Re: Fedora 12 x86 DVD images
On Fri, Nov 27, 2009 at 5:22 PM, Alexandre Oliva aol...@redhat.com wrote: On Nov 24, 2009, Jesse Keating jkeat...@redhat.com wrote: Yes, we may rename the Live images to i386. Yes, please make the naming scheme consistent. Ciao, -- Paolo -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
Re: Fedora 12 x86 DVD images
On 11/28/2009 10:39 AM, Roberto Ragusa wrote: Sir Gallantmon wrote: Why not label it x86_32 instead of i386? That is far less confusing and illustrates that it is 32-bit on the x86 architecture, since x86_64 says it is 64-bit on x86 architecture. Because x86_32 is not an architecture name. You are just creating it from x86_64. 32 bit is i386 or IA32. 64 bit is x86_64 or AMD64 (BTW, I would have preferred AMD64 to be more used for 64 bit, as AMD should be given credit for the creation of the architecture, in contrast to Intel which gave us the disaster called IA64). AMD64 is a subset of x86_64, not an equivalent. The equivalent to AMD64 from the Intel side is EM64T. There's certainly a few minor niggling differences between the two architecture-wise, but we don't bias toward either and thus shouldn't name either. --CJD -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
Re: Fedora 12 x86 DVD images
Sir Gallantmon wrote: Why not label it x86_32 instead of i386? That is far less confusing and illustrates that it is 32-bit on the x86 architecture, since x86_64 says it is 64-bit on x86 architecture. Because x86_32 is not an architecture name. You are just creating it from x86_64. 32 bit is i386 or IA32. 64 bit is x86_64 or AMD64 (BTW, I would have preferred AMD64 to be more used for 64 bit, as AMD should be given credit for the creation of the architecture, in contrast to Intel which gave us the disaster called IA64). -- Roberto Ragusamail at robertoragusa.it -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
Re: Fedora 12 x86 DVD images
On Nov 24, 2009, Jesse Keating jkeat...@redhat.com wrote: Yes, we may rename the Live images to i386. If we're going to rename directories to match base arches... How about using “x86_32”? -- Alexandre Oliva, freedom fighterhttp://FSFLA.org/~lxoliva/ You must be the change you wish to see in the world. -- Gandhi Be Free! -- http://FSFLA.org/ FSF Latin America board member Free Software Evangelist Red Hat Brazil Compiler Engineer -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
Re: Fedora 12 x86 DVD images
Alexandre Oliva wrote: Yes, we may rename the Live images to i386. If we're going to rename directories to match base arches... How about using “x86_32”? Not only does it not match uname, but it's not specific - is it i386, i586, i686? I'd like to see the install images named i686 like the live images are now. If the purpose of the basearch convention is to not have to waste time making changes each time the subarch changes, it doesn't apply here, since it's known that this particular subarch (i686) will never change again. signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
Re: Fedora 12 x86 DVD images
Jesse Keating jkeating at redhat.com writes: [...] The base arch of the family is i386, just like we call the ppc spin ppc even though it only supports a subset of the ppc family, ditto sparc, arm, etc... the problem is that the install and live ISOs are using different naming formats, the install is using i386 while the live is using i686. That's really confusing. Paolo -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
Fedora 12 x86 DVD images
Hi all, some Fedora users just pointed me out that the x86 DVD image names are not accurate. The install DVD is called Fedora-12-i386-DVD.iso while the live DVD is called Fedora-12-i686-Live.iso. Please note the i386 text in the install DVD file name. This is creating some confusion among users because they tend to believe that packages are still compiled for i386 and not for i686. Bye. Andrea. -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
Re: Fedora 12 x86 DVD images
On Tue, 24 Nov 2009 10:38:49 +0100 Andrea Musuruane musur...@gmail.com wrote: Hi all, some Fedora users just pointed me out that the x86 DVD image names are not accurate. The install DVD is called Fedora-12-i386-DVD.iso while the live DVD is called Fedora-12-i686-Live.iso. Please note the i386 text in the install DVD file name. This is creating some confusion among users because they tend to believe that packages are still compiled for i386 and not for i686. Yeah, everything was supposed to be 'i386' for f12. i386 in this case meaning 32 bit. ;( I agree this causes confusion... kevin signature.asc Description: PGP signature -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
Re: Fedora 12 x86 DVD images
On Tue, 2009-11-24 at 10:38 +0100, Andrea Musuruane wrote: Hi all, some Fedora users just pointed me out that the x86 DVD image names are not accurate. The install DVD is called Fedora-12-i386-DVD.iso while the live DVD is called Fedora-12-i686-Live.iso. Please note the i386 text in the install DVD file name. This is creating some confusion among users because they tend to believe that packages are still compiled for i386 and not for i686. Bye. Andrea. The base arch of the family is i386, just like we call the ppc spin ppc even though it only supports a subset of the ppc family, ditto sparc, arm, etc... -- Jesse Keating Fedora -- Freedom² is a feature! identi.ca: http://identi.ca/jkeating signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
Re: Fedora 12 x86 DVD images
On Tue, Nov 24, 2009 at 10:22 AM, Jesse Keating jkeat...@redhat.com wrote: On Tue, 2009-11-24 at 10:38 +0100, Andrea Musuruane wrote: Hi all, some Fedora users just pointed me out that the x86 DVD image names are not accurate. The install DVD is called Fedora-12-i386-DVD.iso while the live DVD is called Fedora-12-i686-Live.iso. Please note the i386 text in the install DVD file name. This is creating some confusion among users because they tend to believe that packages are still compiled for i386 and not for i686. Bye. Andrea. The base arch of the family is i386, just like we call the ppc spin ppc even though it only supports a subset of the ppc family, ditto sparc, arm, etc... -- Jesse Keating Fedora -- Freedom² is a feature! identi.ca: http://identi.ca/jkeating Why not label it x86_32 instead of i386? That is far less confusing and illustrates that it is 32-bit on the x86 architecture, since x86_64 says it is 64-bit on x86 architecture. -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
