Re: Suitability of Python for daemon processes

2009-10-28 Thread Ben Boeckel
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Hash: SHA256

Mike McLean wrote:

> On Mon, Oct 26, 2009 at 12:41 AM, Dennis Gilmore  wrote:
>> On Sunday 25 October 2009 06:26:49 pm Jeroen van Meeuwen wrote:
>>> And koji.fedoraproject.org, no?
>> koji is a mod_python app.  it doesnt run as a daemon at all.
>> but it it all python.
> 
> There are python daemons in the system though. The builders run kojid,
> which is a daemon, and the process that triggers repo regeneration
> (kojira) is a daemon. Of course, these are not public facing -- they
> really only talk to the hub.
> 
> The daemon distinction might be wrong thing to fixate on here. There
> is nothing in that distinction that should exclude python (or most any
> language). I think the real factors of concern are: size, complexity,
> speed, system load, robustness, and security.
True. I think the speed at which we can deliver with Python makes it much more 
attractive, even if not just at first. We could something similar to what git 
did with bash and replace the Python with C incrementally if necessary, but I 
think that if we go about it right, it shouldn't be much of an issue.

> It's entirely possible to create large and complex systems with
> Python. It's expressiveness and interpreted nature are a big help
> here. Robustness is probably more a factor of design and good coding
> than the language itself. That being said, the relative ease of
> programming in Python, coupled with its exception handling, likely
> give it an advantage over C in this department (over the same
> development time at least). That's my opinion; others may disagree
> (and of course Python is not the only rapid development language with
> good exception handling).
I agree here. This thread is a fact-finding mission and research. We wanted to 
make sure we weren't headed down the wrong road before we headed out.

> Security threats are everywhere. With Python at least you have to
> worry much less about buffer overflows, but of course you can
> introduce security flaws in any language.
Of course.

> Obviously, as an interpreted language, system load and speed are where
> Python suffers. There are optimization tricks, but you'll never get
> close to execution speed of C. You can rewrite crucial portions in C,
> though I rarely see that actually done.
One place where we had concerns were when dealing with the "shopping list" I 
referred to elsewhere in the thread. This list is 60MB on one of the Ubuntu 
mirror directories we have here (our Fedora mirror has been decommissioned 
while 
we await more disk space). I imagine Fedora's will be much larger due to the 
drpm files and secondary architectures put even more into it. We have code that 
is able to extract information without loading the entire file into our process 
space. It's very close to what it would be if it were C except for a .split() 
call on a string (but it's simple enough that a sscanf could do it as well if 
needed) and the memory/strcmp stuff Python has baked in. Hopefully we will have 
unit tests and timing on our code this weekend.

- --Ben
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Re: Suitability of Python for daemon processes

2009-10-28 Thread Ben Boeckel
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Toshio Kuratomi wrote:

> On Wed, Oct 28, 2009 at 05:08:03PM -0400, Mike McLean wrote:
>> On Mon, Oct 26, 2009 at 12:41 AM, Dennis Gilmore  wrote:
>> 
>> The daemon distinction might be wrong thing to fixate on here. There
>> is nothing in that distinction that should exclude python (or most any
>> language). I think the real factors of concern are: size, complexity,
>> speed, system load, robustness, and security.
>> 
>  By and large I agree with you. One thing further to think about is that
> becoming dependent on a tool written in an interpreted language means that
> you need to install that language on your system and may become tied to a
> specific version of that language.  In theory, this shouldn't be worse than
> tying yourself to a specific C library but in practice I've found that
> parallel installing interpreters and their libraries is a lot less supported
> than parallel installing a C lib.
Hopefully we have 2.4 as the minimum version. I'm pretty sure 2.4 is ubiquitous 
even on the enterprise-y distributions, but if we need older, we can try for 
that as well.

