Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Feedback to the TM Movement
typical Movement shenanigans that came straight from Marshy's energy - do as I say but not as I do From: Buck To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, April 5, 2013 3:54 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Feedback to the TM Movement Would seem that the ultra- strict preservationist Bevan side of the movement reversed Hagelin's more progressive re-write of the guidelines from a little while ago that allowed people more generally to see saints. Meanwhile all kinds of movement people, rajas, purusha, see saints in dissonance with the guidelines. Bottom line of the Bevan people is that People should surrender, either cease and desist from seeing saints or get out now. The course office [more strictly under MUM/Bevan admin] evidently continues to work at this line of restriction. Seems very unfortunate for the Dome numbers and people coming back to Fairfield. > > It's very unfortunate news for the Fairfield Dome community that they have > returned to the strict anti-saint policy, considering how many people went > over to India and saw saints just recently. Purusha in India continues to > see saints. Down in Boone meditators see saints. So much for the flower of > the movement. John Douglas comes to Fairfield in just a few days. > http://www.spirit-repair.com/shop/workshops > > > > > > Trouble? For the community? > > Well yes, things evidently went backwards recently with the movement > > guidelines. Talked to someone just recently, an old movement campaigner > > who was denied employment up there because would not sign a paper pledging > > to never see saints again. This is a highly competent long time movement > > person in the community that they had sought out for employment in to a > > position. After the discussion the person turned around and called the > > course office people to check the guidelines and it was confirmed the > > guidelines are back again to old governors not seeing saints to be involved > > with the movement. > > > > > > > > >Thanks for taking the time and having the courage to post this here. > > > > your last six words bothered me just a little. In what way? As in > > > > fearful of repercussions for expressing one's opinions? If so, do you > > > > really feel this way? > > > > > > > > > > Trouble? > > > Yes, someone in the course office could view [judge] Trowbridge as being > > > negative and un-stressing in the act of posting his letter. As JT > > > values coming back to the group meditation he could have created trouble > > > for himself. Tru-believers in the middle easily could see Trowbridge > > > being disloyal and lacking in fealty. > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, laughinggull108 wrote: > > > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Buck" wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Beautiful. Thanks for taking the time and having the courage to post > > > > > this here. > > > > > -Buck in the Dome > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ditto. In fact, worth saying again: *Beautiful*, Mr. Trowbridge. > > > > Perhaps it will be read by people with the ability to affect the > > > > changes of which you write. > > > > > > > > your last six words bothered me just a little. In what way? As in > > > > fearful of repercussions for expressing one's opinions? If so, do you > > > > really feel this way? > > > > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "jwtrowbridge" > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > I would like to give feedback from the perspective of one who loves > > > > > > TM, but not how the organization is run. I have wanted to do so for > > > > > > many years. I feel I have a unique perspective to do so. I am not > > > > > > angry. I am not dependent on TM other than my wonderful program I > > > > > > practice. I have no ax to grind other than a genuine desire to see > > > > > > the organization succeed. I wish to help this organization from the > > > > > > point of view of one who is a family man, a professional who sees > > > > > > the divinity of my practice, and the missteps of the organization. > > > > > > > > > > > > My TM program is the only time during the day that I know my > > > > > > activity is perfect. It is a perfect program. It is a perfect > > > > > > activity. It is perfect knowledge. I have recently obtained all of > > > > > > the advanced techniques. I have missed maybe five meditations in 40 > > > > > > years only because I enjoy it. There is no other reason. Not for > > > > > > health, not for enlightenment, such is the joy and power of my > > > > > > program. > > > > > > > > > > > > I have just finished 34 years as a public school teacher in North > > > > > > Carolina, and I am still teaching. I have been married 30 years. I > > > > > > have two children. My wife meditates. My two children have been > > > > > > initiated. From the beginning, I have provided support to the TM > > > > > > Movement through the use
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Feedback to the TM Movement
TMO likes wealthy Jews to keep 'em goin' From: feste37 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, April 5, 2013 10:53 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Feedback to the TM Movement How many Jews has the TMO killed? --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson wrote: > > The TMO rules are analogous to the Nazi regime rules and in some senses the > TMO itself has been compared to the Nazi regime because: > > 1 - Marshy used to praise Hitler > > 2 - German Purusha, who should be focusing on enlightenment and world peace > have been reported as wearing German swastikas underneath their ties and > celebrating Hitler's Birthday in Movement facilities (yet they have so-called > standards about music and other vibes that are supposedly off the program) > > 3 - The rules of the Nazi regime served the interests of the regime overall > and its leaders over the real best interests of the people of the German > state, even those in the Nazi party in many instances. Same story for the TMO. > > 4 - Everyone under the Nazi regime was expected to > march in lock-step (or should I say goose-step) with whatever arbitrary and > capricious orders were handed down from on high. Same deal for the TMO. > > 5 - Infractions of the rules were dealt with in a harsh and unfair fashion by > the Nazis. Same deal for the TMO. > > 6 - Many low, mid, and upper level managers of the Nazi regime were > hidebound, stupid and unable to express real creativity. Same for the TMO. > > 7 - The rules of the Nazi Party were created and administered in an unfair > capricious manner that was ultimately to the detriment of the German people > and the party itself. Same for the TMO. > > 8 - As Barry had mentioned there have been times that official TM reps have > grilled and interrogated meditators and those