Re: GDM Language list...
Jens Petersen (peter...@redhat.com) said: > > The desktop spin in F11 still had language groups, AFAIK. > > Actually I removed them all at the very end of the F10 cycle (and then > reverted the change for the f10 branch of spin-kickstarts). Although, given that the translations are in the main packages in GNOME, and that the spin included both the fonts and input methods groups... I suspect it still functions as a multiple language spin. Bill -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
Re: GDM Language list...
> The desktop spin in F11 still had language groups, AFAIK. Actually I removed them all at the very end of the F10 cycle (and then reverted the change for the f10 branch of spin-kickstarts). So they are only for localized spins and fedora-install-fedora.ks(?) now. Jens -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
Re: GDM Language list...
On Wed, Jun 17, 2009 at 12:31:42AM +0200, Kevin Kofler wrote: >Bill Nottingham wrote: >> The desktop spin in F11 still had language groups, AFAIK. > >Uh no it doesn't, kde-l10n-* doesn't fit... oh wait, you mean the GNOME >spin! ;-) > >There's more than one desktop around. Why can't the GNOME spin be called >GNOME spin? You keep asking this as if that is going to actually change something. It's like when I walk around my house and mutter "why can't people just love ppc?" Nothing will change unless you submit a proposal to rename it to FESCo and quite possibly the Board. That isn't always true for everything, but in this case it seems warranted. josh -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
Re: GDM Language list...
Bill Nottingham wrote: > The desktop spin in F11 still had language groups, AFAIK. Uh no it doesn't, kde-l10n-* doesn't fit... oh wait, you mean the GNOME spin! ;-) There's more than one desktop around. Why can't the GNOME spin be called GNOME spin? Kevin Kofler -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
Re: GDM Language list...
Jens Petersen (peter...@redhat.com) said: > > My one concern with this is that the conditional stuff is also used > > on the compose side when making LiveCDs, etc. We need to make sure that > > still works somehow. > > Right. (Though since F11 we have dropped all the lang-support groups from > the default spins.) The desktop spin in F11 still had language groups, AFAIK. > Thanks for bringing it up - I see the potential weakness: > so would it be sufficient to ship the plugin by default then > or would livecd-tools need to pull it in? I don't know yet. Bill -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
Re: GDM Language list...
On Sunday, June 14 2009, Jens Petersen said: > - "Bill Nottingham" wrote: > > > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/YumLangpackPlugin > > > > My one concern with this is that the conditional stuff is also used > > on the compose side when making LiveCDs, etc. We need to make sure that > > still works somehow. > > Right. (Though since F11 we have dropped all the lang-support groups from > the default spins.) > > Thanks for bringing it up - I see the potential weakness: > so would it be sufficient to ship the plugin by default then > or would livecd-tools need to pull it in? livecd-tools doesn't use any plugins at present, so there'd be some work needed to ensure the right thing happened Jeremy -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
Re: GDM Language list...
- "Bill Nottingham" wrote: > > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/YumLangpackPlugin > > My one concern with this is that the conditional stuff is also used > on the compose side when making LiveCDs, etc. We need to make sure that > still works somehow. Right. (Though since F11 we have dropped all the lang-support groups from the default spins.) Thanks for bringing it up - I see the potential weakness: so would it be sufficient to ship the plugin by default then or would livecd-tools need to pull it in? Jens -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
Re: GDM Language list...
Jens Petersen (peter...@redhat.com) said: > - "Bill Nottingham" wrote: > > Well, there are languages we would support fine that don't have a > > specific language-support group (most anything that uses a Latin-1 > > like > > charset, and no specific input method.) Moreover, the groups that are > > installed aren't actually recorded anywhere on the installed system. > > (And having gdm attempt to discover/compute what groups are installed > > is completely impractical.) > > The YumLangpackPlugin Feature that I am planning to propose for F12 may help > with this providing langpack-support metapackages. > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/YumLangpackPlugin My one concern with this is that the conditional stuff is also used on the compose side when making LiveCDs, etc. We need to make sure that still works somehow. Bill -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
Re: GDM Language list...
