest a wrinkle.
> 
> Consciousness is flat and transparent. Hence, as 
> a rule, we don't notice it. But "Maharishi says" 
> (couldn't resist) pure consciousness is the source 
> and substrate of activity, and the greater one's 
> awareness of consciousness, the more of that 
> life-supporting effect influences our activity. 
> 
> With me so far?
> 
> What I'm getting at is this. If a person doesn't 
> notice anything from TM, is it because 
> consciousness is by nature flat and unnoticeable, 
> or because consciousness is for some reason 
> not enriching that person's activity, or because 
> the whole consciousness-activity link is fallacious? 
> Or what?
> 
> (I suppose one could argue that TM doesn't allow 
> one to experience silent, flat awareness to begin 
> with, too.)
> 
> > but must be enjoined with a relative agent
> > such as a mantra that would give It a relative focus. 
> 
> I thought the TM-Sidhi program was supposed 
> to provide some faint relativity against which to 
> notice consciousness moving. It's the activity in 
> the bathwater that makes one notice the water's 
> warm, so to speak.
>

My understanding is that TM cultures the mind to transcend from 
grosser levels of thinking to more and more subtle levels of 
thinking; and to transcend the thinking mind, altogether...
Then with the introduction of Sanyama;
The silence of being established, and the ability to trascend from 
gross thinking to subtle thinking;
One learns in Sanyama to introduce a sutra at the finest level of 
thought, and allow it to vibrate in the Being of your on Being; the 
universal so it becomes non-localized.
Then from the state of pure being, one could introduce any vibration.
One could introduce the name of thunder: Indra, and vibrate the 
vibration of Indra;
Everyting is creation has a vibration.
When you are established in Being, you can attune that universal 
vibration to vibrate anything.
Mantras are just vibrations, subtle vibrations;
So someone who is establised in being can effect anything they choose 
to focus their awareness on.
Doing the siddhi techniques just teaches one how to be imersed in 
Being while vibrating a specific vibration, producing a result based 
on intention.
So, Being, vibration, and intention is what ultimately creates your 
experience...
By the way; I think there is mention in Pantajali's material,
That there are three types of seekers;
Seekers of little interest, seekers with more intense interest;
And seekers of the intensity that all they want is enlightenment.
Guru Dev, Maharishi, and some  others are obviously in the most 
intense group of seekers...

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[FairfieldLife] Re: Japa

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj  wrote:
> >
> > 
> > On Jul 11, 2006, at 8:20 AM, Alex Stanley wrote:
> > 
> > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj  wrote:
> > >
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> On Jul 11, 2006, at 4:35 AM, Mark wrote:
> > >>
> > >>
> > >
> > >
> > >>> Is it possible that the criticism of TM, that it doesn't
> > >>> accomplish
> > >>> anything for many is because the Being by it's nature doesn't do
> > >>> anything but must be enjoined with a relative agent such as a
> > >>> mantra that would give It a relative focus. Mark _
> > >>>
> > >>
> > >> There are a lot of reasons that TM would not work for a person but
> > >> they're probably similar or the same reasons other forms of
> > >> meditation might not work. IMO the most common reason is that the
> > >> person receiving the instruction, for whatever reason--their mental
> > >> makeup, their worldview, their state of mind, etc.-- *just doesn't
> > >> get it*. A constitutional disconnect.  It just doesn't click with
> > >> where they're at. And of course this can happen with any form of
> > >> meditation. In a case such as this, it may be advantageous to wait
> > >> until a certain span of time has passed and then be re-instructed.
> > >> The perspective of time can do wonders.
> > >>
> > >
> > > In my case, I simply reached a point where my mind would no longer
> > > tolerate doing TM, so I stopped and moved on. My life focus took a
> > > major turn for the better after Karunamayi's second visit to FF
when I
> > > started chanting the Gayatri Mantra. Everything just fell into place
> > > after that.
> > 
> > 
> > That's amazing. Just goes to show that mantras are constitutional
and  
> > what an excellent compass our own hearts can be.
> >
> 
> Contrariwise, that Alex ran into a major bout of unstressing he
> couldn't handle.

If it makes you feel better to believe that, be my guest.





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[FairfieldLife] Re: Japa

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend"  wrote:
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj  wrote:
> > 
> > > There are a lot of reasons that TM would not work for a person 
but  
> > > they're probably similar or the same reasons other forms of  
> > > meditation might not work. IMO the most common reason is that 
the  
> > > person receiving the instruction, for whatever reason--their 
> > mental  
> > > makeup, their worldview, their state of mind, etc.-- *just 
doesn't  
> > > get it*. A constitutional disconnect.  It just doesn't click 
with  
> > > where they're at. And of course this can happen with any form 
of  
> > > meditation. In a case such as this, it may be advantageous to 
wait  
> > > until a certain span of time has passed and then be re-
instructed.  
> > > The perspective of time can do wonders.
> > 
> > As it happens, TM provides for exactly this and 
> > recommends TMers take advantage of it on a regular
> > basis.
> > 
> > The checking procedure is essentially reinstruction
> > in the practice.
> 
> Not really. Its a reminder of effortlessness.

That's what TM instruction is.







