Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: TM, the Dome Badge, and Religious Practices
On Aug 1, 2012, at 7:18 PM, iranitea wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, feste37 feste37@... wrote: The examples you cite are not of people being controlled by the TMO. They are examples of people being excluded from the dome, which is quite different. No one is being controlled. People are making choices, that's all. If someone excludes you from their club, do you feel controlled? Depends, if the club is the place where I live my life, and if the club makes demands on my life style, and quite possible on my inner attitude, AND make this clear to me in unmistakeble terms, the execute control. TM is more than just a club they joined, which could be substituted by any other club around the corner at any time. It's a lifestyle, and it's a beliefsystem as well. You will notice this once you leave. While it makes sense that dome admins want and need to have everyone compliant if they are to actually be doing 'the same program at the same time'. The not-so-obvious downside of this is people who practice, say Buddhism or Sufism or whatever will have other spiritual teachers and other spiritual practices they do. If such a person is banned from the domes, they'd in effect be banning them from the practice of their own religion of choice. So much for TM not interfering with religion, huh? That's not to say the movement hasn't had problems with things like this before, sometimes from deliberate subterfuge. In the 80's Robin Carlsen created a faux-TM Sidhi practice called Technique for the Discovery of Grace, a bizarre variation of the TMSP, and then had MIU students go to the domes and practice it there, to deliberately stir the pot. Unfortunately Grace left Robin long ago for another man. :-(
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: TM, the Dome Badge, and Religious Practices
On Aug 2, 2012, at 8:35 AM, turquoiseb wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradhatu@... wrote: While it makes sense that dome admins want and need to have everyone compliant if they are to actually be doing 'the same program at the same time'. The not-so-obvious downside of this is people who practice, say Buddhism or Sufism or whatever will have other spiritual teachers and other spiritual practices they do. If such a person is banned from the domes, they'd in effect be banning them from the practice of their own religion of choice. So much for TM not interfering with religion, huh? Interesting. I'm thinking not so much about people being kept from the domes because of their religious practices, but whether the dome program *itself* has ever been an issue for religious people. Well for Jews and Christians there's always been the biblical injunction Thou shalt have no other gods before me. What happens when a TMer arrives at the heavenly gate and Ole St. Pete senses the mantra of another god or goddess neuroplastically locked into their mode of functioning? Purgatory or Hell? Dunno. This little problem was always danced around by Mahesh Co. by claiming the mantras were meaningless sounds. While they are not assigned a specific meaning in the practice of TM, they do, alas, have very specific meanings and gods or goddesses (other than YHVH-1) to which they belong. Say someone is a devout Muslim. They are supposed to pray at certain specified times of the day, without fail. What if the Muslim in question was participating in the dome program and the time for his Maghrib (sunset) prayer rolls around. Is he supposed to move to the side of the dome, spread out his prayer rug, and do his prayers there, before returning to the TM-siddhi program, or is he supposed to skip his Muslim prayers? H. Now that would be interesting to see.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: TM, the Dome Badge, and Religious Practices
Lawson, you make it sound so black and white and I agree that on at least one level it is. However, it's also true that when one admires an organization, one expects it to refrain from using physical force or emotional blackmail with its participants. Especially if that organization teaches a technique that develops the full potential of the individual and society. Wouldn't such development, of both individuals and the organization, allow the problem to be resolved naturally and in a life affirming manner? OTOH I completely support the TMO preventing practitioners of other techniques to do program in the Dome. It sounds like it's been a difficult task to ascertain who is doing such. Herein lies the gray area, sticky wickets, etc. What I sense about TMO these days, is that it is more relaxed about all this. And I could be wrong. I don't know the details of Buck's situation. Or even if he's a gov. As covered here before, govs are expected to be more loyal in their behavior. Last but not least, who are the proper authorities if something immoral is happening?! Share, enjoying your clarity From: sparaig lengli...@cox.net To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, August 2, 2012 8:25 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: TM, the Dome Badge, and Religious Practices Unless, of course, said authorities are attempting to *preserve* the beloved thing by enforcing rules that the person tacitly acknowledged were good when they were a full-fledged participant, simply by virtue of being a full-fledged participant. Now, you can argue that enforcing an unwritten rule about only going to Movement-sanctioned astrologers and gem-therapists is going a bit far, but since just about everyone reading this apparently agrees that a substantial reason why these sanctioned people/organizations exist in the first place is to serve as a fundraiser for the TMO and associated projects (in the case of MAPI, it is written into it's charter, IIRC!), it shouldn't surprise anyone that such rules, formal or informal, exist and that Current Believers™ try to enforce them. So... even quasi-believers, at least when living in Fairfield, IA, national/international HQ of the TM organization, should not be surprised when people try to convince them to follow the guidelines, and it seems silly to object to people trying to get you to follow guidelines overtly designed to keep the Beloved Thing going, if you are STILL going to participate in some way with others in using the Beloved Thing. You can object all you want, but given the nature of the givens, it seems a silly thing to complain about: wanna continue to use our private facilities? Continue to abide, at least in public, with the guidelines that are set up concerning use of our private facilities. If you think something illegal, immoral or unethical is going on, take it to the proper civil/legal authorities. L --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Share Long sharelong60@... wrote: Tea wrote: A more apt comparision would be a relationship, a marriage that breaks up. People are literally married to the movement. The movement is in their brains, not just through meditation (that's the good thing), but also through everything they know and believe. My comment: Extending this analogy I'd say that I got divorced from the TMO but we remain good friends and sometimes even hang out together eg when I go to the Dome. Tea, I sense what you're saying. To use different words: that the authorities threaten individuals with the loss of something beloved unless those individuals do what the authorities want them to do. Is that an accurate way to describe it? If this is truly happening, then no need to worry. Any organization that uses such tactics will destroy itself from the inside out.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: TM, the Dome Badge, and Religious Practices
