Re: astronomy-bookmarks conflicts with fedora-bookmarks

2009-12-14 Thread Eric Christensen
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On 12/14/2009 04:50 PM, Paul W. Frields wrote:
> On Mon, Dec 14, 2009 at 04:32:56PM -0500, Eric Christensen wrote:
>> When trying to install astronomy-bookmarks I get the error that
>> "astronomy-bookmarks conflicts with fedora-bookmarks" in PackageKit.  I
>> looked at the source (an HTML file) but I can't quite figure out why it
>> would conflict.  Does anyone know?
> 
> [p...@scarlett ~]$ repoquery -q --provides astronomy-bookmarks
> astronomy-bookmarks = 1-6.fc12
> system-bookmarks
> [p...@scarlett ~]$ repoquery -q --provides fedora-bookmarks
> fedora-bookmarks = 11-2
> system-bookmarks
> 
> They both provide 'system-bookmarks'.
> 

Okay, that makes sense.  Thanks Paul.

- --Eric
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astronomy-bookmarks conflicts with fedora-bookmarks

2009-12-14 Thread Eric Christensen
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When trying to install astronomy-bookmarks I get the error that
"astronomy-bookmarks conflicts with fedora-bookmarks" in PackageKit.  I
looked at the source (an HTML file) but I can't quite figure out why it
would conflict.  Does anyone know?

Thanks,
Eric
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Re: Security testing: need for a security policy, and a security-critical package process

2009-12-01 Thread Eric Christensen
On Tue, Dec 1, 2009 at 12:47, Gene Czarcinski  wrote:

> On Monday 30 November 2009 18:16:50 Adam Williamson wrote:
>  > Where I'm currently at is that I'm going to talk to some Red Hat /
> > Fedora security folks about the issues raised in all the discussions
> > about this, including this thread, and then file a ticket to ask FESco
> > to look at the matter, possibly including a proposed policy if the
> > security folks help come up with one. And for the moment, only really
> > concerned with the question of privileges.
> >
> Start small with just privilege escalation and it can be grown to be
> something
> more comprehensive.  FESco is the right place to go and see what the
> project
> wants to do.
>

There is already a security policy in place.  It's not formalized nor is it
written down but it's there.  It's the current posture of Fedora.  We set a
root passphrase at the beginning of install and we give people the option of
securing GRUB with a passphrase and encrypting the hard drive.  We also have
the unwritten rule of user privileges.

It may be time to document our current posture to at least show where we are
and the standard we expect all developers to live up to.   In the process of
documenting you may find that we are lacking somewhere.

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Re: Security testing: need for a security policy, and a security-critical package process

2009-12-01 Thread Eric Christensen
On Mon, Nov 30, 2009 at 22:40, Hal Murray  wrote:

>
> g...@czarc.net said:
> ...
> > A written description of the security policy is a must!
> ...
>
> Is the idea of a single one-size-fits-all security policy reasonable?  I
> think Fedora has a broad range of users.
>

Probably not but there are some basics that should be implemented for
everyone.

>
> Security is a tradeoff.  If you make it impossible for the bad guys to get
> in, the good guys probably can't get any work done.  How secure do you need
> to be?  How much are you willing to pay for it?
>

How much are you willing to pay to clean up the aftermath?


>
> I'd much rather have an overview document that explains the likely attacks
> and potential solutions, and their costs and benefits.  Additionally, I
> think
> it's much easier to follow a policy if I understand the reasonaing behind
> it.
>

The Fedora Security Guide (found at docs.fedoraproject.org and in a friendly
repo near you) started out that way and has blossomed into that and a whole
lot more.  As always suggestions and patches are welcome.


