Re: F12: NetworkManager-Firefox: Firefox is currently in offline mode and can't browse the Web
On Mon, 2009-11-30 at 19:52 +, Terry Barnaby wrote: > On 11/30/2009 06:12 PM, Dan Williams wrote: > > On Mon, 2009-11-30 at 09:55 +, Terry Barnaby wrote: > >> On 11/29/2009 11:30 PM, Dan Williams wrote: > >>> On Sat, 2009-11-28 at 09:10 +, Terry Barnaby wrote: > On 11/28/2009 08:35 AM, Rakesh Pandit wrote: > > 2009/11/28 Terry Barnaby wrote: > >> If the NetworkManager service is running, but not managing the current > >> network connection, then Firefox starts up in offline mode. > >> > >> Is this a bug in NetworkManager or Firefox ? > >> > > > > This is odd behaviour and needs to be fixed. I would suggest open up a > > bug against firefox. I know one can change > > toolkit.networkmanager.disable preference, but it is a PITA for our > > users. One of use cases is: Sometime network manager does not connect > > me via my CDMA usb modem (in case signal is weak), but wvdial does and > > once I switch from NM to wvdial, my firefox gets to offline mode, > > which I don't expect it to as I am connected. > > > Ok, filed as: 542078 > >>> > >>> NetworkManager is intended to control the default internet connection. > >>> If NetworkManager cannot control the default internet connection, then > >>> you may not want to use NetworkManager. > >>> > >>> In your case, you're using a mobile broadband device. The real bug here > >>> is that for whatever reason, NM/MM aren't connecting your modem, and we > >>> should follow up on that bug instead. > >>> > >>> Dan > >>> > >> I am not using a mobile broadband device. The network connection my systems > > > > My mistake. I guess it was Rakesh Pandit who was using a CDMA 3G > > connection. > > > >> use is not just the Internet it is a local network LAN connection that also > >> serves the internet. Most of my systems use a local network server which > >> provides NIS, /home and /data using NFS and VPN etc. I normally use the > >> service "network" to bring up wired or wireless networking for this. > >> Fedora, > >> by default, uses NetworkManager to manage all network devices though. I use > >> the service "network" as, for some reason, the NetworkManager service is > >> started after the netfs and other services are started. Is there a reason > >> for this ?? > > > > No particular reason, in fact that looks like a bug. NM no longer > > depends on HAL, but that dependency is still in the initscript, which > > looks like it pushes NM later than netfs. > > > > But in reality, you're looking for a dependency based initsystem which > > we don't quite yet have. There are already scripts that kick netfs to > > mount stuff when NM brings the network up > > (/etc/NetworkManager/dispatcher.d/05-netfs), so you get asynchronous > > bootup *and* your mounts. The rest of the system, if it requires > > something from the mounted directories, needs to be smart enough to know > > that. > > > > If you need to, you can set NETWORKWAIT=yes in /etc/sysconfig/network, > > which causes the NetworkManager initscript to block until a network > > connection is brought up, or 30 seconds have passed. > > > >> I can obviously turn of the NetworkManager service, which I have done on > >> the > >> desktop systems. However, I also have a few Laptops that can roam. In F11 > >> and > >> before I have used the network and NetworkManager services. When the laptop > >> boots away from home, the "network" service fails and I can then use the > >> NetworkManager service to connect to whatever wireless network or G3 > >> network is > >> available. > >> > >> It does seem sensible to me that the "system" provides applications with > >> info > >> on if the network is up (not just the Internet). The NetworkManager service > >> seems the place to do this and it looks like the applications are starting > >> to use it for this purpose. > >> So maybe a generic NM "isNetworkUp()" API call is called for ? > > > > See the other mail; the problem with a generic isUp() is that it simply > > says hey, is there a connection? It doesn't provide enough information > > about the networking state of the system for anything to make an > > intelligent decision about anything. It's a "hey I'm connected to > > something" but there's no information about *what* you're connected to; > > whether it's a secure home network, whether it's a slow 3G network, > > whether it's billed by the minute or the hour or unlimited, etc. > > > > Dan > > > Hi, Thanks for the info. > I would have thought that a generic isUp() is good enough for the likes > of Firefox and Pidgen though to decide if to start offline. Being connected > to a > Network is probably all you need, you may be accessing an Intranet as all > my systems Firefox home pages do ... > > Anyway, following your email (And notes in Bugzilla) I thought I'd try and > use NM properly for my config. However I have a problem, which may be > a bug. I have turned off the Network services and turned on Networ
Re: [RFA] Your [PACKAGE_NAME] did not pass QA
Le lundi 30 novembre 2009 à 19:24 -0600, Matthew Woehlke a écrit : > Nicolas Mailhot wrote: > > When i18n asked what was the exact need for bitmap-fonts no one > answered. Bitmap-fonts is an exact package name installed by default for no reason anyone would justify > Legibility? > > I don't know about font systems, is Terminuis a "core font"? It is > bitmapped, but I don't know if that automatically makes it a "core > font". It does not make it automatically a "core font". Look, people, either take my word core fonts are bad, and induce maintenance, or make the effort to document yourself. -- Nicolas Mailhot signature.asc Description: Ceci est une partie de message numériquement signée -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
[Heads up] goffice = 0.7.16 in rawhide
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Hi All, I put updated goffice to 0.7.16 in rawhide. It will affect three packages namely gnumeric, gnu-cash and gnu-chemistry-utils. I am going to update gnumeric to the lastest soon, and i am sure gnu-cash and gnu-chemistry-utils is ready to handle the updated goffice-devel. - -- Regards, Huzaifa Sidhpurwala, RHCE, CCNA (IRC: huzaifas) GnuPG Fingerprint: 3A0F DAFB 9279 02ED 273B FFE9 CC70 DCF2 DA5B DAE5 -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Red Hat - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iD8DBQFLFKjtzHDc8tpb2uURAqiHAJ4kXIOzSTnookfK662euyIlT9fkSACeL8Xo bMZ6hcJXr3le/oNwpxrktzo= =SyJY -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
Re: [RFA] Your [PACKAGE_NAME] did not pass QA
Nicolas Mailhot wrote: When i18n asked what was the exact need for bitmap-fonts no one answered. Legibility? I don't know about font systems, is Terminuis a "core font"? It is bitmapped, but I don't know if that automatically makes it a "core font". -- Matthew Please do not quote my e-mail address unobfuscated in message bodies. -- Do not expose to extreme heat, cold, or open flame. -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
Re: Fedora 12: Emacs is not for software development
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA256 Adam Williamson wrote: > On Fri, 2009-11-27 at 23:49 -0500, Orcan Ogetbil wrote: >> On Fri, Nov 27, 2009 at 11:19 PM, Braden McDaniel wrote: >> > >> > I'm an emacs user who's nearly completely useless in vi. But, really... >> > it just doesn't matter if emacs isn't installed by default. If you want >> > it, you know how to get it. And let's be frank: emacs is not something >> > that a user who is unaware of it might stumble into and suddenly find >> > himself blindingly productive. (Nor, for that matter, is vi.) >> > >> >> I agree. My problem is not that emacs is missing in development stack. >> My problem is when there is something wrong with the computer and I >> have to boot in the rescue mode, I can't rescue anything because emacs >> is not there. I wrote on a piece of paper how I would save and exit in >> vi, or exit without saving in vi, but that paper is gone now. I wish >> vi had some tutorial the way emacs does, so one don't get lost in it. > > I'd recommend you use nano instead (which is, I believe, installed by > default for just this purpose). It has the main keyboard shortcuts > permanently displayed on screen, so you can't lose 'em. :) > I think there's a shortcut to go into "advanced" mode without those displayed. However, it's probably some finger acrobatic (like all its other shortcuts C-_ to go to line number? wtf?) unlikely to be accidentally pressed, so all should be good for normal usage. - --Ben -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.10 (GNU/Linux) iQIcBAEBCAAGBQJLFFYEAAoJEKaxavVX4C1XQXoQAIWiR/j/S1FHLiLfo+2ii36V dMUOuPuS0yuXJy6JGk/EAtVE7ie/1L7cYpGkM2RKWu+xZRXKt6d1raMrcK4MDa+k +hYuP00fRKlry7BthgA9VWz3EJWk4WzP/QCDlVyB5+iI+sfbujZvw1gKMCYpR85n EcD0OmJHz9TzElhveasmY68GoTFgz+atm+uaAqJDDl2DVRc0fC8I41jeJMeauEoM WCqHD9tOYDQKGMfZiJmsLj2e1MnnBpr0+heFhswKFc4ZXlvhBLLH5ERAQ5nsZ55q ToWRQ2Ah0xrSHgDFjdNR/uFFFn+3oOqf5+a0TJ32VFf6eoixlTr6nVtiOzonx5RO ZDbw11PZks/CXo4U3s4pIAWRap9mE9llo6/ZvAUI7gCxHlvEzqKR2anYeb1F5ZFK Dj0AWkpPYIGV32EcnQQMC5h175AAoX7QNtlnoe8Xwh3SRS/EszcYxslzIYjelLlK 8+8T5DxAvqwJnROM0sZcEpfLHGEPG39Qk/e8YOELBMpS0VRjzfkeb2rpTopjDUlF EdxCNuKSrU02M+q3oqkEUSaGfMfcrD83O0QVbVOqmSYvKZputXOdQI4ACXauqstu jzrGSu4yKtXJNf2h7rS9Gkf90nMHFc/YbRW2PM3F8+Ky6lLE6jXpO1as0Dydj0cm IJHak47popNC3AQcey7M =CMx8 -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
Re: Security testing: need for a security policy, and a security-critical package process
On Mon, 2009-11-30 at 15:17 -0500, Eric Christensen wrote: > Gene, > (Ahh... someone with a similar background...) > > So the biggest question, to me, is to what standard do we start? > There are plenty to choose from from DISA to NIST. I, personally, > find the NSA's "Guide to the Secure Configuration of Red Hat > Enterprise Linux 5" very good and might be a good place to start. I'm > not saying that we do everything that is in the guide but maybe take > the guide and strike things out that don't make sense and add stuff to > it that does make sense. Thanks for the thoughts, Gene and Eric. You seem to be running a long way ahead here :). I should probably say that I think I mistitled the thread: what I was really thinking about here is not 'security', but the more limited area of 'privilege escalation'. I'm not sure we're ready to bite off a comprehensive distro-wide security policy yet, to the extent you two are discussing. Where I'm currently at is that I'm going to talk to some Red Hat / Fedora security folks about the issues raised in all the discussions about this, including this thread, and then file a ticket to ask FESco to look at the matter, possibly including a proposed policy if the security folks help come up with one. And for the moment, only really concerned with the question of privileges. -- Adam Williamson Fedora QA Community Monkey IRC: adamw | Fedora Talk: adamwill AT fedoraproject DOT org http://www.happyassassin.net -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
Re: livecds in the future
On Mon, 2009-11-30 at 13:27 -0500, Peter Jones wrote: > On 11/30/2009 12:27 PM, Matthias Clasen wrote: > > 3. 'Chain-booting' from cd to usb sounds like an elegant way to avoid > > the 'Can't boot USB' problem. Did we figure out how Mandriva are doing > > it ? > > No, we didn't. There are some things we might be able to do here, though, Yeah, sorry, I still haven't managed to find the code or ask anyone involved (it's slightly tricky to sync up with France :>) I'll try and do it this week. -- Adam Williamson Fedora QA Community Monkey IRC: adamw | Fedora Talk: adamwill AT fedoraproject DOT org http://www.happyassassin.net -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
Re: Ubuntu Xorg Guru calls for help. Was Re: Fedora 12 Graphics Issues: Cancel F13 and concentrate on fixing F12 ?
On Mon, 2009-11-30 at 10:28 -0900, Jeff Spaleta wrote: > On Mon, Nov 30, 2009 at 10:16 AM, Haïkel Guémar wrote: > > Instead of whining, he should ask his employer to hire more X hackers, > > one guy is obviously not *enough*. > > This has nothing to do with our issue and Fedora at all. > > What is your definition of hacker? Is he contributing to X.org > upstream development or is he just pulling patchsets to be applied to > distribution specific packages? > > Just as interesting. he's spent most of his time between UDS and > that post trying to address nvidia regressions > > "Fwiw, I pretty much ended up spending 100% of my time between release > and UDS on SRU bugs (mainly for -nvidia)" > > Yippie for prioritizing regressions in proprietary code! Nope, Bryce doesn't get to work on upstream in any significant way as part of his Ubuntu work. I was chatting with Dave about this on IRC the other day. The most significant submission to upstream X.org that's ever come out of Ubuntu is a quirk table. (yippee.) As others have said, this post doesn't really teach Fedora any lessons. It could more accurately have been titled 'Why Having Exactly One X Developer Is A Really Bad Idea For A Major Distribution'. -- Adam Williamson Fedora QA Community Monkey IRC: adamw | Fedora Talk: adamwill AT fedoraproject DOT org http://www.happyassassin.net -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
Re: Fedora 12 Graphics Issues: Cancel F13 and concentrate on fixing F12 ?
On Sun, 2009-11-29 at 20:03 +, Ikem Krueger wrote: > > The Bugzappers also always happy to have more people volunteer to help with > > X.org bug triage; it's a lot of work to keep on top of. > > I'd like to help. But the wikipage for testing Xorg issues* is a way > to much to read, given the case you follow all the links on the site > and you need to do so to get an overview. :S To much confusing for a > "newb". A "real" howto with "goal", "what you need", small steps, > final step, "conclusion" and "how it change things" would be nice. :) > > *https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/How_to_debug_Xorg_problems If you'd like to mock up such a page as a draft and submit it to test-list, that'd be fine. But I'm not sure it's actually possible to make the existing page any _smaller_ without losing valuable information. -- Adam Williamson Fedora QA Community Monkey IRC: adamw | Fedora Talk: adamwill AT fedoraproject DOT org http://www.happyassassin.net -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
Re: Fedora 12 Graphics Issues: Cancel F13 and concentrate on fixing F12 ?