Jens Petersen wrote: The YumLangpackPlugin Feature that I am planning to propose for F12 may help with this providing langpack-support metapackages. https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/YumLangpackPlugin About the gdm menu itself I chatted to Ankit earlier in the week and came up with this rfe: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=505484 asking if we could have some gdm system config to control which languages appear by default in the menu. Jens Thanks Jens. -- Regards, Ankit Patel http://www.indianoss.org/ -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
Re: GDM Language list...
- "Bill Nottingham" wrote: > Well, there are languages we would support fine that don't have a > specific language-support group (most anything that uses a Latin-1 > like > charset, and no specific input method.) Moreover, the groups that are > installed aren't actually recorded anywhere on the installed system. > (And having gdm attempt to discover/compute what groups are installed > is completely impractical.) The YumLangpackPlugin Feature that I am planning to propose for F12 may help with this providing langpack-support metapackages. https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/YumLangpackPlugin About the gdm menu itself I chatted to Ankit earlier in the week and came up with this rfe: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=505484 asking if we could have some gdm system config to control which languages appear by default in the menu. Jens -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
Re: GDM Language list...
On Fri, Jun 5, 2009 at 4:43 PM, Mathieu Bridon (bochecha) wrote: > 1. user chooses a language in GDM for the first time > 2. PK tries to install the -support group We need to come up with a system that isn't based on Fedora, as ubuntu might call this something different. In fedora we might install a group, in ubuntu they might install a metapackage. We can't have fedora'isms in upstream PackageKit. > 3. if this group exist and some packages could be installed (i.e. not > already installed), the user is presented a nice PK popup, just like > the font or codec install suggestion, but for the support of his > language Seems a sane idea, it just needs someone to implement it in gnome-packagekit. Richard. -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
Re: GDM Language list...
After discussion with Ray Strode, I realized that it's difficult to find a common solution that can work across distributions since GDM is an upstream package. Thanks for the discussion Ray. To me it looks an unsolvable problem if we stick to find an upstream solution. Of course, creating a downstream patch and maintaining it for a long time would be difficult too. But, I was wondering if we can have an upstream patch like below: if (fedora) check_for_installed_language_support else if (debian) check_for_abc_things else check_xyz Is it possible? Thanks! -- Regards, Ankit Patel http://www.indianoss.org/ -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
Re: GDM Language list...
Ankitkumar Rameshchandra Patel wrote: > There is yet another dependency of "internet connection" here... An Internet connection (and a reasonably fast one at that) is basically required to use Fedora effectively. Kevin Kofler -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
Re: GDM Language list...
Mathieu Bridon (bochecha) wrote: How about that: 1. user chooses a language in GDM for the first time 2. PK tries to install the -support group 3. if this group exist and some packages could be installed (i.e. not already installed), the user is presented a nice PK popup, just like the font or codec install suggestion, but for the support of his language If no packages need to be installed, then the user won't be bothered by an obtrusive popup. We can do it only the first time as, well, if it doesn't work the second time, then the user specifically chose not to install them or to remove one of the required packages There is yet another dependency of "internet connection" here... -- Regards, Ankit Patel http://www.indianoss.org/ -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
Re: GDM Language list...
Bill Nottingham wrote: Well, there are languages we would support fine that don't have a specific language-support group (most anything that uses a Latin-1 like charset, and no specific input method.) Moreover, the groups that are installed aren't actually recorded anywhere on the installed system. (And having gdm attempt to discover/compute what groups are installed is completely impractical.) Bill Well, there should be hard-coded list maintained for such languages, which doesn't require any specific support packages and those languages should be listed by default in gdm. But other languages, which requires specific packages' support, should be listed only if their support is (or support packages are) installed. As Ray has mentioned "GDM only show a language in the language list if ...locale, etc meet>..." that means GDM already does some checks, so I guess there should be some way to check the installed groups. -- Regards, Ankit Patel http://www.indianoss.org/ -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
Re: GDM Language list...
