RE: Testing out USB mic

[Lalit Dhiri]

---
> Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2009 20:51:33 -0500
> From: r...@htt-consult.com
> To: fedora-list@redhat.com
> Subject: Testing out USB mic
>
> I have a Plantronics DSP-400 headset on a FC10 system that I am using
> for testing with SIP Communicator.
>
> How can I test the microphone on the headset to see if it is working in
> the system?
>
>
You could use Sound Recorder found in Applications> Sound & Video. Just ensure 
the mixer volume levels are set correctly for the USB headset.



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Re: help installing JRE and make it work with firefox 3, on fedora 10 x64 arch

[Arthur Pemberton]

On Tue, Feb 10, 2009 at 11:58 PM, David Antonio Garcia Campos
 wrote:
> No, I didnt try that yet. I'll give it a try, thanks a lot for your help.


Good luck. I've tried that how to before, and it worked for me.


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Re: help installing JRE and make it work with firefox 3, on fedora 10 x64 arch

[David Antonio Garcia Campos]

No, I didnt try that yet. I'll give it a try, thanks a lot for your help.


On Wed, Feb 11, 2009 at 12:54 AM, Arthur Pemberton  wrote:

> On Tue, Feb 10, 2009 at 11:47 PM, David Antonio Garcia Campos
>  wrote:
> > Hi everyone,
> >
> > I have tried pretty much all the instructions found on the net, but I
> have
> > been unable to install JRE and make it work with firefox 3.
> >
> > I have installed JRE but I cannot either see the console anywhere.
> >
> > [r...@localhost firefox]# rpm -aq | grep jre
> > jre-1.6.0_12-fcs.x86_64
> >
> > please help!
>
>
> Did you follow http://fedorasolved.org/browser-solutions/java-i386/ ?
>
>
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Re: help installing JRE and make it work with firefox 3, on fedora 10 x64 arch

[Arthur Pemberton]

On Tue, Feb 10, 2009 at 11:47 PM, David Antonio Garcia Campos
 wrote:
> Hi everyone,
>
> I have tried pretty much all the instructions found on the net, but I have
> been unable to install JRE and make it work with firefox 3.
>
> I have installed JRE but I cannot either see the console anywhere.
>
> [r...@localhost firefox]# rpm -aq | grep jre
> jre-1.6.0_12-fcs.x86_64
>
> please help!


Did you follow http://fedorasolved.org/browser-solutions/java-i386/ ?


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help installing JRE and make it work with firefox 3, on fedora 10 x64 arch

[David Antonio Garcia Campos]

Hi everyone,

I have tried pretty much all the instructions found on the net, but I have
been unable to install JRE and make it work with firefox 3.

I have installed JRE but I cannot either see the console anywhere.

[r...@localhost firefox]# rpm -aq | grep jre
jre-1.6.0_12-fcs.x86_64

please help!

Thanks,

DavidG
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Problem Deleting Directory & Files

[Kirk]

I installed a tarball and then discovered I didn't need it.  I tried to
delete the director & files but permission gets denied.  I tried to
chmod but it wouldn't work on the files or directory.  I checked the
permissions which said I'm not the owner & can't change them.

Any help is appreciated.
Thanks, Kirk Ziegler

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Re: Red Hat g++ packaging question

[Bruno Wolff III]

On Mon, Feb 09, 2009 at 04:19:31 +0100,
  Kevin Kofler  wrote:
> Peter J. Stieber wrote:
> [from the compiler output]
> > The bug is not reproducible, so it is likely a hardware or OS problem.
> and [in a reply]
> > The reason I didn't do this in the first place is the fact that I cannot 
> > reproduce the bugs.  They occur infrequently (like once a week) and in 
> > various source modules.  Wouldn't this be futile?
> 
> So why are you suspecting g++?
> 
> Most likely your RAM is faulty. Run a memory tester.

And probably next in line is poor cooling such as might be cause by dust
or a broken fan.

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Re: Q's for senior fedora/redhat admins

[Antonio Olivares]

> Then maybe you don't recall their most
> "famous" poster?
> 
> Yet, I am pleasantly surprised.   The last time I checked
> this domain
> was banning smtp and http connections from all of Asia.   I
> just checked
> now and found they are now allowing connections  So,
> maybe something
> has changed and my assumptions are invalid.

Of course, I remember :)  How can I forget?  This list would not have been as 
fun as it is without many people who are here and share their knowledge and 
expertise and of course their opinions :)

Good thing, that they are allowing connections and maybe things have indeed 
changed :)

Regards,

Antonio 


  

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Re: Q's for senior fedora/redhat admins

[Armin]

On Tuesday 10 February 2009 23:11:47 Kevin Kofler wrote:
> Terry Polzin wrote:
> > run you're favorite Fedora version until it won't run any more
>
> Bad suggestion. Don't use releases which don't get security updates
> anymore.
>
> Kevin Kofler

lol, my favorite Fedora version is rawhide ;)

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Re: Q's for senior fedora/redhat admins

[Kevin Kofler]

Terry Polzin wrote:
> run you're favorite Fedora version until it won't run any more

Bad suggestion. Don't use releases which don't get security updates anymore.

