Re: Nodoka Notification Theme [Re: Nodoka suggestions for Fedora 10]
2008/4/13, Martin Sourada <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > > And i have a nice update on the mockup. > > > > Changelog > > - bottom bar fully adjusted to fit the nodoka theme > > - notification balloon content is greadly adjusted with a real world > > scenario (asymetric thing not solved yet) > > - - Added close image in the balloon > > - - added orange bar (nice style and can be any colour) > > - - added a image of the updates (64x64 fits nicely there) > > - - played with font sized and bold > > - added the desktop image to the bottom bar (men that image just > > doesn't fit that style) > > - Changed the bottom bar buttons > > - - Made them a bit lighter > > - - Made the effects a little more "glowy/glossy" > > > > And you can see the changes in the image here: > > http://img245.imageshack.us/img245/3089/fedora10mockupv02nf6.png > > > > To me it looks really nice now! Hope you think the same. > > > Sorry for the really late answer, but I've not managed to get some spare > time to take a closer look at it up until now. I'll focus only on the > notification part (for now). First about your sketch. > > What I like: > * Rounded corners, might be even more rounded > * Soft gradients > > What I don't like > * Stripe padded > * Usage of not very fitting, IMHO, type of gradient in the stripe > * "Inner outline" > * Close button hardly visible, cursive-like > * Padding too small for text > > Now why I waited with the answer so long. I've set up a wiki page for > tracking the progress (both art and coding) of the notification theme > and put my design on that as well. It's based of yours, yet it's > different a lot. > > * I used warmer colours for the basic background, similar to that used > in tooltips > * I rounded the corners more > * I use only one type of gradient, two different settings (one for fill, > another for outline) > * I used close icon (and all other icons) from the icon theme I have > currently set (echo, with fall-back to gnome). > > The wiki page (with SVGs and PNGs) is there: > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Artwork/NodokaTheme/NotifyDRAFT > > Comparison of the current notify and the sketch, as it looks on whole F9 > desktop is there: > http://mso.fedorapeople.org/nodoka/notify/preview/notify-orig.png > http://mso.fedorapeople.org/nodoka/notify/preview/notify.png > > The *-orig-* images, save for the screen shot of whole desktop, are real > screen shots, I used notify-send application to display them, all the > rest is either collage or work from scratch. > > Comments welcome, > > Martin i like it for nodoka but a blue like notify theme could look even better (don't know). The mockup i made wasn't really fitting in with nodoka now that i saw this ^_^ ___ Fedora-art-list mailing list Fedora-art-list@redhat.com http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-art-list
Nodoka Notification Theme [Re: Nodoka suggestions for Fedora 10]
> And i have a nice update on the mockup. > > Changelog > - bottom bar fully adjusted to fit the nodoka theme > - notification balloon content is greadly adjusted with a real world > scenario (asymetric thing not solved yet) > - - Added close image in the balloon > - - added orange bar (nice style and can be any colour) > - - added a image of the updates (64x64 fits nicely there) > - - played with font sized and bold > - added the desktop image to the bottom bar (men that image just > doesn't fit that style) > - Changed the bottom bar buttons > - - Made them a bit lighter > - - Made the effects a little more "glowy/glossy" > > And you can see the changes in the image here: > http://img245.imageshack.us/img245/3089/fedora10mockupv02nf6.png > > To me it looks really nice now! Hope you think the same. > Sorry for the really late answer, but I've not managed to get some spare time to take a closer look at it up until now. I'll focus only on the notification part (for now). First about your sketch. What I like: * Rounded corners, might be even more rounded * Soft gradients What I don't like * Stripe padded * Usage of not very fitting, IMHO, type of gradient in the stripe * "Inner outline" * Close button hardly visible, cursive-like * Padding too small for text Now why I waited with the answer so long. I've set up a wiki page for tracking the progress (both art and coding) of the notification theme and put my design on that as well. It's based of yours, yet it's different a lot. * I used warmer colours for the basic background, similar to that used in tooltips * I rounded the corners more * I use only one type of gradient, two different settings (one for fill, another for outline) * I used close icon (and all other icons) from the icon theme I have currently set (echo, with fall-back to gnome). The wiki page (with SVGs and PNGs) is there: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Artwork/NodokaTheme/NotifyDRAFT Comparison of the current notify and the sketch, as it looks on whole F9 desktop is there: http://mso.fedorapeople.org/nodoka/notify/preview/notify-orig.png http://mso.fedorapeople.org/nodoka/notify/preview/notify.png The *-orig-* images, save for the screen shot of whole desktop, are real screen shots, I used notify-send application to display them, all the rest is either collage or work from scratch. Comments welcome, Martin signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part ___ Fedora-art-list mailing list Fedora-art-list@redhat.com http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-art-list
Re: 3D Art was Re: Nodoka suggestions for Fedora 10
On Tue, 2008-04-08 at 17:03 +, María Leandro wrote: > cool... I'm making something like that but in inkscape. Let's see what > came up with. > Excellent Frank signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part ___ Fedora-art-list mailing list Fedora-art-list@redhat.com http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-art-list
Re: 3D Art was Re: Nodoka suggestions for Fedora 10
On Mon, 2008-04-07 at 17:40 -0400, Máirín Duffy wrote: > Frank Murphy wrote: > > At the moment, have not come across any f\oss, > > quadrupeds. So modelling is required. > > Anatomically correct horse, would take time. > > Trees another problem. > > > > But I do agree 3d is nice -eye-candy, > > maybe for an extras package. > > > > And I will personally start using Blender to that aim. > > In the interim 3d should maybe be kept light (time-wise). > > There are quite a few free models for Blender out there. Mancandy is one > notable one: > http://www.blendernation.com/2007/10/18/mancandy-officially-released/ Anatomically correct, not > More here: > > http://e2-productions.com/repository/index.php > > If you google around you will find lots. > As above no quods Frank signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part ___ Fedora-art-list mailing list Fedora-art-list@redhat.com http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-art-list
Re: 3D Art was Re: Nodoka suggestions for Fedora 10