>> We only show a language in the language list if >> - language-support is installed (e.g. yum groupinstall chinese-support) > > Well, there are languages we would support fine that don't have a > specific language-support group (most anything that uses a Latin-1 like > charset, and no specific input method.) Moreover, the groups that are > installed aren't actually recorded anywhere on the installed system. > (And having gdm attempt to discover/compute what groups are installed > is completely impractical.) How about that: 1. user chooses a language in GDM for the first time 2. PK tries to install the -support group 3. if this group exist and some packages could be installed (i.e. not already installed), the user is presented a nice PK popup, just like the font or codec install suggestion, but for the support of his language If no packages need to be installed, then the user won't be bothered by an obtrusive popup. We can do it only the first time as, well, if it doesn't work the second time, then the user specifically chose not to install them or to remove one of the required packages. -- Mathieu Bridon (bochecha) -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
Re: GDM Language list...
Ankitkumar Rameshchandra Patel (an...@redhat.com) said: > I think above checks only ensures the technical (rather i18n) support > exists. But, what about the native language desktop users who expects > fedora to be equal for all languages (just like english)? > > How about, > > We only show a language in the language list if > - language-support is installed (e.g. yum groupinstall chinese-support) Well, there are languages we would support fine that don't have a specific language-support group (most anything that uses a Latin-1 like charset, and no specific input method.) Moreover, the groups that are installed aren't actually recorded anywhere on the installed system. (And having gdm attempt to discover/compute what groups are installed is completely impractical.) Bill -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
Re: GDM Language list...
Nicolas Mailhot wrote: Le Ven 5 juin 2009 17:03, Ray Strode a écrit : We only show a language in the language list if 1) It's got at least one translation in /usr/share/locale 2) it's recognized by libc as a valid utf8 locale 3) it's listed in iso-codes 4) it's got enough font converage to at least show it's own name in the language list. Please, the main use of the language list is to select a keyboard layout. All the keyboard defs are installed by default. Punting a user to qwerty just because those other bits are missing is not going to make anyone happy. Especially if the user password can not be typed using qwerty. Please, it's not only locale, libc, iso-codes, fonts or input-methods, but also translated applications like openoffice, firefox, etc. -- Regards, Ankit Patel http://www.indianoss.org/ -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
Re: GDM Language list...
Christoph Wickert wrote: By doing "yum install hindi-support"?! We cannot put all languages on the LiveCD because there is not enough space. Not only on LiveCD, but on Fedora main also, it's difficult to install all language-supports by default since it's very heavy task, as you said because of the space issue. So, that's the reason, I am requesting the GDM list to be shortened based on the language-supports installed. -- Regards, Ankit Patel http://www.indianoss.org/ -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
Re: GDM Language list...
Le Ven 5 juin 2009 17:03, Ray Strode a écrit : > > Hi, > >> 2. to GDM maintainers: Is it possible to change the list of >> languages >> dynamically (based on the language-supports installed) on the GDM >> login >> screen? > We only show a language in the language list if > > 1) It's got at least one translation in /usr/share/locale > 2) it's recognized by libc as a valid utf8 locale > 3) it's listed in iso-codes > 4) it's got enough font converage to at least show it's own name in > the language list. Please, the main use of the language list is to select a keyboard layout. All the keyboard defs are installed by default. Punting a user to qwerty just because those other bits are missing is not going to make anyone happy. Especially if the user password can not be typed using qwerty. -- Nicolas Mailhot -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
Re: GDM Language list...
Am Freitag, den 05.06.2009, 20:30 +0530 schrieb Ankitkumar Rameshchandra Patel: > Nicolas Mailhot wrote: > > Le Ven 5 juin 2009 15:06, Ankitkumar Rameshchandra Patel a écrit : > > > > > applications like gedit, nautilus showing square boxes instead of > > > Hindi text. > > > > > > > Actually, in F11 they'll show a nice popup suggesting to look for and > > autoinstall hindi fonts. So this part is already fixed (maybe not in > > all apps but in pango-based apps at least) > > > > > That's good to know. Thanks Nicolas. > > But, it's not only the matter of fonts, rather language support which > includes - fonts, input method (and maps), spell checker, openoffice > langpack, kde langpack and language packs for various other > applications. > > So, how are we going to solve those things? By doing "yum install hindi-support"?! We cannot put all languages on the LiveCD because there is not enough space. Currently the group hindi-support looks like this: > > hindi-support > <_name>Hindi Support > <_description/> > false > true > hi > > lohit-hindi-fonts > m17n-contrib-hindi > m17n-db-hindi > aspell-hi >requires="gcompris">gcompris-sound-hi >requires="hunspell">hunspell-hi > hyphen-hi >requires="xorg-x11-server-Xorg">ibus-m17n >requires="kdelibs3">kde-i18n-Hindi >requires="kdelibs">kde-l10n-Hindi > moodle-hi >requires="openoffice.org-core">openoffice.org-langpack-hi_IN > iok > samyak-devanagari-fonts > sarai-fonts > > Is there something you are missing? Regards, Christoph -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
Re: GDM Language list...