Kevin Kofler

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Re: Q's for senior fedora/redhat admins

[Ed Greshko]

Antonio Olivares wrote:
>>> but unless you reply with a @redhat or @fedora
>>> email you will be ignored, sorry if it sounds harsh,
>>>   
>> but thats the way it
>> 
>>> is.
>>>
>>>   
>>>   
>> I was going to offer an opinion...but decided not to waste
>> my fingers.  
>>
>> I do wonder why anyone would ask these questions on a
>> mailing list like
>> this one  (Not to mention that these items have been
>> "discussed"
>> N-times)  Does the person *really* expect only @fedora and
>> @redhat
>> people to care to respond, have an opinion, or have
>> knowledge? 
>> 
> N-times --> N+1 times, N+2, N+3, ,, $\infty$ still no change 
>   
>> I can only think of one of two possibilities.   Extreme
>> naivety or
>> troll.  Then again, I noticed the  domain name and the word
>> shill came
>> to mind.  :-) :-)
>> 
>
> I checked the domain 
> http://www.ausics.net/ais.php
>
> They appear to good guys :), Rahul already pointed out the Omega live cd 
> project, it addresses some of their points so hopefully Laura is happy with 
> the answer she got :)
>
>   
Then maybe you don't recall their most "famous" poster?

Yet, I am pleasantly surprised.   The last time I checked this domain
was banning smtp and http connections from all of Asia.   I just checked
now and found they are now allowing connections  So, maybe something
has changed and my assumptions are invalid.





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Re: Q's for senior fedora/redhat admins

[Antonio Olivares]

> > but unless you reply with a @redhat or @fedora
> > email you will be ignored, sorry if it sounds harsh,
> but thats the way it
> > is.
> >
> >   
> I was going to offer an opinion...but decided not to waste
> my fingers.  
> 
> I do wonder why anyone would ask these questions on a
> mailing list like
> this one  (Not to mention that these items have been
> "discussed"
> N-times)  Does the person *really* expect only @fedora and
> @redhat
> people to care to respond, have an opinion, or have
> knowledge? 
N-times --> N+1 times, N+2, N+3, ,, $\infty$ still no change 
> 
> I can only think of one of two possibilities.   Extreme
> naivety or
> troll.  Then again, I noticed the  domain name and the word
> shill came
> to mind.  :-) :-)

I checked the domain 
http://www.ausics.net/ais.php

They appear to good guys :), Rahul already pointed out the Omega live cd 
project, it addresses some of their points so hopefully Laura is happy with the 
answer she got :)

Regards,

Antonio
> 
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Re: Feature Proposal: Rolling Updates (was Re: WHY I WANT TO STOP USING FEDORA!!!)

[Michael Cronenworth]

Arthur Pemberton wrote:


That won't work and will purely be annoying. If you want rolling
releases, setup a SIG to do so. These guys have work to do. They don't
seem to have free time that can be shifted to whatever you want, just
because you want it. That's the whole point of having a community --
people need to do work to get work done. Walking with a sign saying
"give me food" is not as all as effecting of growing your own food or
going out and buying some.
  


I never said it would work... :P

It was a feeble attempt to passively enlighten him on the full extent of 
the changes of what he's suggesting.


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Re: Q's for senior fedora/redhat admins

[Ed Greshko]

la...@ausics.net wrote:
> but unless you reply with a @redhat or @fedora
> email you will be ignored, sorry if it sounds harsh, but thats the way it
> is.
>
>   
I was going to offer an opinion...but decided not to waste my fingers.  

I do wonder why anyone would ask these questions on a mailing list like
this one  (Not to mention that these items have been "discussed"
N-times)  Does the person *really* expect only @fedora and @redhat
people to care to respond, have an opinion, or have knowledge? 

I can only think of one of two possibilities.   Extreme naivety or
troll.  Then again, I noticed the  domain name and the word shill came
to mind.  :-) :-)



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Re: Q's for senior fedora/redhat admins

[Rahul Sundaram]

la...@ausics.net wrote:


Q1, taking into account Fedoras political and legal worries about patents
and codecs, the stuff thats commonly used by everyone who don't care about
 and are not subject to U.S laws, will Fedora versions in the future offer
something like Ubuntu, where as there is a "restricted" installed by
default repo, to get codecs like playing a MP3 or movie, or automatically
get and install wireless firmware/drivers, detecting whats needed, and
popping up a warning that it might be illegal to use this where you live
blah blah blah do you accept risks click OK  and it goes and gets and
installs whatever it is, just like ubuntu does?


