Re: Last call for talking points - what makes you excited about F12?
On 08/18/2009 09:00 PM, Mel Chua wrote: > > PS: I know this is last-minute notice - sorry about that. We're still > learning how to do things on a schedule, and next time around we'll put > the call out here much earlier. Is there a particular reason today is the last day instead of some date closer to the release? Rahul -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
Re: Last call for talking points - what makes you excited about F12?
On Tue, Aug 18, 2009 at 4:30 PM, Mel Chua wrote: > If you've got a moment for some last-minute help... > > We (Marketing) will be freezing the F12 talking points list today, and are > still somewhat light in the "what makes Fedora awesome for admins and > developers?" categories. > > Right now we have "libguestfs and kvm improvements" for admins and "maybe > moblin" for developers, but there must be more - and more reasons why > they're awesome (why *is* libguestfs something that makes admins happy?). We > figured you would know. Please remove moblin. Its not a feature. Its been removed from the Feature list for F-12 (although I'm not sure why). Peter -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
Re: Last call for talking points - what makes you excited about F12?
PS: I know this is last-minute notice - sorry about that. We're still learning how to do things on a schedule, and next time around we'll put the call out here much earlier. Is there a particular reason today is the last day instead of some date closer to the release? We need to brief Ambassadors on Talking Points at Beta release (9/22) so they need to be complete by then, so we have to freeze the list asap to give us enough time to find writers, and give the writers enough time to write them. (http://poelstra.fedorapeople.org/schedules/f-12/f-12-marketing-tasks.html) (Feel free to push back if this schedule sounds unreasonable, btw; it probably could use some patches for the next cycle in terms of having more time for getting dev feedback.) --Mel -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
Re: Last call for talking points - what makes you excited about F12?
On 08/18/2009 10:15 PM, Mel Chua wrote: >>> PS: I know this is last-minute notice - sorry about that. We're still >>> learning how to do things on a schedule, and next time around we'll put >>> the call out here much earlier. >> >> Is there a particular reason today is the last day instead of some date >> closer to the release? > > We need to brief Ambassadors on Talking Points at Beta release (9/22) so > they need to be complete by then, so we have to freeze the list asap to > give us enough time to find writers, and give the writers enough time to > write them. > (http://poelstra.fedorapeople.org/schedules/f-12/f-12-marketing-tasks.html) > > (Feel free to push back if this schedule sounds unreasonable, btw; it > probably could use some patches for the next cycle in terms of having > more time for getting dev feedback.) The schedule itself might have been fine but it still looks rather early to me. If you want to collect feedback from developers, one day is definitely not going to be enough. Atleast three days or so needs to be provided and you usually need more than one reminder to get as much feedback as you can. Otherwise you are going to end up with a rather small list which is not meaningful. Rahul -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
Re: Last call for talking points - what makes you excited about F12?
Peter Robinson said the following on 08/18/2009 09:42 AM Pacific Time: On Tue, Aug 18, 2009 at 4:30 PM, Mel Chua wrote: If you've got a moment for some last-minute help... We (Marketing) will be freezing the F12 talking points list today, and are still somewhat light in the "what makes Fedora awesome for admins and developers?" categories. Right now we have "libguestfs and kvm improvements" for admins and "maybe moblin" for developers, but there must be more - and more reasons why they're awesome (why *is* libguestfs something that makes admins happy?). We figured you would know. Please remove moblin. Its not a feature. Its been removed from the Feature list for F-12 (although I'm not sure why). Peter FESCo dropped it because it was not considered ready. http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting/2009-08-07/fedora-meeting.2009-08-07-17.00.html -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
Re: Last call for talking points - what makes you excited about F12?
On 08/18/2009 10:12 PM, Peter Robinson wrote: > On Tue, Aug 18, 2009 at 4:30 PM, Mel Chua wrote: >> If you've got a moment for some last-minute help... >> >> We (Marketing) will be freezing the F12 talking points list today, and are >> still somewhat light in the "what makes Fedora awesome for admins and >> developers?" categories. >> >> Right now we have "libguestfs and kvm improvements" for admins and "maybe >> moblin" for developers, but there must be more - and more reasons why >> they're awesome (why *is* libguestfs something that makes admins happy?). We >> figured you would know. > > Please remove moblin. Its not a feature. Its been removed from the > Feature list for F-12 (although I'm not sure why). If you are the feature owner and do not know why it is being dropped, the meeting mins when it was decided by FESCo should have some rationale. If not, please ask again. The work is definitely most appreciated anyway. Rahul -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
Re: Last call for talking points - what makes you excited about F12?
