Re: Fedora 10's official Default theme
Hi, On Tue, Sep 23, 2008 at 11:16 PM, Michael Beckwith [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On an operating system, far far away,, we were deep. We were busy slaving away in front of our lovely Fedora 9-run computer, hacking away at graphics for our theme proposals. Three rounds in, and we were down to four options. When it came down to it, we decided that we were no longer content with staying on this planet. The voices in our heads had spoken, and we decided to blast off into space and go Solar. We weren't feeling completely InvinXble. However, being the FOSS advocates we are, and with our support of Fedora, we were not afraid of of the unknown frontier. The Gears of time shown bright with a healthy Neon glow, but neither of these had very much effect on the course of destiny. Come join us as we sail into the Solar future for Fedora 10 later this year. Official winning order: Solar InvinXble Gears Neon My favorite is Solar theme. Best regards, -- Ricardo Ichizo ___ Fedora-art-list mailing list Fedora-art-list@redhat.com http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-art-list
Re: Echo vs the destkop
Luya Tshimbalanga wrote: William Jon McCann a écrit : Hi Bill, On Tue, Sep 23, 2008 at 5:53 PM, Bill Nottingham [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: When we approved Echo as the default icon theme for F10, I was under the assumption that this was already more or less known as a feature to the Desktop group, and they were OK with the coverage provided and the experience given. Is that the case? No. I strongly disagree with the decision to use the Echo icon theme. For one, there is simply not enough time before Fedora 10 to fix the problems that you point out. There is also the fact that the quality of the artwork is noticeably lower than the upstream GNOME and Tango icon themes. See the baseset[1]. Also there are issue on system-Administration that neither gnome nor tango addressed that were done on Echo theme. If the system - Administration looks out of place with the rest of the system, does it help to introduce another icon style so the rest of the system looks out of place instead? A icon set is a mighty beast, bigger than it might appear at first. It have taken about 3 years for the 6-7 core icon developers upstream (with several others occasionally helping out) to where it is now. We're welcoming all interested contributors to help out upstream with open arms. I've had a very good experience with working together on with Fedora developers in GNOME and would love for more collaboration to happen. btw, big thanks to Mike Langlie, who did a great job on the icons for Packagekit! - Andreas ___ Fedora-art-list mailing list Fedora-art-list@redhat.com http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-art-list
Re: Echo vs the destkop
Andreas Nilsson wrote: If the system - Administration looks out of place with the rest of the system, does it help to introduce another icon style so the rest of the system looks out of place instead? But Echi is not going to be used exclusively for the Administration menu, but for the entire menu, so the icons will be consistent. A icon set is a mighty beast, bigger than it might appear at first. It have taken about 3 years for the 6-7 core icon developers upstream (with several others occasionally helping out) to where it is now. We're welcoming all interested contributors to help out upstream with open arms. I've had a very good experience with working together on with Fedora developers in GNOME and would love for more collaboration to happen. Hopefully, we can leverage your experience and make use of the useful things you discovered, like the one canvas workflow or some icon metaphors and don't reinvent the wheel, just paint it differently. -- nicu :: http://nicubunu.ro :: http://nicubunu.blogspot.com Cool Fedora wallpapers: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro/wallpapers/ Open Clip Art Library: http://www.openclipart.org my Fedora stuff: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro ___ Fedora-art-list mailing list Fedora-art-list@redhat.com http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-art-list
Re: [Echo] New system-run icon set
Martin Sourada wrote: I wasn't still happy about it so I decided to redo it from scratch. The sprockets are now distributed evenly and the top gear is smaller. It's still not there yet I think, but I leave the rest of the tweaking for you. Having the second gear smaller is a suggestion I wanted to make but I was shy about it: it was late in the discuss and I may sound much like a whiner which contribute only with words and no actual work to the icon set... So +1 from me There is still a minor observation: in the 256x256 version it looks like the small gear is not on the same plane with the other, like it is a bit backward, so maybe raise it a bit (overlap more the two gears). Reference: http://mso.fedorapeople.org/echo/Actions/system-run.svg -- nicu :: http://nicubunu.ro :: http://nicubunu.blogspot.com Cool Fedora wallpapers: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro/wallpapers/ Open Clip Art Library: http://www.openclipart.org my Fedora stuff: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro ___ Fedora-art-list mailing list Fedora-art-list@redhat.com http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-art-list
Re: [Echo] New system-run icon set
On Thu, 2008-09-25 at 12:52 +0300, Nicu Buculei wrote: Having the second gear smaller is a suggestion I wanted to make but I was shy about it: it was late in the discuss and I may sound much like a whiner which contribute only with words and no actual work to the icon set... Don't be shy about that. Suggestions and comments are also welcome contribution, if you are not confident enough to draw the icons yourself :-) So +1 from me There is still a minor observation: in the 256x256 version it looks like the small gear is not on the same plane with the other, like it is a bit backward, so maybe raise it a bit (overlap more the two gears). Hm... I didn't want the gears to touch, and being slightly apart, it creates the unwanted effect of not being on the same plane... Reference: http://mso.fedorapeople.org/echo/Actions/system-run.svg Martin signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part ___ Fedora-art-list mailing list Fedora-art-list@redhat.com http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-art-list
