Sound themes
Maybe you saw Lennarts' call for XDG sound themes: http://0pointer.de/blog/projects/free-sound-themes.html I am afraid we may have driven away Chris with the lack of feedback when he tried to create one: https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-art-list/2008-September/msg4.html Also, with the Echo experience fresh in mind, I wonder if we create a new set only to get it called a charade and if you think what you're doing is 'value add' that makes Fedora look better than the 'competition' you are wrong. -- nicu :: http://nicubunu.ro :: http://nicubunu.blogspot.com Cool Fedora wallpapers: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro/wallpapers/ Open Clip Art Library: http://www.openclipart.org my Fedora stuff: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro ___ Fedora-art-list mailing list Fedora-art-list@redhat.com http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-art-list
Re: Solar derived artwork under GPLv2+
For me there's no problem to license the image in GPLv2+. But I think that right now Fedora is the holder of the artwork. But if I had to do something, or write something, I will. Let me know. Cheers Samuele - Original Message - From: Charlie Brej [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Fedora Art List fedora-art-list@redhat.com Sent: Thursday, 23 October, 2008 11:12:49 AM GMT +01:00 Amsterdam / Berlin / Bern / Rome / Stockholm / Vienna Subject: Solar derived artwork under GPLv2+ Would it be possible for the copyright holders of the solar artwork to permit two derived images to be licensed under GPLv2+. Images: http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/~brejc8/temp/background.png http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/~brejc8/temp/star.png This would remove some complications around packaging the Plymouth solar plugin. ___ Fedora-art-list mailing list Fedora-art-list@redhat.com http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-art-list -- Samuele Storari Art Director Byte-Code srl mobile: +39 347 50 798 32 office: +39 02 9840047 http://www.byte-code.com ___ Fedora-art-list mailing list Fedora-art-list@redhat.com http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-art-list
Re: Solar derived artwork under GPLv2+
Samuele Storari wrote: For me there's no problem to license the image in GPLv2+. But I think that right now Fedora is the holder of the artwork. You will be *always* the copyright holder for your work. By signing the CLA you allow Fedora to use your work under a certain license, but your rights remain intact. But if I had to do something, or write something, I will. Let me know. This email should be enough. -- nicu :: http://nicubunu.ro :: http://nicubunu.blogspot.com Cool Fedora wallpapers: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro/wallpapers/ Open Clip Art Library: http://www.openclipart.org my Fedora stuff: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro ___ Fedora-art-list mailing list Fedora-art-list@redhat.com http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-art-list
Re: Solar derived artwork under GPLv2+
So the final license will be CC-BY-SA and/or GPLv2+? Currently I'm preparing package for Solar KDE Themes (rhbz#467943) and it's now CC-BY-SA. R. --- Jaroslav Reznik [EMAIL PROTECTED] Software Engineer - Base OS Core Services Brno Red Hat, Inc. +420 532 294 275 - Nicu Buculei [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Samuele Storari wrote: For me there's no problem to license the image in GPLv2+. But I think that right now Fedora is the holder of the artwork. You will be *always* the copyright holder for your work. By signing the CLA you allow Fedora to use your work under a certain license, but your rights remain intact. But if I had to do something, or write something, I will. Let me know. This email should be enough. -- nicu :: http://nicubunu.ro :: http://nicubunu.blogspot.com Cool Fedora wallpapers: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro/wallpapers/ Open Clip Art Library: http://www.openclipart.org my Fedora stuff: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro ___ Fedora-art-list mailing list Fedora-art-list@redhat.com http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-art-list ___ Fedora-art-list mailing list Fedora-art-list@redhat.com http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-art-list
Re: Solar derived artwork under GPLv2+
