[FairfieldLife] Re: Jesuit Trained Pope Trashes Capitalism in Call for Worldwide Socialism
Thanks for raising this issue Bhairitu. Right now, patent period for patent holders is 20 years, which IMO is too long. This is one of the reasons why new inventions take too long to become cheap. Take for instance the Compact-Disk developed by Philips and Sony. It took 20 years for CD's to become cheap. A shorter patent term of say, 8 years is quite enough for the patent holder to recover his costs. Secondly patents should be managed by a UN based body. This will bring global uniformity regarding patent rights. --- Bhairitu noozguru@... wrote: The country needs to be about 90% socialist and 10% capitalist (actually free enterprise). The latter would take care of the folks who want to work for themselves and the former the majority who don't want to worry about running a company. You would need to limit the size of companies though. Allowing for mega corporations has proven to be a real problem. Government needs to be transparent and transcendental or not in your face. A lot of laws on US books (including copyright) need to be thrown out and about the only way that will ever happen is for the US to collapse as the former Soviet Union did. The problem is there will be a struggle as those who are so mentally imbalanced that they feel the need to be king of the hill will try to grab up everything they can. On 12/08/2013 02:22 AM, Jason wrote: Hey Bhairitu, the first thing that needs to be done is to de-link the 'political-system' from the economic-system. Of course, you can't ban private donations. That would go against the very spirit of democracy and freedom. However, you can create a situation in which there is no incentive for political parties to seek private donations. Besides, you can add a law that bars corporations from donating more that 10% percent of their profits to political parties. Capitalism works very well for the economic system. Capitalism works very badly for the political system. Capitalism works very badly for the cultural systems. Both, political system and cultural systems need to be based on Socialism. Consider all the three systems as three corners of a triangle. --- Bhairitu noozguru@ wrote: The point is Mike that the Santa Clara vs Southern Pacific Railroad case was the end of the more restrictive rules on corporations. It was the first step toward corporate personhood. What it seemed to bring were many states limitations on the life span of a corporation which back then was around 40 years. I'm going to provide some good articles here analyzing it's effects for you and others who are interested. History of regulations on corporations: http://reclaimdemocracy.org/corporate-accountability-history-corporation\ s-us/ Long excerpt from Thom Hartmann's book: http://www.thomhartmann.com/unequal-protection/excerpt-theft Surely you don't think that mega-corporations are good for the world, do you? I've heard arguments that big corporations make new technologies possible. But that is not true. Big corporations buy up little companies who create new technologies. IBM, Microsoft, Apple and Google have done that for years. Android was developed by a small company that Google bought. Surely you don't think that wealth inequality is a good thing, do you? Shouldn't there be a cap on salaries? It seems to me the planet is being raided by a bunch of mobsters masquerading as corporations. This was more blatant in the former Soviet Union after it fell and oligarchs popped up raiding what they could. Wouldn't you like your dollar to go a lot farther than it does now? This is NOT a partisan issue. On 12/06/2013 10:30 AM, Mike Dixon wrote: Share I was asking Bharitu what his point was,regarding that court case he was sighting. On Friday, December 6, 2013 7:18 AM, Share Long sharelong60@ wrote: Mike, my point was and is: it's all pretty funny so I hope you can just enjoy the humor of it all (-: On Friday, December 6, 2013 8:52 AM, Mike Dixon mdixon.6569@ wrote: So , what was your point? On Thursday, December 5, 2013 10:05 AM, Share Long sharelong60@ wrote: I think we got a barbell situation right here on FFL! On Thursday, December 5, 2013 12:02 PM, Jason jedi_spock@ wrote: You don't understand. It's called the barbell strategy. You create a system which has some positives and drawbacks. You again create another reverse mirror image system. The two systems balance each other out. A 'socialistic political system' will balance out a 'capitalistic economic system'. Political subsidies for political parties will ease the pressure off the parties and prevent them from playing to the gallery. They will stop worrying about funds and start focussing on real policies for
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Jesuit Trained Pope Trashes Capitalism in Call for Worldwide Socialism
Thanks, Jason, I learned something about patents from your post. On Monday, December 9, 2013 3:34 AM, Jason jedi_sp...@yahoo.com wrote: Thanks for raising this issue Bhairitu. Right now, patent period for patent holders is 20 years, which IMO is too long. This is one of the reasons why new inventions take too long to become cheap. Take for instance the Compact-Disk developed by Philips and Sony. It took 20 years for CD's to become cheap. A shorter patent term of say, 8 years is quite enough for the patent holder to recover his costs. Secondly patents should be managed by a UN based body. This will bring global uniformity regarding patent rights. --- Bhairitu noozguru@... wrote: The country needs to be about 90% socialist and 10% capitalist (actually free enterprise). The latter would take care of the folks who want to work for themselves and the former the majority who don't want to worry about running a company. You would need to limit the size of companies though. Allowing for mega corporations has proven to be a real problem. Government needs to be transparent and transcendental or not in your face. A lot of laws on US books (including copyright) need to be thrown out and about the only way that will ever happen is for the US to collapse as the former Soviet Union did. The problem is there will be a struggle as those who are so mentally imbalanced that they feel the need to be king of the hill will try to grab up everything they can. On 12/08/2013 02:22 AM, Jason wrote: Hey Bhairitu, the first thing that needs to be done is to de-link the 'political-system' from the economic-system. Of course, you can't ban private donations. That would go against the very spirit of democracy and freedom. However, you can create a situation in which there is no incentive for political parties to seek private donations. Besides, you can add a law that bars corporations from donating more that 10% percent of their profits to political parties. Capitalism works very well for the economic system. Capitalism works very badly for the political system. Capitalism works very badly for the cultural systems. Both, political system and cultural systems need to be based on Socialism. Consider all the three systems as three corners of a triangle. --- Bhairitu noozguru@ wrote: The point is Mike that the Santa Clara vs Southern Pacific Railroad case was the end of the more restrictive rules on corporations. It was the first step toward corporate personhood. What it seemed to bring were many states limitations on the life span of a corporation which back then was around 40 years. I'm going to provide some good articles here analyzing it's effects for you and others who are interested. History of regulations on corporations: http://reclaimdemocracy.org/corporate-accountability-history-corporations-us/ Long excerpt from Thom Hartmann's book: http://www.thomhartmann.com/unequal-protection/excerpt-theft Surely you don't think that mega-corporations are good for the world, do you? I've heard arguments that big corporations make new technologies possible. But that is not true. Big corporations buy up little companies who create new technologies. IBM, Microsoft, Apple and Google have done that for years. Android was developed by a small company that Google bought. Surely you don't think that wealth inequality is a good thing, do you? Shouldn't there be a cap on salaries? It seems to me the planet is being raided by a bunch of mobsters masquerading as corporations. This was more blatant in the former Soviet Union after it fell and oligarchs popped up raiding what they could. Wouldn't you like your dollar to go a lot farther than it does now? This is NOT a partisan issue. On 12/06/2013 10:30 AM, Mike Dixon wrote: Share I was asking Bharitu what his point was,regarding that court case he was sighting. On Friday, December 6, 2013 7:18 AM, Share Long sharelong60@ wrote: Mike, my point was and is: it's all pretty funny so I hope you can just enjoy the humor of it all (-: On Friday, December 6, 2013 8:52 AM, Mike Dixon mdixon.6569@ wrote: So , what was your point? On Thursday, December 5, 2013 10:05 AM, Share Long sharelong60@ wrote: I think we got a barbell situation right here on FFL! On Thursday, December 5, 2013 12:02 PM, Jason jedi_spock@ wrote: You don't understand. It's called the barbell strategy. You create a system which has some positives and drawbacks. You again create another reverse mirror image system. The two systems balance each other out. A 'socialistic political system' will balance out a 'capitalistic economic system'. Political subsidies for political parties will ease the
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Jesuit Trained Pope Trashes Capitalism in Call for Worldwide Socialism
Corporate lawyers like to patent anything that isn't nailed down. The board of directors for the software company I worked for wanted patents. So I had to put together a patent program with a patent attorney even though none of us wanted to do it. Software patents are particularly ridiculous because often you are patenting something that is just the way a computer works. But because it wasn't patented before it could be patented. As reported last week the Supreme Court is going to be hearing this issue. India was appalled that a pharmaceutical company patented neem so they put together a program to patent all the various herbs and make them open just to prevent any more outrageous actions like that. Disney lawyers ruined copyrights just so Disney could keep selling their 1930s cartoons forever. The DMCA has been referred to as Disney vs the Internet. On 12/09/2013 01:33 AM, Jason wrote: Thanks for raising this issue Bhairitu. Right now, patent period for patent holders is 20 years, which IMO is too long. This is one of the reasons why new inventions take too long to become cheap. Take for instance the Compact-Disk developed by Philips and Sony. It took 20 years for CD's to become cheap. A shorter patent term of say, 8 years is quite enough for the patent holder to recover his costs. Secondly patents should be managed by a UN based body. This will bring global uniformity regarding patent rights.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Jesuit Trained Pope Trashes Capitalism in Call for Worldwide Socialism
Hey Bhairitu, the first thing that needs to be done is to de-link the 'political-system' from the economic-system. Of course, you can't ban private donations. That would go against the very spirit of democracy and freedom. However, you can create a situation in which there is no incentive for political parties to seek private donations. Besides, you can add a law that bars corporations from donating more that 10% percent of their profits to political parties. Capitalism works very well for the economic system. Capitalism works very badly for the political system. Capitalism works very badly for the cultural systems. Both, political system and cultural systems need to be based on Socialism. Consider all the three systems as three corners of a triangle. --- Bhairitu noozguru@... wrote: The point is Mike that the Santa Clara vs Southern Pacific Railroad case was the end of the more restrictive rules on corporations. It was the first step toward corporate personhood. What it seemed to bring were many states limitations on the life span of a corporation which back then was around 40 years. I'm going to provide some good articles here analyzing it's effects for you and others who are interested. History of regulations on corporations: http://reclaimdemocracy.org/corporate-accountability-history-corporation\ s-us/ Long excerpt from Thom Hartmann's book: http://www.thomhartmann.com/unequal-protection/excerpt-theft Surely you don't think that mega-corporations are good for the world, do you? I've heard arguments that big corporations make new technologies possible. But that is not true. Big corporations buy up little companies who create new technologies. IBM, Microsoft, Apple and Google have done that for years. Android was developed by a small company that Google bought. Surely you don't think that wealth inequality is a good thing, do you? Shouldn't there be a cap on salaries? It seems to me the planet is being raided by a bunch of mobsters masquerading as corporations. This was more blatant in the former Soviet Union after it fell and oligarchs popped up raiding what they could. Wouldn't you like your dollar to go a lot farther than it does now? This is NOT a partisan issue. On 12/06/2013 10:30 AM, Mike Dixon wrote: Share I was asking Bharitu what his point was,regarding that court case he was sighting. On Friday, December 6, 2013 7:18 AM, Share Long sharelong60@... wrote: Mike, my point was and is: it's all pretty funny so I hope you can just enjoy the humor of it all (-: On Friday, December 6, 2013 8:52 AM, Mike Dixon mdixon.6569@... wrote: So , what was your point? On Thursday, December 5, 2013 10:05 AM, Share Long sharelong60@... wrote: I think we got a barbell situation right here on FFL! On Thursday, December 5, 2013 12:02 PM, Jason jedi_spock@... wrote: You don't understand. It's called the barbell strategy. You create a system which has some positives and drawbacks. You again create another reverse mirror image system. The two systems balance each other out. A 'socialistic political system' will balance out a 'capitalistic economic system'. Political subsidies for political parties will ease the pressure off the parties and prevent them from playing to the gallery. They will stop worrying about funds and start focussing on real policies for growth. It also prevents crony capitalism and promotes real pro-market capitalism. --- s3raphita@ wrote: Re At least, 3% of the total budget should be allocated to political parties as subsidies.: WTF! I don't want one cent of my money to go to a political party. Let them pay for their own propaganda. Extremist parties wouldn't arise if mainstream parties actually pursued policies that were in the interests of the voters. How hard can it be? --- s3raphita@ wrote: Re Capitalist governments shouldn't be bailing anybody out . . . If the government takes the risk out of the equation by offering a bailout, any fool could run a business and risk everyone's investments in it with no lessons learned.: Precisely my point. You can argue that we should move towards a more Ayn Rand set-up and get governments off our backs. It's states offering bailouts that has encouraged the banks to take idiotic risks. You could argue the opposite though - financial institutions should come under more strenuous oversight from financial regulators with the state limiting bonuses and having a veto on risky investments. It's the current mixed-economy model that isn't fit for purpose. Bankers socialism pisses off everyone. --- Jason jedi_spock@ wrote: The 'capitalistic political system' is the greatest dogma of the 20th century. The 'socialistic economic system' is the second greatest