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[FairfieldLife] Re: Japa

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> 
> On Jul 11, 2006, at 8:20 AM, Alex Stanley wrote:
> 
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj  wrote:
> >
> >>
> >>
> >> On Jul 11, 2006, at 4:35 AM, Mark wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >>> Is it possible that the criticism of TM, that it doesn't
> >>> accomplish
> >>> anything for many is because the Being by it's nature doesn't do
> >>> anything but must be enjoined with a relative agent such as a
> >>> mantra that would give It a relative focus. Mark _
> >>>
> >>
> >> There are a lot of reasons that TM would not work for a person but
> >> they're probably similar or the same reasons other forms of
> >> meditation might not work. IMO the most common reason is that the
> >> person receiving the instruction, for whatever reason--their mental
> >> makeup, their worldview, their state of mind, etc.-- *just doesn't
> >> get it*. A constitutional disconnect.  It just doesn't click with
> >> where they're at. And of course this can happen with any form of
> >> meditation. In a case such as this, it may be advantageous to wait
> >> until a certain span of time has passed and then be re-instructed.
> >> The perspective of time can do wonders.
> >>
> >
> > In my case, I simply reached a point where my mind would no longer
> > tolerate doing TM, so I stopped and moved on. My life focus took a
> > major turn for the better after Karunamayi's second visit to FF when I
> > started chanting the Gayatri Mantra. Everything just fell into place
> > after that.
> 
> 
> That's amazing. Just goes to show that mantras are constitutional and  
> what an excellent compass our own hearts can be.
>

Contrariwise, that Alex ran into a major bout of unstressing he couldn't handle.







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[FairfieldLife] Re: Japa

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj  wrote:
> 
> > There are a lot of reasons that TM would not work for a person but  
> > they're probably similar or the same reasons other forms of  
> > meditation might not work. IMO the most common reason is that the  
> > person receiving the instruction, for whatever reason--their 
> mental  
> > makeup, their worldview, their state of mind, etc.-- *just doesn't  
> > get it*. A constitutional disconnect.  It just doesn't click with  
> > where they're at. And of course this can happen with any form of  
> > meditation. In a case such as this, it may be advantageous to wait  
> > until a certain span of time has passed and then be re-instructed.  
> > The perspective of time can do wonders.
> 
> As it happens, TM provides for exactly this and 
> recommends TMers take advantage of it on a regular
> basis.
> 
> The checking procedure is essentially reinstruction
> in the practice.
>

Not really. Its a reminder of effortlessness.






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[FairfieldLife] Re: Japa

2006-07-11 Thread Patrick Gillam

Can't speak to the japa issue. Seems reasonable, 
though. Other comments interleaved below.

--- Mark <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Is it possible that the criticism of
> TM, that it doesn't accomplish anything for 
> many is because the Being by
> it's nature doesn't do anything 

I would agree with this ^, and suggest a wrinkle.

Consciousness is flat and transparent. Hence, as 
a rule, we don't notice it. But "Maharishi says" 
(couldn't resist) pure consciousness is the source 
and substrate of activity, and the greater one's 
awareness of consciousness, the more of that 
life-supporting effect influences our activity. 

With me so far?

What I'm getting at is this. If a person doesn't 
notice anything from TM, is it because 
consciousness is by nature flat and unnoticeable, 
or because consciousness is for some reason 
not enriching that person's activity, or because 
the whole consciousness-activity link is fallacious? 
Or what?

(I suppose one could argue that TM doesn't allow 
one to experience silent, flat awareness to begin 
with, too.)

> but must be enjoined with a relative agent
> such as a mantra that would give It a relative focus. 

I thought the TM-Sidhi program was supposed 
to provide some faint relativity against which to 
notice consciousness moving. It's the activity in 
the bathwater that makes one notice the water's 
warm, so to speak.

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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Japa

2006-07-11 Thread Vaj

On Jul 11, 2006, at 8:20 AM, Alex Stanley wrote:--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: On Jul 11, 2006, at 4:35 AM, Mark wrote: Is it possible that the criticism of TM, that it doesn't accomplish anything for many is because the Being by it's nature doesn't do anything but must be enjoined with a relative agent such as a mantra that would give It a relative focus. Mark _ There are a lot of reasons that TM would not work for a person but they're probably similar or the same reasons other forms of meditation might not work. IMO the most common reason is that the person receiving the instruction, for whatever reason--their mental makeup, their worldview, their state of mind, etc.-- *just doesn't get it*. A constitutional disconnect. It just doesn't click with where they're at. And of course this can happen with any form of meditation. In a case such as this, it may be advantageous to wait until a certain span of time has passed and then be re-instructed. The perspective of time can do wonders. In my case, I simply reached a point where my mind would no longer tolerate doing TM, so I stopped and moved on. My life focus took a major turn for the better after Karunamayi's second visit to FF when I started chanting the Gayatri Mantra. Everything just fell into place after that. That's amazing. Just goes to show that mantras are constitutional and what an excellent compass our own hearts can be.
__._,_.___

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__,_._,___

[FairfieldLife] Re: Japa

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> 
> On Jul 11, 2006, at 4:35 AM, Mark wrote:
> 

> > Is it possible that the criticism of TM, that it doesn't
> > accomplish  
> > anything for many is because the Being by it's nature doesn't do  
> > anything but must be enjoined with a relative agent such as a  
> > mantra that would give It a relative focus. Mark _
> 
> There are a lot of reasons that TM would not work for a person but  
> they're probably similar or the same reasons other forms of  
> meditation might not work. IMO the most common reason is that the  
> person receiving the instruction, for whatever reason--their mental  
> makeup, their worldview, their state of mind, etc.-- *just doesn't  
> get it*. A constitutional disconnect.  It just doesn't click with  
> where they're at. And of course this can happen with any form of  
> meditation. In a case such as this, it may be advantageous to wait  
> until a certain span of time has passed and then be re-instructed.  
> The perspective of time can do wonders.
 
In my case, I simply reached a point where my mind would no longer
tolerate doing TM, so I stopped and moved on. My life focus took a
major turn for the better after Karunamayi's second visit to FF when I
started chanting the Gayatri Mantra. Everything just fell into place
after that.






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[FairfieldLife] Re: Japa