Re: GCC var-tracking-assignments: testing and bug reports appreciated

2009-09-11 Thread Mark Wielaard
Dave Airlie airlied at redhat.com writes:
 On Thu, 2009-09-10 at 21:27 +, Mark Wielaard wrote:
  Although it obviously would have been far nicer to have had this all in
  the mass rebuild, there were multiple test builds against rawhide packages. 
  I
  did a build of the rawhide kernel package using jakub's gcc-vta and lxo used
  that to post results of testing to the gcc list, which helped get it 
  accepted
  upstream, which is a requirement for it to make it into fedora, etc.
  Sorry, this wasn't more visible.
 
 Wierdly the first package that broke when this was pushed was the
 kernel

Yes :{ Which does proof Jesse's point of course.
There is no substitute for just dumping the code into rawhide
to give it a thorough testing... The original plan
Jakub had was to do a complete out-of-repo mass-rebuild before
adding it, but ran out of time, so that would have made it hit
rawhide even later... And Alex has been fast fixing any issues.

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Re: GCC var-tracking-assignments: testing and bug reports appreciated

2009-09-11 Thread Peter Jones
On 09/10/2009 06:27 PM, Tom Lane wrote:
 Mark Wielaard m...@redhat.com writes:
 Jesse Keating jkeating at redhat.com writes:
 This is my issue too.  There is claim that it was tested, yet it wasn't
 tested in the same place we require every other feature to be tested,
 that being rawhide.
 
 Although it obviously would have been far nicer to have had this all in 
 before
 the mass rebuild, there were multiple test builds against rawhide
 packages.
 
 ISTM the major argument in favor of letting this in now, namely better
 debuginfo data, is essentially moot because it missed the mass rebuild.
 The majority of packages are going to go out with old debuginfo.

I'm not sure that's entirely true.  Right now, a frequent debugging workflow
for me is something like:

1) discover the problem I'm seeing is in $PACKAGE
2) check out $PACKAGE from cvs and make a test-srpm
3) build it without optimizations
4) wedge it into my test environment
5) debug!

With better debuginfo generation in gcc, this workflow remains the same,
but it's possible that a) I may not have to turn of optimizations in
step #3, which can be a nontrivial difference depending on the package,
and b) I may get better results with step #5 .

So there is some advantage to doing this now, though it's not as great
as it could be had it been done within Fedora's unrealistic schedule.

-- 
Peter

When in doubt, debug-on-entry the function you least suspect has
anything to do with something.

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Re: GCC var-tracking-assignments: testing and bug reports appreciated

2009-09-11 Thread Alexandre Oliva
On Sep 11, 2009, John Reiser jrei...@bitwagon.com wrote:

 Not fast enough to avoid a two-day slip in rawhide kernels.

?!?

A work-around that enabled a successful kernel build was offered within
minutes.  A patch that fixed the bug was offered within hours.  A GCC
with the fix was available about half a day after the initial bug
report, and the kernel built with the newer GCC (but without newer debug
info) was already available at that point.

https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=521322

This bug was opened before the new GCC.  Exactly *one* kernel build
failed because of the new GCC feature.  I can't find any evidence that
this bug is in any way related with VTA or with the new GCC.

So how do you get from “GCC debug info was fixed, with one kernel build
and a few hours as casualty” to “two-day slip in rawhide kernels”?

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Re: GCC var-tracking-assignments: testing and bug reports appreciated

2009-09-11 Thread John Reiser

On 09/11/2009 12:03 PM, Alexandre Oliva wrote:

On Sep 11, 2009, John Reiserjrei...@bitwagon.com  wrote:

  snip

https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=521322


This bug was opened before the new GCC.  Exactly *one* kernel build
failed because of the new GCC feature.  I can't find any evidence that
this bug is in any way related with VTA or with the new GCC.


Even though there is no known technical connection between 521322 and the
hiccup with the new GCC, the hiccup got in the way of communicating
and disseminating the work on 521322, by interfering with the normal
process of daily rawhide.



So how do you get from “GCC debug info was fixed, with one kernel build
and a few hours as casualty” to “two-day slip in rawhide kernels”?