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Jesuit Trained Pope Trashes Capitalism in Call for Worldwide Socialism
The country needs to be about 90% socialist and 10% capitalist (actually free enterprise). The latter would take care of the folks who want to work for themselves and the former the majority who don't want to worry about running a company. You would need to limit the size of companies though. Allowing for mega corporations has proven to be a real problem. Government needs to be transparent and transcendental or not in your face. A lot of laws on US books (including copyright) need to be thrown out and about the only way that will ever happen is for the US to collapse as the former Soviet Union did. The problem is there will be a struggle as those who are so mentally imbalanced that they feel the need to be king of the hill will try to grab up everything they can. On 12/08/2013 02:22 AM, Jason wrote: Hey Bhairitu, the first thing that needs to be done is to de-link the 'political-system' from the economic-system. Of course, you can't ban private donations. That would go against the very spirit of democracy and freedom. However, you can create a situation in which there is no incentive for political parties to seek private donations. Besides, you can add a law that bars corporations from donating more that 10% percent of their profits to political parties. Capitalism works very well for the economic system. Capitalism works very badly for the political system. Capitalism works very badly for the cultural systems. Both, political system and cultural systems need to be based on Socialism. Consider all the three systems as three corners of a triangle. --- Bhairitu noozguru@... wrote: The point is Mike that the Santa Clara vs Southern Pacific Railroad case was the end of the more restrictive rules on corporations. It was the first step toward corporate personhood. What it seemed to bring were many states limitations on the life span of a corporation which back then was around 40 years. I'm going to provide some good articles here analyzing it's effects for you and others who are interested. History of regulations on corporations: http://reclaimdemocracy.org/corporate-accountability-history-corporations-us/ Long excerpt from Thom Hartmann's book: http://www.thomhartmann.com/unequal-protection/excerpt-theft Surely you don't think that mega-corporations are good for the world, do you? I've heard arguments that big corporations make new technologies possible. But that is not true. Big corporations buy up little companies who create new technologies. IBM, Microsoft, Apple and Google have done that for years. Android was developed by a small company that Google bought. Surely you don't think that wealth inequality is a good thing, do you? Shouldn't there be a cap on salaries? It seems to me the planet is being raided by a bunch of mobsters masquerading as corporations. This was more blatant in the former Soviet Union after it fell and oligarchs popped up raiding what they could. Wouldn't you like your dollar to go a lot farther than it does now? This is NOT a partisan issue. On 12/06/2013 10:30 AM, Mike Dixon wrote: Share I was asking Bharitu what his point was,regarding that court case he was sighting. On Friday, December 6, 2013 7:18 AM, Share Long sharelong60@... wrote: Mike, my point was and is: it's all pretty funny so I hope you can just enjoy the humor of it all (-: On Friday, December 6, 2013 8:52 AM, Mike Dixon mdixon.6569@... wrote: So , what was your point? On Thursday, December 5, 2013 10:05 AM, Share Long sharelong60@... wrote: I think we got a barbell situation right here on FFL! On Thursday, December 5, 2013 12:02 PM, Jason jedi_spock@... wrote: You don't understand. It's called the barbell strategy. You create a system which has some positives and drawbacks. You again create another reverse mirror image system. The two systems balance each other out. A 'socialistic political system' will balance out a 'capitalistic economic system'. Political subsidies for political parties will ease the pressure off the parties and prevent them from playing to the gallery. They will stop worrying about funds and start focussing on real policies for growth. It also prevents crony capitalism and promotes real pro-market capitalism. --- s3raphita@ wrote: Re At least, 3% of the total budget should be allocated to political parties as subsidies.: WTF! I don't want one cent of my money to go to a political party. Let them pay for their own propaganda. Extremist parties wouldn't arise if mainstream parties actually pursued policies that were in the interests of the voters. How hard can it be? --- s3raphita@ wrote: Re Capitalist governments shouldn't be bailing anybody out . . . If the government takes the risk out of the equation by offering a bailout, any fool could run a business and risk everyone's
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Jesuit Trained Pope Trashes Capitalism in Call for Worldwide Socialism
I saw a fascinating interview on France 24, recently -- the equivalent of BBC world service. It was with President Goodluck Jonathan, of Nigeria. He was explaining how Nelson Mandela changed African politics, by having a broader vision for South Africa, and the ability to carry it out, than the traditional nepotism that had been the standard, and still is, in much of Africa. He also spoke with an intelligence, and clear understanding of his country's challenges, and global position, without all of the rhetoric, sloganeering, and vague promises, aka bullshit, that underpins politics in the US. An impressive leader - makes us look like a bunch of ADD kids - lol.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Jesuit Trained Pope Trashes Capitalism in Call for Worldwide Socialism
So , what was your point? On Thursday, December 5, 2013 10:05 AM, Share Long sharelon...@yahoo.com wrote: I think we got a barbell situation right here on FFL! On Thursday, December 5, 2013 12:02 PM, Jason jedi_sp...@yahoo.com wrote: You don't understand. It's called the barbell strategy. You create a system which has some positives and drawbacks. You again create another reverse mirror image system. The two systems balance each other out. A 'socialistic political system' will balance out a 'capitalistic economic system'. Political subsidies for political parties will ease the pressure off the parties and prevent them from playing to the gallery. They will stop worrying about funds and start focussing on real policies for growth. It also prevents crony capitalism and promotes real pro-market capitalism. --- s3raphita@... wrote: Re At least, 3% of the total budget should be allocated to political parties as subsidies.: WTF! I don't want one cent of my money to go to a political party. Let them pay for their own propaganda. Extremist parties wouldn't arise if mainstream parties actually pursued policies that were in the interests of the voters. How hard can it be? --- s3raphita@ wrote: Re Capitalist governments shouldn't be bailing anybody out . . . If the government takes the risk out of the equation by offering a bailout, any fool could run a business and risk everyone's investments in it with no lessons learned.: Precisely my point. You can argue that we should move towards a more Ayn Rand set-up and get governments off our backs. It's states offering bailouts that has encouraged the banks to take idiotic risks. You could argue the opposite though - financial institutions should come under more strenuous oversight from financial regulators with the state limiting bonuses and having a veto on risky investments. It's the current mixed-economy model that isn't fit for purpose. Bankers socialism pisses off everyone. --- Jason jedi_spock@... wrote: The 'capitalistic political system' is the greatest dogma of the 20th century. The 'socialistic economic system' is the second greatest dogma of the 20th century. A 'capitalistic political system' is tantamount to 'corporate dictatorship'. Atleast, 3% percent of the total budget money should be allocated to political parties as political subsidies. These political subsidies should be distributed to parties on vote proportion basis. This will force political parties to take a more centrist position and prevent extreme fringe ideologies from arising.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Jesuit Trained Pope Trashes Capitalism in Call for Worldwide Socialism
Mike, my point was and is: it's all pretty funny so I hope you can just enjoy the humor of it all (-: On Friday, December 6, 2013 8:52 AM, Mike Dixon mdixon.6...@yahoo.com wrote: So , what was your point? On Thursday, December 5, 2013 10:05 AM, Share Long sharelon...@yahoo.com wrote: I think we got a barbell situation right here on FFL! On Thursday, December 5, 2013 12:02 PM, Jason jedi_sp...@yahoo.com wrote: You don't understand. It's called the barbell strategy. You create a system which has some positives and drawbacks. You again create another reverse mirror image system. The two systems balance each other out. A 'socialistic political system' will balance out a 'capitalistic economic system'. Political subsidies for political parties will ease the pressure off the parties and prevent them from playing to the gallery. They will stop worrying about funds and start focussing on real policies for growth. It also prevents crony capitalism and promotes real pro-market capitalism. --- s3raphita@... wrote: Re At least, 3% of the total budget should be allocated to political parties as subsidies.: WTF! I don't want one cent of my money to go to a political party. Let them pay for their own propaganda. Extremist parties wouldn't arise if mainstream parties actually pursued policies that were in the interests of the voters. How hard can it be? --- s3raphita@ wrote: Re Capitalist governments shouldn't be bailing anybody out . . . If the government takes the risk out of the equation by offering a bailout, any fool could run a business and risk everyone's investments in it with no lessons learned.: Precisely my point. You can argue that we should move towards a more Ayn Rand set-up and get governments off our backs. It's states offering bailouts that has encouraged the banks to take idiotic risks. You could argue the opposite though - financial institutions should come under more strenuous oversight from financial regulators with the state limiting bonuses and having a veto on risky investments. It's the current mixed-economy model that isn't fit for purpose. Bankers socialism pisses off everyone. --- Jason jedi_spock@... wrote: The 'capitalistic political system' is the greatest dogma of the 20th century. The 'socialistic economic system' is the second greatest dogma of the 20th century. A 'capitalistic political system' is tantamount to 'corporate dictatorship'. Atleast, 3% percent of the total budget money should be allocated to political parties as political subsidies. These political subsidies should be distributed to parties on vote proportion basis. This will force political parties to take a more centrist position and prevent extreme fringe ideologies from arising.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Jesuit Trained Pope Trashes Capitalism in Call for Worldwide Socialism