Jaroslav Reznik wrote: So the final license will be CC-BY-SA and/or GPLv2+? Currently I'm preparing package for Solar KDE Themes (rhbz#467943) and it's now CC-BY-SA. From my understanding, it's both. It was originally released as CC-BY-SA and the author just allowed also GPLv2+ -- nicu :: http://nicubunu.ro :: http://nicubunu.blogspot.com Cool Fedora wallpapers: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro/wallpapers/ Open Clip Art Library: http://www.openclipart.org my Fedora stuff: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro ___ Fedora-art-list mailing list Fedora-art-list@redhat.com http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-art-list
Re: Solar derived artwork under GPLv2+
Charlie Brej wrote: Nicu Buculei wrote: From my understanding, it's both. It was originally released as CC-BY-SA and the author just allowed also GPLv2+ I just wanted the two images dual licensed under GPLv2. The rest can stay as CC-BY-SA which (AFAIK) is a better licence for artwork. The best option is dual license, both CC-BY-SA and GPL, otherwise you can go in murky waters: the GPL talks about the source code, and what is the source fode for those two images? The layered .xcf. So having a consistent (dual) license is the easiest way. -- nicu :: http://nicubunu.ro :: http://nicubunu.blogspot.com Cool Fedora wallpapers: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro/wallpapers/ Open Clip Art Library: http://www.openclipart.org my Fedora stuff: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro ___ Fedora-art-list mailing list Fedora-art-list@redhat.com http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-art-list
Re: Solar derived artwork under GPLv2+
- Nicu Buculei [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Charlie Brej wrote: Nicu Buculei wrote: From my understanding, it's both. It was originally released as CC-BY-SA and the author just allowed also GPLv2+ I just wanted the two images dual licensed under GPLv2. The rest can stay as CC-BY-SA which (AFAIK) is a better licence for artwork. The best option is dual license, both CC-BY-SA and GPL, otherwise you can go in murky waters: the GPL talks about the source code, and what is the source fode for those two images? The layered .xcf. So having a consistent (dual) license is the easiest way. Ok, sounds good for me. So I'm going to use multiple licenses for solar-kde-theme. CC-BY-SA for artwork and GPLv2 for source code of themes (it's inherited work from original KDM theme). Thanks! R. -- nicu :: http://nicubunu.ro :: http://nicubunu.blogspot.com Cool Fedora wallpapers: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro/wallpapers/ Open Clip Art Library: http://www.openclipart.org my Fedora stuff: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro ___ Fedora-art-list mailing list Fedora-art-list@redhat.com http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-art-list ___ Fedora-art-list mailing list Fedora-art-list@redhat.com http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-art-list
Re: Fedora 10 Countdown
On Thu, Oct 23, 2008 at 08:51:27AM +0300, Nicu Buculei wrote: Probably is a good idea to have the countdown banner based on the beta banner[1] (if that is made using a clean source). http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Image:Fedora-10-beta-release-graphic.png I made it so that it would be. Wouldn't be too hard to hack the XML and make it work with one of mizmo's previous scripts. The SVG should be on the wiki but I'm posting it here again. -- Ian Weller [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://ianweller.org GnuPG fingerprint: E51E 0517 7A92 70A2 4226 B050 87ED 7C97 EFA8 4A36 Technology is a word that describes something that doesn't work yet. ~ Douglas Adams ?xml version=1.0 encoding=UTF-8 standalone=no? !-- Created with Inkscape (http://www.inkscape.org/) -- svg xmlns:dc=http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/; xmlns:cc=http://creativecommons.org/ns#; xmlns:rdf=http://www.w3.org/1999/02/22-rdf-syntax-ns#; xmlns:svg=http://www.w3.org/2000/svg; xmlns=http://www.w3.org/2000/svg; xmlns:xlink=http://www.w3.org/1999/xlink; xmlns:sodipodi=http://sodipodi.sourceforge.net/DTD/sodipodi-0.dtd; xmlns:inkscape=http://www.inkscape.org/namespaces/inkscape; width=200 height=100 id=svg2 sodipodi:version=0.32 inkscape:version=0.46 version=1.0 sodipodi:docname=fedora-10-beta-release-graphic.svg inkscape:output_extension=org.inkscape.output.svg.inkscape inkscape:export-filename=/home/ianweller/art/f10/fedora-10-beta-release-graphic.png inkscape:export-xdpi=90 inkscape:export-ydpi=90 sodipodi:namedview id=base pagecolor=#ff bordercolor=#66 borderopacity=1.0 gridtolerance=1 