Claiming it might be illegal and trying to pass off responsibility to 
end users doesn't work in US. Doing that would amount to contributory 
infringement. Users may not care but Fedora is legally based in US and 
doesn't operate in the same environment that Canonical (legal and 
commercial) entity behind Ubuntu) works. So it is not legally possible 
to do many of the things you have indicated for a US based distribution. 
Even otherwise, Fedora has explicitly no interest in supporting 
proprietary or patent encumbered software.


http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/ForbiddenItems

There are variants of Fedora which do some of this.

http://lwn.net/Articles/311650/


Q2, Will Fedora release a LTS (long term support) version that is
supported for 3 years or so, just like Ubuntu.


You might consider using Red Hat Enterprise Linux (which is derived from 
Fedora) or one of the free rebuilds where every release supported upto 
7-10 years.


http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/LifeCycle

There is some community interest in extending the lifecycle of Fedora 
itself post EOL but nothing you can use at the moment.


Rahul


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Re: automount of filesystem by label

[Tod Thomas]

Mikkel L. Ellertson wrote:

Tod Thomas wrote:
  

Mikkel L. Ellertson wrote:


Dumb question - what error message do you get when you try do "cd
/misc/sata1"? Automount does not mount anything until you try to
access it. It does not mount your drive just because you plugged it in.

Mikkel
  
  

No such file or directory, and that's doing a "cd /mnt/sata1" - I always
mount to mnt, I just reused the /etc/auto.misc file.



Oops - you are correct - I missed the change. If I remember
correctly, the mount points need to exist - automount does not
create them.

Mikkel
  
As it turns out there were two problems.  The first was a typo.  The 
second was trying to use -L to automount the partition by label.  
Instead in auto.misc I needed:


sata1   -fstype=ext3   :/dev/disk/by-label/SATA1
sata2   -fstype=ext3   :/dev/disk/by-label/SATA2

/dev/disk/by-label?  How long has that been around?


Thanks Mikkel for helping out.


- Tod

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Testing out USB mic

[Robert Moskowitz]

I have a Plantronics DSP-400 headset on a FC10 system that I am using 
for testing with SIP Communicator.


How can I test the microphone on the headset to see if it is working in
the system?




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Re: Q's for senior fedora/redhat admins

[Terry Polzin]

On Tuesday February 10 2009, la...@ausics.net wrote:
> This question is only for those who are in the decision making processes
> of Fedora.
>
> For the others, please don't take this the wrong way, but I'm simply just
> not interested in the personal views of the list membership, I know this
> will still attract those trolls who simply can't help themselves and need
> to make their comments, but unless you reply with a @redhat or @fedora
> email you will be ignored, sorry if it sounds harsh, but thats the way it
> is.
>
>
> After using Fedora and Ubuntu for a couple of years, I am wondering about
> Fedoras' future, so I have some questions to help me decide.
>
> Q1, taking into account Fedoras political and legal worries about patents
> and codecs, the stuff thats commonly used by everyone who don't care about
>  and are not subject to U.S laws, will Fedora versions in the future offer
> something like Ubuntu, where as there is a "restricted" installed by
> default repo, to get codecs like playing a MP3 or movie, or automatically
> get and install wireless firmware/drivers, detecting whats needed, and
> popping up a warning that it might be illegal to use this where you live
> blah blah blah do you accept risks click OK  and it goes and gets and
> installs whatever it is, just like ubuntu does?
>
Probably not. 
> Q2, Will Fedora release a LTS (long term support) version that is
> supported for 3 years or so, just like Ubuntu.
No that's not the model, see the thread entitled "why I want to stop using 
fedora"  Botton line, there are alternatives to the Fedora " Bleeding Edge"  
either live with it, run you're favorite Fedora version until it won't run 
any more (personally test for me is F10 on my personal laptop, F8 is my home 
desktop, F6 is a webserver of sorts and I run CentOs 5 on my machines at 
work), or move on.




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Re: Q's for senior fedora/redhat admins

[Sharpe, Sam J]

2009/2/11  :
> This question is only for those who are in the decision making processes
> of Fedora.

You can ignore me if you want, but I don't want your email to be in
the list archives without an appropriate rejoinder.

> will still attract those trolls who simply can't help themselves and need
> to make their comment

Your email reflects your knowledge and perceptions of Fedora and
actually sounds more like a troll. Perhaps contacting Red Hat directly
or your local Fedora ambassador would get you the response you want.

> Q1 will Fedora versions in the future offer
> something like Ubuntu, where as there is a "restricted" installed b
> default repo, to get codecs like playing a MP3 or movie, or

Multimedia is already done - it's called Codeina - go read about it.
Wireless - sorted by using better open drivers (e.g. new Broadcom and
Atheros code)

> Q2, Will Fedora release a LTS (long term support) version that is
> supported for 3 years or so, just like Ubuntu.

That's RHEL and/or CentOS and it's a heck of a lot longer than 3 years.

> windows does it, ubuntu does it even for Q1 after accepting the warning,
> but Fedora won't.

