Re: how to determain those no longer required packages
James Antill wrote: ATM we don't carry reason=dep across updates To ask the obvious... why not? An update is not necessarily a user action (I run 'yum upgrade -y' in cron jobs on two machines, and may start doing it on more). IMO updating an existing package should *never* change the reason. Installing a package via update should only set reason=user if the package was named in the arguments to yum (which should be the behavior also for 'yum install', actually). ...and I suppose 'yum update' should warn when updating a package named in the arguments if that package is not marked reason=user. (Why not auto-mark? Because maybe I am updating a library to fix a bug in some dependent program I use; I probably don't care about keeping that library if I later remove the program that needs it.) Probably the sanest request here is that if you do: 1. yum install blah 2. try out blah, don't like it 3. yum remove blah ...you don't get rid of any extra stuff you got with blah, hopefully yum history undo will solve that in a better way by recording what happened at #1 and undoing it instead of trying to piece together what might have happened at #1 after the fact. Actually, I disagree. Let's say I install bar, with dependencies cow and pig. Then I install foo with dependencies cow and dog. What I would like to see happen is 'yum remove bar' removes bar and pig (but not cow, because foo needs it). If I then later 'yum remove foo', that should take care of foo, cow and dog. 'history undo' only works if nothing happens between the request to undo, and the action being undone (or else intervening actions have a net effect of nothing). If reason worked correctly, I don't see a problem with 'yum remove' always removing dependencies when no longer needed. ¹ It's also true that saving 1 cent of disk space isn't at the top of my list of things to do. Unneeded packages don't just use disk space, they also use CPU, network bandwidth, and cause excess disk wear due to the stream of updates for packages you don't need. (Plus that they can add up.) And I've mentioned before that I hate this 'disk space is cheap' argument; it doesn't (yet) apply to SSD's and its rooted in the make the user buy better hardware attitude that IMO is a very bad thing. -- Matthew Please do not quote my e-mail address unobfuscated in message bodies. -- Hey! Where's the witty punchline? (with apologies to Hostess) -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
Re: how to determain those no longer required packages
On Wed, 2 Sep 2009, Matthew Woehlke wrote: James Antill wrote: ATM we don't carry reason=dep across updates To ask the obvious... why not? B/c it's not been implemented, yet. The yumdb code has only really been in use since shortly after f11 came out. -sv -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
Re: how to determain those no longer required packages
On Sat, 2009-08-29 at 19:06 -0500, Jason L Tibbitts III wrote: AT == Axel Thimm axel.th...@atrpms.net writes: AT I don't think apt traces whether a packages was a pulled in manually AT or automatically, does it? yum does keep track of many things in the yumdb and I think the reason key is supposed to track this, but for me it seems reason is always user. I think the intent is to track packages which were installed because the user requested them directly separately from packages which were pulled in purely because of dependencies. Yes, the reason attribute in yumdb is there primarily to start on solving this problem. yumdb hasn't been around an entire release yet, which makes it's data somewhat problematic (and the testing somewhat limited). Also atm. we don't carry reason=dep across updates, so if you do yum update with a new version of a package you got as a dep. that would be considered a user install of the new package. Both of which should explain why almost nothing has reason=dep¹. Atm. I have: % yumdb search reason dep Loaded plugins: presto fipscheck-1.2.0-1a.fc11.x86_64 reason = dep ...so it does work, at what it does atm. Probably the sanest request here is that if you do: 1. yum install blah 2. try out blah, don't like it 3. yum remove blah ...you don't get rid of any extra stuff you got with blah, hopefully yum history undo will solve that in a better way by recording what happened at #1 and undoing it instead of trying to piece together what might have happened at #1 after the fact. ¹ It's also true that saving 1 cent of disk space isn't at the top of my list of things to do. -- James Antill ja...@fedoraproject.org Fedora -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
Re: how to determain those no longer required packages