guidetolerance=10 objecttolerance=10 inkscape:pageopacity=0.0 inkscape:pageshadow=2 inkscape:zoom=1 inkscape:cx=203.85087 inkscape:cy=58.365827 inkscape:document-units=px inkscape:current-layer=layer1 showgrid=false showborder=false inkscape:showpageshadow=true showguides=true inkscape:guide-bbox=true / defs id=defs4 linearGradient id=linearGradient3289 stop style=stop-color:#1a2330;stop-opacity:0; offset=0 id=stop3291 / stop style=stop-color:#57749d;stop-opacity:0.78431374; offset=1 id=stop3293 / /linearGradient linearGradient id=linearGradient3281 stop style=stop-color:#9ad5ed;stop-opacity:0.56521738; offset=0 id=stop3283 / stop style=stop-color:#ff;stop-opacity:0.70434785; offset=1 id=stop3285 / /linearGradient linearGradient id=linearGradient3261 stop style=stop-color:#00;stop-opacity:1; offset=0 id=stop3263 / stop style=stop-color:#00;stop-opacity:0; offset=1 id=stop3265 / /linearGradient inkscape:perspective sodipodi:type=inkscape:persp3d inkscape:vp_x=0 : 526.18109 : 1 inkscape:vp_y=0 : 1000 : 0 inkscape:vp_z=744.09448 : 526.18109 : 1 inkscape:persp3d-origin=372.04724 : 350.78739 : 1 id=perspective10 / inkscape:perspective id=perspective2447 inkscape:persp3d-origin=372.04724 : 350.78739 : 1 inkscape:vp_z=744.09448 : 526.18109 : 1 inkscape:vp_y=0 : 1000 : 0 inkscape:vp_x=0 : 526.18109 : 1 sodipodi:type=inkscape:persp3d / linearGradient inkscape:collect=always xlink:href=#linearGradient3261 id=linearGradient3267 x1=64.627838 y1=63.977077 x2=64.627838 y2=7.3641171 gradientUnits=userSpaceOnUse / linearGradient inkscape:collect=always xlink:href=#linearGradient3281 id=linearGradient3287 x1=75.212456 y1=9.512 x2=75.212456 y2=60.792 gradientUnits=userSpaceOnUse gradientTransform=matrix(1.0771158,0,0,1.0771158,-10.18341,2.2666289) / linearGradient inkscape:collect=always xlink:href=#linearGradient3281 id=linearGradient3301 gradientUnits=userSpaceOnUse x1=75.212456 y1=9.512 x2=75.212456 y2=60.792 gradientTransform=matrix(0.4410726,0,0,0.4410726,36.097062,53.676677) / linearGradient inkscape:collect=always xlink:href=#linearGradient3289 id=linearGradient3303 gradientUnits=userSpaceOnUse x1=61.280907 y1=8.012 x2=61.280907 y2=62.298862 gradientTransform=matrix(0.4410726,0,0,0.4410726,36.097062,53.676677) / inkscape:perspective sodipodi:type=inkscape:persp3d inkscape:vp_x=0 : 526.18109 : 1 inkscape:vp_y=0 : 1000 : 0 inkscape:vp_z=744.09448 : 526.18109 : 1 inkscape:persp3d-origin=372.04724 : 350.78739 : 1 id=perspective2523 / mask id=mask2533 maskUnits=userSpaceOnUse rect
four f's poster designs
Hey folks, I put together some designs for the four f's posters. They are *very* different than our infinity freedom community ones. Because they are such a departure (a lot less shiny) and a little weird, I won't be broken-hearted if you hate them, just let me know. I designed them so you could use any of them alone, or you can use them together and connect them to make an even bigger poster. They are also designed so they are more of a backdrop than a main event. Influences include sari fabric (do you see it?), Red Hat's website background, and quilts! You'll see what I mean when you look at them, I think/hope. Anyhow, here's the individual posters. There's one for each f, then there are two that have all four f's on them: http://duffy.fedorapeople.org/collateral/fourfs/individual%20posters/ Here's what they look like connected to make a bigger poster and what they look like lined up horizontally: http://duffy.fedorapeople.org/collateral/fourfs/four-fs-four-posters.png Let me know what you think. If we want to go for another look let's talk about the kind of look/feel we should try. Any Fedora Ambassadors reading this, I'd especially like to hear what direction you think we should go in as you're the folks with these posters at events competing with other booths/tables. ~m ___ Fedora-art-list mailing list Fedora-art-list@redhat.com http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-art-list
Artwork Quality (was Re: Sound themes)