seeking to advance in the > Movement as to whether or not the applicants are actually marching in lock > step with the TM Movement. I believe the Nazis were famous for such > activities. > > 9 - Much like the Nazis, many upper level TM people have a great sense of > elitism, > entitlement and superiority to non-meditators and even those who are beneath > them in the Movement. > > 10 - Like the Nazi regime, the TM Movement does not want people to engage in > independent thinking, but rather to think whatever the TMO tells them to > think. > >  > I could come up with more obvious comparisons but I have other things to do > today. > > > > > From: feste37 > To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Friday, April 5, 2013 9:53 AM > Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Feedback to the TM Movement > > >  > Ah, yes, "Nazi-like." Of course. What took you so long? You should pick this > up and run with it, Michael. If you take a look back in the archives you will > find plenty of valuable references, enough to keep you frothing at the mouth > for days or possibly even weeks. Nazi-like! Nazi-like! I advise you not to > stop and ask yourself, "In what sense, precisely, are the rules of the TMO, > 'Nazi-like'." That would just spoil all the fun. > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson wrote: > > > > It's got nothing to do with different instructions for different people - > > the TMO is just like Marshy was capricious and unfair - and lots of the > > absurd "rules" are very Nazi-like -no wonder Nappy likes 'em. > > > > Besides, not seeing the so-called "saints" has to do with only one thing - > > not wanting people to give ANY credit for experiences to anything other > > than the TMO, and to try to prevent gifts, payments and donations to ANYONE > > other than the TMO, cuz a donation to Amma, Sri Sri Ravi or any other > > "saint" is dollars that the TMO doesn't get. > > > > It costs a whole heap of money to feed the Movement and they don't want to > > miss a penny. > > > > > > > > > > > > From: nablusoss1008 > > To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com > > Sent: Friday, April 5, 2013 5:57 AM > > Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Feedback to the TM Movement > > > > > >  > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Buck" wrote: > > > > > > It's very unfortunate news for the Fairfield Dome community that they > > > have returned to the strict anti-saint policy, considering how many > > > people went over to India and saw saints just recently. Purusha in India > > > continues to see saints. Down in Boone meditators see saints. So much > > > for the flower of the movement. > > > > Maharishi gave different instructions to different groups for a reason. > > Different strokes for different people. Stop whining and learn to live with > > it. There are rules everywhere, every company and org have their own > > regulations. Those that can't accept that are free to start their own group. > > >
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Feedback to the TM Movement
The TMO rules are analogous to the Nazi regime rules and in some senses the TMO itself has been compared to the Nazi regime because: 1 - Marshy used to praise Hitler 2 - German Purusha, who should be focusing on enlightenment and world peace have been reported as wearing German swastikas underneath their ties and celebrating Hitler's Birthday in Movement facilities (yet they have so-called standards about music and other vibes that are supposedly off the program) 3 - The rules of the Nazi regime served the interests of the regime overall and its leaders over the real best interests of the people of the German state, even those in the Nazi party in many instances. Same story for the TMO. 4 - Everyone under the Nazi regime was expected to march in lock-step (or should I say goose-step) with whatever arbitrary and capricious orders were handed down from on high. Same deal for the TMO. 5 - Infractions of the rules were dealt with in a harsh and unfair fashion by the Nazis. Same deal for the TMO. 6 - Many low, mid, and upper level managers of the Nazi regime were hidebound, stupid and unable to express real creativity. Same for the TMO. 7 - The rules of the Nazi Party were created and administered in an unfair capricious manner that was ultimately to the detriment of the German people and the party itself. Same for the TMO. 8 - As Barry had mentioned there have been times that official TM reps have grilled and interrogated meditators and those seeking to advance in the Movement as to whether or not the applicants are actually marching in lock step with the TM Movement. I believe the Nazis were famous for such activities. 9 - Much like the Nazis, many upper level TM people have a great sense of elitism, entitlement and superiority to non-meditators and even those who are beneath them in the Movement. 10 - Like the Nazi regime, the TM Movement does not want people to engage in independent thinking, but rather to think whatever the TMO tells them to think. I could come up with more obvious comparisons but I have other things to do today. From: feste37 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, April 5, 2013 9:53 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Feedback to the TM Movement Ah, yes, "Nazi-like." Of course. What took you so long? You should pick this up and run with it, Michael. If you take a look back in the archives you will find plenty of valuable references, enough to keep you frothing at the mouth for days or possibly even weeks. Nazi-like! Nazi-like! I advise you not to stop and ask yourself, "In what sense, precisely, are the rules of the TMO, 'Nazi-like'." That would just spoil all the fun. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson wrote: > > It's got nothing to do with different instructions for different people - the > TMO is just like Marshy was capricious and unfair -Â and lots of the absurd > "rules" are very Nazi-like -no wonder Nappy likes 'em. > > Besides, not seeing the so-called "saints" has to do with only one thing - > not wanting people to give ANY credit for experiences to anything other than > the TMO, and to try to prevent gifts, payments and donations to ANYONE other > than the TMO, cuz a donation to Amma, Sri Sri Ravi or any other "saint" is > dollars that the TMO doesn't get. > > It costs a whole heap of money to feed the Movement and they don't want to > miss a penny. > > > > > > From: nablusoss1008 > To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Friday, April 5, 2013 5:57 AM > Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Feedback to the TM Movement > > > Â > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Buck" wrote: > > > > It's very unfortunate news for the Fairfield Dome community that they have > > returned to the strict anti-saint policy, considering how many people went > > over to India and saw saints just recently. Purusha in India continues to > > see saints. Down in Boone meditators see saints. So much for the flower > > of the movement. > > Maharishi gave different instructions to different groups for a reason. > Different strokes for different people. Stop whining and learn to live with > it. There are rules everywhere, every company and org have their own > regulations. Those that can't accept that are free to start their own group. >