> Using python in Fedora Infrastructure probably isn't too big a deal as we
> have abundant python programmers here to port things forward if the main
> developers don't but it is something to consider with other languages or
> in other environments.
We're aiming to get it to work on RHEL/CentOS 4 (base, not + EPEL) and Debian 
stable so that current mirrors running systems that old don't need to upgrade 
the OS to start using our software (I'm pretty sure we have the hardware to run 
test instances of the software with various setups). If the libraries we end up 
using just aren't available, I think RHEL 5 will be a suitable minimum. When 
Python 3 comes looming over any distribution that starts using our software, we 
should be able to help port things over. I'd expect Fedora to be the first for 
this to happen to, but I could see Gentoo having howtos for getting 3.0 as the 
main Python before that (not that servers would be running such a setup 
anyways).

> -Toshio

- --Ben
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Re: Suitability of Python for daemon processes

2009-10-28 Thread Toshio Kuratomi
On Wed, Oct 28, 2009 at 05:08:03PM -0400, Mike McLean wrote:
> On Mon, Oct 26, 2009 at 12:41 AM, Dennis Gilmore  wrote:
> 
> The daemon distinction might be wrong thing to fixate on here. There
> is nothing in that distinction that should exclude python (or most any
> language). I think the real factors of concern are: size, complexity,
> speed, system load, robustness, and security.
> 
 By and large I agree with you. One thing further to think about is that
becoming dependent on a tool written in an interpreted language means that
you need to install that language on your system and may become tied to a
specific version of that language.  In theory, this shouldn't be worse than
tying yourself to a specific C library but in practice I've found that
parallel installing interpreters and their libraries is a lot less supported
than parallel installing a C lib.

Using python in Fedora Infrastructure probably isn't too big a deal as we
have abundant python programmers here to port things forward if the main
developers don't but it is something to consider with other languages or
in other environments.

-Toshio


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Re: Introduction

2009-10-28 Thread Abiel Mogos
Yeah,

I'll see you tomorrow at 20:00 UTC at infrastructure meeting.

Abiel


On Wed, Oct 28, 2009 at 6:04 PM, Mike McGrath  wrote:
> On Wed, 28 Oct 2009, Abiel Mogos wrote:
>
>> Thanks Mike,
>>
>> this time, I'm particularly interested in the infrastructure team.
>> However I might also contribute to the website team, but I feel more
>> interested in the infrastructure one.
>>
>
> If you are able to make the meeting tomorrow that would be great!
>
> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Infrastructure/Meetings
>
> Make sure to introduce yourself when th emeeting starts.
>
>        -Mike
>
>> Cheers!
>> Abiel
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Oct 27, 2009 at 10:53 AM, Mike McGrath  wrote:
>> > On Mon, 26 Oct 2009, Abiel Mogos wrote:
>> >
>> >> Hello guys,
>> >>
>> >> I am Abiel Mogos, new to the "Fedora infrastructure-list" and looking
>> >> forward to contribute to the Fedora Project. I am a student in
>> >> Fairfield (GMT-5), Iowa, studying "Masters in computer science".
>> >> Though its not consistent, I have used Fedora Core for about 4 years.
>> >> I have worked on a I18n project (in the University of Asmara) for
>> >> localizing Fedora to a local language: Tigrinya. I was mainly dealing
>> >> with L10n of Firefox and Thunderbird. However, now I would like to
>> >> contribute to this community in particular in writing code. I have
>> >> some knowledge of Java (and currently studying another course in Java)
>> >> and Perl, I would say I'm good at PHP.
>> >>
>> >> On the other hand, its really motivating to be part of a team of
>> >> software professionals and gain experience and enjoy the high spirit
>> >> of 'sharing' among the community of contributors.
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> > Welcome Abiel, were you interested in working specifcally with the
>> > Infrastructure team or are you interested in other teams as well (docs,
>> > websites, etc) ?
>> >
>> >        -Mike
>> >
>> > ___
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>> > Fedora-infrastructure-list@redhat.com
>> > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-infrastructure-list
>> >
>>
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>>
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Re: [off-topic] Help requested:Query on dual/quad port NIC

2009-10-28 Thread susmit shannigrahi
Hi,

Thank you all for such prompt replies.
This was very helpful.