William Jon McCann wrote: It is not often fun to be told that your work is not good enough or inappropriate. It seems you've hijacked a thread about sound themes to indirectly allude that the art team's work is not good enough or appropriate. If you do believe this, it would be better to give direct feedback rather than beat around the bush. Specific critiques about the Fedora 10 artwork, which I think exceeds the F9 artwork by far, would be greatly appreciated. Also, please consider that we have a number of non-native English speakers here who might not necessarily pick up on the nuances of your message. And it is an essential part of how human development works. You simply can't grow without it. In this aspect, art design is no different from software design. I trust that was meant with the best of intentions, so I'm sad to admit I can't help finding this somewhat patronizing, sorry. You would be right to point out here that we don't all agree on what our audience is and what our product should feel like. That is indeed a serious problem. How do you propose to fix it? Another problem is how you define who the judges are. Do you try to poll your audience? (requires you to clearly define the audience) Do you trust your peers? (must define peers) Do you trust the critics/experts? While you have not come out and said directly to what you would like to apply these questions to, I'm happy to be quite direct and state that we have done all of the above on the art team. Over the past few releases we've tried different things and learning from them. Growing as human beings you could say, I suppose. It is a tough problem. But it always goes back to audience. Otherwise you may create something that is beautiful, complete, and wrong. Again, I can't help but feel a bit patronized. I think that the desktop wallpapers we've used by default are a good example of this: http://blogs.gnome.org/mccann/2008/05/30/state-of-the-art-wallpapers/ Why not just say the Fedora 9 wallpapers sucked instead of going to all that effort? I wouldn't argue with you on it. There were some real stinkers before we had a community art process as well. Same with the bits of the release in general, we've had some real stinkers with some broken bits shipped out of the box. So artwork and code, we've never been perfect every release. Even so, there are quite a few fans of the F9 wallpaper despite its suckage. Switching gears slightly. When resources are limited, fragmentation often results in inconsistency. Or, when the problem space is too large or unbounded the best we can do is to define standards. For desktop apps we have the GNOME Human Interface Guidelines. For icon themes we have the Tango guidelines, and the upcoming Mango guidelines. Widget themes are slightly different because the problem is basically bounded - there are only so many widgets to theme. Artwork is a little different and harder to pin down than GUI design guidelines (which are also very difficult to pin down except on the very top, surface level which is all the GNOME HIG itself has actual clear guidelines for.) We have some basic guidelines that the artwork adhere to a theme that can be clearly linked back to the spirit and goals of Fedora. Its base color is typically a shade of blue that is the same or complementary to the official Fedora logo colors. We have specific guidelines about resolution, aspect ratio, elements (where the logo is and isn't allowed), and formats for every bit of artwork we put into the release. These requirements, of course, are just as surface-level as the guidelines for widget usage in the HIG. Just as you can't follow a formula like the GNOME HIG and pop out a beautiful, usable interface, you can't follow a formula like the Fedora theme guidelines and pop out a beautiful theme. The magic inbetween that makes something good is design. I'm quite saddened by the fact that you don't seem to believe this team has or is capable of having that magic, but I suppose to relate it to coding as you did in your message, perhaps not everyone felt Linus had the magic or capability to develop the magic necessary to start a real, usable operating system. I suppose you could suggest we hire a professional Artist to sit in a room by themselves and design the entire theme all by themselves to get something beautiful, perfect, and befitting our high-quality desktop, but then you'd be in conflict designing artwork in a closed manner for a community operating system. It's not really fair to make comparisons to how software development and code works only when it is convenient so let's be fair and complete the analogy. The thing is, when one person designs things in a vaccuum, you only ever see the end product and you never see the work-in-progress so the end result I think always seems so impressive than if you had seen it develop in stages. Unfortunately with the open
Re: four f's poster designs