Yes, 521322 was opened before the new GCC.  But fully fixing 521322 (making
the software work for my card) has been delayed because the new GCC
disrupted the process despite not being an immediate impediment.

The first part of 521322 was essentially the same as 520766, and it was
marked as duplicate in https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=521322#c7
with the fix https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=520766#c4.

So I tried to test the fix immediately, by retrieving it directly from Koji
late Wednesday afternoon (PDT).  That build kernel-2.6.31-0.218.rc9.git2.fc12
failed.  The build of the next kernel-2.6.31-0.219.rc9.git2.fc12 succeeded.
Yes it did fix the 520766-like problem for me, but it revealed the next
bug https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=521322#c8.  That was early
evening PDT on Wednesday.  There had been no Rawhide report that day,
and there was no Rawhide report on Thursday, either, until 2100 PDT,
which is 12 to 16 hours later than expected.  Today's rawhide
still does not fix it: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=521322#c13.

The no external progress [still broken even though the internal cause
has advanced] from the fix for 520766 on Wednesday until today (Friday)
overlaps closely with two-day slip in rawhide kernels from Tuesday morning
until Thursday evening.  To the extent that the GCC hiccup contributed to
the lack of a Rawhide report kernel in that interval, then GCC is a direct 
cause.
If I had relied solely on Rawhide report, then there would have been
no progress from Tuesday morning to Thursday evening.

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Re: GCC var-tracking-assignments: testing and bug reports appreciated

2009-09-11 Thread Bill Nottingham
John Reiser (jrei...@bitwagon.com) said: 
 If I had relied solely on Rawhide report, then there would have been
 no progress from Tuesday morning to Thursday evening.

The delays in rawhide had nothing to do with the new gcc, FWIW.

Bill

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Re: GCC var-tracking-assignments: testing and bug reports appreciated

2009-09-11 Thread Kevin Kofler
Tom Lane wrote:
 ISTM the major argument in favor of letting this in now, namely better
 debuginfo data, is essentially moot because it missed the mass rebuild.
 The majority of packages are going to go out with old debuginfo.

Well, all the frequently rebuilt / frequently updated packages will pick up 
the new debuginfo, this includes at least Qt and KDE (though Qt currently 
trips over a bug in the var tracking and has to disable it, but I'm 
confident this will get fixed quickly if it isn't already). The GNOME 
packages will also get it, as 2.28 final is coming out and so the 2.27.x 
packages will all get replaced. That makes pretty much all the packages of 
the 2 primary desktops.

Kevin Kofler

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Re: GCC var-tracking-assignments: testing and bug reports appreciated

2009-09-11 Thread Jakub Jelinek
On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 10:44:22PM +0200, Kevin Kofler wrote:
 the new debuginfo, this includes at least Qt and KDE (though Qt currently 
 trips over a bug in the var tracking and has to disable it, but I'm 
 confident this will get fixed quickly if it isn't already). The GNOME 

That is fixed already for a few hours.

Jakub

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Re: GCC var-tracking-assignments: testing and bug reports appreciated

2009-09-11 Thread Kevin Kofler
Jakub Jelinek wrote:
 That is fixed already for a few hours.

And Qt has now been rebuilt (by rdieter) with var-tracking-assignments 
enabled:
http://koji.fedoraproject.org/koji/buildinfo?buildID=131619

Thanks to all you GCC folks for fixing the bug so quickly! :-)

Kevin Kofler

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Re: GCC var-tracking-assignments: testing and bug reports appreciated

2009-09-10 Thread Michel Alexandre Salim
On Thu, Sep 10, 2009 at 12:30 AM, Gregory Maxwell gmaxw...@gmail.com wrote:
 On Wed, Sep 9, 2009 at 11:53 PM, Michel Alexandre Salim
 michael.silva...@gmail.com wrote:
 On Tue, Sep 8, 2009 at 9:46 PM, Alexandre Oliva aol...@redhat.com wrote:
 Jakub built gcc-4.4.1-10 earlier today, with a new feature that
 generates much better debug information in optimized programs.

 The feature has been under development for a couple of years, and it's
 recently been accepted into GCC, for GCC 4.5.  We've backported it for
 Fedora 12.