On Mon, 31 Aug 2009, James Antill wrote: ...you don't get rid of any extra stuff you got with blah, hopefully yum history undo will solve that in a better way by recording what happened at #1 and undoing it instead of trying to piece together what might have happened at #1 after the fact. let's not go promising things like yum history undo which are not committed, not tested and, in the case of large update/install transactions, unlikely to do what the user wants. -sv -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
Re: how to determain those no longer required packages
On Mon, Aug 31, 2009 at 10:42:12AM -0400, James Antill wrote: On Sat, 2009-08-29 at 19:06 -0500, Jason L Tibbitts III wrote: AT == Axel Thimm axel.th...@atrpms.net writes: AT I don't think apt traces whether a packages was a pulled in manually AT or automatically, does it? yum does keep track of many things in the yumdb and I think the reason key is supposed to track this, but for me it seems reason is always user. I think the intent is to track packages which were installed because the user requested them directly separately from packages which were pulled in purely because of dependencies. Yes, the reason attribute in yumdb is there primarily to start on solving this problem. This sounds like a nice addition to yum, I hadn't heard yet of the yumdb! Will other frontends like PackageKit also pass down this information to yum (e.g. which packages are user chosen, which are automatically pulled in), so the yumdb info is universal? -- Axel.Thimm at ATrpms.net pgpc3IaYxTfYw.pgp Description: PGP signature -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
Re: how to determain those no longer required packages
On Sat, Aug 29, 2009 at 5:54 AM, Ray Chenchenrano2...@163.com wrote: If the package has been installed automatically as a dependency of another package, and if no packages depend on it anymore, the package is no longer required. Do YUM codes have the same function as 'isAutoRemovable' feature?? or how to determine such no longer required rpm packages using yum CLIs? Try package-cleanup from yum-utils. Cheers, -- Michel -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
Re: how to determain those no longer required packages
Thanks, package-cleanup is what I want:) -Ray 在 2009-08-29六的 03:29 -0400，Michel Alexandre Salim写道： On Sat, Aug 29, 2009 at 5:54 AM, Ray Chenchenrano2...@163.com wrote: If the package has been installed automatically as a dependency of another package, and if no packages depend on it anymore, the package is no longer required. Do YUM codes have the same function as 'isAutoRemovable' feature?? or how to determine such no longer required rpm packages using yum CLIs? Try package-cleanup from yum-utils. Cheers, -- Michel -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
Re: how to determain those no longer required packages
rpmreaper may be handy for that too... Regards, Milos Dne 29.8.2009 19:07, Ray Chen napsal(a): Thanks, package-cleanup is what I want:) -Ray 在 2009-08-29六的 03:29 -0400，Michel Alexandre Salim写道： On Sat, Aug 29, 2009 at 5:54 AM, Ray Chenchenrano2...@163.com wrote: If the package has been installed automatically as a dependency of another package, and if no packages depend on it anymore, the package is no longer required. Do YUM codes have the same function as 'isAutoRemovable' feature?? or how to determine such no longer required rpm packages using yum CLIs? Try package-cleanup from yum-utils. Cheers, -- Michel -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
Re: how to determain those no longer required packages
rpmreaper is NOT installed by default, I want use yum API in scripts to remove unnecessary packages. The key is that how to determine the unnecessary packages. so that I can remove safely to save disk. Would you like show me more details?? What packages are unnecessary packages? Thanks, Ray 在 2009-08-29六的 13:46 +0200，Milos Jakubicek写道： rpmreaper may be handy for that too... Regards, Milos Dne 29.8.2009 19:07, Ray Chen napsal(a): Thanks, package-cleanup is what I want:) -Ray 在 2009-08-29六的 03:29 -0400，Michel Alexandre Salim写道： On Sat, Aug 29, 2009 at 5:54 AM, Ray Chenchenrano2...@163.com wrote: If the package has been installed automatically as a dependency of another package, and if no packages depend on it anymore, the package is no longer required. Do YUM codes have the same function as 'isAutoRemovable' feature?? or how to determine such no longer required rpm packages using yum CLIs? Try package-cleanup from yum-utils. Cheers, -- Michel -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
Re: how to determain those no longer required packages
Dne 29.8.2009 22:46, Ray Chen napsal(a): rpmreaper is NOT installed by default, I want use yum API in scripts to remove unnecessary packages. Rpmreaper doesn't use yum API, it's pure rpm-based. For usage refer to the relevant manpage (man rpmreaper), you might be especially insterested in something like rpmreaper -lv | grep LEAF Cheers, Milos -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
Re: how to determain those no longer required packages
