[FairfieldLife] Re: TMO ishta mantras in India
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "lupidus108" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Benjamin Creme would not answer your question as he only describes > the point of evolution (state of consciousness) of people who are no > longer in the body. It could be numerous reasons for this, the most > obvious being that he has no intention of insulting anybody or > his/her followers. > For a list of initiates, their rays and stage of evolution, you could > see: "Maitreyas Mission, Volume III" by Bejamin Creme. There you will > find a very interesting list of several hundred initiates, from Jack > Kerouac and Danny Kaye to Malcome X, Rajneesh and Bhagavan > Nityananda, to name a few. Only out of curiosity, because I have no interest in Benjamin Creme other *than* curiosity, what does he think of Kerouac? He was an interesting dude -- a career drunk who was also a serious Buddhist scholar. "Satori In Paris" was brilliant, in my opinion, a long, rambling description of a satori experience that never describes the satori experience. Unc To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: TMO ishta mantras in India
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > on 6/4/05 4:35 PM, Peter Sutphen at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > > > > > And why do you believe that he is not? I asked you > > > this before and your response was that you had seen > > > enough. When I asked specifically what you had seen or > > > what degree of personal experience you have with "Mr. > > > Shankar" you did not respond indicating to me you have > > > no basis other than your own projections to base this > > > opinion on. Perhaps we should ask Mr. Creme about it? > > > ;-) Actually I did not see your question as I have other things to do than read everything that is written here :-) But if the question was what my basis for questioning Ravi Shankars status, then obviously it is based on hearing what he says and his answering questions and appying my intuition. My understanding is of course purely subjective as I am not enlightened nor fully clairvoiyant, and should be taken for that only. In other words; nothing to be terribly upset about. :-) Benjamin Creme would not answer your question as he only describes the point of evolution (state of consciousness) of people who are no longer in the body. It could be numerous reasons for this, the most obvious being that he has no intention of insulting anybody or his/her followers. For a list of initiates, their rays and stage of evolution, you could see: "Maitreyas Mission, Volume III" by Bejamin Creme. There you will find a very interesting list of several hundred initiates, from Jack Kerouac and Danny Kaye to Malcome X, Rajneesh and Bhagavan Nityananda, to name a few. For more current news, lectures and comments you could see: http://www.shareintl.org/magazine/SI_current.htm To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: TMO ishta mantras in India
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter Sutphen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Unc, I probaly have had the most experience with SSRS > than others that post here, unless there is a lurker > out there. What do you want to know and I'll try to > answer. How are these social programs paid for? If by the students, is it pure donation or required? Is there a clear "hierarchy" of students, from "highest" to "lowest" as there is in the TMO and most Indian-based groups? And the most important question, have any of the students claimed realization of their own enlightenment as a result of following SSRS's guidelines, and if so, what was his reaction to the claim? IMO, the answers to these questions say a lot about a group. Thanks in advance, Unc To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: TMO ishta mantras in India
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > on 6/3/05 7:29 PM, Vaj at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > > > > > > > On Jun 3, 2005, at 5:57 PM, Peter Sutphen wrote: > > > > > >>> > > >>> Ego-inflation is an OK thing if it gets the job > > >>> done. > > >> > > >> What is the job and when is it done and how in the > > >> world will an arrogant ego help this? > > > > > > It may be just they are being trained like their "master"--to > attain > > > "Black Rudra"--the form of enlightenment where the ego is not > > > relinquished. It is believed by some that a number of the > charismatic > > > holymen selling their wares and oh so prevalent nowadays fall in > this > > > category. > > > > Maharishi explicitly stated, in a lecture at Harvard Law School and > > elsewhere, that we don't relinquish or destroy the ego with his > path, but > > rather make it bigger, stronger, etc., until it becomes as big as > the whole > > universe. Amma commented (not with reference to MMY) that this path > can work > > but is dangerous. > > I don't think that MMY is talking about the same kind of ego that > others are. *** Ego means "sense of self." When that sense of self is limited, it is a problem for the world, especially when that limited sense of self tries to impose itself on others without an accompanying expansion of awareness (think Donald Trump). What MMY is talking about in discussing the expansion of ego to cosmic status is just the innocent accompaniment of the ego with the expansion of awareness experienced through TM, which results in a state in which one is enabled to love one's neighbor as one loves oneself, because "the whole world is my family" is a reality, not moodmaking. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: TMO ishta mantras in India
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Rick" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > (snip) > > Enlightenment is supposed to be naturally connected with > > the thought of enlightenment of everyone--and this manifests thru > > compassion, that way you automatically not only retain a connection > to > > other beings, you spontaneously act on their behalf. > > > This is a great observation. The experience of compassion does always > have with it kind of a feeling of connectedness and a feeling of > wanting the person or persons to be lifted up from their suffering > which would be an enlightenment. "The thought of enlightenment of > everyone", the ultimate gesture of compassion. For me the above sentiment is the only way "I" can truly attain full enlightenment. Scientology Code of Honor: 1. Never desert a comrade in need, in danger or in trouble. Jeff To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: TMO ishta mantras in India
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter Sutphen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > --- Rick <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > wrote: > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter > > Sutphen > > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > > > I agree with Sparaig here. That ego is the > > precise > > > > obstacle to realization. There can not be an ego > > an > > > > realization simultaneously. > > > > > > Hmmm. Might I ask why you believe this? > > > > > > Are you saying that individuality cannot coexist > > > with enlightenment? What then is creation? > > > > > > In my experience, enlightenment is an additive > > > process, not a subtractive one. Nothing is lost > > > or goes away when direct perception of the trans- > > > cendent is added to one's daily perception; all > > > of that other stuff is still there. 200% of life, > > > > > as someone once said. > > > > > > Unc > > > > A related question would be if consciousness knows > > itself as all > > that is either created or uncreated then is that a > > form of ego? > > > > Rick Carlstrom > > Good question. If this line of questioning is more > than intellectual it can lead in some amazing > directions. What actually is the ego? Not > conceptually, but the direct experience of it? If you > persue the ego experientially you can't find it, but > something else will happen. That's why I love > Self-inquiry so much. My little inner experiment usually goes like this: In meditation, having one thought after another step up to center stage I begin to ask, what is back "here" watching these thoughts? So I turn my attention in reverse as it were and try to pull back into myself. Each time I settle back I end up at another layer of the onion, another thought of self peeling off and I again am looking at "something". I feel like self cannot be looked at. It can become like a dog chasing his tail and eventually becomes a little frustrating. So I just continue meditating, stop trying to accomplish anything and become more settled. Rick Carlstrom To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: TMO ishta mantras in India
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > on 6/4/05 4:35 PM, Peter Sutphen at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > > > And why do you believe that he is not? I asked you > > this before and your response was that you had seen > > enough. When I asked specifically what you had seen or > > what degree of personal experience you have with "Mr. > > Shankar" you did not respond indicating to me you have > > no basis other than your own projections to base this > > opinion on. Perhaps we should ask Mr. Creme about it? > > ;-) > > It's interesting how Lupidus and a few others, when you really pin them > down, either don't respond or resort to personal insults. Then next thing > you know they pop up again saying the same silly things. Same could be said about people who obsess over whether or not a short, bearded Hindu man engaged in consenual sexual relations with women at various times in the last 50 years... To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: TMO ishta mantras in India
--- sparaig <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "lupidus108" > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > > > He said enlightenment can "start" that way. Is > this an important > > > part of his reply or is it just the way you > wrote it? > > > > > > Rick Carlstrom > > > > It would be interesting to know how many people on > this board > actually > > believes that Mr. Ravi Shankar is enlightened. > > Never met the man and know next to nothing about > him. Is Chopra > enlightened? Is King Tony Abu-Nader? Is Maharishi? > Am I? Chopra is enlightened. Tony is enlightened. MMY is enlightened. Sparaig is enlightened but "I" is not. > > > > > > > To subscribe, send a message to: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Or go to: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ > and click 'Join This Group!' > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: TMO ishta mantras in India
--- TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > >>> He said enlightenment can "start" that way. Is > this an important > > >>> part of his reply or is it just the way you > wrote it? > > >>> > > >>> Rick Carlstrom > > >> > > >> It would be interesting to know how many people > on this board > > >> actually believes that Mr. Ravi Shankar is > enlightened. > > > > > > Well, I've never met the man. I'd never even > heard his > > > name until I joined this forum. But I believe > he's > > > enlightened. Everyone is enlightened. They > just > > > don't realize it. > > > > And it's not far-fetched to assume he realizes it. > He has certainly > > lived a life conducive to that realization. > > I checked out the website when this subject came up. > Not my scene, but the social work is impressive. Do > you know who pays for it, how it's handled? I'm a > bit of a comparative religion/comparative spiritual > paths freak, and am always interested in hearing how > organizations form themselves and handle the tricky > business of teaching and being of use. > > Unc > > > interested in how Unc, I probaly have had the most experience with SSRS than others that post here, unless there is a lurker out there. What do you want to know and I'll try to answer. > > > > > To subscribe, send a message to: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Or go to: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ > and click 'Join This Group!' > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: TMO ishta mantras in India
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "lupidus108" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > He said enlightenment can "start" that way. Is this an important > > part of his reply or is it just the way you wrote it? > > > > Rick Carlstrom > > It would be interesting to know how many people on this board actually > believes that Mr. Ravi Shankar is enlightened. Never met the man and know next to nothing about him. Is Chopra enlightened? Is King Tony Abu-Nader? Is Maharishi? Am I? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: TMO ishta mantras in India