Frank Murphy wrote: On Tue, 2008-04-08 at 16:08 +, María Leandro wrote: I would love to see some more eyecandy in this next release of Fedora, something more graphicall. i think either on version 6 or 7 we had something like that. What do you thing of something like this: http://www.3d-fantasyart.net/fantasy/secret_valley.jpg That picture would have been made with Bryce, and possible Poser\Daz|studio for the "Horses". Trees probably from Bryce tree lab or imported from X-Frog. Nice background material, and time consuming to create, using repo apps. But give me the time. Using closed, you could have it in an hour or two. But that is not the road to take. At the moment, have not come across any f\oss, quadrupeds. So modelling is required. Anatomically correct horse, would take time. Trees another problem. But I do agree 3d is nice -eye-candy, maybe for an extras package. And I will personally start using Blender to that aim. In the interim 3d should maybe be kept light (time-wise). There are quite a few free models for Blender out there. Mancandy is one notable one: http://www.blendernation.com/2007/10/18/mancandy-officially-released/ More here: http://e2-productions.com/repository/index.php If you google around you will find lots. ~m ___ Fedora-art-list mailing list Fedora-art-list@redhat.com http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-art-list
Re: 3D Art was Re: Nodoka suggestions for Fedora 10
cool... I'm making something like that but in inkscape. Let's see what came up with. See ya! 2008/4/8, Frank Murphy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > > > On Tue, 2008-04-08 at 16:08 +, María Leandro wrote: > > I would love to see some more eyecandy in this next release of Fedora, > > something more graphicall. i think either on version 6 or 7 we had > > something like that. > > > > What do you thing of something like this: > > > > http://www.3d-fantasyart.net/fantasy/secret_valley.jpg > > > > > That picture would have been made with Bryce, > and possible Poser\Daz|studio for the "Horses". > Trees probably from Bryce tree lab or imported from X-Frog. > > > Nice background material, and time consuming to create, > using repo apps. But give me the time. > > Using closed, you could have it in an hour or two. > But that is not the road to take. > At the moment, have not come across any f\oss, > quadrupeds. So modelling is required. > Anatomically correct horse, would take time. > Trees another problem. > > But I do agree 3d is nice -eye-candy, > maybe for an extras package. > > And I will personally start using Blender to that aim. > In the interim 3d should maybe be kept light (time-wise). > > > Frank > > ___ > Fedora-art-list mailing list > Fedora-art-list@redhat.com > http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-art-list > > > -- tatica Maria Gracia Leandro http://www.tatica.org http://www.iseit.net http://www.latinux.org http://www.fedora-ve.org http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/MariaLeandro LinuxUser= 440285 GPG Public Key: E1CDCC56 "Be yourself... Don't be anyone else" ___ Fedora-art-list mailing list Fedora-art-list@redhat.com http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-art-list
3D Art was Re: Nodoka suggestions for Fedora 10
On Tue, 2008-04-08 at 16:08 +, María Leandro wrote: > I would love to see some more eyecandy in this next release of Fedora, > something more graphicall. i think either on version 6 or 7 we had > something like that. > > What do you thing of something like this: > > http://www.3d-fantasyart.net/fantasy/secret_valley.jpg > > That picture would have been made with Bryce, and possible Poser\Daz|studio for the "Horses". Trees probably from Bryce tree lab or imported from X-Frog. Nice background material, and time consuming to create, using repo apps. But give me the time. Using closed, you could have it in an hour or two. But that is not the road to take. At the moment, have not come across any f\oss, quadrupeds. So modelling is required. Anatomically correct horse, would take time. Trees another problem. But I do agree 3d is nice -eye-candy, maybe for an extras package. And I will personally start using Blender to that aim. In the interim 3d should maybe be kept light (time-wise). Frank signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part ___ Fedora-art-list mailing list Fedora-art-list@redhat.com http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-art-list
Re: Nodoka suggestions for Fedora 10
I would love to see some more eyecandy in this next release of Fedora, something more graphicall. i think either on version 6 or 7 we had something like that. What do you thing of something like this: http://www.3d-fantasyart.net/fantasy/secret_valley.jpg 2008/4/8, Martin Sourada <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > > On Mon, 2008-04-07 at 17:01 +0200, Mark wrote: > > 2008/4/4, Jakub 'Livio' Rusinek <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > > > I'm getting very little responses here to improve my mockup. > > is there just no interest for it? does fedora even want me to put time > in this? > > > > So... i want to improve it further (assuming that's needed) so give > > the mockup some critics so that i can improve it! > > > > the motivation to continue with this isn't really high.. i need > > feedback on this one! > > And if i post it to the devel list i probably only get notices again > > that it belongs here (where not a lot of people reply). > > > > > There's a lot of conversation going on in the art list lately, and most > of us is focusing on the F9 artwork, so it's natural that you've got not > much of a feedback. Besides, it DOES matter what YOU'd like to do. It's > not that we don't care, but sometimes it isn't easy to come up with > specific critics (especially if it's "only" mockups). > > I'll make sure I won't forget this thread and reply to you in this > matter fully when I think it through more deeply, but right now I am > focusing on getting the nodoka gtk engine 0.7.0 release done in time, so > please be a little more patient. > > The best I could suggest you though right now is this: make a wiki page > dedicated to the Notify design, and make a single thread clearly stating > that it's only about the notification-daemon design. You'll need to > gather some info, how can we do that (meaning the real theme) and even > if you would be not able to do it yourself, it would help us to put all > the info on the wiki. > > As for the design itself: when the real code is being done, there is > still a plenty of room for improvement based on the usage experience, so > do not feel obliged to come up with an awesome design from the start. > > And once again, I plan to make some sketches, based on your design, as > well and will comment on the notify design when I am done with them :) > > Thanks, > Martin > > PS: And remember that most of us, like you, are doing these things in > our spare time, so if there isn't enough of that, we do not reply much > to the stuff, or to everything, what goes on here, so do not feel > disappointed by the lack of as much critics as you might like ;-) > > ___ > Fedora-art-list mailing list > Fedora-art-list@redhat.com > http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-art-list > > > -- tatica Maria Gracia Leandro http://www.tatica.org http://www.iseit.net http://www.latinux.org http://www.fedora-ve.org http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/MariaLeandro LinuxUser= 440285 GPG Public Key: E1CDCC56 "Be yourself... Don't be anyone else" ___ Fedora-art-list mailing list Fedora-art-list@redhat.com http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-art-list