> I think sample policy documents with descriptions of their target audience
> and checklists for how to implement them would be helpful.
>

+1


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Re: Security testing: need for a security policy, and a security-critical package process

2009-11-30 Thread Eric Christensen
On Mon, Nov 30, 2009 at 15:09, Gene Czarcinski  wrote:

> Although I have read all of the messages on this thread as of the date/time
> of
> this message, I am replying to this first message with all of my comments.
>
> My background: I am currently retired but a few years ago I was still being
> paid the big bucks for working on computer security and security assessment
> of
> systems in US classified environments.
>
> On the whole, I believe that Adam has outlined a good approach to the
> problem
> of doing QA on security for Fedora!
>
> General comment:  I have read messages which claim that the approach is
> wrong
> and that we need to look at things that a user can do rather than what a
> user
> cannot do.  I disagree.  While the right approach for design/development is
> to
> assume that a user can do nothing except what they are specifically
> authorized
> to do, for security QA this needs to be turned around and the testing needs
> to
> demonstrate what a user cannot do.
>
> On Monday 23 November 2009 17:08:31 Adam Williamson wrote:
> > We can't do any meaningful security testing without knowing exactly what
> > we should be testing for, in which packages. I believe Seth Vidal's
> > upcoming proposal for covering 'major changes' may touch on this, but I
> > doubt they'll cover exactly the same ground.
> >
> > So, if we are to have meaningful security testing in future releases -
> > which QA believes would be a good thing - we need the project to define
> > a security policy. We believe there's a genuine need for this anyway, as
> > the introduction and widespread adoption of PolicyKit will likely lead
> > to much more complex and significant potential changes in security
> > posture than any previous change.
> >
> > It's not QA's role to define exactly what the security policy should
> > look like or what it should cover, but from the point of view of
> > testing, what we really need are concrete requirements. The policy does
> > not have to be immediately comprehensive - try and cover every possible
> > security-related issue - to be valuable. Something as simple as spot's
> > proposed list of things an unprivileged user must not be able to do -
> > http://spot.livejournal.com/312216.html - would serve a valuable purpose
> > here.
> +1
>
> A written description of the security policy is a must!  Without it being
> written down in simple english (with translations as appropriate), there
> will
> be far too much subjective interpretation of what the policy is.  I believe
> spot's list is a good starting point for F13.
>
> However, the policy should consider how Fedora should work with respect to
> security and not how it does work as currently implemented.  For example,
> you
> cannot currently login as root from the gui (gdm) interface but you can
> login
> as root from a virtual terminal ... is this the way the system should work?
>
> Keep it simple (KISS) for the initial attempt.  It will grow more
> complicated
> all by itself as time passes.
>
> BTW, the security policy should assume that a grub password is in use so
> that
> a user cannot do something like disabling selinux by editing the kernel
> command line.  This should be tested by the security QA.
>
> >
> > The second thing QA would require, aside from a policy with concrete and
> > testable requirements, is a list of security-sensitive components to
> > test. Obviously we couldn't test every package in the entire
> > distribution for compliance with even such a simple list as spot's, and
> > it would be a waste of time to try.
> +1
>
> You definitely need to define a "reference implementation" that will be
> tested.
> Security assurance testing is done on "as-built" systems ... not "as
> designed"!  It may be possible but is not practical to test everything. [or
> will take so long that the release will no longer be supported]
>
> Furthermore, I believe you should initially focus on a small subset of what
> is
> in Fedora (perhaps gnome only) and with a selected set of services
> (servers).
>
> At this point in time, considering all of the various windows
> implementations
> (gnome, kde, openbox, xfce, etc.) will result in a lot of motion but little
> of
> it in a forward direction.  KISS!!!
>
> ...
> Given a written security policy for Fedora and a written description of the
> "reference implementation" that will be tested, these need to be vetted and
> "tuned" from comments.
>
> After a reasonable amount of time, these documents/specifications should be
> approved by the Fedora Executive Committee (or whatever).  Any variation or
> change, should require additional approval.  There should be some
> independent
> oversight of the security QA process to minimize subjective
> (re)interpretation.
>
> This will NOT make everyone happy.  Sorry, but there is only so much
> resources
> and you really do not want this to be a black hole which consumes
> everything
> else.
>
> Start small, grow, and learn.  Two years from now, the secu