Share I was asking Bharitu what his point was,regarding that court case he was sighting. On Friday, December 6, 2013 7:18 AM, Share Long sharelon...@yahoo.com wrote: Mike, my point was and is: it's all pretty funny so I hope you can just enjoy the humor of it all (-: On Friday, December 6, 2013 8:52 AM, Mike Dixon mdixon.6...@yahoo.com wrote: So , what was your point? On Thursday, December 5, 2013 10:05 AM, Share Long sharelon...@yahoo.com wrote: I think we got a barbell situation right here on FFL! On Thursday, December 5, 2013 12:02 PM, Jason jedi_sp...@yahoo.com wrote: You don't understand. It's called the barbell strategy. You create a system which has some positives and drawbacks. You again create another reverse mirror image system. The two systems balance each other out. A 'socialistic political system' will balance out a 'capitalistic economic system'. Political subsidies for political parties will ease the pressure off the parties and prevent them from playing to the gallery. They will stop worrying about funds and start focussing on real policies for growth. It also prevents crony capitalism and promotes real pro-market capitalism. --- s3raphita@... wrote: Re At least, 3% of the total budget should be allocated to political parties as subsidies.: WTF! I don't want one cent of my money to go to a political party. Let them pay for their own propaganda. Extremist parties wouldn't arise if mainstream parties actually pursued policies that were in the interests of the voters. How hard can it be? --- s3raphita@ wrote: Re Capitalist governments shouldn't be bailing anybody out . . . If the government takes the risk out of the equation by offering a bailout, any fool could run a business and risk everyone's investments in it with no lessons learned.: Precisely my point. You can argue that we should move towards a more Ayn Rand set-up and get governments off our backs. It's states offering bailouts that has encouraged the banks to take idiotic risks. You could argue the opposite though - financial institutions should come under more strenuous oversight from financial regulators with the state limiting bonuses and having a veto on risky investments. It's the current mixed-economy model that isn't fit for purpose. Bankers socialism pisses off everyone. --- Jason jedi_spock@... wrote: The 'capitalistic political system' is the greatest dogma of the 20th century. The 'socialistic economic system' is the second greatest dogma of the 20th century. A 'capitalistic political system' is tantamount to 'corporate dictatorship'. Atleast, 3% percent of the total budget money should be allocated to political parties as political subsidies. These political subsidies should be distributed to parties on vote proportion basis. This will force political parties to take a more centrist position and prevent extreme fringe ideologies from arising.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Jesuit Trained Pope Trashes Capitalism in Call for Worldwide Socialism
You don't understand. It's called the barbell strategy. You create a system which has some positives and drawbacks. You again create another reverse mirror image system. The two systems balance each other out. A 'socialistic political system' will balance out a 'capitalistic economic system'. Political subsidies for political parties will ease the pressure off the parties and prevent them from playing to the gallery. They will stop worrying about funds and start focussing on real policies for growth. It also prevents crony capitalism and promotes real pro-market capitalism. --- s3raphita@... wrote: Re At least, 3% of the total budget should be allocated to political parties as subsidies.: WTF! I don't want one cent of my money to go to a political party. Let them pay for their own propaganda. Extremist parties wouldn't arise if mainstream parties actually pursued policies that were in the interests of the voters. How hard can it be? --- s3raphita@ wrote: Re Capitalist governments shouldn't be bailing anybody out . . . If the government takes the risk out of the equation by offering a bailout, any fool could run a business and risk everyone's investments in it with no lessons learned.: Precisely my point. You can argue that we should move towards a more Ayn Rand set-up and get governments off our backs. It's states offering bailouts that has encouraged the banks to take idiotic risks. You could argue the opposite though - financial institutions should come under more strenuous oversight from financial regulators with the state limiting bonuses and having a veto on risky investments. It's the current mixed-economy model that isn't fit for purpose. Bankers socialism pisses off everyone. --- Jason jedi_spock@... wrote: The 'capitalistic political system' is the greatest dogma of the 20th century. The 'socialistic economic system' is the second greatest dogma of the 20th century. A 'capitalistic political system' is tantamount to 'corporate dictatorship'. Atleast, 3% percent of the total budget money should be allocated to political parties as political subsidies. These political subsidies should be distributed to parties on vote proportion basis. This will force political parties to take a more centrist position and prevent extreme fringe ideologies from arising.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Jesuit Trained Pope Trashes Capitalism in Call for Worldwide Socialism
I think we got a barbell situation right here on FFL! On Thursday, December 5, 2013 12:02 PM, Jason jedi_sp...@yahoo.com wrote: You don't understand. It's called the barbell strategy. You create a system which has some positives and drawbacks. You again create another reverse mirror image system. The two systems balance each other out. A 'socialistic political system' will balance out a 'capitalistic economic system'. Political subsidies for political parties will ease the pressure off the parties and prevent them from playing to the gallery. They will stop worrying about funds and start focussing on real policies for growth. It also prevents crony capitalism and promotes real pro-market capitalism. --- s3raphita@... wrote: Re At least, 3% of the total budget should be allocated to political parties as subsidies.: WTF! I don't want one cent of my money to go to a political party. Let them pay for their own propaganda. Extremist parties wouldn't arise if mainstream parties actually pursued policies that were in the interests of the voters. How hard can it be? --- s3raphita@ wrote: Re Capitalist governments shouldn't be bailing anybody out . . . If the government takes the risk out of the equation by offering a bailout, any fool could run a business and risk everyone's investments in it with no lessons learned.: Precisely my point. You can argue that we should move towards a more Ayn Rand set-up and get governments off our backs. It's states offering bailouts that has encouraged the banks to take idiotic risks. You could argue the opposite though - financial institutions should come under more strenuous oversight from financial regulators with the state limiting bonuses and having a veto on risky investments. It's the current mixed-economy model that isn't fit for purpose. Bankers socialism pisses off everyone. --- Jason jedi_spock@... wrote: The 'capitalistic political system' is the greatest dogma of the 20th century. The 'socialistic economic system' is the second greatest dogma of the 20th century. A 'capitalistic political system' is tantamount to 'corporate dictatorship'. Atleast, 3% percent of the total budget money should be allocated to political parties as political subsidies. These political subsidies should be distributed to parties on vote proportion basis. This will force political parties to take a more centrist position and prevent extreme fringe ideologies from arising.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Jesuit Trained Pope Trashes Capitalism in Call for Worldwide Socialism
No dude, I had a typical public education. I grew up very liberal and anti -capitalist until I got my first job,LOL! My eyes opened and M's teaching began to sink in. I remember Varmaji telling me you are the creator of your own destiny and I started developing a strong sense of personal reponsability, self reliance and independance. About this time I remember the Democrats along with Jimmy Carter telling me they only wanted to help me but I saw them waving a dollar in my face to buy my vote while stealing ten out of my back pocket. Then Ronald Reagan came along. THANK YOU JESUS! On Tuesday, December 3, 2013 8:53 AM, Bhairitu noozg...@sbcglobal.net wrote: So you were home schooled by Birchers? On 12/02/2013 05:00 PM, Mike Dixon wrote: Snoozguru, you must have been snoozing in your history class. The founding fathers were not put-off on capitalism. They loved it! Their economic system was capitalism based on Laissez-Faire(government hands off business). They wanted no government regulation of business other than to prevent fraud and theft,They didn't like the East India Co. because it was owned or controlled by King George. On Monday, December 2, 2013 4:02 PM, Richard J. Williams mailto:pundits...@gmail.com wrote: Apparently Redbox, like almost all ATMs, work using an old fashioned dial-up connections - you can hear the dialing if you listen real close. There's no way it could be a high-speed Wi-Fi connection on an ATM, otherwise any two-bit hacker could tap into the cash box and get rich, fast. Correct me if I'm wrong about this. On 12/2/2013 4:40 PM, bhairitu wrote: Even returning a disc at Redbox was a bit slow.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Jesuit Trained Pope Trashes Capitalism in Call for Worldwide Socialism
Well your facts are wrong about the founding fathers. Did you know that corporations were limited to a 40 year life span and then they had to be dissolved? They also had to prove to do public good. Santa Clara vs Southern Pacific changed that (another mucking up by the Supremes). On 12/04/2013 06:05 AM, Mike Dixon wrote: No dude, I had a typical public education. I grew up very liberal and anti -capitalist until I got my first job,LOL! My eyes opened and M's teaching began to sink in. I remember Varmaji telling me you are the creator of your own destiny and I started developing a strong sense of personal reponsability, self reliance and independance. About this time I remember the Democrats along with Jimmy Carter telling me they only wanted to help me but I saw them waving a dollar in my face to buy my vote while stealing ten out of my back pocket. Then Ronald Reagan came along. THANK YOU JESUS! On Tuesday, December 3, 2013 8:53 AM, Bhairitu noozg...@sbcglobal.net wrote: So you were home schooled by Birchers? On 12/02/2013 05:00 PM, Mike Dixon wrote: Snoozguru, you must have been snoozing in your history class. The founding fathers were not put-off on capitalism. They loved it! Their economic system was capitalism based on Laissez-Faire(government hands off business). They wanted no government regulation of business other than to prevent fraud and theft,They didn't like the East India Co. because it was owned or controlled by King George. On Monday, December 2, 2013 4:02 PM, Richard J. Williams mailto:pundits...@gmail.com wrote: Apparently Redbox, like almost all ATMs, work using an old fashioned dial-up connections - you can hear the dialing if you listen real close. There's no way it could be a high-speed Wi-Fi connection on an ATM, otherwise any two-bit hacker could tap into the cash box and get rich, fast. Correct me if I'm wrong about this. On 12/2/2013 4:40 PM, bhairitu wrote: Even returning a disc at Redbox was a bit slow.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Jesuit Trained Pope Trashes Capitalism in Call for Worldwide Socialism
--- s3raphita@... wrote: Re Capitalist governments shouldn't be bailing anybody out . . . If the government takes the risk out of the equation by offering a bailout, any fool could run a business and risk everyone's investments in it with no lessons learned.: Precisely my point. You can argue that we should move towards a more Ayn Rand set-up and get governments off our backs. It's states offering bailouts that has encouraged the banks to take idiotic risks. You could argue the opposite though - financial institutions should come under more strenuous oversight from financial regulators with the state limiting bonuses and having a veto on risky investments. It's the current mixed-economy model that isn't fit for purpose. Bankers socialism pisses off everyone. The 'capitalistic political system' is the greatest dogma of the 20th century. The 'socialistic economic system' is the second greatest dogma of the 20th century. A 'capitalistic political system' is tantamount to 'corporate dictatorship'. Atleast, 3% percent of the total budget money should be allocated to political parties as political subsidies. These political subsidies should be distributed to parties on vote proportion basis. This will force political parties to take a more centrist position and prevent extreme fringe ideologies from arising.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Jesuit Trained Pope Trashes Capitalism in Call for Worldwide Socialism
Be specific . What facts did I attribute to founding fathers that were incorrect? On Wednesday, December 4, 2013 9:15 AM, Bhairitu noozg...@sbcglobal.net wrote: Well your facts are wrong about the founding fathers. Did you know that corporations were limited to a 40 year life span and then they had to be dissolved? They also had to prove to do public good. Santa Clara vs Southern Pacific changed that (another mucking up by the Supremes). On 12/04/2013 06:05 AM, Mike Dixon wrote: No dude, I had a typical public education. I grew up very liberal and anti -capitalist until I got my first job,LOL! My eyes opened and M's teaching began to sink in. I remember Varmaji telling me you are the creator of your own destiny and I started developing a strong sense of personal reponsability, self reliance and independance. About this time I remember the Democrats along with Jimmy Carter telling me they only wanted to help me but I saw them waving a dollar in my face to buy my vote while stealing ten out of my back pocket. Then Ronald Reagan came along. THANK YOU JESUS! On Tuesday, December 3, 2013 8:53 AM, Bhairitu mailto:noozg...@sbcglobal.net wrote: So you were home schooled by Birchers? On 12/02/2013 05:00 PM, Mike Dixon wrote: Snoozguru, you must have been snoozing in your history class. The founding fathers were not put-off on capitalism. They loved it! Their economic system was capitalism based on Laissez-Faire(government hands off business). They wanted no government regulation of business other than to prevent fraud and theft,They didn't like the East India Co. because it was owned or controlled by King George. On Monday, December 2, 2013 4:02 PM, Richard J. Williams mailto:pundits...@gmail.com wrote: Apparently Redbox, like almost all ATMs, work using an old fashioned dial-up connections - you can hear the dialing if you listen real close. There's no way it could be a high-speed Wi-Fi connection on an ATM, otherwise any two-bit hacker could tap into the cash box and get rich, fast. Correct me if I'm wrong about this. On 12/2/2013 4:40 PM, bhairitu wrote: Even returning a disc at Redbox was a bit slow.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Jesuit Trained Pope Trashes Capitalism in Call for Worldwide Socialism
