F8 artwork
Some unsorted thoughts to start a discussion about artwork for F8: - As most people will probably have noticed by now, Diana is longer with Red Hat, and it looks unlikely that we will have a full-time artist that can help with the artwork in time for F8. - Personally, I'd like to explore a somewhat different style of artwork for F8; something much less branded and image-based (maybe stripes :-) -- if only because the F7 artwork is pretty much at the top of the quality scale for this kind of heavily image-based, branded artwork (as the initial F7 reviews show), and will be hard to top... - The desktop team has started to work on improving the graphical boot (see http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/FeatureBetterStartup ). If we can land this for F8, it will will mean quite a few changes to what artwork is required for branding the boot (all for the better, less images and less awkward restrictions on image formats). It is however, blocking on kernel feature that we are currently not very confident to have in the F8 timeframe. - I haven't heard much about the status of the Echo icon theme lately; are you hoping to have this in good enough shape to become the default in F8 ? We also need to redo the experiment to include svns. Matthias ___ Fedora-art-list mailing list Fedora-art-list@redhat.com http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-art-list
Re: F8 artwork
Matthias Clasen wrote: Some unsorted thoughts to start a discussion about artwork for F8: - As most people will probably have noticed by now, Diana is longer with Red Hat, and it looks unlikely that we will have a full-time artist that can help with the artwork in time for F8. Do you think is the case for us to start a 3 round process similar with the one proposed for F7? - http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Artwork/FC7Themes We can easily adapt it with dates following the F8 schedule. - Personally, I'd like to explore a somewhat different style of artwork for F8; something much less branded and image-based (maybe stripes :-) -- if only because the F7 artwork is pretty much at the top of the quality scale for this kind of heavily image-based, branded artwork (as the initial F7 reviews show), and will be hard to top... I agree about exploring a new style because I think we should bring something fresh in each release and because is fun to explore different styles. - The desktop team has started to work on improving the graphical boot (see http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/FeatureBetterStartup ). If we can land this for F8, it will will mean quite a few changes to what artwork is required for branding the boot (all for the better, less images and less awkward restrictions on image formats). It is however, blocking on kernel feature that we are currently not very confident to have in the F8 timeframe. We can focus on the overall style in the beginning and when the time comes to create the individual images (probably around F8T2 or even a little later) probably you will have a better idea about this blocker. -- nicu :: http://nicubunu.ro :: http://nicubunu.blogspot.com Cool Fedora wallpapers: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro/wallpapers/ Open Clip Art Library: http://www.openclipart.org my Fedora stuff: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro ___ Fedora-art-list mailing list Fedora-art-list@redhat.com http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-art-list
Re: F8 artwork
Nicu Buculei wrote: Do you think is the case for us to start a 3 round process similar with the one proposed for F7? - http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Artwork/FC7Themes We can easily adapt it with dates following the F8 schedule. +1 I think this is a good idea. I agree with Matthias though and I think we should try to tone the style down a bit. We can come up with a theme concept collaboratively but I think when we actually create it, we should try to not be quite so literal with the artwork, and instead try for a bit more abstract and clean look for most of the theme. I do not think that it's a matter of being 'hard to top', though. I think especially for the artwork that is not easily changed by end users (wallpaper and GDM theme are easiest to swap out), we have to think about the artwork forcing a particular theme down user's throats when their tastes are quite different. E.g., there's balloons in grub, if I like a dark techno/shiny look for my system - well that's not going to really jive with the fun happy balloons I will have to see up until login ;-). It's not easy to switch those out. (I've seen quite a few complaints to this end on fedoraforum and on IRC.) We also want to make it easier for folks to remix and customize Fedora for redistribution. We will make this much more difficult for these folks if every nook and cranny of the OS has overly thematic artwork. Fedora is even more of an 'upstream' now. With those things in mind, a good approach I think could be to focus on the wallpaper and GDM and tone down the rest. We can still make a big impression and 'keep up the tradition' or whatever, and use the wallpaper and gdm theme to showcase what FOSS graphics tools can do, but still keep happy those folks who like personalizing their desktop and don't agree with our style by leaving the rest plainer in comparison. Another random idea - as each of us go through the process of actually implementing the artwork, if