[FairfieldLife] Re: TM "grad school?"
Hey, this taking slight blows without alot umbrage and > > stretching tiny disagreements into 20 posts has got to > > stop. Nice comeback. > > Chalk it up to Karunamayi. I used to spend most of my online time > getting into various arguments with people. Then after starting to > chant the Gayatri Mantra, the desire to do so just faded away. If my > writing honestly and frankly about the nature of Waking Down and my > experiences with it invoke snarky comments directed at me, so be it. > I figure it says a whole lot more about the commenter than me. > >Yea, I happened to see Karunamayi for the first time about a month ago, and I have to say it rekindled feelings I haven't had in 20 plus years. I didn't quite get into the chanting, but the overall effect was very nice. Maybe it didn't hurt, that as I was a little late, they put me on floor, up front, where I could bask a little. lurk To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: TM "grad school?"
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "lurkernomore20002000" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Alex Stanley" > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anonymousff <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > wrote: > > > that ain't courage. the boy's a crazy mutha > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "lurkernomore20002000" > > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > >You are an inspiration to us all. Your courage to tread > > > > where lesser mortals do not dare is awe inspiring. > > > > > > > > lurk > > > > They like me! They really like me! > > > > > > > > Alex > > Hey, this taking slight blows without alot umbrage and > stretching tiny disagreements into 20 posts has got to > stop. Nice comeback. Chalk it up to Karunamayi. I used to spend most of my online time getting into various arguments with people. Then after starting to chant the Gayatri Mantra, the desire to do so just faded away. If my writing honestly and frankly about the nature of Waking Down and my experiences with it invoke snarky comments directed at me, so be it. I figure it says a whole lot more about the commenter than me. Alex To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: TM "grad school?"
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Alex Stanley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anonymousff <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > > that ain't courage. the boy's a crazy mutha > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "lurkernomore20002000" > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > >You are an inspiration to us all. Your courage to tread > > > where lesser mortals do not dare is awe inspiring. > > > > > > lurk > > They like me! They really like me! > > > > Alex Hey, this taking slight blows without alot umbrage and stretching tiny disagreements into 20 posts has got to stop. Nice comeback. lurk To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: TM "grad school?"
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anonymousff <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > that ain't courage. the boy's a crazy mutha > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "lurkernomore20002000" > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > >You are an inspiration to us all. Your courage to tread > > where lesser mortals do not dare is awe inspiring. > > > > lurk They like me! They really like me! Alex To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: TM "grad school?"
that ain't courage. the boy's a crazy mutha --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "lurkernomore20002000" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Alex Stanley" < > > snip > > Let's face it, > > having your awareness free-fall into the full spectrum of your > > humanity, including all the internal shit you've spent your entire > > life trying to avoid/escape/transcend, is *never* going to be a > > popular path. > > > >You are an inspiration to us all. Your courage to tread where lesser > mortals do not dare is awe inspiring. > > lurk To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: TM "grad school?"
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Alex Stanley" < snip Let's face it, > having your awareness free-fall into the full spectrum of your > humanity, including all the internal shit you've spent your entire > life trying to avoid/escape/transcend, is *never* going to be a > popular path. > >You are an inspiration to us all. Your courage to tread where lesser mortals do not dare is awe inspiring. lurk To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: TM "grad school?"
Reply to Doug Hamilton Here's a summary of what you said the two lady saints were emphasizing: -discipline in practice / take it seriously -practice meditation with the eyes closed, even if you are already enlightened -don't have spiritual arrogance about having meditated for a long time Is this a form of TM grad school? These are great points, but don't you think that some people who are still practicing Maharishi's programs are following these points already? So, in what sense is this "grad school"? It's nice to know that some people who have chosen to move on to other spiritual practices may also be following these points. You wrote: <> Just curious what you meant here. What is "all this 'waking down' stuff" that you refer to? Do you mean the Waking Down group in Fairfield? Perhaps you get your ideas of what that is about from Alex Stanley's posts. You might be influenced in your thinking by the fact that he quit doing TM a long time ago? What do you actually know of the Waking Down teachings, and whether or not they are in conflict with the teachings of the lady saints that you mentioned, and that I summarized above? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: TM "grad school?"