Re: Security testing: need for a security policy, and a security-critical package process

2009-11-23 Thread Eric Christensen
On Mon, 2009-11-23 at 18:10 -0800, Adam Williamson wrote:
> On Mon, 2009-11-23 at 19:38 -0500, Matthias Clasen wrote:
> 
> > How that translates in packages and defaults is not really the most
> > important part, but the plan is to have strict package defaults + a
> > policy package that makes things work. 
> > 
> > The important part is that we QA the combination, not just the strict
> > defaults. 
> 
> Right. If the Grand Plan is to go down this path, then what I've been
> referring to as 'the security policy' would include the policies defined
> for each spin, and hence any testing QA did for any given spin would
> involve the policy defined for that spin.
> 
> Having said that - is everyone agreeing that it's fine for each spin SIG
> to be entirely in charge of defining and implementing security policy
> for each spin? At the very least, that would possibly be problematic
> given the known border issues between 'the desktop spin' and 'Fedora'.
> Just another issue contributing to why we would need to settle that.
> 

Honestly, leaving PackageKit wide open would only make sense.  All
operating systems that I'm aware of generally install open and require
the end user to shore up their own installation because from the
engineer's point of view they want the operating system to work on
everyone's computer so they do things like leave the firewall wide open
and allow you to login to ssh as root.  Of course being able to flip a
couple of switches to shut that down is more than appropriate.  

I'm not saying that I agree with this open policy, however.  Many people
don't know that they should do anything to secure their computers from
install.  It's also a pain to harden these systems after each install.
I've often thought about doing a spin for those of us that use Fedora
within the U.S. Government or U.S. Military that would be pre-hardened
and ready to go.  Just install and go.  It would pass NIST and DISA
controls from the get go.

While that would also be great for home users it might be a bit overkill
(or maybe not).  If Fedora (and every other operating system) wants to
make a change in security posture the hardening script similar to the
one that comes with MySQL would be a great place to start.  The user
would install the software and go through the standard installation
stuff and then would be presented by a little icon on their desktop that
when selected would ask them simple questions that would automagically
harden their system depending on the answers.  Would be a heck of a lot
better than going through the NSA's RHEL Hardening Guide (which is an
awesome text, by the way).

Just my 2 cents worth.

--Eric


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Re: Local users get to play root?

2009-11-18 Thread Eric Christensen
On Thu, 2009-11-19 at 07:52 +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote:
> On 11/19/2009 07:50 AM, Mike McGrath wrote:
> > On Wed, 18 Nov 2009, Jeff Garzik wrote:
> 
> >> 1) We should recognize this new policy departs from decades of Unix and 
> >> Linux
> >> sysadmin experience.
> >>
> >> 2) F12 policy should be reverted to F11, ASAP.  Possibly with a CVE.
> >>
> >> 3) Due to #1, F13+ should not deviate from the decades-old default.
> >>
> >> 4) Release notes should explain new [and after step #2, optional] policy in
> >> detail, including how to turn it off again.  Seth's laudable write-up 
> >> efforts
> >> should not have been necessary -- that info should be prepared.
> >>
> >> 5) The people who want this new security policy should add an opt-in 
> >> checkbox
> >> in Anaconda or firstboot.
> >
> > 
> > Does anyone disagree with anything in 1-5?  It all sounds reasonable to
> > me?
> 
> Release notes are being updated as we speak. I think, the "role" of a
> system, be it a personal desktop, workstation, server or something else
> can change post-installation as well. I don't think a simple checkbox in
> Anaconda is going to be useful enough. We need a tool to switch policies
> easily so that we can tweak the policies across a wide range of tools
> with things like PolicyKit and each of these policies can be written
> with particular audiences in mind.
> 
> Rahul
> 

I agree with 1-4 and Rahul.

--Eric 


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Re: Local users get to play root?