we took good notes we could write up a series of how-tos that would help folks who want to spin their own Fedora distros figure out how to customize the theme of their spin. We could even publish these in Red Hat Magazine under the Open Palette column that Nicu and I started. - Personally, I'd like to explore a somewhat different style of artwork for F8; something much less branded and image-based (maybe stripes :-) Heh ;) -- if only because the F7 artwork is pretty much at the top of the quality scale for this kind of heavily image-based, branded artwork (as the initial F7 reviews show), and will be hard to top... I agree about exploring a new style because I think we should bring something fresh in each release and because is fun to explore different styles. +1 I can think of two potential next steps - 1) Let's start the theme concept 3-round process again. Let's nail down all the details right here ASAP so we can write up the announcement - what parts of the theme will be 'thematic' vs which will be toned down, and a schedule of how the round process will go. I propose that we basically announce that this go-round we are focusing mainly on the wallpaper and login designs to serve as the 'showcase' for the release's artwork, and the rest of the artwork (whatever the bootup process will entail, whether it be something new or grub/rhgb, and the installer/firstboot artwork) will be toned-down and less thematic. 2) We should have a general discussion here on list to get our thoughts out on where F8's artwork could go. What desktop wallpaper are you using these days? Have you seen any cool ones lately? Seen any cool current graphic design in general lately? Have an idea for a nice style we could use? Send it to the list and we can discuss and try to come up with a general style to push for. :) What kinds of feedback have you heard on the Fedora 7 theme? What have you heard about other distro's themes? Do we want to get into photomanip, 3d rendering, vector-based, or some combo of the three? Does this sound reasonable? ~m ___ Fedora-art-list mailing list Fedora-art-list@redhat.com http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-art-list
Re: F8 artwork
Le Mer 6 juin 2007 17:20, Máirín Duffy a écrit : 2) We should have a general discussion here on list to get our thoughts out on where F8's artwork could go. Daring thought : have a non-blue wallpaper (blue is great but there are other colors too. Fedora theming have bordered on the monochrome those past releases) -- Nicolas Mailhot ___ Fedora-art-list mailing list Fedora-art-list@redhat.com http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-art-list
Re: Fedora-art-list Digest, Vol 15, Issue 3
- I haven't heard much about the status of the Echo icon theme lately; are you hoping to have this in good enough shape to become the default in F8 ? We also need to redo the experiment to include svns. After looking at the Echo icons again, they look about 3/4 of the way done, and since it's summer, some of the vacationers might get cracking on that, I think. I know I am. :) - Personally, I'd like to explore a somewhat different style of artwork for F8; something much less branded and image-based (maybe stripes :-) -- if only because the F7 artwork is pretty much at the top of the quality scale for this kind of heavily image-based, branded artwork (as the initial F7 reviews show), and will be hard to top... I... somewhat agree. I know I personally always go in and change the theme of the whole system when I install Fedora :P But stripes doesn't really sound like the way to go for me. I, for one, like the eyecandy type of themes, like gel, and I've already seen it in the Echo icon theme. (Maybe we could develop a similar window theme???) Daring thought : have a non-blue wallpaper (blue is great but there are other colors too. Fedora theming have bordered on the monochrome those past releases) I agree, but I think most people are used to blue-ish, but maybe adding a contrasting color, like orange, to it might brighten it up some. They look pretty good, in my opinion (I'd know, because those are the two colors I use all the time). ___ Fedora-art-list mailing list Fedora-art-list@redhat.com http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-art-list
Re: F8 artwork
Hey all, Nicu Buculei wrote: Matthias Clasen wrote: Some unsorted thoughts to start a discussion about artwork for F8: - As most people will probably have noticed by now, Diana is longer with Red Hat, and it looks unlikely that we will have a full-time artist that can help with the artwork in time for F8. Do you think is the case for us to start a 3 round process similar with the one proposed for F7? - http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Artwork/FC7Themes We can easily adapt it with dates following the F8 schedule. I think it's a good idea. Why not involve schools for example? I know a very nice info-graphic school in Brussels, I'll drop them a mail, maybe they are interested to help. - Personally, I'd like to explore a somewhat different style of artwork for F8; something much less branded and image-based (maybe stripes :-) -- if only because the F7 artwork is pretty much at the top of the quality scale for this kind of heavily image-based, branded artwork (as the initial F7 reviews show), and will be hard to top... I agree about exploring a new style because I think we should bring something fresh in each release and because is fun to explore different styles. - The