And the party that offers the voters the best *bribe* for their vote wins. On Wednesday, December 4, 2013 9:48 AM, Mike Dixon mdixon.6...@yahoo.com wrote: Be specific . What facts did I attribute to founding fathers that were incorrect? On Wednesday, December 4, 2013 9:15 AM, Bhairitu noozg...@sbcglobal.net wrote: Well your facts are wrong about the founding fathers. Did you know that corporations were limited to a 40 year life span and then they had to be dissolved? They also had to prove to do public good. Santa Clara vs Southern Pacific changed that (another mucking up by the Supremes). On 12/04/2013 06:05 AM, Mike Dixon wrote: No dude, I had a typical public education. I grew up very liberal and anti -capitalist until I got my first job,LOL! My eyes opened and M's teaching began to sink in. I remember Varmaji telling me you are the creator of your own destiny and I started developing a strong sense of personal reponsability, self reliance and independance. About this time I remember the Democrats along with Jimmy Carter telling me they only wanted to help me but I saw them waving a dollar in my face to buy my vote while stealing ten out of my back pocket. Then Ronald Reagan came along. THANK YOU JESUS! On Tuesday, December 3, 2013 8:53 AM, Bhairitu mailto:noozg...@sbcglobal.net wrote: So you were home schooled by Birchers? On 12/02/2013 05:00 PM, Mike Dixon wrote: Snoozguru, you must have been snoozing in your history class. The founding fathers were not put-off on capitalism. They loved it! Their economic system was capitalism based on Laissez-Faire(government hands off business). They wanted no government regulation of business other than to prevent fraud and theft,They didn't like the East India Co. because it was owned or controlled by King George. On Monday, December 2, 2013 4:02 PM, Richard J. Williams mailto:pundits...@gmail.com wrote: Apparently Redbox, like almost all ATMs, work using an old fashioned dial-up connections - you can hear the dialing if you listen real close. There's no way it could be a high-speed Wi-Fi connection on an ATM, otherwise any two-bit hacker could tap into the cash box and get rich, fast. Correct me if I'm wrong about this. On 12/2/2013 4:40 PM, bhairitu wrote: Even returning a disc at Redbox was a bit slow.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Jesuit Trained Pope Trashes Capitalism in Call for Worldwide Socialism
Did you bother to look up Santa Clara vs Southern Pacific? That would have given you an education. It is as bad a decision as the recent Supremes giving corporations personhood. I suppose if Republicans bride then it isn't so bad, eh? They don't bother anymore. They just fix the voting results. We need to do away with voting machines or make them all open source. You've been brainwashed by right wing revisionist history. I'm not going to be your history teacher though. On 12/04/2013 09:52 AM, Mike Dixon wrote: And the party that offers the voters the best *bribe* for their vote wins. On Wednesday, December 4, 2013 9:48 AM, Mike Dixon mdixon.6...@yahoo.com wrote: Be specific . What facts did I attribute to founding fathers that were incorrect? On Wednesday, December 4, 2013 9:15 AM, Bhairitu noozg...@sbcglobal.net wrote: Well your facts are wrong about the founding fathers. Did you know that corporations were limited to a 40 year life span and then they had to be dissolved? They also had to prove to do public good. Santa Clara vs Southern Pacific changed that (another mucking up by the Supremes). On 12/04/2013 06:05 AM, Mike Dixon wrote: No dude, I had a typical public education. I grew up very liberal and anti -capitalist until I got my first job,LOL! My eyes opened and M's teaching began to sink in. I remember Varmaji telling me you are the creator of your own destiny and I started developing a strong sense of personal reponsability, self reliance and independance. About this time I remember the Democrats along with Jimmy Carter telling me they only wanted to help me but I saw them waving a dollar in my face to buy my vote while stealing ten out of my back pocket. Then Ronald Reagan came along. THANK YOU JESUS! On Tuesday, December 3, 2013 8:53 AM, Bhairitu mailto:noozg...@sbcglobal.net wrote: So you were home schooled by Birchers? On 12/02/2013 05:00 PM, Mike Dixon wrote: Snoozguru, you must have been snoozing in your history class. The founding fathers were not put-off on capitalism. They loved it! Their economic system was capitalism based on Laissez-Faire(government hands off business). They wanted no government regulation of business other than to prevent fraud and theft,They didn't like the East India Co. because it was owned or controlled by King George. On Monday, December 2, 2013 4:02 PM, Richard J. Williams mailto:pundits...@gmail.com wrote: Apparently Redbox, like almost all ATMs, work using an old fashioned dial-up connections - you can hear the dialing if you listen real close. There's no way it could be a high-speed Wi-Fi connection on an ATM, otherwise any two-bit hacker could tap into the cash box and get rich, fast. Correct me if I'm wrong about this. On 12/2/2013 4:40 PM, bhairitu wrote: Even returning a disc at Redbox was a bit slow.
[FairfieldLife] RE: Jesuit Trained Pope Trashes Capitalism in Call for Worldwide Socialism
Re At least, 3% of the total budget should be allocated to political parties as subsidies.: WTF! I don't want one cent of my money to go to a political party. Let them pay for their own propaganda. Extremist parties wouldn't arise if mainstream parties actually pursued policies that were in the interests of the voters. How hard can it be?
Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: Jesuit Trained Pope Trashes Capitalism in Call for Worldwide Socialism
But noozguru if individuals don't support political parties, doesn't that make it more likely that they'll seek support from special interest groups? In any case, it should be volunteer support. On Wednesday, December 4, 2013 2:31 PM, s3raph...@yahoo.com s3raph...@yahoo.com wrote: Re At least, 3% of the total budget should be allocated to political parties as subsidies.: WTF! I don't want one cent of my money to go to a political party. Let them pay for their own propaganda. Extremist parties wouldn't arise if mainstream parties actually pursued policies that were in the interests of the voters. How hard can it be?
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Jesuit Trained Pope Trashes Capitalism in Call for Worldwide Socialism
Santa Clara vs Southern Pacific , yeah sounds like a case involving our forfathers. LOL. So who heard the case, 9th Circus Court of appeals? Aren't they overturned by the Supreme Court on a regular basis? On Wednesday, December 4, 2013 12:04 PM, Bhairitu noozg...@sbcglobal.net wrote: Did you bother to look up Santa Clara vs Southern Pacific? That would have given you an education. It is as bad a decision as the recent Supremes giving corporations personhood. I suppose if Republicans bride then it isn't so bad, eh? They don't bother anymore. They just fix the voting results. We need to do away with voting machines or make them all open source. You've been brainwashed by right wing revisionist history. I'm not going to be your history teacher though. On 12/04/2013 09:52 AM, Mike Dixon wrote: And the party that offers the voters the best *bribe* for their vote wins. On Wednesday, December 4, 2013 9:48 AM, Mike Dixon mailto:mdixon.6...@yahoo.com wrote: Be specific . What facts did I attribute to founding fathers that were incorrect? On Wednesday, December 4, 2013 9:15 AM, Bhairitu mailto:noozg...@sbcglobal.net wrote: Well your facts are wrong about the founding fathers. Did you know that corporations were limited to a 40 year life span and then they had to be dissolved? They also had to prove to do public good. Santa Clara vs Southern Pacific changed that (another mucking up by the Supremes). On 12/04/2013 06:05 AM, Mike Dixon wrote: No dude, I had a typical public education. I grew up very liberal and anti -capitalist until I got my first job,LOL! My eyes opened and M's teaching began to sink in. I remember Varmaji telling me you are the creator of your own destiny and I started developing a strong sense of personal reponsability, self reliance and independance. About this time I remember the Democrats along with Jimmy Carter telling me they only wanted to help me but I saw them waving a dollar in my face to buy my vote while stealing ten out of my back pocket. Then Ronald Reagan came along. THANK YOU JESUS! On Tuesday, December 3, 2013 8:53 AM, Bhairitu mailto:noozg...@sbcglobal.net wrote: So you were home schooled by Birchers? On 12/02/2013 05:00 PM, Mike Dixon wrote: Snoozguru, you must have been snoozing in your history class. The founding fathers were not put-off on capitalism. They loved it! Their economic system was capitalism based on Laissez-Faire(government hands off business). They wanted no government regulation of business other than to prevent fraud and theft,They didn't like the East India Co. because it was owned or controlled by King George. On Monday, December 2, 2013 4:02 PM, Richard J. Williams mailto:pundits...@gmail.com wrote: Apparently Redbox, like almost all ATMs, work using an old fashioned dial-up connections - you can hear the dialing if you listen real close. There's no way it could be a high-speed Wi-Fi connection on an ATM, otherwise any two-bit hacker could tap into the cash box and get rich, fast. Correct me if I'm wrong about this. On 12/2/2013 4:40 PM, bhairitu wrote: Even returning a disc at Redbox was a bit slow.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Jesuit Trained Pope Trashes Capitalism in Call for Worldwide Socialism
Didn't look it up did ya? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Santa_Clara_County_v._Southern_Pacific_Railroad On 12/04/2013 04:44 PM, Mike Dixon wrote: Santa Clara vs Southern Pacific , yeah sounds like a case involving our forfathers. LOL. So who heard the case, 9th Circus Court of appeals? Aren't they overturned by the Supreme Court on a regular basis? On Wednesday, December 4, 2013 12:04 PM, Bhairitu noozg...@sbcglobal.net wrote: Did you bother to look up Santa Clara vs Southern Pacific? That would have given you an education. It is as bad a decision as the recent Supremes giving corporations personhood. I suppose if Republicans bride then it isn't so bad, eh? They don't bother anymore. They just fix the voting results. We need to do away with voting machines or make them all open source. You've been brainwashed by right wing revisionist history. I'm not going to be your history teacher though. On 12/04/2013 09:52 AM, Mike Dixon wrote: And the party that offers the voters the best *bribe* for their vote wins. On Wednesday, December 4, 2013 9:48 AM, Mike Dixon mailto:mdixon.6...@yahoo.com wrote: Be specific . What facts did I attribute to founding fathers that were incorrect? On Wednesday, December 4, 2013 9:15 AM, Bhairitu mailto:noozg...@sbcglobal.net wrote: Well your facts are wrong about the founding fathers. Did you know that corporations were limited to a 40 year life span and then they had to be dissolved? They also had to prove to do public good. Santa Clara vs Southern Pacific changed that (another mucking up by the Supremes). On 12/04/2013 06:05 AM, Mike Dixon wrote: No dude, I had a typical public education. I grew up very liberal and anti -capitalist until I got my first job,LOL! My eyes opened and M's teaching began to sink in. I remember Varmaji telling me you are the creator of your own destiny and I started developing a strong sense of personal reponsability, self reliance and independance. About this time I remember the Democrats along with Jimmy Carter telling me they only wanted to help me but I saw them waving a dollar in my face to buy my vote while stealing ten out of my back pocket. Then Ronald Reagan came along. THANK YOU JESUS! On Tuesday, December 3, 2013 8:53 AM, Bhairitu mailto:noozg...@sbcglobal.net wrote: So you were home schooled by Birchers? On 12/02/2013 05:00 PM, Mike Dixon wrote: Snoozguru, you must have been snoozing in your history class. The founding fathers were not put-off on capitalism. They loved it! Their economic system was capitalism based on Laissez-Faire(government hands off business). They wanted no government regulation of business other than to prevent fraud and theft,They didn't like the East India Co. because it was owned or controlled by King George. On Monday, December 2, 2013 4:02 PM, Richard J. Williams mailto:pundits...@gmail.com wrote: Apparently Redbox, like almost all ATMs, work using an old fashioned dial-up connections - you can hear the dialing if you listen real close. There's no way it could be a high-speed Wi-Fi connection on an ATM, otherwise any two-bit hacker could tap into the cash box and get rich, fast. Correct me if I'm wrong about this. On 12/2/2013 4:40 PM, bhairitu wrote: Even returning a disc at Redbox was a bit slow.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Jesuit Trained Pope Trashes Capitalism in Call for Worldwide Socialism