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Feedback to the TM Movement
It's got nothing to do with different instructions for different people - the TMO is just like Marshy was capricious and unfair - and lots of the absurd "rules" are very Nazi-like -no wonder Nappy likes 'em. Besides, not seeing the so-called "saints" has to do with only one thing - not wanting people to give ANY credit for experiences to anything other than the TMO, and to try to prevent gifts, payments and donations to ANYONE other than the TMO, cuz a donation to Amma, Sri Sri Ravi or any other "saint" is dollars that the TMO doesn't get. It costs a whole heap of money to feed the Movement and they don't want to miss a penny. From: nablusoss1008 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, April 5, 2013 5:57 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Feedback to the TM Movement --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Buck" wrote: > > It's very unfortunate news for the Fairfield Dome community that they have > returned to the strict anti-saint policy, considering how many people went > over to India and saw saints just recently. Purusha in India continues to > see saints. Down in Boone meditators see saints. So much for the flower of > the movement. Maharishi gave different instructions to different groups for a reason. Different strokes for different people. Stop whining and learn to live with it. There are rules everywhere, every company and org have their own regulations. Those that can't accept that are free to start their own group.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Feedback to the TM Movement
A couple of questions about this - how many levels of experience are they counting and what are they? The other question is, what do they do with this info - as in if 500 people have level 2 experiences on Thursday, what does that mean? And how do they take the polls of what experiences are happening? Do they have you fill out forms or something? From: jwtrowbridge To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, April 4, 2013 5:48 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Feedback to the TM Movement Level 1 experiences are counted for percentages everyday in the dome, men, women, vedic city, special groups, etc. It is the experience of bliss becoming blissful. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson wrote: > > I am not familiar with what Level 1 experiences mean - I haven't been to > Fairfield since I was on staff at MIU in the 1980's > > > > > > From: jwtrowbridge > To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Wednesday, April 3, 2013 6:33 PM > Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Feedback to the TM Movement > > >  > Thanks Michael. I will just keep going on doing what I do. I love my program, > but I have never been financially dependent on anyone from the TMO. I feel I > have the best of both worlds. I am grounded and enjoy my work. I contribute, > and the knowledge, my experiences have always been fantastic. If I did not > get anything from the technique I would not practice it a week. The truly > devoted are the ones in the Dome who are part of the 50% who keep coming back > and report daily no level 1 experiences. > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson wrote: > > > > Having read your ideas about the Movement it gives me a good feeling that > > there are people with common sense who want something that has been good > > for them to blossom and prosper. Even having left TM years ago, I do > > understand the feeling doing program gives one, I recently did my TMSP > > after years of not doing so and it felt good. > > > > I sincerely believe the only way for you to fulfill the desires you have > > for the Movement is to walk away from the TM Movement and create one of > > your own. Others have done so, thereby giving a fresh venue for teaching > > and promoting the technique that is so meaningful to you. > > > > The TM Movement has never really existed to do what you want it to do. I > > spent years wondering why something that felt so good to me and had such > > high goals and spoke about itself in such glowing terms could produce such > > unkind, unhelpful people who administered the Movement - how could the > > practice of the TM technique not create a group of individuals who > > administered the Movement intelligently, lovingly, and efficiently? > > > > As long as I believed that Maharishi was enlightened and somehow in some > > unknown way, the excesses and omissions of the people who ran the Movement > > were some sort of aberrant anomalies and that one day it would all balance > > out, the Movement would straighten itself out and people would actually be > > well taken care of in all phases and aspects of their dealings with the > > TMO, much of what Maharishi did and none of what the TMO did made any sense. > > > > When I realized that Maharishi was not enlightened, and used his Movement > > to further his desires to, in essence, be a big shot, gain wealth and have > > a revolving door of sex partners, it all fell into place. This means that > > the people who ran and still run the Movement learned at his feet and > > realize that anything they want to do is alright as long as they remain in > > charge and get paid. > > > > The idea that Bevan, Tony and the rest will ever give any authority to a > > Board of Directors is something that will never happen. They will not give > > up power - the TMO gives them everything. When is the last time any of > > them had to worry about paying rent? How to pay the utilities? When is the > > last time they had to wash their own clothes? Make their own meals? These > > guys live like princes and they won't give it up. > > > > They will never put others needs and desires above their own need to be in > > charge and keep getting paid, just like their former leader - and just like > > M putting these guys in charge, who do you think these guys will pick to > > follow them? The exact same energy will be passed on in the next generation > > of leadership. > > > > Get together with all the responsible teachers with common sense who feel > > the way you do, organize your own Movement and get out while the getting is > > good. > > > > I have mentioned once or twice before that Girish, and the Srivastavas > > brothers still run the Maharishi Group which I believe still owns all the > > property that MUM is occupying, both the land and buildings. If the day > > comes when they feel the revenue comi