desktop team has started to work on improving the graphical boot (see http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/FeatureBetterStartup ). If we can land this for F8, it will will mean quite a few changes to what artwork is required for branding the boot (all for the better, less images and less awkward restrictions on image formats). It is however, blocking on kernel feature that we are currently not very confident to have in the F8 timeframe. We can focus on the overall style in the beginning and when the time comes to create the individual images (probably around F8T2 or even a little later) probably you will have a better idea about this blocker. -- Marek MahutTel.: +420-532-294-111 (ex. 826-2046) Fedora Ambassador GSM: +420-731-076-674 http://www.fedoraproject.org http://www.jamendo.com ___ Fedora-art-list mailing list Fedora-art-list@redhat.com http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-art-list
Re: F8 artwork
Hi Marek! Marek Mahut wrote: I think it's a good idea. Why not involve schools for example? I know a very nice info-graphic school in Brussels, I'll drop them a mail, maybe they are interested to help. This is a good idea; the one thing I am concerned about is that the artwork is produced using FOSS tools like Inkscape, Gimp, and Blender. When promoting the theme development process to groups outside of Fedora as a way to get them involved in Fedora, I suggest that you emphasize the use of FOSS tools. Maybe this is far-fetched but I believe the artwork for Fedora should be used as a showcase to demonstrate what can be done with the tools available and shipped with Fedora. ~m ___ Fedora-art-list mailing list Fedora-art-list@redhat.com http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-art-list
Re: Fedora-art-list Digest, Vol 15, Issue 3
Caleb Wellauer wrote: I... somewhat agree. I know I personally always go in and change the theme of the whole system when I install Fedora :P But stripes doesn't really sound like the way to go for me. I think Matthias was more referring to a meme folks on Planet GNOME have been following lately with stripes :) Eg from Bastien's blog: http://hadessuk.blogspot.com/search/label/stripes ~m ___ Fedora-art-list mailing list Fedora-art-list@redhat.com http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-art-list
Re: F8 artwork
@ the school idea. i like that alot! @ a possible new theme for F8 first i would like to say that a 3 round theme battle like with F7 would be nice About the new theme itself.. i think fedora should drop the default gnome look and create a real theme... not that the current default themes (gnome/kde) are bad.. just that a completely different theme could be good for fedora. i personally would go for a soft and smooth theme. - The desktop team has started to work on improving the graphical boot (see http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/FeatureBetterStartup ). If we can land this for F8, it will will mean quite a few changes to what artwork is required for branding the boot (all for the better, less images and less awkward restrictions on image formats). It is however, blocking on kernel feature that we are currently not very confident to have in the F8 timeframe. Did you ever tried PCLinuxOS? it`s a good looking operating system which is/was mandriva based. that os doesn`t have one single kernel (debug) message at boot and starts graphical. i think that`s something that fedora _needs_ and a faster (or smarter) init system. 2007/6/6, Máirín Duffy [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Hi Marek! Marek Mahut wrote: I think it's a good idea. Why not involve schools for example? I know a very nice info-graphic school in Brussels, I'll drop them a mail, maybe they are interested to help. This is a good idea; the one thing I am concerned about is that the artwork is produced using FOSS tools like Inkscape, Gimp, and Blender. When promoting the theme development process to groups outside of Fedora as a way to get them involved in Fedora, I suggest that you emphasize the use of FOSS tools. Maybe this is far-fetched but I believe the artwork for Fedora should be used as a showcase to demonstrate what can be done with the tools available and shipped with Fedora. ~m ___ Fedora-art-list mailing list Fedora-art-list@redhat.com http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-art-list ___ Fedora-art-list mailing list Fedora-art-list@redhat.com http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-art-list
Re: F8 artwork
Matthias Clasen a écrit : - I haven't heard much about the status of the Echo icon theme lately; are you hoping to have this in good enough shape to become the default in F8 ? We also need to redo the experiment to include svns Few notes - SVG issues are fixed although some icons need rework i.e fast forward. - echo-pull script is broken when running on x86-64 system. ./echo_pull.py Traceback (most recent call last): File ./echo_pull.py, line 367, in module main() File ./echo_pull.py, line 335, in main parser.parse(icon_mapping_xml) File /usr/lib64/python2.5/site-packages/_xmlplus/sax/expatreader.py, line 103, in parse source = saxutils.prepare_input_source(source) File /usr/lib64/python2.5/site-packages/_xmlplus/sax/saxutils.py, line 524, in prepare_input_source f = urllib2.urlopen(source.getSystemId()) File /usr/lib64/python2.5/urllib2.py, line 121, in urlopen return _opener.open(url, data) File /usr/lib64/python2.5/urllib2.py, line 366, in open protocol = req.get_type() File /usr/lib64/python2.5/urllib2.py, line 241, in get_type raise ValueError, unknown url type: %s % self.__original ValueError: unknown url type: /usr/share/icon-naming-utils/legacy-icon-mapping.xml - Considering finding a better host for icons or improving the upload method for the wiki. - Work on echo icons is resuming now =) Luya ___ Fedora-art-list mailing list Fedora-art-list@redhat.com http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-art-list
