Re: DNSSEC and Geodns

2009-11-20 Thread Nigel Jones
Actually it does buy us some trust but as the roots aren't signed it's
fairly moot.

On 21/11/2009, Nigel Jones  wrote:
> At the moment? Nothing.
>
> On 21/11/2009, Mike McGrath  wrote:
>> On Fri, 20 Nov 2009, Jeffrey Ollie wrote:
>>
>>> On Fri, Nov 20, 2009 at 10:30 PM, Mike McGrath 
>>> wrote:
>>> > On Fri, 20 Nov 2009, Jeffrey Ollie wrote:
>>> >
>>> >> On Fri, Nov 20, 2009 at 10:09 PM, Mike McGrath 
>>> >> wrote:
>>> >> >
>>> >> > So, for example 'fedoraproject.org' wouldn't be signed, but
>>> >> > 'us.fedoraproject.org' would be?  I *think* that's possible but I
>>> >> > haven't
>>> >> > gotten it to work.  If I can get that to work though I guess that
>>> >> > makes
>>> >> > sense because A) it'd work for now and B) I'm sure over time pdns's
>>> >> > dnssec
>>> >> > will continue to mature.
>>> >>
>>> >> No, that wouldn't really work, because then you couldn't trust
>>> >> lookups
>>> >> from the fedoraproject.org zone, which would include delegations to
>>> >> the subdomains, the main website itself, MX records, etc.
>>> >>
>>> >
>>> > But if fedoraproject.org pointed to some place that wasn't signed or
>>> > was
>>> > signed incorrectly, wouldn't that fail?
>>>
>>> fedoraproject.org can't be a CNAME because it has other records like
>>> MX, NS, SOA, etc.  We'd have to switch to using
>>> 'www.fedoraproject.org' which could be a CNAME into an unsigned
>>> subzone.
>>>
>>> But then you'd still have the problem of relying on an unsigned zone
>>> serving up DNS data, eventually no one is going to trust it.
>>>
>>
>> At this very moment, what is dnssec buying us?
>>
>>  -Mike
>
> --
> Sent from my mobile device
>
> -- Nigel Jones
>

-- 
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-- Nigel Jones

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Re: DNSSEC and Geodns

2009-11-20 Thread Nigel Jones
At the moment? Nothing.

On 21/11/2009, Mike McGrath  wrote:
> On Fri, 20 Nov 2009, Jeffrey Ollie wrote:
>
>> On Fri, Nov 20, 2009 at 10:30 PM, Mike McGrath 
>> wrote:
>> > On Fri, 20 Nov 2009, Jeffrey Ollie wrote:
>> >
>> >> On Fri, Nov 20, 2009 at 10:09 PM, Mike McGrath 
>> >> wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> > So, for example 'fedoraproject.org' wouldn't be signed, but
>> >> > 'us.fedoraproject.org' would be?  I *think* that's possible but I
>> >> > haven't
>> >> > gotten it to work.  If I can get that to work though I guess that
>> >> > makes
>> >> > sense because A) it'd work for now and B) I'm sure over time pdns's
>> >> > dnssec
>> >> > will continue to mature.
>> >>
>> >> No, that wouldn't really work, because then you couldn't trust lookups
>> >> from the fedoraproject.org zone, which would include delegations to
>> >> the subdomains, the main website itself, MX records, etc.
>> >>
>> >
>> > But if fedoraproject.org pointed to some place that wasn't signed or was
>> > signed incorrectly, wouldn't that fail?
>>
>> fedoraproject.org can't be a CNAME because it has other records like
>> MX, NS, SOA, etc.  We'd have to switch to using
>> 'www.fedoraproject.org' which could be a CNAME into an unsigned
>> subzone.
>>
>> But then you'd still have the problem of relying on an unsigned zone
>> serving up DNS data, eventually no one is going to trust it.
>>
>
> At this very moment, what is dnssec buying us?
>
>   -Mike

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Re: DNSSEC and Geodns

2009-11-20 Thread Mike McGrath
On Fri, 20 Nov 2009, Jeffrey Ollie wrote:

> On Fri, Nov 20, 2009 at 10:30 PM, Mike McGrath  wrote:
> > On Fri, 20 Nov 2009, Jeffrey Ollie wrote:
> >
> >> On Fri, Nov 20, 2009 at 10:09 PM, Mike McGrath  wrote:
> >> >
> >> > So, for example 'fedoraproject.org' wouldn't be signed, but
> >> > 'us.fedoraproject.org' would be?  I *think* that's possible but I haven't
> >> > gotten it to work.  If I can get that to work though I guess that makes
> >> > sense because A) it'd work for now and B) I'm sure over time pdns's 
> >> > dnssec
> >> > will continue to mature.
> >>
> >> No, that wouldn't really work, because then you couldn't trust lookups
> >> from the fedoraproject.org zone, which would include delegations to
> >> the subdomains, the main website itself, MX records, etc.
> >>
> >
> > But if fedoraproject.org pointed to some place that wasn't signed or was
> > signed incorrectly, wouldn't that fail?
>
> fedoraproject.org can't be a CNAME because it has other records like
> MX, NS, SOA, etc.  We'd have to switch to using
> 'www.fedoraproject.org' which could be a CNAME into an unsigned
> subzone.
>
> But then you'd still have the problem of relying on an unsigned zone
> serving up DNS data, eventually no one is going to trust it.
>

At this very moment, what is dnssec buying us?

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Re: DNSSEC and Geodns

2009-11-20 Thread Jeffrey Ollie
On Fri, Nov 20, 2009 at 10:30 PM, Mike McGrath  wrote:
> On Fri, 20 Nov 2009, Jeffrey Ollie wrote:
>
>> On Fri, Nov 20, 2009 at 10:09 PM, Mike McGrath  wrote:
>> >
>> > So, for example 'fedoraproject.org' wouldn't be signed, but
>> > 'us.fedoraproject.org' would be?  I *think* that's possible but I haven't
>> > gotten it to work.  If I can get that to work though I guess that makes
>> > sense because A) it'd work for now and B) I'm sure over time pdns's dnssec
>> > will continue to mature.
>>
>> No, that wouldn't really work, because then you couldn't trust lookups
>> from the fedoraproject.org zone, which would include delegations to
>> the subdomains, the main website itself, MX records, etc.
>>
>
> But if fedoraproject.org pointed to some place that wasn't signed or was
> signed incorrectly, wouldn't that fail?

fedoraproject.org can't be a CNAME because it has other records like
MX, NS, SOA, etc.  We'd have to switch to using
'www.fedoraproject.org' which could be a CNAME into an unsigned
subzone.

But then you'd still have the problem of relying on an unsigned zone
serving up DNS data, eventually no one is going to trust it.

-- 
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Re: DNSSEC and Geodns

2009-11-20 Thread Mike McGrath
On Fri, 20 Nov 2009, Jeffrey Ollie wrote:

> On Fri, Nov 20, 2009 at 10:09 PM, Mike McGrath  wrote:
> >
> > So, for example 'fedoraproject.org' wouldn't be signed, but
> > 'us.fedoraproject.org' would be?  I *think* that's possible but I haven't
> > gotten it to work.  If I can get that to work though I guess that makes
> > sense because A) it'd work for now and B) I'm sure over time pdns's dnssec
> > will continue to mature.
>
> No, that wouldn't really work, because then you couldn't trust lookups
> from the fedoraproject.org zone, which would include delegations to
> the subdomains, the main website itself, MX records, etc.
>

But if fedoraproject.org pointed to some place that wasn't signed or was
signed incorrectly, wouldn't that fail?

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Re: DNSSEC and Geodns

2009-11-20 Thread Jeffrey Ollie
On Fri, Nov 20, 2009 at 10:09 PM, Mike McGrath  wrote:
>
> So, for example 'fedoraproject.org' wouldn't be signed, but
> 'us.fedoraproject.org' would be?  I *think* that's possible but I haven't
> gotten it to work.  If I can get that to work though I guess that makes
> sense because A) it'd work for now and B) I'm sure over time pdns's dnssec
> will continue to mature.

No, that wouldn't really work, because then you couldn't trust lookups
from the fedoraproject.org zone, which would include delegations to
the subdomains, the main website itself, MX records, etc.