Re: Nodoka suggestions for Fedora 10
On Mon, 2008-04-07 at 17:01 +0200, Mark wrote: > 2008/4/4, Jakub 'Livio' Rusinek <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > I'm getting very little responses here to improve my mockup. > is there just no interest for it? does fedora even want me to put time in > this? > > So... i want to improve it further (assuming that's needed) so give > the mockup some critics so that i can improve it! > > the motivation to continue with this isn't really high.. i need > feedback on this one! > And if i post it to the devel list i probably only get notices again > that it belongs here (where not a lot of people reply). > There's a lot of conversation going on in the art list lately, and most of us is focusing on the F9 artwork, so it's natural that you've got not much of a feedback. Besides, it DOES matter what YOU'd like to do. It's not that we don't care, but sometimes it isn't easy to come up with specific critics (especially if it's "only" mockups). I'll make sure I won't forget this thread and reply to you in this matter fully when I think it through more deeply, but right now I am focusing on getting the nodoka gtk engine 0.7.0 release done in time, so please be a little more patient. The best I could suggest you though right now is this: make a wiki page dedicated to the Notify design, and make a single thread clearly stating that it's only about the notification-daemon design. You'll need to gather some info, how can we do that (meaning the real theme) and even if you would be not able to do it yourself, it would help us to put all the info on the wiki. As for the design itself: when the real code is being done, there is still a plenty of room for improvement based on the usage experience, so do not feel obliged to come up with an awesome design from the start. And once again, I plan to make some sketches, based on your design, as well and will comment on the notify design when I am done with them :) Thanks, Martin PS: And remember that most of us, like you, are doing these things in our spare time, so if there isn't enough of that, we do not reply much to the stuff, or to everything, what goes on here, so do not feel disappointed by the lack of as much critics as you might like ;-) signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part ___ Fedora-art-list mailing list Fedora-art-list@redhat.com http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-art-list
Re: Nodoka suggestions for Fedora 10
2008/4/4, Jakub 'Livio' Rusinek <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > > Not fast is not an option. Either working fast (and stable) or it is not > > acceptable as default. Also, AFAIK, whether the compositing is turned on > > or not depends on window manager (in our case metacity), not gtk or even > > theme engine. > > > Nah... Not true. You can use xcompmgr ;) . I'm getting very little responses here to improve my mockup. is there just no interest for it? does fedora even want me to put time in this? So... i want to improve it further (assuming that's needed) so give the mockup some critics so that i can improve it! the motivation to continue with this isn't really high.. i need feedback on this one! And if i post it to the devel list i probably only get notices again that it belongs here (where not a lot of people reply). ___ Fedora-art-list mailing list Fedora-art-list@redhat.com http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-art-list
Re: Nodoka suggestions for Fedora 10
> Not fast is not an option. Either working fast (and stable) or it is not > acceptable as default. Also, AFAIK, whether the compositing is turned on > or not depends on window manager (in our case metacity), not gtk or even > theme engine. Nah... Not true. You can use xcompmgr ;) . -- Jakub 'Livio' Rusinek http://liviopl.jogger.pl/ signature.asc Description: To jest część wiadomości podpisana cyfrowo ___ Fedora-art-list mailing list Fedora-art-list@redhat.com http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-art-list
Re: Nodoka suggestions for Fedora 10
> Looks really nice, Mark! Shouldn't the notification balloon "emerge" from > its icon in the notification area? (i.e upper panel) > you're right on that one but then i have to change the direction of that arrow like thing... bla bla bla you get the idea with this image as well ^_^ ___ Fedora-art-list mailing list Fedora-art-list@redhat.com http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-art-list
Re: Nodoka suggestions for Fedora 10
Martin Sourada escribió: On Wed, 2008-04-02 at 21:10 +0200, Mark wrote: Hey, i'm having some suggestions for nodoka in the next fedora version. My general idea for fedora is to have the themes polished in F10. Nodoka can do a lot to get that done. Oke for the first one. When you hover a button or anything that's nodoka controlled like the buttons: minimize, maximize and close. When you put your mouse on one of them the image behind it is instantly changing to the hover state (or something like it). My suggestion would be to make a effect of it. Fade out the old one and simultaneously fade in the new image so that you get some nice effects there. Also do this for every other thing that has another state when it's selected, hovered etc. AFAIK, metacity does not support it. Correct me if I'm wrong. It would possible to make these effects of these using Compiz' wm but I have no experience in this area and also compositing isn't currently working almost nowhere in rawhide (you know, intel is broken a little, and nvidia does not support the new Xorg yet). As far as I know composite can work with 2D only drivers like VESA. IIRC xcompmgr wasn't particularly slow (though very unstable). I'm not familiar with the implementation of the Composite extension of Metacity, or what effects are possible with it. I however am more familiar with the implementation of XFWM4, and it is lightweight enough to be used with 2D only drivers such as 2D-only radeon drivers on R500 hardware (or radeonhd drivers) as well as VESA, with very decent a performance. But this isn't a discussion for the art-list, but for -devel and maybe Desktop. Just wanted to point out that you can have composite enabled by default with 2D-only drivers and have good performance. ___ Fedora-art-list mailing list Fedora-art-list@redhat.com http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-art-list
Re: Nodoka suggestions for Fedora 10
Mark escribió: And i have a nice update on the mockup. Changelog - bottom bar fully adjusted to fit the nodoka theme - notification balloon content is greadly adjusted with a real world scenario (asymetric thing not solved yet) - - Added close image in the balloon - - added orange bar (nice style and can be any colour) - - added a image of the updates (64x64 fits nicely there) - - played with font sized and bold - added the desktop image to the bottom bar (men that image just doesn't fit that style) - Changed the bottom bar buttons - - Made them a bit lighter - - Made the effects a little more "glowy/glossy" And you can see the changes in the image here: http://img245.imageshack.us/img245/3089/fedora10mockupv02nf6.png To me it looks really nice now! Hope you think the same. ___ Fedora-art-list mailing list Fedora-art-list@redhat.com http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-art-list Looks really nice, Mark! Shouldn't the notification balloon "emerge" from its icon in the notification area? (i.e upper panel) ___ Fedora-art-list mailing list Fedora-art-list@redhat.com http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-art-list