Re: F8 artwork
Hi folks, I am at the beginning of the exams, so I have not much time left now for Fedora, yet I'll start working on Echo again in after I am done with the exams (hopefully)... I also have some comments and suggestions that fits into this thread. On Wed, 2007-06-06 at 20:03 +0200, Mark wrote: @ the school idea. i like that alot! +1 @ a possible new theme for F8 first i would like to say that a 3 round theme battle like with F7 would be nice +1 About the new theme itself.. i think fedora should drop the default gnome look and create a real theme... not that the current default themes (gnome/kde) are bad.. just that a completely different theme could be good for fedora. i personally would go for a soft and smooth theme. strip Yep, I though about it. I like clearlooks, and I like it very much, but there is nothing of Fedora about it, and the default metacity theme is not that good. I think that we, the artwork group, should define the fedora look and feel completely. We should not restrict ourselves to Echo icons and cursors and wallpaper related artwork. I heard comments that Fedora 7 look is not bad, but its somehow incomplete, not unified. We need to improve that. Firstly, we need to improve the coverage of the Echo theme. The icons that are on the eyes of most of fedora users should be high priority. We should cover the icons used by the basic applications used in Fedora. Secondly, we need new wallpaper related artwork. I am for the three-round competition and smooth boot process with as little changing-of-screen's as possible. Next, our goal should be defining Fedora widget style and window manager style. We need to show users that we are Fedora, not just GNOME or KDE. That means, that we need to create new gtk/qt theme, possibly we could start with clearlooks, its really nice, and that we need metacity/kwm theme as well. And they should fit nice together, IMO the should not be too shiny or eye-candy, they should be decent and nice -- so that you will not get bored after using them for a few years ;-) Also, I was said, that the notification message window that is used e.g. for notifying user about available updates is horrible. So we should check, how much themable it is and prepare a theme for it, again that fits well to the rest of the desktop. I will repeat the main idea again: we need UNIFIED look in the default fedora artwork. That's what the users see in reviews and what they see after they install fedora, and what they see in Live CDs. We must focus on the unity a completeness. We must define the Fedora Artwork. When user see a screenshot with default artwork selected, he must know that it's Fedora. And to propose some less needed yet quite interesting and valuable projects, I would also suggest to to make Echo theme for themable apps used in Fedora, e.g. firefox or thunderbird (especially the latter´s Vista look fits really horrible to the rest of the Fedora desktop). And just my opinion about colours... well.. I really like Fedora blue and would stick to it. People have blue already connected with Fedora. And I think blue is the very colour that fits Fedora better. But, as was mentioned earlier by someone else, we should not overblueize it... :D Thanks, Martin signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part ___ Fedora-art-list mailing list Fedora-art-list@redhat.com http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-art-list
Re: F8 artwork
Matthias Clasen a écrit : - I haven't heard much about the status of the Echo icon theme lately; are you hoping to have this in good enough shape to become the default in F8 ? We also need to redo the experiment to include svns. Few notes - SVG issues are fixed although some icons need rework i.e fast forward. - echo-pull script is broken when running on x86-64 system. ./echo_pull.py Traceback (most recent call last): File ./echo_pull.py, line 367, in module main() File ./echo_pull.py, line 335, in main parser.parse(icon_mapping_xml) File /usr/lib64/python2.5/site-packages/_xmlplus/sax/expatreader.py, line 103, in parse source = saxutils.prepare_input_source(source) File /usr/lib64/python2.5/site-packages/_xmlplus/sax/saxutils.py, line 524, in prepare_input_source f = urllib2.urlopen(source.getSystemId()) File /usr/lib64/python2.5/urllib2.py, line 121, in urlopen return _opener.open(url, data) File /usr/lib64/python2.5/urllib2.py, line 366, in open protocol = req.get_type() File /usr/lib64/python2.5/urllib2.py, line 241, in get_type raise ValueError, unknown url type: %s % self.__original ValueError: unknown url type: /usr/share/icon-naming-utils/legacy-icon-mapping.xml - Considering finding a better host for icons or improving the upload method for the wiki. - Work on echo icons is resuming now =) Luya ___ Fedora-art-list mailing list Fedora-art-list@redhat.com http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-art-list
Re: test