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "dhamiltony2k5" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: [snip] > Though not directly challenging, it was a an effective > commentary of all this 'waking down' stuff which has > become so popular recently. I'd say it's an effective commentary on the nature of Karunamayi coming from a traditional "spiritual technique" background, but, that really doesn't say anything about Waking Down. While WD doesn't involve techniques, it certainly doesn't preclude anyone from also doing techniques. In fact, there are WDers in FF who still do TM and other techniques, including Karunamayi stuff. Personally, I got a lot of value doing japa per Karunamayi's instructions, and occasionally the Gayatri Mantra spontaneously fills my awareness, but currently I'm not drawn to actively do any spiritual techniques in disciplined fashion. Right now I prefer just being innocently present in a Satsang environment. And, to be honest, Waking Down is really not all that popular. There are all of about 50 people in FF involved in WD. Whereas, many hundreds of Fairfielders flock to see the Ammas. Let's face it, having your awareness free-fall into the full spectrum of your humanity, including all the internal shit you've spent your entire life trying to avoid/escape/transcend, is *never* going to be a popular path. Alex To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: TM "grad school?"
Thank you Doug for your thoughtful contribution. YouÕre one of a handfull who keep this forum a rich and delight to visit --- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: TM "grad school?"
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > on 7/12/05 12:19 PM, tomandcindytraynor at [EMAIL PROTECTED] > wrote: > > > TurquoiseB writes: > > What do people think? I'm certainly interested to > > Hear if such teachings *are* available, or even > > Theoretically available in the materials left to the "posterity" > > Of the TM movement. > > Unc > > Tom T writes: > > We currently have a weekly gathering of about 25 to 35 going on here > > in FF in which Rick Archer is a regular. The common thread is, OK this > > is how the A or E experience went down for me and is being lived day > > to day, and now What's next? Actually the 'Ladies' are very much teaching spiritual practice to this. They kind of take up where MMY had left us off a few years ago. Ammachi with her AIM techniques and Karunamayi inciting people on with their discipline to keep after it with spiritual practice of meditations. What they teach towards is really very practical for advancement of what many have gotten from years of practice of TM and TM-sidhis. Theirs is advanced patanjali for the TM seeker. Brahma=vidya Ammachi to 'embodiments of divine souls', Karunamayi to embodiments of 'souls immortal', to 'divinize' their experience. Karunamayi gave several Atman-vidya discourses recently going very directly and much in to 'what is next'. She kept hammering that 'the human birth is a great boon of God to realize supreme consciousness within us'. Is to experience the divine. In different ways she urged discipline in practice. That it 'requires going deep and to be taken seriously'. That even the enlightened meditate, that even the Rishi's of old meditated. She had some great stories about this. She emplored that people do design life to be divinizing, enhancing the power inside... to pursue practice w/ awareness where the darkness of ignorance is dispelled and conquers egoism and selfishness of the mind w/ supreme Being. That the world needs this. Even for the enlightened the spiritual practice is to close the eyes to acquire that knowledge of self realization of the Divine Consciousness. At one different point Karunamayi observed and reflected that there is a spiritual arrogance now among some old meditators, that some long-time meditators have a 'false pride of a spiritual immaturity'. she encouraged and incited that folks do use their wisdom and have a faith in sadhana. She was saying that it is not enough to just have some witness or self, but to go on with your practice to that which is divine within. To 'divinize' life in the experience and realization of the supreme within. Though not directly challenging, it was a an effective commentary of all this 'waking down' stuff which has become so popular recently. Evidently there is more and it involves going for it to find. 'Like the holy rishi's of old, god comes periodically to remind humans of the boon they do have. These ladies are that. They come out of greater compassion. Their's is of grace a spiritual teaching that a human life can be 'blessed and freed in sadhana of meditation; that the practice is not mechanical but also the will of God, the shakti we meditate upon, that vital force. Flowing with compassion they do come to us.' It is pretty obvious if you sit, listen and do it. -Doug To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: TM "grad school?"