Tea wrote: As long as people feel this commitment to go to the domes, or as long as they want to participate in the common group program, so long the movement will have you in their hands, they will be able to control people. My reply: Tea, I'm sorry that you've had such a bad experience with the TMO. I wish there were something even now I could do in some zany way, to make amends. Maybe something will come to me. Same for Buck. Meanwhile I want to address what you say above because it relates to what you describe as unforgiveable. I simply want to say that I go to the Dome. AND I do not feel that the TMO has me in their hands nor are controlling me. In fact, if I ponder about it, I don't even think they want to control me. Wouldn't that be silly anyway, given increased field independence with TM? Again I'm sorry for your bad experience with TMO. You do seem mostly at peace about it. I'm grateful for that. And that you're here. And that you've been willing to engage with such a TBer as me (-: From: iranitea no_re...@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, July 29, 2012 9:33 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: TM, the Dome Badge, and Religious Practices When I first signed the agreement form, it as just short before we received the TM initiator initiation, I thought that it was a mere formality, and I thought that the term purity of the teaching related to teaching the 7 steps of TM. 7 steps. Intro lecture, prep lecture, personal interview, initiation - the puja, the mantras, the 'steps', and the 3 days checking. That's it, I thought. But now I learn, that signing this agreement form, was like signing a blanco checque, that anything could be added to this term, be it Ayurveda, Vastu, Maharishi Jyotish, Maharishi natural products etc etc. And now I learn, that the purity of the teaching relates to all of them, and we don't even know what is yet to come, which will fall under this term. The purity of the teaching is really a whore. Knowing all this development, we should have at least have one week of lectures just about the agreement form. I think there was one lecture by Maharishi, playing it more or less down. At the times I signed it first, there were no domes yet, no group flying, no Ayurveda, no Vastu or Maharishi Jyotish, no Maharishi honey etc. What I find unforgivable, is the fact, that the group program, which is really the holy grail of the movement is being instrumentalized as a means of punishment, of sanctioning, and if Buck is correct, to impart the rules they make, would allow them to spy on people and behave in a manner which only the secret service does. And even more so, do this out of a basically economic reason, as several posters here agree. Where is the purity of the teaching in all this? At the moment I learned about the purity of the teaching, it was about 'capture the fort, and all else will be given to you'. No need for special services and add on techniques. Now you are jeopardizing the purity of the teaching if you buy the wrong house, or the wrong honey or the get the wrong horoscope. And of course, you didn't know anything about this, hen you signed this paper at your TTC. As long as people feel this commitment to go to the domes, or as long as they want to participate in the common group program, so long the movement will have you in their hands, they will be able to control people. I cannot feel such a commitment on the basis of the experiences I had when starting to meditate. While I see the value of TM, especially for the beginner, I don't see it's exclusiveness. Transcendence to me predates any experience, I had anticipations of transcendence before TM, I had experiences before too. And, of course, I had many experiences after. So I cannot fee obliged my whole life to one particular experience, and let it enclose my life in one particular pattern. The same is true for you Robin, quite obviously and even much more dramatically, but I cannot achieve the kind of compartmentalization you are making with respect to all the different Robins in your personal history. To me it seems there is a Robin1, a Robin2, a Robin3 and a Robin4 up until 5 maybe, all of them are fairly intact, lets call Robin1 the Robin who as a TB teacher and just newly enlightened, Robin2 the Robin of the seminars at FF and whatever happened there, the Robin3 the one who read Aquinas and became converted to Catholicism, and Robin4 is the post modern, post catholic Robin. There is also Robin0, the one who experimented with LSD (which I never took). Robin4 tells us that the whole TM trip as a deception, and illusion, and side by side in the same post Robin1 tells that the initiation into TM is the most marvelous experience, to which we should always be committed and faithful. Robin4 tells Emily it is better to never start TM, and Robin1 tells Vaj, that he
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: TM, the Dome Badge, and Religious Practices
Share3 who will be going to writing group this afternoon, then Release session with partner in Sydney, then Dome. So not at computer again til this evening. From: Robin Carlsen maskedze...@yahoo.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, July 29, 2012 3:17 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: TM, the Dome Badge, and Religious Practices --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Share Long sharelong60@... wrote: snip Share2: Well it's ok RC but you do seem to contradict yourself in some subtle way. I can't speak to a Unity experience, but I can address the internal logic or absence thereof. You say it was not a personal desire. Then you say you forced Maharishi to commit himself. This sounds personal. Robin3:Personal coercion is just concentrated universal coercion. My dear Share: Pray, tell me what act that you have ever seen performed by a human being was not 'personal'? Tell me one. The sense I had was that the cosmic intelligence that was computing my actions was inexorably driving this show-down with Maharishi, and the personal Robin was just a witness to this drama. The cosmic intelligence in me was forcing the cosmic intelligence in Maharishi to commit himself. This sounds personal. Well *that* certainly--your comment--sounds personal. Because it *is* personal. But you see, Share, the intelligences behind making me enlightened--and, I would contend, making Maharishi enlightened--*these intelligences are very personal*. There is no impersonal intelligence or reality in the universe. *Everything is infinitely personal*--from where I see it. So, in a sense, your intuition was correct; the intelligences behind Maharishis Unity Consciousness were doing one thing, whereas the intelligences behind Robin's Unity Consciousness were doing another thing--*even though these were the same intelligences*! But there is one thing we are leaving out here: The creator of all these intelligences, even the mischievous ones that make persons enlightened--or think they are enlightened. That being too (being very personal) has his reasons—but