-- 
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Re: DNSSEC and Geodns

2009-11-20 Thread Stephen John Smoogen
On Fri, Nov 20, 2009 at 9:09 PM, Mike McGrath  wrote:
> On Fri, 20 Nov 2009, Stephen John Smoogen wrote:
>
>> On Fri, Nov 20, 2009 at 8:13 PM, Mike McGrath  wrote:
>> > On Fri, 20 Nov 2009, Stephen John Smoogen wrote:
>> >
>> >> On Fri, Nov 20, 2009 at 3:09 PM, Mike McGrath  wrote:
>> >> > Nothing's ever easy, is it?
>> >> >
>> >> > So I got pdns up and going this afternoon with it's geo back end.  It's
>> >> > working as expected and everything is good.  The problem is pdns's 
>> >> > dnssec
>> >> > implementation is...  not particularly mature or really even usable 
>> >> > AFAIK
>> >> > with geodns.
>> >> >
>> >> > Anyone out there doing both geo location and dnssec with their name
>> >> > servers?
>> >>
>> >> Not really. Most places I know do not do dns-sec (either waiting until
>> >> .com/.org is signed or until its required) or if they are doing
>> >> dns-sec aren't doing geoip. The solutions that comes to mind would be
>> >> to have the geoip code in an unsigned sub-zone. Its not great but
>> >> until 2011 I don't see it being much better.
>> >>
>> >
>> > Ugh, I really don't want to have to choose, nb did great work with getting
>> > dnssec going.
>>
>> I would only do it for a subzone and not for the main one. Basically
>> have ns1/ns2 have the signed zones and the subzones on another one.
>>
>
> So, for example 'fedoraproject.org' wouldn't be signed, but
> 'us.fedoraproject.org' would be?  I *think* that's possible but I haven't
> gotten it to work.  If I can get that to work though I guess that makes
> sense because A) it'd work for now and B) I'm sure over time pdns's dnssec
> will continue to mature.

I meant more like fedoraproject.org would be signed
xxx.mirrors.fedoraproject.org wouldn't be. But now I see that doens't
cover the items we have.





-- 
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-- Robert Browning

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Re: DNSSEC and Geodns

2009-11-20 Thread Mike McGrath
On Fri, 20 Nov 2009, Mike McGrath wrote:

> On Fri, 20 Nov 2009, Stephen John Smoogen wrote:
>
> > On Fri, Nov 20, 2009 at 8:13 PM, Mike McGrath  wrote:
> > > On Fri, 20 Nov 2009, Stephen John Smoogen wrote:
> > >
> > >> On Fri, Nov 20, 2009 at 3:09 PM, Mike McGrath  
> > >> wrote:
> > >> > Nothing's ever easy, is it?
> > >> >
> > >> > So I got pdns up and going this afternoon with it's geo back end.  It's
> > >> > working as expected and everything is good.  The problem is pdns's 
> > >> > dnssec
> > >> > implementation is...  not particularly mature or really even usable 
> > >> > AFAIK
> > >> > with geodns.
> > >> >
> > >> > Anyone out there doing both geo location and dnssec with their name
> > >> > servers?
> > >>
> > >> Not really. Most places I know do not do dns-sec (either waiting until
> > >> .com/.org is signed or until its required) or if they are doing
> > >> dns-sec aren't doing geoip. The solutions that comes to mind would be
> > >> to have the geoip code in an unsigned sub-zone. Its not great but
> > >> until 2011 I don't see it being much better.
> > >>
> > >
> > > Ugh, I really don't want to have to choose, nb did great work with getting
> > > dnssec going.
> >
> > I would only do it for a subzone and not for the main one. Basically
> > have ns1/ns2 have the signed zones and the subzones on another one.
> >
>
> So, for example 'fedoraproject.org' wouldn't be signed, but
> 'us.fedoraproject.org' would be?  I *think* that's possible but I haven't
> gotten it to work.  If I can get that to work though I guess that makes
> sense because A) it'd work for now and B) I'm sure over time pdns's dnssec
> will continue to mature.
>

I should explain this to people not familiar with pdns with the geo
backend (as I was unfamiliar about 12 hours ago :)

right now I've got powerdns to literally pull from our normal bind configs
(with a few modifications).  pdns uses this for most of it's data.  But
the geo ip lookups would happen prior to the bind lookups and the way it's
setup now would return a cname.  So, depending on where you are located
and how we set things up.  'fedoraproject.org' would point to
us.fedoraproject.org or de.fedoraproject.org or maybe even na or
eu.fedoraproject.org.