Re: Echo vs the destkop
I think what Andreas means is that when you install an application that is not in the default Fedora install, it's going to look out of place. All the most popular OSS packages now use the same icon style upstream, which is a major achievement, but instead Fedora chooses to do it all over again. It's not very hard to make Echo look integrated with the upstream icons, without losing its characteristics. Echo already got the thick outer stroke, i think what's most out of place is the weird perspective. What you will see happening is toolbars in applications using different kinds of icon perspectives. At least that's what I think of it. I'm not just criticising, but if you agree I will put my money where my mouth is and help out. Hylke On Thu, Sep 25, 2008 at 11:43 AM, Nicu Buculei [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Andreas Nilsson wrote: If the system - Administration looks out of place with the rest of the system, does it help to introduce another icon style so the rest of the system looks out of place instead? But Echi is not going to be used exclusively for the Administration menu, but for the entire menu, so the icons will be consistent. A icon set is a mighty beast, bigger than it might appear at first. It have taken about 3 years for the 6-7 core icon developers upstream (with several others occasionally helping out) to where it is now. We're welcoming all interested contributors to help out upstream with open arms. I've had a very good experience with working together on with Fedora developers in GNOME and would love for more collaboration to happen. Hopefully, we can leverage your experience and make use of the useful things you discovered, like the one canvas workflow or some icon metaphors and don't reinvent the wheel, just paint it differently. -- nicu :: http://nicubunu.ro :: http://nicubunu.blogspot.com Cool Fedora wallpapers: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro/wallpapers/ Open Clip Art Library: http://www.openclipart.org my Fedora stuff: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro ___ Fedora-art-list mailing list Fedora-art-list@redhat.com http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-art-list ___ Fedora-art-list mailing list Fedora-art-list@redhat.com http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-art-list
Re: Echo vs the destkop
On Thu, 2008-09-25 at 15:28 +0200, Hylke Bons wrote: I think what Andreas means is that when you install an application that is not in the default Fedora install, it's going to look out of place. All the most popular OSS packages now use the same icon style upstream, which is a major achievement, but instead Fedora chooses to do it all over again. I guess you are wrong here - you are talking only about GTK/Gnome applications, but Fedora equally supports QT/KDE applications, that use totally different style (oxygen). And because we want full desktop integration for both QT and GTK applications we are left with no other choice that create our own icons style that will not clash very much with either of them. The perspective choices were done by Diana when she started the icon set some years ago and we're probably not going to rethink them. Though I would not be against it, if there were enough people working on redoing all the icons with the better perspective. It's not very hard to make Echo look integrated with the upstream icons, without losing its characteristics. Echo already got the thick outer stroke, i think what's most out of place is the weird perspective. What you will see happening is toolbars in applications using different kinds of icon perspectives. Not necessarily. In toolbars there are primarily actions icons that have similar perspective to gnome icons (on the table or flat). At least that's what I think of it. I'm not just criticising, but if you agree I will put my money where my mouth is and help out. Hylke Martin signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part ___ Fedora-art-list mailing list Fedora-art-list@redhat.com http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-art-list
Secondary wordmark
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Pfrields/Secondary_trademark_design OK, as if things weren't exciting enough with the new Fedora 10 artwork and our progress toward a beautiful new theme, here's something I wanted to talk to the Art team about: a secondary wordmark. Having a secondary wordmark, a community-usable mark for derivative spins, will help drive more interest in Fedora. It enables a slew of use cases, some of which I've outlined in a draft of new trademark guidelines here, which are under review by Red Hat's legal department: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Pfrields/New_trademark_guidelines So why am I coming to the Artwork team? Well, it's simple -- I'm no artist. I made a couple drafts using one of the proposed word marks, Fueled by Fedora, which got a lot of positive response when I floated it around to different community members. Another great suggestion is Fedora Remix. We will probably not use something tired like Based on Fedora, nor awkward or jargon-laden, like Derived from Fedora or Contains Fedora RPMs. If anyone's got a great suggestion, I'll take it under advisement and a good design will have some weight too, but so far the two phrases I suggested above are the only ones that have had significant flash value to me and the other people who've heard them. I'm cutting the Marketing Project on the cc: line so they can pitch in ideas, and the FAB list so the Board and other watchers are aware of our progress on this issue. If you're an artist, dump your designs to: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Pfrields/Secondary_trademark_design -- or some other wiki page, but please put a link on my page so I can track them all! :-) I'll start a discussion about the wording for the mark on Fedora Marketing List which anyone should (as always) feel free to join. Thanks for your time everyone, and I hope you enjoy the opportunity to open Fedora up to a whole new group of contributors and community members! -- Paul W. Frields gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 http://paul.frields.org/ - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part ___ Fedora-art-list mailing list Fedora-art-list@redhat.com http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-art-list