So you were home schooled by Birchers? On 12/02/2013 05:00 PM, Mike Dixon wrote: Snoozguru, you must have been snoozing in your history class. The founding fathers were not put-off on capitalism. They loved it! Their economic system was capitalism based on Laissez-Faire(government hands off business). They wanted no government regulation of business other than to prevent fraud and theft,They didn't like the East India Co. because it was owned or controlled by King George. On Monday, December 2, 2013 4:02 PM, Richard J. Williams pundits...@gmail.com wrote: Apparently Redbox, like almost all ATMs, work using an old fashioned dial-up connections - you can hear the dialing if you listen real close. There's no way it could be a high-speed Wi-Fi connection on an ATM, otherwise any two-bit hacker could tap into the cash box and get rich, fast. Correct me if I'm wrong about this. On 12/2/2013 4:40 PM, bhairitu wrote: Even returning a disc at Redbox was a bit slow.
[FairfieldLife] RE: Jesuit Trained Pope Trashes Capitalism in Call for Worldwide Socialism
Re Capitalist governments shouldn't be bailing anybody out . . . If the government takes the risk out of the equation by offering a bailout, any fool could run a business and risk everyone's investments in it with no lessons learned.: Precisely my point. You can argue that we should move towards a more Ayn Rand set-up and get governments off our backs. It's states offering bailouts that has encouraged the banks to take idiotic risks. You could argue the opposite though - financial institutions should come under more strenuous oversight from financial regulators with the state limiting bonuses and having a veto on risky investments. It's the current mixed-economy model that isn't fit for purpose. Bankers socialism pisses off everyone.
Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: Jesuit Trained Pope Trashes Capitalism in Call for Worldwide Socialism
That 17 trillion national debt comes mainly from socialistic programs, not capitalism. Was it Margaret Thatcher that said The problem with socialism is, sooner or later, you run out of other peoples money to spend. American politicians have over- spent the wealth capitalism has produced in order to get re-elected. On Sunday, December 1, 2013 7:33 PM, s3raph...@yahoo.com s3raph...@yahoo.com wrote: ReAmerican capitalism has created more wealth than any other economic system and with that wealth has lifted more people out of poverty than any other system.: That is undeniably true. The problem is that you (Yanks) now have debt equal to $17 trillion. There is no way you can pay that debt off; there is no way you can deliberately introduce controlled inflation to devalue the sum. You are at the mercy of the international financial system. Income inequality in both the US and UK is now at levels not seen since the early decades of the 20th century. The real villain is globalisation. Companies can run rings around national governments as they have branches in many countries and can avoid tax in all places except the one country that offers them the lowest rates. It's a nightmare and these multinationals are effectively outside any democratic control. ---In fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com, noozguru@... wrote: That is revisionist history, Mike. The original founding fathers had a bad taste in their mouth from capitalism in the form of the British East India Company. The founding fathers believed in a commons. You maintain the commons with government. That's what government is for. It's for the things we all share. And if we don't want homeless living in our commons then were need to do things to keep people from becoming homeless. A lot of today's homeless are not there because they don't want to work but because there is no work or means of income for them. I have a revision of that Luke 19 thang you referenced. The third guy didn't spend the money his boss gave him because the other two guys invested in derivatives and were about to lose all that profit. He would still have money. :-D On 12/01/2013 05:53 AM, Mike Dixon wrote: Yet *trickle down* capitalism has been the story of America since it's inception. American capitalism has created more wealth than any other economic system and with that wealth has lifted more people out of poverty than any other system and come to the aid of those in dire straights to lift them up as well. Would the middle -east, China or India be in the economic situation they are in today had it not been for Americans spending their wealth, investing in and buying their goods and services ? Capitalism creates wealth, socialism just divides it up. You can't be charitable if you have nothing to give. The Pope may be compassionate, but he's down right ignorant.
[FairfieldLife] RE: Jesuit Trained Pope Trashes Capitalism in Call for Worldwide Socialism
Re That 17 trillion national debt comes mainly from socialistic programs, not capitalism. American politicians have over-spent the wealth capitalism has produced in order to get re-elected.: That's all true. (It's the same in UK.) But what's also true is that the old-school opponents who wanted either socialism or conservatism never anticipated today's world where multinational corporations rule the roost. In the past both those on the left and those on the right assumed governments held the whip hand. ---In fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com, mdixon.6569@... wrote: That 17 trillion national debt comes mainly from socialistic programs, not capitalism. Was it Margaret Thatcher that said The problem with socialism is, sooner or later, you run out of other peoples money to spend. American politicians have over- spent the wealth capitalism has produced in order to get re-elected. On Sunday, December 1, 2013 7:33 PM, s3raphita@... s3raphita@... wrote: Re American capitalism has created more wealth than any other economic system and with that wealth has lifted more people out of poverty than any other system.: That is undeniably true. The problem is that you (Yanks) now have debt equal to $17 trillion. There is no way you can pay that debt off; there is no way you can deliberately introduce controlled inflation to devalue the sum. You are at the mercy of the international financial system. Income inequality in both the US and UK is now at levels not seen since the early decades of the 20th century. The real villain is globalisation. Companies can run rings around national governments as they have branches in many countries and can avoid tax in all places except the one country that offers them the lowest rates. It's a nightmare and these multinationals are effectively outside any democratic control. ---In fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com, noozguru@... wrote: That is revisionist history, Mike. The original founding fathers had a bad taste in their mouth from capitalism in the form of the British East India Company. The founding fathers believed in a commons. You maintain the commons with government. That's what government is for. It's for the things we all share. And if we don't want homeless living in our commons then were need to do things to keep people from becoming homeless. A lot of today's homeless are not there because they don't want to work but because there is no work or means of income for them. I have a revision of that Luke 19 thang you referenced. The third guy didn't spend the money his boss gave him because the other two guys invested in derivatives and were about to lose all that profit. He would still have money. :-D On 12/01/2013 05:53 AM, Mike Dixon wrote: Yet *trickle down* capitalism has been the story of America since it's inception. American capitalism has created more wealth than any other economic system and with that wealth has lifted more people out of poverty than any other system and come to the aid of those in dire straights to lift them up as well. Would the middle -east, China or India be in the economic situation they are in today had it not been for Americans spending their wealth, investing in and buying their goods and services ? Capitalism creates wealth, socialism just divides it up. You can't be charitable if you have nothing to give. The Pope may be compassionate, but he's down right ignorant.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Jesuit Trained Pope Trashes Capitalism in Call for Worldwide Socialism
Socialist programs such as bailing out the big banks or wars of empire to protect American (corporate) interests? Wanna buy a bridge, Mike? I don't know if the fascist Margaret Thatcher said that but the rich found it to be true especially after they had robbed most of the middle class of their money. I'll agree that Congress is drunk on spending just to get re-elected. Career politicians are obsolete and need to be deprecated. BTW, the Internet seems to be wanky today due to Cyber Monday. Even returning a disc at Redbox was a bit slow. One of my email accounts doesn't seem to be getting the message to put the read messages in trash while the email account I use for here is late in delivery and putting the FFL emails in the trash bin even though they hadn't been downloaded! --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Mike Dixon mdixon.6569@... wrote: That 17 trillion national debt comes mainly from socialistic programs, not capitalism. Was it Margaret Thatcher that said The problem with socialism is, sooner or later, you run out of other peoples money to spend. American politicians have over- spent the wealth capitalism has produced in order to get re-elected. On Sunday, December 1, 2013 7:33 PM, s3raphita@... s3raphita@... wrote:  ReAmerican capitalism has created more wealth than any other economic system and with that wealth has lifted more people out of poverty than any other system.: That is undeniably true. The problem is that you (Yanks) now have debt equal to $17 trillion. There is no way you can pay that debt off; there is no way you can deliberately introduce controlled inflation to devalue the sum. You are at the mercy of the international financial system. Income inequality in both the US and UK is now at levels not seen since the early decades of the 20th century. The real villain is globalisation. Companies can run rings around national governments as they have branches in many countries and can avoid tax in all places except the one country that offers them the lowest rates. It's a nightmare and these multinationals are effectively outside any democratic control.  ---In fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com, noozguru@ wrote: That is revisionist history, Mike. The original founding fathers had a bad taste in their mouth from capitalism in the form of the British East India Company. The founding fathers believed in a commons. You maintain the commons with government. That's what government is for. It's for the things we all share. And if we don't want homeless living in our commons then were need to do things to keep people from becoming homeless. A lot of today's homeless are not there because they don't want to work but because there is no work or means of income for them. I have a revision of that Luke 19 thang you referenced. The third guy didn't spend the money his boss gave him because the other two guys invested in derivatives and were about to lose all that profit. He would still have money. :-D On 12/01/2013 05:53 AM, Mike Dixon wrote:  Yet *trickle down* capitalism has been the story of America since it's inception. American capitalism has created more wealth than any other economic system and with that wealth has lifted more people out of poverty than any other system and come to the aid of those in dire straights to lift them up as well. Would the middle -east, China or India be in the economic situation they are in today had it not been for Americans spending their wealth, investing in and buying their goods and services ? Capitalism creates wealth, socialism just divides it up. You can't be charitable if you have nothing to give. The Pope may be compassionate, but he's down right ignorant.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Jesuit Trained Pope Trashes Capitalism in Call for Worldwide Socialism
Apparently Redbox, like almost all ATMs, work using an old fashioned dial-up connections - you can hear the dialing if you listen real close. There's no way it could be a high-speed Wi-Fi connection on an ATM, otherwise any two-bit hacker could tap into the cash box and get rich, fast. Correct me if I'm wrong about this. On 12/2/2013 4:40 PM, bhairitu wrote: Even returning a disc at Redbox was a bit slow.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Jesuit Trained Pope Trashes Capitalism in Call for Worldwide Socialism
Snoozguru, you must have been snoozing in your history class. The founding fathers were not put-off on capitalism. They loved it! Their economic system was capitalism based on Laissez-Faire(government hands off business). They wanted no government regulation of business other than to prevent fraud and theft,They didn't like the East India Co. because it was owned or controlled by King George. On Monday, December 2, 2013 4:02 PM, Richard J. Williams pundits...@gmail.com wrote: Apparently Redbox, like almost all ATMs, work using an old fashioned dial-up connections - you can hear the dialing if you listen real close. There's no way it could be a high-speed Wi-Fi connection on an ATM, otherwise any two-bit hacker could tap into the cash box and get rich, fast. Correct me if I'm wrong about this. On 12/2/2013 4:40 PM, bhairitu wrote: Even returning a disc at Redbox was a bit slow.