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter Sutphen > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > I agree with Sparaig here. That ego is the precise > > obstacle to realization. There can not be an ego an > > realization simultaneously. > > Hmmm. Might I ask why you believe this? > > Are you saying that individuality cannot coexist > with enlightenment? What then is creation? > > In my experience, enlightenment is an additive > process, not a subtractive one. Nothing is lost > or goes away when direct perception of the trans- > cendent is added to one's daily perception; all > of that other stuff is still there. 200% of life, > as someone once said. > > Unc I believe I'm becoming an Unc man. Jeff To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: TMO ishta mantras in India
--- Rick <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter > Sutphen > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > I agree with Sparaig here. That ego is the > precise > > > obstacle to realization. There can not be an ego > an > > > realization simultaneously. > > > > Hmmm. Might I ask why you believe this? > > > > Are you saying that individuality cannot coexist > > with enlightenment? What then is creation? > > > > In my experience, enlightenment is an additive > > process, not a subtractive one. Nothing is lost > > or goes away when direct perception of the trans- > > cendent is added to one's daily perception; all > > of that other stuff is still there. 200% of life, > > > as someone once said. > > > > Unc > > A related question would be if consciousness knows > itself as all > that is either created or uncreated then is that a > form of ego? > > Rick Carlstrom Good question. If this line of questioning is more than intellectual it can lead in some amazing directions. What actually is the ego? Not conceptually, but the direct experience of it? If you persue the ego experientially you can't find it, but something else will happen. That's why I love Self-inquiry so much. > > > > > To subscribe, send a message to: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Or go to: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ > and click 'Join This Group!' > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > __ Discover Yahoo! Have fun online with music videos, cool games, IM and more. Check it out! http://discover.yahoo.com/online.html To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: TMO ishta mantras in India
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > on 6/4/05 1:44 AM, sparaig at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > >> > >> Maharishi explicitly stated, in a lecture at Harvard Law School and > >> elsewhere, that we don't relinquish or destroy the ego with his > > path, but > >> rather make it bigger, stronger, etc., until it becomes as big as > > the whole > >> universe. Amma commented (not with reference to MMY) that this path > > can work > >> but is dangerous. > > > > I don't think that MMY is talking about the same kind of ego that > > others are. > > Judging by how he has always given people fancy titles, made them feel > superior to others, told them to remain aloof from people "inferior" to > them, etc., it seems that he is. Maybe that was what THEY needed? And do you really think that King Tony or Chopra took the titles they were given seriously? Maybe Bevan does... To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: TMO ishta mantras in India
--- Llundrub <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > You could be in for a surprise: > http://www.shareintl.org > > The surprise is that you go on. > > -I'm not paranoid when I have my little spy > threads. I just keep at that because if the USA > Intelligence wanted to infiltrate TMO and Ben Cream > and other cults they would choose such a loopy wolf > as their persona. I just find it really hard to > believe that anyone on Earth can be so into the > cultish BC, et al. I'm just incredulous. I thought > most die hard whackos had turned to Fundie Xtianity. > The spy for the government makes more sense for me > than someone really believing this shit. You are obviously a closed-minded, unevolved soul because if you were open-minded and evolved, like me, you would agree with me. -Peter (overshadowed by Lups) __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: TMO ishta mantras in India
In my experience, enlightenment is an additiveprocess, not a subtractive one. Nothing is lostor goes away when direct perception of the trans-cendent is added to one's daily perception; all of that other stuff is still there. 200% of life, as someone once said.UncUh, yeah, what he said. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to:http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: TMO ishta mantras in India
You could be in for a surprise: http://www.shareintl.org The surprise is that you go on.-I'm not paranoid when I have my little spy threads. I just keep at that because if the USA Intelligence wanted to infiltrate TMO and Ben Cream and other cults they would choose such a loopy wolf as their persona. I just find it really hard to believe that anyone on Earth can be so into the cultish BC, et al. I'm just incredulous. I thought most die hard whackos had turned to Fundie Xtianity. The spy for the government makes more sense for me than someone really believing this shit. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to:http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: TMO ishta mantras in India
--- Rick Archer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > on 6/4/05 4:35 PM, Peter Sutphen at > [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > > > And why do you believe that he is not? I asked you > > this before and your response was that you had > seen > > enough. When I asked specifically what you had > seen or > > what degree of personal experience you have with > "Mr. > > Shankar" you did not respond indicating to me you > have > > no basis other than your own projections to base > this > > opinion on. Perhaps we should ask Mr. Creme about > it? > > ;-) > > It's interesting how Lupidus and a few others, when > you really pin them > down, either don't respond or resort to personal > insults. Then next thing > you know they pop up again saying the same silly > things. I agree. I don't mind people coming to conclusions based on their own personal experiences, but if you have no contact with the person and don't practice/follow their teachings what is your conclusion based on? Usually your own projections revealing more about yourself than the one you're talking about. Watch, Lups will not respond to this (yes, I'm baiting you) with a rational response. He has had no personal contact with MMY or with SSRS or, from as best I can tell, with any spiritual teacher other than visiting that website that he pushes. If it is other than this, Lups, please correct me. > > > > > > To subscribe, send a message to: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Or go to: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ > and click 'Join This Group!' > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: TMO ishta mantras in India
on 6/4/05 4:35 PM, Peter Sutphen at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > And why do you believe that he is not? I asked you > this before and your response was that you had seen > enough. When I asked specifically what you had seen or > what degree of personal experience you have with "Mr. > Shankar" you did not respond indicating to me you have > no basis other than your own projections to base this > opinion on. Perhaps we should ask Mr. Creme about it? > ;-) It's interesting how Lupidus and a few others, when you really pin them down, either don't respond or resort to personal insults. Then next thing you know they pop up again saying the same silly things. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: TMO ishta mantras in India
--- lupidus108 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > He said enlightenment can "start" that way. Is > this an important > > part of his reply or is it just the way you wrote > it? > > > > Rick Carlstrom > > It would be interesting to know how many people on > this board actually > believes that Mr. Ravi Shankar is enlightened. And why do you believe that he is not? I asked you this before and your response was that you had seen enough. When I asked specifically what you had seen or what degree of personal experience you have with "Mr. Shankar" you did not respond indicating to me you have no basis other than your own projections to base this opinion on. Perhaps we should ask Mr. Creme about it? ;-) > > > > > > To subscribe, send a message to: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Or go to: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ > and click 'Join This Group!' > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: TMO ishta mantras in India
Yeah, absolutely this is dangerous. I would suspect what this would engender would be people setting themselves up as teachers and selling their wares, websites, slick marketing, etcand this is exactly what has happened. It is essential to emphasize kindness, especially to people interested in higher teaching. If a person cannot really connect to a sense of kindness toward others, then the teachings can simply be distorted into a method of cultivating some form of sanctified misanthropy. Enlightenment is supposed to be naturally connected with the thought of enlightenment of everyone--and this manifests thru compassion, that way you automatically not only retain a connection to other beings, you spontaneously act on their behalf."All you need is love." -the Four Sages ;-)---Well, also there is the danger really of setting oneself up as expert, then solidifying experience around ones old crusty ego, which is basically like deciding to have sex with a corpse. The real ego is not some solidified material atomic structure but a sliding energetic variable which can slip into new levels as the circumstance directs. To not have a sliding ego, which is open to change is to be out of touch with the cosmos which always changes. Thereby one falls from the evolutionary process. To presuppose that one is at their best already is to stop oneself from growing and also to condense things about one until one is trapped. On the other hand, some egoists are so good at it that they become the nearly puranic examples of the extreme of such a process, such as Hitler, etc... To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to:http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: TMO ishta mantras in India
What is interesting thought, to me at least, is how the 9th mandala, the mandala of ego, is also the soma mandala, and I think that the relationship of soma, bodhicitta and ego is an interesting one. - Original Message - From: Vaj To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, June 04, 2005 7:00 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: TMO ishta mantras in India ego = ahamkaraOn Jun 4, 2005, at 2:44 AM, sparaig wrote:> I don't think that MMY is talking about the same kind of ego that> others are.To subscribe, send a message to:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/and click 'Join This Group!' To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to:http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: TMO ishta mantras in India
Several years ago I asked SSRS about my experience ofego annihilation. He said enlightenment can start thatway or with identification and inclusion of everythingin awareness. He didn't indicate that one was more orless dangerous than another. But it was a briefconversation.---That's great the he had a ready made answer for you. Too bad he didn't further teach you about the illusory body, the empty body, and the jalu, the peaceful deities of the heart and the wrathful deities of cognition, and the three spheres and their four bodies. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to:http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: TMO ishta mantras in India