-- 
Regards,
Susmit.

=
http://www.fedoraproject.org/wiki/user:susmit
=
Sent from Calcutta, WB, India

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Re: Introduction

2009-10-28 Thread Mike McGrath
On Wed, 28 Oct 2009, Abiel Mogos wrote:

> Thanks Mike,
>
> this time, I'm particularly interested in the infrastructure team.
> However I might also contribute to the website team, but I feel more
> interested in the infrastructure one.
>

If you are able to make the meeting tomorrow that would be great!

http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Infrastructure/Meetings

Make sure to introduce yourself when th emeeting starts.

-Mike

> Cheers!
> Abiel
>
>
> On Tue, Oct 27, 2009 at 10:53 AM, Mike McGrath  wrote:
> > On Mon, 26 Oct 2009, Abiel Mogos wrote:
> >
> >> Hello guys,
> >>
> >> I am Abiel Mogos, new to the "Fedora infrastructure-list" and looking
> >> forward to contribute to the Fedora Project. I am a student in
> >> Fairfield (GMT-5), Iowa, studying "Masters in computer science".
> >> Though its not consistent, I have used Fedora Core for about 4 years.
> >> I have worked on a I18n project (in the University of Asmara) for
> >> localizing Fedora to a local language: Tigrinya. I was mainly dealing
> >> with L10n of Firefox and Thunderbird. However, now I would like to
> >> contribute to this community in particular in writing code. I have
> >> some knowledge of Java (and currently studying another course in Java)
> >> and Perl, I would say I'm good at PHP.
> >>
> >> On the other hand, its really motivating to be part of a team of
> >> software professionals and gain experience and enjoy the high spirit
> >> of 'sharing' among the community of contributors.
> >>
> >
> >
> > Welcome Abiel, were you interested in working specifcally with the
> > Infrastructure team or are you interested in other teams as well (docs,
> > websites, etc) ?
> >
> >        -Mike
> >
> > ___
> > Fedora-infrastructure-list mailing list
> > Fedora-infrastructure-list@redhat.com
> > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-infrastructure-list
> >
>
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Re: Introduction

2009-10-28 Thread Abiel Mogos
Thanks Mike,

this time, I'm particularly interested in the infrastructure team.
However I might also contribute to the website team, but I feel more
interested in the infrastructure one.

Cheers!
Abiel


On Tue, Oct 27, 2009 at 10:53 AM, Mike McGrath  wrote:
> On Mon, 26 Oct 2009, Abiel Mogos wrote:
>
>> Hello guys,
>>
>> I am Abiel Mogos, new to the "Fedora infrastructure-list" and looking
>> forward to contribute to the Fedora Project. I am a student in
>> Fairfield (GMT-5), Iowa, studying "Masters in computer science".
>> Though its not consistent, I have used Fedora Core for about 4 years.
>> I have worked on a I18n project (in the University of Asmara) for
>> localizing Fedora to a local language: Tigrinya. I was mainly dealing
>> with L10n of Firefox and Thunderbird. However, now I would like to
>> contribute to this community in particular in writing code. I have
>> some knowledge of Java (and currently studying another course in Java)
>> and Perl, I would say I'm good at PHP.
>>
>> On the other hand, its really motivating to be part of a team of
>> software professionals and gain experience and enjoy the high spirit
>> of 'sharing' among the community of contributors.
>>
>
>
> Welcome Abiel, were you interested in working specifcally with the
> Infrastructure team or are you interested in other teams as well (docs,
> websites, etc) ?
>
>        -Mike
>
> ___
> Fedora-infrastructure-list mailing list
> Fedora-infrastructure-list@redhat.com
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>

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Update/reboot of Fedora Infrastructure on 2009-10-29 21:00 UTC

2009-10-28 Thread Stephen John Smoogen
Outage Notification - 2009-10-29 21:00 UTC

There will be an outage starting at 2009-10-29 21:00 UTC, which will last
approximately 2 hours.