[FairfieldLife] RE: Jesuit Trained Pope Trashes Capitalism in Call for Worldwide Socialism
Re Socialist programs such as bailing out the big banks: Bailing out failing businesses isn't capitalism red in tooth and claw! It was the Labour government in the UK that bailed out the banks over here. Here's the thing: when facing bankruptcy, the head of Lehmann's in the US went to the state to ask for a bailout and was thunderstruck when his request was denied. But in cut-throat capitalism you don't bail out failing businesses. Why did he expect to be bailed out? Because what we have now in the West is crony capitalism and corporatism where the politicians and finance leaders have cozied up to each other. ---In fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com, noozguru@... wrote: Socialist programs such as bailing out the big banks or wars of empire to protect American (corporate) interests? Wanna buy a bridge, Mike? I don't know if the fascist Margaret Thatcher said that but the rich found it to be true especially after they had robbed most of the middle class of their money. I'll agree that Congress is drunk on spending just to get re-elected. Career politicians are obsolete and need to be deprecated. BTW, the Internet seems to be wanky today due to Cyber Monday. Even returning a disc at Redbox was a bit slow. One of my email accounts doesn't seem to be getting the message to put the read messages in trash while the email account I use for here is late in delivery and putting the FFL emails in the trash bin even though they hadn't been downloaded! --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Mike Dixon mdixon.6569@... wrote: That 17 trillion national debt comes mainly from socialistic programs, not capitalism. Was it Margaret Thatcher that said The problem with socialism is, sooner or later, you run out of other peoples money to spend. American politicians have over- spent the wealth capitalism has produced in order to get re-elected. On Sunday, December 1, 2013 7:33 PM, s3raphita@... s3raphita@... wrote:  ReAmerican capitalism has created more wealth than any other economic system and with that wealth has lifted more people out of poverty than any other system.: That is undeniably true. The problem is that you (Yanks) now have debt equal to $17 trillion. There is no way you can pay that debt off; there is no way you can deliberately introduce controlled inflation to devalue the sum. You are at the mercy of the international financial system. Income inequality in both the US and UK is now at levels not seen since the early decades of the 20th century. The real villain is globalisation. Companies can run rings around national governments as they have branches in many countries and can avoid tax in all places except the one country that offers them the lowest rates. It's a nightmare and these multinationals are effectively outside any democratic control.  ---In fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com mailto:fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com, noozguru@ wrote: That is revisionist history, Mike. The original founding fathers had a bad taste in their mouth from capitalism in the form of the British East India Company. The founding fathers believed in a commons. You maintain the commons with government. That's what government is for. It's for the things we all share. And if we don't want homeless living in our commons then were need to do things to keep people from becoming homeless. A lot of today's homeless are not there because they don't want to work but because there is no work or means of income for them. I have a revision of that Luke 19 thang you referenced. The third guy didn't spend the money his boss gave him because the other two guys invested in derivatives and were about to lose all that profit. He would still have money. :-D On 12/01/2013 05:53 AM, Mike Dixon wrote:  Yet *trickle down* capitalism has been the story of America since it's inception. American capitalism has created more wealth than any other economic system and with that wealth has lifted more people out of poverty than any other system and come to the aid of those in dire straights to lift them up as well. Would the middle -east, China or India be in the economic situation they are in today had it not been for Americans spending their wealth, investing in and buying their goods and services ? Capitalism creates wealth, socialism just divides it up. You can't be charitable if you have nothing to give. The Pope may be compassionate, but he's down right ignorant.
[FairfieldLife] RE: Jesuit Trained Pope Trashes Capitalism in Call for Worldwide Socialism
If you read the document that Pope Francis wrote, there is none of the exclusionary language that you refer to, in it. He specifically warns against that, and many other ways to become falsely pious. He refers to capitalism, the monetization of anything and everything, as dehumanizing. I agree - As a great example of the failure of pissing down economics, as I call it, there is an unbelievable amount of wealth where I live, in the SF Bay Area - real estate prices are completely crazy, as one result. If the theory of largesse worked, I would not encounter people begging at every freeway off-ramp - there wouldn't be the same guy at the supermarket asking me for money for the past five years, and there sure wouldn't be the ARMY of homeless people in San Francisco, where a 700 square foot apartment rents for $4000/mo. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, emptybill@... wrote: Who could imagine ... Bhari2 and EmilyMaybeNot should now be satisfied. Trouble is Bhari2 is a Tantrika. So the Holy Father and the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith will require him to repent his Hindoo errors. Repent now and profess the truth! ... You didn't make that!. Convert now to the true faith. Admit that you are not God but are the God-damned. http://www.infowars.com/jesuit-trained-pope-trashes-capitalism-in-call-for-worldwide-socialism/ http://www.infowars.com/jesuit-trained-pope-trashes-capitalism-in-call-for-worldwide-socialism/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Jesuit Trained Pope Trashes Capitalism in Call for Worldwide Socialism
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctordumbass@... wrote: If you read the document that Pope Francis wrote, there is none of the exclusionary language that you refer to, in it. He specifically warns against that, and many other ways to become falsely pious. He refers to capitalism, the monetization of anything and everything, as dehumanizing. I agree - As a great example of the failure of pissing down economics, as I call it, there is an unbelievable amount of wealth where I live, in the SF Bay Area - real estate prices are completely crazy, as one result. If the theory of largesse worked, I would not encounter people begging at every freeway off-ramp - there wouldn't be the same guy at the supermarket asking me for money for the past five years, and there sure wouldn't be the ARMY of homeless people in San Francisco, where a 700 square foot apartment rents for $4000/mo. Yellow rain golden shower pesticide firepower Summon feudal demons of sweatshop subjugation - Bruce Cockburn, Trickle Down, March 2001 Couldn't find a video, but the audio played for me here: http://val.fm/trickle-down-bruce-cockburn-mp3/ http://val.fm/trickle-down-bruce-cockburn-mp3/ Lyrics here: Picture on magazine boardroom pop star Pinstripe prophet of peckerhead greed You say 'Trust me with the money -- the keys to the universe' Trickle down will give us everything we need Brand new century private penitentiary bank vault utopia padded for the few And it's tumours for the masses coughing for the masses Earphones for the masses and they all serve you Trickle down give /em the business Trickle down supposed to give us the goods Cups held out to catch a bit of the bounty Trickle down everywhere trickle down blood What used to pass for education now looks more like ignoration Take the people's money and slip it to the corporation Yellow rain golden shower pesticide firepower Summon feudal demons of sweatshop subjugation Workfare foul air homeless beggars everywhere Picturephone aristocrats lounge around the pool Captains of industry smiling beneficently Leaking hole supertanker ship of fools Trickle down give me the business Trickle down supposed to give us the goods Cups held out to catch a bit of the bounty Trickle down everywhere trickle down blood Take over takedown big bucks shakedown Schoolyard pusher offer anything-for-profit First got to privatize then you get to piratize Hooked on avarice - how do we get off it? Trickle down give me the business Trickle down supposed to give us the goods Cups held out to catch a bit of the bounty Trickle down everywhere trickle down blood Trickle down give me the business Trickle down supposed to give us the goods Cups held out to catch a bit of the bounty Trickle down everywhere trickle down blood Trickle down
[FairfieldLife] RE: Jesuit Trained Pope Trashes Capitalism in Call for Worldwide Socialism
Re American capitalism has created more wealth than any other economic system and with that wealth has lifted more people out of poverty than any other system.: That is undeniably true. The problem is that you (Yanks) now have debt equal to $17 trillion. There is no way you can pay that debt off; there is no way you can deliberately introduce controlled inflation to devalue the sum. You are at the mercy of the international financial system. Income inequality in both the US and UK is now at levels not seen since the early decades of the 20th century. The real villain is globalisation. Companies can run rings around national governments as they have branches in many countries and can avoid tax in all places except the one country that offers them the lowest rates. It's a nightmare and these multinationals are effectively outside any democratic control. ---In fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com, noozguru@... wrote: That is revisionist history, Mike. The original founding fathers had a bad taste in their mouth from capitalism in the form of the British East India Company. The founding fathers believed in a commons. You maintain the commons with government. That's what government is for. It's for the things we all share. And if we don't want homeless living in our commons then were need to do things to keep people from becoming homeless. A lot of today's homeless are not there because they don't want to work but because there is no work or means of income for them. I have a revision of that Luke 19 thang you referenced. The third guy didn't spend the money his boss gave him because the other two guys invested in derivatives and were about to lose all that profit. He would still have money. :-D On 12/01/2013 05:53 AM, Mike Dixon wrote: Yet *trickle down* capitalism has been the story of America since it's inception. American capitalism has created more wealth than any other economic system and with that wealth has lifted more people out of poverty than any other system and come to the aid of those in dire straights to lift them up as well. Would the middle -east, China or India be in the economic situation they are in today had it not been for Americans spending their wealth, investing in and buying their goods and services ? Capitalism creates wealth, socialism just divides it up. You can't be charitable if you have nothing to give. The Pope may be compassionate, but he's down right ignorant.