On Sun, 2009-11-29 at 09:23 +, Terry Barnaby wrote: > > That doesn't scale. There's lots of useful pages in the Wiki. We can't > > link to all of them from the front page. > I was thinking of this more as a special Graphics debug push :) Special cases are never a good idea. > >> and add some search terms such as "Graphics Problems", "3D problems" etc. > > > > I'm not sure you can add search terms to Wiki pages, but if you can, > > then sure. > I would have thought that simply adding the text for these in the page would > have helped searching ? It would be rather ugly, though? > > It's a decent idea, the problem I have with it is you wind up with a > > forest of little scripts with no decent maintenance strategy. I'd rather > > have a more integrated and properly maintained tool, it may grow out of > > abrt in future. > Yes, but that the moment the Graphics bugs seem to have random user inputs > of information. I would have thought that a simple script to help with just > Graphics bugs would help just now. (I am hoping all of the graphics problems > will have gone away by next year :) ) This is never a good way of thinking. The more experience you get with working on an ongoing project like a Linux distribution, the more you want to do _everything_ in a properly planned and sustainable framework, because you find that the things you think will just be temporary hacks never ever wind up that way. They just get built into the plumbing and make people's lives miserable forever :) Hoping all graphics problems will go away in a year is definitely not a good way to plan. :) > > We don't do this except for extreme major brokenness which we somehow > > missed during testing, it's not worth the effort involved. Fedora Unity > > does updated re-spins, however they haven't got anything out for F11 yet > > due to some problems, I believe they're looking for extra volunteers. > > > > You say that producing a Fedora "12.1" release is "not worth the effort > involved". Is that truly the case ? > Certainly that is what I always do here. Normally the initial Fedora releases > contain quite a few issues and there are a flurry of updates. So I use pungi > to > create my own updated release that I use to install on further systems. There > is > very little effort in this and, I would have thought, not to much further > testing effort needed. It is a problem that anaconda updates aren't released > however. Certainly from the users front I would have thought that this is > worth > the effort. It allows them to install a Fedora system with the core bugs that > users have found fixed in one pass. Building a spin isn't that much work. Validating it (yes, QA would not want to release any image which hadn't been through full installation validation testing) and doing all the other release gubbins which happens as _well_ as just spinning an image is a lot more work. Not doing .1 releases has been the releng's team position for a long time. I'm not in the releng team so I'm not going to argue their position for them, but it is a properly argued one. Jesse can give you full set of reasons if you like, and if he feels like rehashing them :) -- Adam Williamson Fedora QA Community Monkey IRC: adamw | Fedora Talk: adamwill AT fedoraproject DOT org http://www.happyassassin.net -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
Re: Fedora 12: Emacs is not for software development
On Fri, 2009-11-27 at 23:49 -0500, Orcan Ogetbil wrote: > On Fri, Nov 27, 2009 at 11:19 PM, Braden McDaniel wrote: > > > > I'm an emacs user who's nearly completely useless in vi. But, really... > > it just doesn't matter if emacs isn't installed by default. If you want > > it, you know how to get it. And let's be frank: emacs is not something > > that a user who is unaware of it might stumble into and suddenly find > > himself blindingly productive. (Nor, for that matter, is vi.) > > > > I agree. My problem is not that emacs is missing in development stack. > My problem is when there is something wrong with the computer and I > have to boot in the rescue mode, I can't rescue anything because emacs > is not there. I wrote on a piece of paper how I would save and exit in > vi, or exit without saving in vi, but that paper is gone now. I wish > vi had some tutorial the way emacs does, so one don't get lost in it. I'd recommend you use nano instead (which is, I believe, installed by default for just this purpose). It has the main keyboard shortcuts permanently displayed on screen, so you can't lose 'em. :) -- Adam Williamson Fedora QA Community Monkey IRC: adamw | Fedora Talk: adamwill AT fedoraproject DOT org http://www.happyassassin.net -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
Fedora Release Engineering meeting summary for 2009-11-30
Minutes: http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting/2009-11-30/fedora-releng.2009-11-30-18.00.html Minutes (text): http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting/2009-11-30/fedora-releng.2009-11-30-18.00.txt Log: http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting/2009-11-30/fedora-releng.2009-11-30-18.00.log.html Meeting summary --- * Roll Call (Oxf13, 18:00:55) * Fedora 13 Schedule (Oxf13, 18:03:24) * https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-infrastructure-list/2009-November/msg00159.html (poelcat, 18:12:40) * oxf13 has forwarded John's mail to mirror-list for discussion (Oxf13, 18:29:22) * LINK: http://poelstra.fedorapeople.org/schedules/f-13-draft/f-13-two-more.html (poelcat, 18:53:02) * IDEA: Extend development time by 2 weeks in order to push our schedule 2 weeks later and avoid Ubuntu release conflicts for both our release and our staging. (Oxf13, 18:53:34) * AGREED: schedule will be moved 2 weeks later by adding 2 weeks to development time in order to clear conflicts with ubuntu release. (Oxf13, 19:06:51) * LXDE respin (Oxf13, 19:07:00) * New information regarding LXDE update, seems only a .ks change is required to fix the original issue. THe updated package is for a separate and non-fatal issue. (Oxf13, 19:20:59) * IDEA: Given new information, I propose the FESCo ticket gets updated and another vote happens at the FESCo level as to ship just the .ks change or include the questionable security update. (Oxf13, 19:21:53) * AGREED: LXDE respin decision kicked back up to FESCo in light of new information. (Oxf13, 19:29:12) * Updates (Oxf13, 19:29:18) * open floor (Oxf13, 19:40:29) Meeting ended at 19:45:31 UTC. -- Jesse Keating Fedora -- Freedom² is a feature! identi.ca: http://identi.ca/jkeating signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
Re: livecds in the future
Hi, On ۰۹/۱۱/۲۴ 10:11, Orcan Ogetbil wrote: On Mon, Nov 23, 2009 at 3:51 PM, Ben Williams wrote: (yes i know the size sux, but not everyone has highspeed internet thats why they are downloading the livecd and not the dvd) Another interpretation would be: The contents of the DVD does not satisfy the needs of many people. I am in that ship for instance. There is so much useless stuff in the DVD that I will never use that makes it a waste of time for me to download. In that sense, I use the LiveCD for installation, because I *have* fast internet, so I can pull and install packages real fast. Yes, in fact DVDs are most suitable for people with slow internet connections. Such people will NOT download Fedora at all! So, neither netinst.iso nor livecds are appropriate for people with slow internet connections. They'll buy Fedora DVDs since it contains more software and they don't need to download too much. Why should somebody with fast Internet access download DVDs? They can download whatever they want when needed. Thanks, Hedayat Orcan -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
Re: Fedora 12: Emacs is not for software development
On 11/30/2009 04:40 PM, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > On 12/01/2009 02:59 AM, Muayyad AlSadi wrote: I consider "real men" to be a gender-neutral complement. I know women who gladly receive it and exchange it amongst themselves. >> >>> Since we're offering Casey money to do things¹ today: >>> I will send you a check for $5 if you admit that "real men" is _in no way_ >>> a gender-neutral compliment. >> >> since he had used "many of whom" instead of "many of which" when >> referring to packages, I guess English is not his mother language >> and in his native language "real men" could be gender-neutral. > > "Real men" is always sexist. > > Rahul > Wrong. In the hierarchy of subtexts, irony always trumps prejudice. --CJD -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
Re: Fedora 12: Emacs is not for software development
On 12/01/2009 02:59 AM, Muayyad AlSadi wrote: >>> I consider "real men" to be a gender-neutral complement. I know women who >>> gladly receive it and exchange it amongst themselves. > >> Since we're offering Casey money to do things¹ today: >> I will send you a check for $5 if you admit that "real men" is _in no way_ a >> gender-neutral compliment. > > since he had used "many of whom" instead of "many of which" when > referring to packages, I guess English is not his mother language > and in his native language "real men" could be gender-neutral. "Real men" is always sexist. Rahul -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
Re: Fedora 12: Emacs is not for software development
>> I consider "real men" to be a gender-neutral complement. I know women who >> gladly receive it and exchange it amongst themselves. > Since we're offering Casey money to do things¹ today: > I will send you a check for $5 if you admit that "real men" is _in no way_ a > gender-neutral compliment. since he had used "many of whom" instead of "many of which" when referring to packages, I guess English is not his mother language and in his native language "real men" could be gender-neutral. On Mon, Nov 30, 2009 at 11:17 PM, Chris Ball wrote: > Hi, > > > On 11/30/2009 11:49 AM, Jesse Keating wrote: > >> I guess all the female hackers are just SOL? > > > I consider "real men" to be a gender-neutral complement. I know > > women who gladly receive it and exchange it amongst themselves. > > Since we're offering Casey money to do things¹ today: > > I will send you a check for $5 if you admit that "real men" is _in no > way_ a gender-neutral compliment. > > - Chris. > > ¹: http://article.gmane.org/gmane.linux.redhat.fedora.devel/125130 > -- > Chris Ball > One Laptop Per Child > > -- > fedora-devel-list mailing list > fedora-devel-list@redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list > -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
Re: Fedora 12: Emacs is not for software development
Hi, > On 11/30/2009 11:49 AM, Jesse Keating wrote: >> I guess all the female hackers are just SOL? > I consider "real men" to be a gender-neutral complement. I know > women who gladly receive it and exchange it amongst themselves. Since we're offering Casey money to do things¹ today: I will send you a check for $5 if you admit that "real men" is _in no way_ a gender-neutral compliment. - Chris. ¹: http://article.gmane.org/gmane.linux.redhat.fedora.devel/125130 -- Chris Ball One Laptop Per Child -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
Re: Fedora 12: Emacs is not for software development
2009/11/30 Casey Dahlin : > (well, Java people do, but its impossible to do anything useful in Java > anyway. That's why you need a gigantic resource-intensive IDE to do > everything for you). > You're right, I'm converted! Using a clever IDE is so not worth the millions of pounds they pay us to write this Java nonsense. ;-) Lots of love, An Eclipse user. -- Mat Booth -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
Re: F12: NetworkManager-Firefox: Firefox is currently in offline mode and can't browse the Web
On Mon, Nov 30, 2009 at 11:48 AM, Josh Boyer wrote: > I'd count that. I'll watch for a week and if things seem better > I'll send your check after you send me your address :). Will you pay me $5 to not switch to t-bird? -jef -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
Re: F12: NetworkManager-Firefox: Firefox is currently in offline mode and can't browse the Web
On Mon, Nov 30, 2009 at 03:28:55PM -0500, Casey Dahlin wrote: >On 11/30/2009 03:26 PM, Josh Boyer wrote: >> On Mon, Nov 30, 2009 at 02:54:22PM -0500, Casey Dahlin wrote: >>> On 11/30/2009 01:05 PM, Dan Williams wrote: On Mon, 2009-11-30 at 10:05 +, Steven Whitehouse wrote: configuration, control, and monitoring. Yes, it's harder for experts to create a world-dominating robot with duct tape and bailing wire because most of the parts are already assembled, but for most people it provides a ready-to-use solution with great integration possibilities into your system environment. >>> >>> Then stop shipping the duct tape and bailing wire. If things outside of NM >>> aren't going to work right or are going to break other stuff, get rid of >>> them. The only reason not to is "what if NM is broken," which is a moot >>> point since offering a broken interface to use as a backup in case another >>> interface is broken makes no sense. Stick with the one we're interested in >>> supporting and deal with that set of bugs. >> >> I will send you a check for $5 if you configure your mailer to do line >> breaks properly. I am not joking. >> >> josh >> > >*facepalm* T-bird strikes again. > >Can I claim the money if I just switch mailers, because I'm due. I'd count that. I'll watch for a week and if things seem better I'll send your check after you send me your address :). josh -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
Re: Security testing: need for a security policy, and a security-critical package process
Gene Czarcinski (g...@czarc.net) said: > Keep it simple (KISS) for the initial attempt. It will grow more complicated > all by itself as time passes. > > BTW, the security policy should assume that a grub password is in use so that > a user cannot do something like disabling selinux by editing the kernel > command line. This should be tested by the security QA. That seems very broken. A security policy that is violated on every single out of the box install that doesn't do customization? Bill -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
Re: F12: NetworkManager-Firefox: Firefox is currently in offline mode and can't browse the Web
On 11/30/2009 03:26 PM, Josh Boyer wrote: > On Mon, Nov 30, 2009 at 02:54:22PM -0500, Casey Dahlin wrote: >> On 11/30/2009 01:05 PM, Dan Williams wrote: >>> On Mon, 2009-11-30 at 10:05 +, Steven Whitehouse wrote: >>> configuration, control, and monitoring. Yes, it's harder for experts to >>> create a world-dominating robot with duct tape and bailing wire because >>> most of the parts are already assembled, but for most people it provides >>> a ready-to-use solution with great integration possibilities into your >>> system environment. >>> >> >> Then stop shipping the duct tape and bailing wire. If things outside of NM >> aren't going to work right or are going to break other stuff, get rid of >> them. The only reason not to is "what if NM is broken," which is a moot >> point since offering a broken interface to use as a backup in case another >> interface is broken makes no sense. Stick with the one we're interested in >> supporting and deal with that set of bugs. > > I will send you a check for $5 if you configure your mailer to do line > breaks properly. I am not joking. > > josh > *facepalm* T-bird strikes again. Can I claim the money if I just switch mailers, because I'm due. --CJD -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
Re: F12: NetworkManager-Firefox: Firefox is currently in offline mode and can't browse the Web
On Mon, Nov 30, 2009 at 02:54:22PM -0500, Casey Dahlin wrote: >On 11/30/2009 01:05 PM, Dan Williams wrote: >> On Mon, 2009-11-30 at 10:05 +, Steven Whitehouse wrote: >> configuration, control, and monitoring. Yes, it's harder for experts to >> create a world-dominating robot with duct tape and bailing wire because >> most of the parts are already assembled, but for most people it provides >> a ready-to-use solution with great integration possibilities into your >> system environment. >> > >Then stop shipping the duct tape and bailing wire. If things outside of NM >aren't going to work right or are going to break other stuff, get rid of them. >The only reason not to is "what if NM is broken," which is a moot point since >offering a broken interface to use as a backup in case another interface is >broken makes no sense. Stick with the one we're interested in supporting and >deal with that set of bugs. I will send you a check for $5 if you configure your mailer to do line breaks properly. I am not joking. josh -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
Re: memset bugs.
On 11/30/2009 01:10 PM, Peter Jones wrote: > On 11/30/2009 11:39 AM, Casey Dahlin wrote: >> On 11/30/2009 10:39 AM, Peter Jones wrote: >>> On 11/27/2009 02:25 PM, Casey Dahlin wrote: On 11/27/2009 06:03 AM, Richard W.M. Jones wrote: > On Fri, Nov 27, 2009 at 03:28:19AM -0500, Gregory Maxwell > wrote: >> A literal zero prior to preprocessing is either a bug, or >> some kind of dead- code causing place-holder. > > Not necessarily .. the C code itself may be generated from > something else. > > Rich. > In which case the C code is no longer "source" and should be excluded from the analysis. >>> >>> No, when swig (or whatever) produces bad code, we still want the >>> compiler to identify it and toss it. It's then up to the packager >>> to realize it's swig producing the bad code, but it isn't magically >>> good code that doesn't result in real bugs. >>> >> >> The compiler isn't doing these checks, but point taken. > > Go read Jakub's reply again ;) > > https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-devel-list/2009-November/msg01966.html > I stand corrected. --CJD -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
Re: Ubuntu Xorg Guru calls for help. Was Re: Fedora 12 Graphics Issues: Cancel F13 and concentrate on fixing F12 ?