then, as Paul said: Who has ever known the mind of the Lord that he may instruct him? I only say, Share, that my actions vis-a-vis Maharish--at all times--were subject to and subjugated by my Unity Consciousness--and this was always experienced to be, ultimately at least, under the aegis of cosmic intelligence. I would say things, do things, that I would never dream of doing before I was enlightened--I literally had no control even over my body: if cosmic intelligence wanted me to stand up, I would find myself standing up. If I was supposed to speak, I would speak—and the words that came out of my mouth were not experienced to have been thought out first by myself—and how many times I was shocked by what I said! Share3: Ghazali! Again with contradicting yourself! Either those energies are always personal. Or it is the witness who is personal and what it is witnessing is not! Anyway, if it is personal, even infinitely personal, then can the person really have no control? snip Share2: That part about my ambition to make people act in life supporting ways made me laugh at first. Then I asked if it could be true. Oy! Yes, when I feel vulnerable, as I do right now, I wish I could make or inspire certain people to act in certain ways. Robin3: Nothing to say here to this, Share. I think your statement/confession: Oy! Yes, when I feel vulnerable, as I do right now, I wish I could make or inspire certain people to act in certain ways a perfect testimony to the realness of the truth of how you live out your life. This very desire--to have persons be more loving or generous or positive--that itself is a spontaneous (or I have come to regard it as so) expression of the person that God created to be Share Long. IMO. It just--when I read it on the page (screen)--came out as something intrinsic to being Share Long. So I like it and thank God he made you this way. :-) Share3: My intention was not as lofty as you say but thank you. And am now wondering if you're projecting all of your goodness onto me. Yes, the golden shadow! snip Share2: I'm thinking of taking that high wire in my hands and making my way to the side in hand over hand fashion. And it is not the smash mouth football that will have mainly contributed to my retreat. You've already survived so much. I'm sure you'll do the same re my philosophy, whatever the heck that is (-: Robin3: I like what motivates your philosophy, Share--and you have already survived some heavy sidewinds without toppling over and plunging down into the swirling waters (did you see that guy walk across Niagara Falls?). I don't think you will fall--or if you do, you will be airborne. I don't know how you do it, but I am becoming convinced it is inside your DNA. If you can experience that reality, nature, or even your very biology
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: TM, the Dome Badge, and Religious Practices
Share2 on a rainy Sunday morning almost autumnal in feeling very sweetly mournful this morning From: Robin Carlsen maskedzebra@... To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2012 11:47 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: TM, the Dome Badge, and Religious Practices snip Share1: Could it be that your knowledge is valid within the context of your enlightenment but maybe not useful to Maharishi and his vision? My own experience was that I realized that the emotional healing was not a priority within the TMO. So I went elsewhere for that. Robin2: Not exactly sure what you mean here, Share. No, if you are asking me to speculate on the reasons for why Maharishi, after seven years of never criticizing me—despite the clamour from his governors, finally uttered four sounds which did not indicate he approved of what I was doing there in Fairfield—that is a question that merits a separate post. What you are not taking into consideration is: *This was not a personal desire of Robin's* that Maharishi officially recognize my enlightenment and its immediate and profound application to every TM Governor—and therefore to Maharishi's very Teaching; no, Share, the intelligence which had created my enlightenment and which had control over my actions, that intelligence was pushing me into this confrontation and resolution with Maharishi. I had the sense, throughout those seven years, that Maharishi and I were performing a kind of dance of very subtle mental intelligence; but finally, I forced him to commit himself. And then there was a form of superficial peace—even though the reality remained the same—and my connection with Maharishi was what it had always been. I was not seeking emotional healing—although I admit I don't quite see the connection of this comment to what I said in what I have said to you. Share2: Well it's ok RC but you do seem to contradict yourself in some subtle way. I can't speak to a Unity experience, but I can address the internal logic or absence thereof. You say it was not a personal desire. Then you say you forced Maharishi to commit himself. This sounds personal. Furthermore, if that intelligence was impersonal, then Maharishi, indeed the whole cosmos, would have been subsumed in it including the clamouring governors. In the emotional healing comment I was expressing why my personal agenda was no longer compatible with the movement's. Perhaps you were seeking some other kind of resolution. snip Share1: St. Paul! Tho my birthday falls on his feast day, I sometimes wonder if he wasn't responsible for the early church becoming, well, less about Christ and more about rules and structures. Robin2: Is this a discussion you really want to have, Share? I will just stipulate that Paul baby didn't get Christ wrong—Christ made certain of that by knocking him down and blinding him on the Road to Damascus. Before this he was standing around urging his brethren to make those stones draw blood from Saint Stephen's uncovered head. Admittedly he would be a somewhat strident poster on FFL; but he was brilliant, brave, and true—Good choice by Christ to forcibly recruit him to the good side. Christ destroyed his boundaries and his prejudices in a lightning moment; after that he was aggressive as a missionary, but secretly docile to his Master. I hope we both get to meet him some day, Share—he chose not to reincarnate by the way: He wanted the heaven thing, solidly inside his first-person ontology. Too bad we can't e-mail him right now. :-) But I will grant you that Paul, he was pretty big on them there rules and regulations—but for us fallen souls, they were, until you got to heaven, pretty indispensable. Who have you seen achieve anything without obeying rules and regulations, Share? The only rationale for ignoring rules and regulations is to be beyond those rules and regulations and in direct contact with Natural Law, with the intrinsic laws and regulations of the universe—like physics. Like mathematics. Like astronomy. Like architecture. Like—let me say it—love. Hi, Share: did you see Emily's comment today? I wonder how your philosophy will allow you to both take in the truth of what she has said—unless the person to whom it is directed chooses to address her, which he will not—and at the same time, preserve your ambition, which is to make everyone act in a life-supporting fashion. By the way I never forget Maharishi at Humboldt (I wasn't there by the way; I only listened to the audio tapes—all of them—over and over again while teaching school) talking about never speaking ill of others; how doing so drives that person down—indicating that anything negative thought, let alone spoken about someone, has an injurious effect on that person—while pulling oneself down as well. Fascinating and powerful idea—which I adopted all the way—until I got enlightened. Then I let her rip—or was forced
