Re: Moin and notifications
Thorsten Leemhuis wrote: Rahul Sundaram wrote: What would be the replacement? I watch all wiki changes and make corrections quite often. It would be nice if we can figure out a way to make moin go faster without cutting down notifications altogether. I'm watching all the wiki changes as well and I would really miss them. Thus a loud -1 from me to the idea to remove them BTW, I often told contributers to subscribe to areas in the wiki (e.g. like EPEL/.*) to follow the happenings in EPEL land. A few did that. Sorry to reopen this thread but I think I remembered something last night related to this. Do any of the wikis we're looking at using to replace moin support regex page watches (or something that could be used similarly... perhaps a category watch?) I remember someone (Mike?) looking at other wikis with an eye towards porting code from another wiki to speed up the notifications and finding that no other wiki supports regex watchlists. Just wondering if we're going to need to change our behaviour WRT page watchlists if we can't fix moin. -Toshio ___ Fedora-infrastructure-list mailing list Fedora-infrastructure-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-infrastructure-list
Re: Moin and notifications
On Wed, 2007-10-17 at 07:07 +0200, Thorsten Leemhuis wrote: I'm watching all the wiki changes as well and I would really miss them. Thus a loud -1 from me to the idea to remove them Agreed, -1 from me. As painful as saves are, we can't replace sane notification without another solution. We have many Docs processes that require notification (via email, a standard.) A mailing list that gets all the commits to the wiki would be fine for me, so that idea gets a +1 from me. +1 I could probably handle this, as long as it was possible for me to use filtering to the same effect. That is, grab this, that, and the other to keep, drop all else. I'm figuring any MUA or server-side filtering should have a way to do this ... right? - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, Developer Community Mgr. Dev Fu : http://developer.redhatmagazine.com Fedora : http://quaid.fedorapeople.org gpg key : AD0E0C41 signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part ___ Fedora-infrastructure-list mailing list Fedora-infrastructure-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-infrastructure-list
Re: Moin and notifications
Matt Domsch wrote: Mike had the idea hey, why don't we just background the mail notification, which doesn't solve the problem, but papers over it for the user who clicks Save - they get an instant thanks for updating the wiki while the email happens in the background. I made a quick patch and Mike tested it on Friday on a test instance - and it looks like it'll help until Toshio's stuff is done. Yep. Papering or not, saves are instantaneous now. Problem solved, atleast for me. Rahul ___ Fedora-infrastructure-list mailing list Fedora-infrastructure-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-infrastructure-list
Re: Moin and notifications
On Tue, Oct 16, 2007 at 03:53:59PM -0700, Toshio Kuratomi wrote: Mike McGrath wrote: Till Maas wrote: On Di Oktober 16 2007, Mike McGrath wrote: Proposal: Disable notifications in Moin Reason: Even page creations at this point are not working for some people. How about a Wiki-Notification mailinglist, i.e. sending notifications only to one fixed address. Then add some topics to the mailinglist, e.g. for the SIGs, Packaging, Beats and other main namespaces to allow a little selection. It'd require patches to moin. IE: We'd either have to get rid of all of the users or gut the mailing section of the wiki I guess. Just a reminder to those that aren't familiar with it. Moin iterates over every user who has page watch lists (currently in the thousands) to find out who to notify. As the number of our users increases and as the number of the pages they watch increase moin gets slower and slower on page saves. It would be doable though. When I looked ~ a year ago, there were only two places in the code that would need to be hacked to replace the email subsystem. I imagine we could find a single point in the code to hack if we just made finding the subscribed pages function return '[EMAIL PROTECTED]' instead of parsing each user's config file and returning that list. With a quick look at the code it seems quite simple to make the changes, the only issue that I can see is if there are any pages that have acls that don't allow all users to view them. Kostas ___ Fedora-infrastructure-list mailing list Fedora-infrastructure-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-infrastructure-list
Re: Moin and notifications
On Wed, Oct 17, 2007 at 09:14:05AM +0300, Nicu Buculei wrote: Mike McGrath wrote: I'm just going to throw it out there and see what people say. Proposal: Disable notifications in Moin Without notification, how can one effectively use a page like http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Artwork/DesignService ? That is, without subscribing to a wiki-wide mailing list or RSS feed. Probably a solution would be to not use the wiki for such task, maybe bugzilla, but the wiki has a lower barrier to entry and a larger chance to get people involved. What about an application external to the wiki which notices page changes and emails those out asynchronously? ___ Fedora-infrastructure-list mailing list Fedora-infrastructure-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-infrastructure-list