Le 30/11/2009 20:28, Jeff Spaleta a écrit : > > What is your definition of hacker? Is he contributing to X.org > upstream development or is he just pulling patchsets to be applied to > distribution specific packages? > Likely the second option, I'd expect from the company claiming leadership on the desktop to be more active on the X.org front especially when it needs more horsepower. The poor man is suffering hardships, off course, he is all alone managing the whole X stack. The sensible answer would be to ask to hire some help, the better would be X developers, at least someone familiar enough with X code base to provide some support. Not complaining about the flood of bugs. > Just as interesting. he's spent most of his time between UDS and > that post trying to address nvidia regressions > > "Fwiw, I pretty much ended up spending 100% of my time between release > and UDS on SRU bugs (mainly for -nvidia)" > > Yippie for prioritizing regressions in proprietary code! > > -jef > -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
Re: Security testing: need for a security policy, and a security-critical package process
On Mon, Nov 30, 2009 at 15:09, Gene Czarcinski wrote: > Although I have read all of the messages on this thread as of the date/time > of > this message, I am replying to this first message with all of my comments. > > My background: I am currently retired but a few years ago I was still being > paid the big bucks for working on computer security and security assessment > of > systems in US classified environments. > > On the whole, I believe that Adam has outlined a good approach to the > problem > of doing QA on security for Fedora! > > General comment: I have read messages which claim that the approach is > wrong > and that we need to look at things that a user can do rather than what a > user > cannot do. I disagree. While the right approach for design/development is > to > assume that a user can do nothing except what they are specifically > authorized > to do, for security QA this needs to be turned around and the testing needs > to > demonstrate what a user cannot do. > > On Monday 23 November 2009 17:08:31 Adam Williamson wrote: > > We can't do any meaningful security testing without knowing exactly what > > we should be testing for, in which packages. I believe Seth Vidal's > > upcoming proposal for covering 'major changes' may touch on this, but I > > doubt they'll cover exactly the same ground. > > > > So, if we are to have meaningful security testing in future releases - > > which QA believes would be a good thing - we need the project to define > > a security policy. We believe there's a genuine need for this anyway, as > > the introduction and widespread adoption of PolicyKit will likely lead > > to much more complex and significant potential changes in security > > posture than any previous change. > > > > It's not QA's role to define exactly what the security policy should > > look like or what it should cover, but from the point of view of > > testing, what we really need are concrete requirements. The policy does > > not have to be immediately comprehensive - try and cover every possible > > security-related issue - to be valuable. Something as simple as spot's > > proposed list of things an unprivileged user must not be able to do - > > http://spot.livejournal.com/312216.html - would serve a valuable purpose > > here. > +1 > > A written description of the security policy is a must! Without it being > written down in simple english (with translations as appropriate), there > will > be far too much subjective interpretation of what the policy is. I believe > spot's list is a good starting point for F13. > > However, the policy should consider how Fedora should work with respect to > security and not how it does work as currently implemented. For example, > you > cannot currently login as root from the gui (gdm) interface but you can > login > as root from a virtual terminal ... is this the way the system should work? > > Keep it simple (KISS) for the initial attempt. It will grow more > complicated > all by itself as time passes. > > BTW, the security policy should assume that a grub password is in use so > that > a user cannot do something like disabling selinux by editing the kernel > command line. This should be tested by the security QA. > > > > > The second thing QA would require, aside from a policy with concrete and > > testable requirements, is a list of security-sensitive components to > > test. Obviously we couldn't test every package in the entire > > distribution for compliance with even such a simple list as spot's, and > > it would be a waste of time to try. > +1 > > You definitely need to define a "reference implementation" that will be > tested. > Security assurance testing is done on "as-built" systems ... not "as > designed"! It may be possible but is not practical to test everything. [or > will take so long that the release will no longer be supported] > > Furthermore, I believe you should initially focus on a small subset of what > is > in Fedora (perhaps gnome only) and with a selected set of services > (servers). > > At this point in time, considering all of the various windows > implementations > (gnome, kde, openbox, xfce, etc.) will result in a lot of motion but little > of > it in a forward direction. KISS!!! > > ... > Given a written security policy for Fedora and a written description of the > "reference implementation" that will be tested, these need to be vetted and > "tuned" from comments. > > After a reasonable amount of time, these documents/specifications should be > approved by the Fedora Executive Committee (or whatever). Any variation or > change, should require additional approval. There should be some > independent > oversight of the security QA process to minimize subjective > (re)interpretation. > > This will NOT make everyone happy. Sorry, but there is only so much > resources > and you really do not want this to be a black hole which consumes > everything > else. > > Start small, grow, and learn. Two years from now, the secu
Re: Fedora 12: Emacs is not for software development
On 11/30/2009 11:49 AM, Jesse Keating wrote: > On Mon, 2009-11-30 at 11:26 -0500, Casey Dahlin wrote: >> On 11/28/2009 10:23 AM, Kevin Kofler wrote: >>> Debayan Banerjee wrote: Well one does need an editor for development. Assuming vim and emacs have roughly equal user bases, chosing emacs over vim for the distribution shows Fedora packagers' personal preference too. I guess both vim and emacs should be available. >>> >>> Both vim and Emacs are obsolescent and hard to use. Kate FTW! >>> >>> Kevin Kofler >>> >> >> On the contrary, they're both quite easy to use. They're just hard to learn. >> This is intentional. If you're smart enough to use a real man's editor then >> you're smart enough to send patches to other real men who are writing real >> men's software. We don't actually want just /anyone/ writing code, do we? >> (well, Java people do, but its impossible to do anything useful in Java >> anyway. That's why you need a gigantic resource-intensive IDE to do >> everything for you). >> >> --CJD >> > > I guess all the female hackers are just SOL? > > I consider "real men" to be a gender-neutral complement. I know women who gladly receive it and exchange it amongst themselves. Not to say that that doesn't necessitate clarification. --CJD -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
Re: Security testing: need for a security policy, and a security-critical package process
Although I have read all of the messages on this thread as of the date/time of this message, I am replying to this first message with all of my comments. My background: I am currently retired but a few years ago I was still being paid the big bucks for working on computer security and security assessment of systems in US classified environments. On the whole, I believe that Adam has outlined a good approach to the problem of doing QA on security for Fedora! General comment: I have read messages which claim that the approach is wrong and that we need to look at things that a user can do rather than what a user cannot do. I disagree. While the right approach for design/development is to assume that a user can do nothing except what they are specifically authorized to do, for security QA this needs to be turned around and the testing needs to demonstrate what a user cannot do. On Monday 23 November 2009 17:08:31 Adam Williamson wrote: > We can't do any meaningful security testing without knowing exactly what > we should be testing for, in which packages. I believe Seth Vidal's > upcoming proposal for covering 'major changes' may touch on this, but I > doubt they'll cover exactly the same ground. > > So, if we are to have meaningful security testing in future releases - > which QA believes would be a good thing - we need the project to define > a security policy. We believe there's a genuine need for this anyway, as > the introduction and widespread adoption of PolicyKit will likely lead > to much more complex and significant potential changes in security > posture than any previous change. > > It's not QA's role to define exactly what the security policy should > look like or what it should cover, but from the point of view of > testing, what we really need are concrete requirements. The policy does > not have to be immediately comprehensive - try and cover every possible > security-related issue - to be valuable. Something as simple as spot's > proposed list of things an unprivileged user must not be able to do - > http://spot.livejournal.com/312216.html - would serve a valuable purpose > here. +1 A written description of the security policy is a must! Without it being written down in simple english (with translations as appropriate), there will be far too much subjective interpretation of what the policy is. I believe spot's list is a good starting point for F13. However, the policy should consider how Fedora should work with respect to security and not how it does work as currently implemented. For example, you cannot currently login as root from the gui (gdm) interface but you can login as root from a virtual terminal ... is this the way the system should work? Keep it simple (KISS) for the initial attempt. It will grow more complicated all by itself as time passes. BTW, the security policy should assume that a grub password is in use so that a user cannot do something like disabling selinux by editing the kernel command line. This should be tested by the security QA. > > The second thing QA would require, aside from a policy with concrete and > testable requirements, is a list of security-sensitive components to > test. Obviously we couldn't test every package in the entire > distribution for compliance with even such a simple list as spot's, and > it would be a waste of time to try. +1 You definitely need to define a "reference implementation" that will be tested. Security assurance testing is done on "as-built" systems ... not "as designed"! It may be possible but is not practical to test everything. [or will take so long that the release will no longer be supported] Furthermore, I believe you should initially focus on a small subset of what is in Fedora (perhaps gnome only) and with a selected set of services (servers). At this point in time, considering all of the various windows implementations (gnome, kde, openbox, xfce, etc.) will result in a lot of motion but little of it in a forward direction. KISS!!! ... Given a written security policy for Fedora and a written description of the "reference implementation" that will be tested, these need to be vetted and "tuned" from comments. After a reasonable amount of time, these documents/specifications should be approved by the Fedora Executive Committee (or whatever). Any variation or change, should require additional approval. There should be some independent oversight of the security QA process to minimize subjective (re)interpretation. This will NOT make everyone happy. Sorry, but there is only so much resources and you really do not want this to be a black hole which consumes everything else. Start small, grow, and learn. Two years from now, the security policy, the reference installation/configurations, and the QA process for securtiy will likely be very different. Gene -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listi
Re: Fedora 12 Graphics Issues: Cancel F13 and concentrate on fixing F12 ?
> For the Qt-demo rendering issue on intel, it is fixed by Qt 4.6. Good to hear! -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
Re: F12: NetworkManager-Firefox: Firefox is currently in offline mode and can't browse the Web
On 11/30/2009 01:05 PM, Dan Williams wrote: > On Mon, 2009-11-30 at 10:05 +, Steven Whitehouse wrote: > configuration, control, and monitoring. Yes, it's harder for experts to > create a world-dominating robot with duct tape and bailing wire because > most of the parts are already assembled, but for most people it provides > a ready-to-use solution with great integration possibilities into your > system environment. > Then stop shipping the duct tape and bailing wire. If things outside of NM aren't going to work right or are going to break other stuff, get rid of them. The only reason not to is "what if NM is broken," which is a moot point since offering a broken interface to use as a backup in case another interface is broken makes no sense. Stick with the one we're interested in supporting and deal with that set of bugs. --CJD > Dan > > -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
Re: F12: NetworkManager-Firefox: Firefox is currently in offline mode and can't browse the Web
On 11/30/2009 06:12 PM, Dan Williams wrote: On Mon, 2009-11-30 at 09:55 +, Terry Barnaby wrote: On 11/29/2009 11:30 PM, Dan Williams wrote: On Sat, 2009-11-28 at 09:10 +, Terry Barnaby wrote: On 11/28/2009 08:35 AM, Rakesh Pandit wrote: 2009/11/28 Terry Barnaby wrote: If the NetworkManager service is running, but not managing the current network connection, then Firefox starts up in offline mode. Is this a bug in NetworkManager or Firefox ? This is odd behaviour and needs to be fixed. I would suggest open up a bug against firefox. I know one can change toolkit.networkmanager.disable preference, but it is a PITA for our users. One of use cases is: Sometime network manager does not connect me via my CDMA usb modem (in case signal is weak), but wvdial does and once I switch from NM to wvdial, my firefox gets to offline mode, which I don't expect it to as I am connected. Ok, filed as: 542078 NetworkManager is intended to control the default internet connection. If NetworkManager cannot control the default internet connection, then you may not want to use NetworkManager. In your case, you're using a mobile broadband device. The real bug here is that for whatever reason, NM/MM aren't connecting your modem, and we should follow up on that bug instead. Dan I am not using a mobile broadband device. The network connection my systems My mistake. I guess it was Rakesh Pandit who was using a CDMA 3G connection. use is not just the Internet it is a local network LAN connection that also serves the internet. Most of my systems use a local network server which provides NIS, /home and /data using NFS and VPN etc. I normally use the service "network" to bring up wired or wireless networking for this. Fedora, by default, uses NetworkManager to manage all network devices though. I use the service "network" as, for some reason, the NetworkManager service is started after the netfs and other services are started. Is there a reason for this ?? No particular reason, in fact that looks like a bug. NM no longer depends on HAL, but that dependency is still in the initscript, which looks like it pushes NM later than netfs. But in reality, you're looking for a dependency based initsystem which we don't quite yet have. There are already scripts that kick netfs to mount stuff when NM brings the network up (/etc/NetworkManager/dispatcher.d/05-netfs), so you get asynchronous bootup *and* your mounts. The rest of the system, if it requires something from the mounted directories, needs to be smart enough to know that. If you need to, you can set NETWORKWAIT=yes in /etc/sysconfig/network, which causes the NetworkManager initscript to block until a network connection is brought up, or 30 seconds have passed. I can obviously turn of the NetworkManager service, which I have done on the desktop systems. However, I also have a few Laptops that can roam. In F11 and before I have used the network and NetworkManager services. When the laptop boots away from home, the "network" service fails and I can then use the NetworkManager service to connect to whatever wireless network or G3 network is available. It does seem sensible to me that the "system" provides applications with info on if the network is up (not just the Internet). The NetworkManager service seems the place to do this and it looks like the applications are starting to use it for this purpose. So maybe a generic NM "isNetworkUp()" API call is called for ? See the other mail; the problem with a generic isUp() is that it simply says hey, is there a connection? It doesn't provide enough information about the networking state of the system for anything to make an intelligent decision about anything. It's a "hey I'm connected to something" but there's no information about *what* you're connected to; whether it's a secure home network, whether it's a slow 3G network, whether it's billed by the minute or the hour or unlimited, etc. Dan Hi, Thanks for the info. I would have thought that a generic isUp() is good enough for the likes of Firefox and Pidgen though to decide if to start offline. Being connected to a Network is probably all you need, you may be accessing an Intranet as all my systems Firefox home pages do ... Anyway, following your email (And notes in Bugzilla) I thought I'd try and use NM properly for my config. However I have a problem, which may be a bug. I have turned off the Network services and turned on NetworkManger. I have two main network interfaces eth0 (wired) and eth1 (Wifi), both are set to be managed by NM and to start at boot. I have also added NETWORKWAIT=yes in /etc/sysconfig/network. When I boot with this the network (eth1 (eth0 is disconnected)) does not come up at boot. There is a message stating a failure on the line where it is waiting for the network to come up. When I log in as a local user the network then comes up ... I also note that, before the user is logged in, I cannot start the network with "servic
Re: Ubuntu Xorg Guru calls for help. Was Re: Fedora 12 Graphics Issues: Cancel F13 and concentrate on fixing F12 ?
On Mon, Nov 30, 2009 at 10:16 AM, Haïkel Guémar wrote: > Instead of whining, he should ask his employer to hire more X hackers, > one guy is obviously not *enough*. > This has nothing to do with our issue and Fedora at all. What is your definition of hacker? Is he contributing to X.org upstream development or is he just pulling patchsets to be applied to distribution specific packages? Just as interesting. he's spent most of his time between UDS and that post trying to address nvidia regressions "Fwiw, I pretty much ended up spending 100% of my time between release and UDS on SRU bugs (mainly for -nvidia)" Yippie for prioritizing regressions in proprietary code! -jef -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
Re: Ubuntu Xorg Guru calls for help. Was Re: Fedora 12 Graphics Issues: Cancel F13 and concentrate on fixing F12 ?
Le 30/11/2009 18:01, Linuxguy123 a écrit : > http://www.linux-magazine.com/Online/News/Ubuntu-X.org-Guru-Calls-for-Desktop-Help > > > Instead of whining, he should ask his employer to hire more X hackers, one guy is obviously not *enough*. This has nothing to do with our issue and Fedora at all. -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
Re: Ubuntu Xorg Guru calls for help. Was Re: Fedora 12 Graphics Issues: Cancel F13 and concentrate on fixing F12 ?
On Mon, 2009-11-30 at 10:01 -0700, Linuxguy123 wrote: > http://www.linux-magazine.com/Online/News/Ubuntu-X.org-Guru-Calls-for-Desktop-Help Let's see if I can summarize this article: - we're getting too many bugs - more testing will find more bugs - therefore we should test more so we have fewer bugs Interesting bit of logic there. - ajax signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
Re: RPM installation order
On Mon, Nov 30, 2009 at 11:08 AM, Bruno Wolff III wrote: > I don't believe that would be correct. I think you need Requires(Post) or > Requires(Pre) to make sure a package is installed when pre or post scripts > are run. OK, will do. Thanks for the help. -- Jerry James http://www.jamezone.org/ -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
Re: Fedora 12 Graphics Issues: Cancel F13 and concentrate on fixing F12 ?
Le 30/11/2009 19:24, Jud Craft a écrit : > On Sun, Nov 29, 2009 at 10:46 PM, Bojan Smojver wrote: >> Rudolf Kastl writes: >>> intel (i965) works fine... >> >> You are lucky. Major regressions there in F-12. On my hardware, this used to >> work when nomodeset was passed to kernel. Now, it doesn't any more. With >> KMS, on >> the other hand, hibernate/thaw or suspend/resume causes the whole system to >> go >> berserk after a few cycles. So, I'm back to metacity and 2D. Bugs filed, of >> course, etc. > > I've got a i965, and while I admit that it's still a little rough, it > works mostly fine, with KMS and 3D doing fine. Compiz and GNOME Shell > are pretty functional, and suspend and hibernate are nearly flawless > (or at least as flawless is on Linux). > > The only real problem is a conflict with rendering in Qt-demo, but...alas. > For the Qt-demo rendering issue on intel, it is fixed by Qt 4.6. -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
Re: livecds in the future
On 11/30/2009 12:27 PM, Matthias Clasen wrote: > 3. 'Chain-booting' from cd to usb sounds like an elegant way to avoid > the 'Can't boot USB' problem. Did we figure out how Mandriva are doing > it ? No, we didn't. There are some things we might be able to do here, though, which may solve this problem without actually "chain-booting". The most obvious is to make sure the live image's initrd searches for a USB device with the right filesystem label (and possibly other criteria) and mounts that as root, and then build a liveboot.iso with one boot image and no[1] real filesystem. The boot image would contain the kernel and initrd as the only boot option. This is fairly trivial to do, actually. [1] It'd have to have an iso9660 filesystem with the isolinux/ directory much like our current boot.iso does, but the kernel and initrd there would be the ones from the live image, and we wouldn't put the rest of the live OS on the disc. -- Peter -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
Re: Fedora 12 Graphics Issues: Cancel F13 and concentrate on fixing F12 ?
