Re: Here are some of my ideas for Fedora 8 and Fedora 9
On Tue, 2007-07-03 at 13:44 -0400, Kelly wrote: Beagle doesn't waste resources? Even Google Desktop is more efficient than Beagle, which has been the cause of serious memory slowndown on every Linux system I've run with it installed. And I haven't seen any performance with beagle on or off. My 3 systems with mupltiple fedora core 6, fedora 7 and rawhide work same with beagle on or off. I also tested it on a really poor celeron and only 256mb laptop with ubuntu running. I disabled beagle completely on this laptop and it still it's performance was bad as it was before I disabled beagle and some other stuff. the moral of the story: If you have crappy hardware you will have crappy performance and it doesn't matter if beagle is running or not. If you have good hardware you will have nice performance no matter if beagle is on or off. ___ Fedora-art-list mailing list Fedora-art-list@redhat.com http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-art-list
Re: Here are some of my ideas for Fedora 8 and Fedora 9
Valent, The burden of making beagle work is on the people who want to have beagle in by default like you, everyone else is entitled to decide the hassle of debugging or helping to debug beagle outweights the benefits. beagle is one of the few applications I know people manually remove from their systems when it's installed. Till it reaches the point people who don't use it don't notice it's installed there's no use asking for it to be in the default install. There's being useful There's being not so useful but not intrusive And there's being not so useful and very intrusive. Beagle is at state 3 today. That's not a good state. But it won't change by pestering people who didn't ask for beagle in the first place and had to make the effort to remove it because it was degrading their systems. -- Nicolas Mailhot ___ Fedora-art-list mailing list Fedora-art-list@redhat.com http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-art-list
Re: Here are some of my ideas for Fedora 8 and Fedora 9
On Wed, 2007-07-04 at 13:34 +0200, Nicolas Mailhot wrote: Valent, The burden of making beagle work is on the people who want to have beagle in by default like you, everyone else is entitled to decide the hassle of debugging or helping to debug beagle outweights the benefits. beagle is one of the few applications I know people manually remove from their systems when it's installed. Till it reaches the point people who don't use it don't notice it's installed there's no use asking for it to be in the default install. Well I would argue that the people who remove it are a minority, not the other way around. I have seen beagle installed on multiple systems and it is as unobtrusive as an app can be. I have tested it on Fedora Core6, multiple Fedora 7 installations and now I'm testing it on Rawhide. So I have extensive experience with beagle. There's being useful There's being not so useful but not intrusive And there's being not so useful and very intrusive. Beagle is at state 3 today. That's not a good state. For me it is at state 1. And by me I don't mean only one lone desktop. As I have told you I run multiple copies on multiple hardware sutups - and on all of them beagle is at state 1. I would be writing this year ago when I was running Fedora 5 ane beagle was a nightmare, but it has gone a long way since then. But it won't change by pestering people who didn't ask for beagle in the first place and had to make the effort to remove it because it was degrading their systems. Sorry if my approach seams a bit rough, but I find english hard to translate finer points, but as you can guess it is not my mother tongue. But now do the same people than have a vote what does in the default install and what does not if they don't give an effort to troubleshoot it a little. Only saying me too to a bugzilla entry or on a mailing list makes beagle look bad but only because the majority of people who don't have issues with beagle don't even go to these mailing lists or to bugzilla. If you have tested beagle on multiple systems and find it causing problems then please excuse me - show us your test results and that is ok. I have seen much bigger issues with some apps in Fedora and they aren't removed from default install. Like a big, really huge bug with new user-switcher applet (look for my bugzilla entry) in Fedora 7. What is a great feature but it caused data and time loss for me! I have multiple resource meters running, and I see when my system acts strange and inspect it. Usually it is Firefox who causes my CPU to go to 100%. Should Firefox be removed because of this from default fedora install? ___ Fedora-art-list mailing list Fedora-art-list@redhat.com http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-art-list
Re: Here are some of my ideas for Fedora 8 and Fedora 9
Valent Turkovic wrote: Sorry if my approach seams a bit rough, but I find english hard to translate finer points, but as you can guess it is not my mother tongue. That's ok but this whole discussing has nothing to do with artwork and sending such mails to multiple lists is unnecessary. Stick to one list and discuss it there. Thanks. Rahul ___ Fedora-art-list mailing list Fedora-art-list@redhat.com http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-art-list
Re: Here are some of my ideas for Fedora 8 and Fedora 9