(http://poelstra.fedorapeople.org/schedules/f-12/f-12-marketing-tasks.html) (Feel free to push back if this schedule sounds unreasonable, btw; it probably could use some patches for the next cycle in terms of having more time for getting dev feedback.) The schedule itself might have been fine but it still looks rather early to me. If you want to collect feedback from developers, one day is definitely not going to be enough. Atleast three days or so needs to be provided and you usually need more than one reminder to get as much feedback as you can. Otherwise you are going to end up with a rather small list which is not meaningful. Yep. I agree completely - time for developer/admin feedback isn't built into the marketing schedule, but should be. I'll make sure this gets changed for F13. (https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Talk:Marketing_F12_schedule) Thanks for the feedback on feedback. :) --Mel -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
Re: Last call for talking points - what makes you excited about F12?
On Tue, Aug 18, 2009 at 5:50 PM, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > On 08/18/2009 10:12 PM, Peter Robinson wrote: >> On Tue, Aug 18, 2009 at 4:30 PM, Mel Chua wrote: >>> If you've got a moment for some last-minute help... >>> >>> We (Marketing) will be freezing the F12 talking points list today, and are >>> still somewhat light in the "what makes Fedora awesome for admins and >>> developers?" categories. >>> >>> Right now we have "libguestfs and kvm improvements" for admins and "maybe >>> moblin" for developers, but there must be more - and more reasons why >>> they're awesome (why *is* libguestfs something that makes admins happy?). We >>> figured you would know. >> >> Please remove moblin. Its not a feature. Its been removed from the >> Feature list for F-12 (although I'm not sure why). > > If you are the feature owner and do not know why it is being dropped, > the meeting mins when it was decided by FESCo should have some > rationale. If not, please ask again. The fesco meeting notes posted to the list are one of the hardest things I've ever tried to read. I'm not sure if there's a nice annotated version somewhere else but I've never had much luck searching the wiki using anything other than google. Peter -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
Re: Last call for talking points - what makes you excited about F12?
On Tue, 2009-08-18 at 22:18 +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > On 08/18/2009 10:15 PM, Mel Chua wrote: > >>> PS: I know this is last-minute notice - sorry about that. We're still > >>> learning how to do things on a schedule, and next time around we'll put > >>> the call out here much earlier. > >> > >> Is there a particular reason today is the last day instead of some date > >> closer to the release? > > > > We need to brief Ambassadors on Talking Points at Beta release (9/22) so > > they need to be complete by then, so we have to freeze the list asap to > > give us enough time to find writers, and give the writers enough time to > > write them. > > (http://poelstra.fedorapeople.org/schedules/f-12/f-12-marketing-tasks.html) > > > > (Feel free to push back if this schedule sounds unreasonable, btw; it > > probably could use some patches for the next cycle in terms of having > > more time for getting dev feedback.) > > The schedule itself might have been fine but it still looks rather early > to me. If you want to collect feedback from developers, one day is > definitely not going to be enough. Atleast three days or so needs to be > provided and you usually need more than one reminder to get as much > feedback as you can. Otherwise you are going to end up with a rather > small list which is not meaningful. To a first approximation, the relevant information should already be in the feature pages, no ? I don't think it is wise to establish the feature process as painfully as we've done over the last few releases, only to then start new, different initiatives to collect marketing talking points... -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
Re: Last call for talking points - what makes you excited about F12?
On Tue, 18 Aug 2009, Matthias Clasen wrote: > On Tue, 2009-08-18 at 22:18 +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > > On 08/18/2009 10:15 PM, Mel Chua wrote: > > >>> PS: I know this is last-minute notice - sorry about that. We're still > > >>> learning how to do things on a schedule, and next time around we'll put > > >>> the call out here much earlier. > > >> > > >> Is there a particular reason today is the last day instead of some date > > >> closer to the release? > > > > > > We need to brief Ambassadors on Talking Points at Beta release (9/22) so > > > they need to be complete by then, so we have to freeze the list asap to > > > give us enough time to find writers, and give the writers enough time to > > > write them. > > > (http://poelstra.fedorapeople.org/schedules/f-12/f-12-marketing-tasks.html) > > > > > > (Feel free to push back if this schedule sounds unreasonable, btw; it > > > probably could use some patches for the next cycle in terms of having > > > more time for getting dev feedback.) > > > > The schedule itself might have been fine but it still looks rather early > > to me. If you want to collect feedback from developers, one day is > > definitely not going to be enough. Atleast three days or so needs to be > > provided and you usually need more than one reminder to get as much > > feedback as you can. Otherwise you are going to end up with a rather > > small list which is not meaningful. > > To a first approximation, the relevant information should already be in > the feature pages, no ? I don't think it is wise to establish the > feature process as painfully as we've done over the last few releases, > only to then start new, different initiatives to collect marketing > talking points... > I think the point is to take the technical feature list and sort of run a filter around it so it's more general purpose / markety. Additionally I don't see any need to tie talking points and marketing directly to the feature list in a 1:1 because we may miss things. -Mike -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
Re: Last call for talking points - what makes you excited about F12?