On Sun, Nov 29, 2009 at 10:46 PM, Bojan Smojver wrote: > Rudolf Kastl writes: >> intel (i965) works fine... > > You are lucky. Major regressions there in F-12. On my hardware, this used to > work when nomodeset was passed to kernel. Now, it doesn't any more. With KMS, > on > the other hand, hibernate/thaw or suspend/resume causes the whole system to go > berserk after a few cycles. So, I'm back to metacity and 2D. Bugs filed, of > course, etc. I've got a i965, and while I admit that it's still a little rough, it works mostly fine, with KMS and 3D doing fine. Compiz and GNOME Shell are pretty functional, and suspend and hibernate are nearly flawless (or at least as flawless is on Linux). The only real problem is a conflict with rendering in Qt-demo, but...alas. -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
Re: F12: NetworkManager-Firefox: Firefox is currently in offline mode and can't browse the Web
On Mon, 2009-11-30 at 09:55 +, Terry Barnaby wrote: > On 11/29/2009 11:30 PM, Dan Williams wrote: > > On Sat, 2009-11-28 at 09:10 +, Terry Barnaby wrote: > >> On 11/28/2009 08:35 AM, Rakesh Pandit wrote: > >>> 2009/11/28 Terry Barnaby wrote: > If the NetworkManager service is running, but not managing the current > network connection, then Firefox starts up in offline mode. > > Is this a bug in NetworkManager or Firefox ? > > >>> > >>> This is odd behaviour and needs to be fixed. I would suggest open up a > >>> bug against firefox. I know one can change > >>> toolkit.networkmanager.disable preference, but it is a PITA for our > >>> users. One of use cases is: Sometime network manager does not connect > >>> me via my CDMA usb modem (in case signal is weak), but wvdial does and > >>> once I switch from NM to wvdial, my firefox gets to offline mode, > >>> which I don't expect it to as I am connected. > >>> > >> Ok, filed as: 542078 > > > > NetworkManager is intended to control the default internet connection. > > If NetworkManager cannot control the default internet connection, then > > you may not want to use NetworkManager. > > > > In your case, you're using a mobile broadband device. The real bug here > > is that for whatever reason, NM/MM aren't connecting your modem, and we > > should follow up on that bug instead. > > > > Dan > > > I am not using a mobile broadband device. The network connection my systems My mistake. I guess it was Rakesh Pandit who was using a CDMA 3G connection. > use is not just the Internet it is a local network LAN connection that also > serves the internet. Most of my systems use a local network server which > provides NIS, /home and /data using NFS and VPN etc. I normally use the > service "network" to bring up wired or wireless networking for this. Fedora, > by default, uses NetworkManager to manage all network devices though. I use > the service "network" as, for some reason, the NetworkManager service is > started after the netfs and other services are started. Is there a reason > for this ?? No particular reason, in fact that looks like a bug. NM no longer depends on HAL, but that dependency is still in the initscript, which looks like it pushes NM later than netfs. But in reality, you're looking for a dependency based initsystem which we don't quite yet have. There are already scripts that kick netfs to mount stuff when NM brings the network up (/etc/NetworkManager/dispatcher.d/05-netfs), so you get asynchronous bootup *and* your mounts. The rest of the system, if it requires something from the mounted directories, needs to be smart enough to know that. If you need to, you can set NETWORKWAIT=yes in /etc/sysconfig/network, which causes the NetworkManager initscript to block until a network connection is brought up, or 30 seconds have passed. > I can obviously turn of the NetworkManager service, which I have done on the > desktop systems. However, I also have a few Laptops that can roam. In F11 and > before I have used the network and NetworkManager services. When the laptop > boots away from home, the "network" service fails and I can then use the > NetworkManager service to connect to whatever wireless network or G3 network > is > available. > > It does seem sensible to me that the "system" provides applications with info > on if the network is up (not just the Internet). The NetworkManager service > seems the place to do this and it looks like the applications are starting > to use it for this purpose. > So maybe a generic NM "isNetworkUp()" API call is called for ? See the other mail; the problem with a generic isUp() is that it simply says hey, is there a connection? It doesn't provide enough information about the networking state of the system for anything to make an intelligent decision about anything. It's a "hey I'm connected to something" but there's no information about *what* you're connected to; whether it's a secure home network, whether it's a slow 3G network, whether it's billed by the minute or the hour or unlimited, etc. Dan -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
Re: RPM installation order
On Mon, Nov 30, 2009 at 11:00:49 -0700,
Jerry James wrote:
> On Mon, Nov 30, 2009 at 10:55 AM, Mamoru Tasaka
> wrote:
> > Ah, rather gcl package has "Requires: gcl-selinux = %{version}-%{release}",
> > so currently I am not sure what you want.
>
> Ah, right, I'd forgotten that we did that to satisfy the need for a
> couple of other packages to have access to the policy without dragging
> gcl itself in. So all I need to do is move the fixfiles invocation to
> the main package's %post. Thank you!
I don't believe that would be correct. I think you need Requires(Post) or
Requires(Pre) to make sure a package is installed when pre or post scripts
are run.
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Re: memset bugs.
On 11/30/2009 11:39 AM, Casey Dahlin wrote: > On 11/30/2009 10:39 AM, Peter Jones wrote: >> On 11/27/2009 02:25 PM, Casey Dahlin wrote: >>> On 11/27/2009 06:03 AM, Richard W.M. Jones wrote: On Fri, Nov 27, 2009 at 03:28:19AM -0500, Gregory Maxwell wrote: > A literal zero prior to preprocessing is either a bug, or > some kind of dead- code causing place-holder. Not necessarily .. the C code itself may be generated from something else. Rich. >>> >>> In which case the C code is no longer "source" and should be >>> excluded from the analysis. >> >> No, when swig (or whatever) produces bad code, we still want the >> compiler to identify it and toss it. It's then up to the packager >> to realize it's swig producing the bad code, but it isn't magically >> good code that doesn't result in real bugs. >> > > The compiler isn't doing these checks, but point taken. Go read Jakub's reply again ;) https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-devel-list/2009-November/msg01966.html -- Peter Sanity's just a one trick pony anyway. You only get one trick -- rational thinking -- but when you're good and crazy, the sky's the limit! -- The Tick -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
Re: RPM installation order
Jerry James wrote: > Is there a canonical way of dealing with such issues? I need to run > fixfiles after BOTH gcl and gcl-selinux have been installed. How can > I ensure that? (I suppose I could invoke fixfiles in %post scripts > for both gcl and gcl-selinux, so that whichever one runs last does the > right thing, but that seems unclean.) Thank you, Maybe use %posttrans? Kevin Kofler -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
Re: F12: NetworkManager-Firefox: Firefox is currently in offline mode and can't browse the Web
On Mon, 2009-11-30 at 10:05 +, Steven Whitehouse wrote: > Hi, > > On Mon, 2009-11-30 at 09:55 +, Terry Barnaby wrote: > > On 11/29/2009 11:30 PM, Dan Williams wrote: > > > On Sat, 2009-11-28 at 09:10 +, Terry Barnaby wrote: > > >> On 11/28/2009 08:35 AM, Rakesh Pandit wrote: > > >>> 2009/11/28 Terry Barnaby wrote: > > If the NetworkManager service is running, but not managing the current > > network connection, then Firefox starts up in offline mode. > > > > Is this a bug in NetworkManager or Firefox ? > > > > >>> > > >>> This is odd behaviour and needs to be fixed. I would suggest open up a > > >>> bug against firefox. I know one can change > > >>> toolkit.networkmanager.disable preference, but it is a PITA for our > > >>> users. One of use cases is: Sometime network manager does not connect > > >>> me via my CDMA usb modem (in case signal is weak), but wvdial does and > > >>> once I switch from NM to wvdial, my firefox gets to offline mode, > > >>> which I don't expect it to as I am connected. > > >>> > > >> Ok, filed as: 542078 > > > > > > NetworkManager is intended to control the default internet connection. > > > If NetworkManager cannot control the default internet connection, then > > > you may not want to use NetworkManager. > > > > > > In your case, you're using a mobile broadband device. The real bug here > > > is that for whatever reason, NM/MM aren't connecting your modem, and we > > > should follow up on that bug instead. > > > > > > Dan > > > > > I am not using a mobile broadband device. The network connection my systems > > use is not just the Internet it is a local network LAN connection that also > > serves the internet. Most of my systems use a local network server which > > provides NIS, /home and /data using NFS and VPN etc. I normally use the > > service "network" to bring up wired or wireless networking for this. Fedora, > > by default, uses NetworkManager to manage all network devices though. I use > > the service "network" as, for some reason, the NetworkManager service is > > started after the netfs and other services are started. Is there a reason > > for this ?? > > > > I can obviously turn of the NetworkManager service, which I have done on the > > desktop systems. However, I also have a few Laptops that can roam. In F11 > > and > > before I have used the network and NetworkManager services. When the laptop > > boots away from home, the "network" service fails and I can then use the > > NetworkManager service to connect to whatever wireless network or G3 > > network is > > available. > > > > It does seem sensible to me that the "system" provides applications with > > info > > on if the network is up (not just the Internet). The NetworkManager service > > seems the place to do this and it looks like the applications are starting > > to use it for this purpose. > > So maybe a generic NM "isNetworkUp()" API call is called for ? > > > > I think the NetworkManager issue is a confusion between control and > monitoring. I've mentioned this before in another context, but there > seems to be no reason why these two things should be considered the > same. Just because NetworkManager isn't controlling a device doesn't > mean that it shouldn't monitor the up/down state of the device and > update the applications' idea of the network being up/down accordingly, NetworkManager provides a consistent API for applications to use to interogate the networking situation of the machine. This includes a consistent configuration mechanism and information about the connections in-use, including a nice "human name". It includes a per-connection identifier that applications can (and do!) use to perform specific operations when connection state changes. Part of the problem is that if these aren't provided, you loose quite a lot of functionality and usefulness. You can't match up current network config with specific configuration information stored on-disk because there's nothing keeping track of what's happening on the system. It's a lot harder to, say, have Evolution only check your mail when your VPN is up. There's no tracking of connection dependencies so that if say your mobile broadband device goes down and you've got a VPN up, the VPN stays up and just hangs. Or tie VPN and other connections together so that they come up and go down at the same time. There's no consistent tracking of connection time and data usage which NM will soon be doing. That's just the start. I'd assert that good, useful monitoring *requires* a lot of information that only the controller knows. The problem is that in the old system, there was no controller; ifup/ifdown are basically like terrorist cells upon pain of death have almost no knowledge of anything else on the system. Which is why NM attempts to tie a lot of that together in one central location, including configuration, control, and monitoring. Yes, it's harder for experts to create a world-dominating robot
Re: Ubuntu Xorg Guru calls for help. Was Re: Fedora 12 Graphics Issues: Cancel F13 and concentrate on fixing F12 ?
Linuxguy123 wrote: > http://www.linux-magazine.com/Online/News/Ubuntu-X.org-Guru-Calls-for- Desktop-Help They did exactly what some people suggested we do in this thread: stick with an old X.org X11 release and try to fix its bugs on their own. You can see the result in the article and its links. (Hint: it didn't quite work out…) Following upstream like Fedora does clearly looks like the better strategy to me. Kevin Kofler -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
Re: RPM installation order
On Mon, Nov 30, 2009 at 10:55 AM, Mamoru Tasaka
wrote:
> Ah, rather gcl package has "Requires: gcl-selinux = %{version}-%{release}",
> so currently I am not sure what you want.
Ah, right, I'd forgotten that we did that to satisfy the need for a
couple of other packages to have access to the policy without dragging
gcl itself in. So all I need to do is move the fixfiles invocation to
the main package's %post. Thank you!
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http://www.jamezone.org/
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Re: RPM installation order
Mamoru Tasaka wrote, at 12/01/2009 02:51 AM +9:00:
Jerry James wrote, at 12/01/2009 02:29 AM +9:00:
I'm looking into a gcl bug (I maintain gcl):
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=541050.
The problem appears to be that the order of RPM installation is
unpredictable. There is a subpackage, gcl-selinux, which provides
policy files for use by other packages that build executables with
gcl. That package installs a policy, gcl.pp, and then does this in
%post:
/usr/sbin/semodule -i %{_datadir}/selinux/packages/gcl/gcl.pp || :
/sbin/fixfiles -R gcl restore || :
This works great when the main gcl package is installed first,
followed by the gcl-selinux package. However, sometimes RPM installs
them in the other order.
Umm, I checked F-12 gcl.spec and there is no such Requires relation
between two packages (i.e. -selinux subpackage does not have
"Requires: %{name} = %{version}-%{release}" or so), so it is natural
that the order is inpredictable.
Ah, rather gcl package has "Requires: gcl-selinux = %{version}-%{release}",
so currently I am not sure what you want.
Mamoru
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Re: RPM installation order
Jerry James wrote, at 12/01/2009 02:29 AM +9:00:
I'm looking into a gcl bug (I maintain gcl):
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=541050.
The problem appears to be that the order of RPM installation is
unpredictable. There is a subpackage, gcl-selinux, which provides
policy files for use by other packages that build executables with
gcl. That package installs a policy, gcl.pp, and then does this in
%post:
/usr/sbin/semodule -i %{_datadir}/selinux/packages/gcl/gcl.pp || :
/sbin/fixfiles -R gcl restore || :
This works great when the main gcl package is installed first,
followed by the gcl-selinux package. However, sometimes RPM installs
them in the other order.
Umm, I checked F-12 gcl.spec and there is no such Requires relation
between two packages (i.e. -selinux subpackage does not have
"Requires: %{name} = %{version}-%{release}" or so), so it is natural
that the order is inpredictable.
Regards,
Mamoru
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Re: RPM installation order
On Mon, Nov 30, 2009 at 10:29:31 -0700, Jerry James wrote: > > This works great when the main gcl package is installed first, > followed by the gcl-selinux package. However, sometimes RPM installs > them in the other order. When that happens, the fixfiles invocation > fails because the main package hasn't been installed yet. Then, once > the main package is installed, the saved gcl image has the wrong > SELinux type, leading to the symptoms described in that bug. > > Is there a canonical way of dealing with such issues? I need to run > fixfiles after BOTH gcl and gcl-selinux have been installed. How can > I ensure that? (I suppose I could invoke fixfiles in %post scripts > for both gcl and gcl-selinux, so that whichever one runs last does the > right thing, but that seems unclean.) Thank you, Requires(Pre) might solve your problem. If gcl-selinux Requires(Pre):gcl and gcl-selinux runs the fixfiles script in postinstall, I think you will be guaranteed that both gcl-selinux and gcl are installed when the script runs. -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
RPM installation order
I'm looking into a gcl bug (I maintain gcl):
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=541050.
The problem appears to be that the order of RPM installation is
unpredictable. There is a subpackage, gcl-selinux, which provides
policy files for use by other packages that build executables with
gcl. That package installs a policy, gcl.pp, and then does this in
%post:
/usr/sbin/semodule -i %{_datadir}/selinux/packages/gcl/gcl.pp || :
/sbin/fixfiles -R gcl restore || :
This works great when the main gcl package is installed first,
followed by the gcl-selinux package. However, sometimes RPM installs
them in the other order. When that happens, the fixfiles invocation
fails because the main package hasn't been installed yet. Then, once
the main package is installed, the saved gcl image has the wrong
SELinux type, leading to the symptoms described in that bug.
Is there a canonical way of dealing with such issues? I need to run
fixfiles after BOTH gcl and gcl-selinux have been installed. How can
I ensure that? (I suppose I could invoke fixfiles in %post scripts
for both gcl and gcl-selinux, so that whichever one runs last does the
right thing, but that seems unclean.) Thank you,
--
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http://www.jamezone.org/
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Re: livecds in the future
Trying to respond to several points that were raised in this thread... 1. If live cds are as indispensable as you claim they are, it will be relatively straightforward to produce them for F13 simply by omitting the big items that will push us over the cd size limit, ie OpenOffice, example content, and whatever else we decide to fill the new space with. But the bigger image will be the one that we try to make as good as possible, and the CD-sized offspring will be a cut down version with gaps. 2. More download choices are not a part of the solution, but a part of the problem... We already have the problem that people are choosing to download the DVD just because DVD > CD; but unlike the spins, the DVD is not a designed product at all. If we need to make a cd-sized alternative available, it should be marked clearly as a secondary option on the download page, e.g. hidden behind a 'Can't boot USB ?' question... 3. 'Chain-booting' from cd to usb sounds like an elegant way to avoid the 'Can't boot USB' problem. Did we figure out how Mandriva are doing it ? Matthias -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
Re: Fedora 12 Graphics Issues: Cancel F13 and concentrate on fixing F12 ?