Le Mer 4 juillet 2007 14:52, Valent Turkovic a écrit : Well I would argue that the people who remove it are a minority, not the other way around. That's not an argument when talking about breakage. Most problems only affect a minority and we don't ignore them. I have seen much bigger issues with some apps in Fedora and they aren't removed from default install. Like a big, really huge bug with new user-switcher applet (look for my bugzilla entry) in Fedora 7. What is a great feature but it caused data and time loss for me! I have multiple resource meters running, and I see when my system acts strange and inspect it. Usually it is Firefox who causes my CPU to go to 100%. Should Firefox be removed because of this from default fedora install? Bad comparison. Beagle causes problems even when users do not actively exercise it That's why it was kicked from the default install. The minimum to get in the default install is to have a neutral behavior when not used. And that'll be my last post on the subject till you come with evidence beagle is not doing this. And not only on your own systems. -- Nicolas Mailhot ___ Fedora-art-list mailing list Fedora-art-list@redhat.com http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-art-list
Re: Here are some of my ideas for Fedora 8 and Fedora 9
Valent Turkovic wrote: Well I would argue that the people who remove it are a minority, not the other way around. I have seen beagle installed on multiple systems and it is as unobtrusive as an app can be. I have tested it on Fedora Core6, multiple Fedora 7 installations and now I'm testing it on Rawhide. So I have extensive experience with beagle. This thread isn't on topic for this list at all. Can you look for a more appropriate list? ~m ___ Fedora-art-list mailing list Fedora-art-list@redhat.com http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-art-list
Re: Here are some of my ideas for Fedora 8 and Fedora 9
On 7/3/07, Paul [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Mon, 2007-07-02 at 23:24 +0200, Valent Turkovic wrote: SNIP * NTFS support during installation there should be NTFS support built in to anaconda so that ntfs partitions are automatically recognized and added to /etc/fstab - and that users are given an option to make them read-only or to be mounted in read-write mode. I don't believe this is possible because of non-free licensing reasons. Please reconsider your statement. NTFS is not any longer on forbidden list and also ntfs-3g rpms are available from default repositories. also check out this bugzilla entry: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=65749 The reason for Firefox Icon not being used is that you can change your browser to some other though the preferred applications control panel to something else. Nothing like clicking on the Firefox icon and firing up Links! When default browsing app changes so should the icon. To me this feels like a roulet - you see an icon but you place bets before clicking it and then see what app starts after you click it. It should be unambiguous which apps starts from just looking at the icon. If it is firefox it should be firefox icon, if it is other some other browser that the icon should be also changer to it's default icon. * Desktop shortcut for joining Fedora IRC (aka Get Live Help) Fedora is about freedom+communication, right? Why not make this statement more that just a nice slogan. If you installed saabyon linux SNIP in IRC chat room and was on my way after I got quick help. Whis kind of help was precious to me and would love to see it in fedora as one of it's main features and not just as a slogan. screenshot: http://www.flickr.com/photo_zoom.gne?id=382063978size=l Not a bad idea ... I would give that a +1 I just ripped the idea from Sabayon linux guys... but it is a great one. * Desktop folder with examples of what this linux thing can do :) This is especially important for a live cd versions. Ubuntu has this SNIP great value in video presentation and include some great videos on Fedora 8 live CD. ubuntu examples: http://johnny.chadda.se/wp-content/uploads/2006/06/Ubuntu_Examples.png and another: http://knowledge76.com/images/thumb/800px-Dapper_examples.png Not a bad idea, though I would definitely allow not installing them if you don't want/need the extra cruft. The ones I've liked are the We Are Here and the fedora remix videos. Of the RedHat ones I always liked Truth Happens and Inevitable There are really nice fedora showcase videos, as you listed some, and they deserver to be presented to new users. * a working Burning app for Fedora Gnome desktop Put any new user in front of fresh Fedora 7 desktop and ask them to SNIP a link for CD Recoder placed somewhere under Applications menu and not Places menu. Well the current one works like the windows XP one does ... drop in a burnable disk and drop files into the folder and click Write to Disk. I rather like the way Nautilus one works ... for most stuff it's all that's needed. I don't know anybody in Croatia that uses windows default app to burn disks. Everybody here uses Nero Burning Rom, or at least 80% of windows users. Maybe that is a local thing, but I believe that it is also the case in the rest of the Europe and the US. One thing also that I have observed is that users don't insert blank cd/dvd first. First thing they do is to look for the burning app, compile the list of files for burning and only then they insert bland cd or dvd. If you have some other experience with new users please share it with us. It is easy to test this. Put some folder on the desktop and say to your coworker, sister, brother or a friend to burn it to a blank CD and watch what they do. Did you test for do this? I did and this is my experience. That is why we need a better and more usable way to burn data under fedora gnome desktop. -- http://kernelreloaded.blog385.com/ linux, blog, anime, spirituality, windsurf, wireless registered as user #367004 with the Linux Counter, http://counter.li.org. ICQ: 2125241 Skype: valent.turkovic ___ Fedora-art-list mailing list Fedora-art-list@redhat.com http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-art-list