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Feedback to the TM Movement
I don't think Buck consider that good news - who would except TM fanatics? From: nablusoss1008 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, April 4, 2013 5:28 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Feedback to the TM Movement --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Buck" wrote: > > Well yes, things evidently went backwards recently with the movement > guidelines. Talked to someone just recently, an old movement campaigner who > was denied employment up there because would not sign a paper pledging to > never see saints again. This is a highly competent long time movement person > in the community that they had sought out for employment in to a position. > After the discussion the person turned around and called the course office > people to check the guidelines and it was confirmed the guidelines are back > again to old governors not seeing saints to be involved with the movement. Very good news Buck, thanks for posting.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Feedback to the TM Movement
I am not familiar with what Level 1 experiences mean - I haven't been to Fairfield since I was on staff at MIU in the 1980's From: jwtrowbridge To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, April 3, 2013 6:33 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Feedback to the TM Movement Thanks Michael. I will just keep going on doing what I do. I love my program, but I have never been financially dependent on anyone from the TMO. I feel I have the best of both worlds. I am grounded and enjoy my work. I contribute, and the knowledge, my experiences have always been fantastic. If I did not get anything from the technique I would not practice it a week. The truly devoted are the ones in the Dome who are part of the 50% who keep coming back and report daily no level 1 experiences. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson wrote: > > Having read your ideas about the Movement it gives me a good feeling that > there are people with common sense who want something that has been good for > them to blossom and prosper. Even having left TM years ago, I do understand > the feeling doing program gives one, I recently did my TMSP after years of > not doing so and it felt good. > > I sincerely believe the only way for you to fulfill the desires you have for > the Movement is to walk away from the TM Movement and create one of your own. > Others have done so, thereby giving a fresh venue for teaching and promoting > the technique that is so meaningful to you. > > The TM Movement has never really existed to do what you want it to do. I > spent years wondering why something that felt so good to me and had such high > goals and spoke about itself in such glowing terms could produce such unkind, > unhelpful people who administered the Movement - how could the practice of > the TM technique not create a group of individuals who administered the > Movement intelligently, lovingly, and efficiently? > > As long as I believed that Maharishi was enlightened and somehow in some > unknown way, the excesses and omissions of the people who ran the Movement > were some sort of aberrant anomalies and that one day it would all balance > out, the Movement would straighten itself out and people would actually be > well taken care of in all phases and aspects of their dealings with the TMO, > much of what Maharishi did and none of what the TMO did made any sense. > > When I realized that Maharishi was not enlightened, and used his Movement to > further his desires to, in essence, be a big shot, gain wealth and have a > revolving door of sex partners, it all fell into place. This means that the > people who ran and still run the Movement learned at his feet and realize > that anything they want to do is alright as long as they remain in charge and > get paid. > > The idea that Bevan, Tony and the rest will ever give any authority to a > Board of Directors is something that will never happen. They will not give up > power - the TMO gives them everything. When is the last time any of them > had to worry about paying rent? How to pay the utilities? When is the last > time they had to wash their own clothes? Make their own meals? These guys > live like princes and they won't give it up. > > They will never put others needs and desires above their own need to be in > charge and keep getting paid, just like their former leader - and just like M > putting these guys in charge, who do you think these guys will pick to follow > them? The exact same energy will be passed on in the next generation of > leadership. > > Get together with all the responsible teachers with common sense who feel the > way you do, organize your own Movement and get out while the getting is good. > > I have mentioned once or twice before that Girish, and the Srivastavas > brothers still run the Maharishi Group which I believe still owns all the > property that MUM is occupying, both the land and buildings. If the day comes > when they feel the revenue coming to them from MUM isn't satisfying them, > they will sell off the university holdings in a heartbeat, and you will be > without the Domes anyway. They have already begun this process in India, and > I believe they are doing so because they know the Movement is running out of > steam and won't give them the money they are used to. So create your own > Movement - why continue to trust people and a Movement that have betrayed > your trust for decades? > > > > > > From: jwtrowbridge > To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Monday, April 1, 2013 8:25 AM > Subject: [FairfieldLife] Feedback to the TM Movement > > >  > I would like to give feedback from the perspective of one who loves TM, but > not how the organization is run. I have wanted to do so for many years. I > feel I have a unique perspective to do so. I am not angry. I am not dependent > on TM other than my wonder
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Feedback to the TM Movement