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "tomandcindytraynor" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > TurquoiseB writes: > What do people think? I'm certainly interested to > Hear if such teachings *are* available, or even > Theoretically available in the materials left to the "posterity" > Of the TM movement. > Unc > Tom T writes: > We currently have a weekly gathering of about 25 to 35 going on here > in FF in which Rick Archer is a regular. The common thread is, OK > this is how the A or E experience went down for me and is being > lived day to day, and now What's next? Although it appears to be > intellectual it comes out as an increase in the ability of the > heart to handle deeper understanding. Some show up not having the > understanding to sort it out and for others it is an ever deepening > appreciation of the experience of living That. The appreciation > comes about through trying > to explain what can not be explained and somehow the attempt alone > deepens the understanding and appreciation of the one trying to > explain how it is for them, as well as those in the group listening. > Tom T Excellent. Thank you for your reply, and for that intent. I think it's noble, and fills a tremendous void. And I certainly appreciate the precision of your wording, such as, "trying to explain what can not be explained." And yes, somehow the experience of trying anyway *does* seem to deepen the under- standing of the person attempting the impossible. Somehow. It's just the damnedest thing. Maybe it has to do with intent. If you're trying to help someone else, you help yourself. Unc To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: TM "grad school?"
--- TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter Sutphen > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > There appears to be two very popular grad schools > for > > TMers. These are the University of Sri Sri Ravi > > Shankar and Amma State University. Others have > also > > attended Gangaji A&M, and Karunamayi Teachers > College. > > There are other grad schools too, but I haven't > heard > > about them. > > That's an insightful way of putting it. I've > met Gangaji, and sat in on a couple of her > satsangs, including the one she held the day > she received word that her teacher had died. > Impressive, on many levels. > > Unc I've always loved that Ramana Maharishi tradition. I've enjoyed her books and tapes. She has a new book out called "Diamond in Your Pocket". Very good. > > > > > > > To subscribe, send a message to: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Or go to: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ > and click 'Join This Group!' > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > Yahoo! Sports Rekindle the Rivalries. Sign up for Fantasy Football http://football.fantasysports.yahoo.com To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: TM "grad school?"
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter Sutphen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > There appears to be two very popular grad schools for > TMers. These are the University of Sri Sri Ravi > Shankar and Amma State University. Others have also > attended Gangaji A&M, and Karunamayi Teachers College. > There are other grad schools too, but I haven't heard > about them. That's an insightful way of putting it. I've met Gangaji, and sat in on a couple of her satsangs, including the one she held the day she received word that her teacher had died. Impressive, on many levels. Unc To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: TM "grad school?"
If he was toast she would butter him up. - Original Message - From: TurquoiseB To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2005 8:48 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: TM "grad school?" --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Llundrub" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]...> wrote:> ---My frend who is always wiser than myself is who raised the question to me about your friend. I bet my friend can beat your friend up. But she doesn't like getting into pissing matches.Your friend could *definitely* beat my friend up. Sweet guy, but a blissninny factor 'way over the topof the scale. He manages somehow to live his lifewithout working and without paying for much of anything,including the courses he takes at Naropa, and has doneso successfully for decades now, so I cut him a lot of slack just for his level of personal power. But in adown-and-dirty match with your female friend, he'd betoast. :-)UncTo subscribe, send a message to:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/and click 'Join This Group!' To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to:http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: TM "grad school?"
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Llundrub" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > ---My frend who is always wiser than myself is who raised the question to me about your friend. I bet my friend can beat your friend up. But she doesn't like getting into pissing matches. Your friend could *definitely* beat my friend up. Sweet guy, but a blissninny factor 'way over the top of the scale. He manages somehow to live his life without working and without paying for much of anything, including the courses he takes at Naropa, and has done so successfully for decades now, so I cut him a lot of slack just for his level of personal power. But in a down-and-dirty match with your female friend, he'd be toast. :-) Unc To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: TM "grad school?"