Re: Nodoka suggestions for Fedora 10
Nicu Buculei escribió: Mark wrote: I left out the round timer thing on purpose because i think those "balloons" should just vanish after a few (3 to 5) seconds. adding in a timer is nice but not needed and makes it look strange. They only need to go when the user isn't doing anything on the balloon, like holding the mouse on it, everything else == vanishing balloon. While I am still in "steampunk" mode: how about some rotating gears as the timer, if we go with "Gears" [1] ? Or an ancient looking hourglass. [1] - http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Artwork/F10Themes/Gears Those images look very nice, Nicu!! "Clockwork Fedora"? (pun intended to the emblematic movie of the 70's Clockwork Orange) ___ Fedora-art-list mailing list Fedora-art-list@redhat.com http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-art-list
Re: Nodoka suggestions for Fedora 10
> Changelog > - bottom bar fully adjusted to fit the nodoka theme > - notification balloon content is greadly adjusted with a real world > scenario (asymetric thing not solved yet) > - - Added close image in the balloon > - - added orange bar (nice style and can be any colour) > - - added a image of the updates (64x64 fits nicely there) > - - played with font sized and bold > - added the desktop image to the bottom bar (men that image just > doesn't fit that style) > - Changed the bottom bar buttons > - - Made them a bit lighter > - - Made the effects a little more "glowy/glossy" > Forgot to add: in the balloon the text and the update image is at 100% visible the rest of the balloon is at 90% And this seems to fit really nice. ___ Fedora-art-list mailing list Fedora-art-list@redhat.com http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-art-list
Re: Nodoka suggestions for Fedora 10
2008/4/4, Martin Sourada <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > On Fri, 2008-04-04 at 15:33 +0200, Mark wrote: > > > You're right and wrong here. > > > > Right: > > - Compositing with Ati or Nvidia (anything except intel) isn't working > > > > It isn't working on intel either (in rawhide). Compiz freezes ui, > metacity with compositing turned on breaks many things. I don't know any > other compositing capable managers that work with gnome. > O that.. last time i tried it it seemed to work.. had some issues, yes but didn't crash. > > > Wrong: > > - the statement that compositing isn't working. > > > > Did you knew that KDE 4 uses the xorg composite extension? that means > > that compositing works on vesa as well! not fast but working. So > > compositing _can_ work if the creators of the notification deamon (and > > nodoka, you) invest some time to get it in then compositing is always > > working! which (to me) is worth the time.. but then again i'm not the > > person who is gonna break his head in implementing it. I will send in > > a bug report (RFE) for the notification-deamon. > > > > Not fast is not an option. Either working fast (and stable) or it is not > acceptable as default. Also, AFAIK, whether the compositing is turned on > or not depends on window manager (in our case metacity), not gtk or even > theme engine. > Ehm.. that "not fast" is on VESA only. and the current fedora rawhide only works with vesa unless you have an open and supported driver (intel). When you have fast hardware rendering support (aka a working driver) than that XComposite suddenly becomes fast. If KDE can use it for there awsome desktop (not using it btw because it feels buggy) than it certainly is good enough for gnome. I suggest you take a look at KDE 4. > > > > > > > Would be good if you sketched a real-world notification like Package > > > blahblah has been updated, or You have new message in your Inbox with > > > icon, buttons, timer and left stripe included to see how the final > > > design would look like. > > > > I can make that. However i probably won't include that timer thing > > because i'm still making this with the assumption that the balloon > > vanishes after 3 till 5 seconds so i see no point in making it visible > > how long you have till the balloon vanishes. and for that left > > stripe.. i will see how i make that fit in. > > > > Not all balloons are here for only 5 seconds. It's not unusual to have > it on for about 15 or more seconds. > Yea i noticed with some balloons... and that's a irritating issue. A balloon should: 1. Say what it has to say 2. Show it the user for a few seconds 3. than get out of there asap! > > Martin > And i have a nice update on the mockup. Changelog - bottom bar fully adjusted to fit the nodoka theme - notification balloon content is greadly adjusted with a real world scenario (asymetric thing not solved yet) - - Added close image in the balloon - - added orange bar (nice style and can be any colour) - - added a image of the updates (64x64 fits nicely there) - - played with font sized and bold - added the desktop image to the bottom bar (men that image just doesn't fit that style) - Changed the bottom bar buttons - - Made them a bit lighter - - Made the effects a little more "glowy/glossy" And you can see the changes in the image here: http://img245.imageshack.us/img245/3089/fedora10mockupv02nf6.png To me it looks really nice now! Hope you think the same. ___ Fedora-art-list mailing list Fedora-art-list@redhat.com http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-art-list
Re: Nodoka suggestions for Fedora 10
On Fri, 2008-04-04 at 15:33 +0200, Mark wrote: > You're right and wrong here. > > Right: > - Compositing with Ati or Nvidia (anything except intel) isn't working > It isn't working on intel either (in rawhide). Compiz freezes ui, metacity with compositing turned on breaks many things. I don't know any other compositing capable managers that work with gnome. > Wrong: > - the statement that compositing isn't working. > > Did you knew that KDE 4 uses the xorg composite extension? that means > that compositing works on vesa as well! not fast but working. So > compositing _can_ work if the creators of the notification deamon (and > nodoka, you) invest some time to get it in then compositing is always > working! which (to me) is worth the time.. but then again i'm not the > person who is gonna break his head in implementing it. I will send in > a bug report (RFE) for the notification-deamon. > Not fast is not an option. Either working fast (and stable) or it is not acceptable as default. Also, AFAIK, whether the compositing is turned on or not depends on window manager (in our case metacity), not gtk or even theme engine. > > > > Would be good if you sketched a real-world notification like Package > > blahblah has been updated, or You have new message in your Inbox with > > icon, buttons, timer and left stripe included to see how the final > > design would look like. > > I can make that. However i probably won't include that timer thing > because i'm still making this with the assumption that the balloon > vanishes after 3 till 5 seconds so i see no point in making it visible > how long you have till the balloon vanishes. and for that left > stripe.. i will see how i make that fit in. > Not all balloons are here for only 5 seconds. It's not unusual to have it on for about 15 or more seconds. Martin ___ Fedora-art-list mailing list Fedora-art-list@redhat.com http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-art-list