Ray Strode wrote: Hi, 2. to GDM maintainers: Is it possible to change the list of languages dynamically (based on the language-supports installed) on the GDM login screen? We only show a language in the language list if 1) It's got at least one translation in /usr/share/locale 2) it's recognized by libc as a valid utf8 locale 3) it's listed in iso-codes 4) it's got enough font converage to at least show it's own name in the language list. --Ray I think above checks only ensures the technical (rather i18n) support exists. But, what about the native language desktop users who expects fedora to be equal for all languages (just like english)? How about, We only show a language in the language list if - language-support is installed (e.g. yum groupinstall chinese-support) -- Regards, Ankit Patel http://www.indianoss.org/ -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
Re: GDM Language list...
On 6/5/09, Nicolas Mailhot wrote: > > > Le Ven 5 juin 2009 15:06, Ankitkumar Rameshchandra Patel a écrit : >> applications like gedit, nautilus showing square boxes instead of >> Hindi text. > > Actually, in F11 they'll show a nice popup suggesting to look for and > autoinstall hindi fonts. So this part is already fixed (maybe not in > all apps but in pango-based apps at least) https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/AutomaticFontInstallation Regards, Parag. -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
Re: GDM Language list...
Hi, > 2. to GDM maintainers: Is it possible to change the list of languages > dynamically (based on the language-supports installed) on the GDM login > screen? We only show a language in the language list if 1) It's got at least one translation in /usr/share/locale 2) it's recognized by libc as a valid utf8 locale 3) it's listed in iso-codes 4) it's got enough font converage to at least show it's own name in the language list. --Ray -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
Re: GDM Language list...
Nicolas Mailhot wrote: Le Ven 5 juin 2009 15:06, Ankitkumar Rameshchandra Patel a écrit : applications like gedit, nautilus showing square boxes instead of Hindi text. Actually, in F11 they'll show a nice popup suggesting to look for and autoinstall hindi fonts. So this part is already fixed (maybe not in all apps but in pango-based apps at least) That's good to know. Thanks Nicolas. But, it's not only the matter of fonts, rather language support which includes - fonts, input method (and maps), spell checker, openoffice langpack, kde langpack and language packs for various other applications. So, how are we going to solve those things? -- Regards, Ankit Patel http://www.indianoss.org/ -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
Re: GDM Language list...
Le Ven 5 juin 2009 15:06, Ankitkumar Rameshchandra Patel a écrit : > applications like gedit, nautilus showing square boxes instead of > Hindi text. Actually, in F11 they'll show a nice popup suggesting to look for and autoinstall hindi fonts. So this part is already fixed (maybe not in all apps but in pango-based apps at least) -- Nicolas Mailhot -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
GDM Language list...
Hi, A non-technical Fedora desktop user chooses X language (say Hindi) while logging in assuming that he will get everything working in Hindi (e.g. technically fonts, input methods, rendering, localized applications like Firefox, Openoffice, evolution, thunderbird, etc working). After logging in, he realize that most of the things are not working. e.g. Openoffice is entirely in English, Inputting (in Hindi) is not working, applications like gedit, nautilus showing square boxes instead of Hindi text. After this experience, person would definitely ask a question, why there is an option to choose a language even if there is no support for that language enabled? So, to answer that question, 1. to all: Should we change the list of languages dynamically from GDM login screen to satisfy the end users' (local language users') needs? 2. to GDM maintainers: Is it possible to change the list of languages dynamically (based on the language-supports installed) on the GDM login screen? Thanks! -- Regards, Ankit Patel http://www.indianoss.org/ -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