On 11/30/2009 05:05 PM, Peter Jones wrote: On 11/27/2009 04:56 PM, Felix Miata wrote: Physics don't. A two dimensional screen will never be able to more than simulate 3D. 3D requires more dead dinosaurs, coal and/or other sources of electrical energy than 2D to produce. This isn't necessarily the case, in theory or in practice. I used an ammeter to do some measurements of this on my T41[1] several releases ago[2], and in general compositing the desktop using 3d hardware used slightly less energy than running with desktop effects turned off. Which is to say, if the 3d hardware can do something easily, it may use more energy for the GPU than using 2d acceleration only, but that translates to less energy doesn't necessarily mean more power for the whole system. If you do more complex 3d things, yes, it will take more power, but the act of using the 3d hardware instead of the 2d hardware can be more efficient in terms of energy. [1] that's 2373-9FU for those wondering. [2] a bit after compiz came into existance Whilst I am sure you are right, I do think that the current generation of Graphics chips used in computers are too power hungry. Just look at the heatsinks and fans on a lot of desktop graphics boards or how hot the integrated graphics chipsets get... Most of this power usage seems to stem from the additional 3D circuitry within them and is used even if the 3D features are not. Although I do need 3D on some of my systems (for CAD/CAM not bling) I do try and look for a simple, low power graphics systems for those that don't and this I find difficult to do as most chipsets have gone 3D. I expect that graphics chipset manufacturers may start to improve power usage now with more focus on power usage and the fact that processors can consume less than the graphics chipsets used, we will see, but I would lament the day when a desktop GUI system relied on having 3D support. -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
Re: example content
On Tue, 2009-11-24 at 22:39 -0600, Mel Chua wrote: > Because it's brainstorm time and I'm procrastinating on FUDCon > accounting... ;) > > * FWN podcast, > http://www.braincache.de/wp/2009/11/15/fwn-fedora-weekly-news-201. > * the http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-music-list might > have more suggestions / be able to come up with something audio-related > * SVG versions of the one-page release notes are at > http://duffy.fedorapeople.org/collateral/release%20notes/f12/ and might > make a nice "hey, try Inkscape" prompter. > * GIMP-transformed images of Fedora contributors alongside their > originals and some "how we did this" notes - see the "Do It With > Fedora!" section in the middle of > http://duffy.fedorapeople.org/temp/woot/page1.png for inspiration > * https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Statistics in spreadsheet format adding > up total downloads > * a screencast on how to use http://fedoraproject.org/join-fedora to go > from "I'm interested!" to "I have a FAS account and am posting an intro > on a mailing list?" or "I'm on IRC!" or something of the sort. > Those are nice suggestions, thanks a lot. -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
Re: example content
On Mon, 2009-11-23 at 14:15 -0500, Matthias Clasen wrote: > Hey, > > one change we are planning to make to the desktop spin in F13 is to go > from targeting a cd to targeting a 1g usb stick. Why 1GB? It seemed to me, when discussing this earlier on this list, that everyone agreed that 2GB made much more sense. Thanks, David -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
Re: Fedora 12 Graphics Issues: Cancel F13 and concentrate on fixing F12 ?
On 11/27/2009 04:56 PM, Felix Miata wrote: > Physics don't. A two dimensional screen will never be able to more than > simulate 3D. 3D requires more dead dinosaurs, coal and/or other sources of > electrical energy than 2D to produce. This isn't necessarily the case, in theory or in practice. I used an ammeter to do some measurements of this on my T41[1] several releases ago[2], and in general compositing the desktop using 3d hardware used slightly less energy than running with desktop effects turned off. Which is to say, if the 3d hardware can do something easily, it may use more energy for the GPU than using 2d acceleration only, but that translates to less energy doesn't necessarily mean more power for the whole system. If you do more complex 3d things, yes, it will take more power, but the act of using the 3d hardware instead of the 2d hardware can be more efficient in terms of energy. [1] that's 2373-9FU for those wondering. [2] a bit after compiz came into existance -- Peter I'd like to start a religion. That's where the money is. -- L. Ron Hubbard to Lloyd Eshbach, in 1949; quoted by Eshbach in _Over My Shoulder_. -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
Re: Fedora 12: Emacs is not for software development
On Mon, 2009-11-30 at 11:26 -0500, Casey Dahlin wrote: > On 11/28/2009 10:23 AM, Kevin Kofler wrote: > > Debayan Banerjee wrote: > >> Well one does need an editor for development. Assuming vim and emacs > >> have roughly equal user bases, chosing emacs over vim for the > >> distribution shows Fedora packagers' personal preference too. I guess > >> both vim and emacs should be available. > > > > Both vim and Emacs are obsolescent and hard to use. Kate FTW! > > > > Kevin Kofler > > > > On the contrary, they're both quite easy to use. They're just hard to learn. > This is intentional. If you're smart enough to use a real man's editor then > you're smart enough to send patches to other real men who are writing real > men's software. We don't actually want just /anyone/ writing code, do we? > (well, Java people do, but its impossible to do anything useful in Java > anyway. That's why you need a gigantic resource-intensive IDE to do > everything for you). > > --CJD > I guess all the female hackers are just SOL? -- Jesse Keating Fedora -- Freedom² is a feature! identi.ca: http://identi.ca/jkeating signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
Re: memset bugs.
On 11/30/2009 10:39 AM, Peter Jones wrote: > On 11/27/2009 02:25 PM, Casey Dahlin wrote: >> On 11/27/2009 06:03 AM, Richard W.M. Jones wrote: >>> On Fri, Nov 27, 2009 at 03:28:19AM -0500, Gregory Maxwell wrote: A literal zero prior to preprocessing is either a bug, or some kind of dead- code causing place-holder. >>> >>> Not necessarily .. the C code itself may be generated from >>> something else. >>> >>> Rich. >>> >> >> In which case the C code is no longer "source" and should be excluded >> from the analysis. > > No, when swig (or whatever) produces bad code, we still want the compiler to > identify it and toss it. It's then up to the packager to realize it's swig > producing the bad code, but it isn't magically good code that doesn't result > in real bugs. > The compiler isn't doing these checks, but point taken. On a tangent, what of these checks if any should be put into the compiler? Compile-time bounds checking of library functions is kind of "magical" and un-C-like, but its not unprecedented (printf argument checking for example). --CJD -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
Re: Fedora 12: Emacs is not for software development
On 11/28/2009 10:23 AM, Kevin Kofler wrote: > Debayan Banerjee wrote: >> Well one does need an editor for development. Assuming vim and emacs >> have roughly equal user bases, chosing emacs over vim for the >> distribution shows Fedora packagers' personal preference too. I guess >> both vim and emacs should be available. > > Both vim and Emacs are obsolescent and hard to use. Kate FTW! > > Kevin Kofler > On the contrary, they're both quite easy to use. They're just hard to learn. This is intentional. If you're smart enough to use a real man's editor then you're smart enough to send patches to other real men who are writing real men's software. We don't actually want just /anyone/ writing code, do we? (well, Java people do, but its impossible to do anything useful in Java anyway. That's why you need a gigantic resource-intensive IDE to do everything for you). --CJD -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
Re: orphaning dblatex
Neal Becker wrote: I no longer wish to maintain dblatex. Any takers? I can if none of the co-maintainers want it. -J -- in your fear, seek only peace in your fear, seek only love -d. bowie -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
Re: Looking for testers: RPM 4.8 pre-release snapshots available
On 11/27/2009 03:05 AM, Panu Matilainen wrote: > For an idea what to expect, see the draft release notes at > http://rpm.org/wiki/Releases/4.8.0 I notice that explicit ordering syntax that doesn't trigger a strict "requires" isn't on this list. It's really something we need sooner rather than later, and it's been requested by many people for quite some time now. What needs to be done to get this prioritized? There is a mounting set of features we're implementing parts of very poorly because of the lack of this functionality. -- Peter I'd like to start a religion. That's where the money is. -- L. Ron Hubbard to Lloyd Eshbach, in 1949; quoted by Eshbach in _Over My Shoulder_. -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
Re: 190 packages with .la file(s)
On Mon, Nov 30, 2009 at 01:25:08PM +0100, Pierre-Yves wrote: > On Mon, 2009-11-30 at 13:12 +0100, Mathieu Bridon (bochecha) wrote: > > > sugar-base-0.86.0-1.fc12.x86_64 : Base Sugar library > > > > I'm co-maintaining it, so I'll try to have a look at this one. > > I'm just pointing out this : > """Note that if you are updating a library in a stable release (not > devel) and the package already contains *.la files, removing the *.la > files should be treated as an API/ABI change -- ie: Removing them > changes the interface that the library gives to the rest of the world > and should not be undertaken lightly.""" > source: > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Packaging/Guidelines#Packaging_Static_Libraries > The intention here was for people to fix things in rawhide and be cautious in released versions of Fedora. Breaking things in rawhide and then patching to fix them is acceptable. The most common needed fix is likely patching plugin loaders to use a plugin name without extension rather than hardcoding PLUGINNAME.la in. -Toshio pgp4LB1DFLZaO.pgp Description: PGP signature -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
Re: memset bugs.
On 11/27/2009 02:25 PM, Casey Dahlin wrote: > On 11/27/2009 06:03 AM, Richard W.M. Jones wrote: >> On Fri, Nov 27, 2009 at 03:28:19AM -0500, Gregory Maxwell wrote: >>> A literal zero prior to preprocessing is either a bug, or some kind >>> of dead- >>> code causing place-holder. >> >> Not necessarily .. the C code itself may be generated from >> something else. >> >> Rich. >> > > In which case the C code is no longer "source" and should be excluded > from the analysis. No, when swig (or whatever) produces bad code, we still want the compiler to identify it and toss it. It's then up to the packager to realize it's swig producing the bad code, but it isn't magically good code that doesn't result in real bugs. -- Peter I'd like to start a religion. That's where the money is. -- L. Ron Hubbard to Lloyd Eshbach, in 1949; quoted by Eshbach in _Over My Shoulder_. -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
rawhide report: 20091130 changes
Compose started at Mon Nov 30 08:15:20 UTC 2009 Broken deps for i386 -- anjal-0.1.0-1.fc13.i686 requires libevolution-mail-shared.so.0 anjal-0.1.0-1.fc13.i686 requires libefilterbar.so.0 blacs-mpich2-1.1-33.fc12.i686 requires libmpich.so.1.1 cluster-snmp-0.16.1-2.fc12.i686 requires libnetsnmp.so.15 dx-4.4.4-11.fc12.2.i686 requires libnetcdf.so.4 dx-libs-4.4.4-11.fc12.2.i686 requires libnetcdf.so.4 evolution-exchange-2.28.0-1.fc12.i686 requires libexchange-storage-1.2.so.3 frei0r-plugins-1.1.22-3.fc12.i686 requires libcvaux.so.2 frei0r-plugins-1.1.22-3.fc12.i686 requires libml.so.2 frei0r-plugins-1.1.22-3.fc12.i686 requires libcv.so.2 frei0r-plugins-1.1.22-3.fc12.i686 requires libcxcore.so.2 frei0r-plugins-1.1.22-3.fc12.i686 requires libhighgui.so.2 galeon-2.0.7-19.fc13.i686 requires gecko-libs = 0:1.9.1.5 hulahop-0.6.0-2.fc12.i686 requires xulrunner-python hulahop-0.6.0-2.fc12.i686 requires libpyxpcom.so ifstat-1.1-12.fc12.i686 requires libnetsnmp.so.15 inksmoto-0.7.0-1.rc1.fc13.noarch requires /bin/python jaxodraw-latex-2.0.1-3.fc13.noarch requires tex(texmf) kst-fits-1.8.0-3.fc12.i686 requires cfitsio = 0:3.140 kst-netcdf-1.8.0-3.fc12.i686 requires libnetcdf.so.4 kst-netcdf-1.8.0-3.fc12.i686 requires libnetcdf_c++.so.4 maniadrive-1.2-18.fc12.i686 requires libphp5-5.3.0.so maniadrive-track-editor-1.2-18.fc12.i686 requires libphp5-5.3.0.so monodevelop-debugger-mdb-2.1.0-1.fc12.i686 requires mono(MonoDevelop.Debugger) = 0:2.1.0.0 monodevelop-debugger-mdb-2.1.0-1.fc12.i686 requires mono(MonoDevelop.Core) = 0:2.1.0.0 monodevelop-debugger-mdb-2.1.0-1.fc12.i686 requires mono(MonoDevelop.AspNet) = 0:2.1.0.0 mrpt-apps-0.7.1-0.1.20090818svn1148.fc12.i686 requires libcv.so.2 mrpt-apps-0.7.1-0.1.20090818svn1148.fc12.i686 requires libcxcore.so.2 mrpt-apps-0.7.1-0.1.20090818svn1148.fc12.i686 requires libhighgui.so.2 mrpt-core-0.7.1-0.1.20090818svn1148.fc12.i686 requires libcv.so.2 mrpt-core-0.7.1-0.1.20090818svn1148.fc12.i686 requires libcxcore.so.2 mrpt-core-0.7.1-0.1.20090818svn1148.fc12.i686 requires libhighgui.so.2 nagios-plugins-snmp-disk-proc-1.2-6.fc12.i686 requires libnetsnmp.so.15 ncview-1.93c-6.fc12.i686 requires libnetcdf.so.4 php-facedetect-1.0.0-2.fc12.i686 requires libcv.so.2 php-facedetect-1.0.0-2.fc12.i686 requires libcvaux.so.2 php-facedetect-1.0.0-2.fc12.i686 requires libcxcore.so.2 php-facedetect-1.0.0-2.fc12.i686 requires libhighgui.so.2 php-pecl-gmagick-1.0.2b1-3.fc11.i586 requires php(zend-abi) = 0:20060613 php-pecl-gmagick-1.0.2b1-3.fc11.i586 requires php(api) = 0:20041225 player-2.1.1-13.fc12.i686 requires libml.so.2 player-2.1.1-13.fc12.i686 requires libcvaux.so.2 player-2.1.1-13.fc12.i686 requires libcv.so.2 player-2.1.1-13.fc12.i686 requires libcxcore.so.2 player-2.1.1-13.fc12.i686 requires libhighgui.so.2 raydium-1.2-18.fc12.i686 requires libphp5-5.3.0.so rubygem-activeldap-1.2.0-3.fc12.noarch requires rubygem(gettext_activerecord) = 0:2.0.4 rubygem-activeldap-1.2.0-3.fc12.noarch requires rubygem(gettext) = 0:2.0.4 rubygem-activeldap-1.2.0-3.fc12.noarch requires rubygem(locale) = 0:2.0.4 scalapack-mpich2-1.7.5-7.fc12.i686 requires libmpich.so.1.1 Broken deps for x86_64 -- anjal-0.1.0-1.fc13.x86_64 requires libevolution-mail-shared.so.0()(64bit) anjal-0.1.0-1.fc13.x86_64 requires libefilterbar.so.0()(64bit) blacs-mpich2-1.1-33.fc12.x86_64 requires libmpich.so.1.1()(64bit) cluster-snmp-0.16.1-2.fc12.x86_64 requires libnetsnmp.so.15()(64bit) dx-4.4.4-11.fc12.2.x86_64 requires libnetcdf.so.4()(64bit) dx-libs-4.4.4-11.fc12.2.i686 requires libnetcdf.so.4 dx-libs-4.4.4-11.fc12.2.x86_64 requires libnetcdf.so.4()(64bit) evolution-exchange-2.28.0-1.fc12.x86_64 requires libexchange-storage-1.2.so.3()(64bit) frei0r-plugins-1.1.22-3.fc12.x86_64 requires libml.so.2()(64bit) frei0r-plugins-1.1.22-3.fc12.x86_64 requires libcv.so.2()(64bit) frei0r-plugins-1.1.22-3.fc12.x86_64 requires libcxcore.so.2()(64bit) frei0r-plugins-1.1.22-3.fc12.x86_64 requires libcvaux.so.2()(64bit) frei0r-plugins-1.1.22-3.fc12.x86_64 requires libhighgui.so.2()(64bit) galeon-2.0.7-19.fc13.x86_64 requires gecko-libs = 0:1.9.1.5 hulahop-0.6.0-2.fc12.x86_64 requires xulrunner-python hulahop-0.6.0-2.fc12.x86_64 requires libpyxpcom.so()(64bit) ifstat-1.1-12.fc12.x86_64 requires libnetsnmp.so.15()(64bit) inksmoto-0.7.0-1.rc1.fc13.noarch requires /bin/python jaxodraw-latex-2
Re: Fedora 12 x86 DVD images
On 11/28/2009 10:39 AM, Roberto Ragusa wrote: > Sir Gallantmon wrote: > >> Why not label it "x86_32" instead of i386? That is far less confusing >> and illustrates that it is 32-bit on the x86 architecture, since x86_64 >> says it is 64-bit on x86 architecture. > > Because x86_32 is not an architecture name. You are just creating it from > x86_64. > > 32 bit is i386 or IA32. > 64 bit is x86_64 or AMD64 > > (BTW, I would have preferred AMD64 to be more used for 64 bit, as AMD > should be given credit for the creation of the architecture, in contrast > to Intel which gave us the disaster called IA64). > AMD64 is a subset of x86_64, not an equivalent. The equivalent to AMD64 from the Intel side is EM64T. There's certainly a few minor niggling differences between the two architecture-wise, but we don't bias toward either and thus shouldn't name either. --CJD -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
Re: rawhide report: 20091128 changes
Le 30/11/2009 14:09, Rex Dieter a écrit : > Nicolas Chauvet wrote: > >> 2009/11/28 Rex Dieter : >>> Rawhide Report wrote: >>> Compose started at Sat Nov 28 08:15:06 UTC 2009 Broken deps for i386 >>> kipi-plugins-0.8.0-3.fc13.i686 requires libcxcore.so.2 kipi-plugins-0.8.0-3.fc13.i686 requires libcvaux.so.2 kipi-plugins-0.8.0-3.fc13.i686 requires libcv.so.2 kipi-plugins-0.8.0-3.fc13.i686 requires libhighgui.so.2 >>> >>> Looks like an ABI-breaking opencv landed. ;( >> This ABI bump was scheduled from this bug: >> https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=530717 >> packagers are expected to rebuild their package. > > I was just pointing out that packagers should expect to be notified of such > things (without having to wait for broken deps reports), something like > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/PackageMaintainers/MaintainerResponsibility#Notify_others_of_changes_that_may_affect_their_packages > would be nice. > > -- Rex > My mistake, i should have updated the ticket as soon as i have rebuilt the package. Maintainers concerned were already notified of the upcoming ABI bump in the ticket (well, looks like we missed you). best regards, H. -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
Re: 190 packages with .la file(s)
On Mon, 2009-11-30 at 15:03 +0200, Andy Shevchenko wrote:
> > The list being:
> I'd like to see _sources_ (the list should be smaller as I guess).