Well, that certainly sounds like now. It really doesn't matter how shitty the circumstances for a Bodhisattva, as there's all the time in the world to get better. The harder the times the quicker one can rest on their laurels someday. - Original Message - From: Vaj To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, June 04, 2005 6:51 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: TMO ishta mantras in India The linga purana gives a nice list--remarkably accurate:-no morality, the sacred books no longer respected, false doctrines will spread. The number of farmers will gradually decline. Working classes will want to take the power of the rajas and obtain the knowledge, lifestyle of the rajas. Most leaders will come from the working class. Fetuses will be killed in the stomachs of their mothers and heroes will be assassinated. Thieves will become kings and kings will be thieves. Women who have relationships with several men will become numerous. The earth produces plenty in some areas and too little in others. Rulers will confiscate property and use it badly. They will cease to protect the people themselves. Base men who gain a little knowledge will declare themselves sages. Priests will degrade themselves by the selling of sacraments. Predatory animals will become more violent. Men of integrity will cease to play an active role. Ready-cooked food will be for sale. The sacred books will be sold on street corners. Young girls will sell their virginity. The god of clouds will be inconsistent in the distribution of the rains. Shopkeepers will run dishonest businesses. they will be surrounded by pretentious, false philosophers. Many beggars and unemployed. Everyone will use hard and vulgar language. No one will be able to trust anyone else. No one will want to return a favor. People will massacre women, children, cows and one another. The number of rajas will greatly decline..etc... and lifespans are at an all-time low.On Jun 3, 2005, at 11:43 PM, Llundrub wrote:> What's the problem with Kali and Kali yuga? Where does it say Kali > Yuga is evil and fucked up? In fact the human life span is supposed to > increase to a huge length before Maitrya comes in 50,000 years from > now. There's other benefits. That kali Yuga line is old, and tired, > and very anti Kali, and I know you know that making fun of Kali is > seriously fucked up. Kali yuga is only screwed up for people of the > wheel. Otherewise it's samsara at its finest. Enjoy Bodhisattva, > there's lots of time yet, to pass, to play!To subscribe, send a message to:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/and click 'Join This Group!' To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to:http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: TMO ishta mantras in India
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter Sutphen > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > I agree with Sparaig here. That ego is the precise > > obstacle to realization. There can not be an ego an > > realization simultaneously. > > Hmmm. Might I ask why you believe this? > > Are you saying that individuality cannot coexist > with enlightenment? What then is creation? > > In my experience, enlightenment is an additive > process, not a subtractive one. Nothing is lost > or goes away when direct perception of the trans- > cendent is added to one's daily perception; all > of that other stuff is still there. 200% of life, > as someone once said. > > Unc A related question would be if consciousness knows itself as all that is either created or uncreated then is that a form of ego? Rick Carlstrom To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: TMO ishta mantras in India
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: (snip) Enlightenment is supposed to be naturally connected with > the thought of enlightenment of everyone--and this manifests thru > compassion, that way you automatically not only retain a connection to > other beings, you spontaneously act on their behalf. This is a great observation. The experience of compassion does always have with it kind of a feeling of connectedness and a feeling of wanting the person or persons to be lifted up from their suffering which would be an enlightenment. "The thought of enlightenment of everyone", the ultimate gesture of compassion. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: TMO ishta mantras in India
> >>> He said enlightenment can "start" that way. Is this an important > >>> part of his reply or is it just the way you wrote it? > >>> > >>> Rick Carlstrom > >> > >> It would be interesting to know how many people on this board > >> actually believes that Mr. Ravi Shankar is enlightened. > > > > Well, I've never met the man. I'd never even heard his > > name until I joined this forum. But I believe he's > > enlightened. Everyone is enlightened. They just > > don't realize it. > > And it's not far-fetched to assume he realizes it. He has certainly > lived a life conducive to that realization. I checked out the website when this subject came up. Not my scene, but the social work is impressive. Do you know who pays for it, how it's handled? I'm a bit of a comparative religion/comparative spiritual paths freak, and am always interested in hearing how organizations form themselves and handle the tricky business of teaching and being of use. Unc interested in how To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: TMO ishta mantras in India
on 6/4/05 1:26 PM, TurquoiseB at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: >>> He said enlightenment can "start" that way. Is this an important >>> part of his reply or is it just the way you wrote it? >>> >>> Rick Carlstrom >> >> It would be interesting to know how many people on this board >> actually believes that Mr. Ravi Shankar is enlightened. > > Well, I've never met the man. I'd never even heard his > name until I joined this forum. But I believe he's > enlightened. Everyone is enlightened. They just > don't realize it. And it's not far-fetched to assume he realizes it. He has certainly lived a life conducive to that realization. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: TMO ishta mantras in India
> > He said enlightenment can "start" that way. Is this an important > > part of his reply or is it just the way you wrote it? > > > > Rick Carlstrom > > It would be interesting to know how many people on this board > actually believes that Mr. Ravi Shankar is enlightened. Well, I've never met the man. I'd never even heard his name until I joined this forum. But I believe he's enlightened. Everyone is enlightened. They just don't realize it. Unc To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: TMO ishta mantras in India
on 6/4/05 12:57 PM, lupidus108 at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: >>> "They are laborers. They shouldn't be running the government. Give >> them a >>> shovel and tell them where to dig." > > Doesn't sound like MMY. Source of this "quote" ? > After all, Maharishi in 1982 said that "Communism is the most > intelligent political system." I heard him say it in one of those broadcasts, but I couldn't possibly come up with a date or transcript for you. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: TMO ishta mantras in India
> He said enlightenment can "start" that way. Is this an important > part of his reply or is it just the way you wrote it? > > Rick Carlstrom It would be interesting to know how many people on this board actually believes that Mr. Ravi Shankar is enlightened. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: TMO ishta mantras in India
Guru Purnima tape from 1982. Ingegerd -- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "lupidus108" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > "They are laborers. They shouldn't be running the government. Give > > them a > > > shovel and tell them where to dig." > > Doesn't sound like MMY. Source of this "quote" ? > After all, Maharishi in 1982 said that "Communism is the most > intelligent political system." To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: TMO ishta mantras in India
> > "They are laborers. They shouldn't be running the government. Give > them a > > shovel and tell them where to dig." Doesn't sound like MMY. Source of this "quote" ? After all, Maharishi in 1982 said that "Communism is the most intelligent political system." To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: TMO ishta mantras in India
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter Sutphen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > --- Rick Archer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > on 6/3/05 7:29 PM, Vaj at [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > wrote: > > > > > > > > On Jun 3, 2005, at 5:57 PM, Peter Sutphen wrote: > > > > > >>> > > >>> Ego-inflation is an OK thing if it gets the job > > >>> done. > > >> > > >> What is the job and when is it done and how in > > the > > >> world will an arrogant ego help this? > > > > > > It may be just they are being trained like their > > "master"--to attain > > > "Black Rudra"--the form of enlightenment where the > > ego is not > > > relinquished. It is believed by some that a number > > of the charismatic > > > holymen selling their wares and oh so prevalent > > nowadays fall in this > > > category. > > > > Maharishi explicitly stated, in a lecture at Harvard > > Law School and > > elsewhere, that we don't relinquish or destroy the > > ego with his path, but > > rather make it bigger, stronger, etc., until it > > becomes as big as the whole > > universe. Amma commented (not with reference to MMY) > > that this path can work > > but is dangerous. > > Several years ago I asked SSRS about my experience of > ego annihilation. He said enlightenment can start that > way or with identification and inclusion of everything > in awareness. He didn't indicate that one was more or > less dangerous than another. But it was a brief > conversation. He said enlightenment can "start" that way. Is this an important part of his reply or is it just the way you wrote it? Rick Carlstrom To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: TMO ishta mantras in India
"They are laborers. They shouldn't be running the government". Well that's another layer of MMY's antipathy towards Blair - I'd forgotten about that! His ignorance is astounding... --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > on 6/4/05 8:54 AM, Ingegerd at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > > No, we can't - so say MMY in the Guru Purnima tape from 1982. > > Ingegerd > > Was that the one in which, referring to Britain's Labor Party, he said, > "They are laborers. They shouldn't be running the government. Give them a > shovel and tell them where to dig." To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: TMO ishta mantras in India
Yes. He was very strong about the labours. Maybe he was remembering his own days working in a factory?? Ingegerd --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > on 6/4/05 8:54 AM, Ingegerd at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > > No, we can't - so say MMY in the Guru Purnima tape from 1982. > > Ingegerd > > Was that the one in which, referring to Britain's Labor Party, he said, > "They are laborers. They shouldn't be running the government. Give them a > shovel and tell them where to dig." To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: TMO ishta mantras in India
on 6/4/05 8:54 AM, Ingegerd at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > No, we can't - so say MMY in the Guru Purnima tape from 1982. > Ingegerd Was that the one in which, referring to Britain's Labor Party, he said, "They are laborers. They shouldn't be running the government. Give them a shovel and tell them where to dig." To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: TMO ishta mantras in India
--Comment below: In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter Sutphen > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > I agree with Sparaig here. That ego is the precise > > obstacle to realization. There can not be an ego an > > realization simultaneously. > > Hmmm. Might I ask why you believe this? > > Are you saying that individuality cannot coexist > with enlightenment? What then is creation? > > In my experience, enlightenment is an additive > process, not a subtractive one. Nothing is lost > or goes away when direct perception of the trans- > cendent is added to one's daily perception; all > of that other stuff is still there. 200% of life, > as someone once said. > > Unc The ego represents an essential stage of human development. To call it a"delusion" is absurd.What is actually interesting is that there are individuals who claim to have no ego(which actually means no experience of an ego)who nonetheless exhibit many features of a narcissistic personality.Case in point is recent revelations about Ramesh Balsekar a leading proponent of advaita vedanta and a prominent disciple of Nisargadata.Balsekar apparently was sexually coming on to female disciples.When this became public knowledge Balsekar bascially said"what's the problem..there is no doer"convenient huh.OTOH there are numerous spirtual teachers eg Ramakrishna,Sri Yukteswar,Gudjieff,Mantak Chia who have specifically said that individuality and enlightment are not mutually exculsive. All of the above of course does not mean that there are not "individuals" who no longer expereience having an ego or personal self.Spirtual practice can lead to this outcome.Indeed some people for karmic(genetic/enviormental)reasons maybe predisposed via meditation etc to the experience of no self.However,to say that this represents the only or even optimal outcome that can be associated with the term enlightenment is IMO wrong and represents a type of fundamentalism Kevin To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: TMO ishta mantras in India
on 6/4/05 1:44 AM, sparaig at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: >> >> Maharishi explicitly stated, in a lecture at Harvard Law School and >> elsewhere, that we don't relinquish or destroy the ego with his > path, but >> rather make it bigger, stronger, etc., until it becomes as big as > the whole >> universe. Amma commented (not with reference to MMY) that this path > can work >> but is dangerous. > > I don't think that MMY is talking about the same kind of ego that > others are. Judging by how he has always given people fancy titles, made them feel superior to others, told them to remain aloof from people "inferior" to them, etc., it seems that he is. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: TMO ishta mantras in India