To convert UTC to your local time, take a look at
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Infrastructure/UTCHowto
or run:

date -d '2009-10-29 21:00 UTC'

Affected Services:

Buildsystem
CVS / Source Control
Database
DNS
Fedora Hosted
Fedora People
Fedora Talk
Mail
Mirror System
Torrent
Translation Services
Websites

Unaffected Services:

* None *

Ticket Link:
https://fedorahosted.org/fedora-infrastructure/ticket/1775

Reason for Outage:
Major update for OS.

Contact Information:

Please join #fedora-admin in irc.freenode.net or respond to this email to track
the status of this outage.



-- 
Stephen J Smoogen.

Ah, but a man's reach should exceed his grasp. Or what's a heaven for?
-- Robert Browning

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Re: Suitability of Python for daemon processes

2009-10-28 Thread Mike McLean
On Mon, Oct 26, 2009 at 12:41 AM, Dennis Gilmore  wrote:
> On Sunday 25 October 2009 06:26:49 pm Jeroen van Meeuwen wrote:
>> And koji.fedoraproject.org, no?
> koji is a mod_python app.  it doesnt run as a daemon at all.
> but it it all python.

There are python daemons in the system though. The builders run kojid,
which is a daemon, and the process that triggers repo regeneration
(kojira) is a daemon. Of course, these are not public facing -- they
really only talk to the hub.

The daemon distinction might be wrong thing to fixate on here. There
is nothing in that distinction that should exclude python (or most any
language). I think the real factors of concern are: size, complexity,
speed, system load, robustness, and security.

It's entirely possible to create large and complex systems with
Python. It's expressiveness and interpreted nature are a big help
here. Robustness is probably more a factor of design and good coding
than the language itself. That being said, the relative ease of
programming in Python, coupled with its exception handling, likely
give it an advantage over C in this department (over the same
development time at least). That's my opinion; others may disagree
(and of course Python is not the only rapid development language with
good exception handling).

Security threats are everywhere. With Python at least you have to
worry much less about buffer overflows, but of course you can
introduce security flaws in any language.

Obviously, as an interpreted language, system load and speed are where
Python suffers. There are optimization tricks, but you'll never get
close to execution speed of C. You can rewrite crucial portions in C,
though I rarely see that actually done.

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Re: Ok. Looks like this one _may_ fulfill our calendering needs. Testing required.

2009-10-28 Thread Jose M Manimala
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susmit shannigrahi wrote:

>> That shouldn't be a problem but is there an LDAP plugin that is
>> available? and if yes can we use it?
>
>
> But we don't have a LDAP :)
>
>
yepp... sorry. i just got that cleared up
:)
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Re: Ok. Looks like this one _may_ fulfill our calendering needs. Testing required.

2009-10-28 Thread susmit shannigrahi
> That shouldn't be a problem but is there an LDAP plugin that is
> available? and if yes can we use it?


But we don't have a LDAP :)


-- 
Regards,
Susmit.

=
http://www.fedoraproject.org/wiki/user:susmit
=
Sent from Calcutta, WB, India

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Re: Ok. Looks like this one _may_ fulfill our calendering needs. Testing required.

2009-10-28 Thread Jose M Manimala
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susmit shannigrahi wrote:

>> hmm that would mean we would have to sync the FAS auth DB by the
>> hour or some fixed duration right?
>
> Right. But I think that this should not be much of a problem.
>
That shouldn't be a problem but is there an LDAP plugin that is
available? and if yes can we use it?

Jose Manimala
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Re: Ok. Looks like this one _may_ fulfill our calendering needs. Testing required.

2009-10-28 Thread susmit shannigrahi
> hmm that would mean we would have to sync the FAS auth DB by the hour
> or some fixed duration right?

Right.
But I think that this should not be much of a problem.

-- 
Regards,
Susmit.

=
http://www.fedoraproject.org/wiki/user:susmit
=

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Re: [off-topic] Help requested:Query on dual/quad port NIC

2009-10-28 Thread Felix Kaechele
Hi,

Depends on which PCI interface is meant.