 I'd appreciate if you Cc: me on any bug reports you hit that might be
 related with this new feature (GCC internal compiler errors, verify_ssa
 failures, crashes, etc).

 This bug affects LLVM on ppc:

 https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=522316

 I don't see a more recent pass in Koji. Did you try compiling with
 -fno-var-tracking-assignments  does it help?

Weird, I definitely did another build, and yes, it passed with that flag:

http://koji.fedoraproject.org/koji/packageinfo?packageID=5646

Regards,

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Re: GCC var-tracking-assignments: testing and bug reports appreciated

2009-09-10 Thread Josh Boyer
On Wed, Sep 09, 2009 at 06:35:09AM -0400, Josh Boyer wrote:
On Tue, Sep 08, 2009 at 10:46:26PM -0300, Alexandre Oliva wrote:
Jakub built gcc-4.4.1-10 earlier today, with a new feature that
generates much better debug information in optimized programs.

The feature has been under development for a couple of years, and it's
recently been accepted into GCC, for GCC 4.5.  We've backported it for
Fedora 12.

Why are you backporting something like this from a non-released compiler
into F12 _after_ Alpha and particularly _after_ the mass rebuild?

No response?  None?

I mean, I'm not asking for much.  All I want is an explanation as to why
this _has_ to be in F12 and can't be rolled into F13 instead.  At first
glance, it would make more sense to let the feature get some testing in
GCC mainline before we just backport it to Fedora users, so putting it
in F13 seems better to me.

josh

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Re: GCC var-tracking-assignments: testing and bug reports appreciated

2009-09-10 Thread Jakub Jelinek
On Thu, Sep 10, 2009 at 07:32:07AM -0400, Josh Boyer wrote:
 Why are you backporting something like this from a non-released compiler
 into F12 _after_ Alpha and particularly _after_ the mass rebuild?
 
 No response?  None?
 
 I mean, I'm not asking for much.  All I want is an explanation as to why
 this _has_ to be in F12 and can't be rolled into F13 instead.  At first
 glance, it would make more sense to let the feature get some testing in
 GCC mainline before we just backport it to Fedora users, so putting it
 in F13 seems better to me.

Because we really want it in F12, to make e.g. systemtap usable. It got
quite a lot of testing already and has been in development for 2 years.
Originally it was expected to be merged early in the summer, testing
rawhide gccs have been prepared already in early August.

There were so far 3 bugreports related to this, 2 of them are already fixed,
LLVM build is just needing too much memory on completely insane source
(people calling functions with 1375 arguments, 685 out of it are classes
with non-trivial ctors passed by value, deserve some punishment) and Alex
will look at it today.

Jakub

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Re: GCC var-tracking-assignments: testing and bug reports appreciated

2009-09-10 Thread Josh Boyer
On Thu, Sep 10, 2009 at 01:43:26PM +0200, Jakub Jelinek wrote:
On Thu, Sep 10, 2009 at 07:32:07AM -0400, Josh Boyer wrote:
 Why are you backporting something like this from a non-released compiler
 into F12 _after_ Alpha and particularly _after_ the mass rebuild?
 
 No response?  None?
 
 I mean, I'm not asking for much.  All I want is an explanation as to why
 this _has_ to be in F12 and can't be rolled into F13 instead.  At first
 glance, it would make more sense to let the feature get some testing in
 GCC mainline before we just backport it to Fedora users, so putting it
 in F13 seems better to me.

Because we really want it in F12, to make e.g. systemtap usable. It got
quite a lot of testing already and has been in development for 2 years.
Originally it was expected to be merged early in the summer, testing
rawhide gccs have been prepared already in early August.

So systemtap wasn't considered usable before this?  I am not a GCC
expert, but I can see how this feature would help it.  But it was surely
usable before this, right?

There were so far 3 bugreports related to this, 2 of them are already fixed,
LLVM build is just needing too much memory on completely insane source
(people calling functions with 1375 arguments, 685 out of it are classes
with non-trivial ctors passed by value, deserve some punishment) and Alex
will look at it today.

I have every confidence that you and Alex will fix all the bugs reported.
I also think the code itself is likely fairly stable, and may very well
provide some usability wins overall.  Your competence as a developer is
not, nor ever was, in question so please don't misunderstand my
questioning.