> And please sort it :-)
If I run:
for i in $(repoquery --disablerepo=rpmfusion\* -f "*.la"
--qf="%{name}.%{arch}" | grep "x86_64" | sort | uniq); do repoquery -s
$i; done | sort | uniq
I retrieve this list of 80 source rpm (excluding the mingw32-):
alsa-lib-1.0.21-3.fc12.src.rpm
apr-1.3.9-3.fc12.src.rpm
apr-util-1.3.9-2.fc12.src.rpm
arts-1.5.10-8.fc12.src.rpm
babl-0.1.0-4.fc12.src.rpm
banshee-1.5.1-3.fc12.src.rpm
basket-1.0.3.1-6.fc12.src.rpm
bochs-2.3.8-0.8.git04387139e3b.fc12.src.rpm
cfengine-2.2.10-3.fc12.src.rpm
ctapi-cyberjack-3.3.0-7.fc12.src.rpm
eog-2.28.1-1.fc12.src.rpm
evolution-exchange-2.28.0-1.fc12.src.rpm
exo-0.3.105-1.fc12.src.rpm
flumotion-0.4.2-10.fc12.src.rpm
freehdl-0.0.7-2.fc12.src.rpm
gambas2-2.18.0-1.fc12.src.rpm
gamin-0.1.10-5.fc12.src.rpm
gdesklets-0.36.1-7.fc12.src.rpm
gedit-2.28.0-1.fc12.src.rpm
ggobi-2.1.7-3.fc12.src.rpm
ghostscript-8.70-1.fc12.src.rpm
globus-xio-gsi-driver-0.6-3.fc12.src.rpm
globus-xio-popen-driver-0.2-4.fc12.src.rpm
gnash-0.9.0-0.6.20090809bzr11401.fc12.src.rpm
gnome-do-0.8.2-4.fc12.src.rpm
gnote-0.6.2-1.fc12.src.rpm
gnuradio-3.2.2-1.fc12.src.rpm
GraphicsMagick-1.3.7-1.fc12.src.rpm
gtkglextmm-1.2.0-10.fc12.src.rpm
gtranslator-1.9.6-2.fc12.src.rpm
hamster-applet-2.28.1-1.fc12.src.rpm
hdf-4.2r4-4.fc12.src.rpm
ImageMagick-6.5.4.7-3.fc12.src.rpm
imlib2-1.4.2-5.fc12.src.rpm
jabberd-2.2.8-5.fc12.src.rpm
jpilot-1.6.2-3.fc12.src.rpm
k3b-1.0.5-10.fc12.src.rpm
kbibtex-0.2.2-18.fc12.src.rpm
kdebase3-3.5.10-14.fc12.src.rpm
kdegames3-3.5.10-6.fc12.src.rpm
kdelibs3-3.5.10-19.fc12.src.rpm
kdepim3-3.5.10-2.fc12.src.rpm
kdetv-0.8.9-13.fc12.src.rpm
kdevelop-3.5.4-6.fc12.src.rpm
kdewebdev-3.5.10-4.fc12.src.rpm
kdissert-1.0.7-6.fc12.src.rpm
kerry-0.2.1-9.fc12.src.rpm
kflickr-0.9.1-5.fc12.src.rpm
kftpgrabber-0.8.1-11.fc12.src.rpm
kguitar-0.5.1-8.926svn.fc12.src.rpm
kio_sword-0.3-11.fc12.src.rpm
kmymoney2-1.0.1-1.fc12.src.rpm
kmymoney2-aqbanking-1.0-2.fc12.src.rpm
koffice-1.6.3-26.20090306svn.fc12.src.rpm
kshutdown-1.0.1-4.fc12.src.rpm
kst-1.8.0-3.fc12.src.rpm
libcgroup-0.34-2.fc12.src.rpm
libstatgrab-0.16-3.fc12.src.rpm
libxml2-2.7.6-1.fc12.src.rpm
neon-0.29.0-3.fc12.src.rpm
nfs-utils-lib-1.1.4-8.fc12.src.rpm
openldap-2.4.18-5.fc12.src.rpm
oprofile-0.9.5-4.fc12.src.rpm
pinball-0.3.1-15.fc12.src.rpm
poker2d-1.7.3-3.fc12.src.rpm
polyester3-1.0.4-3.fc12.src.rpm
pyclutter-0.9.2-1.fc12.src.rpm
python-xklavier-0.2-2.fc12.src.rpm
quagga-0.99.12-4.fc12.src.rpm
showimg-0.9.5-26.fc12.src.rpm
sim-0.9.5-0.21.20090821svn2902rev.fc12.src.rpm
sssd-0.7.1-1.fc12.src.rpm
subversion-1.6.5-2.fc12.src.rpm
sugar-base-0.86.0-1.fc12.src.rpm
sugar-datastore-0.86.1-1.fc12.src.rpm
sugar-toolkit-0.86.2-1.fc12.src.rpm
synce-kde-0.9.1-4.fc11.src.rpm
taxipilot-0.9.2-9.fc12.src.rpm
tsclient-2.0.2-5.fc12.src.rpm
xfce4-session-4.6.1-3.fc12.src.rpm
Pierre
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Re: rawhide report: 20091128 changes
2009/11/30 Rex Dieter : > Nicolas Chauvet wrote: > >> 2009/11/28 Rex Dieter : >>> Rawhide Report wrote: >>> Compose started at Sat Nov 28 08:15:06 UTC 2009 Broken deps for i386 >>> kipi-plugins-0.8.0-3.fc13.i686 requires libcxcore.so.2 kipi-plugins-0.8.0-3.fc13.i686 requires libcvaux.so.2 kipi-plugins-0.8.0-3.fc13.i686 requires libcv.so.2 kipi-plugins-0.8.0-3.fc13.i686 requires libhighgui.so.2 >>> >>> Looks like an ABI-breaking opencv landed. ;( >> This ABI bump was scheduled from this bug: >> https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=530717 >> packagers are expected to rebuild their package. > > I was just pointing out that packagers should expect to be notified of such > things (without having to wait for broken deps reports), something like > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/PackageMaintainers/MaintainerResponsibility#Notify_others_of_changes_that_may_affect_their_packages > would be nice. That's why every "primary" maintainer was cc'd to the bug. But indeed, for some reason, you was missing from the bug as the kipi-plugins maintainer. -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
Re: rawhide report: 20091128 changes
Nicolas Chauvet wrote: > 2009/11/28 Rex Dieter : >> Rawhide Report wrote: >> >>> Compose started at Sat Nov 28 08:15:06 UTC 2009 >>> >>> Broken deps for i386 >> >>> kipi-plugins-0.8.0-3.fc13.i686 requires libcxcore.so.2 >>> kipi-plugins-0.8.0-3.fc13.i686 requires libcvaux.so.2 >>> kipi-plugins-0.8.0-3.fc13.i686 requires libcv.so.2 >>> kipi-plugins-0.8.0-3.fc13.i686 requires libhighgui.so.2 >> >> Looks like an ABI-breaking opencv landed. ;( > This ABI bump was scheduled from this bug: > https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=530717 > packagers are expected to rebuild their package. I was just pointing out that packagers should expect to be notified of such things (without having to wait for broken deps reports), something like https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/PackageMaintainers/MaintainerResponsibility#Notify_others_of_changes_that_may_affect_their_packages would be nice. -- Rex -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
Re: 190 packages with .la file(s)
On Mon, Nov 30, 2009 at 2:40 PM, Pierre-Yves wrote: >> > Do we have 189 bugs waiting to be filled ? (I filled one this morning) Twice or more less. >> > I guess some of these cannot be changed but I guess some can. >> It's better to do _source_ package list which is probably twice smaller. > They were duplicate in the former list but via repoquery there are no > so, for the whole package collection : > $ repoquery -f "*.la" | wc -l > 281 Again _binaries_! > The list being: I'd like to see _sources_ (the list should be smaller as I guess). And please sort it :-) > gtkglextmm-devel-0:1.2.0-10.fc12.x86_64 > gtkglextmm-devel-0:1.2.0-10.fc12.i686 This is from gtkglextmm package I beleive. -- With Best Regards, Andy Shevchenko -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
Re: 190 packages with .la file(s)
On Mon, Nov 30, 2009 at 01:40:38PM +0100, Pierre-Yves wrote: > On Mon, 2009-11-30 at 14:03 +0200, Andy Shevchenko wrote: > > On Mon, Nov 30, 2009 at 1:56 PM, Pierre-Yves wrote: > mingw32-zlib-0:1.2.3-19.fc12.noarch All mingw32- RPMs containing DLLs are required to ship the .la file in order that libtool can work correctly on Win32 http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Packaging/MinGW#Libraries_.28DLLs.29 Regards, Daniel -- |: Red Hat, Engineering, London -o- http://people.redhat.com/berrange/ :| |: http://libvirt.org -o- http://virt-manager.org -o- http://ovirt.org :| |: http://autobuild.org -o- http://search.cpan.org/~danberr/ :| |: GnuPG: 7D3B9505 -o- F3C9 553F A1DA 4AC2 5648 23C1 B3DF F742 7D3B 9505 :| -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
Re: 190 packages with .la file(s)
On Mon, 2009-11-30 at 14:03 +0200, Andy Shevchenko wrote: > On Mon, Nov 30, 2009 at 1:56 PM, Pierre-Yves wrote: > > Looking at: > > $ yum whatprovides "*.la" |grep x86_64 |wc -l > > 190 > > surprises me a bit. > > > > Do we have 189 bugs waiting to be filled ? (I filled one this morning) > > I guess some of these cannot be changed but I guess some can. > It's better to do _source_ package list which is probably twice smaller. They were duplicate in the former list but via repoquery there are no so, for the whole package collection : $ repoquery -f "*.la" | wc -l 281 $ repoquery -f "*.la" |grep x86_64 |wc -l 182 $ repoquery -f "*.la" |grep noarch| wc -l 48 $ repoquery -f "*.la" |grep i686| wc -l 51 > And exclude kde3 stuff (as far as I remember the plug-in engine in > KDE3 is based on those la-files). That is true and that's why I leave it up to the maintainer to check this list and fix when it's relevant. Best regards, Pierre The list being: evolution-exchange-0:2.28.0-1.fc12.x86_64 mingw32-zlib-0:1.2.3-19.fc12.noarch kdebase3-libs-0:3.5.10-14.fc12.i686 libxml2-python-0:2.7.6-1.fc12.x86_64 subversion-javahl-0:1.6.5-2.fc12.x86_64 mingw32-libsoup-0:2.27.92-2.fc12.noarch ImageMagick-djvu-0:6.5.4.7-3.fc12.x86_64 openldap-servers-sql-0:2.4.18-5.fc12.x86_64 oprofile-jit-0:0.9.5-4.fc12.i686 babl-0:0.1.0-4.fc12.i686 gambas2-gb-pdf-0:2.17.0-1.fc12.x86_64 gambas2-gb-qt-ext-0:2.18.0-1.fc12.x86_64 kdevelop-libs-9:3.5.4-6.fc12.i686 kdewebdev-6:3.5.10-4.fc12.x86_64 gambas2-gb-crypt-0:2.17.0-1.fc12.x86_64 sim-0:0.9.5-0.21.20090821svn2902rev.fc12.x86_64 koffice-kchart-3:1.6.3-26.20090306svn.fc12.x86_64 koffice-filters-3:1.6.3-26.20090306svn.fc12.x86_64 mingw32-SDL-0:1.2.13-8.fc12.noarch gambas2-gb-pdf-0:2.18.0-1.fc12.x86_64 usrp-0:3.2.2-1.fc12.i686 gambas2-gb-qt-0:2.18.0-1.fc12.x86_64 gamin-python-0:0.1.10-5.fc12.x86_64 polyester3-0:1.0.4-3.fc12.x86_64 mingw32-libp11-0:0.2.6-4.fc12.noarch pinball-0:0.3.1-15.fc12.x86_64 gambas2-gb-sdl-sound-0:2.17.0-1.fc12.x86_64 gnome-do-0:0.8.2-4.fc12.x86_64 nfs-utils-lib-0:1.1.4-8.fc12.x86_64 python-gnash-0:0.9.0-0.6.20090809bzr11401.fc12.x86_64 koffice-kugar-3:1.6.3-26.20090306svn.fc12.x86_64 gambas2-gb-option-0:2.18.0-1.fc12.x86_64 imlib2-id3tag-loader-0:1.4.2-5.fc12.x86_64 gambas2-gb-gui-0:2.17.0-1.fc12.x86_64 mingw32-cairo-0:1.8.8-1.fc12.noarch gambas2-gb-net-curl-0:2.18.0-1.fc12.x86_64 mingw32-libxml++-0:2.26.0-3.fc12.noarch mingw32-libsq3-0:20071018-9.fc12.noarch kdewebdev-libs-6:3.5.10-4.fc12.i686 gambas2-gb-xml-0:2.18.0-1.fc12.x86_64 gambas2-gb-sdl-0:2.18.0-1.fc12.x86_64 hamster-applet-0:2.28.1-1.fc12.x86_64 eog-0:2.28.1-1.fc12.x86_64 koffice-kformula-3:1.6.3-26.20090306svn.fc12.x86_64 poker2d-0:1.7.3-3.fc12.x86_64 gambas2-gb-xml-xslt-0:2.18.0-1.fc12.x86_64 kdegames3-0:3.5.10-6.fc12.x86_64 gambas2-gb-qt-opengl-0:2.17.0-1.fc12.x86_64 kbibtex-0:0.2-16.fc12.x86_64 gnote-0:0.6.2-1.fc12.x86_64 oprofile-jit-0:0.9.5-2.fc12.i686 mingw32-libxml2-0:2.7.5-2.fc12.noarch gambas2-gb-gtk-svg-0:2.17.0-1.fc12.x86_64 kdelibs3-0:3.5.10-19.fc12.i686 gambas2-gb-gtk-ext-0:2.18.0-1.fc12.x86_64 mingw32-fontconfig-0:2.6.0-10.fc12.noarch gnuradio-0:3.2.2-1.fc12.i686 mingw32-cairomm-0:1.8.0-4.fc12.noarch quagga-devel-0:0.99.12-4.fc12.x86_64 banshee-0:1.5.1-3.fc12.x86_64 koffice-kpresenter-3:1.6.3-26.20090306svn.fc12.x86_64 gambas2-gb-qt-kde-0:2.17.0-1.fc12.x86_64 xfce4-session-0:4.6.1-3.fc12.i686 koffice-kexi-3:1.6.3-26.20090306svn.fc12.i686 gambas2-gb-image-0:2.18.0-1.fc12.x86_64 kst-netcdf-0:1.8.0-3.fc12.x86_64 gambas2-gb-compress-0:2.18.0-1.fc12.x86_64 subversion-javahl-0:1.6.5-2.fc12.i686 kst-fits-0:1.8.0-3.fc12.x86_64 koffice-filters-3:1.6.3-26.20090306svn.fc12.i686 sssd-0:0.7.1-1.fc12.x86_64 apr-util-devel-0:1.3.9-2.fc12.x86_64 gambas2-gb-db-sqlite3-0:2.17.0-1.fc12.x86_64 mingw32-zfstream-0:20041202-7.fc12.noarch mingw32-gtk2-0:2.18.3-1.fc12.noarch kftpgrabber-0:0.8.1-11.fc12.x86_64 gambas2-gb-v4l-0:2.18.0-1.fc12.x86_64 mingw32-atk-0:1.27.90-1.fc12.noarch mingw32-hunspell-0:1.2.8-11.fc12.noarch freehdl-0:0.0.7-2.fc12.x86_64 python-exo-0:0.3.105-1.fc12.x86_64 gambas2-gb-option-0:2.17.0-1.fc12.x86_64 sugar-toolkit-0:0.86.2-1.fc12.x86_64 gambas2-gb-vb-0:2.18.0-1.fc12.x86_64 gambas2-gb-xml-0:2.17.0-1.fc12.x86_64 showimg-0:0.9.5-26.fc12.i686 babl-0:0.1.0-4.fc12.x86_64 kio_sword-0:0.3-11.fc12.x86_64 kftpgrabber-0:0.8.1-11.fc12.i686 arts-8:1.5.10-8.fc12.x86_64 cfengine-0:2.2.10-3.fc12.x86_64 gambas2-gb-v4l-0:2.17.0-1.fc12.x86_64 gambas2-gb-compress-0:2.17.0-1.fc12.x86_64 koffice-kspread-3:1.6.3-26.20090306svn.fc12.x86_64 apr-util-devel-0:1.3.9-2.fc12.i686 koffice-kivio-3:1.6.3-26.20090306svn.fc12.x86_64 ghostscript-devel-0:8.70-1.fc12.x86_64 xfce4-session-engines-0:4.6.1-3.fc12.x86_64 gambas2-gb-desktop-0:2.18.0-1.fc12.x86_64 mingw32-libssh2-0:1.1-5.fc12.noarch xfce4-session-0:4.6.1-3.fc12.x86_64 quagga-devel-0:0.99.12-4.fc12.i686 gambas2-gb-qt-kde-html-0:2.18.0-1.fc12.x86_64 imlib2-0:1.4.2-5.fc12.i686 kdebase3-0:3.5.10-14.fc12.x86_64 mingw32-pixman-0:0.16.2-1.fc12.noarch mingw32-libltdl-0:1.5.26-14.