> > If you are so sure that such a thing exists then you need to > supply us credulous dopes with at least a partial list of titles > of the teadhings so that we may ascertain for ourselve if such > teachings were ever committed to print. With all due respect, I don't "need" to do anything. :-) ---So you never need too go to the restroom? Or must due respect preceed that act before you respond as well ;) My knowledge of such things comes primarily from my friendat Naropa. The latest visiting Kempo is from a Tibetanmonastery in Bhutan. I will try to find out the particularsfor you. The teachings he gave there in Boulder, on his one-day stop, were in Tibetan, translated "on the fly" by exper-ienced translators there. --Strange we're discussing 'needed' things, and you raise 'the fly.' I *have* heard such teachings discussed among other Tibetangroups in Santa Fe, similarly oral. To be honest, theywere primarily discussed there in the Santa Fe sanghas asa curiosity, because no one had need of them. :-) ---My frend who is always wiser than myself is who raised the question to me about your friend. I bet my friend can beat your friend up. But she doesn't like getting into pissing matches. > My disbelief comes as a result of positing that there is such > a thing or its equivalent as CC in the Vajrayana. That was my "mapping," trying to relate what my friend waswriting to me into TM-speak. Oh I'm sorry, I didn't get it. > For instance, the real analogy in the Vajrayana for enlightenment> would be ascertaining the Trikaya which would be much more like < Vedic Cognition. And this would be really just the start of clear > experience of shunyata. > > The only real thing I can think which might be like what you > mention was always freely available in the Madhiyatmikavatara, > and that is the description of the bhumis. It is possible. Everything I have heard about such teachingsas my friend described in the past has been unfortunately second-hand. ---My teachings were first hand, and then second head. That was fortunate. On my palms. > Of course in the Guhyagarbha there are a further five bhumis > pertaining to Dzogchen that are not considered in the Mahayana. This Kempo is from the Dzogchen tradition. Khenpo Lopon? It's a small world. > Does your friend suggest some other levels perhaps beyond these?He was remarkably unforthcoming on details. I'll see if I can get him to be less so. :-) My friend came, but much later. > I laugh at your naivete. I see now why you were a TM teacher, > because you'll accept any fodder and sell it as high powered > gasoline for Ferraris.Just as I laugh at your consistent assumption that justbecause you personally haven't run into something, itdoesn't exist. :-) He who laughs last laughs loudest. That's my last assumption that you'll ever have. :):) pUncTo subscribe, send a message to:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/and click 'Join This Group!' To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to:http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: TM "grad school?"
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I wonder if this is the teaching he attended?: > > http://www.rinpoche.com/karthar05.htm > > It appears the teaching text may be "Showing the Path to Liberation". I got the feeling that the thing my friend described was more of an unexpected "drop in" teaching by a Kempo who was traveling, and who happened to be in the Boulder area for other reasons. I know that it wasn't on the normal Naropa schedule. I'll try to ask him, but he sometimes goes for days or weeks at a time without checking his email. Unc To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: TM "grad school?"
I wonder if this is the teaching he attended?: http://www.rinpoche.com/karthar05.htm It appears the teaching text may be "Showing the Path to Liberation". To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: TM "grad school?"
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > On Jun 23, 2005, at 5:47 AM, TurquoiseB wrote: > > > He was remarkably unforthcoming on details. I'll see if I > > can get him to be less so. :-) > > The name of the text in TIbetan would be helpful. There are numerous > such texts as you describe, if not hundreds. My friend (also an ex-TM teacher) is one of the *least* intellectual human beings on the planet. There are days when I'm not sure he remembers his own name, much less the name of this particular teaching, if it has one. But I'll ask. :-) Unc To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: TM "grad school?"
On Jun 23, 2005, at 5:47 AM, TurquoiseB wrote: > He was remarkably unforthcoming on details. I'll see if I > can get him to be less so. :-) The name of the text in TIbetan would be helpful. There are numerous such texts as you describe, if not hundreds. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: TM "grad school?"