Your perceptions are wrong and you are not educating people correctly
for reasons above. Fedora doesn't seem to need saving as it's
community is just as vibrant and diverse as Ubuntu's - I follow both.

(Disclaimer: RHEL licence holder, Fedora user, but this EEE PC 701 is
running an Ubuntu variant - so there =oP)


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Re: Feature Proposal: Rolling Updates (was Re: WHY I WANT TO STOP USING FEDORA!!!)

[Arthur Pemberton]

On Tue, Feb 10, 2009 at 3:45 PM, Michael Cronenworth  wrote:
>  Original Message 
> Subject: Re: WHY I WANT TO STOP USING FEDORA!!!
> From: Mark Haney 
> To: Community assistance, encouragement, and advice for using Fedora.
> 
> Date: 02/10/2009 03:21 PM
>
>>
>> Now, I'm done with this thread.
>>
>>
>
> OK, great. Maybe we can speak to you now.
>
> Firefox
> Yes, it's a beast for me, too. Fedora builds FF with Pango support. Try
> disabling Pango in the /usr/bin/firefox script and see if it makes any
> difference for you (sometimes it does for me). MOZ_DISABLE_PANGO
>
> Rolling Updates
> Think about this for a second. Rolling updates work -- if you have the
> infrastructure for it. Fedora was based on Red Hat. Red Hat was supporting a
> corporate mindset of version numbers on operating systems. The mindset you
> speak of is without version numbers. You can never slap a version number on
> a rolling update distribution.
>
> In reality, for rolling updates, you need a QA staff to make sure nothing
> breaks. For Gentoo, Debian, and friends, they rely on keeping "stable"
> levels of software that are often multiple versions behind upstream. Fedora
> doesn't want to wait that long (cue "bleeding-edge" mantra). However!!!
> Fedora is actively gaining a refined and better QA team and QA system.
>
> This brings me to my point:
> While Fedora gains new features, it also gains more flexibility. PackageKit
> and friends technically allow rolling update functionality in Fedora. This
> flexibility can also be seen on the Red Hat side with their "Satellite"
> software package. We [Fedora] can now provide updates of any multitude to
> people with or without Internet access. This is a HUGE step up from the
> Fedora 1 through Fedora 6 days.
>
> Before Fedora gets to Fedora 15, 16, 17, etc... I think you should be
> actively pushing for a rolling update feature. Every release bring it up
> with FESco. Start a blog, website, etc.
> http://www.fedora-rolling-updates.org/ or whatever fits your fancy.

That won't work and will purely be annoying. If you want rolling
releases, setup a SIG to do so. These guys have work to do. They don't
seem to have free time that can be shifted to whatever you want, just
because you want it. That's the whole point of having a community --
people need to do work to get work done. Walking with a sign saying
"give me food" is not as all as effecting of growing your own food or
going out and buying some.

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Re: Feature Proposal: Rolling Updates (was Re: WHY I WANT TO STOP USING FEDORA!!!)

[Bill Davidsen]

Mark Haney wrote:

Michael Cronenworth wrote:

 Original Message 
Subject: Re: WHY I WANT TO STOP USING FEDORA!!!
From: Mark Haney 
To: Community assistance, encouragement, and advice for using Fedora.

Date: 02/10/2009 03:21 PM


Now, I'm done with this thread.



OK, great. Maybe we can speak to you now.


As if I've not been listening?  I have. I just refuse to lay down on
something like this. I am defending my position that I like rolling
updates better.  Not that everyone should.  Sheesh.


Firefox
Yes, it's a beast for me, too. Fedora builds FF with Pango support. Try
disabling Pango in the /usr/bin/firefox script and see if it makes any
difference for you (sometimes it does for me). MOZ_DISABLE_PANGO


Honestly, I am so used to FF being a slug on my desktop, I don't even
use it any more.  I use Opera now.  However, I will keep this in mind.


A little voice whispered "seamonkey" in the silence...

--
Bill Davidsen 
  "We have more to fear from the bungling of the incompetent than from
the machinations of the wicked."  - from Slashdot

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Re: Q's for senior fedora/redhat admins

[Arthur Pemberton]

On Tue, Feb 10, 2009 at 6:51 PM,   wrote:
> This question is only for those who are in the decision making processes
> of Fedora.
>
> For the others, please don't take this the wrong way, but I'm simply just
> not interested in the personal views of the list membership, I know this
> will still attract those trolls who simply can't help themselves and need
> to make their comments, but unless you reply with a @redhat or @fedora
> email you will be ignored, sorry if it sounds harsh, but thats the way it
> is.

Not all the Fedora and RedHat devs use email addresses from those domains.

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Q's for senior fedora/redhat admins

[laura]

This question is only for those who are in the decision making processes
of Fedora.

For the others, please don't take this the wrong way, but I'm simply just
not interested in the personal views of the list membership, I know this
will still attract those trolls who simply can't help themselves and need
to make their comments, but unless you reply with a @redhat or @fedora
email you will be ignored, sorry if it sounds harsh, but thats the way it
is.