The largest problem I have with all this is the fact that the release
guidelines that everyone else has to follow don't appear to be followed
at all in this case.  You're introducing a backported feature into a
critical path package after Feature freeze, and after a mass-rebuild
which would have arguably helped test the hell out of this.  Any other
maintainer would have to get an exception from rel-eng and/or FESCo in
order to do something like this.  I don't see why the same requirements
don't apply here.

josh

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Re: GCC var-tracking-assignments: testing and bug reports appreciated

2009-09-10 Thread Jesse Keating
On Thu, 2009-09-10 at 08:27 -0400, Josh Boyer wrote:
 The largest problem I have with all this is the fact that the release
 guidelines that everyone else has to follow don't appear to be followed
 at all in this case.  You're introducing a backported feature into a
 critical path package after Feature freeze, and after a mass-rebuild
 which would have arguably helped test the hell out of this.  Any other
 maintainer would have to get an exception from rel-eng and/or FESCo in
 order to do something like this.  I don't see why the same requirements
 don't apply here.
 

This is my issue too.  There is claim that it was tested, yet it wasn't
tested in the same place we require every other feature to be tested,
that being rawhide.

If GCC is going to get special treatment, we should discuss, agree upon,
and document that special treatment to avoid GCC being used as an excuse
for others to ignore our policy and procedure.

-- 
Jesse Keating
Fedora -- Freedom² is a feature!
identi.ca: http://identi.ca/jkeating


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Re: GCC var-tracking-assignments: testing and bug reports appreciated

2009-09-10 Thread Alexandre Oliva
On Sep 10, 2009, Josh Boyer jwbo...@gmail.com wrote:

 On Wed, Sep 09, 2009 at 06:35:09AM -0400, Josh Boyer wrote:
 On Tue, Sep 08, 2009 at 10:46:26PM -0300, Alexandre Oliva wrote:
 Jakub built gcc-4.4.1-10 earlier today, with a new feature that
 generates much better debug information in optimized programs.
 
 The feature has been under development for a couple of years, and it's
 recently been accepted into GCC, for GCC 4.5.  We've backported it for
 Fedora 12.
 
 Why are you backporting something like this from a non-released compiler
 into F12 _after_ Alpha and particularly _after_ the mass rebuild?

 No response?  None?

It helps to Cc: me.  There are hundreds of mailing lists I'm in that I
don't open every day ;_)

As Jakub said, this was planned to go in before.  The merge into Fedora
was delayed because there was a possibility of upstream rejection, based
on opinions voiced some 1 or 2 years ago, when this work was still in
early planning and development stages.

Indeed, formal acceptance took much longer than anticipated, which is
why this hit Fedora rawhide so late in the game.

I can surely understand the feeling that, as a feature, it should have
respected the feature freeze deadlines.  But this feature also happens
to be a major bug fix, for debug information in optimized programs way
too often used to be incorrect and incomplete, to the point of being
pretty much a show-stopper for systemtap and other monitoring,
inspection and debugging tools that rely on debug information.

As such, I apologize for the delays in getting buy-in from upstream and
completing the work needed to get it in, and ask you to please tolerate
the delays and the changes, let it into Fedora 12, and enjoy the
better-quality debug information while debugging problems in time for
Fedora 12 ;-)

Thanks,

-- 
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You must be the change you wish to see in the world. -- Gandhi
Be Free! -- http://FSFLA.org/   FSF Latin America board member
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Re: GCC var-tracking-assignments: testing and bug reports appreciated

2009-09-10 Thread Alexandre Oliva
On Sep 10, 2009, Michel Alexandre Salim michael.silva...@gmail.com wrote:

 This bug affects LLVM on ppc:

 https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=522316

 I've Cc:ed you on it.

Thanks, I'm on it.

BTW, I wanted to mention that in the e-mail that started this thread,
but failed.  You all feel free to get in touch with me on IRC (my nick
is lxo) to bring bug reports along these lines to my attention.