> So this has me wondering whether any counterpart of this > type of knowledge and teaching has appeared in the TM > movement. While I was around, certainly no TM teacher > had ever been trained in how to talk to someone who was > having enlightenment experiences. Has this changed? > Does anyone know whether there are a group of teachers > who *have* been taught how to teach those who are having > such experiences? Just to clarify, what I'm wondering about is *not* the kind of intellectual teaching that seeks to define or categorize or "bag" the different exper- iences of enlightenment -- "What 'state' am I experiencing?" -- that sorta thing. There is a great deal of that in the TMO, and in other traditions. What I'm more interested in is a more day-to-day, prag- matic type of teaching, along the lines of "What do I *do* with these experiences, *whatever* they are?" When you think about it, it is not likely that the second type of teaching is going to come up very much in organizations that promote the dogma that enlight- enment, once realized, can never be lost, and that the actions of the enlightened are, by definition, perfect and free from the possibility of "error." But not all spiritual organizations and traditions believe this; some believe the opposite, that such realizations *can* be "lost." At Naropa, such questions probably come up a lot because of Trungpa's personal history. We are talk- ing, after all, about a man who was a recognized, "certified" tulku from a respected lineage, who at one point in his life stopped wearing his robes, forsook all of his vows, and essentially drank and screwed himself to death. His most senior student, who reportedly had been having a bunch of pretty high experiences himself, caused a *huge* scandal in the spiritual world by refusing to deal with the realities of having AIDS, and knowingly giving the disease to a number of other people. So the students of such a tradition are naturally going to be more open to the possibility that such actions may be an indicator that some, if not all, of the realization of higher states of consciousness might have "slipped away," or been "driven away" by non-dharmic actions. Everything I've heard from the Naropa discussions has been from my friend, who is a *remarkably* un- intellectual fellow, interested only in pragmatic Buddhism. He describes the things he's learned to me in *purely* pragmatic terms. The discussions of such pragmatic teachings I heard in the Santa Fe Tibetan communities centered on topics like: * Ok, I'm starting to have early enlightenment exper- iences. (paraphrasing in TM-speak) I'm consistently witnessing sleep and dreaming and activity, and the transcendent is an ever-present reality for me. So before all this happened, I had this set of practices (A, B, & C) that I performed without fail every day. Do I still need to *do* A, B, and C, now that the "goal" of each of those practices is present at all times? * Another such discussion had to do with drugs. In a number of Tantric traditions in the East, "holy men," some of them theoretically enlightened, smoke a lot of hash. So the question comes up, "If I'm starting to have these early enlightenment experiences myself, can I do these kinds of things safely?" * By far the most interesting of such discussions I have heard personally had to do with how to deal with one's *students* if one is starting to have enlight- enment experiences. The "dangers" to the teacher were disccussed in some detail. The students will try to put you on a pedestal, and make you "special." They will project their own assumptions onto you and expect you to live up to (or, more accurately, live down to) them. How do you deal with this stuff? So my question to the larger group of TMers and former TMers here is, have you ever heard such teachings in the TM context? Unc To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: TM "grad school?"
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Llundrub" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > > > Unc: > > So this has me wondering whether any counterpart of this > > type of knowledge and teaching has appeared in the TM > > movement. While I was around, certainly no TM teacher > > had ever been trained in how to talk to someone who was > > having enlightenment experiences. Has this changed? > > Does anyone know whether there are a group of teachers > > who *have* been taught how to teach those who are having > > such experiences? > > > > ---On the basis of the vagaries you just put to print I would > > suggest that this set of instructions doesn't exist in the Tibetan > > either except insofar as in your mind. > > > > If you are so sure that such a thing exists then you need to > > supply us credulous dopes with at least a partial list of titles > > of the teadhings so that we may ascertain for ourselve if such > > teachings were ever committed to print. > > With all due respect, I don't "need" to do anything. :-) > > My knowledge of such things comes primarily from my friend > at Naropa. The latest visiting Kempo is from a Tibetan > monastery in Bhutan. I will try to find out the particulars > for you. The teachings he gave there in Boulder, on his one- > day stop, were in Tibetan, translated "on the fly" by exper- > ienced translators there. > > I *have* heard such teachings discussed among other Tibetan > groups in Santa Fe, similarly oral. To be honest, they > were primarily discussed there in the Santa Fe sanghas as > a curiosity, because no one had need of them. :-) > > > My disbelief comes as a result of positing that there is such > > a thing or its equivalent as CC in the Vajrayana. > > That was my "mapping," trying to relate what my friend was > writing to me into TM-speak. > > > For instance, the real analogy in the Vajrayana for enlightenment > > would be ascertaining the Trikaya which would be much more like > < Vedic Cognition. And this would be really just the start of clear > > experience of shunyata. > > > > The only real thing I can think which might be like what you > > mention was always freely available in the Madhiyatmikavatara, > > and that is the description of the bhumis. > > It is possible. Everything I have heard about such teachings > as my friend described in the past has been unfortunately > second-hand. > > > Of course in the Guhyagarbha there are a further five bhumis > > pertaining to Dzogchen that are not considered in the Mahayana. > > This Kempo is from the Dzogchen tradition. > > > Does your friend suggest some other levels perhaps beyond these? > > He was remarkably unforthcoming on details. I'll see if I > can get him to be less so. :-) > > > I laugh at your naivete. I see now why you were a TM teacher, > > because you'll accept any fodder and sell it as high powered > > gasoline for Ferraris. > > Just as I laugh at your consistent assumption that just > because you personally haven't run into something, it > doesn't exist. :-) > well, since I am everything, this makes sense... To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: TM "grad school?"