Re: Moin and notifications
seth vidal wrote: On Wed, 2007-10-17 at 04:00 +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote: seth vidal wrote: On Tue, 2007-10-16 at 15:52 -0400, Bill Nottingham wrote: seth vidal ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) said: Maybe we just need to put a bullet in it during the f9 cycle. It being... the wiki? moin? notifications? moin What would be the replacement? I watch all wiki changes and make corrections quite often. It would be nice if we can figure out a way to make moin go faster without cutting down notifications altogether. a different wiki system. -sv +1 Why are we so married to Moin? The only substantive argument I've heard for using/keeping it is that it is Python based. John ___ Fedora-infrastructure-list mailing list Fedora-infrastructure-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-infrastructure-list
Re: Moin and notifications
On Wed, 2007-10-17 at 00:13 -0700, John Poelstra wrote: seth vidal wrote: On Wed, 2007-10-17 at 04:00 +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote: seth vidal wrote: On Tue, 2007-10-16 at 15:52 -0400, Bill Nottingham wrote: seth vidal ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) said: Maybe we just need to put a bullet in it during the f9 cycle. It being... the wiki? moin? notifications? moin What would be the replacement? I watch all wiki changes and make corrections quite often. It would be nice if we can figure out a way to make moin go faster without cutting down notifications altogether. a different wiki system. -sv +1 Why are we so married to Moin? The only substantive argument I've heard for using/keeping it is that it is Python based. I don't think we are - I think becoming divorced from it is a function of figuring out how to get all of our data out of it quasi-sanely. -sv ___ Fedora-infrastructure-list mailing list Fedora-infrastructure-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-infrastructure-list
Re: Moin and notifications
John Poelstra wrote: seth vidal wrote: On Wed, 2007-10-17 at 04:00 +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote: seth vidal wrote: On Tue, 2007-10-16 at 15:52 -0400, Bill Nottingham wrote: seth vidal ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) said: Maybe we just need to put a bullet in it during the f9 cycle. It being... the wiki? moin? notifications? moin What would be the replacement? I watch all wiki changes and make corrections quite often. It would be nice if we can figure out a way to make moin go faster without cutting down notifications altogether. a different wiki system. -sv +1 Why are we so married to Moin? The only substantive argument I've heard for using/keeping it is that it is Python based. The smolt team has actually chosen mediawiki for its wiki. I've been keeping an eye on it as a replacement for moin. There is a perl script to convert but it didn't seem to work for me out of the box and didn't convert any of the usernames. -Mike ___ Fedora-infrastructure-list mailing list Fedora-infrastructure-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-infrastructure-list
Re: Moin and notifications
On Wednesday 17 October 2007 01:53:59 Toshio Kuratomi wrote: It'd require patches to moin. IE: We'd either have to get rid of all of the users or gut the mailing section of the wiki I guess. Just a reminder to those that aren't familiar with it. Moin iterates over every user who has page watch lists (currently in the thousands) to find out who to notify. As the number of our users increases and as the number of the pages they watch increase moin gets slower and slower on page saves. It would be doable though. When I looked ~ a year ago, there were only two places in the code that would need to be hacked to replace the email subsystem. I imagine we could find a single point in the code to hack if we just made finding the subscribed pages function return '[EMAIL PROTECTED]' instead of parsing each user's config file and returning that list. I think I've suggested this before, but shouldn't we first try to fix Moin rather than spend time wondering if we can convert all the data to Mediawiki? We have a lot of talented Python people in this project, it shouldn't be impossible to do. I do have some of my own interests here, my Summer Code Finland 2007 project [1] for Fedora was based on Moin, and if Fedora ditched Moin that would seriously threaten the future of that code. There was also a Fedora GSoC project on Moin last year, so even though none of this code is yet merged upstream, a lot of work has been done on Moin by Fedora people. I don't want to step on anyone's toes here, I do understand the situation and I see that it causes a lot of trouble for us. I'm just trying to offer some pro-Moin points here as well. [1] http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SummerOfCode/2007/VillePekkaVainio -- Ville-Pekka Vainio [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Fedora-infrastructure-list mailing list Fedora-infrastructure-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-infrastructure-list
Re: Moin and notifications