PCI:
D-Link DFE-580TX uses sundance driver

PCI-X 133MHZ:
Intel PWLA8494GT Pro/1000GT uses e1000 driver

PCIe:
HP NC364T, 4x 1000Base-T, PCIe x4 (435508-B21)
Intel Gigabit ET Server Adapter, 4x 1000Base-T, PCIe x4, low profile
(E1G44ET)
Intel PRO/1000 PT Server Adapter, 4x 1000Base-SX, PCIe x4 (EXPI9404PF)
Intel PRO/1000 PT Server Adapter, 4x 1000Base-T, PCIe x4 (EXPI9404PT)
Intel PRO/1000 PT Server Adapter, 4x 1000Base-T, PCIe x4, low profile
(EXPI9404PTL)

all use the e1000e driver

I googled them and looked at what chipset they use. I haven't actually
tested them.

Hope this helps.

Felix

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Re: Ok. Looks like this one _may_ fulfill our calendering needs. Testing required.

2009-10-28 Thread Jose M Manimala
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1
 
susmit shannigrahi wrote:
>> Can I get an account?  How will we do FAS?
>
> You can use admin/admin.
> The user is added the unix way, ($useradd way, though it has a
> different command). So, if there is some application/script to sync
> authentication that way, that should work.
>
> Thanks.
>
>
hmm that would mean we would have to sync the FAS auth DB by the hour
or some fixed duration right?

Jose Manimala
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Re: Ok. Looks like this one _may_ fulfill our calendering needs. Testing required.

2009-10-28 Thread susmit shannigrahi
>
> Can I get an account?  How will we do FAS?

You can use admin/admin.
The user is added the unix way, ($useradd way, though it has a
different command). So, if there is some application/script to sync
authentication that way, that should work.

Thanks.


-- 
Regards,
Susmit.

=
http://www.fedoraproject.org/wiki/user:susmit
=
Sent from Calcutta, WB, India

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Re: Ok. Looks like this one _may_ fulfill our calendering needs. Testing required.

2009-10-28 Thread Mike McGrath
On Wed, 28 Oct 2009, susmit shannigrahi wrote:

> Hi,
>
> Zarafa is up at Publictest16.
> Anyone want to test?
>
> Please refer to last three comments of
> https://fedorahosted.org/fedora-infrastructure/ticket/1197
>

Can I get an account?  How will we do FAS?

-Mike

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Re: [off-topic] Help requested:Query on dual/quad port NIC

2009-10-28 Thread Nigel Jones
On Wed, Oct 28, 2009 at 11:59 PM, Tristan Santore
 wrote:
> On 28/10/09 13:37, susmit shannigrahi wrote:
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> Can someone please help me with this?
>> This person is looking for an PCI-based quad-port NIC which will work
>> on Fedora/CentOS.
>>
>> Thanks.
>>
>>
>> -- Forwarded message --
>> From: Indranil Das Gupta
>> Date: Wed, Oct 28, 2009 at 7:01 PM
>> Subject: Query on dual/quad port NIC
>>
>> Susmit,
>>
>> I'm looking for a PCI-based dual (preferably) quad-port NIC. The card
>> needs to work (preferably with all 4 ports functioning) on Fedora/CentOS
>> (Linux
>> kernel 2.6.26 and upward (i386 arch))
>>
>> thanks
>> -idg
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
> Susmit,
> Intel does a lot of them, and they almost certainly will work with
> Fedora/RHEL.
>

Any Broadcom/Intel (bnx/e1000) cards that have gone through the Red
Hat Hardware Certifications should be a safe bet.  (check the product
specs for a card similar to what you want, then go to
hardware.redhat.com to see if that server is certified. If so, there
is a good chance of support.

Alternative, check bugzilla/git.kernel.org for commits related to the
NIC model#.

- Nigel

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Re: Ok. Looks like this one _may_ fulfill our calendering needs. Testing required.

2009-10-28 Thread susmit shannigrahi
Hi,

Zarafa is up at Publictest16.
Anyone want to test?