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter Sutphen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > I agree with Sparaig here. That ego is the precise > obstacle to realization. There can not be an ego an > realization simultaneously. Hmmm. Might I ask why you believe this? Are you saying that individuality cannot coexist with enlightenment? What then is creation? In my experience, enlightenment is an additive process, not a subtractive one. Nothing is lost or goes away when direct perception of the trans- cendent is added to one's daily perception; all of that other stuff is still there. 200% of life, as someone once said. Unc To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: TMO ishta mantras in India
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter Sutphen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > --- lupidus108 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > snip > > > > You could be in for a surprise: > > http://www.shareintl.org > > ...and Jesus wept. Why ? Jesus is here too, living in Italy :-) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To subscribe, send a message to: > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > Or go to: > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ > > and click 'Join This Group!' > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > > > > > > > > __ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: TMO ishta mantras in India
It is one of the "angry tapes" - very frustrating to listen to, where he turn his anger to Nato/Great Britain/Germany/USA/Labour Governments /CIA "who has destroyed the Leaders in the TMO. And "Damn the Germans". Most of the "angry tapes" went to the garbage. But this one I kept just for fun. Ingegerd --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > No, we can't - so say MMY in the Guru Purnima tape from 1982. > > Ingegerd > > Can you explain a bit more for those of us who never > heard that tape? > > When I wrote what I wrote below, I was thinking of the > essential sadness of a spiritual tradition coming to > believe that only the well-born or "spiritually correct" > are worthy of leading society. But I'd be interested > to hear what Maharishi may have said on or around the > subject. > > Unc > > > > > > Working classes will want to take the power of the rajas > > > > > and obtain the knowledge, lifestyle of the rajas. > > > > > > > > Can't have that. > > > > > > > > > Most leaders will come from the working class. > > > > > > > > Can't have that, either. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: TMO ishta mantras in India
--- lupidus108 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: snip > > You could be in for a surprise: > http://www.shareintl.org ...and Jesus wept. > > > > > > To subscribe, send a message to: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Or go to: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ > and click 'Join This Group!' > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: TMO ishta mantras in India
--- sparaig <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > on 6/3/05 7:29 PM, Vaj at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > > > > > > > On Jun 3, 2005, at 5:57 PM, Peter Sutphen wrote: > > > > > >>> > > >>> Ego-inflation is an OK thing if it gets the > job > > >>> done. > > >> > > >> What is the job and when is it done and how in > the > > >> world will an arrogant ego help this? > > > > > > It may be just they are being trained like their > "master"--to > attain > > > "Black Rudra"--the form of enlightenment where > the ego is not > > > relinquished. It is believed by some that a > number of the > charismatic > > > holymen selling their wares and oh so prevalent > nowadays fall in > this > > > category. > > > > Maharishi explicitly stated, in a lecture at > Harvard Law School and > > elsewhere, that we don't relinquish or destroy the > ego with his > path, but > > rather make it bigger, stronger, etc., until it > becomes as big as > the whole > > universe. Amma commented (not with reference to > MMY) that this path > can work > > but is dangerous. > > I don't think that MMY is talking about the same > kind of ego that > others are. I agree with Sparaig here. That ego is the precise obstacle to realization. There can not be an ego an realization simultaneously. > > > > > > To subscribe, send a message to: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Or go to: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ > and click 'Join This Group!' > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: TMO ishta mantras in India
> No, we can't - so say MMY in the Guru Purnima tape from 1982. > Ingegerd Can you explain a bit more for those of us who never heard that tape? When I wrote what I wrote below, I was thinking of the essential sadness of a spiritual tradition coming to believe that only the well-born or "spiritually correct" are worthy of leading society. But I'd be interested to hear what Maharishi may have said on or around the subject. Unc > > > > Working classes will want to take the power of the rajas > > > > and obtain the knowledge, lifestyle of the rajas. > > > > > > Can't have that. > > > > > > > Most leaders will come from the working class. > > > > > > Can't have that, either. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: TMO ishta mantras in India
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > The linga purana gives a nice list--remarkably accurate: > > -no morality, the sacred books no longer respected, false doctrines > will spread. The number of farmers will gradually decline. Working > classes will want to take the power of the rajas and obtain the > knowledge, lifestyle of the rajas. Most leaders will come from the > working class. Fetuses will be killed in the stomachs of their mothers > and heroes will be assassinated. Thieves will become kings and kings > will be thieves. Women who have relationships with several men will > become numerous. The earth produces plenty in some areas and too little > in others. Rulers will confiscate property and use it badly. They will > cease to protect the people themselves. Base men who gain a little > knowledge will declare themselves sages. Priests will degrade > themselves by the selling of sacraments. Predatory animals will become > more violent. Men of integrity will cease to play an active role. > Ready-cooked food will be for sale. The sacred books will be sold on > street corners. Young girls will sell their virginity. The god of > clouds will be inconsistent in the distribution of the rains. > Shopkeepers will run dishonest businesses. they will be surrounded by > pretentious, false philosophers. Many beggars and unemployed. Everyone > will use hard and vulgar language. No one will be able to trust anyone > else. No one will want to return a favor. People will massacre women, > children, cows and one another. The number of rajas will greatly > decline.. > > etc... and lifespans are at an all-time low. > > > On Jun 3, 2005, at 11:43 PM, Llundrub wrote: > > > What's the problem with Kali and Kali yuga? Where does it say Kali > > Yuga is evil and fucked up? In fact the human life span is supposed to > > increase to a huge length before Maitrya comes in 50,000 years from > > now. You could be in for a surprise: http://www.shareintl.org To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: TMO ishta mantras in India
No, we can't - so say MMY in the Guru Purnima tape from 1982. Ingegerd > On Jun 4, 2005, at 8:07 AM, TurquoiseB wrote: > > > > >> Working classes will want to take the power of the rajas and > >> obtain the knowledge, lifestyle of the rajas. > > > > Can't have that. > > > >> Most leaders will come from the working class. > > > > Can't have that, either. > > To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: TMO ishta mantras in India
Exactly. A = first letter of Sanskrit alphabet; Ha = last letter M = these are sustained together ; kara = maker. Meaning: all this and everything in between is ME, small ME. On Jun 4, 2005, at 8:08 AM, Peter Sutphen wrote: > "I" thought. Experience of "me". Private and separate > from everything. Actually quite a delusion! > > --- Vaj <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >> ego = ahamkara >> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: TMO ishta mantras in India
On Jun 4, 2005, at 8:07 AM, TurquoiseB wrote: > >> Working classes will want to take the power of the rajas and >> obtain the knowledge, lifestyle of the rajas. > > Can't have that. > >> Most leaders will come from the working class. > > Can't have that, either. Not if we have a "Vedic" civilization. Vedic civilization would be way more bizarre than any of these descriptions. The most central part would be the caste system would return--in some way or fashion. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: TMO ishta mantras in India
Excellent skewering Unc! Just the impetus I needed this morning to kick me off the internet and go and teach my 4 hour child development class. --- TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > The linga purana gives a nice list--remarkably > accurate: > > Can't help but trip on some of the things this > list considers bad about Kaliyuga and how much > more that says about the people compiling the > list than it does Kaliyuga: > > > -no morality, the sacred books no longer > respected, false doctrines > > will spread. > > In other words, people will stop considering us > and *our* doctrines as the only real source of > knowledge. > > > Working classes will want to take the power of the > rajas and > > obtain the knowledge, lifestyle of the rajas. > > Can't have that. > > > Most leaders will come from the working class. > > Can't have that, either. > > > Women who have relationships with several men will > become numerous. > > Bad, bad, BAD women! Notice there is no similar > prediction for men. > > > Base men who gain a little knowledge will declare > themselves sages. > > As opposed to us, of course, who really know the > truth. :-) > > > Ready-cooked food will be for sale. > > So much for the Enlightenment Burger franchises. > :-) > > > The sacred books will be sold on street corners. > > Can't have people having their own access to the > scriptures. They should have to come to us to > have them interpreted "properly" for them. > > > Young girls will sell their virginity. > > Presumably if they gave it away, and to only one > guy, everything would be hunky-dory. > > > Shopkeepers will run dishonest businesses. they > will be surrounded > > by pretentious, false philosophers. > > As opposed to us. :-) > > > People will massacre women, children, cows and one > another. > > Presumably it is Ok to massacre women who have > relationships with more than one man. > > > The number of rajas will greatly decline. > > Not if Maharishi has his way. :-) > > Unc > > > > > > > To subscribe, send a message to: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Or go to: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ > and click 'Join This Group!' > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: TMO ishta mantras in India
"I" thought. Experience of "me". Private and separate from everything. Actually quite a delusion! --- Vaj <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > ego = ahamkara > > On Jun 4, 2005, at 2:44 AM, sparaig wrote: > > > I don't think that MMY is talking about the same > kind of ego that > > others are. > > > > To subscribe, send a message to: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Or go to: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ > and click 'Join This Group!' > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: TMO ishta mantras in India
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > The linga purana gives a nice list--remarkably accurate: Can't help but trip on some of the things this list considers bad about Kaliyuga and how much more that says about the people compiling the list than it does Kaliyuga: > -no morality, the sacred books no longer respected, false doctrines > will spread. In other words, people will stop considering us and *our* doctrines as the only real source of knowledge. > Working classes will want to take the power of the rajas and > obtain the knowledge, lifestyle of the rajas. Can't have that. > Most leaders will come from the working class. Can't have that, either. > Women who have relationships with several men will become numerous. Bad, bad, BAD women! Notice there is no similar prediction for men. > Base men who gain a little knowledge will declare themselves sages. As opposed to us, of course, who really know the truth. :-) > Ready-cooked food will be for sale. So much for the Enlightenment Burger franchises. :-) > The sacred books will be sold on street corners. Can't have people having their own access to the scriptures. They should have to come to us to have them interpreted "properly" for them. > Young girls will sell their virginity. Presumably if they gave it away, and to only one guy, everything would be hunky-dory. > Shopkeepers will run dishonest businesses. they will be surrounded > by pretentious, false philosophers. As opposed to us. :-) > People will massacre women, children, cows and one another. Presumably it is Ok to massacre women who have relationships with more than one man. > The number of rajas will greatly decline. Not if Maharishi has his way. :-) Unc To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: TMO ishta mantras in India