Mairin Duffy wrote: Hey folks, I put together some designs for the four f's posters. They are *very* different than our infinity freedom community ones. Because they are such a departure (a lot less shiny) and a little weird, I won't be broken-hearted if you hate them, just let me know. I designed them so you could use any of them alone, or you can use them together and connect them to make an even bigger poster. They are also designed so they are more of a backdrop than a main event. Influences include sari fabric (do you see it?), Red Hat's website background, and quilts! You'll see what I mean when you look at them, I think/hope. Shame on me, I forgot to note that the 'first' and 'features' icons were designed by Nicu Buculei [1,2], so thanks Nicu! :) ~m [1] https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-art-list/2008-September/msg00146.html [2] https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-art-list/2008-September/msg00181.html ___ Fedora-art-list mailing list Fedora-art-list@redhat.com http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-art-list
Re: Artwork Quality (was Re: Sound themes)
On Thu, Oct 23, 2008 at 11:02 PM, Máirín Duffy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: William Jon McCann wrote: It is not often fun to be told that your work is not good enough or inappropriate. It seems you've hijacked a thread about sound themes to indirectly allude that the art team's work is not good enough or appropriate. If you do believe this, it would be better to give direct feedback rather than beat around the bush. Specific critiques about the Fedora 10 artwork, which I think exceeds the F9 artwork by far, would be greatly appreciated. Also, please consider that we have a number of non-native English speakers here who might not necessarily pick up on the nuances of your message. [...snip...] The Artwork team has always been open, in my experience, to criticism and suggestions about artwork. They exemplify the way Fedora teams work openly and transparently in a cooperative effort. And they've consistently turned out designs that are always solid, and often spectacular, not just for the desktop but for a variety of other uses too. We can absolutely have dissension and discussion about artwork and design -- with specifics about what needs work. At the end of the day, the Fedora Artwork team has been charged with the responsibility of the look and feel of Fedora. They're expected to do -- and have done -- that work in a community-friendly way, and people who want to have input into the process should do the same. Paul ___ Fedora-art-list mailing list Fedora-art-list@redhat.com http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-art-list
Re: four f's poster designs
On Thu, 2008-10-23 at 23:19 -0400, Máirín Duffy wrote: Mairin Duffy wrote: Hey folks, I put together some designs for the four f's posters. They are *very* different than our infinity freedom community ones. Because they are such a departure (a lot less shiny) and a little weird, I won't be broken-hearted if you hate them, just let me know. I designed them so you could use any of them alone, or you can use them together and connect them to make an even bigger poster. They are also designed so they are more of a backdrop than a main event. Influences include sari fabric (do you see it?), Red Hat's website background, and quilts! You'll see what I mean when you look at them, I think/hope. Shame on me, I forgot to note that the 'first' and 'features' icons were designed by Nicu Buculei [1,2], so thanks Nicu! :) That goes for me too. Great work Nicu, you have helped create something truly fantastic IMHO. -- Paul W. Frields gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 http://paul.frields.org/ - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug ___ Fedora-art-list mailing list Fedora-art-list@redhat.com http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-art-list
Re: four f's poster designs
On Thu, Oct 23, 2008 at 10:02:57PM -0400, Mairin Duffy wrote: Let me know what you think. If we want to go for another look let's talk about the kind of look/feel we should try. Any Fedora Ambassadors reading this, I'd especially like to hear what direction you think we should go in as you're the folks with these posters at events competing with other booths/tables. Quick thought -- how large will the two-line text be for each poster? I didn't notice it until I looked at the individual posters. If they can't be read from about 6 feet away, I think they need to be enlarged or removed... -- Ian Weller [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://ianweller.org GnuPG fingerprint: E51E 0517 7A92 70A2 4226 B050 87ED 7C97 EFA8 4A36 Technology is a word that describes something that doesn't work yet. ~ Douglas Adams pgpgTP4PdhuBj.pgp Description: PGP signature ___ Fedora-art-list mailing list Fedora-art-list@redhat.com http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-art-list