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Llundrub" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Unc: > So this has me wondering whether any counterpart of this > type of knowledge and teaching has appeared in the TM > movement. While I was around, certainly no TM teacher > had ever been trained in how to talk to someone who was > having enlightenment experiences. Has this changed? > Does anyone know whether there are a group of teachers > who *have* been taught how to teach those who are having > such experiences? > > ---On the basis of the vagaries you just put to print I would > suggest that this set of instructions doesn't exist in the Tibetan > either except insofar as in your mind. > > If you are so sure that such a thing exists then you need to > supply us credulous dopes with at least a partial list of titles > of the teadhings so that we may ascertain for ourselve if such > teachings were ever committed to print. With all due respect, I don't "need" to do anything. :-) My knowledge of such things comes primarily from my friend at Naropa. The latest visiting Kempo is from a Tibetan monastery in Bhutan. I will try to find out the particulars for you. The teachings he gave there in Boulder, on his one- day stop, were in Tibetan, translated "on the fly" by exper- ienced translators there. I *have* heard such teachings discussed among other Tibetan groups in Santa Fe, similarly oral. To be honest, they were primarily discussed there in the Santa Fe sanghas as a curiosity, because no one had need of them. :-) > My disbelief comes as a result of positing that there is such > a thing or its equivalent as CC in the Vajrayana. That was my "mapping," trying to relate what my friend was writing to me into TM-speak. > For instance, the real analogy in the Vajrayana for enlightenment > would be ascertaining the Trikaya which would be much more like < Vedic Cognition. And this would be really just the start of clear > experience of shunyata. > > The only real thing I can think which might be like what you > mention was always freely available in the Madhiyatmikavatara, > and that is the description of the bhumis. It is possible. Everything I have heard about such teachings as my friend described in the past has been unfortunately second-hand. > Of course in the Guhyagarbha there are a further five bhumis > pertaining to Dzogchen that are not considered in the Mahayana. This Kempo is from the Dzogchen tradition. > Does your friend suggest some other levels perhaps beyond these? He was remarkably unforthcoming on details. I'll see if I can get him to be less so. :-) > I laugh at your naivete. I see now why you were a TM teacher, > because you'll accept any fodder and sell it as high powered > gasoline for Ferraris. Just as I laugh at your consistent assumption that just because you personally haven't run into something, it doesn't exist. :-) Unc To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: TM "grad school?"
So its really a case of "My karma ran over your dogma?" Or perhaps "My dogma is higher octane than yours?" Yee-ha. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Llundrub" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > So this has me wondering whether any counterpart of this > type of knowledge and teaching has appeared in the TM > movement. While I was around, certainly no TM teacher > had ever been trained in how to talk to someone who was > having enlightenment experiences. Has this changed? > Does anyone know whether there are a group of teachers > who *have* been taught how to teach those who are having > such experiences? > > ---On the basis of the vagaries you just put to print I would suggest that this set of instructions doesn't exist in the Tibetan either except insofar as in your mind. > > If you are so sure that such a thing exists then you need to supply us credulous dopes with at least a partial list of titles of the teadhings so that we may ascertain for ourselve if such teachings were ever committed to print. > > My disbelief comes as a result of positing that there is such a thing or its equivalent as CC in the Vajrayana. For instance, the real analogy in the Vajrayana for enlightenment would be ascertaining the Trikaya which would be much more like Vedic Cognition. And this would be really just the start of clear experience of shunyata. > > The only real thing I can think which might be like what you mention was always freely available in the Madhiyatmikavatara, and that is the description of the bhumis. > > Of course in the Guhyagarbha there are a further five bhumis pertaining to Dzogchen that are not considered in the Mahayana. > > Does your friend suggest some other levels perhaps beyond these? > > I laugh at your naivete. I see now why you were a TM teacher, because you'll accept any fodder and sell it as high powered gasoline for Ferraris. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