On Tue, Aug 18, 2009 at 01:15:27PM -0400, Matthias Clasen wrote: > On Tue, 2009-08-18 at 22:18 +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > > On 08/18/2009 10:15 PM, Mel Chua wrote: > > >>> PS: I know this is last-minute notice - sorry about that. We're still > > >>> learning how to do things on a schedule, and next time around we'll put > > >>> the call out here much earlier. > > >> > > >> Is there a particular reason today is the last day instead of some date > > >> closer to the release? > > > > > > We need to brief Ambassadors on Talking Points at Beta release (9/22) so > > > they need to be complete by then, so we have to freeze the list asap to > > > give us enough time to find writers, and give the writers enough time to > > > write them. > > > (http://poelstra.fedorapeople.org/schedules/f-12/f-12-marketing-tasks.html) > > > > > > (Feel free to push back if this schedule sounds unreasonable, btw; it > > > probably could use some patches for the next cycle in terms of having > > > more time for getting dev feedback.) > > > > The schedule itself might have been fine but it still looks rather early > > to me. If you want to collect feedback from developers, one day is > > definitely not going to be enough. Atleast three days or so needs to be > > provided and you usually need more than one reminder to get as much > > feedback as you can. Otherwise you are going to end up with a rather > > small list which is not meaningful. > > To a first approximation, the relevant information should already be in > the feature pages, no ? I don't think it is wise to establish the > feature process as painfully as we've done over the last few releases, > only to then start new, different initiatives to collect marketing > talking points... The talking points really do come from the feature pages, and to that end I revisited the feature list to pull out a couple features that are comprehensible and interesting for developers, and added them to the developer-centric talking points. The list for each audience (desktop users, sysadmins, developers) is short, as it should be. We do have entries in the list now, although we'll be fleshing them out with more descriptive information over the next few days. The purpose of the talking points is to call out specific features, so Ambassadors and other people can explain what they are to a variety of audiences, and why they're important in terms of advancing FOSS. To do this, we develop additional material like podcast and print interviews with the people responsible for or involved with the features. Developing that material takes time and energy so it behooves us to get an early start, shortly after feature freeze since the list is complete at that point. The list is short so that we can concentrate on the most compelling features from the audience's standpoint. So yes, the feature pages have a lot from which we can pull at this point. -- Paul W. Frieldshttp://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 http://redhat.com/ - - - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
Re: Last call for talking points - what makes you excited about F12?
On Tue, Aug 18, 2009 at 12:27:53PM -0500, Mike McGrath wrote: > On Tue, 18 Aug 2009, Matthias Clasen wrote: > > > On Tue, 2009-08-18 at 22:18 +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > > > On 08/18/2009 10:15 PM, Mel Chua wrote: > > > >>> PS: I know this is last-minute notice - sorry about that. We're still > > > >>> learning how to do things on a schedule, and next time around we'll > > > >>> put > > > >>> the call out here much earlier. > > > >> > > > >> Is there a particular reason today is the last day instead of some date > > > >> closer to the release? > > > > > > > > We need to brief Ambassadors on Talking Points at Beta release (9/22) so > > > > they need to be complete by then, so we have to freeze the list asap to > > > > give us enough time to find writers, and give the writers enough time to > > > > write them. > > > > (http://poelstra.fedorapeople.org/schedules/f-12/f-12-marketing-tasks.html) > > > > > > > > (Feel free to push back if this schedule sounds unreasonable, btw; it > > > > probably could use some patches for the next cycle in terms of having > > > > more time for getting dev feedback.) > > > > > > The schedule itself might have been fine but it still looks rather early > > > to me. If you want to collect feedback from developers, one day is > > > definitely not going to be enough. Atleast three days or so needs to be > > > provided and you usually need more than one reminder to get as much > > > feedback as you can. Otherwise you are going to end up with a rather > > > small list which is not meaningful. > > > > To a first approximation, the relevant information should already be in > > the feature pages, no ? I don't think it is wise to establish the > > feature process as painfully as we've done over the last few releases, > > only to then start new, different initiatives to collect marketing > > talking points... > > > > I think the point is to take the technical feature list and sort of run a > filter around it so it's more general purpose / markety. Additionally I > don't see any need to tie talking points and marketing directly to the > feature list in a 1:1 because we may miss things. That's fairly dead on, Mike. We can include an item beyond the feature list if there's a compelling story to tell the appropriate audience about that item. These talking points become the basis for Ambassadors to talk to their local communities, I often refer to them in interviews with press, and so forth. -- Paul W. Frieldshttp://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 http://redhat.com/ - - - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