2009-11-18 Thread Eric Christensen
On Wed, 2009-11-18 at 15:43 -0900, Jeff Spaleta wrote:
> On Wed, Nov 18, 2009 at 3:35 PM, Eric Christensen
>  wrote:
> > PackageKit is something right there on the desktop that, to its credit,
> > needs little knowledge to use whereas many of your attack vectors noted
> > above are generally fixed in my shop by use of a kickstart and securing
> > the box from physical access and require a higher skill to perform.
> 
> So can't you harden this with a kickstart file line like you do in
> your other hardening steps in your shop? I think to point Bill is
> trying to make is that there are of a number of other settings that
> need to be hardened and that this choice is just one of many choices
> associated with security associated with a console user.  Console user
> security is already a leaky ship and PK is just one more hole.
> 
> -jef
> 

Maybe.  I mean removing (or not installing) PK is a snap with kickstart.
I haven't visited my kickstart in a while so...  :)

I guess the big thing, to me, is that this vulnerability wasn't
presented, documented, or talked about and it is the opposite policy to
what most (all?) SYSADMINS would expect.  If you don't know to fix it
then you are pwned.  Most of the hardening guides that I've read or have
contributed to assumed that the operating system wouldn't allow this
kind of behavior by default and thus doesn't really address it.  I know
the hardening guide for RHEL from the NSA talks about setting up sudo
and how to use it but doesn't talk about securing pup, IIRC.

--Eric


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Re: Local users get to play root?

2009-11-18 Thread Eric Christensen
On Wed, 2009-11-18 at 19:23 -0500, Bill Nottingham wrote:
> Jeff Garzik (jgar...@pobox.com) said: 
> > Sorry, but this default (desktop users can install pkgs without
> > root) is just stupid.  It is antithetical to all standard security
> > models that have come before in Fedora and other Linux
> > distributions.
> 
> Out of the box, a desktop user has the ability to shut down the machine.
> This gives them the ability, out of the box, to:
> - DoS everyone on it
> - get a root shell
> -- install whatever they want
> -- put viruses on
> - hell, slap in a livecd or USB key and reinstall the box
> 
> It's a behavior change, for sure. For people who want to lock down their
> systems, it's a default they will need to be able to change, and they
> should have been able to discover it through the normal mechanisms for
> that. (i.e., the release notes.). It likely should have been discussed
> when it was introduced - it's obviously not something that's applicable
> to all usage cases for the OS.
> 
> But really, given that users out of the box can do *far far worse*, I'm
> not seeing the 'shameful', 'antithetical', OMG THE SKY IS FALLING AND
> YOU ALL SHOULD BE DRAWN AND QUARTERED sort of angst. Maybe people are
> tired of bagging tea and want new things to be outraged about.
> 
> Bill
> 

Bill,
You are assuming that the users have physical access to the box and also
know how to get a root shell and that the box hasn't been hardened
(before the PK vulnerability was known).

PackageKit is something right there on the desktop that, to its credit,
needs little knowledge to use whereas many of your attack vectors noted
above are generally fixed in my shop by use of a kickstart and securing
the box from physical access and require a higher skill to perform.

I'm not saying this new "functionality" in PK is necessarily bad but it
should have been easily ENABLED (not by default) by an admin with root
privileges.

Of course, in my thought process, now, PK should probably not be
installed on systems where users shouldn't have unrestricted access to
the repo.

--Eric


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Re: Local users get to play root?