Re: Fedora 10's official Default theme
On Tue, Sep 23, 2008 at 6:16 PM, Michael Beckwith [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Solar Now that Solar is selected. I would like to humbly suggest that we attempt to make a connection in our F10 release press materials to the International Heliophysical Year events. Nothing overly science geeked out, but a shout out the scientific research community participating in the IHY activities would make a lot of sense to me. And not because I'm technically one of those people. http://ihy2007.org/ Yeah it says 2007, but they really mean 2007-2009.. who knew that Heliophysical years are twice as long as Earth years. -jef ___ Fedora-art-list mailing list Fedora-art-list@redhat.com http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-art-list
Solar final fixing
Hi all, as today told on irc channel (#fedora-art) I've uploaded on fedorapeople.org an archive with screenshots attesting my work is now fixed so there will be no problem about any part of the file. You will find all at: http://sstorari.fedorapeople.org/ Please check this out and if all is correct i will go on creatin the Solar Theme. Thanks Samuele -- Samuele Storari Art Director Byte-Code srl mobile: +39 347 50 798 32 office: +39 02 9840047 http://www.byte-code.com ___ Fedora-art-list mailing list Fedora-art-list@redhat.com http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-art-list
Re: Echo vs the destkop
Hi, 2008/9/25 Martin Sourada [EMAIL PROTECTED]: On Thu, 2008-09-25 at 15:28 +0200, Hylke Bons wrote: I think what Andreas means is that when you install an application that is not in the default Fedora install, it's going to look out of place. All the most popular OSS packages now use the same icon style upstream, which is a major achievement, but instead Fedora chooses to do it all over again. I guess you are wrong here - you are talking only about GTK/Gnome applications, but Fedora equally supports QT/KDE applications, that use totally different style (oxygen). And because we want full desktop integration for both QT and GTK applications we are left with no other choice that create our own icons style that will not clash very much with either of them. The perspective choices were done by Diana when she started the icon set some years ago and we're probably not going to rethink them. Fedora does not equally support QT/KDE applications. And even if we did, there is a difference between supporting the applications and guaranteeing that they integrate perfectly with a GNOME desktop. Even if we did want QT/KDE applications to integrate perfectly into a GNOME desktop, it is not true that the only way to do this is to adopt the Oxygen icon theme styles and metaphors. It is simply not true that your only choice was to create a brand new icon theme. From what I can tell, the Tango icon theme has similar goals, is complete, and has an active community. One problem with icon set proliferation is that it makes it very difficult for applications shipping icons. Remember that not all icons on the screen are part of an icon set. In fact, one of the specific goals of the icon naming standard was to reduce the number of application icons shipped in the theme. We also fail to support the art communities upstream. Andreas has practically begged you to work with him upstream. We simply don't have enough good artists around to have turf wars over icon sets. I will join him in asking you to work upstream. So, I think that the stated reasons for creating a new icon theme are not strong, the icon set is incomplete and inconsistent, makes things more confusing for application developers, and further fractures our already small art community. Though I would not be against it, if there were enough people working on redoing all the icons with the better perspective. Consistency is not the only problem with the Echo icon theme. I propose that we officially switch back to using the upstream icons while we continue to discuss whether a new icon set is in the best interest of our larger community and the Fedora product. Meanwhile, the Echo icons can be improved, completed, and made more consistent. Thanks, Jon ___ Fedora-art-list mailing list Fedora-art-list@redhat.com http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-art-list
Re: Echo vs the destkop
On Thu, 2008-09-25 at 17:22 -0400, William Jon McCann wrote: Hi, Hi, Fedora does not equally support QT/KDE applications. And even if we I'd strongly disagree with that. QT/KDE applications has equal love from the KDE SIG as GTK/Gnome from the Desktop team, and I think the KDE SIG guys are trying hard to avert the general opinion that Fedora does not care about KDE. did, there is a difference between supporting the applications and guaranteeing that they integrate perfectly with a GNOME desktop. True, but we'd like to reduce the integration shortcomings to minimum. Even if we did want QT/KDE applications to integrate perfectly into a GNOME desktop, it is not true that the only way to do this is to adopt the Oxygen icon theme styles and metaphors. It is simply not true that your only choice was to create a brand new icon theme. From what I can tell, the Tango icon theme has similar goals, is complete, and has an active community. You got me wrong. What I was trying to say is that Gnome Icon Theme (which is current gnome upstream, Tango is IMHO worse in case of coverage) is designed for gnome, and oxygen is