After using Fedora and Ubuntu for a couple of years, I am wondering about
Fedoras' future, so I have some questions to help me decide.

Q1, taking into account Fedoras political and legal worries about patents
and codecs, the stuff thats commonly used by everyone who don't care about
 and are not subject to U.S laws, will Fedora versions in the future offer
something like Ubuntu, where as there is a "restricted" installed by
default repo, to get codecs like playing a MP3 or movie, or automatically
get and install wireless firmware/drivers, detecting whats needed, and
popping up a warning that it might be illegal to use this where you live
blah blah blah do you accept risks click OK  and it goes and gets and
installs whatever it is, just like ubuntu does?

Q2, Will Fedora release a LTS (long term support) version that is
supported for 3 years or so, just like Ubuntu.

Both of these are important to anyone I know, and my friends I've tried to
show both distributions to convert to Linux, say it's no contest, they say
windows does it, ubuntu does it even for Q1 after accepting the warning,
but Fedora wont, not a one of them, said they would even try Fedora
because of this, which goes to standing maybe as to why ubuntu has become
so popular so very fast, so will either or both of these be addressed in
the future to maybe help save Fedora?


Best,
Laura Kolwen


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Re: Feature Proposal: Rolling Updates (was Re: WHY I WANT TO STOP USING FEDORA!!!)

[Alan Evans]

On Tue, Feb 10, 2009 at 2:35 PM, Mark Haney wrote:
> No, I understood.  But what is masked is what's in rawhide,
> comparatively speaking. Granted, they aren't identical, but similar
> enough to where I can confidently say that what's in a base gentoo
> system is just as bleeding edge.  But, I don't want to get into some
> bizarre flame war over that either.

Help me out here. I've been casually following this thread and your
apparent line of reasoning leaves me wondering how you think it would
work out practically.

It seems to me that the closest you can get to rolling updates with
Fedora is to simply leave rawhide enabled all the time. Now you
understandably say that this is too bleeding edge -- the packages in
rawhide are not well-enough tested to be generally used. I agree.
After all, rawhide is specifically for working out the kinks before
general consumption.

Fine. So packages in rawhide should be moved continuously into updates
as each is found worthy of general use? But how? If by the time the
kinks are worked out, the new package requires libfoo.9, then libfoo.9
will be updated to replace the libfoo.7 that's in updates. Now
everything that required libfoo.7 also has to be moved into updates.
But what if the kinks haven't yet been worked out of those programs?
And even if they were, one of those programs may now require
libbar.65, which forces that to replace libbar.56. This doesn't have
to go very far before it's not considerably different than making a
formal release. We've gained nothing, and the whole system is probably
much less stable.

As I understand it, Gentoo doesn't suffer this because each user is
compiling their own package sets. Updating libfoo doesn't require
recursively redownloading every package that requires it because the
user already has the source to those programs. He just needs to
recompile them.

I just don't see how that can work in a general-purpose binary
distribution. Perhaps you have some ideas about how it can be
practically done that you haven't shared?

-Alan

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Re: rpmbuild question - follow on to gcc issues

[stan]

Steve wrote:
 "Mikkel L. Ellertson"  wrote: 



One way is to create your own patch that is used after the original
patch. Add it to the end of the patch list.


Yukk!! That will get really tiresome really quickly. At this point I don't 
really know what I'm looking for so I may end up having to add debug statements 
to several files.

Is there a way to apply all the patches to the source code and them remove them 
from the spec file?

Steve

I don't know if this is possible, but if it is it's a lot easier to just change the compile to be a debugging version 
and run gdb on the result.  There should be a switch, but if there isn't just change the CFLAGS to use -ggdb -Wall -O0.


Of course, it depends on what you're debugging as to whether this is feasible.

HTH

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FC10, Got Linksys WVC210 Network Webcam, Got Questions

[Jim]

FC10/KDE
Just purchased a Linksys WVC210 Network Cam. pan,tilt, motion detection, 
sound,mic. "Beautiful Hubcaps"
Works great using in FireFox-3.0 . In both Ethernet/Wireless, Wep, Wpa, 
Wpa2, password protected.

Are there any other apps in Fedora that will work with a Network Cam ??

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Re: Feature Proposal: Rolling Updates (was Re: WHY I WANT TO STOP USING FEDORA!!!)

[Mark Haney]

Michael Cronenworth wrote:
>  Original Message 

> 
> 
> You didn't get what I said. I realize that Gentoo provides all the same
> latest and greatest stuff Fedora does, however, they mask most of the
> bleeding-edge stuff that Fedora has already.

No, I understood.  But what is masked is what's in rawhide,
comparatively speaking. Granted, they aren't identical, but similar
enough to where I can confidently say that what's in a base gentoo
system is just as bleeding edge.  But, I don't want to get into some
bizarre flame war over that either.