2009-11-18 Thread Eric Christensen
On Wed, 2009-11-18 at 18:03 -0500, Jeff Garzik wrote:
> On 11/18/2009 05:51 PM, Rahul Sundaram wrote:
> > On 11/19/2009 04:19 AM, Richard Hughes wrote:
> >> 2009/11/18 Seth Vidal:
> >>> Richard,
> >>>   to be fair, when I asked you how to edit a .pkla file you couldn't tell 
> >>> me.
> >>> So, if our engineers don't know the basics, how should our users?
> >>
> >> Fair comment. Release notes additions might be good in this regard.
> >
> > It should have been announced and documented with the rationale for the
> > change *before* the release. Just pretending that everyone should know
> > about how PolicyKit works when documentation is just lacking doesn't cut
> > it. You didn't even respond to by bugzilla comment and just closed the
> 
> Agreed 100.1%.
> 
> 
> > bug. We will still do a post-release update for the release notes now
> > but that's scrambling to minimize damage.
> 
> The only thing that will fix the damage is to update PK, reverting the 
> default-insecure policy.
> 
> May I remind folks that it is easy to UPGRADE INTO INSECURITY here. 
> Admins with servers, coming from F10/F11, can very easily fall into this 
> trap simply by updating their current systems.
> 
>   Jeff

Has anyone drafted a notice to go out on the Announce List explaining
this vulnerability?  If admins don't know to fix/remove PK then they are
putting their systems at risk.

--Eric



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Re: Local users get to play root?

2009-11-18 Thread Eric Christensen
On Wed, 2009-11-18 at 14:49 -0800, Adam Williamson wrote:
> On Wed, 2009-11-18 at 10:52 -0800, Jesse Keating wrote:
> > On Wed, 2009-11-18 at 13:22 -0500, James Antill wrote:
> > > 
> > > 7. And the most obvious one ... how hard is it to get a bad package into
> > > one of the repos. that the machine has enabled. 
> > 
> > Right, PK is counting on this being sufficiently difficult enough to
> > prevent bad things from happening.  While I'd like to think that, and
> > would like to say that, I can't.
> 
> I do not see how that's relevant, frankly. For it to be relevant it
> would have to be true to state that, if you need root privileges to
> install signed packages, it's absolutely no problem if a signed package
> is evil. Obviously, that's not at all true. An evil 'trusted' package
> would be a Very Bad Thing in any case. Whether you need to be root to
> install a trusted package or not is entirely orthogonal, as far as I can
> see.
> 
> -- 
> Adam Williamson
> Fedora QA Community Monkey
> IRC: adamw | Fedora Talk: adamwill AT fedoraproject DOT org
> http://www.happyassassin.net
> 

I'd like to point out that there are trusted packages that I wouldn't
want my users downloading.  John is a good example but there are others.

Anyone requested that CVE yet?

--Eric


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Re: Help needed with fedora-security-guide-en-US-1.0-16.fc12

2009-07-26 Thread Eric Christensen
On Sun, 2009-07-26 at 20:09 +0100, Richard Fearn wrote:
> Hi Eric,
> 
> > I'm having problems with a Publican package (the Security Guide).  Below 
> > you will see the latest build error from Koji.  I'm not familiar with the 
> > error and I can't find anything listed on the wiki pages that I'm used to 
> > finding solutions to packaging errors.
> >
> > The SPEC file can be seen at 
> > http://sparks.fedorapeople.org/Packages/security-guide/fedora-security-guide-en-US.spec.
> >
> > I'd appreciate any suggestions.
> 
> I just looked at your spec file in CVS (it's newer than the one you
> provided a link to):
> 
> http://cvs.fedoraproject.org/viewvc/rpms/fedora-security-guide-en-US/devel/fedora-security-guide-en-US.spec?revision=1.4&view=markup
> 
> You have this in the %install section:
> 
> desktop-file-install  %{?vendoropt}
> --dir=${RPM_BUILD_ROOT}%{_datadir}/applications %{name}.desktop
> 
> but you have this in the %files section:
> 
> %{_datadir}/applications/%{?vendor}%{name}.desktop
> 
> That "%{?vendor}" causes "Fedora Project" to be inserted into the
> filename, resulting in these errors in build.log:
> 
> Processing files: fedora-security-guide-en-US-1.0-16.fc12.noarch
> error: Two files on one line: /usr/share/applications/Fedora
> error: File must begin with "/": Projectfedora-security-guide-en-US.desktop
> 
> Looks like you need to remove "%{?vendor}".
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Rich
> 

I'll forward this along as this is default coming out of Publican.
Thanks for the eyes, Rich.