Re: Nodoka suggestions for Fedora 10
2008/4/4, Martin Sourada <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > On Thu, 2008-04-03 at 20:08 +0200, Mark wrote: > > Oke i made a mockup on the ones i intended to make. > > I've only made the bottom bar and the tooltip + a suggestion on the > animation. > > > > Here it is: > > http://img391.imageshack.us/img391/6213/fedora10mockupdi2.png > > > > Critics? Comments? > > and most importand: is this possible in the current fedora? (bottom > > bar is but the tooltip?) > > > > > Transparency does not work without compositing which is still broken... > As for the desing... The panel is too dark and does not fit the bright > Nodoka theme we use as default. Also uses glossy look, which is > inconsistent with nodoka. The toolip looks nice, might use more > roundness in the corners, personally I'd use same as is set for the GTK > widgets. The gradient could be used more consistently with Nodoka but > the way it is now is OK. I'd perhaps make the "bubble-connector" > asymmetric the current one looks a little strange. You're right and wrong here. Right: - Compositing with Ati or Nvidia (anything except intel) isn't working Wrong: - the statement that compositing isn't working. Did you knew that KDE 4 uses the xorg composite extension? that means that compositing works on vesa as well! not fast but working. So compositing _can_ work if the creators of the notification deamon (and nodoka, you) invest some time to get it in then compositing is always working! which (to me) is worth the time.. but then again i'm not the person who is gonna break his head in implementing it. I will send in a bug report (RFE) for the notification-deamon. > > Would be good if you sketched a real-world notification like Package > blahblah has been updated, or You have new message in your Inbox with > icon, buttons, timer and left stripe included to see how the final > design would look like. I can make that. However i probably won't include that timer thing because i'm still making this with the assumption that the balloon vanishes after 3 till 5 seconds so i see no point in making it visible how long you have till the balloon vanishes. and for that left stripe.. i will see how i make that fit in. > > > Martin 2008/4/4, Nicu Buculei <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > Mark wrote: > > > > > I left out the round timer thing on purpose because i think those > > "balloons" should just vanish after a few (3 to 5) seconds. adding in > > a timer is nice but not needed and makes it look strange. They only > > need to go when the user isn't doing anything on the balloon, like > > holding the mouse on it, everything else == vanishing balloon. > > > > While I am still in "steampunk" mode: how about some rotating gears as the > timer, if we go with "Gears" [1] ? Or an ancient looking hourglass. > I will probably leave the timer out till you/martin/anyone else convinced me of the use of that timer. It's a nice idea but i simply don't see it's advantage. > > [1] - > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Artwork/F10Themes/Gears > Expect a new mockup here somewhere later today. ___ Fedora-art-list mailing list Fedora-art-list@redhat.com http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-art-list
Re: Nodoka suggestions for Fedora 10
Mark wrote: I left out the round timer thing on purpose because i think those "balloons" should just vanish after a few (3 to 5) seconds. adding in a timer is nice but not needed and makes it look strange. They only need to go when the user isn't doing anything on the balloon, like holding the mouse on it, everything else == vanishing balloon. While I am still in "steampunk" mode: how about some rotating gears as the timer, if we go with "Gears" [1] ? Or an ancient looking hourglass. [1] - http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Artwork/F10Themes/Gears -- nicu :: http://nicubunu.ro :: http://nicubunu.blogspot.com Cool Fedora wallpapers: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro/wallpapers/ Open Clip Art Library: http://www.openclipart.org my Fedora stuff: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro ___ Fedora-art-list mailing list Fedora-art-list@redhat.com http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-art-list
Re: Nodoka suggestions for Fedora 10
On Thu, 2008-04-03 at 20:08 +0200, Mark wrote: > Oke i made a mockup on the ones i intended to make. > I've only made the bottom bar and the tooltip + a suggestion on the animation. > > Here it is: > http://img391.imageshack.us/img391/6213/fedora10mockupdi2.png > > Critics? Comments? > and most importand: is this possible in the current fedora? (bottom > bar is but the tooltip?) > Transparency does not work without compositing which is still broken... As for the desing... The panel is too dark and does not fit the bright Nodoka theme we use as default. Also uses glossy look, which is inconsistent with nodoka. The toolip looks nice, might use more roundness in the corners, personally I'd use same as is set for the GTK widgets. The gradient could be used more consistently with Nodoka but the way it is now is OK. I'd perhaps make the "bubble-connector" asymmetric the current one looks a little strange. Would be good if you sketched a real-world notification like Package blahblah has been updated, or You have new message in your Inbox with icon, buttons, timer and left stripe included to see how the final design would look like. Martin ___ Fedora-art-list mailing list Fedora-art-list@redhat.com http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-art-list
Re: Nodoka suggestions for Fedora 10
On Wed, 2008-04-02 at 18:01 -0600, Gian Paolo Mureddu wrote: > the new elements in their place. For example, I like to have the close > and minimize buttons together at the upper left corner of the window, > and the menu and maximize buttons on the right corner. The problem with > the current implementation of the theme is that it "locks" the buttons > to the right corner of the window and even though all effects are > "inherited" when they are changed, the "highlight" around the buttons > persists and is locked to the buttons on the right hand corner[1]. Maybe > the first step would be to lock the highlight border to the properties > of the buttons instead of a location in the title bar? (is this even > possible in GTK? [or any other toolkit for that matter?]) > It's Metacity not GTK we're talking about here. In rawhide this behaviour is already fixed. See https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=384031 > > The second one is something i've requested before but never got in. > > Theme the taskbar! fully theme it, not just change the colour but > > really give it a theme. As far as i know this has never been done in > > fedora. I will try to make a mockup of it sometime soon. > > > > This sounds VERY interesting indeed... It also opens all sorts of > possibilities for themes... Like having both the lower and upper panes > have different colors/combinations/highlights, etc. Make launcher icons > stand out as buttons, give a glossy look (or not), etc. And have the > lower panel (with the "Show Desktop", "Window List" "Recycle Bin" and > "Desktop Pager" applets) a completely different, but complementary look > than that of the upper panel. Have the Window List applet have its own > properties so that (as some people do) if a user deletes one of the > panels (to reclaim desktop pace, for instance) and moves the Window List > to "the other" panel, these properties are retained and what not. > Launcher icons stand out the same way as icons and will remain this way. Don't overdo things... Some of these suggestions are also rather fit for desktop list than for art list (as we care about desing and they care about default desktop settings). Martin ___ Fedora-art-list mailing list Fedora-art-list@redhat.com http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-art-list