Re: Pulseaudio in F12
On Mon, 30 Nov 2009 10:43:10 +, Bastien wrote: > > Notice that the documentation for pa_stream_connect_playback strongly > > recommends passing NULL as volume. > > This looks correct, you're never supposed to restore volume yourself > when using PulseAudio. Which is exactly my fix that went into Audacious 2.2 before: http://cvs.fedoraproject.org/viewvc/devel/audacious-plugins/audacious-plugins-2.2-beta1-pulseaudio.patch?hideattic=0&revision=1.1&view=markup -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
Re: 190 packages with .la file(s)
On Mon, 2009-11-30 at 13:12 +0100, Mathieu Bridon (bochecha) wrote: > > sugar-base-0.86.0-1.fc12.x86_64 : Base Sugar library > > I'm co-maintaining it, so I'll try to have a look at this one. I'm just pointing out this : """Note that if you are updating a library in a stable release (not devel) and the package already contains *.la files, removing the *.la files should be treated as an API/ABI change -- ie: Removing them changes the interface that the library gives to the rest of the world and should not be undertaken lightly.""" source: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Packaging/Guidelines#Packaging_Static_Libraries Thanks, Pierre -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
Re: 190 packages with .la file(s)
Hi PY, On Mon, Nov 30, 2009 at 12:56, Pierre-Yves wrote: > Dear all, > > Looking at: > $ yum whatprovides "*.la" |grep x86_64 |wc -l > 190 > surprises me a bit. > > Do we have 189 bugs waiting to be filled ? (I filled one this morning) > I guess some of these cannot be changed but I guess some can. [snip] > sugar-base-0.86.0-1.fc12.x86_64 : Base Sugar library I'm co-maintaining it, so I'll try to have a look at this one. Thanks for the heads up. -- Mathieu Bridon (bochecha) -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
Re: 190 packages with .la file(s)
On Mon, Nov 30, 2009 at 1:56 PM, Pierre-Yves wrote: > Looking at: > $ yum whatprovides "*.la" |grep x86_64 |wc -l > 190 > surprises me a bit. > > Do we have 189 bugs waiting to be filled ? (I filled one this morning) > I guess some of these cannot be changed but I guess some can. It's better to do _source_ package list which is probably twice smaller. And exclude kde3 stuff (as far as I remember the plug-in engine in KDE3 is based on those la-files). -- With Best Regards, Andy Shevchenko -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
190 packages with .la file(s)
Dear all, Looking at: $ yum whatprovides "*.la" |grep x86_64 |wc -l 190 surprises me a bit. Do we have 189 bugs waiting to be filled ? (I filled one this morning) I guess some of these cannot be changed but I guess some can. Best regards, Pierre Full list is: evolution-exchange-2.28.0-1.fc12.x86_64 : Evolution plugin to interact with MS libxml2-python-2.7.6-1.fc12.x86_64 : Python bindings for the libxml2 library subversion-javahl-1.6.5-2.fc12.x86_64 : JNI bindings to the Subversion libraries ImageMagick-djvu-6.5.4.7-3.fc12.x86_64 : DjVu plugin for ImageMagick openldap-servers-sql-2.4.18-5.fc12.x86_64 : SQL support module for OpenLDAP gambas2-gb-pdf-2.17.0-1.fc12.x86_64 : Gambas2 component package for pdf usrp-3.2.2-1.fc12.x86_64 : Universal Software Radio Peripheral 6:kdewebdev-3.5.10-4.fc12.x86_64 : Web development applications gambas2-gb-crypt-2.17.0-1.fc12.x86_64 : Gambas2 component package for crypt kmymoney2-aqbanking-1.0-2.fc12.x86_64 : Online banking plugin for KMyMoney 3:koffice-kchart-1.6.3-26.20090306svn.fc12.x86_64 : An integrated graph and 3:koffice-filters-1.6.3-26.20090306svn.fc12.x86_64 : Import and Export Filters gamin-python-0.1.10-5.fc12.x86_64 : Python bindings for the gamin library polyester3-1.0.4-3.fc12.x86_64 : A style for KDE3 gambas2-gb-sdl-sound-2.17.0-1.fc12.x86_64 : Gambas2 component package for gnome-do-0.8.2-4.fc12.x86_64 : Quick launch and search nfs-utils-lib-1.1.4-8.fc12.x86_64 : Network File System Support Library python-gnash-0.9.0-0.6.20090809bzr11401.fc12.x86_64 : Gnash Python bindings 3:koffice-kformula-1.6.3-26.20090306svn.fc12.x86_64 : A powerful formula editor imlib2-id3tag-loader-1.4.2-5.fc12.x86_64 : Imlib2 id3tag-loader gambas2-gb-gui-2.17.0-1.fc12.x86_64 : Gambas2 component package for gui hamster-applet-2.28.1-1.fc12.x86_64 : Time tracking applet eog-2.28.1-1.fc12.x86_64 : Eye of GNOME image viewer poker2d-1.7.3-3.fc12.x86_64 : GTK poker client to play on a poker-network server kdegames3-3.5.10-6.fc12.x86_64 : K Desktop Environment 3 - Games not ported to gambas2-gb-qt-opengl-2.17.0-1.fc12.x86_64 : Gambas2 component package for kbibtex-0.2-16.fc12.x86_64 : A BibTeX editor for KDE 9:kdevelop-libs-3.5.4-6.fc12.x86_64 : kdevelop runtime libraries gambas2-gb-gtk-svg-2.17.0-1.fc12.x86_64 : Gambas2 component package for gtk-svg 3:koffice-kugar-1.6.3-26.20090306svn.fc12.x86_64 : A tool for generating kdelibs3-3.5.10-19.fc12.x86_64 : K Desktop Environment 3 - Libraries quagga-devel-0.99.12-4.fc12.x86_64 : Header and object files for quagga banshee-1.5.1-3.fc12.x86_64 : Easily import, manage, and play selections from 3:koffice-kpresenter-1.6.3-26.20090306svn.fc12.x86_64 : A full-featured kst-fits-1.8.0-3.fc12.x86_64 : fits datasource plugin for kst sssd-0.7.1-1.fc12.x86_64 : System Security Services Daemon apr-util-devel-1.3.9-2.fc12.x86_64 : APR utility library development kit gambas2-gb-db-sqlite3-2.17.0-1.fc12.x86_64 : Gambas2 component package for kftpgrabber-0.8.1-11.fc12.x86_64 : FTP client gambas2-gb-option-2.17.0-1.fc12.x86_64 : Gambas2 component package for option sugar-toolkit-0.86.2-1.fc12.x86_64 : Sugar toolkit gambas2-gb-xml-2.17.0-1.fc12.x86_64 : Gambas2 component package for xml babl-0.1.0-4.fc12.x86_64 : A dynamic, any to any, pixel format conversion kio_sword-0.3-11.fc12.x86_64 : A lightweight frontend for the Sword Bible 8:arts-1.5.10-8.fc12.x86_64 : aRts (analog realtime synthesizer) - the KDE sound cfengine-2.2.10-3.fc12.x86_64 : A systems administration tool for networks gambas2-gb-compress-2.17.0-1.fc12.x86_64 : Gambas2 component package for 3:koffice-kspread-1.6.3-26.20090306svn.fc12.x86_64 : A powerful spreadsheet 3:koffice-kivio-1.6.3-26.20090306svn.fc12.x86_64 : A flowcharting application ghostscript-devel-8.70-1.fc12.x86_64 : Files for developing applications that xfce4-session-4.6.1-3.fc12.x86_64 : Xfce session manager gambas2-gb-db-firebird-2.17.0-1.fc12.x86_64 : Gambas2 component package for globus-xio-popen-driver-0.2-4.fc12.x86_64 : Globus Toolkit - Globus XIO Pipe kdepim3-libs-3.5.10-2.fc12.x86_64 : Runtime files for kdepim3 gambas2-runtime-2.17.0-1.fc12.x86_64 : Runtime environment for Gambas2 gambas2-gb-db-odbc-2.17.0-1.fc12.x86_64 : Gambas2 component package for db-odbc gambas2-gb-xml-xslt-2.17.0-1.fc12.x86_64 : Gambas2 component package for oprofile-jit-0.9.5-2.fc12.x86_64 : Libraries required for profiling Java and neon-devel-0.29.0-3.fc12.x86_64 : Development libraries and C header files for alsa-lib-1.0.21-3.fc12.x86_64 : The Advanced Linux Sound Architecture (ALSA) gambas2-gb-qt-kde-html-2.17.0-1.fc12.x86_64 : Gambas2 component package for flumotion-0.4.2-10.fc12.x86_64 : Streaming Server based on GStreamer and Twisted 3:koffice-kexi-driver-pgsql-1.6.3-26.20090306svn.fc12.x86_64 : Postgresql driver taxipilot-0.9.2-9.fc12.x86_64 : Game where you pilot a taxi in space pyclutter-gtk-0.9.2-1.fc12.x86_64 : Python modules that allow you to use the gambas2-gb-net-curl-2.17.0-1.fc12.x86_64 : Gambas2 component package for kflickr-
Re: Pulseaudio in F12
On Mon, Nov 30, 2009 at 11:36:01AM +0100, Michal Schmidt wrote: > Dne Mon, 30 Nov 2009 11:12:38 +0100 Michael Schwendt napsal(a): > > On Mon, 30 Nov 2009 10:38:15 +0100, Michal wrote: > > > > > Dne Mon, 30 Nov 2009 07:05:28 -0200 Paulo Cavalcanti napsal(a): > > > > Thanks for the explanation. > > > > > > > > At least 3 applications are not restoring the volumes: > > > > > > > > xmms, mplayer and audacious. > > > > > > Interesting. Maybe these programs try to be too clever and force the > > > volume themselves. > > > > It's not an attempt at being "too clever", but several upstream > > developers feel lost in what they have to do or what they have not to > > do to get something right. Temporarily, Audacious devlopers have > > dropped their "pulse_audio" driver (originally from XMMS) even, since > > they were of the impression that "it didn't work anyway". Ubuntu > > users currently feel punished with Pulse Audio. With a first bunch of > > fixes [for volume issues in Fedora 12 Rawhide, volume decreased for > > every new song], the driver was restored again for Audacious 2.2 > > development. With more recent changes in Pulse Audio, it seems, more > > changes are necessary. But Audacious 2.1 cannot reflect external > > volume level changes in its UI anyway. Its volume slider cannot move > > for volume level changes made with external tools. Only the next > > release can do that, and it suffers from new bugs (such as a bug in > > alsa-lib that will require an update in Fedora, too). > > Thanks for the explanation. Before I saw your reply, I played with > audacious-plugins and made a kludge to prevent it from forcing 100 % > volume on startup. It probably breaks something else, I haven't really > tested it too much. Mplayer needs similiar patch: http://lists.mplayerhq.hu/pipermail/mplayer-users/2009-October/077999.html -- Tomasz Torcz ,,If you try to upissue this patchset I shall be seeking xmpp: zdzich...@chrome.pl an IP-routable hand grenade.'' -- Andrew Morton (LKML) -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
Re: Fedora 12 x86 DVD images
On Fri, Nov 27, 2009 at 5:22 PM, Alexandre Oliva wrote: > On Nov 24, 2009, Jesse Keating wrote: > >> Yes, we may rename the Live images to i386. Yes, please make the naming scheme consistent. Ciao, -- Paolo -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
Re: Pulseaudio in F12
On Mon, 2009-11-30 at 11:36 +0100, Michal Schmidt wrote: > Dne Mon, 30 Nov 2009 11:12:38 +0100 Michael Schwendt napsal(a): > > On Mon, 30 Nov 2009 10:38:15 +0100, Michal wrote: > > > > > Dne Mon, 30 Nov 2009 07:05:28 -0200 Paulo Cavalcanti napsal(a): > > > > Thanks for the explanation. > > > > > > > > At least 3 applications are not restoring the volumes: > > > > > > > > xmms, mplayer and audacious. > > > > > > Interesting. Maybe these programs try to be too clever and force the > > > volume themselves. > > > > It's not an attempt at being "too clever", but several upstream > > developers feel lost in what they have to do or what they have not to > > do to get something right. Temporarily, Audacious devlopers have > > dropped their "pulse_audio" driver (originally from XMMS) even, since > > they were of the impression that "it didn't work anyway". Ubuntu > > users currently feel punished with Pulse Audio. With a first bunch of > > fixes [for volume issues in Fedora 12 Rawhide, volume decreased for > > every new song], the driver was restored again for Audacious 2.2 > > development. With more recent changes in Pulse Audio, it seems, more > > changes are necessary. But Audacious 2.1 cannot reflect external > > volume level changes in its UI anyway. Its volume slider cannot move > > for volume level changes made with external tools. Only the next > > release can do that, and it suffers from new bugs (such as a bug in > > alsa-lib that will require an update in Fedora, too). > > Thanks for the explanation. Before I saw your reply, I played with > audacious-plugins and made a kludge to prevent it from forcing 100 % > volume on startup. It probably breaks something else, I haven't really > tested it too much. > > Notice that the documentation for pa_stream_connect_playback strongly > recommends passing NULL as volume. This looks correct, you're never supposed to restore volume yourself when using PulseAudio. -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
Re: Pulseaudio in F12
Dne Mon, 30 Nov 2009 11:12:38 +0100 Michael Schwendt napsal(a):
> On Mon, 30 Nov 2009 10:38:15 +0100, Michal wrote:
>
> > Dne Mon, 30 Nov 2009 07:05:28 -0200 Paulo Cavalcanti napsal(a):
> > > Thanks for the explanation.
