Re: Xorg and multitouch
On Wed, Nov 18, 2009 at 12:09:48PM -0500, Jarod Wilson wrote: > On 11/17/09 9:14 PM, Chris Ball wrote: > >Hi, > > > >> Multitouch means, several mousepointers and you can move them all > >> seperately. > > > >No, that's what multi-pointer means. Multi-Pointer X is already in > >F12. > ... > >Multitouch refers to technologies that involve extrapolating from > >motion of finger-shaped blobs on your input device to the idea that > >a user has performed some continuous motion with said finger(s), and > >reacting appropriately. It's not the same as multi-pointer X, but it > >does use the same core technology. > > Isn't two-finger-drag for scrolling and two-finger-taps for > right-click a form of multitouch? Or are we talking about extending > that to pinch, rotate, etc? There's a very subtle difference between multi-pointer and multi-touch and the term multi-touch is quite overloaded. In general, multi-pointer means you have multiple virtual input points that are used simultaneously. The input points are distinct and trackable over time though it is not always possible to map input points to users. Compare two-handed input with multi-user input (or the combination of both). This is implemented by providing two or more mouse cursors and keyboard foci. Multi-touch in its very literal term is direct-touch input providing multiple points simultanously. Multi-touch can be multi-pointer provided you treat each input point as a distinct point. E.g. using two fingers to do what you could do with a mouse, or two users simultaneously using one or more fingers as a pointing device. This is supported, though we have some work to do in terms of getting this from the hardware to the server. Next level up is using touch not only as a single point of input but rather as a shape or area of input - it matters if you use a palm, fist, finger, finger-tip, etc. Instead of x/y you have a lot more information now about the nature of the touch. Multi-touch here is the same as multi-pointer with more information per touch. We don't have that one yet. Next level up is using touch as a number of transient, non-connected physical input points/areas that are harder to map to virtual input points. Putting all 5 fingers of one hand down to perform an action is not the same as using 5 mouse cursors. Putting the two index fingers down otoh is. That's where it gets tricky, especially in the light of multiple users and windowed environments. We don't have support for that type of multi-touch yet. That's a high-level view, there are some more details for each I've omitted. Gestures are largely independent of the level of multipointer/multitouch support. You can do pinch with two mouse pointers, to finger touches or some fancy multi-touch input. We have some rudimentary support for gestures (two-finger scrolling + tapping) but nothing elborate. We could do bits and pieces in the driver, but we lack a meaningful way to send the information to the client. Cheers, Peter -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
Re: Xorg and multitouch
On 11/18/2009 11:38 PM, Ikem Krueger wrote: >> Xorg has a lot of catching up to do. Just be patient. > > I am not very good at it. xD Alternatively, make yourself busy by contributing :-) Help us. http://join.fedoraproject.org Rahul -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
Re: Xorg and multitouch
> Xorg has a lot of catching up to do. Just be patient. I am not very good at it. xD -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
Re: Xorg and multitouch
On 11/18/2009 07:04 AM, Ikem Krueger wrote: >> The X level support is already in F12 - see: >> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/XI2 >> Application level support will come later > > Do you know when? > > I ask, because Windows and Mac OS already have them and Linux is a bit > behind with it. Nevertheless I believe that our implementation will be > better. ^^ Xorg has a lot of catching up to do. Just be patient. Rahul -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
Re: Xorg and multitouch
On 11/17/09 9:14 PM, Chris Ball wrote: Hi, > Multitouch means, several mousepointers and you can move them all > seperately. No, that's what multi-pointer means. Multi-Pointer X is already in F12. ... Multitouch refers to technologies that involve extrapolating from motion of finger-shaped blobs on your input device to the idea that a user has performed some continuous motion with said finger(s), and reacting appropriately. It's not the same as multi-pointer X, but it does use the same core technology. Isn't two-finger-drag for scrolling and two-finger-taps for right-click a form of multitouch? Or are we talking about extending that to pinch, rotate, etc? -- Jarod Wilson ja...@redhat.com -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
Re: Xorg and multitouch
Hi, > Multitouch means, several mousepointers and you can move them all > seperately. No, that's what multi-pointer means. Multi-Pointer X is already in F12. > Gesture support is, you make a certain sign with a mousepointer, > and a certain action is triggered. > > Would be cool to see both together. I mean, several independent > mousepointers, with each you can make a different gesture and > different actions are triggered. ^^ I'm sure you can achieve this gesture support today, again using MPX in F12. Multitouch refers to technologies that involve extrapolating from motion of finger-shaped blobs on your input device to the idea that a user has performed some continuous motion with said finger(s), and reacting appropriately. It's not the same as multi-pointer X, but it does use the same core technology. - Chris. -- Chris Ball One Laptop Per Child -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
Re: Xorg and multitouch
> Is multi-touch the same as gesture support? As I know, nope. Multitouch means, several mousepointers and you can move them all seperately. Gesture support is, you make a certain sign with a mousepointer, and a certain action is triggered. Would be cool to see both together. I mean, several independent mousepointers, with each you can make a different gesture and different actions are triggered. ^^ -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
Re: Xorg and multitouch
> The X level support is already in F12 - see: > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/XI2 > Application level support will come later Do you know when? I ask, because Windows and Mac OS already have them and Linux is a bit behind with it. Nevertheless I believe that our implementation will be better. ^^ -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
Re: Xorg and multitouch
Am 2009-11-18 00:19, schrieb Adam Williamson: On Tue, 2009-11-17 at 22:44 +, Ikem Krueger wrote: Some news? Planned for Fedora 13? The X level support is already in F12 - see http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/XI2 . Application level support will come later Is multi-touch the same as gesture support? -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
Re: Xorg and multitouch
On Tue, 2009-11-17 at 22:44 +, Ikem Krueger wrote: > Some news? Planned for Fedora 13? The X level support is already in F12 - see http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/XI2 . Application level support will come later -- Adam Williamson Fedora QA Community Monkey IRC: adamw | Fedora Talk: adamwill AT fedoraproject DOT org http://www.happyassassin.net -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