Please refer to last three comments of
https://fedorahosted.org/fedora-infrastructure/ticket/1197

Thanks.

-- 
Regards,
Susmit.

=
http://www.fedoraproject.org/wiki/user:susmit
=
Sent from Calcutta, WB, India

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Re: [off-topic] Help requested:Query on dual/quad port NIC

2009-10-28 Thread Tristan Santore

On 28/10/09 13:37, susmit shannigrahi wrote:

Hi,

Can someone please help me with this?
This person is looking for an PCI-based quad-port NIC which will work
on Fedora/CentOS.

Thanks.


-- Forwarded message --
From: Indranil Das Gupta
Date: Wed, Oct 28, 2009 at 7:01 PM
Subject: Query on dual/quad port NIC

Susmit,

I'm looking for a PCI-based dual (preferably) quad-port NIC. The card
needs to work (preferably with all 4 ports functioning) on Fedora/CentOS (Linux
kernel 2.6.26 and upward (i386 arch))

thanks
-idg



   

Susmit,
Intel does a lot of them, and they almost certainly will work with 
Fedora/RHEL.


Regards,
Tristan

--
Tristan Santore BSc MBCS
TS4523-RIPE
Network and Infrastructure Operations
InterNexusConnect
Mobile +44-78-55069812
tristan.sant...@internexusconnect.net

Thawte Notary

For Fedora related issues, please email me at:
tsant...@fedoraproject.org




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Re: [off-topic] Help requested:Query on dual/quad port NIC

2009-10-28 Thread susmit shannigrahi
Hi Matt,

Thanks for replying.

On Wed, Oct 28, 2009 at 7:10 PM,   wrote:
> Dell sells one or more such cards.

Can you _please_ point out one or two which works with Fedora? :)

Thanks.


-- 
Regards,
Susmit.

=
http://www.fedoraproject.org/wiki/user:susmit
=
Sent from Calcutta, WB, India

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RE: [off-topic] Help requested:Query on dual/quad port NIC

2009-10-28 Thread Matt_Domsch
Dell sells one or more such cards.

--
Matt Domsch
Technology Strategist, Dell Office of the CTO
linux.dell.com & www.dell.com/linux

-Original Message-
From: fedora-infrastructure-list-boun...@redhat.com 
[mailto:fedora-infrastructure-list-boun...@redhat.com] On Behalf Of susmit 
shannigrahi
Sent: Wednesday, October 28, 2009 8:38 AM
To: Fedora Infrastructure
Subject: [off-topic] Help requested:Query on dual/quad port NIC

Hi,

Can someone please help me with this?
This person is looking for an PCI-based quad-port NIC which will work
on Fedora/CentOS.

Thanks.


-- Forwarded message --
From: Indranil Das Gupta 
Date: Wed, Oct 28, 2009 at 7:01 PM
Subject: Query on dual/quad port NIC

Susmit,

I'm looking for a PCI-based dual (preferably) quad-port NIC. The card
needs to work (preferably with all 4 ports functioning) on Fedora/CentOS (Linux
kernel 2.6.26 and upward (i386 arch))

thanks
-idg



-- 
Regards,
Susmit.

=
http://www.fedoraproject.org/wiki/user:susmit
=

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[off-topic] Help requested:Query on dual/quad port NIC

2009-10-28 Thread susmit shannigrahi
Hi,

Can someone please help me with this?
This person is looking for an PCI-based quad-port NIC which will work
on Fedora/CentOS.

Thanks.


-- Forwarded message --
From: Indranil Das Gupta 
Date: Wed, Oct 28, 2009 at 7:01 PM
Subject: Query on dual/quad port NIC

Susmit,

I'm looking for a PCI-based dual (preferably) quad-port NIC. The card
needs to work (preferably with all 4 ports functioning) on Fedora/CentOS (Linux
kernel 2.6.26 and upward (i386 arch))

thanks
-idg



-- 
Regards,
Susmit.

=
http://www.fedoraproject.org/wiki/user:susmit
=

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