ego = ahamkara On Jun 4, 2005, at 2:44 AM, sparaig wrote: > I don't think that MMY is talking about the same kind of ego that > others are. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: TMO ishta mantras in India
On Jun 4, 2005, at 12:23 AM, Rick Archer wrote: > Maharishi explicitly stated, in a lecture at Harvard Law School and > elsewhere, that we don't relinquish or destroy the ego with his path, > but > rather make it bigger, stronger, etc., until it becomes as big as the > whole > universe. Amma commented (not with reference to MMY) that this path > can work > but is dangerous. Yeah, absolutely this is dangerous. I would suspect what this would engender would be people setting themselves up as teachers and selling their wares, websites, slick marketing, etcand this is exactly what has happened. It is essential to emphasize kindness, especially to people interested in higher teaching. If a person cannot really connect to a sense of kindness toward others, then the teachings can simply be distorted into a method of cultivating some form of sanctified misanthropy. Enlightenment is supposed to be naturally connected with the thought of enlightenment of everyone--and this manifests thru compassion, that way you automatically not only retain a connection to other beings, you spontaneously act on their behalf. "All you need is love." -the Four Sages ;-) To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: TMO ishta mantras in India
--- Rick Archer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > on 6/3/05 7:29 PM, Vaj at [EMAIL PROTECTED] > wrote: > > > > > On Jun 3, 2005, at 5:57 PM, Peter Sutphen wrote: > > > >>> > >>> Ego-inflation is an OK thing if it gets the job > >>> done. > >> > >> What is the job and when is it done and how in > the > >> world will an arrogant ego help this? > > > > It may be just they are being trained like their > "master"--to attain > > "Black Rudra"--the form of enlightenment where the > ego is not > > relinquished. It is believed by some that a number > of the charismatic > > holymen selling their wares and oh so prevalent > nowadays fall in this > > category. > > Maharishi explicitly stated, in a lecture at Harvard > Law School and > elsewhere, that we don't relinquish or destroy the > ego with his path, but > rather make it bigger, stronger, etc., until it > becomes as big as the whole > universe. Amma commented (not with reference to MMY) > that this path can work > but is dangerous. Several years ago I asked SSRS about my experience of ego annihilation. He said enlightenment can start that way or with identification and inclusion of everything in awareness. He didn't indicate that one was more or less dangerous than another. But it was a brief conversation. > > > > > > To subscribe, send a message to: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Or go to: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ > and click 'Join This Group!' > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > __ Discover Yahoo! Stay in touch with email, IM, photo sharing and more. Check it out! http://discover.yahoo.com/stayintouch.html To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: TMO ishta mantras in India
The linga purana gives a nice list--remarkably accurate: -no morality, the sacred books no longer respected, false doctrines will spread. The number of farmers will gradually decline. Working classes will want to take the power of the rajas and obtain the knowledge, lifestyle of the rajas. Most leaders will come from the working class. Fetuses will be killed in the stomachs of their mothers and heroes will be assassinated. Thieves will become kings and kings will be thieves. Women who have relationships with several men will become numerous. The earth produces plenty in some areas and too little in others. Rulers will confiscate property and use it badly. They will cease to protect the people themselves. Base men who gain a little knowledge will declare themselves sages. Priests will degrade themselves by the selling of sacraments. Predatory animals will become more violent. Men of integrity will cease to play an active role. Ready-cooked food will be for sale. The sacred books will be sold on street corners. Young girls will sell their virginity. The god of clouds will be inconsistent in the distribution of the rains. Shopkeepers will run dishonest businesses. they will be surrounded by pretentious, false philosophers. Many beggars and unemployed. Everyone will use hard and vulgar language. No one will be able to trust anyone else. No one will want to return a favor. People will massacre women, children, cows and one another. The number of rajas will greatly decline.. etc... and lifespans are at an all-time low. On Jun 3, 2005, at 11:43 PM, Llundrub wrote: > What's the problem with Kali and Kali yuga? Where does it say Kali > Yuga is evil and fucked up? In fact the human life span is supposed to > increase to a huge length before Maitrya comes in 50,000 years from > now. There's other benefits. That kali Yuga line is old, and tired, > and very anti Kali, and I know you know that making fun of Kali is > seriously fucked up. Kali yuga is only screwed up for people of the > wheel. Otherewise it's samsara at its finest. Enjoy Bodhisattva, > there's lots of time yet, to pass, to play! To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: TMO ishta mantras in India
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > on 6/3/05 7:29 PM, Vaj at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > > > > On Jun 3, 2005, at 5:57 PM, Peter Sutphen wrote: > > > >>> > >>> Ego-inflation is an OK thing if it gets the job > >>> done. > >> > >> What is the job and when is it done and how in the > >> world will an arrogant ego help this? > > > > It may be just they are being trained like their "master"--to attain > > "Black Rudra"--the form of enlightenment where the ego is not > > relinquished. It is believed by some that a number of the charismatic > > holymen selling their wares and oh so prevalent nowadays fall in this > > category. > > Maharishi explicitly stated, in a lecture at Harvard Law School and > elsewhere, that we don't relinquish or destroy the ego with his path, but > rather make it bigger, stronger, etc., until it becomes as big as the whole > universe. Amma commented (not with reference to MMY) that this path can work > but is dangerous. I don't think that MMY is talking about the same kind of ego that others are. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: TMO ishta mantras in India
on 6/3/05 7:29 PM, Vaj at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > On Jun 3, 2005, at 5:57 PM, Peter Sutphen wrote: > >>> >>> Ego-inflation is an OK thing if it gets the job >>> done. >> >> What is the job and when is it done and how in the >> world will an arrogant ego help this? > > It may be just they are being trained like their "master"--to attain > "Black Rudra"--the form of enlightenment where the ego is not > relinquished. It is believed by some that a number of the charismatic > holymen selling their wares and oh so prevalent nowadays fall in this > category. Maharishi explicitly stated, in a lecture at Harvard Law School and elsewhere, that we don't relinquish or destroy the ego with his path, but rather make it bigger, stronger, etc., until it becomes as big as the whole universe. Amma commented (not with reference to MMY) that this path can work but is dangerous. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: TMO ishta mantras in India
What's the problem with Kali and Kali yuga? Where does it say Kali Yuga is evil and fucked up? In fact the human life span is supposed to increase to a huge length before Maitrya comes in 50,000 years from now. There's other benefits. That kali Yuga line is old, and tired, and very anti Kali, and I know you know that making fun of Kali is seriously fucked up. Kali yuga is only screwed up for people of the wheel. Otherewise it's samsara at its finest. Enjoy Bodhisattva, there's lots of time yet, to pass, to play! - Original Message - From: Vaj To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, June 03, 2005 10:28 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: TMO ishta mantras in India There's nuttin' esoteric about one-pointed egoity instead of enlightenment. It's a fixture in the kali-yuga.On Jun 3, 2005, at 9:18 PM, Llundrub wrote:> Don't you think that's a bit esoteric?To subscribe, send a message to:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/and click 'Join This Group!' To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to:http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: TMO ishta mantras in India
There's nuttin' esoteric about one-pointed egoity instead of enlightenment. It's a fixture in the kali-yuga. On Jun 3, 2005, at 9:18 PM, Llundrub wrote: > Don't you think that's a bit esoteric? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: TMO ishta mantras in India
Black rudra.now that does sound nasty. Left-handed tantra or sumpin' --- Llundrub <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Don't you think that's a bit esoteric? > > > > It may be just they are being trained like their > "master"--to attain > "Black Rudra"--the form of enlightenment where the > ego is not > relinquished. It is believed by some that a number > of the charismatic > holymen selling their wares and oh so prevalent > nowadays fall in this > category. > > > > > I honestly don't think this concept relates to the > Pratyekabuddha. Besides, as you well know Vaj, both > Rudra and Ravana are both Buddhadharma protectors. > So this Rudraness is ok. __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: TMO ishta mantras in India
Don't you think that's a bit esoteric? It may be just they are being trained like their "master"--to attain "Black Rudra"--the form of enlightenment where the ego is not relinquished. It is believed by some that a number of the charismatic holymen selling their wares and oh so prevalent nowadays fall in this category. I honestly don't think this concept relates to the Pratyekabuddha. Besides, as you well know Vaj, both Rudra and Ravana are both Buddhadharma protectors. So this Rudraness is ok. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to:http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: TMO ishta mantras in India
On Jun 3, 2005, at 5:57 PM, Peter Sutphen wrote: >> >> Ego-inflation is an OK thing if it gets the job >> done. > > What is the job and when is it done and how in the > world will an arrogant ego help this? It may be just they are being trained like their "master"--to attain "Black Rudra"--the form of enlightenment where the ego is not relinquished. It is believed by some that a number of the charismatic holymen selling their wares and oh so prevalent nowadays fall in this category. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: TMO ishta mantras in India
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter Sutphen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > --- sparaig <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "claudiouk" > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > wrote: > > > > What I remember, as a mere meditator here... > > > > > > We're all mere meditators here. > > > > > > Unless you buy into the nouveau caste system of > > > Governors, Rajas, Recerts, and Mothers Divine > > > that some promote to inflate ego. > > > > > > > Ego-inflation is an OK thing if it gets the job > > done. > > What is the job and when is it done and how in the > world will an arrogant ego help this? > > Ego-inflation isn't necessarily the same as arrogant. and the job will be done when it is done. In the case of rajas and TM, who can say? > > > > > > > > > > To subscribe, send a message to: > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > Or go to: > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ > > and click 'Join This Group!' > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > __ > Discover Yahoo! > Find restaurants, movies, travel and more fun for the weekend. Check it out! > http://discover.yahoo.com/weekend.html To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: TMO ishta mantras in India