[FairfieldLife] RE: Jesuit Trained Pope Trashes Capitalism in Call for Worldwide Socialism
Email HIM. Offer to evangelize the Tantrika-s. Maybe he'll offer to make you a socialist proselyte and then, if you are successful, a bishop. ---In fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com, noozguru@... wrote: BTW, those folks over on Infowars have a tendency to contradict themselves. They were talking about the riots at stores Thanksgiving Evening and saying that individualism would prevent that. WRONG. In fact much of the dialectic on Infowars is for the we people. They like to point to the BBC documentary Century of the Self which is about how the me society was created and how destructive it has been. And you can't have much of a revolution with a bunch of me people. They also thought that if the crowd would be this bad over cheap goods how much worse would they be fighting over food? Hurricane Sandy rather disproved that. That crowd is often a group out of sync with themselves. On 11/30/2013 02:50 PM, emptybill@... mailto:emptybill@... wrote: Who could imagine ... Bhari2 and EmilyMaybeNot should now be satisfied. Trouble is Bhari2 is a Tantrika. So the Holy Father and the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith will require him to repent his Hindoo errors. Repent now and profess the truth! ... You didn't make that!. Convert now to the true faith. Admit that you are not God but are the God-damned. http://www.infowars.com/jesuit-trained-pope-trashes-capitalism-in-call-for-worldwide-socialism/ http://www.infowars.com/jesuit-trained-pope-trashes-capitalism-in-call-for-worldwide-socialism/
[FairfieldLife] RE: Jesuit Trained Pope Trashes Capitalism in Call for Worldwide Socialism
The Pope said “some people continue to defend trickle-down theories which assume that economic growth, encouraged by a free market, will inevitably succeed in bringing about greater justice and inclusiveness in the world. This opinion, which has never been confirmed by the facts, expresses a crude and naïve trust in the goodness of those wielding economic power. So is the Pope now an expert on economics (the dismal science)? Trickle-down theories could be wrong - but they could be right. It is surely possible to be a pious Christian and either support or oppose socialism. When popes claim that one or the other side is right they get dangerously close to claiming that supporters of the side they oppose are not true Christians - and so not saved. Jesus would be turning in His grave - if He hadn't risen. ---In fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com, emptybill@... wrote: Email HIM. Offer to evangelize the Tantrika-s. Maybe he'll offer to make you a socialist proselyte and then, if you are successful, a bishop. ---In fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com, noozguru@... wrote: BTW, those folks over on Infowars have a tendency to contradict themselves. They were talking about the riots at stores Thanksgiving Evening and saying that individualism would prevent that. WRONG. In fact much of the dialectic on Infowars is for the we people. They like to point to the BBC documentary Century of the Self which is about how the me society was created and how destructive it has been. And you can't have much of a revolution with a bunch of me people. They also thought that if the crowd would be this bad over cheap goods how much worse would they be fighting over food? Hurricane Sandy rather disproved that. That crowd is often a group out of sync with themselves. On 11/30/2013 02:50 PM, emptybill@... mailto:emptybill@... wrote: Who could imagine ... Bhari2 and EmilyMaybeNot should now be satisfied. Trouble is Bhari2 is a Tantrika. So the Holy Father and the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith will require him to repent his Hindoo errors. Repent now and profess the truth! ... You didn't make that!. Convert now to the true faith. Admit that you are not God but are the God-damned. http://www.infowars.com/jesuit-trained-pope-trashes-capitalism-in-call-for-worldwide-socialism/ http://www.infowars.com/jesuit-trained-pope-trashes-capitalism-in-call-for-worldwide-socialism/
Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: Jesuit Trained Pope Trashes Capitalism in Call for Worldwide Socialism
We've all seen the wonders of trickle down economics. It's why the rich call us peons. On 11/30/2013 06:00 PM, s3raph...@yahoo.com wrote: The Pope said “some people continue to defend trickle-down theories which assume that economic growth, encouraged by a free market, will inevitably succeed in bringing about greater justice and inclusiveness in the world. This opinion, which has never been confirmed by the facts, expresses a crude and naïve trust in the goodness of those wielding economic power. So is the Pope now an expert on economics (the dismal science)? Trickle-down theories could be wrong - but they could be right. It is surely possible to be a pious Christian and either support or oppose socialism. When popes claim that one or the other side is right they get dangerously close to claiming that supporters of the side they oppose are not true Christians - and so not saved. Jesus would be turning in His grave - if He hadn't risen. ---In fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com, emptybill@... wrote: Email HIM. Offer to evangelize the Tantrika-s. Maybe he'll offer to make you a socialist proselyte and then, if you are successful, a bishop. ---In fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com, noozguru@... wrote: BTW, those folks over on Infowars have a tendency to contradict themselves. They were talking about the riots at stores Thanksgiving Evening and saying that individualism would prevent that. WRONG. In fact much of the dialectic on Infowars is for the we people. They like to point to the BBC documentary Century of the Self which is about how the me society was created and how destructive it has been. And you can't have much of a revolution with a bunch of me people. They also thought that if the crowd would be this bad over cheap goods how much worse would they be fighting over food? Hurricane Sandy rather disproved that. That crowd is often a group out of sync with themselves. On 11/30/2013 02:50 PM, emptybill@... mailto:emptybill@... wrote: Who could imagine ... Bhari2 and EmilyMaybeNot should now be satisfied. Trouble is Bhari2 is a Tantrika. So the Holy Father and the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith will require him to repent his Hindoo errors. Repent now and profess the truth! ... You didn't make that!. Convert now to the true faith. Admit that you are not God but are the God-damned. http://www.infowars.com/jesuit-trained-pope-trashes-capitalism-in-call-for-worldwide-socialism/
[FairfieldLife] RE: Jesuit Trained Pope Trashes Capitalism in Call for Worldwide Socialism
We already know about trickle-down socialism and trickle-down salvation - how about trickle-down transcendence? ---In fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com, noozguru@... wrote: We've all seen the wonders of trickle down economics. It's why the rich call us peons. On 11/30/2013 06:00 PM, s3raphita@... mailto:s3raphita@... wrote: The Pope said “some people continue to defend trickle-down theories which assume that economic growth, encouraged by a free market, will inevitably succeed in bringing about greater justice and inclusiveness in the world. This opinion, which has never been confirmed by the facts, expresses a crude and naïve trust in the goodness of those wielding economic power. So is the Pope now an expert on economics (the dismal science)? Trickle-down theories could be wrong - but they could be right. It is surely possible to be a pious Christian and either support or oppose socialism. When popes claim that one or the other side is right they get dangerously close to claiming that supporters of the side they oppose are not true Christians - and so not saved. Jesus would be turning in His grave - if He hadn't risen. ---In fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com mailto:fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com, emptybill@... mailto:emptybill@... wrote: Email HIM. Offer to evangelize the Tantrika-s. Maybe he'll offer to make you a socialist proselyte and then, if you are successful, a bishop. ---In fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com mailto:fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com, noozguru@... mailto:noozguru@... wrote: BTW, those folks over on Infowars have a tendency to contradict themselves. They were talking about the riots at stores Thanksgiving Evening and saying that individualism would prevent that. WRONG. In fact much of the dialectic on Infowars is for the we people. They like to point to the BBC documentary Century of the Self which is about how the me society was created and how destructive it has been. And you can't have much of a revolution with a bunch of me people. They also thought that if the crowd would be this bad over cheap goods how much worse would they be fighting over food? Hurricane Sandy rather disproved that. That crowd is often a group out of sync with themselves. On 11/30/2013 02:50 PM, emptybill@... mailto:emptybill@... wrote: Who could imagine ... Bhari2 and EmilyMaybeNot should now be satisfied. Trouble is Bhari2 is a Tantrika. So the Holy Father and the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith will require him to repent his Hindoo errors. Repent now and profess the truth! ... You didn't make that!. Convert now to the true faith. Admit that you are not God but are the God-damned. http://www.infowars.com/jesuit-trained-pope-trashes-capitalism-in-call-for-worldwide-socialism/ http://www.infowars.com/jesuit-trained-pope-trashes-capitalism-in-call-for-worldwide-socialism/
[FairfieldLife] RE: Jesuit Trained Pope Trashes Capitalism in Call for Worldwide Socialism
We've all seen the wonders of trickle down economics. It's why the rich call us peons. Yes, I'm an eat-the-rich type myself. But what's that got to do with Religion? Salvation? Enlightenment? Religion is more important than economics. It transcends economics. You'd have thought a pope would understand the importance of hierarchies. ---In fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com, noozguru@... wrote: We've all seen the wonders of trickle down economics. It's why the rich call us peons. On 11/30/2013 06:00 PM, s3raphita@... mailto:s3raphita@... wrote: The Pope said “some people continue to defend trickle-down theories which assume that economic growth, encouraged by a free market, will inevitably succeed in bringing about greater justice and inclusiveness in the world. This opinion, which has never been confirmed by the facts, expresses a crude and naïve trust in the goodness of those wielding economic power. So is the Pope now an expert on economics (the dismal science)? Trickle-down theories could be wrong - but they could be right. It is surely possible to be a pious Christian and either support or oppose socialism. When popes claim that one or the other side is right they get dangerously close to claiming that supporters of the side they oppose are not true Christians - and so not saved. Jesus would be turning in His grave - if He hadn't risen. ---In fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com mailto:fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com, emptybill@... mailto:emptybill@... wrote: Email HIM. Offer to evangelize the Tantrika-s. Maybe he'll offer to make you a socialist proselyte and then, if you are successful, a bishop. ---In fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com mailto:fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com, noozguru@... mailto:noozguru@... wrote: BTW, those folks over on Infowars have a tendency to contradict themselves. They were talking about the riots at stores Thanksgiving Evening and saying that individualism would prevent that. WRONG. In fact much of the dialectic on Infowars is for the we people. They like to point to the BBC documentary Century of the Self which is about how the me society was created and how destructive it has been. And you can't have much of a revolution with a bunch of me people. They also thought that if the crowd would be this bad over cheap goods how much worse would they be fighting over food? Hurricane Sandy rather disproved that. That crowd is often a group out of sync with themselves. On 11/30/2013 02:50 PM, emptybill@... mailto:emptybill@... wrote: Who could imagine ... Bhari2 and EmilyMaybeNot should now be satisfied. Trouble is Bhari2 is a Tantrika. So the Holy Father and the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith will require him to repent his Hindoo errors. Repent now and profess the truth! ... You didn't make that!. Convert now to the true faith. Admit that you are not God but are the God-damned. http://www.infowars.com/jesuit-trained-pope-trashes-capitalism-in-call-for-worldwide-socialism/ http://www.infowars.com/jesuit-trained-pope-trashes-capitalism-in-call-for-worldwide-socialism/
[FairfieldLife] RE: Jesuit Trained Pope Trashes Capitalism in Call for Worldwide Socialism