On Sun, 30 Aug 2009, Ray Chen wrote: Thanks, package-cleanup is what I want:) -Ray install the plugin: remove-with-leaves then you can enable it when you want to remove a package and have yum remove anything that the pkg depends on that nothing else depends on. -sv -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
Re: how to determain those no longer required packages
warning: leaves in package-cleanup or remove-with-leaves could be your preferred application because it's a leaf [ie. no installed package depends on it, eg. pidgin or uget] there is a flag in conf of remove-with-leaves to exclude non-library binary packages from being removed Yum does not trace if some package is installed per user request or pulled for dependency -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
Re: how to determain those no longer required packages
在 2009-08-29六的 17:32 +0300，Muayyad AlSadi写道： warning: leaves in package-cleanup or remove-with-leaves could be your preferred application because it's a leaf [ie. no installed package depends on it, eg. pidgin or uget] The output of package-cleanup --leaves or remove-with-leaves doesn't include pidgin or uget package on my F10 system. there is a flag in conf of remove-with-leaves to exclude non-library binary packages from being removed Yum does not trace if some package is installed per user request or pulled for dependency yes, that's the question. seems like yum doesn't have the feature like 'isAutoRemovable' in APT. I think this feature is good for users, hope yum developers can support this feature, or make 'package-cleanup --leaves' and 'remove-with-leaves' plugin more stable. Thanks, Ray -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
Re: how to determain those no longer required packages
On Saturday 29 August 2009, Muayyad AlSadi wrote: warning: leaves in package-cleanup or remove-with-leaves could be your preferred application because it's a leaf [ie. no installed package depends on it, eg. pidgin or uget] FWIW, there's also a show-leaves plugin which just lists installed packages that became leaves after a transaction. Compared to remove-with-leaves, it doesn't remove anything, and lists new leaf packages also after install/update transactions in addition to erase ones. -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
Re: how to determain those no longer required packages
On Sun, Aug 30, 2009 at 07:21:30AM +0800, Ray Chen wrote: 在 2009-08-29六的 17:32 +0300，Muayyad AlSadi写道： warning: leaves in package-cleanup or remove-with-leaves could be your preferred application because it's a leaf [ie. no installed package depends on it, eg. pidgin or uget] Yum does not trace if some package is installed per user request or pulled for dependency yes, that's the question. seems like yum doesn't have the feature like 'isAutoRemovable' in APT. I think this feature is good for users, hope yum developers can support this feature, or make 'package-cleanup --leaves' and 'remove-with-leaves' plugin more stable. I don't think apt traces whether a packages was a pulled in manually or automatically, does it? If so where does it store that information? And if that information were from invokations of apt-get only (e.g. stored under /var/*/apt) then it would miss yum, yumex, PackageKit, smart etc. interactions. But it would be a usefull feature for yum probably requiring an origin field in the rpmdb to remember whether the user or the system pulled in the package. -- Axel.Thimm at ATrpms.net pgpFVfaQTLyN6.pgp Description: PGP signature -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
Re: how to determain those no longer required packages
AT == Axel Thimm axel.th...@atrpms.net writes: AT I don't think apt traces whether a packages was a pulled in manually AT or automatically, does it? yum does keep track of many things in the yumdb and I think the reason key is supposed to track this, but for me it seems reason is always user. I think the intent is to track packages which were installed because the user requested them directly separately from packages which were pulled in purely because of dependencies. - J -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
how to determain those no longer required packages
I'm reading APT and YUM source codes recently, and met the following question: for class apt.package.Package, there are a function isAutoRemovable, which means: http://apt.alioth.debian.org/python-apt-doc/apt/package.html?highlight=isautoremovable#apt.package.Package.isAutoRemovable Return True if the package is no longer required. If the package has been installed automatically as a dependency of another package, and if no packages depend on it anymore, the package is no longer required. Do YUM codes have the same function as 'isAutoRemovable' feature?? or how to determine such no longer required rpm packages using yum CLIs? Thanks, Ray -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