AFAIK, that cname can't be signed with the way pdns currently works.
*however* I think what the cname points to could be signed.  I'm not sure
if this completely bypasses what dnssec would get us or not but I suspect
it's the a record signings that are the most important.

Thoughts?

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Re: DNSSEC and Geodns

2009-11-20 Thread Mike McGrath
On Fri, 20 Nov 2009, Stephen John Smoogen wrote:

> On Fri, Nov 20, 2009 at 8:13 PM, Mike McGrath  wrote:
> > On Fri, 20 Nov 2009, Stephen John Smoogen wrote:
> >
> >> On Fri, Nov 20, 2009 at 3:09 PM, Mike McGrath  wrote:
> >> > Nothing's ever easy, is it?
> >> >
> >> > So I got pdns up and going this afternoon with it's geo back end.  It's
> >> > working as expected and everything is good.  The problem is pdns's dnssec
> >> > implementation is...  not particularly mature or really even usable AFAIK
> >> > with geodns.
> >> >
> >> > Anyone out there doing both geo location and dnssec with their name
> >> > servers?
> >>
> >> Not really. Most places I know do not do dns-sec (either waiting until
> >> .com/.org is signed or until its required) or if they are doing
> >> dns-sec aren't doing geoip. The solutions that comes to mind would be
> >> to have the geoip code in an unsigned sub-zone. Its not great but
> >> until 2011 I don't see it being much better.
> >>
> >
> > Ugh, I really don't want to have to choose, nb did great work with getting
> > dnssec going.
>
> I would only do it for a subzone and not for the main one. Basically
> have ns1/ns2 have the signed zones and the subzones on another one.
>

So, for example 'fedoraproject.org' wouldn't be signed, but
'us.fedoraproject.org' would be?  I *think* that's possible but I haven't
gotten it to work.  If I can get that to work though I guess that makes
sense because A) it'd work for now and B) I'm sure over time pdns's dnssec
will continue to mature.

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Re: DNSSEC and Geodns

2009-11-20 Thread Jeffrey Ollie
On Fri, Nov 20, 2009 at 4:09 PM, Mike McGrath  wrote:
> Nothing's ever easy, is it?
>
> So I got pdns up and going this afternoon with it's geo back end.  It's
> working as expected and everything is good.  The problem is pdns's dnssec
> implementation is...  not particularly mature or really even usable AFAIK
> with geodns.
>
> Anyone out there doing both geo location and dnssec with their name
> servers?

Hmm... not sure if this rates as a 'clever' or 'ugly' hack:

http://phix.me/geodns/

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Re: DNSSEC and Geodns

2009-11-20 Thread Stephen John Smoogen
On Fri, Nov 20, 2009 at 8:27 PM, Nigel Jones  wrote:
> On Sat, Nov 21, 2009 at 1:18 PM, Stephen John Smoogen  
> wrote:
>> On Fri, Nov 20, 2009 at 8:13 PM, Mike McGrath  wrote:

>>> Ugh, I really don't want to have to choose, nb did great work with getting
>>> dnssec going.
>>
>> I would only do it for a subzone and not for the main one. Basically
>> have ns1/ns2 have the signed zones and the subzones on another one.
> Surely this is going to increase the time needed for clients to
> perform DNS lookups on the content we got GEO-Located (i.e.
> fedoraproject.org/admin.fedoraproject.org)

Usually the time is really pretty small.