"Thus Maharishi's focus shifted and the TMO as we know it became in many ways obsolete, left unattended also by it's own Founder simply because it had no more function other than being the safekeeper of the purity of the teaching. No small task, but the real job of securing permanent world peace was given to the Rajas and the Vedic Pundits, a responsebility that remains theirs to this day." So who had responsibility for "securing world permanent world peace" between 1979 when Nabby claims Marshy lifted his middle finger to the Movement and many years later when he began using the pundits and later the rajas? From: Buck To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, April 2, 2013 2:13 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Feedback to the TM Movement Just in for a quick lunch and catching up. Beautifully explained, Nablusoss. Thanks. A taliban's version of the New TM Movement. Very tight, I like the last two paragraphs that really catch the ultra-tru-believer's element in this for perspective. Many are the interested elements in this community. It is hard to say any one thing about meditators or the movement. It's a bit of a three-ring circus to watch. -Buck out standing in his field. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablusoss1008 wrote: > > Thanks John, beautiful post in it's positivity. And unique on this forum > because you are one of perhaps only 5 posters here altogether that does TM > regularily and have a non-agressive take on the TMO. So your idea of sending > it here was perhaps a bit too enthusiastic, it will unfortunately only fuel > more vile attacs on the TMO from the regulars here, most of whom have not > done TM in decades. > > Aside from that it is impossible to disagree with you on any point, except > for perhaps the most important; your idea that the > > "The goal of this organization is not to appeal to a particular leader or > person, but to the widest possible audience who will appreciate and practice > the TM program in its purity." > and > "reach the widest possible audience who will appreciate and practice the > TM program in its purity. This is the goal. This is what the TM organization > is about." > > This is a widespread misunderstanding due largely to being stuck in > Maharishi's old thinking or having been exposed only to this timeframe of > Maharishi's philosophy on video, strategies that were perfect until about > 1985. As the Age of Enlightenment grew and became an irreversible process the > old thinking based on the individual was replaced with the concern for > groups, and ultimately the whole world. Already in 1980, after having > prevented the WWII during the winther of 1979, Maharishi said "From today no > more meditators are necessary". Thus Maharishi's focus shifted and the TMO as > we know it became in many ways obsolete, left unattended also by it's own > Founder simply because it had no more function other than being the > safekeeper of the purity of the teaching. No small task, but the real job of > securing permanent world peace was given to the Rajas and the Vedic Pundits, > a responsebility that remains theirs to this day. > > So my advice to you would be to "stay calm and carry on". Continue with your > beautiful programme, knowing that some obstacles like bad smell or bad food > or whatever will be thown into the mix at regular intervals, they don't > matter much. Forget about the mismanagement of the TMO, it is irrelevant for > you. Forget that the TMO must become in better shape to save the world, they > won't and their task isn't. Let them do their bit as you do yours, life is > too short to waste on such small things. > One last thing; please see as many as possible of Maharishi's newest tapes > that are available on youtube. Perhaps what I've stated above will be > clearer. Thank you again for your well meaning post. > Jai Guru Dev >
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Feedback to the TM Movement
Good one Steve. Smiley face. > > From: seventhray27 >To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com >Sent: Monday, April 1, 2013 9:01 PM >Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Feedback to the TM Movement > > > >http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QEpCud53c2s > >--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Emily Reyn wrote: >> >> "They are also waiting for a few more people to die off..." Â Excellent >> strategy to avoid conflict. Â >> >> >> >> > >> > From: Buck dhamiltony2k5@... >> >To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com >> >Sent: Monday, April 1, 2013 8:33 PM >> >Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Feedback to the TM Movement >> > >> > >> >Â >> >Nice post Wayback, >> >JTowbridge, >> >I did send the link to your FFL letter earlier this morning directly over >> >to Dr. John Hagelin right after you posted it on FFL. He responded back to >> >me immediately too before I went to the Dome. I'm just in from the day's >> >farm work now. The work is going long in the fields with spring upon us >> >now. I stopped earlier and meditated along in time with the large group >> >tonite while I was on my tractor. Frankly the New TM Movement is >> >incorporating more over-sight and process within its workings. It's dynamic >> >and changing. Things started changing from back before and around when >> >Maharishi died. There are different elements within it still including some >> >strict preservationists who obstruct change but things are also >> >progressive. I would say from talking with folks inside that some yet are >> >essentially afraid to be more transparent in process because they fear >> >someone like MJ coming along and being negative. But in a direction of more >> >transparency is >> coming. The strict preservationists have nothing to fear but fear itself. I >> think your paper is a good common-sense advocacy for better management >> practices that are actively being figured out more by committee process as J >> Hagelin has been setting about engaging people in that kind of process. They >> are also waiting for a few more people to die off as there is an active >> preparing of a younger set going on to take over. These are very exciting >> times within TM. It is in re-set. I agree, may the Unified Field save the >> group meditation. >> >-Buck >> > >> >--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Susan" wayback71@ wrote: >> >> >> >> I too really enjoyed your post, Mr Trowbridge. It was genuine and so >> >> right on. Loved your points about conflict. In the name of being >> >> "positive," so much has been overlooked, not dealt with, and repressed. >> >> At every level. And for those whose very livelihood revolved around all >> >> this for some years, it took a real toll. The frustration of trying to >> >> get a "problem" dealt with was incredible - because the person was >> >> considered to be unstressing or negative. A really unhealthy system >> >> evolved. Anyway, you said it all so well and I thank you for that. >> >> I suspect that in posting it here on FFL, it will be read by the people >> >> you are talking to. My guess is that the big issue on the inside is >> >> whether to try and mimic exactly how MMY ran the TMO or whether to modify >> >> that so as to appeal to more people. Not modify the teaching, but the >> >> organization, how it is run, the way rules are "enforced," how to handle >> >> conflict. I think a lot will depend on how that unfolds now and in the >> >> next decade as Bevan and John and the rajas begin to retire. Not that the >> >> TMO needs to become a corporate place, but it is all so very fuzzy and >> >> odd and seemingly going to end with our generation unless things change. >> >> Too much garbage being dragged along to interest the younger generation. >> >> But TM is pure