Ville-Pekka Vainio wrote: On Wednesday 17 October 2007 01:53:59 Toshio Kuratomi wrote: It'd require patches to moin. IE: We'd either have to get rid of all of the users or gut the mailing section of the wiki I guess. Just a reminder to those that aren't familiar with it. Moin iterates over every user who has page watch lists (currently in the thousands) to find out who to notify. As the number of our users increases and as the number of the pages they watch increase moin gets slower and slower on page saves. It would be doable though. When I looked ~ a year ago, there were only two places in the code that would need to be hacked to replace the email subsystem. I imagine we could find a single point in the code to hack if we just made finding the subscribed pages function return '[EMAIL PROTECTED]' instead of parsing each user's config file and returning that list. I think I've suggested this before, but shouldn't we first try to fix Moin rather than spend time wondering if we can convert all the data to Mediawiki? We have a lot of talented Python people in this project, it shouldn't be impossible to do. In the time we've had issues / complaints with it. No one has actually fixed anything. I think part of this is because of the moin design which is very small wiki oriented I guess. People like moin and all but in the past I've heard 1.6 will have it and even now I've heard 1.7 will have that but where are they? We needed these changes a while ago but AFAIK almost no work has been done on any of our issues (category based pages, notifications, and shared storage logging come to mind) -Mike ___ Fedora-infrastructure-list mailing list Fedora-infrastructure-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-infrastructure-list
Re: Moin and notifications
On Tue, 2007-10-16 at 14:39 -0500, Mike McGrath wrote: I'm just going to throw it out there and see what people say. Proposal: Disable notifications in Moin Reason: Even page creations at this point are not working for some people. I think as a last-ditch item, sure. But it is dramatically limiting the functionality of a wiki at this point. Maybe we just need to put a bullet in it during the f9 cycle. -sv ___ Fedora-infrastructure-list mailing list Fedora-infrastructure-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-infrastructure-list
Re: Moin and notifications
Mike McGrath wrote: I'm just going to throw it out there and see what people say. Proposal: Disable notifications in Moin Reason: Even page creations at this point are not working for some people. FIWI, I did just find: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/RecentChanges?action=rss_rcddiffs=1unique=1 -Mike ___ Fedora-infrastructure-list mailing list Fedora-infrastructure-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-infrastructure-list
Re: Moin and notifications
Till Maas wrote: On Di Oktober 16 2007, Mike McGrath wrote: Proposal: Disable notifications in Moin Reason: Even page creations at this point are not working for some people. How about a Wiki-Notification mailinglist, i.e. sending notifications only to one fixed address. Then add some topics to the mailinglist, e.g. for the SIGs, Packaging, Beats and other main namespaces to allow a little selection. It'd require patches to moin. IE: We'd either have to get rid of all of the users or gut the mailing section of the wiki I guess. Just a reminder to those that aren't familiar with it. Moin iterates over every user who has page watch lists (currently in the thousands) to find out who to notify. As the number of our users increases and as the number of the pages they watch increase moin gets slower and slower on page saves. -Mike ___ Fedora-infrastructure-list mailing list Fedora-infrastructure-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-infrastructure-list
Re: Moin and notifications
On Tuesday 16 October 2007 5:30:20 pm Rahul Sundaram wrote: seth vidal wrote: On Tue, 2007-10-16 at 15:52 -0400, Bill Nottingham wrote: seth vidal ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) said: Maybe we just need to put a bullet in it during the f9 cycle. It being... the wiki? moin? notifications? moin What would be the replacement? I watch all wiki changes and make corrections quite often. It would be nice if we can figure out a way to make moin go faster without cutting down notifications altogether. A different Wiki or someone coding a db backend for moin. ___ Fedora-infrastructure-list mailing list Fedora-infrastructure-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-infrastructure-list
Re: Moin and notifications
Rahul Sundaram wrote: seth vidal wrote: On Tue, 2007-10-16 at 15:52 -0400, Bill Nottingham wrote: seth vidal ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) said: Maybe we just need to put a bullet in it during the f9 cycle. It being... the wiki? moin? notifications? moin What would be the replacement? I watch all wiki changes and make corrections quite often. It would be nice if we can figure out a way to make moin go faster without cutting down notifications altogether. This is the best I came up with - http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/RecentChanges?action=rss_rcddiffs=1unique=1 -Mike ___ Fedora-infrastructure-list mailing list Fedora-infrastructure-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-infrastructure-list