Re: Nodoka suggestions for Fedora 10
On Wed, 2008-04-02 at 21:10 +0200, Mark wrote: > Hey, > > i'm having some suggestions for nodoka in the next fedora version. > My general idea for fedora is to have the themes polished in F10. > Nodoka can do a lot to get that done. > > Oke for the first one. > When you hover a button or anything that's nodoka controlled like the > buttons: minimize, maximize and close. When you put your mouse on one > of them the image behind it is instantly changing to the hover state > (or something like it). My suggestion would be to make a effect of it. > Fade out the old one and simultaneously fade in the new image so that > you get some nice effects there. Also do this for every other thing > that has another state when it's selected, hovered etc. > AFAIK, metacity does not support it. Correct me if I'm wrong. It would possible to make these effects of these using Compiz' wm but I have no experience in this area and also compositing isn't currently working almost nowhere in rawhide (you know, intel is broken a little, and nvidia does not support the new Xorg yet). > The second one is something i've requested before but never got in. > Theme the taskbar! fully theme it, not just change the colour but > really give it a theme. As far as i know this has never been done in > fedora. I will try to make a mockup of it sometime soon. > I've replied on this one to you privately, but for others here's what I think: it's not as easy said as done. Mostly because there are applets supposed to be on panel, as well as notification area. Many of these are still 'broken' and display wrong if you use them on panel with different background than just filled with one colour (non-transparent). Martin ___ Fedora-art-list mailing list Fedora-art-list@redhat.com http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-art-list
Re: Nodoka suggestions for Fedora 10
2008/4/4, Nicu Buculei <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > Mark wrote: > > > Oke i made a mockup on the ones i intended to make. > > I've only made the bottom bar and the tooltip + a suggestion on the > animation. > > > > Here it is: > > > http://img391.imageshack.us/img391/6213/fedora10mockupdi2.png > > > > But this is not how the balloons will look in the end, right? They will not > be that plain, will have an icon and a close button. > And probably the text should be padded a bit, not so close to the borders. Your right! I forgot the close button but just didn't include the image in. As for the padding.. i think it should stay that "close" on the top.. the left is obviously gonna be moved about 100 pixels or so to make place for the image. I will see what i can do with it in the next mockup. I left out the round timer thing on purpose because i think those "balloons" should just vanish after a few (3 to 5) seconds. adding in a timer is nice but not needed and makes it look strange. They only need to go when the user isn't doing anything on the balloon, like holding the mouse on it, everything else == vanishing balloon. 2008/4/3, Jakub 'Livio' Rusinek <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > Dnia 2008-04-03, czw o godzinie 20:08 +0200, Mark pisze: > > The "tooltip" is drawn by notification-daemon. You can easily create a > theme and include it. Then you need to edit notification-daemon's gconf > schemes to use that theme by default. Ubuntu did this. They include > yellow bubble. > o it's EASY.. than you sure don't mind making a start for me :) If you can't do it then don say it's easy. As far as i know it (when i last looked at it) it was not a gtkrc file that you edit.. it was actually changing the source theme files to suit your needs. those are written in C and i don't know that yet! And even if i did then i still need to know how to work with GTK. Anyone that's willing to make a start with this.. go ahead! ___ Fedora-art-list mailing list Fedora-art-list@redhat.com http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-art-list
Re: Nodoka suggestions for Fedora 10
Mark wrote: Oke i made a mockup on the ones i intended to make. I've only made the bottom bar and the tooltip + a suggestion on the animation. Here it is: http://img391.imageshack.us/img391/6213/fedora10mockupdi2.png But this is not how the balloons will look in the end, right? They will not be that plain, will have an icon and a close button. And probably the text should be padded a bit, not so close to the borders. -- nicu :: http://nicubunu.ro :: http://nicubunu.blogspot.com Cool Fedora wallpapers: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro/wallpapers/ Open Clip Art Library: http://www.openclipart.org my Fedora stuff: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro ___ Fedora-art-list mailing list Fedora-art-list@redhat.com http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-art-list
Re: Nodoka suggestions for Fedora 10
Dnia 2008-04-03, czw o godzinie 20:08 +0200, Mark pisze: > Oke i made a mockup on the ones i intended to make. > I've only made the bottom bar and the tooltip + a suggestion on the animation. > > Here it is: > http://img391.imageshack.us/img391/6213/fedora10mockupdi2.png > > Critics? Comments? > and most importand: is this possible in the current fedora? (bottom > bar is but the tooltip?) The "tooltip" is drawn by notification-daemon. You can easily create a theme and include it. Then you need to edit notification-daemon's gconf schemes to use that theme by default. Ubuntu did this. They include yellow bubble. -- Jakub 'Livio' Rusinek http://liviopl.jogger.pl/ signature.asc Description: To jest część wiadomości podpisana cyfrowo ___ Fedora-art-list mailing list Fedora-art-list@redhat.com http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-art-list
Re: Nodoka suggestions for Fedora 10