E-mail is very slow in this regard, as in, I fetch new mail every
several hours.  I could have started working on this last night, but
since I hadn't got notice of it yet, I ended up working on something
else that was not quite as urgent ;-(

Thanks,

-- 
Alexandre Oliva, freedom fighterhttp://FSFLA.org/~lxoliva/
You must be the change you wish to see in the world. -- Gandhi
Be Free! -- http://FSFLA.org/   FSF Latin America board member
Free Software Evangelist  Red Hat Brazil Compiler Engineer

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Re: GCC var-tracking-assignments: testing and bug reports appreciated

2009-09-10 Thread Michel Alexandre Salim
On Thu, Sep 10, 2009 at 7:43 AM, Jakub Jelinek ja...@redhat.com wrote:
 There were so far 3 bugreports related to this, 2 of them are already fixed,
 LLVM build is just needing too much memory on completely insane source
 (people calling functions with 1375 arguments, 685 out of it are classes
 with non-trivial ctors passed by value, deserve some punishment) and Alex
 will look at it today.

That would explain why the previous two builds fail with virtual
memory exhaustion errors (not the last one, bizarrely).

Thanks,

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Michel Alexandre Salim

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Re: GCC var-tracking-assignments: testing and bug reports appreciated

2009-09-10 Thread Mark Wielaard
Josh Boyer jwboyer at gmail.com writes:
 On Thu, Sep 10, 2009 at 01:43:26PM +0200, Jakub Jelinek wrote:
 Because we really want it in F12, to make e.g. systemtap usable. It got
 quite a lot of testing already and has been in development for 2 years.
 Originally it was expected to be merged early in the summer, testing
 rawhide gccs have been prepared already in early August.
 
 So systemtap wasn't considered usable before this?  I am not a GCC
 expert, but I can see how this feature would help it.  But it was surely
 usable before this, right?

Better debuginfo and better systemtap tracing support is part of
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/SystemtapTracingRefresh
which is targetted at F12. But better variable tracking in the
dwarf output of gcc will also help other observability tools in
Fedora (like the updated gdb/archer).

Cheers,

Mark

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Re: GCC var-tracking-assignments: testing and bug reports appreciated

2009-09-10 Thread Mark Wielaard
Jesse Keating jkeating at redhat.com writes:
 This is my issue too.  There is claim that it was tested, yet it wasn't
 tested in the same place we require every other feature to be tested,
 that being rawhide.

Although it obviously would have been far nicer to have had this all in before
the mass rebuild, there were multiple test builds against rawhide packages. I
did a build of the rawhide kernel package using jakub's gcc-vta and lxo used
that to post results of testing to the gcc list, which helped get it accepted
upstream, which is a requirement for it to make it into fedora, etc. Sorry, this
wasn't more visible.

Cheers,

Mark

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Re: GCC var-tracking-assignments: testing and bug reports appreciated

2009-09-10 Thread Tom Lane
Mark Wielaard m...@redhat.com writes:
 Jesse Keating jkeating at redhat.com writes:
 This is my issue too.  There is claim that it was tested, yet it wasn't
 tested in the same place we require every other feature to be tested,
 that being rawhide.

 Although it obviously would have been far nicer to have had this all in before
 the mass rebuild, there were multiple test builds against rawhide
 packages.

ISTM the major argument in favor of letting this in now, namely better
debuginfo data, is essentially moot because it missed the mass rebuild.
The majority of packages are going to go out with old debuginfo.

Is there any chance of doing a new mass rebuild now?  That would
actually provide the intended benefit.  Plus, if we see any significant
number of failures, it would be sufficient evidence that the update
ought to be backed out; whereas if we don't, then it would assuage
peoples' entirely legitimate fears.

(I entirely agree with the concerns about this being a violation of
agreed-on process, btw, and would not be unhappy with a summary
rejection as an alternative.)

regards, tom lane

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Re: GCC var-tracking-assignments: testing and bug reports appreciated

2009-09-10 Thread Dave Airlie
On Thu, 2009-09-10 at 21:27 +, Mark Wielaard wrote:
 Jesse Keating jkeating at redhat.com writes:
  This is my issue too.  There is claim that it was tested, yet it wasn't
  tested in the same place we require every other feature to be tested,
  that being rawhide.
 