Somehow, my endorsing rolling updates become some sort of attack on me
and gentoo, instead of discussing the actual original topic of the post.
 While I will defend my position to my last breath if I consider it
valid even after listening to opposing points, I'm rather sick of having
to defend everything I say regardless.



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Re: Feature Proposal: Rolling Updates (was Re: WHY I WANT TO STOP USING FEDORA!!!)

[Michael Cronenworth]

 Original Message 
Subject: Re: Feature Proposal: Rolling Updates (was Re: WHY I WANT TO 
STOP	USING FEDORA!!!)

From: Mark Haney 
To: Community assistance, encouragement, and advice for using Fedora. 


Date: 02/10/2009 04:10 PM



Sorry, I hate to break it to you, Gentoo's versions are just as up to
date and bleeding edge as Fedora's.  I'm running KDE 4.2.  The .28
kernel, etc, etc.  So that argument fails in my opinion.

I do believe that Fedora has a QA staff as well.  So, I don't see your
point here.  I'd dare say my gentoo system is as 'bleeding edge' as most
fedora boxes.  QA is QA.  Bug reports are bug reports.




You didn't get what I said. I realize that Gentoo provides all the same 
latest and greatest stuff Fedora does, however, they mask most of the 
bleeding-edge stuff that Fedora has already.


I suppose PackageKit could have a similar flag option... "stable," 
"bleeding-edge," and "rawhide." ;)


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Re: Feature Proposal: Rolling Updates (was Re: WHY I WANT TO STOP USING FEDORA!!!)

[Mark Haney]

Michael Cronenworth wrote:
>  Original Message 
> Subject: Re: WHY I WANT TO STOP USING FEDORA!!!
> From: Mark Haney 
> To: Community assistance, encouragement, and advice for using Fedora.
> 
> Date: 02/10/2009 03:21 PM
> 
>>
>> Now, I'm done with this thread.
>>
>>
> 
> OK, great. Maybe we can speak to you now.

As if I've not been listening?  I have. I just refuse to lay down on
something like this. I am defending my position that I like rolling
updates better.  Not that everyone should.  Sheesh.

> 
> Firefox
> Yes, it's a beast for me, too. Fedora builds FF with Pango support. Try
> disabling Pango in the /usr/bin/firefox script and see if it makes any
> difference for you (sometimes it does for me). MOZ_DISABLE_PANGO

Honestly, I am so used to FF being a slug on my desktop, I don't even
use it any more.  I use Opera now.  However, I will keep this in mind.


> 
> Rolling Updates
> Think about this for a second. Rolling updates work -- if you have the
> infrastructure for it. Fedora was based on Red Hat. Red Hat was
> supporting a corporate mindset of version numbers on operating systems.
> The mindset you speak of is without version numbers. You can never slap
> a version number on a rolling update distribution.

I never said Fedora NEEDED to change.  I never demanded that they should
I simply stated my preference for rolling updates.  I'm more than aware
of Fedora's beginnings. I was using RH4.2 long ago. I'm also about 3
hours from their corporate offices and have stayed loyal because of that
and because they do damn good work.


> 
> In reality, for rolling updates, you need a QA staff to make sure
> nothing breaks. For Gentoo, Debian, and friends, they rely on keeping
> "stable" levels of software that are often multiple versions behind
> upstream. Fedora doesn't want to wait that long (cue "bleeding-edge"
> mantra). However!!! Fedora is actively gaining a refined and better QA
> team and QA system.

Sorry, I hate to break it to you, Gentoo's versions are just as up to
date and bleeding edge as Fedora's.  I'm running KDE 4.2.  The .28
kernel, etc, etc.  So that argument fails in my opinion.

I do believe that Fedora has a QA staff as well.  So, I don't see your
point here.  I'd dare say my gentoo system is as 'bleeding edge' as most
fedora boxes.  QA is QA.  Bug reports are bug reports.




> 
> This brings me to my point:
> While Fedora gains new features, it also gains more flexibility.
> PackageKit and friends technically allow rolling update functionality in
> Fedora. This flexibility can also be seen on the Red Hat side with their
> "Satellite" software package. We [Fedora] can now provide updates of any
> multitude to people with or without Internet access. This is a HUGE step
> up from the Fedora 1 through Fedora 6 days.

Hey, I'm not knocking the feature set in Fedora.  RH drives a lot of
technology adoption and always has.  I've never had a beef there.
Personally, I've seen too many issues with PackageKit to be real fond of
it at present.  But I do like what I see.

> 
> Before Fedora gets to Fedora 15, 16, 17, etc... I think you should be
> actively pushing for a rolling update feature. Every release bring it up
> with FESco. Start a blog, website, etc.
> http://www.fedora-rolling-updates.org/ or whatever fits your fancy.

I suppose I can do that, but it seems there are too many conservative
elements who think that it does more harm than good.  I would like to
see it as an option at the very least.