Re: four f's poster designs
Ian Weller wrote: On Thu, Oct 23, 2008 at 10:02:57PM -0400, Mairin Duffy wrote: Let me know what you think. If we want to go for another look let's talk about the kind of look/feel we should try. Any Fedora Ambassadors reading this, I'd especially like to hear what direction you think we should go in as you're the folks with these posters at events competing with other booths/tables. Quick thought -- how large will the two-line text be for each poster? I didn't notice it until I looked at the individual posters. If they can't be read from about 6 feet away, I think they need to be enlarged or removed... I was thinking these would be printed at maybe 20x30 or maybe larger proportions. These are just rough cuts so they do need some padding to fit that ratio, right now they scale to 20x~24. At 20x24, the two rows of text together are (if I'm measuring right) about 1.5 tall so I'm thinking not readable from 6 feet away. Do you think they'd work if we just took the text out? Maybe it could be resized and the little sound bites shortened even more, into 2-3 word phrases? ~m ___ Fedora-art-list mailing list Fedora-art-list@redhat.com http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-art-list
Re: four f's poster designs
Mairin -- these are just fabulous (IMHO, ie, not an artist or designer)! Could see these icons tell the story in so many use cases, alone and combined. Really great work... leigh Mairin Duffy wrote: Hey folks, I put together some designs for the four f's posters. They are *very* different than our infinity freedom community ones. Because they are such a departure (a lot less shiny) and a little weird, I won't be broken-hearted if you hate them, just let me know. I designed them so you could use any of them alone, or you can use them together and connect them to make an even bigger poster. They are also designed so they are more of a backdrop than a main event. Influences include sari fabric (do you see it?), Red Hat's website background, and quilts! You'll see what I mean when you look at them, I think/hope. Anyhow, here's the individual posters. There's one for each f, then there are two that have all four f's on them: http://duffy.fedorapeople.org/collateral/fourfs/individual%20posters/ Here's what they look like connected to make a bigger poster and what they look like lined up horizontally: http://duffy.fedorapeople.org/collateral/fourfs/four-fs-four-posters.png Let me know what you think. If we want to go for another look let's talk about the kind of look/feel we should try. Any Fedora Ambassadors reading this, I'd especially like to hear what direction you think we should go in as you're the folks with these posters at events competing with other booths/tables. ~m ___ Fedora-art-list mailing list Fedora-art-list@redhat.com http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-art-list
Re: four f's poster designs
On Fri, Oct 24, 2008 at 12:31:21AM -0400, Máirín Duffy wrote: I was thinking these would be printed at maybe 20x30 or maybe larger proportions. These are just rough cuts so they do need some padding to fit that ratio, right now they scale to 20x~24. At 20x24, the two rows of text together are (if I'm measuring right) about 1.5 tall so I'm thinking not readable from 6 feet away. Do you think they'd work if we just took the text out? Maybe it could be resized and the little sound bites shortened even more, into 2-3 word phrases? Well, if those are that small, then is the text in the bubbles (i.e., 'FEATURES') large enough? Should they be reprinted at about the same transparency as the reprinted symbol for the foundation? Or something? Back on the blurbs, they can definitely be shortened. What I think they should be (mostly adapted from mo's blurbs): freedom: freedom trumps conveinence # bit iffy on the word 'trumps', but it's all I could think of friends: friends around the world features: fedora can do it first: followed, not following -- Ian Weller [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://ianweller.org GnuPG fingerprint: E51E 0517 7A92 70A2 4226 B050 87ED 7C97 EFA8 4A36 Technology is a word that describes something that doesn't work yet. ~ Douglas Adams pgppNHvw6AlMT.pgp Description: PGP signature ___ Fedora-art-list mailing list Fedora-art-list@redhat.com http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-art-list