 Although it obviously would have been far nicer to have had this all in before
 the mass rebuild, there were multiple test builds against rawhide packages. I
 did a build of the rawhide kernel package using jakub's gcc-vta and lxo used
 that to post results of testing to the gcc list, which helped get it accepted
 upstream, which is a requirement for it to make it into fedora, etc. Sorry, 
 this
 wasn't more visible.

Wierdly the first package that broke when this was pushed was the
kernel ;-)

Dave.


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Re: GCC var-tracking-assignments: testing and bug reports appreciated

2009-09-09 Thread Josh Boyer
On Tue, Sep 08, 2009 at 10:46:26PM -0300, Alexandre Oliva wrote:
Jakub built gcc-4.4.1-10 earlier today, with a new feature that
generates much better debug information in optimized programs.

The feature has been under development for a couple of years, and it's
recently been accepted into GCC, for GCC 4.5.  We've backported it for
Fedora 12.

Why are you backporting something like this from a non-released compiler
into F12 _after_ Alpha and particularly _after_ the mass rebuild?

josh

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Re: GCC var-tracking-assignments: testing and bug reports appreciated

2009-09-09 Thread Michel Alexandre Salim
On Tue, Sep 8, 2009 at 9:46 PM, Alexandre Oliva aol...@redhat.com wrote:
 Jakub built gcc-4.4.1-10 earlier today, with a new feature that
 generates much better debug information in optimized programs.

 The feature has been under development for a couple of years, and it's
 recently been accepted into GCC, for GCC 4.5.  We've backported it for
 Fedora 12.

 I'd appreciate if you Cc: me on any bug reports you hit that might be
 related with this new feature (GCC internal compiler errors, verify_ssa
 failures, crashes, etc).

This bug affects LLVM on ppc:

https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=522316

I've Cc:ed you on it.

Thanks,

-- 
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Re: GCC var-tracking-assignments: testing and bug reports appreciated

2009-09-09 Thread Gregory Maxwell
On Wed, Sep 9, 2009 at 11:53 PM, Michel Alexandre Salim
michael.silva...@gmail.com wrote:
 On Tue, Sep 8, 2009 at 9:46 PM, Alexandre Oliva aol...@redhat.com wrote:
 Jakub built gcc-4.4.1-10 earlier today, with a new feature that
 generates much better debug information in optimized programs.

 The feature has been under development for a couple of years, and it's
 recently been accepted into GCC, for GCC 4.5.  We've backported it for
 Fedora 12.

 I'd appreciate if you Cc: me on any bug reports you hit that might be
 related with this new feature (GCC internal compiler errors, verify_ssa
 failures, crashes, etc).

 This bug affects LLVM on ppc:

 https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=522316

I don't see a more recent pass in Koji. Did you try compiling with
-fno-var-tracking-assignments  does it help?

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GCC var-tracking-assignments: testing and bug reports appreciated

2009-09-08 Thread Alexandre Oliva
Jakub built gcc-4.4.1-10 earlier today, with a new feature that
generates much better debug information in optimized programs.

The feature has been under development for a couple of years, and it's
recently been accepted into GCC, for GCC 4.5.  We've backported it for
Fedora 12.

I'd appreciate if you Cc: me on any bug reports you hit that might be
related with this new feature (GCC internal compiler errors, verify_ssa
failures, crashes, etc).

It's very important that any such bugs you run into be reported quickly:
I'm going to be around this week, full time, working on this, but my
network connectivity will be poor at best next week.

In case you suspect a problem might be caused by this new feature,
instead of say untagging the GCC build, please instead install a
temporary work-around in your package to compile with the flag
-fno-var-tracking-assignments.  If it compiles with this flag, the you
know I'm the culprit.  Mentioning the successful use of this work around
in the bug report may help prioritize the resolution of bugs.  If you
follow this path, I suggest also creating a bug report on your package,
blocked on the resolution of the GCC bug, so that, once the GCC bug is
fixed, you're reminded to remove the work-around.

Thanks in advance for your cooperation,

-- 
Alexandre Oliva, freedom fighterhttp://FSFLA.org/~lxoliva/
You must be the change you wish to see in the world. -- Gandhi
Be Free! -- http://FSFLA.org/   FSF Latin America board member
Free Software Evangelist  Red Hat Brazil Compiler Engineer

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