--- sparaig <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "claudiouk" > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > wrote: > > > What I remember, as a mere meditator here... > > > > We're all mere meditators here. > > > > Unless you buy into the nouveau caste system of > > Governors, Rajas, Recerts, and Mothers Divine > > that some promote to inflate ego. > > > > Ego-inflation is an OK thing if it gets the job > done. What is the job and when is it done and how in the world will an arrogant ego help this? > > > > > To subscribe, send a message to: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Or go to: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ > and click 'Join This Group!' > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > __ Discover Yahoo! Find restaurants, movies, travel and more fun for the weekend. Check it out! http://discover.yahoo.com/weekend.html To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: TMO ishta mantras in India
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "claudiouk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > > What I remember, as a mere meditator here... > > We're all mere meditators here. > > Unless you buy into the nouveau caste system of > Governors, Rajas, Recerts, and Mothers Divine > that some promote to inflate ego. > Ego-inflation is an OK thing if it gets the job done. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: TMO ishta mantras in India
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, gerbal88 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Quiet and silence come naturally. The mantra is somewhat artificial, > a tool, one among many, to keep us on track so that the natural part > can take place. The Buddhists generally use the breath as this basic > or core tool, keeping mind and body together. > > Where I see an important distinction to be made between what > Maharishi teaches (or at least what he taught when I spend a couple > of years with him) and what the Buddhists teach is that "meaning" > comes quite early in the Buddhist teaching. One learns the > intellectual basics if not first then concurrent with the experience > of samâdih; i.e., knowing what you are doing, understanding what is > going on is on an equal footing with the practice/experience itself. > To have a simple technique to relax and silence your mind is important.The basic TM-technique is good for many people in accomplishing that. But it is even more vital to learn to understand and work with the process how we make meaning. The TMO is not doing a good job in that except in a reverse way. We learn much better these things from the world around. Then there are also paths like Buddhism that effectively teach us about the meaning making process. Irmeli To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: TMO ishta mantras in India
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "claudiouk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > What I remember, as a mere meditator here... We're all mere meditators here. Unless you buy into the nouveau caste system of Governors, Rajas, Recerts, and Mothers Divine that some promote to inflate ego. Unc To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: TMO ishta mantras in India
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "claudiouk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > What I remember, as a mere meditator here, is MMY saying how at finer > levels of the mantra all the senses fuse. Also my experience nowadays > is that I close the eyes then a vague sense of a "mantra" comes along > and I take THAT as my mantra (not the original clear pronounciation). > So if even an individual mantra fuses with other SENSES, does the > experience of vagueness of the mantra indicate a fusion with other > MANTRAS taking place as well? In which case does it matter what > mantra one uses really, for the purpose of transcending.. And if > there are other purposes, because of reverberations in the finest > relative, why should Vedic words be any better than say, Christian > ones, given that saints in that tradition too have had celestial and > siddhi experiences of equivalent validity.. Long term use of a specific mantra, however it is perceived, might conceivably change the way the brain works differently than using a different mantra would have. There may or may not be a million different mantras that are "valid" for a given individual, each with its own "relative" effects as it is used over the years. MMY uses a certain set. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: TMO ishta mantras in India
Really? Are you sure? --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, t3rinity <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > Someone named "Martin". A person named Trinity answered verifying > > that > > > this was the case. So much for the "meaningless sound" lie ! > > > > > > On May 31, 2005, at 8:14 PM, shukra69 wrote: > > > > > > > I don't find any such post in Alt.meditation.transcendental > > > > who posted it? > > > > > > Um, so sock-puppets prove that something is true. > > > > The only way you'd have this being the case would be if Indian TM > > teachers were on a different course than non-Indians. Is THISthe case? > > Of course, they have special courses in India to train TM teachers. > But it also means that the TM taught in the west is not the same as in > India. > > > A little common sense goes a long way... To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: TMO ishta mantras in India
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, gerbal88 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: [...] > I'd appreciate your thoughts here. > > G The way that can be spoken is not the Constant Way. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: TMO ishta mantras in India
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > on 6/2/05 3:32 PM, t3rinity at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > > > My australian friends, who where his followers, also teach Mantra > > meditation http://www.biamenetwork.net > > Are you Australian? No, I am German. Ken and Elisabeth Mellor are Australian. > Do you know a guy named Cary Coutelas? No, sorry. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: TMO ishta mantras in India
I see. Thanks for the clarification. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > No, just different levels of meaning at different levels of practice of > mantra--from the particular to the universal vision of your devata. > > On Jun 2, 2005, at 11:44 AM, jim_flanegin wrote: > > > This makes sense, in resolving this meaningless vs meaning of the > > mantra discussion; going from a vocalized mantra to a vehicle for > > transcendence to a realized form. Is this what you meant? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: TMO ishta mantras in India
On Jun 1, 2005, at 10:59 PM, Robert Gimbel wrote: > -If one holds a specific meaning of a mantra, it seems to me, that one > is not only holding a limiting value of meaning, but is getting caught > on a superficial level, instead of transcending to the deeper levels > of consciousness. > More important than any specific meaning, is the ability to transcend > using the sound, the vibration, of the mantra. > The whole misunderstanding of meditation, I believe, is the notion, of > getting caught up on meaning, rather than transcending all meaning and > establishing consciousness, in that field which is transcendental to > all meaning... "The words, their significance and the relationship between the two are eternal." -Vararuchi commenting on Panini. At one level they are separate, in the transcendent they are one, but they are still always connected. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: TMO ishta mantras in India
On Jun 2, 2005, at 5:33 PM, claudiouk wrote: > Also my experience nowadays > is that I close the eyes then a vague sense of a "mantra" comes along > and I take THAT as my mantra (not the original clear pronounciation). > So if even an individual mantra fuses with other SENSES, does the > experience of vagueness of the mantra indicate a fusion with other > MANTRAS taking place as well? Sure sounds that way. There's a level of mantra where--even if your mantra is a long chain of sounds--they are experienced as just a mass of energy without any separation between word one, word two, etc. As a great sage said 'no syllables in a word, no parts in a letter, nor any distinguishable words in sentences of sound...' > In which case does it matter what > mantra one uses really, for the purpose of transcending.. Well, opinions vary. Different paths, different ways. If one wishes to follow the path of Swami Brahmananda Saravati then one wants to experience the universal vision of devata. In that case form follows name... To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: TMO ishta mantras in India
What I remember, as a mere meditator here, is MMY saying how at finer levels of the mantra all the senses fuse. Also my experience nowadays is that I close the eyes then a vague sense of a "mantra" comes along and I take THAT as my mantra (not the original clear pronounciation). So if even an individual mantra fuses with other SENSES, does the experience of vagueness of the mantra indicate a fusion with other MANTRAS taking place as well? In which case does it matter what mantra one uses really, for the purpose of transcending.. And if there are other purposes, because of reverberations in the finest relative, why should Vedic words be any better than say, Christian ones, given that saints in that tradition too have had celestial and siddhi experiences of equivalent validity.. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Premanand Paul Mason" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, t3rinity <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Robert Gimbel" > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > -If one holds a specific meaning of a mantra, it seems to me, that > > one > > > is not only holding a limiting value of meaning, but is getting > > caught > > > on a superficial level, instead of transcending to the deeper > > levels > > > of consciousness. > > > > Right. Lets suppose your mantra was 'Raam' und you think Raam is a > > specific Avatar of Vishnu, it is wrong, because Raam does not > signify > > a specific God. I have seen teachers saying this. I'll post you a > > webpage later. Guru Dev says, that you should see your Ishta > > (supposedly you have an Istha and believe in it, as GD was talking > to > > an Indian audience) in everything, and in every other God, and in > the > > whole creation, then the mantra looses actually its specific > > conotations. He is the virtually asking for the mantra to loose any > > specific limiting meaning. It is virtually all and nothing, not any > > idea whe have of whatsoever God. Simply speaking Raam doesn't denote > > the Avatar anymore. > > > > This is SERIOUSLY clear thinking! Thank you. > > > In the Ramacharitmanas, which according to Rick was Guru Devs > > favorate > > scripture, Raam itself is the body of God. At one moment the > scripture > > even says that the mantra is more important than God himself, and it > > equally holds the view that it is the 'all wish fulfilling tree', so > > to say the cure-all as what TM was always marketed, and that it is > > equally potent without knowing any meaning. IOW the vibration of the > > mantra in itself is seen as the means and not something it denotes. > Of > > course this is from a Hindu POV. But see its implications. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: TMO ishta mantras in India/Mantra/Ra is (The Sun) in Egypt..
--- The Pharoh is pictured with the symbol 'Ank' which is also used
by the Catholic Church, with the circle above the cross...
To me, 'Ank' seems symbolic of "Shakti', and in that regard, the
pharoh is pictured radiating Shakti to his people, through 'RA'.
Ramm Shakti Hanaman...
In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Robert Gimbel" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
> --One of the Pharohs{Ankanantan}, who, more or less, started his
> own "religion", taught that "Atma" was contained in the sun, and
> that as he alligned himself with "Ra" (the sun),then and through
the
> power of "Ra" he could lead his people as the 'benevalent
King...
> people...'
>
> - In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, t3rinity <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, t3rinity <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote:
> >
> > > Right. Lets suppose your mantra was 'Raam' und you think Raam
is
> a
> > > specific Avatar of Vishnu, it is wrong, because Raam does not
> > signify
> > > a specific God. I have seen teachers saying this. I'll post
you a
> > > webpage later.
> >
> > Here is the quote of another teacher. He died in 1993 and I am
> friends
> > with some disciples of him (He had millions of followers in
India,
> > supposedly 9 million, I don't know if its true):
> >
> > " The Nama "Ram Narayan Ram" does not refer to any god.but
refers
> to
> > the Great Void. Anything big is called "Ram". All that we see,
> > understand and know combined together is "Ram".
> > #
> > "Narayan" refers to Universal Tune, and not to any god.
> > #
> > Chanting of this Holy Nama is beneficial for widening our mental
> > horizon."
