Re: [FairfieldLife] vedic democracy - a contradiction?

2009-02-27 Thread Vaj


On Feb 27, 2009, at 4:10 PM, claudiouk wrote:


One aspect of MMY's teachings that seems hopelessly "unenlightened"
to me was his take on democracy, which he saw as socially devisive
and irresponsible. For instance he talked disparangely about the
Labour Party in the UK, believing that mere "labourers", totally
uneducated, were running the country.

Yet some of his key political ideas seem oddly "democratic", eg:

(1) Government = reflection of collective consciousness of the people
(2) Ideal Society = self-governing individuals, attuned to Natural Law

I saw a video today where MMY again attacked democracy and praised
the Vedic division of society into four groups on the basis of birth -
albeit in terms of Jyotish rather than socio-economic class. The
whole thing just grates with me - also the gender divisions
increasingly apparent in the Movement.

Just wondering what FFL participants make of all this (sorry if it's
been discussed before..)! Is it possible to argue the case for a
VEDIC Democracy?



In regards to the gender divisions, I'll share a post from another  
list, it's about not being able to express negativity, and being  
institutionally pathological about not even acknowledging the shadow.  
I have much more respect for someone who can embrace their shadow and  
the collective shadow. Those gurus who refuse to acknowledge a shadow  
and present themselves as "shadowless" are always the ones we have to  
worry the most about. Of course if you're ignoring the marginalization  
of the feminine in your org, that's a real dead canary in the coal  
mine for me:


It's interesting, because I have much more respect for those who can  
share their triumphs...and their failings, with at least some approach  
towards equanimity and then towards action. Avoidance of parts of life  
as "negativity" that cannot be spoken just seems so counterintuitive  
to me now.


Jack Kornfield tells the story of meetings he helps convene yearly  
which are meetings of various Buddhist teachers, from all the great  
schools. On one particular year, it was held at the residence of Dalai  
Lama in Dharamshala, India. The topic was Buddhism in the modern  
world, and the difficulties they encountered. The room was filled with  
teachers whose teachings and actions had given benefits to thousands  
and thousands of people. They spoke of their great successes and their  
joy in being part of them.


But then it came time to speak of their problems, their failures and  
shortcomings. It became clear that spiritual life is not entirely  
harmonious. There were individual struggles and there were individual  
neuroses. There were areas of prejudice and areas of blindness.


One woman in particular pointed out how difficult it was to simply be  
female or to express feminine wisdom in the Buddhist community. She  
pointed to all the beautiful statues and paintings that filled the  
room they were in...and how they were allmale.


Then she asked all those in the room to close their eyes to meditate  
with her and to imagine they were entering the room anew, but that  
they instead bowed to the 14th female Dalai Lama. With her were  
advisors who had always been female. Surrounding them were statues and  
paintings of beings, all in women's bodies. Of course it was never  
taught in the teachings that there was anything lesser about being a  
man. Despite that the men hung out on the periphery and when  
everything was over, it was their job to clean and cook.


At the end of her meditation, all the men opened their eyes, somewhat  
astonished. Then, Ani Tenzin Palmo, a Tibetan Buddhist nun who was  
raised as the daughter of an English fishmonger and who had trained  
for 20 years--12 of them in caves on the Tibetan border--spoke. In her  
gentle voice, she described the spiritual longing and the incredible  
hardships of women who can only remain on the edge of the monasteries  
happenings, often without teachings, food or support.


When she finished, the Dalai Lama put his head, in his hands...and  
wept. He pledged his foremost support to revise the place of women in  
his community to one of more equality.


There was no sense I got from Jack's story that these experiences  
needed to be shunted or avoided somehow. Instead they were embraced in  
such a way that they could move forward. That's not to say that  
everything somehow miraculously changed, but at least the fuller  
reality was acknowledged as much as possible.


In my current way of seeing things, it's hard for me to imagine any  
real evolution taking place without such earned equanimity. It would  
be impossible for me to respect a teacher who could not also embrace  
this everyday paradox that is our condition.

[FairfieldLife] vedic democracy - a contradiction?

2009-02-27 Thread claudiouk
One aspect of MMY's teachings that seems hopelessly "unenlightened" 
to me was his take on democracy, which he saw as socially devisive 
and irresponsible. For instance he talked disparangely about the 
Labour Party in the UK, believing that mere "labourers", totally 
uneducated, were running the country.

Yet some of his key political ideas seem oddly "democratic", eg:

(1) Government = reflection of collective consciousness of the people
(2) Ideal Society = self-governing individuals, attuned to Natural Law

I saw a video today where MMY again attacked democracy and praised 
the Vedic division of society into four groups on the basis of birth -
albeit in terms of Jyotish rather than socio-economic class. The 
whole thing just grates with me - also the gender divisions 
increasingly apparent in the Movement.

Just wondering what FFL participants make of all this (sorry if it's 
been discussed before..)! Is it possible to argue the case for a 
VEDIC Democracy?