> 
> I can see one day that we rid ourselves of a distribution versioning
> scheme. It's old, it's obsolete, and it's does more harm than good. You
> must get the right people to see this or else it will just be a pipe dream.
> 
> 
Versioning is fine for packages. I'm just not sure it's valid for
operating systems like linux any more.  I suppose, if it must be
versioned that my gentoo box is 2008.0.  However, it's just gentoo to
me. I rarely even think about versions.  I certainly see the need for
'checkpoints' in the distro for QA, etc.  But a full 'upgrade' cycle I
just don't see any longer.



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Re: WHY I WANT TO STOP USING FEDORA!!!

[Jeff Spaleta]

On Tue, Feb 10, 2009 at 12:29 PM, Mark Haney  wrote:
> Sorry, I am not patching FF with anything out of the tree. It's a plain
> jane build, including nspluginwrapper, which, by all accounts should
> kill performance.  It doesn't.  It's much more responsive than fedora's
> base FF build.
>
> Look, again, this isn't 'let's compare distros'.  It was an example of
> my personal experience in an effort to demonstrate my point.  Which, of
> course was totally off the thread to begin with.  I like fedora.  I like
> gentoo.  I happen to like gentoo's update mechanism and design better.
> So what?  To each his own. I only wanted to point out that rolling
> updates are not the kiss of death some people make it out to be.

I'm not looking to compare...im looking to figure out if there is a
problem in Fedora's build..where the problem is. To understand that I
need to know exactly what the build time differences. You can choose
to help me do that by supplying the necessary details for me from your
gentoo build to find what could be causing the problem in Fedora's
build of FF... or you can just choose not to help.  If there is a
problem in the Fedora build, its not going to magically go away,
someone has to figure out where it is. I'm willing to put that effort
in all you need to do is give me enough information about your gentoo
build specifics so I can regenerate an equivalent binary on a Fedora
system.

-jef

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Feature Proposal: Rolling Updates (was Re: WHY I WANT TO STOP USING FEDORA!!!)

[Michael Cronenworth]

 Original Message 
Subject: Re: WHY I WANT TO STOP USING FEDORA!!!
From: Mark Haney 
To: Community assistance, encouragement, and advice for using Fedora. 


Date: 02/10/2009 03:21 PM



Now, I'm done with this thread.




OK, great. Maybe we can speak to you now.

Firefox
Yes, it's a beast for me, too. Fedora builds FF with Pango support. Try 
disabling Pango in the /usr/bin/firefox script and see if it makes any 
difference for you (sometimes it does for me). MOZ_DISABLE_PANGO


Rolling Updates
Think about this for a second. Rolling updates work -- if you have the 
infrastructure for it. Fedora was based on Red Hat. Red Hat was 
supporting a corporate mindset of version numbers on operating systems. 
The mindset you speak of is without version numbers. You can never slap 
a version number on a rolling update distribution.


In reality, for rolling updates, you need a QA staff to make sure 
nothing breaks. For Gentoo, Debian, and friends, they rely on keeping 
"stable" levels of software that are often multiple versions behind 
upstream. Fedora doesn't want to wait that long (cue "bleeding-edge" 
mantra). However!!! Fedora is actively gaining a refined and better QA 
team and QA system.


This brings me to my point:
While Fedora gains new features, it also gains more flexibility. 
PackageKit and friends technically allow rolling update functionality in 
Fedora. This flexibility can also be seen on the Red Hat side with their 
"Satellite" software package. We [Fedora] can now provide updates of any 
multitude to people with or without Internet access. This is a HUGE step 
up from the Fedora 1 through Fedora 6 days.


Before Fedora gets to Fedora 15, 16, 17, etc... I think you should be 
actively pushing for a rolling update feature. Every release bring it up 
with FESco. Start a blog, website, etc. 
http://www.fedora-rolling-updates.org/ or whatever fits your fancy.


I can see one day that we rid ourselves of a distribution versioning 
scheme. It's old, it's obsolete, and it's does more harm than good. You 
must get the right people to see this or else it will just be a pipe dream.



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Re: End of Saga WHY I WANT TO STOP USING FEDORA!!!

[Charles Crayne]

On Tue, 10 Feb 2009 09:10:04 -0500
"Mark Haney"  wrote:

> It's 500+MB of
> updates.  With rolling updates it's possible to scale that down, I
> think.

Your post makes it seem like Fedora does not do any rolling updates. I
haven't been keeping an exact count, but since F10's release, I'm
pretty sure that I have installed several hundred updated packages,
totaling over 500MB in size. By the time that F11 is released, I expect
that more than half of the original F10 packages will have been updated.
In addition, many of the F11 packages will be subsequently repackaged
for F10, which will still be supported for about another six months.

Having said that, however, I agree that there is still room for
improvement 

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Re: rpmbuild question - follow on to gcc issues

[Kevin Kofler]

Steve wrote:
> Is there a way to apply all the patches to the source code and them remove
> them from the spec file?

Yet it's the right way. It's how we packagers always work.