-- Eric


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Help needed with fedora-security-guide-en-US-1.0-16.fc12

2009-07-25 Thread Eric Christensen
I'm having problems with a Publican package (the Security Guide).  Below you 
will see the latest build error from Koji.  I'm not familiar with the error and 
I can't find anything listed on the wiki pages that I'm used to finding 
solutions to packaging errors.

The SPEC file can be seen at 
http://sparks.fedorapeople.org/Packages/security-guide/fedora-security-guide-en-US.spec.

I'd appreciate any suggestions.

Thanks,
Eric



Package: fedora-security-guide-en-US-1.0-16.fc12
Tag: dist-f12-rebuild
Status: failed
Built by: jkeating
ID: 117516
Started: Sat, 25 Jul 2009 16:44:37 UTC
Finished: Sat, 25 Jul 2009 16:49:17 UTC


fedora-security-guide-en-US-1.0-16.fc12 (117516) failed on 
x86-5.fedora.phx.redhat.com (noarch), x86-1.fedora.phx.redhat.com (noarch):
  BuildError: error building package (arch noarch), mock exited with status 1; 
see build.log for more information
SRPMS:
  fedora-security-guide-en-US-1.0-16.fc12.src.rpm

Failed tasks:
-

Task 1503758 on x86-5.fedora.phx.redhat.com
Task Type: build (dist-f12-rebuild, 
/cvs/pkgs:rpms/fedora-security-guide-en-US/devel:fedora-security-guide-en-US-1_0-16_fc12)

Task 1513511 on x86-1.fedora.phx.redhat.com
Task Type: buildArch (fedora-security-guide-en-US-1.0-16.fc12.src.rpm, noarch)
logs:
  http://koji.fedoraproject.org/koji/getfile?taskID=1513511&name=build.log
  http://koji.fedoraproject.org/koji/getfile?taskID=1513511&name=root.log
  http://koji.fedoraproject.org/koji/getfile?taskID=1513511&name=state.log


Closed tasks:
-

Task 1513488 on x86-5.fedora.phx.redhat.com
Task Type: buildSRPMFromSCM 
(/cvs/pkgs:rpms/fedora-security-guide-en-US/devel:fedora-security-guide-en-US-1_0-16_fc12)
logs:
  http://koji.fedoraproject.org/koji/getfile?taskID=1513488&name=build.log
  http://koji.fedoraproject.org/koji/getfile?taskID=1513488&name=checkout.log
  http://koji.fedoraproject.org/koji/getfile?taskID=1513488&name=root.log
  http://koji.fedoraproject.org/koji/getfile?taskID=1513488&name=state.log



Task Info: http://koji.fedoraproject.org/koji/taskinfo?taskID=1503758
Build Info: http://koji.fedoraproject.org/koji/buildinfo?buildID=117516

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Re: Proposal to drop gMFSK in favor of fldigi

2009-07-15 Thread Eric Christensen
On Wed, 2009-07-15 at 23:09 -0400, Randall J. Berry wrote:
> This is a proposal to drop gMFSK 
> (http://koji.fedoraproject.org/koji/packageinfo?packageID=5883) in favor 
> of fldigi 
> (http://koji.fedoraproject.org/koji/packageinfo?packageID=5817) which 
> already supports all the same modes as gMFSK and then some.
> 
> Also; gMFSK has not been updated in a while whereas fldigi seems to 
> still be an active project. gMFSK is also having troubles being built on 
> rawhide (https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=511780) Shall we 
> work on the error and build it for rawhide or retire it in favor of 
> fldigi. What say you?
> 
> 73 de Randy N3LRX (a.k.a. Dp67)
> 

Randy,
Sounds good to me as I only use fldigi.  I wonder how many users out
there are using gMFSK?

Eric W4OTN


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