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: TM, the Dome Badge, and Religious Practices
I agree - so why not just hit the stated mark of 2,000 flyers and move on from there? From: sparaig lengli...@cox.net To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, July 28, 2012 5:58 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: TM, the Dome Badge, and Religious Practices --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Emily Reyn emilymae.reyn@... wrote: If this is such a priority and they really believe what they are saying, why don't they just bring in meditators from other countries to reach the goal? Â Are there not 2000 flyers in the entire world? Â In the name of global peace, I would think that many of the idealistic and altruistic nature would volunteer even to pick up and move. Â Â They have imported about 1,000 Vedic PUndits, and pay Americans $800/month to participate full time (8 hours/day 7 days/week) for at least a month. I'd say they are pretty serious. L
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: TM, the Dome Badge, and Religious Practices
Lawson's not taking advantage of me. I'm just stating the obvious. I am thinking this AM that I do tend to throw the baby out with the bath water when I detect what I deem to be hypocrisy, which works against me *personally* in many regards, as there is always hypocrisy when interpreted through the human experience. We are all hypocritical. Does one discount all the beautiful philosophical treatise in the world because of the who, or what that is stating them? Of course not. One looks that them in the context they were created and judges them based on their value to our personal existence or based on our assessment of their value to mankind. From: turquoiseb no_re...@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, July 28, 2012 6:18 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: TM, the Dome Badge, and Religious Practices --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig LEnglish5@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Emily Reyn emilymae.reyn@ wrote: If this is such a priority and they really believe what they are saying, why don't they just bring in meditators from other countries to reach the goal? Are there not 2000 flyers in the entire world? In the name of global peace, I would think that many of the idealistic and altruistic nature would volunteer even to pick up and move. They have imported about 1,000 Vedic PUndits, and pay Americans $800/month to participate full time (8 hours/day 7 days/week) for at least a month. I'd say they are pretty serious. Just so that Emily is not swayed by this disinformation, what she means by they and what Lawson means by they are completely different. I suspect that by they Emily meant the TM organization per se, the entity that has been estimated by The Illustrated Weekly of India to have a net worth of 3.5 billion dollars. Given that amount of capital, and given the importance the organization *claims* to place on getting large numbers of Yogic Flyers together to do their thang for world peace, her proposal seems very logical -- Put your money where your mouth is. *In constrast*, what Lawson is talking about are two programs paid for entirely by donations begged or demanded from TMers. The program that pays for people to buttbounce full-time for $800 per month was paid for *entirely* by one wealthy TMer. The pundits were similarly funded by donations from well-meaning (and yes, idealistic) TMers. As far as I know, the TM organization itself, sitting on top of all that wealth, *has not spent a penny of its own money* to achieve its own goals. This is a policy that goes back to the very beginnings of the TM movement. Maharishi was almost *never* willing to spend his own money on his own projects. He always found a way to beg the money for them from his followers, or in his worst moments *extort* the money for them. (What else would you call the frantic pleas for money some time before he died in which he declared outright that the world would end if it wasn't raised.) I think Emily has a point. If the TMO 1) actually believed that its programs could bring about world peace, and 2) were sitting on top of sufficient financial assets to put those beliefs to the test, wouldn't their failure to do so paint them as hypocritical at the very least, and downright mercenary at worst? Lawson knows all this. He was taking advantage of Emily *not* knowing it to spin things in such a way as to make it seem as if the TM organization *itself* paid for the efforts he listed. That isn't true, and has never been. The TMO does *NOT* pay for these things; the same well- intentioned suckers who have been paying for Maharishi's dreams since the beginning of the movement paid for them.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: TM, the Dome Badge, and Religious Practices
snip .in his own propensity to do exactly what he complains about. My question is always...Barry, do you see the hypocrisy in your own behavior? Not that you don't have a right to it, ..but are you even aware of your own hypocrisy? :) From: authfriend jst...@panix.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, July 28, 2012 8:45 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: TM, the Dome Badge, and Religious Practices --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb no_reply@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig LEnglish5@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Emily Reyn emilymae.reyn@ wrote: If this is such a priority and they really believe what they are saying, why don't they just bring in meditators from other countries to reach the goal? Are there not 2000 flyers in the entire world? In the name of global peace, I would think that many of the idealistic and altruistic nature would volunteer even to pick up and move. They have imported about 1,000 Vedic PUndits, and pay Americans $800/month to participate full time (8 hours/day 7 days/week) for at least a month. I'd say they are pretty serious. Just so that Emily is not swayed by this disinformation, Of course, it isn't disinformation. It's a perspective that differs from Barry's. (Note that Barry is the one who complains loudly that his perspectives are called lies by those with different perspectives. That's actually a fantasy of his--it doesn't happen--but we can see where it originates: in his own propensity to do exactly what he complains about.) The difference in perspective hinges on the fact that the TMO is very heavily involved both in bringing in the pundits from India and in Howard Settle's subsidy program for full-time dome participants. The funding itself comes from donations, but neither project could be carried out if the TMO weren't quite serious about achieving the purportedly critical dome numbers. Of course, it isn't the least bit unusual for a well- endowed organization with a mission to ask for donations to fund specific projects. Nobody with any sense looks askance at that approach. what she means