> > >
> > > At least 3 applications are not restoring the volumes:
> > >
> > > xmms, mplayer and audacious.
> >
> > Interesting. Maybe these programs try to be too clever and force the
> > volume themselves.
>
> It's not an attempt at being "too clever", but several upstream
> developers feel lost in what they have to do or what they have not to
> do to get something right. Temporarily, Audacious devlopers have
> dropped their "pulse_audio" driver (originally from XMMS) even, since
> they were of the impression that "it didn't work anyway". Ubuntu
> users currently feel punished with Pulse Audio. With a first bunch of
> fixes [for volume issues in Fedora 12 Rawhide, volume decreased for
> every new song], the driver was restored again for Audacious 2.2
> development. With more recent changes in Pulse Audio, it seems, more
> changes are necessary. But Audacious 2.1 cannot reflect external
> volume level changes in its UI anyway. Its volume slider cannot move
> for volume level changes made with external tools. Only the next
> release can do that, and it suffers from new bugs (such as a bug in
> alsa-lib that will require an update in Fedora, too).
Thanks for the explanation. Before I saw your reply, I played with
audacious-plugins and made a kludge to prevent it from forcing 100 %
volume on startup. It probably breaks something else, I haven't really
tested it too much.
Notice that the documentation for pa_stream_connect_playback strongly
recommends passing NULL as volume.
Index: audacious-plugins-fedora-2.1/src/pulse_audio/pulse_audio.c
===
--- audacious-plugins-fedora-2.1.orig/src/pulse_audio/pulse_audio.c
+++ audacious-plugins-fedora-2.1/src/pulse_audio/pulse_audio.c
@@ -666,7 +666,7 @@ static int pulse_open(AFormat fmt, int r
pa_stream_set_write_callback(stream, stream_request_cb, NULL);
pa_stream_set_latency_update_callback(stream, stream_latency_update_cb,
NULL);
-if (pa_stream_connect_playback(stream, NULL, NULL,
PA_STREAM_INTERPOLATE_TIMING|PA_STREAM_AUTO_TIMING_UPDATE, &volume, NULL) < 0) {
+if (pa_stream_connect_playback(stream, NULL, NULL,
PA_STREAM_INTERPOLATE_TIMING|PA_STREAM_AUTO_TIMING_UPDATE, NULL, NULL) < 0) {
AUDDBG("Failed to connect stream: %s",
pa_strerror(pa_context_errno(context)));
goto unlock_and_fail;
}
@@ -715,6 +715,7 @@ static int pulse_open(AFormat fmt, int r
}
pa_operation_unref(o);
+#if 0
/* set initial volume */
if (!(o = pa_context_set_sink_input_volume(context,
pa_stream_get_index(stream), &volume, NULL, NULL))) {
g_warning("pa_context_set_sink_input_volume() failed: %s",
pa_strerror(pa_context_errno(context)));
@@ -725,6 +726,7 @@ static int pulse_open(AFormat fmt, int r
pa_threaded_mainloop_wait(mainloop);
}
pa_operation_unref(o);
+#endif
do_trigger = 0;
written = 0;
--
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Re: F12: NetworkManager-Firefox: Firefox is currently in offline mode and can't browse the Web
On 30/11/09 09:55, Terry Barnaby wrote: On 11/29/2009 11:30 PM, Dan Williams wrote: On Sat, 2009-11-28 at 09:10 +, Terry Barnaby wrote: On 11/28/2009 08:35 AM, Rakesh Pandit wrote: 2009/11/28 Terry Barnaby wrote: If the NetworkManager service is running, but not managing the current network connection, then Firefox starts up in offline mode. Is this a bug in NetworkManager or Firefox ? This is odd behaviour and needs to be fixed. I would suggest open up a bug against firefox. I know one can change toolkit.networkmanager.disable preference, but it is a PITA for our users. One of use cases is: Sometime network manager does not connect me via my CDMA usb modem (in case signal is weak), but wvdial does and once I switch from NM to wvdial, my firefox gets to offline mode, which I don't expect it to as I am connected. Ok, filed as: 542078 NetworkManager is intended to control the default internet connection. If NetworkManager cannot control the default internet connection, then you may not want to use NetworkManager. In your case, you're using a mobile broadband device. The real bug here is that for whatever reason, NM/MM aren't connecting your modem, and we should follow up on that bug instead. Dan I am not using a mobile broadband device. The network connection my systems use is not just the Internet it is a local network LAN connection that also serves the internet. Most of my systems use a local network server which provides NIS, /home and /data using NFS and VPN etc. I normally use the service "network" to bring up wired or wireless networking for this. Fedora, by default, uses NetworkManager to manage all network devices though. I use the service "network" as, for some reason, the NetworkManager service is started after the netfs and other services are started. Is there a reason for this ?? Don't know about the reason, but on my work desktop (where we have LDAP auth and NFS home dirs), I can still use NetworkManager in F12: * Make sure your LAN interfaces are marked "available to all users" in NetworkManager (I think this corresponds to "ONBOOT=yes" in /etc/sysconfig/ifcfg-eth*) * Add to /etc/sysconfig/network: NETWORKWAIT=true This should bring the network up before netfs. Unfortunately I've had to revert to the old network service because I need bridged networking for my virt guests; there was a plan to support this in NetworkManager in F-12 (http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/NetworkManagerBridging) but nothing seems to have happened with that, though I see there is a similar feature proposed for F-13 (http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/Shared_Network_Interface). Paul. -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
Re: Pulseaudio in F12
On Mon, 30 Nov 2009 10:38:15 +0100, Michal wrote: > Dne Mon, 30 Nov 2009 07:05:28 -0200 Paulo Cavalcanti napsal(a): > > Thanks for the explanation. > > > > At least 3 applications are not restoring the volumes: > > > > xmms, mplayer and audacious. > > Interesting. Maybe these programs try to be too clever and force the > volume themselves. It's not an attempt at being "too clever", but several upstream developers feel lost in what they have to do or what they have not to do to get something right. Temporarily, Audacious devlopers have dropped their "pulse_audio" driver (originally from XMMS) even, since they were of the impression that "it didn't work anyway". Ubuntu users currently feel punished with Pulse Audio. With a first bunch of fixes [for volume issues in Fedora 12 Rawhide, volume decreased for every new song], the driver was restored again for Audacious 2.2 development. With more recent changes in Pulse Audio, it seems, more changes are necessary. But Audacious 2.1 cannot reflect external volume level changes in its UI anyway. Its volume slider cannot move for volume level changes made with external tools. Only the next release can do that, and it suffers from new bugs (such as a bug in alsa-lib that will require an update in Fedora, too). -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
Re: F12: NetworkManager-Firefox: Firefox is currently in offline mode and can't browse the Web
Hi, On Mon, 2009-11-30 at 09:55 +, Terry Barnaby wrote: > On 11/29/2009 11:30 PM, Dan Williams wrote: > > On Sat, 2009-11-28 at 09:10 +, Terry Barnaby wrote: > >> On 11/28/2009 08:35 AM, Rakesh Pandit wrote: > >>> 2009/11/28 Terry Barnaby wrote: > If the NetworkManager service is running, but not managing the current > network connection, then Firefox starts up in offline mode. > > Is this a bug in NetworkManager or Firefox ? > > >>> > >>> This is odd behaviour and needs to be fixed. I would suggest open up a > >>> bug against firefox. I know one can change > >>> toolkit.networkmanager.disable preference, but it is a PITA for our > >>> users. One of use cases is: Sometime network manager does not connect > >>> me via my CDMA usb modem (in case signal is weak), but wvdial does and > >>> once I switch from NM to wvdial, my firefox gets to offline mode, > >>> which I don't expect it to as I am connected. > >>> > >> Ok, filed as: 542078 > > > > NetworkManager is intended to control the default internet connection. > > If NetworkManager cannot control the default internet connection, then > > you may not want to use NetworkManager. > > > > In your case, you're using a mobile broadband device. The real bug here > > is that for whatever reason, NM/MM aren't connecting your modem, and we > > should follow up on that bug instead. > > > > Dan > > > I am not using a mobile broadband device. The network connection my systems > use is not just the Internet it is a local network LAN connection that also > serves the internet. Most of my systems use a local network server which > provides NIS, /home and /data using NFS and VPN etc. I normally use the > service "network" to bring up wired or wireless networking for this. Fedora, > by default, uses NetworkManager to manage all network devices though. I use > the service "network" as, for some reason, the NetworkManager service is > started after the netfs and other services are started. Is there a reason > for this ?? > > I can obviously turn of the NetworkManager service, which I have done on the > desktop systems. However, I also have a few Laptops that can roam. In F11 and > before I have used the network and NetworkManager services. When the laptop > boots away from home, the "network" service fails and I can then use the > NetworkManager service to connect to whatever wireless network or G3 network > is > available. > > It does seem sensible to me that the "system" provides applications with info > on if the network is up (not just the Internet). The NetworkManager service > seems the place to do this and it looks like the applications are starting > to use it for this purpose. > So maybe a generic NM "isNetworkUp()" API call is called for ? > I think the NetworkManager issue is a confusion between control and monitoring. I've mentioned this before in another context, but there seems to be no reason why these two things should be considered the same. Just because NetworkManager isn't controlling a device doesn't mean that it shouldn't monitor the up/down state of the device and update the applications' idea of the network being up/down accordingly, Steve. -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
Re: F12: NetworkManager-Firefox: Firefox is currently in offline mode and can't browse the Web
On 11/29/2009 11:30 PM, Dan Williams wrote: On Sat, 2009-11-28 at 09:10 +, Terry Barnaby wrote: On 11/28/2009 08:35 AM, Rakesh Pandit wrote: 2009/11/28 Terry Barnaby wrote: If the NetworkManager service is running, but not managing the current network connection, then Firefox starts up in offline mode. Is this a bug in NetworkManager or Firefox ? This is odd behaviour and needs to be fixed. I would suggest open up a bug against firefox. I know one can change toolkit.networkmanager.disable preference, but it is a PITA for our users. One of use cases is: Sometime network manager does not connect me via my CDMA usb modem (in case signal is weak), but wvdial does and once I switch from NM to wvdial, my firefox gets to offline mode, which I don't expect it to as I am connected. Ok, filed as: 542078 NetworkManager is intended to control the default internet connection. If NetworkManager cannot control the default internet connection, then you may not want to use NetworkManager. In your case, you're using a mobile broadband device. The real bug here is that for whatever reason, NM/MM aren't connecting your modem, and we should follow up on that bug instead. Dan I am not using a mobile broadband device. The network connection my systems use is not just the Internet it is a local network LAN connection that also serves the internet. Most of my systems use a local network server which provides NIS, /home and /data using NFS and VPN etc. I normally use the service "network" to bring up wired or wireless networking for this. Fedora, by default, uses NetworkManager to manage all network devices though. I use the service "network" as, for some reason, the NetworkManager service is started after the netfs and other services are started. Is there a reason for this ?? I can obviously turn of the NetworkManager service, which I have done on the desktop systems. However, I also have a few Laptops that can roam. In F11 and before I have used the network and NetworkManager services. When the laptop boots away from home, the "network" service fails and I can then use the NetworkManager service to connect to whatever wireless network or G3 network is available. It does seem sensible to me that the "system" provides applications with info on if the network is up (not just the Internet). The NetworkManager service seems the place to do this and it looks like the applications are starting to use it for this purpose. So maybe a generic NM "isNetworkUp()" API call is called for ? -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
Re: Pulseaudio in F12
Dne Mon, 30 Nov 2009 07:05:28 -0200 Paulo Cavalcanti napsal(a): > Thanks for the explanation. > > At least 3 applications are not restoring the volumes: > > xmms, mplayer and audacious. Interesting. Maybe these programs try to be too clever and force the volume themselves. > The solution is using the alsa plugin, and not the pulse plugin in > these cases. > > Some others work fine, such as rhythmbox, amarok, vlc, and kradio4. Michal -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
Re: Pulseaudio in F12
On Sun, Nov 29, 2009 at 2:26 PM, Jud Craft wrote: > > I have two sound cards installed: one onboard and another PCI. > > > > The PCI, the one I do no use very much, works fine. The onboard > > is the one which does not save the volumes. Every time I call an > application > > its master and pcm volume go to the maximum (I see the sliders going to > the > > top > > in alsamixer). > > This has been addressed by the PulseAudio creator. You can read more > about it here, see the "PCM is always 100%": > > http://pulseaudio.org/wiki/PulseAudioStoleMyVolumes > > In my lay explanation, Pulse manages the application volumes behind > the scenes. It still remembers their values, but it doesn't use > Alsamixer to set them. It tries to use the full volume range of the > hardware (for better volume scaling), so it keeps every other software > linux volume control at full volume, and scales itself internally. > > Otherwise, ALSA would say "you can only use the lower 50% of the sound > range of this device". (PCM at 50%). Now Pulse decides internally > what volume level is best. > > > Thanks for the explanation. At least 3 applications are not restoring the volumes: xmms, mplayer and audacious. The solution is using the alsa plugin, and not the pulse plugin in these cases. Some others work fine, such as rhythmbox, amarok, vlc, and kradio4. -- Paulo Roma Cavalcanti LCG - UFRJ -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
Re: rpms/php-facedetect/EL-5 php-facedetect.spec,1.1,1.2
Can this commit be reverted?
It was requested to rebuild package only for rawhide!
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=530717
2009/11/30 topdog :
> Author: topdog
>
> Update of /cvs/pkgs/rpms/php-facedetect/EL-5
> In directory cvs1.fedora.phx.redhat.com:/tmp/cvs-serv20125/EL-5
>
> Modified Files:
> php-facedetect.spec
> Log Message:
> * Mon Nov 30 2009 Andrew Colin Kissa 1.0.0-3
> - rebuild for new opencv
>
>
>
>
> Index: php-facedetect.spec
> ===
> RCS file: /cvs/pkgs/rpms/php-facedetect/EL-5/php-facedetect.spec,v
> retrieving revision 1.1
> retrieving revision 1.2
> diff -u -p -r1.1 -r1.2
> --- php-facedetect.spec 31 Jul 2009 15:31:54 - 1.1
> +++ php-facedetect.spec 30 Nov 2009 08:49:23 - 1.2
> @@ -3,7 +3,7 @@
>
> Name: php-facedetect
> Version: 1.0.0
> -Release: 2%{?dist}
> +Release: 3%{?dist}
> Summary: PHP extension to access the OpenCV library
> Group: Development/Languages
> License: PHP
> @@ -58,6 +58,9 @@ rm -rf $RPM_BUILD_ROOT
> %{php_extdir}/facedetect.so
>
> %changelog
> +* Sun Nov 29 2009 Andrew Colin Kissa - 1.0.0-2
> +- Rebuild with new opencv
> +
> * Thu Jul 30 2009 Andrew Colin Kissa - 1.0.0-2
> - Fix macros
>
>
> --
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> fedora-extras-comm...@redhat.com
> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-extras-commits
>
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Re: rawhide report: 20091128 changes
2009/11/28 Rex Dieter : > Rawhide Report wrote: > >> Compose started at Sat Nov 28 08:15:06 UTC 2009 >> >> Broken deps for i386 > >> kipi-plugins-0.8.0-3.fc13.i686 requires libcxcore.so.2 >> kipi-plugins-0.8.0-3.fc13.i686 requires libcvaux.so.2 >> kipi-plugins-0.8.0-3.fc13.i686 requires libcv.so.2 >> kipi-plugins-0.8.0-3.fc13.i686 requires libhighgui.so.2 > > Looks like an ABI-breaking opencv landed. ;( This ABI bump was scheduled from this bug: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=530717 packagers are expected to rebuild their package. ps: I will do mine tonight. Nicolas (kwizart) -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