2008/4/3, Gian Paolo Mureddu <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > Wow... No that I look at your mockups the look on the F7 notification > balloons reminded me of FC5-6 look. Nice, though. The ones for F9 look also > very nice, and the important thing: the panel style for the taskbar panel > looks really nice, now I'd wonder how would it look if the upper panel had > also the same style (the main problem would be the menu bar inheriting the > same style for consistency look. For the buttons I thought of something like > the mouse-over hover effect you have in the taksbar buttons (for > consistency's sake), in another (but consistent) color, if like. Now how to > make this play nice with Nodoka? So that it all looks consistent? A ton of questions.. I can answer the few that i know. "how would it look if the upper panel had also the same style" Well.. it would look good IF made good :) perhaps the reversed gradient of the one that you see at the bottom. "For the buttons" Well.. i will have to play with some colors there. It can't use the hover things that you see on the buttons in the bottom because the would look ugly. Perhaps a little in the style of KDE 4? "Now how to make this play nice with Nodoka?" don't know. Martin/Luya/Mo/anyone of the art team maybe? "So that it all looks consistent?" That's the most difficult part in a theme.. making the total image look good and not leave you with a feeling that something isn't right. Hope that answers it (mostly). ___ Fedora-art-list mailing list Fedora-art-list@redhat.com http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-art-list
Re: Nodoka suggestions for Fedora 10
Wow... No that I look at your mockups the look on the F7 notification balloons reminded me of FC5-6 look. Nice, though. The ones for F9 look also very nice, and the important thing: the panel style for the taskbar panel looks really nice, now I'd wonder how would it look if the upper panel had also the same style (the main problem would be the menu bar inheriting the same style for consistency look. For the buttons I thought of something like the mouse-over hover effect you have in the taksbar buttons (for consistency's sake), in another (but consistent) color, if like. Now how to make this play nice with Nodoka? So that it all looks consistent? ___ Fedora-art-list mailing list Fedora-art-list@redhat.com http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-art-list
Re: Nodoka suggestions for Fedora 10
Oke i made a mockup on the ones i intended to make. I've only made the bottom bar and the tooltip + a suggestion on the animation. Here it is: http://img391.imageshack.us/img391/6213/fedora10mockupdi2.png Critics? Comments? and most importand: is this possible in the current fedora? (bottom bar is but the tooltip?) ___ Fedora-art-list mailing list Fedora-art-list@redhat.com http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-art-list
Re: Nodoka suggestions for Fedora 10
2008/4/3, Mark <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > 2008/4/3, Gian Paolo Mureddu <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > > > Mark escribió: > > > > > Hey, > > > > > > i'm having some suggestions for nodoka in the next fedora version. > > > My general idea for fedora is to have the themes polished in F10. > > > Nodoka can do a lot to get that done. > > > > > > Oke for the first one. > > > When you hover a button or anything that's nodoka controlled like the > > > buttons: minimize, maximize and close. When you put your mouse on one > > > of them the image behind it is instantly changing to the hover state > > > (or something like it). My suggestion would be to make a effect of it. > > > Fade out the old one and simultaneously fade in the new image so that > > > you get some nice effects there. Also do this for every other thing > > > that has another state when it's selected, hovered etc. > > > > > > > > > > That is very interesting. One thing I've noticed, though, and since > > Metacity allows for that, is that if you change the order of the buttons > > (using gconf-editor), the properties of the buttons will be inherited by > the > > new elements in their place. For example, I like to have the close and > > minimize buttons together at the upper left corner of the window, and the > > menu and maximize buttons on the right corner. The problem with the current > > implementation of the theme is that it "locks" the buttons to the right > > corner of the window and even though all effects are "inherited" when they > > are changed, the "highlight" around the buttons persists and is locked to > > the buttons on the right hand corner[1]. Maybe the first step would be to > > lock the highlight border to the properties of the buttons instead of a > > location in the title bar? (is this even possible in GTK? [or any other > > toolkit for that matter?]) > > > > > > > The second one is something i've requested before but never got in. > > > Theme the taskbar! fully theme it, not just change the colour but > > > really give it a theme. As far as i know this has never been done in > > > fedora. I will try to make a mockup of it sometime soon. > > > > > > > > > > This sounds VERY interesting indeed... It also opens all sorts of > > possibilities for themes... Like having both the lower and upper panes have > > different colors/combinations/highlights, etc. Make launcher icons stand > out > > as buttons, give a glossy look (or not), etc. And have the lower panel > (with > > the "Show Desktop", "Window List" "Recycle Bin" and "Desktop Pager" > applets) > > a completely different, but complementary look than that of the upper > panel. > > Have the Window List applet have its own properties so that (as some people > > do) if a user deletes one of the panels (to reclaim desktop pace, for > > instance) and moves the Window List to "the other" panel, these properties > > are retained and what not. > > > > I hope that by "glossy look" of the launcher buttons you don't mean to > have them with another background than the panel background! that > would not have my preference to say the least. But having it glossy > when hovering (like in vista/xp) is a nice idea to have! > > > > > > Third. > > > A while back i made a mockup of a themed notification message. the > > > current one looks kinda plain. The one i had made was one you all > > > seemed to like one way or the other but never got implemented. I will > > > try to find that mockup and post it again to see if this could find > > > it's way in Fedora 10. > > > > > > > > > > I don't remember seeing this one, and I would very much like to see it! > > > Look here later this day in probably about 4 hours. Found it back in the archives (MageFedoraTheme) this one gives a nice impression on what i thought at that time would look nice for notification balloons. http://img359.imageshack.us/img359/1475/kdebattlewip7ke4.png But NOW.. no. that's not really what i would like to see now in fedora.. now i would go for smaller color changes and probably less rounded (rounded but just a few pixels).. i can do it so much better now.. stay tuned for updates on this with the taskbar + the tooltips ___ Fedora-art-list mailing list Fedora-art-list@redhat.com http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-art-list
Re: Nodoka suggestions for Fedora 10