> >
http://web.archive.org/web/20040615083947/http://ramnarayanram.com/
> >
> > My australian friends, who where his followers, also teach Mantra
> > meditation http://www.biamenetwork.net
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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: TMO ishta mantras in India
No, just different levels of meaning at different levels of practice of mantra--from the particular to the universal vision of your devata. On Jun 2, 2005, at 11:44 AM, jim_flanegin wrote: > This makes sense, in resolving this meaningless vs meaning of the > mantra discussion; going from a vocalized mantra to a vehicle for > transcendence to a realized form. Is this what you meant? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: TMO ishta mantras in India/Mantra/Ra is (The Sun) in Egypt..
--One of the Pharohs{Ankanantan}, who, more or less, started his
own "religion", taught that "Atma" was contained in the sun, and
that as he alligned himself with "Ra" (the sun),then and through the
power of "Ra" he could lead his people as the 'benevalent King...
people...'
- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, t3rinity <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, t3rinity <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
>
> > Right. Lets suppose your mantra was 'Raam' und you think Raam is
a
> > specific Avatar of Vishnu, it is wrong, because Raam does not
> signify
> > a specific God. I have seen teachers saying this. I'll post you a
> > webpage later.
>
> Here is the quote of another teacher. He died in 1993 and I am
friends
> with some disciples of him (He had millions of followers in India,
> supposedly 9 million, I don't know if its true):
>
> " The Nama "Ram Narayan Ram" does not refer to any god.but refers
to
> the Great Void. Anything big is called "Ram". All that we see,
> understand and know combined together is "Ram".
> #
> "Narayan" refers to Universal Tune, and not to any god.
> #
> Chanting of this Holy Nama is beneficial for widening our mental
> horizon."
> http://web.archive.org/web/20040615083947/http://ramnarayanram.com/
>
> My australian friends, who where his followers, also teach Mantra
> meditation http://www.biamenetwork.net
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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: TMO ishta mantras in India
on 6/2/05 3:32 PM, t3rinity at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > My australian friends, who where his followers, also teach Mantra > meditation http://www.biamenetwork.net Are you Australian? Do you know a guy named Cary Coutelas? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: TMO ishta mantras in India
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, t3rinity <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Right. Lets suppose your mantra was 'Raam' und you think Raam is a > specific Avatar of Vishnu, it is wrong, because Raam does not signify > a specific God. I have seen teachers saying this. I'll post you a > webpage later. Here is the quote of another teacher. He died in 1993 and I am friends with some disciples of him (He had millions of followers in India, supposedly 9 million, I don't know if its true): " The Nama "Ram Narayan Ram" does not refer to any god.but refers to the Great Void. Anything big is called "Ram". All that we see, understand and know combined together is "Ram". # "Narayan" refers to Universal Tune, and not to any god. # Chanting of this Holy Nama is beneficial for widening our mental horizon." http://web.archive.org/web/20040615083947/http://ramnarayanram.com/ My australian friends, who where his followers, also teach Mantra meditation http://www.biamenetwork.net To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: TMO ishta mantras in India
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, t3rinity <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Robert Gimbel" > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > -If one holds a specific meaning of a mantra, it seems to me, that > one > > is not only holding a limiting value of meaning, but is getting > caught > > on a superficial level, instead of transcending to the deeper > levels > > of consciousness. > > Right. Lets suppose your mantra was 'Raam' und you think Raam is a > specific Avatar of Vishnu, it is wrong, because Raam does not signify > a specific God. I have seen teachers saying this. I'll post you a > webpage later. Guru Dev says, that you should see your Ishta > (supposedly you have an Istha and believe in it, as GD was talking to > an Indian audience) in everything, and in every other God, and in the > whole creation, then the mantra looses actually its specific > conotations. He is the virtually asking for the mantra to loose any > specific limiting meaning. It is virtually all and nothing, not any > idea whe have of whatsoever God. Simply speaking Raam doesn't denote > the Avatar anymore. > This is SERIOUSLY clear thinking! Thank you. > In the Ramacharitmanas, which according to Rick was Guru Devs > favorate > scripture, Raam itself is the body of God. At one moment the scripture > even says that the mantra is more important than God himself, and it > equally holds the view that it is the 'all wish fulfilling tree', so > to say the cure-all as what TM was always marketed, and that it is > equally potent without knowing any meaning. IOW the vibration of the > mantra in itself is seen as the means and not something it denotes. Of > course this is from a Hindu POV. But see its implications. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: TMO ishta mantras in India
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Robert Gimbel" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > -If one holds a specific meaning of a mantra, it seems to me, that one > is not only holding a limiting value of meaning, but is getting caught > on a superficial level, instead of transcending to the deeper levels > of consciousness. Right. Lets suppose your mantra was 'Raam' und you think Raam is a specific Avatar of Vishnu, it is wrong, because Raam does not signify a specific God. I have seen teachers saying this. I'll post you a webpage later. Guru Dev says, that you should see your Ishta (supposedly you have an Istha and believe in it, as GD was talking to an Indian audience) in everything, and in every other God, and in the whole creation, then the mantra looses actually its specific conotations. He is the virtually asking for the mantra to loose any specific limiting meaning. It is virtually all and nothing, not any idea whe have of whatsoever God. Simply speaking Raam doesn't denote the Avatar anymore. In the Ramacharitmanas, which according to Rick was Guru Devs favorate scripture, Raam itself is the body of God. At one moment the scripture even says that the mantra is more important than God himself, and it equally holds the view that it is the 'all wish fulfilling tree', so to say the cure-all as what TM was always marketed, and that it is equally potent without knowing any meaning. IOW the vibration of the mantra in itself is seen as the means and not something it denotes. Of course this is from a Hindu POV. But see its implications. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: TMO ishta mantras in India
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Someone named "Martin". A person named Trinity answered verifying > that > > this was the case. So much for the "meaningless sound" lie ! > > > > On May 31, 2005, at 8:14 PM, shukra69 wrote: > > > > > I don't find any such post in Alt.meditation.transcendental > > > who posted it? > > > Um, so sock-puppets prove that something is true. > > The only way you'd have this being the case would be if Indian TM > teachers were on a different course than non-Indians. Is THISthe case? Of course, they have special courses in India to train TM teachers. But it also means that the TM taught in the west is not the same as in India. > A little common sense goes a long way... To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: TMO ishta mantras in India
Vaj said: In traditions which use mantra as a path, the initial part of the path the mantra is used for "transcending". Later, in order to get the full benefit of the mantra, it's meaning is investigated at different levels. There is more to a mantra than it's translation into vaikhari (vocalized speech). -- Transcendence is the beginning stage, meaning comes later. - I have no reason to argue with this; but if we go back to the basics of Maharishi's "transcendental" meditation and look at the core teaching found in the checking procedure, we find something that I think is really, really astounding and has been there for nearly 40 years: "when we close the eyes, naturally we feel some quiet, some silence". Quiet and silence come naturally. The mantra is somewhat artificial, a tool, one among many, to keep us on track so that the natural part can take place. The Buddhists generally use the breath as this basic or core tool, keeping mind and body together. Where I see an important distinction to be made between what Maharishi teaches (or at least what he taught when I spend a couple of years with him) and what the Buddhists teach is that "meaning" comes quite early in the Buddhist teaching. One learns the intellectual basics if not first then concurrent with the experience of samâdih; i.e., knowing what you are doing, understanding what is going on is on an equal footing with the practice/experience itself. I didn't see this, particularly, in the `old days' when the emphasis was on *just meditate and the rest will come by itself*. I am not so sure that "meaning" comes by itself. In a Buddhist sense, as far as I understand it, meaning and insight are synonymous while meaning and intellectual-knowing are not. Meaning and insight or meaning and understanding have to be supported by two things: teachings (intellectual-knowing) and experience (samâdhi). I didn't see this so much in the TM tradition, which is why I got fed up with Maharishi's "teachings" which seemed to be more like crabgrass spreading across a lawn than a well thought out teaching taking us from point A to point B in a comprehensible and meaningful way. In both cases, Buddhist and TM, you can just do the basic meditation and find that you feel pretty good and that life smoothes out some the of wrinkles we were stumbling over before. But I am not sure that Maharishi's teachings are any help in this regard, there is just more and more to do, learn, "buy" to take the place of beneficial, meaningful teachings leading to greater awareness and the "meaning" of the transcendent. I'd appreciate your thoughts here. G To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: TMO ishta mantras in India
This makes sense, in resolving this meaningless vs meaning of the mantra discussion; going from a vocalized mantra to a vehicle for transcendence to a realized form. Is this what you meant? --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > In traditions which use mantra as a path, the initial part of the path > the mantra is used for "transcending". Later, in order to get the full > benefit of the mantra, it's meaning is investigated at different > levels. There is more to a mantra than it's translation into vaikhari > (vocalized speech). > > Transcendence is the beginning stage, meaning comes later. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: TMO ishta mantras in India
Of course it could be from enlightenment. On Jun 2, 2005, at 9:01 AM, sparaig wrote: > But what makes you think that comprehension of "meaning" isn't due to > enlightenment, rather than the other way around? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: TMO ishta mantras in India
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > No, both are part of the process (or 'technique' if you prefer) of > mantra-yoga. > > Meaning does not necessarily imply (in this instance) intellectual > understanding. > > On Jun 2, 2005, at 7:33 AM, sparaig wrote: > > > So meaning trumps transcendence? But what makes you think that comprehension of "meaning" isn't due to enlightenment, rather than the other way around? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: TMO ishta mantras in India
No, both are part of the process (or 'technique' if you prefer) of mantra-yoga. Meaning does not necessarily imply (in this instance) intellectual understanding. On Jun 2, 2005, at 7:33 AM, sparaig wrote: > So meaning trumps transcendence? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: TMO ishta mantras in India