gold for you? Lucky guy. >> >> >> >> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "jwtrowbridge" >> >> wrote: >> >> > >> >> > Thank you, a beautiful response, and I will carry on. I go by my own >> >> > experiences. This has always been my guide, and my experiences daily >> >> > have been magnificent. The program is pure gold. Thanks, >> >> > >> >> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablusoss1008 wrote: >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablusoss1008 wrote: >> >> > > > >> >> > > > Thanks John, beautiful post in it's positivity. And unique on this >> >> > > > forum because you are one of perhaps only 5 posters here altogether >> >> > > > that does TM regularily and have a non-agressive take on the TMO. >> >> > > > So your idea of sending it here was perhaps a bit too enthusiastic, >> >> > > > it will unfortunately only fuel more vile attacs on the TMO from >> >> > > > the regulars here, most of whom have not done TM in decades. >> >> > > > >> >> > > > Aside from that it is impossible to disagree with you on any point, >> >> > > > except for perhaps the most important; your idea that the >> >> >
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Feedback to the TM Movement
"They are also waiting for a few more people to die off..." Excellent strategy to avoid conflict. > > From: Buck >To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com >Sent: Monday, April 1, 2013 8:33 PM >Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Feedback to the TM Movement > > > >Nice post Wayback, >JTowbridge, >I did send the link to your FFL letter earlier this morning directly over to >Dr. John Hagelin right after you posted it on FFL. He responded back to me >immediately too before I went to the Dome. I'm just in from the day's farm >work now. The work is going long in the fields with spring upon us now. I >stopped earlier and meditated along in time with the large group tonite while >I was on my tractor. Frankly the New TM Movement is incorporating more >over-sight and process within its workings. It's dynamic and changing. >Things started changing from back before and around when Maharishi died. >There are different elements within it still including some strict >preservationists who obstruct change but things are also progressive. I would >say from talking with folks inside that some yet are essentially afraid to be >more transparent in process because they fear someone like MJ coming along and > being negative. But in a direction of more transparency is coming. The strict preservationists have nothing to fear but fear itself. I think your paper is a good common-sense advocacy for better management practices that are actively being figured out more by committee process as J Hagelin has been setting about engaging people in that kind of process. They are also waiting for a few more people to die off as there is an active preparing of a younger set going on to take over. These are very exciting times within TM. It is in re-set. I agree, may the Unified Field save the group meditation. >-Buck > >--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Susan" wrote: >> >> I too really enjoyed your post, Mr Trowbridge. It was genuine and so right >> on. Loved your points about conflict. In the name of being "positive," so >> much has been overlooked, not dealt with, and repressed. At every level. >> And for those whose very livelihood revolved around all this for some years, >> it took a real toll. The frustration of trying to get a "problem" dealt with >> was incredible - because the person was considered to be unstressing or >> negative. A really unhealthy system evolved. Anyway, you said it all so well >> and I thank you for that. >> I suspect that in posting it here on FFL, it will be read by the people >> you are talking to. My guess is that the big issue on the inside is whether >> to try and mimic exactly how MMY ran the TMO or whether to modify that so as >> to appeal to more people. Not modify the teaching, but the organization, >> how it is run, the way rules are "enforced," how to handle conflict. I >> think a lot will depend on how that unfolds now and in the next decade as >> Bevan and John and the rajas begin to retire. Not that the TMO needs to >> become a corporate place, but it is all so very fuzzy and odd and seemingly >> going to end with our generation unless things change. Too much garbage >> being dragged along to interest the younger generation. >> But TM is pure gold for you? Lucky guy. >> >> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "jwtrowbridge" >> wrote: >> > >> > Thank you, a beautiful response, and I will carry on. I go by my own >> > experiences. This has always been my guide, and my experiences daily have >> > been magnificent. The program is pure gold. Thanks, >> > >> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablusoss1008 wrote: >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablusoss1008 wrote: >> > > > >> > > > Thanks John, beautiful post in it's positivity. And unique on this >> > > > forum because you are one of perhaps only 5 posters here altogether >> > > > that does TM regularily and have a non-agressive take on the TMO. So >> > > > your idea of sending it here was perhaps a bit too enthusiastic, it >> > > > will unfortunately only fuel more vile attacs on the TMO from the >> > > > regulars here, most of whom have not done TM in decades. >> > > > >> > > > Aside from that it is impossible to disagree with you on any point, >> > > > except for perhaps the most important; your idea that the >> > > > >> > > > "The goal of this organization is not to appeal to a particular leader >> > > > or person, but to the widest possible audience who will appreciate and >> > > > practice the TM program in its purity." >> > > > and >> > > > "reach the widest possible audience who will appreciate and >> > > > practice the TM program in its purity. This is the goal. This is what >> > > > the TM organization is about." >> > > > >> > > > This is a widespread misunderstanding due largely to being stuck in >> > > > Maharishi's old thinking or having been exposed only to this timef
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Feedback to the TM Movement