by they and what Lawson means by they are completely different. I suspect that by they Emily meant the TM organization per se, the entity that has been estimated by The Illustrated Weekly of India to have a net worth of 3.5 billion dollars. Given that amount of capital, and given the importance the organization *claims* to place on getting large numbers of Yogic Flyers together to do their thang for world peace, her proposal seems very logical -- Put your money where your mouth is. *In constrast*, what Lawson is talking about are two programs paid for entirely by donations begged or demanded from TMers. The program that pays for people to buttbounce full-time for $800 per month was paid for *entirely* by one wealthy TMer. The pundits were similarly funded by donations from well-meaning (and yes, idealistic) TMers. As far as I know, the TM organization itself, sitting on top of all that wealth, *has not spent a penny of its own money* to achieve its own goals. This is a policy that goes back to the very beginnings of the TM movement. Maharishi was almost *never* willing to spend his own money on his own projects. He always found a way to beg the money for them from his followers, or in his worst moments *extort* the money for them. (What else would you call the frantic pleas for money some time before he died in which he declared outright that the world would end if it wasn't raised.) I think Emily has a point. If the TMO 1) actually believed that its programs could bring about world peace, and 2) were sitting on top of sufficient financial assets to put those beliefs to the test, wouldn't their failure to do so paint them as hypocritical at the very least, and downright mercenary at worst? Lawson knows all this. He was taking advantage of Emily *not* knowing it to spin things in such a way as to make it seem as if the TM organization *itself* paid for the efforts he listed. That isn't true, and has never been. The TMO does *NOT* pay for these things; the same well- intentioned suckers who have been paying for Maharishi's dreams since the beginning of the movement paid for them.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: TM, the Dome Badge, and Religious Practices
just plain Share: From: Robin Carlsen maskedze...@yahoo.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2012 11:47 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: TM, the Dome Badge, and Religious Practices Dear Share, I think I was unclear in making my intent known to you in writing that second letter to you. I chose to address you, because of the receptivity and positivity that is part of your spiritual approach to persons and reality. But I was simply taking the opportunity—this had nothing to do with you personally—to explain how I felt that my own behaviour (when I came to Fairfield) vis-a-vis Maharishi and MIU was not some attempt to introduce a different teaching or technique, and therefore could not—at least from my own point of view—be used as an example of some form of spirituality other than and in some sense at variance with anything that Maharishi was teaching. Indeed I made it my objective to force Maharishi to commit himself to a judgment of the validity of the knowledge that came out of my enlightenment. Share: Could it be that your knowledge is valid within the context of your enlightenment but maybe not useful to Maharishi and his vision? My own experience was that I realized that the emotional healing was not a priority within the TMO. So I went elsewhere for that. R: I had argued in my previous post (also addressed to you because of your 'charity'—See Saint Paul) on behalf of the enforcers of Dome policies. Now to do this might seem unseemly, given how the officials at MIU reacted to my seminars in Fairfield back in 1982-83. I thought the readers at FFL would possibly make the assumption: Here is this guy defending Bevan and the actions of Dome officials and he himself became a renegade from the purity of the teaching, and tried to set himself up as a Guru against Maharishi. Whereas this was decidedly not my intention or belief, even though this was the deliberate judgment of the authorities at MIU. Share: St. Paul! Tho my birthday falls on his feast day, I sometimes wonder if he wasn't responsible for the early church becoming, well, less about Christ and more about rules and structures. R: There are a lot of things I regret. If a student at MIU felt, in retrospect, they would have rather stayed away from me and completed their education at MIU, that would indeed constitute a source of concern for me. But what was opened up in their experience, and where most of these persons ended up, I doubt anyone who took their chances with me feels on balance they lost rather than gained from the experience. But this is a very complex issue. And I have no hard data to support this conclusion. Share: I'm glad to hear that people gained rather than lost from association with you. So no need to regret then. I believe this is a learning place. We're here to make mistakes. And learn from them. So make amends if possible and live your life as well as possible. That's good enough. Also, even leaders are on a learning curve. Best not to expect perfection from them either. R: Buck was making his case. I weighed in on the side of the authorities. This would seem bizarre given that I was considered at the time to be the heretic par excellence. But I never thought of opposing Maharishi in the least; I was confident I was doing his will, and only yearned to bring about a reconciliation with Bevan and the officials at MIU, something I knew could only happen through the expressed judgment of Maharishi himself. Share: Did you ever read Eric Hofer's True Believer? According to him, the biggest heretics can become the biggest TBs. Oh, how I'd love to see your jyotish chart... Share: As for James Holmes, I'm sure there are souls way more evolved than me who are praying for him, etc. R: Shall I return to our big conversation, Share? You are walking that tightrope across Niagara Falls and it doesn't seem as if you are going to fall—and I see no safety harness. Pretty amazing feat there, Share, baby! Share: Waaa! Baby wearing water wings I hope (-: Then, RC, have your criteria been met for returning to personal love universal love chat? Hmmm... Ok, off to first weight training. Osteo in hips just diagnosed. Must do preventative stuff. Robin --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Share Long sharelong60@... wrote: Dear Robin, Gosh, you don't have to explain yourself at all to me. I believe what you say and I'm content to engage with you as you are now. I wasn't at MIU when you were there. Of course I heard a few stories. And I've read some of the emails here. Also my last X is a Canadian gov. What can I say? Your life has been much more eventful than mine. Even your inner life. I'm sorry if those events, inner and outer, caused you or others unnecessary suffering. I would imagine that as a leader, you would regret causing a student to lose something
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: TM, the Dome Badge, and Religious Practices