Re And I could cite a busload of Jesus' expressions of concern for the poor and oppressed. Plus one in particular about how hard it is for the rich person to get into Heaven.: I'm with him on the rich! Some things never change. But Jesus was a first-century rabbi so could have no idea of the later development of industrialisation, capitalism, welfare states and globalisation. It is as ridiculous to wonder what a first-century person would decide pro or anti socialism as it is to wonder what a first-century person would decide on which car to buy, or if a first-century person would prefer Copernican or pre-Copernican astronomy. For Christ's sake - he didn't even know he was living in the first century! ;-) ---In fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend@... wrote: Sounds to me as if he's an expert in human nature. And I could cite a busload of Jesus' expressions of concern for the poor and oppressed. Plus one in particular about how hard it is for the rich person to get into Heaven. I don't think you've got a winner of an argument here, Seraphita. Seraphita wrote: The Pope said “some people continue to defend trickle-down theories which assume that economic growth, encouraged by a free market, will inevitably succeed in bringing about greater justice and inclusiveness in the world. This opinion, which has never been confirmed by the facts, expresses a crude and naïve trust in the goodness of those wielding economic power. So is the Pope now an expert on economics (the dismal science)? Trickle-down theories could be wrong - but they could be right. It is surely possible to be a pious Christian and either support or oppose socialism. When popes claim that one or the other side is right they get dangerously close to claiming that supporters of the side they oppose are not true Christians - and so not saved. Jesus would be turning in His grave - if He hadn't risen. ---In fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com, emptybill@... wrote: Email HIM. Offer to evangelize the Tantrika-s. Maybe he'll offer to make you a socialist proselyte and then, if you are successful, a bishop. ---In fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com, noozguru@... wrote: BTW, those folks over on Infowars have a tendency to contradict themselves. They were talking about the riots at stores Thanksgiving Evening and saying that individualism would prevent that. WRONG. In fact much of the dialectic on Infowars is for the we people. They like to point to the BBC documentary Century of the Self which is about how the me society was created and how destructive it has been. And you can't have much of a revolution with a bunch of me people. They also thought that if the crowd would be this bad over cheap goods how much worse would they be fighting over food? Hurricane Sandy rather disproved that. That crowd is often a group out of sync with themselves. On 11/30/2013 02:50 PM, emptybill@... mailto:emptybill@... wrote: Who could imagine ... Bhari2 and EmilyMaybeNot should now be satisfied. Trouble is Bhari2 is a Tantrika. So the Holy Father and the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith will require him to repent his Hindoo errors. Repent now and profess the truth! ... You didn't make that!. Convert now to the true faith. Admit that you are not God but are the God-damned. http://www.infowars.com/jesuit-trained-pope-trashes-capitalism-in-call-for-worldwide-socialism/ http://www.infowars.com/jesuit-trained-pope-trashes-capitalism-in-call-for-worldwide-socialism/
[FairfieldLife] RE: Jesuit Trained Pope Trashes Capitalism in Call for Worldwide Socialism
No...I'm not Catholic. But I don't reject all things Catholic either. I think trickle-down economics is a con best summed up by if you believe that, I've got a bridge in Brooklyn to sell you. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, emptybill@... wrote: Who could imagine ... Bhari2 and EmilyMaybeNot should now be satisfied. Trouble is Bhari2 is a Tantrika. So the Holy Father and the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith will require him to repent his Hindoo errors. Repent now and profess the truth! ... You didn't make that!. Convert now to the true faith. Admit that you are not God but are the God-damned. http://www.infowars.com/jesuit-trained-pope-trashes-capitalism-in-call-for-worldwide-socialism/ http://www.infowars.com/jesuit-trained-pope-trashes-capitalism-in-call-for-worldwide-socialism/
[FairfieldLife] RE: Jesuit Trained Pope Trashes Capitalism in Call for Worldwide Socialism
Re The Pope doesn't need a Ph.D. in economics to make use of that information.: Unfortunately he does! Look, this from Wiki: Singapore has a market-based economy - one of the freest and most business-friendly. According to the Corruption Perceptions Index, Singapore is consistently ranked as one of the least-corrupt countries in the world, along with New Zealand and the Scandinavian countries. Singapore has the lowest infant mortality rate in the world for the past two decades. Life expectancy in Singapore is 80 for males and 85 for females, placing the country 4th in the world for life expectancy. Almost the whole population has access to improved water and sanitation facilities. There are fewer than 10 annual deaths from HIV per 100,000 people. Adult obesity is below 10%. Surely to God it's at least *possible* that a let-it-rip capitalist model could bring greater benefits to the populace than a top-down state-controlled economy? If it's possible then it's not unreasonable for people to push for a such a system without them necessarily being greedy rich pigs. And so without them necessarily being on the side of the Antichrist. Keep religion free from dogmatic economic positions seems a sensible approach to me. ---In fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend@... wrote: Well, but the principles don't change. A poor person is a poor person is a poor person no matter what century they live in or under what kind of economic system. Nobody's suggesting Jesus was preaching socialism qua socialism or against capitalism qua capitalism. That's a red herring. He was preaching in favor of generosity and against selfish greed. The point is to relieve poverty no matter what the cause. These days, the cause tends to be the greed of the masters of the capitalist system. Sounds like the pope has been reading (Nobel Prize-winning economist) Paul Krugman in the NYTimes. He makes the same point about there being no evidence for trickle-down economics. If it worked, there should be; it's been tried long enough. The pope doesn't need a Ph.D. in economics to make use of that information. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, s3raphita@... wrote: Re And I could cite a busload of Jesus' expressions of concern for the poor and oppressed. Plus one in particular about how hard it is for the rich person to get into Heaven.: I'm with him on the rich! Some things never change. But Jesus was a first-century rabbi so could have no idea of the later development of industrialisation, capitalism, welfare states and globalisation. It is as ridiculous to wonder what a first-century person would decide pro or anti socialism as it is to wonder what a first-century person would decide on which car to buy, or if a first-century person would prefer Copernican or pre-Copernican astronomy. For Christ's sake - he didn't even know he was living in the first century! ;-) ---In fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend@... wrote: Sounds to me as if he's an expert in human nature. And I could cite a busload of Jesus' expressions of concern for the poor and oppressed. Plus one in particular about how hard it is for the rich person to get into Heaven. I don't think you've got a winner of an argument here, Seraphita. Seraphita wrote: The Pope said “some people continue to defend trickle-down theories which assume that economic growth, encouraged by a free market, will inevitably succeed in bringing about greater justice and inclusiveness in the world. This opinion, which has never been confirmed by the facts, expresses a crude and naïve trust in the goodness of those wielding economic power. So is the Pope now an expert on economics (the dismal science)? Trickle-down theories could be wrong - but they could be right. It is surely possible to be a pious Christian and either support or oppose socialism. When popes claim that one or the other side is right they get dangerously close to claiming that supporters of the side they oppose are not true Christians - and so not saved. Jesus would be turning in His grave - if He hadn't risen. ---In fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com, emptybill@... wrote: Email HIM. Offer to evangelize the Tantrika-s. Maybe he'll offer to make you a socialist proselyte and then, if you are successful, a bishop. ---In fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com, noozguru@... wrote: BTW, those folks over on Infowars have a tendency to contradict themselves. They were talking about the riots at stores Thanksgiving Evening and saying that individualism would prevent that. WRONG. In fact much of the dialectic on Infowars is for the we people. They like to point to the BBC documentary Century of the Self which is about how the me society was created and how destructive it has been. And you can't have much of a revolution with a bunch of me people. They also thought that if the crowd would be this bad over
[FairfieldLife] RE: Jesuit Trained Pope Trashes Capitalism in Call for Worldwide Socialism
Re Well, I'm thinking of the U.S., where capitalism is simply out of control.: ditto the UK. ---In fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend@... wrote: Well, I'm thinking of the U.S., where capitalism is simply out of control. But I'm not sure what Singapore et al. have to do with the lack of evidence for trickle-down economics. And in any case the pope is talking about the current effects of current systems, not condemning as sympathizers of the antichrist those who have bright ideas for a more functional version of capitalism. As long as he sticks with Krugman, he's doing fine, as far as I'm concerned. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, s3raphita@... wrote: Re The Pope doesn't need a Ph.D. in economics to make use of that information.: Unfortunately he does! Look, this from Wiki: Singapore has a market-based economy - one of the freest and most business-friendly. According to the Corruption Perceptions Index, Singapore is consistently ranked as one of the least-corrupt countries in the world, along with New Zealand and the Scandinavian countries. Singapore has the lowest infant mortality rate in the world for the past two decades. Life expectancy in Singapore is 80 for males and 85 for females, placing the country 4th in the world for life expectancy. Almost the whole population has access to improved water and sanitation facilities. There are fewer than 10 annual deaths from HIV per 100,000 people. Adult obesity is below 10%. Surely to God it's at least *possible* that a let-it-rip capitalist model could bring greater benefits to the populace than a top-down state-controlled economy? If it's possible then it's not unreasonable for people to push for a such a system without them necessarily being greedy rich pigs. And so without them necessarily being on the side of the Antichrist. Keep religion free from dogmatic economic positions seems a sensible approach to me. ---In fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend@... wrote: Well, but the principles don't change. A poor person is a poor person is a poor person no matter what century they live in or under what kind of economic system. Nobody's suggesting Jesus was preaching socialism qua socialism or against capitalism qua capitalism. That's a red herring. He was preaching in favor of generosity and against selfish greed. The point is to relieve poverty no matter what the cause. These days, the cause tends to be the greed of the masters of the capitalist system. Sounds like the pope has been reading (Nobel Prize-winning economist) Paul Krugman in the NYTimes. He makes the same point about there being no evidence for trickle-down economics. If it worked, there should be; it's been tried long enough. The pope doesn't need a Ph.D. in economics to make use of that information. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, s3raphita@... wrote: Re And I could cite a busload of Jesus' expressions of concern for the poor and oppressed. Plus one in particular about how hard it is for the rich person to get into Heaven.: I'm with him on the rich! Some things never change. But Jesus was a first-century rabbi so could have no idea of the later development of industrialisation, capitalism, welfare states and globalisation. It is as ridiculous to wonder what a first-century person would decide pro or anti socialism as it is to wonder what a first-century person would decide on which car to buy, or if a first-century person would prefer Copernican or pre-Copernican astronomy. For Christ's sake - he didn't even know he was living in the first century! ;-) ---In fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend@... wrote: Sounds to me as if he's an expert in human nature. And I could cite a busload of Jesus' expressions of concern for the poor and oppressed. Plus one in particular about how hard it is for the rich person to get into Heaven. I don't think you've got a winner of an argument here, Seraphita. Seraphita wrote: The Pope said “some people continue to defend trickle-down theories which assume that economic growth, encouraged by a free market, will inevitably succeed in bringing about greater justice and inclusiveness in the world. This opinion, which has never been confirmed by the facts, expresses a crude and naïve trust in the goodness of those wielding economic power. So is the Pope now an expert on economics (the dismal science)? Trickle-down theories could be wrong - but they could be right. It is surely possible to be a pious Christian and either support or oppose socialism. When popes claim that one or the other side is right they get dangerously close to claiming that supporters of the side they oppose are not true Christians - and so not saved. Jesus would be turning in His grave - if He hadn't risen. ---In fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com, emptybill@... wrote: Email HIM. Offer to evangelize the Tantrika-s. Maybe he'll