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > On Jun 1, 2005, at 10:59 PM, Robert Gimbel wrote: > > > -If one holds a specific meaning of a mantra, it seems to me, that one > > is not only holding a limiting value of meaning, but is getting caught > > on a superficial level, instead of transcending to the deeper levels > > of consciousness. > > More important than any specific meaning, is the ability to transcend > > using the sound, the vibration, of the mantra. > > The whole misunderstanding of meditation, I believe, is the notion, of > > getting caught up on meaning, rather than transcending all meaning and > > establishing consciousness, in that field which is transcendental to > > all meaning... > > In traditions which use mantra as a path, the initial part of the path > the mantra is used for "transcending". Later, in order to get the full > benefit of the mantra, it's meaning is investigated at different > levels. There is more to a mantra than it's translation into vaikhari > (vocalized speech). > > Transcendence is the beginning stage, meaning comes later. So meaning trumps transcendence? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: TMO ishta mantras in India
On Jun 1, 2005, at 10:59 PM, Robert Gimbel wrote: > -If one holds a specific meaning of a mantra, it seems to me, that one > is not only holding a limiting value of meaning, but is getting caught > on a superficial level, instead of transcending to the deeper levels > of consciousness. > More important than any specific meaning, is the ability to transcend > using the sound, the vibration, of the mantra. > The whole misunderstanding of meditation, I believe, is the notion, of > getting caught up on meaning, rather than transcending all meaning and > establishing consciousness, in that field which is transcendental to > all meaning... In traditions which use mantra as a path, the initial part of the path the mantra is used for "transcending". Later, in order to get the full benefit of the mantra, it's meaning is investigated at different levels. There is more to a mantra than it's translation into vaikhari (vocalized speech). Transcendence is the beginning stage, meaning comes later. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: TMO ishta mantras in India
--true, and very missed! - In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > on 6/2/05 12:04 AM, Robert Gimbel at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > > ---'excuse me, while I kiss the sky." r.g. seattle, wa. > > > No, J.H., Seattle, WA To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: TMO ishta mantras in India
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Robert Gimbel" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > -If one holds a specific meaning of a mantra, it seems to me, that one > is not only holding a limiting value of meaning, but is getting caught > on a superficial level, instead of transcending to the deeper levels > of consciousness. > More important than any specific meaning, is the ability to transcend > using the sound, the vibration, of the mantra. > The whole misunderstanding of meditation, I believe, is the notion, of > getting caught up on meaning, rather than transcending all meaning and > establishing consciousness, in that field which is transcendental to > all meaning... 2 Corinthians 3:5-6 Not that we are adequate in ourselves to consider anything as coming from ourselves, but our adequacy is from God, who also made us adequate as servants of a new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: TMO ishta mantras in India
on 6/2/05 12:04 AM, Robert Gimbel at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > ---'excuse me, while I kiss the sky." r.g. seattle, wa. > No, J.H., Seattle, WA To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: TMO ishta mantras in India
---'excuse me, while I kiss the sky." r.g. seattle, wa. In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Robert Gimbel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > > Seems to me, that we are all different aspects of God... > > And that maybe He should go back on his antipsychotic meds... :-) To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: TMO ishta mantras in India
yeah, the difference between riding a bicycle and getting somewhere, and staring at one, figuring out how it works. I suppose both activities have value, depending on what you the goal is. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Robert Gimbel" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > -If one holds a specific meaning of a mantra, it seems to me, that one > is not only holding a limiting value of meaning, but is getting caught > on a superficial level, instead of transcending to the deeper levels > of consciousness. > More important than any specific meaning, is the ability to transcend > using the sound, the vibration, of the mantra. > The whole misunderstanding of meditation, I believe, is the notion, of > getting caught up on meaning, rather than transcending all meaning and > establishing consciousness, in that field which is transcendental to > all meaning... > > -- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Llundrub" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > Heh. So, common sense tells me esoteric Hindu/Vedic details? > > > > MMY doesn't teach meaningful mantras, by his own explanation of how > TM > > works. > > > > > > > > =What does Mahalakshmi mean exactly? What does Mahakali mean > exactly? These devas exist in the energetic realm that is outside of > our exact space/time frame. Therefore meditation on them is outside of > conventional meaning. Without losing nothing of the meaning > of "meaningless sounds" the mantras can still have deep meanings. Just > like the word, MAH, is meaningless and has vague notions to most but > specific notions to those who use the word Mah for their mother. These > mantras are especially meaningless to Westerners but not so to those > in India. "Meaningless sounds" is merely a rhetorical device... To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: TMO ishta mantras in India
And the specific meaning of Mahalakshmi is? And the specific meaning of Mahakali is? Shrim, Shirim, shiring, etc... Krim, kirim, kiring, etc... get it? Where is the meaning? One can't even figure out the meaning of a person's face, let alone a cosmic deity. To think there's a meaning to ones spouse is to lose the reality beyond purpose and forget life itself. How is there a meaning to one that one can't even touch, see, or hear? Where is the meaning surface or otherwise? Where's the meanning of 2 plus 2 for that matter? So many sounds and even concepts have no meaning when taken out of context. Bob, Jim, Jack, Jill, Bill, Sam, these are all meaningless. What is the difference? The difference is the Sanskrit base of the mantras which makes them bija based. They aren't bijas exactly because they have more than one syllable. But they are ipso facto taken from the Sri Vidya 16 syllable mantra. Any dope should find it obvious given Guru Dev's affiliation with Sri Vidya. Then a bit of pulsatory syllabic addition to make them more brainwave entraining and voilaTM - Original Message - From: Robert Gimbel To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, June 01, 2005 9:59 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: TMO ishta mantras in India -If one holds a specific meaning of a mantra, it seems to me, that one is not only holding a limiting value of meaning, but is getting caught on a superficial level, instead of transcending to the deeper levels of consciousness. More important than any specific meaning, is the ability to transcend using the sound, the vibration, of the mantra.The whole misunderstanding of meditation, I believe, is the notion, of getting caught up on meaning, rather than transcending all meaning and establishing consciousness, in that field which is transcendental to all meaning...-- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Llundrub" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:> > Heh. So, common sense tells me esoteric Hindu/Vedic details?> > MMY doesn't teach meaningful mantras, by his own explanation of how TM > works.> > > > =What does Mahalakshmi mean exactly? What does Mahakali mean exactly? These devas exist in the energetic realm that is outside of our exact space/time frame. Therefore meditation on them is outside of conventional meaning. Without losing nothing of the meaning of "meaningless sounds" the mantras can still have deep meanings. Just like the word, MAH, is meaningless and has vague notions to most but specific notions to those who use the word Mah for their mother. These mantras are especially meaningless to Westerners but not so to those in India. "Meaningless sounds" is merely a rhetorical device...To subscribe, send a message to:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/and click 'Join This Group!' To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to:http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: TMO ishta mantras in India
-If one holds a specific meaning of a mantra, it seems to me, that one is not only holding a limiting value of meaning, but is getting caught on a superficial level, instead of transcending to the deeper levels of consciousness. More important than any specific meaning, is the ability to transcend using the sound, the vibration, of the mantra. The whole misunderstanding of meditation, I believe, is the notion, of getting caught up on meaning, rather than transcending all meaning and establishing consciousness, in that field which is transcendental to all meaning... -- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Llundrub" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Heh. So, common sense tells me esoteric Hindu/Vedic details? > > MMY doesn't teach meaningful mantras, by his own explanation of how TM > works. > > > > =What does Mahalakshmi mean exactly? What does Mahakali mean exactly? These devas exist in the energetic realm that is outside of our exact space/time frame. Therefore meditation on them is outside of conventional meaning. Without losing nothing of the meaning of "meaningless sounds" the mantras can still have deep meanings. Just like the word, MAH, is meaningless and has vague notions to most but specific notions to those who use the word Mah for their mother. These mantras are especially meaningless to Westerners but not so to those in India. "Meaningless sounds" is merely a rhetorical device... To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: TMO ishta mantras in India
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Llundrub" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Heh. So, common sense tells me esoteric Hindu/Vedic details? > > MMY doesn't teach meaningful mantras, by his own explanation of how TM > works. > > > > =What does Mahalakshmi mean exactly? What does Mahakali mean exactly? These devas exist in the energetic realm that is outside of our exact space/time frame. Therefore meditation on them is outside of conventional meaning. Without losing nothing of the meaning of "meaningless sounds" the mantras can still have deep meanings. Just like the word, MAH, is meaningless and has vague notions to most but specific notions to those who use the word Mah for their mother. These mantras are especially meaningless to Westerners but not so to those in India. "Meaningless sounds" is merely a rhetorical device... At the very least (at the very,VERY least), MMY's TM technique doesn't emphasize the meaning of the mantra the way some other techniques do, such as the Ananda marga technique I posted earlier. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: TMO ishta mantras in India
Heh. So, common sense tells me esoteric Hindu/Vedic details?MMY doesn't teach meaningful mantras, by his own explanation of how TM works.=What does Mahalakshmi mean exactly? What does Mahakali mean exactly? These devas exist in the energetic realm that is outside of our exact space/time frame. Therefore meditation on them is outside of conventional meaning. Without losing nothing of the meaning of "meaningless sounds" the mantras can still have deep meanings. Just like the word, MAH, is meaningless and has vague notions to most but specific notions to those who use the word Mah for their mother. These mantras are especially meaningless to Westerners but not so to those in India. "Meaningless sounds" is merely a rhetorical device... To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to:http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: TMO ishta mantras in India
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > On Jun 1, 2005, at 5:45 PM, sparaig wrote: > > > The only way you'd have this being the case would be if Indian TM > > teachers were on a different course than non-Indians. Is THISthe case? > > > > > > A little common sense goes a long way... > > > > A little common sense should have told you that they weren't > "meaningless" at all. They're Ishta mantras plain and simple. Heh. So, common sense tells me esoteric Hindu/Vedic details? MMY doesn't teach meaningful mantras, by his own explanation of how TM works. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