> - Nigel
>
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-- 
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Re: DNSSEC and Geodns

2009-11-20 Thread Nigel Jones
On Sat, Nov 21, 2009 at 1:18 PM, Stephen John Smoogen  wrote:
> On Fri, Nov 20, 2009 at 8:13 PM, Mike McGrath  wrote:
>> On Fri, 20 Nov 2009, Stephen John Smoogen wrote:
>>
>>> On Fri, Nov 20, 2009 at 3:09 PM, Mike McGrath  wrote:
>>> > Nothing's ever easy, is it?
>>> >
>>> > So I got pdns up and going this afternoon with it's geo back end.  It's
>>> > working as expected and everything is good.  The problem is pdns's dnssec
>>> > implementation is...  not particularly mature or really even usable AFAIK
>>> > with geodns.
>>> >
>>> > Anyone out there doing both geo location and dnssec with their name
>>> > servers?
>>>
>>> Not really. Most places I know do not do dns-sec (either waiting until
>>> .com/.org is signed or until its required) or if they are doing
>>> dns-sec aren't doing geoip. The solutions that comes to mind would be
>>> to have the geoip code in an unsigned sub-zone. Its not great but
>>> until 2011 I don't see it being much better.
>>>
>>
>> Ugh, I really don't want to have to choose, nb did great work with getting
>> dnssec going.
>
> I would only do it for a subzone and not for the main one. Basically
> have ns1/ns2 have the signed zones and the subzones on another one.
Surely this is going to increase the time needed for clients to
perform DNS lookups on the content we got GEO-Located (i.e.
fedoraproject.org/admin.fedoraproject.org)

- Nigel

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Re: DNSSEC and Geodns

2009-11-20 Thread Stephen John Smoogen
On Fri, Nov 20, 2009 at 8:13 PM, Mike McGrath  wrote:
> On Fri, 20 Nov 2009, Stephen John Smoogen wrote:
>
>> On Fri, Nov 20, 2009 at 3:09 PM, Mike McGrath  wrote:
>> > Nothing's ever easy, is it?
>> >
>> > So I got pdns up and going this afternoon with it's geo back end.  It's
>> > working as expected and everything is good.  The problem is pdns's dnssec
>> > implementation is...  not particularly mature or really even usable AFAIK
>> > with geodns.
>> >
>> > Anyone out there doing both geo location and dnssec with their name
>> > servers?
>>
>> Not really. Most places I know do not do dns-sec (either waiting until
>> .com/.org is signed or until its required) or if they are doing
>> dns-sec aren't doing geoip. The solutions that comes to mind would be
>> to have the geoip code in an unsigned sub-zone. Its not great but
>> until 2011 I don't see it being much better.
>>
>
> Ugh, I really don't want to have to choose, nb did great work with getting
> dnssec going.

I would only do it for a subzone and not for the main one. Basically
have ns1/ns2 have the signed zones and the subzones on another one.



-- 
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Re: DNSSEC and Geodns

2009-11-20 Thread Mike McGrath
On Fri, 20 Nov 2009, Stephen John Smoogen wrote:

> On Fri, Nov 20, 2009 at 3:09 PM, Mike McGrath  wrote:
> > Nothing's ever easy, is it?
> >
> > So I got pdns up and going this afternoon with it's geo back end.  It's
> > working as expected and everything is good.  The problem is pdns's dnssec
> > implementation is...  not particularly mature or really even usable AFAIK
> > with geodns.
> >
> > Anyone out there doing both geo location and dnssec with their name
> > servers?
>
> Not really. Most places I know do not do dns-sec (either waiting until
> .com/.org is signed or until its required) or if they are doing
> dns-sec aren't doing geoip. The solutions that comes to mind would be
> to have the geoip code in an unsigned sub-zone. Its not great but
> until 2011 I don't see it being much better.
>

Ugh, I really don't want to have to choose, nb did great work with getting
dnssec going.

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Re: DNSSEC and Geodns

2009-11-20 Thread Stephen John Smoogen
On Fri, Nov 20, 2009 at 3:09 PM, Mike McGrath  wrote:
> Nothing's ever easy, is it?
>
> So I got pdns up and going this afternoon with it's geo back end.  It's
> working as expected and everything is good.  The problem is pdns's dnssec
> implementation is...  not particularly mature or really even usable AFAIK
> with geodns.
>
> Anyone out there doing both geo location and dnssec with their name
> servers?

Not really. Most places I know do not do dns-sec (either waiting until
.com/.org is signed or until its required) or if they are doing
dns-sec aren't doing geoip. The solutions that comes to mind would be
to have the geoip code in an unsigned sub-zone. Its not great but
until 2011 I don't see it being much better.