Except that if such a video existed, it was a lie - TM as it is practiced by the leaders of the TMO IS a religion - a sightly altered form of Hinduism - just look at the celebrations they have all the time - all Hindu celebrations From: sparaig To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, April 1, 2013 7:13 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Feedback to the TM Movement --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "jwtrowbridge" wrote: [...] > For lack of a better expression, I would like to suggest that their needs to > be a separation of church and state. The church is the purity of the > knowledge, and the state is how TM is administrated, the organization. The > organization should consider some of the principles I have suggested. There > is nothing wrong with conflict. Conflict is just an opportunity to solve a > problem. It is how something maladaptive, and disorganized becomes beautiful. > At one point in time MMY directed that all TM centers would be run by the "sidhi parliament," comprised of all the local meditators, while the teaching duties would remain with the TM teachers. The TM teachers, seeing their priesthood threatened, ignored him and insisted in running "their" centers, their way. Another time, MMY heard that TM teachers were making the puja a standard ritual in their own lives in all circumstances and released a video to be shown to all meditators everywhere, where he discussed why he had ensured that TM wasn't a religion. It was shown once, as far as I know, and then virtually every center in the world appears to have conveniently lost track of it, with many gung-ho TMers denying that it ever existed. L L
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Feedback to the TM Movement
Amen! From: salyavin808 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, April 1, 2013 11:35 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Feedback to the TM Movement What's this? Problems in a perfect organisation? I thought "nature" was organising things for the TMO? If you can't trust the teaching that people meditating together spontaneously create harmony then what can you trust? My advice is to quit now before it's too late. The TMO is like it is because that's how Marshy wanted it to be. He chose the people in charge and trained them with everything they know. It isn't a democracy, it never was. I was told that if I didn't like it I knew where the door was. And that the TMO isn't there for my benefit, it's there to change the world. And they won't ever embrace transparency. It was a principle of Marshy that the people who didn't need to know things didn't find out about them. Can you imagine an honest statement about the situation with Marshy's family in India at the moment? You've got to be dreaming! That'd be like admitting that it's all a load of crap. They'll keep quiet about it and pray no one reads the Times of India. Or FFL. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "jwtrowbridge" wrote: > > I would like to give feedback from the perspective of one who loves TM, but > not how the organization is run. I have wanted to do so for many years. I > feel I have a unique perspective to do so. I am not angry. I am not dependent > on TM other than my wonderful program I practice. I have no ax to grind other > than a genuine desire to see the organization succeed. I wish to help this > organization from the point of view of one who is a family man, a > professional who sees the divinity of my practice, and the missteps of the > organization. > > My TM program is the only time during the day that I know my activity is > perfect. It is a perfect program. It is a perfect activity. It is perfect > knowledge. I have recently obtained all of the advanced techniques. I have > missed maybe five meditations in 40 years only because I enjoy it. There is > no other reason. Not for health, not for enlightenment, such is the joy and > power of my program. > > I have just finished 34 years as a public school teacher in North Carolina, > and I am still teaching. I have been married 30 years. I have two children. > My wife meditates. My two children have been initiated. From the beginning, I > have provided support to the TM Movement through the use of my house for > lectures, initiations, and whatever I have to offer all these years. I am > your biggest fan. > > I started TM on November 13th, 1971 and got the sidhis in `80 or `81 at MUM. > I practiced my program by myself over the decades until 5 years ago, when I > went to MUM to fly in the dome for a 7-week visit. I have gone ever 2 years > during the summer thereafter. I have never taken one dime of grant money. > > I mention specific names and impressions in this letter, not to target > individuals, but to show relevant examples of what concerns me. I also want > to describe what could be done differently, especially if you want to have > credibility with Americans. The goal of this organization is not to appeal to > a particular leader or person, but to the widest possible audience who will > appreciate and practice the TM program in its purity. > > 2007: This incident exemplifies so many of the elements of what is wrong with > how the TM organization is managed. When I came 5 years ago, I was in the > dome for the IA course for just a few days when the men's group had to move > because workmen were replacing the roof. We moved to a flying hall near the > swimming pool. Unfortunately, a mistake had been made in preparing the new > hall. The floor and walls had been painted with a toxic, oil-based paint, and > the odor was awful, awful. The air in the new hall was extremely noxious. > Fans in the eaves of the building were run night and day. Sidhas pleaded with > Dr. Doug Birx not to move us into this situation. He said it could not be > helped. I spent one day in the new hall experiencing bliss with an underlying > headache. I never have headaches. > > I walked and hitchhiked to Vedic City to do program for most of the week > instead of going to this toxic hall. Once I was picked up by a Board of > Trustees member. I don't remember his name. In casual conversation, told him > I had not come from North Carolina to huff paint fumes. The next day, > thinking the fumes would be better, I went to fly in the newly painted hall. > It was better, but still not good. During the 10 a.m. experience time, Dr. > Bevan Morris asked Dr. Doug Birx an introductory question, "Is there a > problem with the hall?" I assumed that the trustee I had talked to called Dr. > Morris. Dr. Birx stated no. Who could question the bliss emanating from this > hall? he asked. He added that there were some prob
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Feedback to the TM Movement