Re: Fedora 12 x86 DVD images
On 2009/11/24 12:24 (GMT-0600) Sir Gallantmon composed: Why not label it x86_32 instead of i386? That is far less confusing and illustrates that it is 32-bit on the x86 architecture, since x86_64 says it is 64-bit on x86 architecture. +1 -- The husband should fulfill his marital duty to his wife, and likewise the wife to her husband. 1 Corinthians 7:3 NIV Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
Re: Fedora 12 x86 DVD images
On Tue, 2009-11-24 at 12:24 -0600, Sir Gallantmon wrote: Why not label it x86_32 instead of i386? That is far less confusing and illustrates that it is 32-bit on the x86 architecture, since x86_64 says it is 64-bit on x86 architecture. Because that's not what uname says. Change that, and then we'll talk. -- Jesse Keating Fedora -- Freedom² is a feature! identi.ca: http://identi.ca/jkeating signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
Re: Fedora 12 x86 DVD images
On Tue, 2009-11-24 at 10:54 -0800, Jesse Keating wrote: On Tue, 2009-11-24 at 12:24 -0600, Sir Gallantmon wrote: Why not label it x86_32 instead of i386? That is far less confusing and illustrates that it is 32-bit on the x86 architecture, since x86_64 says it is 64-bit on x86 architecture. Because that's not what uname says. Change that, and then we'll talk. it doesn't change the fact that, logically speaking, either the DVD or CD images is wrong. Or at least, less right. I can see no sustainable argument that they should be different. -- Adam Williamson Fedora QA Community Monkey IRC: adamw | Fedora Talk: adamwill AT fedoraproject DOT org http://www.happyassassin.net -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
Re: Fedora 12 x86 DVD images
On 11/25/2009 12:24 AM, Jesse Keating wrote: On Tue, 2009-11-24 at 12:24 -0600, Sir Gallantmon wrote: Why not label it x86_32 instead of i386? That is far less confusing and illustrates that it is 32-bit on the x86 architecture, since x86_64 says it is 64-bit on x86 architecture. Because that's not what uname says. Change that, and then we'll talk. What uname says doesn't have to match the ISO arch name at all. The suggestion above is very valid and you should consider implementing it to avoid confusion. Our users would be thankful and so would I, not having to answer questions about this anymore. Rahul -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
Re: Fedora 12 x86 DVD images
Adam Williamson wrote: it doesn't change the fact that, logically speaking, either the DVD or CD images is wrong. Or at least, less right. I can see no sustainable argument that they should be different. The same is true for the directory labels (i386/ for install images and i686/ for live images). BTW, the live image directory was originally i386/ in F7, and then changed to i686/ for F8 and later (although the ISO name was always i686). signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
Re: Fedora 12 x86 DVD images
On 11/25/2009 12:56 AM, Michael Cronenworth wrote: Should there be a RFE bug or rel-eng ticket created so this e-mail thread is not for nothing? It's been discussed since the beginning of time AFAIK. Tickets have been filed and closed before, IIRC. Rahul -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
Re: Fedora 12 x86 DVD images
Michael Cronenworth wrote: Should there be a RFE bug or rel-eng ticket created so this e-mail thread is not for nothing? It's been discussed since the beginning of time AFAIK. There's already one: https://fedorahosted.org/rel-eng/ticket/2476 which was closed as wontfix. signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
Re: Fedora 12 x86 DVD images
On Tue, Nov 24, 2009 at 5:22 PM, Jesse Keating jkeat...@redhat.com wrote: The base arch of the family is i386, just like we call the ppc spin ppc even though it only supports a subset of the ppc family, ditto sparc, arm, etc... Then why the Live DVD and the Install DVD have different names? And why the same is true for the directory labels (i386/ for install DVD and i686/ for live DVD)? Can we at least have some consistency? Thanks! Andrea. -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
Re: Fedora 12 x86 DVD images
On Tue, 2009-11-24 at 20:38 +0100, Andrea Musuruane wrote: On Tue, Nov 24, 2009 at 5:22 PM, Jesse Keating jkeat...@redhat.com wrote: The base arch of the family is i386, just like we call the ppc spin ppc even though it only supports a subset of the ppc family, ditto sparc, arm, etc... Then why the Live DVD and the Install DVD have different names? And why the same is true for the directory labels (i386/ for install DVD and i686/ for live DVD)? Can we at least have some consistency? Thanks! Andrea. Yes, we may rename the Live images to i386. When they were first introduced, we had both an i586 and an i686 kernel in Fedora, and the Live images were only usable on i686, they had no i586. Now that we don't have i586 anymore, we can change the live image name to i386. It was too late to do this for F12 at the time somebody suggested it. -- Jesse Keating Fedora -- Freedom² is a feature! identi.ca: http://identi.ca/jkeating signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
Re: Fedora 12 x86 DVD images
Jesse Keating wrote: Yes, we may rename the Live images to i386. When they were first introduced, we had both an i586 and an i686 kernel in Fedora, and the Live images were only usable on i686, they had no i586. Now that we don't have i586 anymore, we can change the live image name to i386. It was too late to do this for F12 at the time somebody suggested it. That makes everything consistent, but creates the same user confusion for live images that presently exists for install images. Since uname isn't strictly adhered to even now, why not just change the install labels to i686 instead? signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