2008/4/3, Gian Paolo Mureddu <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > Mark escribió: > > > Hey, > > > > i'm having some suggestions for nodoka in the next fedora version. > > My general idea for fedora is to have the themes polished in F10. > > Nodoka can do a lot to get that done. > > > > Oke for the first one. > > When you hover a button or anything that's nodoka controlled like the > > buttons: minimize, maximize and close. When you put your mouse on one > > of them the image behind it is instantly changing to the hover state > > (or something like it). My suggestion would be to make a effect of it. > > Fade out the old one and simultaneously fade in the new image so that > > you get some nice effects there. Also do this for every other thing > > that has another state when it's selected, hovered etc. > > > > > > That is very interesting. One thing I've noticed, though, and since > Metacity allows for that, is that if you change the order of the buttons > (using gconf-editor), the properties of the buttons will be inherited by the > new elements in their place. For example, I like to have the close and > minimize buttons together at the upper left corner of the window, and the > menu and maximize buttons on the right corner. The problem with the current > implementation of the theme is that it "locks" the buttons to the right > corner of the window and even though all effects are "inherited" when they > are changed, the "highlight" around the buttons persists and is locked to > the buttons on the right hand corner[1]. Maybe the first step would be to > lock the highlight border to the properties of the buttons instead of a > location in the title bar? (is this even possible in GTK? [or any other > toolkit for that matter?]) > > > > The second one is something i've requested before but never got in. > > Theme the taskbar! fully theme it, not just change the colour but > > really give it a theme. As far as i know this has never been done in > > fedora. I will try to make a mockup of it sometime soon. > > > > > > This sounds VERY interesting indeed... It also opens all sorts of > possibilities for themes... Like having both the lower and upper panes have > different colors/combinations/highlights, etc. Make launcher icons stand out > as buttons, give a glossy look (or not), etc. And have the lower panel (with > the "Show Desktop", "Window List" "Recycle Bin" and "Desktop Pager" applets) > a completely different, but complementary look than that of the upper panel. > Have the Window List applet have its own properties so that (as some people > do) if a user deletes one of the panels (to reclaim desktop pace, for > instance) and moves the Window List to "the other" panel, these properties > are retained and what not. > I hope that by "glossy look" of the launcher buttons you don't mean to have them with another background than the panel background! that would not have my preference to say the least. But having it glossy when hovering (like in vista/xp) is a nice idea to have! > > > Third. > > A while back i made a mockup of a themed notification message. the > > current one looks kinda plain. The one i had made was one you all > > seemed to like one way or the other but never got implemented. I will > > try to find that mockup and post it again to see if this could find > > it's way in Fedora 10. > > > > > > I don't remember seeing this one, and I would very much like to see it! Look here later this day in probably about 4 hours. > > > > That's it for this moment. i'm sure i will come with more once i'm > > busy making mockups. > > > > But what is your opinion about those ideas so far and how likely is it > > to get them in Fedora 10? > > > > > > > > PS: I hate it having a sense of "good taste" when it comes to graphics, but > 0 talent whatsoever! I would very much like to help the artwork team, if > only with some feedback (as my drawing and graphics skills in general really > suck) Well.. if you could cut my edits and make them work with gtkrc? if you could do that? > > [1]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v328/thetargos/Desktop/Nodoka-1.png Partly like it.. partly don't. i like the buttons :) > > ___ > Fedora-art-list mailing list > Fedora-art-list@redhat.com > http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-art-list > ___ Fedora-art-list mailing list Fedora-art-list@redhat.com http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-art-list
Re: Nodoka suggestions for Fedora 10
Mark escribió: Hey, i'm having some suggestions for nodoka in the next fedora version. My general idea for fedora is to have the themes polished in F10. Nodoka can do a lot to get that done. Oke for the first one. When you hover a button or anything that's nodoka controlled like the buttons: minimize, maximize and close. When you put your mouse on one of them the image behind it is instantly changing to the hover state (or something like it). My suggestion would be to make a effect of it. Fade out the old one and simultaneously fade in the new image so that you get some nice effects there. Also do this for every other thing that has another state when it's selected, hovered etc. That is very interesting. One thing I've noticed, though, and since Metacity allows for that, is that if you change the order of the buttons (using gconf-editor), the properties of the buttons will be inherited by the new elements in their place. For example, I like to have the close and minimize buttons together at the upper left corner of the window, and the menu and maximize buttons on the right corner. The problem with the current implementation of the theme is that it "locks" the buttons to the right corner of the window and even though all effects are "inherited" when they are changed, the "highlight" around the buttons persists and is locked to the buttons on the right hand corner[1]. Maybe the first step would be to lock the highlight border to the properties of the buttons instead of a location in the title bar? (is this even possible in GTK? [or any other toolkit for that matter?]) The second one is something i've requested before but never got in. Theme the taskbar! fully theme it, not just change the colour but really give it a theme. As far as i know this has never been done in fedora. I will try to make a mockup of it sometime soon. This sounds VERY interesting indeed... It also opens all sorts of possibilities for themes... Like having both the lower and upper panes have different colors/combinations/highlights, etc. Make launcher icons stand out as buttons, give a glossy look (or not), etc. And have the lower panel (with the "Show Desktop", "Window List" "Recycle Bin" and "Desktop Pager" applets) a completely different, but complementary look than that of the upper panel. Have the Window List applet have its own properties so that (as some people do) if a user deletes one of the panels (to reclaim desktop pace, for instance) and moves the Window List to "the other" panel, these properties are retained and what not. Third. A while back i made a mockup of a themed notification message. the current one looks kinda plain. The one i had made was one you all seemed to like one way or the other but never got implemented. I will try to find that mockup and post it again to see if this could find it's way in Fedora 10. I don't remember seeing this one, and I would very much like to see it! That's it for this moment. i'm sure i will come with more once i'm busy making mockups. But what is your opinion about those ideas so far and how likely is it to get them in Fedora 10? PS: I hate it having a sense of "good taste" when it comes to graphics, but 0 talent whatsoever! I would very much like to help the artwork team, if only with some feedback (as my drawing and graphics skills in general really suck) [1]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v328/thetargos/Desktop/Nodoka-1.png ___ Fedora-art-list mailing list Fedora-art-list@redhat.com http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-art-list