If this is such a priority and they really believe what they are saying, why don't they just bring in meditators from other countries to reach the goal? Are there not 2000 flyers in the entire world? In the name of global peace, I would think that many of the idealistic and altruistic nature would volunteer even to pick up and move. From: Buck dhamiltony...@yahoo.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, July 27, 2012 4:31 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: TM, the Dome Badge, and Religious Practices The Dome meditation numbers: http://invincibleamerica.org/tallies/ The immediate urgent priority for national invincibility and world peace is to join the Invincible America Assembly at MUM. Only 2000 Flyers in Fairfield/Maharishi Vedic City will bring security to America and defuse the precarious escalation of conflict in the world. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck wrote: Hopefully guidelines facilitate what you are doing and don't get in the way of what you are doing. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck wrote: Whittling the Dome guidelines Those parts in the Dome admission guideline about pundits, joytish and yagyas really don't need to be there. They don't have much to do with running the meditation programs in the Domes. There evidently is something else going on in those paragraphs. Effectively they are an administrative attempt to control religious practices by using the Dome admission as a punishment towards coercing the use of TM-sanctioned vedic/hindu astrological and religious practices. Part of the policy question becomes: is there not a place in the Domes or the TM movement for just practitioners of meditation and the TM-sidhis without judging and interfering with people's religious practices? What do those paragraphs have to do with running the Dome program? Within TM, it seems we have TM and TM-Sidhi practitioners over here, and then sanctioned TM religious activities over there, like over in Vedic City. Within this it seems the TM-Rajas with this anti-religious activity policy are using in a business plan the Dome admission policy as coercion towards using the TM-sanctioned religious practices more exclusively. It's proly bad enough to be 'anti-saint'. Does the new TM.org really want to be known as 'anti-religious' in business as well? Public grants and funding going to an institution discriminating, based on religious activity? That does not sound good at all. With those anti-religious TM guidelines about access to these other astrological systems or religious people or indeed about hosting them, then one would worry for TM and the Dome meditation. Those paragraphs really don't need to be in the guidelines for running the Domes. They certainly could be changed or deleted. This would help people a lot from having to look over their shoulder if they have a valid Dome badge or would like to apply for one if they are meditators. There are very few TM-virgins anymore and there's a lot of people in the Dome who meditate in a fear for their status for being found out. It's the way it is and it's a communal problem with the Dome meditation. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Emily Reyn emilymae.reyn@ wrote: Buck, do you ever ask yourself why you buck the system?  Bucking? Naw, I'm an Iowan, an old practicing mediator, and a pretty reasonable person. By experience and the science I'd like to see the numbers do well in the Domes. I'm quite hope full and I'd like to see those people facilitate the Dome numbers better. I'm pretty simple. They've got old problems that they've created with the Dome numbers with those guidelines and the meditating community. Raja Hagelin has created a lot of process inside to help run things since Maharishi's death. Things could change. I got time. -Buck From: Buck To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2012 6:19 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] TM, the Dome Badge, and Religious Practices  Om, waht oh. I may lose my Dome badge, again. I got called in by the chief inspector the other day over my religious activities with non-TM pundits. If it goes badly they'll take my Dome badge away, again. It is still in the balance but it is an interesting thing; they have these anti-religious practices paragraphs in the Dome meditation admission guidelines that are a snare. The paragraphs are part of a business plan to coerce people to use TM movement joytish astrology and yagya services more exclusively by using the dome admission as a punishment. I had an hour long interview
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: TM, the Dome Badge, and Religious Practices
Hi Ann and Buck, I'm baffled by all this. I was totally out of the Dome for 7 years, 2003 to 2010. During that time I openly participated in lots of stuff in FF, including Waking Down in Mutuality for about 3 years. But I had no trouble getting back into the Dome. No interrogation room, etc. Also through Amma's org, I've been having planetary pujas done for a while now plus use her jyotishis. Movement got too expensive and wanted a person to supply family info also. Too much of a hassle. And even when I was a grad student on campus, I was open about participating in David Deida tantric workshops. Again no interrogation room, no subtle threats, etc. All I can figure is that they let me alone because I'm just a sidha, not a gov. But I don't know for sure. Now that I'm back in the Dome, sometimes friends on campus aren't as friendly as they were. Sometimes that hurts. But I sort of understand. And I have friends in town. TSR dontcha know. Town Super Radiance. And jokingly means taking seminars regularly. OTOH, truth in jest, etc. Share in town and in Dome... From: awoelflebater no_re...@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2012 11:02 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: TM, the Dome Badge, and Religious Practices --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck dhamiltony2k5@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, salyavin808 fintlewoodlewix@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck wrote: Om, waht oh. I may lose my Dome badge, again. I got called in by the chief inspector the other day over my religious activities with non-TM pundits. If it goes badly they'll take my Dome badge away, again. It is still in the balance but it is an interesting thing; they have these anti-religious practices paragraphs in the Dome meditation admission guidelines that are a snare. The paragraphs are part of a business plan to coerce people to use TM movement joytish astrology and yagya services more exclusively by using the dome admission as a punishment. I had an hour long interview in the Peace Palace the other day. Some committee that I'll not see will adjudicate my case. We have something in our files, tell us about it. How do the TM inspectors [had a good laugh typing that] find out you are using non-approved services? Is there a supergrass in FF? And what the hell business do you think it is of theirs? Hope you tell them to stuff their stupid dome badge. Really, what is the point of all this if this is the sort of positivity that TM creates? Sal, how? The 'course office' works it like East German Secret Police Stasi doing case work. They work it all the time. Search local papers for leads, the internet, make interviews, hear conversations in the Domes or meal hall on campus or around, some people also feel it their duty to tell them things, and then they squeeze people. They make files and network the files. These are TM career people who are very good at what they do. These are apparatchiks