Jesus Nabby you are so full of it - you think Marshy prevented WWIII??? Who told you, Benji Creme? Hundreds of people in the Domes can't even prevent murders right on campus. From: nablusoss1008 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, April 1, 2013 3:28 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Feedback to the TM Movement Thanks John, beautiful post in it's positivity. And unique on this forum because you are one of perhaps only 5 posters here altogether that does TM regularily and have a non-agressive take on the TMO. So your idea of sending it here was perhaps a bit too enthusiastic, it will unfortunately only fuel more vile attacs on the TMO from the regulars here, most of whom have not done TM in decades. Aside from that it is impossible to disagree with you on any point, except for perhaps the most important; your idea that the "The goal of this organization is not to appeal to a particular leader or person, but to the widest possible audience who will appreciate and practice the TM program in its purity." and "reach the widest possible audience who will appreciate and practice the TM program in its purity. This is the goal. This is what the TM organization is about." This is a widespread misunderstanding due largely to being stuck in Maharishi's old thinking or having been exposed only to this timeframe of Maharishi's philosophy on video, strategies that were perfect until about 1985. As the Age of Enlightenment grew and became an irreversible process the old thinking based on the individual was replaced with the concern for groups, and ultimately the whole world. Already in 1980, after having prevented the WWII during the winther of 1979, Maharishi said "From today no more meditators are necessary". Thus Maharishi's focus shifted and the TMO as we know it became in many ways obsolete, left unattended also by it's own Founder simply because it had no more function other than being the safekeeper of the purity of the teaching. No small task, but the real job of securing permanent world peace was given to the Rajas and the Vedic Pundits, a responsebility that remains theirs to this day. So my advice to you would be to "stay calm and carry on". Continue with your beautiful programme, knowing that some obstacles like bad smell or bad food or whatever will be thown into the mix at regular intervals, they don't matter much. Forget about the mismanagement of the TMO, it is irrelevant for you. Forget that the TMO must become in better shape to save the world, they won't and their task isn't. Let them do their bit as you do yours, life is too short to waste on such small things. One last thing; please see as many as possible of Maharishi's newest tapes that are available on youtube. Perhaps what I've stated above will be clearer. Thank you again for your well meaning post. Jai Guru Dev
RE: [FairfieldLife] Re: Feedback
From: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Bonnie Rosen Sent: Friday, March 14, 2008 8:55 AM To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Feedback And also, I have in the past sent 2 other emails..but perhaps I never sent them correctly for they never appeared. (I'll usually reasonablely tech friendly! :) ) Another technical point, Bonnie, is that while most people neglect to “snip” unneeded parts of previous posts in their responses, which is a nuisance for many reasons, you snip everything, so sometimes it’s hard to know what point you’re responding to. I would suggest leaving in just a sentence or two, as I have done here. IOW, leave in just the point(s) to which you are responding, and snip the rest. This applies to everyone, not just Bonnie. No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.21.7/1328 - Release Date: 3/13/2008 11:31 AM
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Feedback
--- Sal Sunshine <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Mar 14, 2008, at 8:55 AM, Bonnie Rosen wrote: > > > And it is unfortunate that you now are suggesting > that you have > > negative feelings and thoughts about SSRS. That > is your decision > > and I hope that you can sometime drop that and see > value. > > Bonnie, > Lecturing people and telling them how negative they > supposedly are > usually isn't a great way to begin somewhere. Try > accepting others' > POV as you would like without the value judgements. > > Also, including the comments you're replying to > instead of just > tossing out replies with no reference would be > helpful. > > Sal Cat fight! Cat fight! > > > Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page. http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Feedback
On Mar 14, 2008, at 8:55 AM, Bonnie Rosen wrote: And it is unfortunate that you now are suggesting that you have negative feelings and thoughts about SSRS. That is your decision and I hope that you can sometime drop that and see value. Bonnie, Lecturing people and telling them how negative they supposedly are usually isn't a great way to begin somewhere. Try accepting others' POV as you would like without the value judgements. Also, including the comments you're replying to instead of just tossing out replies with no reference would be helpful. Sal
RE: [FairfieldLife] Re: Feedback
From: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of sparaig Sent: Thursday, March 13, 2008 8:47 PM To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Feedback --- In HYPERLINK "mailto:FairfieldLife%40yahoogroups.com"FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Hey Bonnie, its Peter Sutphen. How are you? FFL's a > pretty tough town, but Guruji can hold his own in here > because when its all said and done its just words. > Fools and their opinions! I get your sentiment though > because I do share it, but I know his reaction would > just be a chuckle. Say hi to Barry for me. > I've always wondered about "Guruji" and MMY but o well, everyone has their own opinion of what "Meditators should beware of 'sweet poison'"" means... It means you can take just about anything MMY said, and find something else he said or did that contradicts it. So don’t interpret anything too strictly. No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.21.7/1328 - Release Date: 3/13/2008 11:31 AM
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Feedback
--- sparaig <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > Hey Bonnie, its Peter Sutphen. How are you? FFL's > a > > pretty tough town, but Guruji can hold his own in > here > > because when its all said and done its just words. > > > Fools and their opinions! I get your sentiment > though > > because I do share it, but I know his reaction > would > > just be a chuckle. Say hi to Barry for me. > > > > > I've always wondered about "Guruji" and MMY but o > well, everyone has their own opinion of > what "Meditators should beware of 'sweet poison'"" > means... > > > Lawson When I heard that comment it never really bothered me because it could only be a compliment from MMY to SSRS. My direct experience with both MMY and SSRS is that they are both deeply, deeply realized beings that radiate infinite being and then some. Guru Dv made MMY; MMY made SSRS. Good on them, mate! Brahman is poison from the side of the relative. It eats every distinction and difference. But SSRS is "sweet." This refers to his personality. And if you know him, you realize that he is a really, really, cool guy. Very natural, relaxed, open. Like your best friend that you hung out with on ATR's or trade fairs at MIU. But it turns out this best friend is Krishna, Lord of the Universe and then some. Oh my! > > > > > To subscribe, send a message to: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Or go to: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ > and click 'Join This Group!'Yahoo! Groups Links > > > mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping
