Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Renouncing enlightenment
You're welcome Doc. And I really liked what you said about not throwing out the baby with the bath water. No matter how dirty that bath water is, keep the baby (-: From: doctordumb...@rocketmail.com doctordumb...@rocketmail.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, February 7, 2013 8:18 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Renouncing enlightenment Thanks for this - I agree completely with it. On FFL there is very little blind obedience to ANYTHING. All of us have been around the block, so what may look to you like inordinate defense of a guru, may in fact be an attempt to get the critics to open their eyes, and examine their legion of blindspots, as they would like others to do. It is not ever a case of kill the messenger, and only an egomaniac would think so. Thanks again.:-) --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Share Long wrote: Hey navashok I really appreciate what you say here especially the part about how mixed our qualities can be. It reminds me of something I see sometimes in older people. I think of it as the second innocence. When they've gone through a lot and been humbled by life. And come out on the other side. Very at peace with it all, even their own flaws which they often have a friendly but firm attitude towards. What I notice in myself is that I can shift from a pride energy to a humble energy or vice versa in a nanosecond. It can happen so fast. I think doing the TMSP has made it easier for me to catch these shifts when they happen. And life is always there to show me what refinement still needs to happen. From: navashok To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, February 7, 2013 4:34 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Renouncing enlightenment  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, seventhray27 wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctordumbass@ wrote: Looks like there's already a flag on the play - Navashok calls roughing the passer, but it looks like the officials will overturn it... The confession is only recent. To me it seems that the guy has strong enlightenment experiences, and actually uncovers deeper layers of conditioning. It has nothing to do with forcefully de-enlightening oneself. To me this guy seems to be very honest and straightforward, so his 'confession' is rather a plus than a minus.. There was a five yard penalty for excessive display of ego, but because the player has acknowledged this, the penalty shall be cancelled. Still first down. A time out will not be assessed. LOL, funny Steve. I don't quite see myself in the role of a judge or a referee, I have my opinions, true, but then they are just that, opinions. I do not condemn anybody, certainly not Cesar, whom I hardly know, I would direct everybody to his FB page because I cannot really speak for him. I also don't judge DrD either. What I believe in is that, after (initial) awakening, there is still a display of ego in many, and that the ongoing work, is all about the PURIFICATION OF INSTRUMENTS (Aurobindo's term). Instruments here relates to all our mental faculties, like mind, intellect, emotion (the subtle bodies) and of course ego. I think there are layers of ego or the sophistication of ego, which I think will get uncovered with time. But to do so, I believe it needs a certain culture, an awareness of it, or maybe as in the case of Cesar, simply a strong degree of sincerity. That's my point, not judging or condemning people. I also believe that in our human field, usually things are mixed up. So, devotion gets mixed with ego/pride, and, as I understand devotion to be a good thing, I think that if it comes at the cost of demeaning other teachers / saints / religions in order to heighten one's own spiritual ideal, then the ego has instrumentalized devotion for it's own purpose.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Renouncing enlightenment
Hey navashok I really appreciate what you say here especially the part about how mixed our qualities can be. It reminds me of something I see sometimes in older people. I think of it as the second innocence. When they've gone through a lot and been humbled by life. And come out on the other side. Very at peace with it all, even their own flaws which they often have a friendly but firm attitude towards. What I notice in myself is that I can shift from a pride energy to a humble energy or vice versa in a nanosecond. It can happen so fast. I think doing the TMSP has made it easier for me to catch these shifts when they happen. And life is always there to show me what refinement still needs to happen. From: navashok no_re...@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, February 7, 2013 4:34 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Renouncing enlightenment --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, seventhray27 wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctordumbass@ wrote: Looks like there's already a flag on the play - Navashok calls roughing the passer, but it looks like the officials will overturn it... The confession is only recent. To me it seems that the guy has strong enlightenment experiences, and actually uncovers deeper layers of conditioning. It has nothing to do with forcefully de-enlightening oneself. To me this guy seems to be very honest and straightforward, so his 'confession' is rather a plus than a minus.. There was a five yard penalty for excessive display of ego, but because the player has acknowledged this, the penalty shall be cancelled. Still first down. A time out will not be assessed. LOL, funny Steve. I don't quite see myself in the role of a judge or a referee, I have my opinions, true, but then they are just that, opinions. I do not condemn anybody, certainly not Cesar, whom I hardly know, I would direct everybody to his FB page because I cannot really speak for him. I also don't judge DrD either. What I believe in is that, after (initial) awakening, there is still a display of ego in many, and that the ongoing work, is all about the PURIFICATION OF INSTRUMENTS (Aurobindo's term). Instruments here relates to all our mental faculties, like mind, intellect, emotion (the subtle bodies) and of course ego. I think there are layers of ego or the sophistication of ego, which I think will get uncovered with time. But to do so, I believe it needs a certain culture, an awareness of it, or maybe as in the case of Cesar, simply a strong degree of sincerity. That's my point, not judging or condemning people. I also believe that in our human field, usually things are mixed up. So, devotion gets mixed with ego/pride, and, as I understand devotion to be a good thing, I think that if it comes at the cost of demeaning other teachers / saints / religions in order to heighten one's own spiritual ideal, then the ego has instrumentalized devotion for it's own purpose.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Renouncing enlightenment
Nope, just passing on what a lot of gurus say. On 02/06/2013 11:46 AM, doctordumb...@rocketmail.com wrote: One should never claim enlightenment but it is perfectly okay to say one is experiencing some enlightenment. Huh?! Who the fuck made you King? You are proclaiming what a person can, and cannot say, about enlightenment?? You are a reasonable person and movie buff, but, We don't nd no steen-keeng Badges! :-) --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu wrote: On 02/06/2013 06:26 AM, navashok wrote: Recently a friend alerted me that an Advaita teacher he knows, Cesar Teruel, 'renounced' his enlightenment, making a 'Confession' at his facebook page https://www.facebook.com/teruelcesar He is on Batgap too http://batgap.com/cesar-teruel/ The confession is only recent. To me it seems that the guy has strong enlightenment experiences, and actually uncovers deeper layers of conditioning. It has nothing to do with forcefully de-enlightening oneself. To me this guy seems to be very honest and straightforward, so his 'confession' is rather a plus than a minus.. Often people who renounce their enlightenment weren't enlightened to begin with. One should never claim enlightenment but it is perfectly okay to say one is experiencing some enlightenment. It is an ongrowing experience. And of course obsessing over enlightenment is an impediment to developing it.