designed for KDE and there is zero probability that gnome switches to oxygen or kde to tango-styled icons. Echo wants to be fit for both. We cannot just prefer one set to the other, it would be unfair to the one that would not be selected, also we'd like to distinguish Fedora look and feel more from other distributions. One problem with icon set proliferation is that it makes it very difficult for applications shipping icons. Remember that not all icons on the screen are part of an icon set. In fact, one of the specific goals of the icon naming standard was to reduce the number of application icons shipped in the theme. In my opinion it's applications fault. The day icon themes were born to the world, people should have accepted the fact and make it possible to change every icon on desktop by looking them up in icon themes. It's not only because the Echo icon theme, we can replace the upstream icons if needed for Fedora, the biggest issue I see there is that it effectively blocks creating themes designed specially for people with disabilities, like HiContrast icon theme. We also fail to support the art communities upstream. Andreas has practically begged you to work with him upstream. We simply don't have enough good artists around to have turf wars over icon sets. I will join him in asking you to work upstream. Echo *is* an upstream, even though it's done by Fedora artists and for Fedora. We are interested in creating the Echo icon set, not the Gnome icon set, nor Oxygen icon set (otherwise we'd be already working on these), yet we'd like to help others as well. That's why we try to work with upstream applications to support icon themes better. So, I think that the stated reasons for creating a new icon theme are not strong, the icon set is incomplete and inconsistent, makes things more confusing for application developers, and further fractures our already small art community. Yet we have already many supporters in our user base, both from KDE and GNOME camps and every new release many people are disappointed that Echo is still not default. I know that's not a reason to include it and that's why I'd like it to be voted on by the camps that have most to say about that - Art Team and Desktop Team (and in case of KDE also the KDE SIG). Though I would not be against it, if there were enough people working on redoing all the icons with the better perspective. Consistency is not the only problem with the Echo icon theme. I propose that we officially switch back to using the upstream icons while we continue to discuss whether a new icon set is in the best interest of our larger community and the Fedora product. Meanwhile, the Echo icons can be improved, completed, and made more consistent. That will be decided by both Art and Desktop teams. I'll accept whatever way they'll decide to go, but the decision is still about a month ahead of us - and that's a plenty of time. Thanks, Jon Thanks, Martin signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part ___ Fedora-art-list mailing list Fedora-art-list@redhat.com http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-art-list
Re: Solar final fixing
Hi Samuele, Samuele Storari wrote: Hi all, as today told on irc channel (#fedora-art) I've uploaded on fedorapeople.org an archive with screenshots attesting my work is now fixed so there will be no problem about any part of the file. You will find all at: http://sstorari.fedorapeople.org/ Please check this out and if all is correct i will go on creatin the Solar Theme. It is quite obvious you have done a lot of work here to retrace and document carefully your steps and I really, really appreciate that. You've done a tremendous job! I walked through all of your screenshots. My main question (which I asked you earlier on IRC but I don't think I got a response from you on) is where did the original flare bitmap that you traced come from? I feel a little nervous about giving you an okay when I don't know the source of that bitmap, because I do not want to encourage tracing of unknown-licensed works. I think in some cases using a photo or other work as a guide can be ok, and you've certainly done some manual work in tracing it and applied to the solar graphic so that it's not that recognizable. However, I do want there to be some recognition that at least in spirit it's a bad practice to trace other people's work like that (if it is another person's work). This is especially true if you plan to publish your tutorial on doing the flare to a wider audience (which I would love to see you do! It's very useful :) ) I would really encourage you to cite that image in the tutorial if so. If the image it's from is not openly-licensed, I would encourage you to modify the tutorial such that it uses an openly-licensed photo. I know this may seem very strict and perhaps it's overly so. But I think you have to be VERY careful, especially in a tutorial setting when you are setting an example for others, to send the right message. Being very responsible and clear about your sources can only set a *good* example to your audience. So here are just two things I'd like to hear from you before I give you my approval on this: - Can you tell us the source of the flare bitmap that you started from? (I considered that perhaps you created it on your own, but it would be rather recursive to create it, trace it, and then re-create it - wouldn't it? So I assume it came from elsewhere. Where?) - Can you provide the final XCF? I would feel a lot more confident giving you my approval if I had the chance to look it over beforehand. Again, this is a tremendous effort on your part Samuele, thank you so much! I'm really looking forward to working with this new improved Solar artwork so I can start creating banners for fedoraproject.org and working on the disc and disc sleeve artwork! :) I hope this mail isn't a discouragement to you; it's obvious you have a lot of talent and I think you will be a very valuable member of the art team! ~m ___ Fedora-art-list mailing list Fedora-art-list@redhat.com http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-art-list