who are unquestioningly loyal subordinates. For them it is about enforcing the guidelines. If they had better guidelines they would enforce them too. It is a lot like being confronted with that German officer investigator actor in Inglorious Bastards. http://voices.yahoo.com/inglorious-bastards-using-tarantinos-movie-teaching-5616344.html That's the course office and the system that set it up. Evidently it is the best we have to work with. Wow Buck, you put up with a lot in order to be able to meditate in the Dome and operate within the confines of the TM secret police. I had no idea. If any of this had been going on back in 1976-1980 I would have been out of there, real fast. I guess what you gain is worth this kind of terrible, freedom-squelching monitoring? Is this for real? I haven't been paying attention or following any of this at FFL so I am a bit shocked now that I actually read one of these posts. I guess you need the collective group energy that the dome provides when you do your siddhis? You couldn't just sort of hop around in your own home and essentially be flipping these Nazi's a bird at the same time as you burn your dome badge? Jeezuz, I would love to be in Fairfield just to give these assholes a run for their money. I could think of all sorts of fun scenarios because, frankly, I wouldn't give a damn and just the opportunity to raise a couple of hackles on these guy's backs would be worth the price of admission. Good luck with that. But remember, certain things are only worth so much boot licking.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: TM, the Dome Badge, and Religious Practices
OMG! You sound Libertarian! From: feste37 fest...@yahoo.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2012 11:27 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: TM, the Dome Badge, and Religious Practices Actually, I live within my own rules, which are not those of the TM movement. I do not go to the dome and do not have a valid badge, although I have no reason to believe I would be denied one, should I decide to apply. I just happen to think that the movement is entitled to set its own policies for dome attendance, and if some people find them unreasonable they can choose to stay away. If some people think the TM movement is illegally excluding certain people, then it is up to them to make a legal challenge. If such a challenge were to be upheld, then obviously the movement would have to reexamine its policies, but I doubt whether it would be. --- In mailto:FairfieldLife%40yahoogroups.com, awoelflebater no_reply@... wrote: --- In mailto:FairfieldLife%40yahoogroups.com, feste37 feste37@ wrote: I have no intention of debating you further on this. What I like in your post is the sentence I will admit I know very little of all of this. Exactly. I couldn't have put it better myself. No debates, you obviously love it there and are very content to live within the rules. I think I'll stay in British Columbia. I'm not sure Fairfield would know what to do with me anyway. I've already been kicked off that campus more than once and banned permanently but it might be interesting to see what they could come up with in 2012. Hmmm... --- In mailto:FairfieldLife%40yahoogroups.com, awoelflebater no_reply@ wrote: --- In mailto:FairfieldLife%40yahoogroups.com, feste37 feste37@ wrote: --- In mailto:FairfieldLife%40yahoogroups.com, awoelflebater no_reply@ wrote: --- In mailto:FairfieldLife%40yahoogroups.com, feste37 feste37@ wrote: I wondered how long it would be before the Nazis got dragged into it. Just one stop after the Stasi, it seems. I'm not sure about the Nazis getting dragged into it. Seems more like the dome police are emulating all sorts of tyrants through the ages and the comparison is a natural one. What other tyrants did you have in mind? The comparison is not a natural one at all, but a very silly one. I will define tyrants, in this case, as those who are in a position of power and who choose to exercise that power by attempting to control not only someone's movements but their choice of who to read, listen to or see that are spiritually different or at odds with what and who these tyrants believe someone should adhere to exclusively (TM). I believe it is tyrannical because they are determining in a simplistic and fundamentalist way, without understanding any of the complexity of what should go into determining a stance that they embrace, what others should do in their lives. I don't care if they think they are following MMY's, their Master's, desire that the TM teachings remain pure. It has nothing to do with keeping these teachings pure; just because someone doesn't expose themselves to other spiritual paths does not necessarily mean that they will be pure or unadulterated in their practices with regard to TM and the Siddhis. But, I am only going by Buck's description here of what seems to be a very unhealthy situation in good old Fairfield I-O-I-AY. I saw a bit of this when I was involved with Robin, the kind of knee-jerk TM reaction to anyone showing the gumption and (sometimes crazy) things we got up to that went against the movement norm. The TM movement owns the domes and pays for them. The dome badge is free. No, it is not free. People obviously give up a lot of things to be able to have one. I'm afraid you are incorrect. As I said, the dome badge is free. And I reiterate that nothing is free, least of all this dome badge. As you are well aware, I am not talking about money here. And the movement pays for the upkeep of the dome, including the nice air conditioning that people enjoy. The movement is like the government. They survive thanks to the monies generated by selling other services or charging for things which the people have paid for (in the government's case by implementing taxes). This is not some benevolent entity who has just chosen to shower freebies on all those willing to give up other personal rights. But that is not my argument. There is nothing wrong with charging, somewhere along the line, for what ultimately provides a service to many (air conditioned domes). No one is asked for any money. If you were to live here and ask people
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: TM, the Dome Badge, and Religious Practices
Though it seems so, I'm not sure it's as simple as all that. Yes, of course the movement can make rules in any way it wants. But perhaps when an organization is teaching a technique for becoming fully developed, one expects a lot of that organization. Such as to be well, at least more developed than average. From what others report, the movement is not always like this. Why? Because it's made up of flawed humans! Not only that, but flawed humans who are quite invested in being perfect or ideal. That mix can lead to a lot of problems. Being aware of it, being more comfortable with my own flaws, makes it a little easier to navigate. FWIW (-: From: nablusoss1008 no_re...@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2012 11:02 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: TM, the Dome Badge, and Religious Practices --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, feste37 feste37@... wrote: The TM movement owns the domes and pays for them. The dome badge is free. The movement therefore makes the rules, and it can make them any way it chooses. Those who don't like it don't have to go. It's really very simple. Bingo !