>        -Mike
>
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-- 
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DNSSEC and Geodns

2009-11-20 Thread Mike McGrath
Nothing's ever easy, is it?

So I got pdns up and going this afternoon with it's geo back end.  It's
working as expected and everything is good.  The problem is pdns's dnssec
implementation is...  not particularly mature or really even usable AFAIK
with geodns.

Anyone out there doing both geo location and dnssec with their name
servers?

-Mike

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Re: Introduction New subscriber - Contributor

2009-11-20 Thread Mike McGrath
On Fri, 20 Nov 2009, Rene Purcell wrote:

> Hi all,
> My name is René Jr Purcell and I'd like to join the Fedora community and I 
> think the Infrastructure group is a good place
> to start!
>
> I started using Linux with Slackware 4.0, I remember all those night trying 
> to understand this "new way of thinking and
> using computer" I had a lot of fun and I really started to understand and 
> have fun after few weeks of work trying LFS
> (Linux From Scratch).
>
> I've been working as a Linux administrator for ther past 6 years, working 
> with Suse linux enterprise server, RHEL and
> CentOS. During the past two years I got my CLP and RHCE certification which 
> push me to try and use RedHat product. For
> now I'm trying to learn the administration of Oracle on Linux and I'm working 
> hard to become a master of RHEV. I'm using
> Fedora daily, since Core 3 and I appreciate the work done by the community 
> and I think it's the time for me to give back!
>
> Just like Ashley Biar ( who posted yesterday ) I'm not sure where I can start 
> helping, I would like to learn first how
> everyone work together on the project, where are the biggest needs and I'll 
> see later.. For now my main interest are the
> system administration and I'm trying to find if my knowledge of RPM could 
> lead me to maintain/package rpms.
>
> Looking forward to see/chat with you on IRC.
>

Getting a feel for things is always good, make sure you stop by
#fedora-admin on irc.freenode.net and make yourself known.

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Introduction New subscriber - Contributor

2009-11-20 Thread Rene Purcell
Hi all,
My name is René Jr Purcell and I'd like to join the Fedora community and I
think the Infrastructure group is a good place to start!

I started using Linux with Slackware 4.0, I remember all those night trying
to understand this "new way of thinking and using computer" I had a lot of
fun and I really started to understand and have fun after few weeks of work
trying LFS (Linux From Scratch).

I've been working as a Linux administrator for ther past 6 years, working
with Suse linux enterprise server, RHEL and CentOS. During the past two
years I got my CLP and RHCE certification which push me to try and use
RedHat product. For now I'm trying to learn the administration of Oracle on
Linux and I'm working hard to become a master of RHEV. I'm using Fedora
daily, since Core 3 and I appreciate the work done by the community and I
think it's the time for me to give back!

Just like Ashley Biar ( who posted yesterday ) I'm not sure where I can
start helping, I would like to learn first how everyone work together on the
project, where are the biggest needs and I'll see later.. For now my main
interest are the system administration and I'm trying to find if my
knowledge of RPM could lead me to maintain/package rpms.

Looking forward to see/chat with you on IRC.

Regards
René Jr Purcell
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Re: temporary rsync files visible on download-i2

2009-11-20 Thread Adrian Reber
I saw it during the initial F12 sync and it has been there since.

Adrian

On Thu, Nov 19, 2009 at 06:46:48PM -0600, Mike McGrath wrote:
> Are you seeing this regularly or just this one time?
> 
>   -Mike
> 
> On Thu, 19 Nov 2009, Adrian Reber wrote:
> 
> > The configuration of download-i2 seems to be not the same as from the other
> > non I2 download servers:
> >
> > rsync 
> > download-i2.fedora.redhat.com::fedora-linux-development/i386/debug/.~tmp~/
> >
> > gives me a long list of files which should not be visible, whereas running 
> > rsync
> > against the non I2 download server gives me
> >
> > rsync: link_stat "i386/debug/.~tmp~/." (in fedora-linux-development) 
> > failed: Permission denied (13)
> >
> > So the directory (which probably should not be there at all) is on both
> > servers but the I2 server lets me also download it.
> >
> > Adrian

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