On Wed, 2007-06-06 at 20:45 +0200, Luya Tshimbalanga wrote: just testing. It appears the mail list has issues because my replies are not displayed. I see three messages from you coming today. This one [1] and two identical Re: F8 artwork [2][3]. Maybe the problem is somewhere else? [1] https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-art-list/2007-June/msg00015.html [2] https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-art-list/2007-June/msg00011.html [3] https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-art-list/2007-June/msg00014.html signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part ___ Fedora-art-list mailing list Fedora-art-list@redhat.com http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-art-list
Re: F8 artwork
John Baer wrote: All, +1 to all of the comments on this thread. But we need to get some direction from Red Hat as it's my understanding Red Hat is the owner of the desktop artwork. I'm really pleased on how things are coming around as I see the preliminary F8 release schedule is already out! Mo, can you make an inquiry to the Red Hat desktop team as to what their desire is? Mathias Clasen who started this thread is part of the Red Hat Desktop team and has clearly outlined what the desire is. Did you miss that? Rahul ___ Fedora-art-list mailing list Fedora-art-list@redhat.com http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-art-list
Re: F8 artwork
Máirín Duffy wrote: Hi Marek! Hey Mo, Marek Mahut wrote: I think it's a good idea. Why not involve schools for example? I know a very nice info-graphic school in Brussels, I'll drop them a mail, maybe they are interested to help. This is a good idea; the one thing I am concerned about is that the artwork is produced using FOSS tools like Inkscape, Gimp, and Blender. When promoting the theme development process to groups outside of Fedora as a way to get them involved in Fedora, I suggest that you emphasize the use of FOSS tools. I'm afraid that this is the biggest problem. Many school are using windowz or macosx with photoshop. Maybe not because it's better, but because the school has a partnership with that big software vendor. I'm pretty sure that children are using pirated versions of those softwares at home :( Maybe this is far-fetched but I believe the artwork for Fedora should be used as a showcase to demonstrate what can be done with the tools available and shipped with Fedora. Maybe some virtual workshop? With demos? ~m -- Marek MahutTel.: +420-532-294-111 (ex. 826-2046) Fedora Ambassador GSM: +420-731-076-674 http://www.fedoraproject.org http://www.jamendo.com ___ Fedora-art-list mailing list Fedora-art-list@redhat.com http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-art-list
Re: F8 artwork
Mark wrote: [...] @ a possible new theme for F8 first i would like to say that a 3 round theme battle like with F7 would be nice [...] We should not forget about prices for winner(s). Fedora caps, tshirts, gadgets or maybe even a free sits in GLS classes. -- Marek MahutTel.: +420-532-294-111 (ex. 826-2046) Fedora Ambassador GSM: +420-731-076-674 http://www.fedoraproject.org http://www.jamendo.com ___ Fedora-art-list mailing list Fedora-art-list@redhat.com http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-art-list
Re: F8 artwork
Matthias Clasen wrote: On Wed, 2007-06-06 at 23:45 -0400, Máirín Duffy wrote: Matthias Clasen wrote: On the topic of the login screen, I forgot to mention that we are also considering switching to the plain greeter to improve the accessibility situation on the login screen. If we go forward with this idea, it would imply some changes to the themeability of the login screen. I talked to Brian Cameron a bit about GDM theme accessibility at the last Boston GNOME Summit, and from him I understood that only the positions of some of the buttons would have to be changed around and some buttons that are not currently displayed would have to be. But beyond that I don't see how making the GDM theme more accessible would necessarily change the themeability of the login screen? Changing to the plain greeter (you can try it out in gdmsetup) would mean theming by background image + whatever length we want to go to theme a regular gtk+ application, as opposed to the somewhat obscure and uncooperative canvas format of the themed greeter. The themed lock dialog and the F7 incarnation of rhgb are proof that this does not really restrict the extent to which the screen can be themed. Oh okay. Would it not be acceptable if a nice GDM theme was proposed that didn't use the plain greeter yet had all the necessary buttons and menu items to make it accessible? ~m ___ Fedora-art-list mailing list Fedora-art-list@redhat.com http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-art-list
Re: F8 artwork
Matthias Clasen wrote: On Wed, 2007-06-06 at 23:55 -0400, Máirín Duffy wrote: Oh okay. Would it not be acceptable if a nice GDM theme was proposed that didn't use the plain greeter yet had all the necessary buttons and menu items to make it accessible? I don't necessarily agree with Brian's assessment that all thats needed for an accessible greeter is enough buttons and menu items. DavidZ can provide much more detail about the disadvantages of the themed greeter from an a11y perspective. Okay. I hope I'm not misrepresenting what he said, but it really didn't seem like it would be a problem accessibility-wise to use a themed greeter at the time is all. ~m ___ Fedora-art-list mailing list Fedora-art-list@redhat.com http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-art-list