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: TM, the Dome Badge, and Religious Practices
Dear Robin, Gosh, you don't have to explain yourself at all to me. I believe what you say and I'm content to engage with you as you are now. I wasn't at MIU when you were there. Of course I heard a few stories. And I've read some of the emails here. Also my last X is a Canadian gov. What can I say? Your life has been much more eventful than mine. Even your inner life. I'm sorry if those events, inner and outer, caused you or others unnecessary suffering. I would imagine that as a leader, you would regret causing a student to lose something important to them. But it's all water under the bridge now. You sound somewhat at peace with it all and I'm happy for you about that. I'm sure the world has need of your gifts. It's never too late to redeem anything and or make amends for any hurt. Or so I believe. But maybe I'm simply having an imperfect hallucination (-: Share From: Robin Carlsen maskedze...@yahoo.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2012 10:37 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: TM, the Dome Badge, and Religious Practices Dear Share, I should just say that in the case of myself I thought I was *completing Maharishi's Teaching*, that my enlightenment produced a context for individual metaphysical drama which had not been anticipated before I went up on that mountain in September 1976—But for all that, *was an innocent as TM*. Indeed, I felt that the form my enlightenment took—in terms of this theatre of individuation of the soul—was the fulfillment of the TM experience—the original one. Certainly when I began to act as a person in Unity, my experience was that the whole universe was getting behind my enlightenment project And I was very anxious, therefore, that Maharishi would eventually endorse what I was doing—explicitly, formally. I never thought of myself as deviating from the purity of the teaching. I thought I was taking the next evolutionary step within the context of TM and Maharishi. It didn't quite work out that way; but when persons were punished—expelled from MIU—for attending my seminars, I thought this was just the drama which would precede the eventual joyful consummation. I was wrong in every sense, of course. But I thought I should mention how I exempt myself from having been any kind of interloper or foreign influence within the TM Movement. I remained utterly devoted to Maharishi right up until I determined that my enlightenment was a form of profound mystical deceitfulness, a perfect hallucination. Robin --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Share Long sharelong60@ wrote: Hi Ann and Buck, I'm baffled by all this. I was totally out of the Dome for 7 years, 2003 to 2010. During that time I openly participated in lots of stuff in FF, including Waking Down in Mutuality for about 3 years. But I had no trouble getting back into the Dome. No interrogation room, etc. Also through Amma's org, I've been having planetary pujas done for a while now plus use her jyotishis. Movement got too expensive and wanted a person to supply family info also. Too much of a hassle. And even when I was a grad student on campus, I was open about participating in David Deida tantric workshops. Again no interrogation room, no subtle threats, etc. All I can figure is that they let me alone because I'm just a sidha, not a gov. But I don't know for sure. Now that I'm back in the Dome, sometimes friends on campus aren't as friendly as they were. Sometimes that hurts. But I sort of understand. And I have friends in town. TSR dontcha know. Town Super Radiance. And jokingly means taking seminars regularly. OTOH, truth in jest, etc.  Share in town and in Dome... Dear Share, My take on all this policing of persons who go outside of the spiritual resources sanctioned by the TM Movement is pretty simple. Those who devise and enforce these rules (which originated in Maharishi himself) are going by their first experience of what TM and Maharishi represented: This is The Way; there is no other way that compares to the TM-Maharishi way. TM is defined as the simplest and most natural technique to take one to the deepest level of one's very being—there is no other practice which is defined mechanically and objectively such as to afford the most efficient way of transcending—there are no competitors here. The most profound realization one has when one is made a teacher of TM by Maharishi, is: this is It. There isn't anything else. And if TM cannot do what it says it does—take one to the level of pure consciousness—then we are selling a product which does not do what we say it does. Any compromise on this policy of guarding the purity of the teaching will mean the gradual corruption of TM and the dilution of Maharishi's Teaching, That is one thing that Maharishi was able to do