Re: Here are some of my ideas for Fedora 8 and Fedora 9
On Monday, July 02, 2007 5:24 pm Valent Turkovic wrote: * Beagle and Deskbar installed by default these applications make all the difference for an desktop user between an OK user experience and wonderful user experience. Work flow using these two applications is radically improved and this is what should be showcased as a Modern linux desktop. - also I would add a beagle firefox plugin which also makes all the difference when you need some resource you saw online but didn't bookmark it or put it on del.ico.us - these apps don't waste resources, and the memory footprint is really not that much, especially if put in context that you really have to look hard these days for a system that has less or equal to 256MB of memory. I tested beagle on 3 laptop systems with fedora 6 / 7 and one desktop with also fedora 6 / 7 and I didn't have a single issue. So for me not to have in installed in Fedora 7 was a big disappointment. Beagle doesn't waste resources? Even Google Desktop is more efficient than Beagle, which has been the cause of serious memory slowndown on every Linux system I've run with it installed. -- Please avoid sending me Word or PowerPoint attachments. See http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html ___ Fedora-art-list mailing list Fedora-art-list@redhat.com http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-art-list
Re: Here are some of my ideas for Fedora 8 and Fedora 9
On Mon, 2007-07-02 at 23:24 +0200, Valent Turkovic wrote: SNIP * NTFS support during installation there should be NTFS support built in to anaconda so that ntfs partitions are automatically recognized and added to /etc/fstab - and that users are given an option to make them read-only or to be mounted in read-write mode. I don't believe this is possible because of non-free licensing reasons. * Beagle and Deskbar installed by default these applications make all the difference for an desktop user between an OK user experience and wonderful user experience. Work flow using these two applications is radically improved and this is what should be showcased as a Modern linux desktop. I could go either way with this ... I personally did not like it, of course I prefer the Windows Classic setting when using Windows also. - also I would add a beagle firefox plugin which also makes all the difference when you need some resource you saw online but didn't bookmark it or put it on del.ico.us - these apps don't waste resources, and the memory footprint is really not that much, especially if put in context that you really have to look hard these days for a system that has less or equal to 256MB of memory. I tested beagle on 3 laptop systems with fedora 6 / 7 and one desktop with also fedora 6 / 7 and I didn't have a single issue. So for me not to have in installed in Fedora 7 was a big disappointment. For me beagle seemed to cause the system to become a bit laggy when it was indexing on my old P4. On a dual core I have not noticed it working, but that's my experience. * Firefox to have it's original icon in gnome panel the icon fedora uses makes me search for firefox icon all the time. I guess that I'm not the only one. Firefox has one of the most recognisable icons I have ever seen and simply don't see why fedora uses non-firefox icon. It just confuses users. The reason for Firefox Icon not being used is that you can change your browser to some other though the preferred applications control panel to something else. Nothing like clicking on the Firefox icon and firing up Links! * Desktop shortcut for joining Fedora IRC (aka Get Live Help) Fedora is about freedom+communication, right? Why not make this statement more that just a nice slogan. If you installed saabyon linux SNIP in IRC chat room and was on my way after I got quick help. Whis kind of help was precious to me and would love to see it in fedora as one of it's main features and not just as a slogan. screenshot: http://www.flickr.com/photo_zoom.gne?id=382063978size=l Not a bad idea ... I would give that a +1 * Desktop folder with examples of what this linux thing can do :) This is especially important for a live cd versions. Ubuntu has this SNIP great value in video presentation and include some great videos on Fedora 8 live CD. ubuntu examples: http://johnny.chadda.se/wp-content/uploads/2006/06/Ubuntu_Examples.png and another: http://knowledge76.com/images/thumb/800px-Dapper_examples.png Not a bad idea, though I would definitely allow not installing them if you don't want/need the extra cruft. The ones I've liked are the We Are Here and the fedora remix videos. Of the RedHat ones I always liked Truth Happens and Inevitable * a working Burning app for Fedora Gnome desktop Put any new user in front of fresh Fedora 7 desktop and ask them to SNIP a link for CD Recoder placed somewhere under Applications menu and not Places menu. Well the current one works like the windows XP one does ... drop in a burnable disk and drop files into the folder and click Write to Disk. I rather like the way Nautilus one works ... for most stuff it's all that's needed. Regards, Paul Berger ___ Fedora-art-list mailing list Fedora-art-list@redhat.com http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-art-list