Kevin Kofler

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Re: rpmbuild question - follow on to gcc issues

[Dennis Gilmore]

On Tuesday 10 February 2009 09:52:14 am Steve wrote:
> I downloaded a src rpm, built it using rpmbuild and the spec file and ran
> it. So far, so good. Now I want to modify the source to add some debugging
> statements. The problem is that the src rpm contains a number of patches
> and one of the patches is to the file I want to modify. Now when I
> rpmbuild, the patching fails because the source file it is trying to patch
> doesn't look the same.
>
> What is the Fedora way of dealing with this situation?
>
> Let me know if this needs to be moved to the devel list.
do a rpmbuild -bpthen you can can go into the prepared source and 
make you patch toapply in the spec. I almost have a new fedora-packager update 
ready  which will allow anonmous checkouts of fedora packages from cvs  you 
can grab the script from https://fedorahosted.org/fedora-
packager/browser/src/fedora-cvs.py  it requires you have PyOpenSSL and cvs 
installed

Dennis

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Re: WHY I WANT TO STOP USING FEDORA!!!

[Mark Haney]

James Harrison wrote:
>> gentoo system booting in under 20 seconds as compared to over 40 forFedora.
> Perhaps its your laptop? My system ( 64 bit running 32 bit FC10 ) does it 
> round about 20 (from the time grub takes over the system).

Not the laptop.  Why would Fedora take twice as long?  Because there are
more default services and a bigger OS in general.
> 
>> I also like the control to what packages I install and what compile options 
>> I need.
> Create your own RPM Fedora packages and compile them with your own settings.

So, in other words, you want to do with Fedora what I do with Gentoo?
That's why I use Gentoo. Why recreate the wheel with Fedora?

> 
>> the slug that is FF on Fedora
> Nothing appears wrong from here for me.
> 
> 

Look, I'm not in this thread to defend gentoo over Fedora, or trash
Fedora in any way. I think the rolling updates idea is a better option
than an upgrade every 6-10 months and hope the upgrade works.  In a lot
of cases, the Fedora upgrade borks something. And before anyone reads me
the 'bleeding edge' riot act, I know that already. The fact is, with the
rolling updates of gentoo, my system is more stable than my fedora box
right after an upgrade. I understand it a difference in philosophy, but
I have yet to hear a really compelling reason for /not/ doing rolling
updates.  gentoo has been doing it for a long time and I've seen no
major drawbacks of their methods of updating.

With that said, there's nothing particularly wrong with Fedora's method
either, I just like gentoo's better.

Now, I'm done with this thread.


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Re: WHY I WANT TO STOP USING FEDORA!!!

[Mark Haney]

Jeff Spaleta wrote:
> On Tue, Feb 10, 2009 at 10:23 AM, Mark Haney  wrote:
>> The biggest one being Firefox.  I have no idea what is going on with
>> Fedora's Firefox, but the exact same set of plugins and configuration on
>> gentoo and it screams compared to the slug that is FF on Fedora.  FF on
>> fedora is almost unusable with a standard setup on Fedora.
> 
> Wow, almost unusable. And yet I use it all the time. Hyperbole is great!

NOT hyperbole. I simply cannot use it on my desktop with the plugins
enabled. A standard set of mozilla plugins I might add.  It works fine
without them.  Oh, i'm sure I could narrow done which of the 2 or three
I use, but why does Fedora choke on it when Gentoo, Suse, and Mandriva
don't?


> Anyways... you tell me exactly what buildtime options you are using in
> that screaming Gentoo version, including any out of tree patches that
> maybe applied, and I'll make an effort to indentify the differences
> between that and the build time setup at the firefox package in
> Fedora.
> 
> -jef
> 

Sorry, I am not patching FF with anything out of the tree. It's a plain
jane build, including nspluginwrapper, which, by all accounts should
kill performance.  It doesn't.  It's much more responsive than fedora's
base FF build.

Look, again, this isn't 'let's compare distros'.  It was an example of
my personal experience in an effort to demonstrate my point.  Which, of
course was totally off the thread to begin with.  I like fedora.  I like
gentoo.  I happen to like gentoo's update mechanism and design better.
So what?  To each his own. I only wanted to point out that rolling
updates are not the kiss of death some people make it out to be.



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Re: rpmbuild question - follow on to gcc issues

[Matthew Saltzman]

On Tue, 2009-02-10 at 11:58 -0500, homb...@tips-q.com wrote:
> On Tue, 10 Feb 2009 10:52:14 -0500
> Steve  wrote:
> > the src rpm contains a number of patches
> > and one of the patches is to the file I want to modify.
> > Now when I rpmbuild, the patching fails because the
> > source file it is trying to patch doesn't look the same.
> > 
> > What is the Fedora way of dealing with this situation?
> > 
> Once you modify a package your warranty is null and void ;-)
> 
> Edit the patch and make a note in the spec file. 

I was going to suggest "rpmbuild -bp" which unpacks and applies included
patches.  Then edit the patched file and create a patch of your own.
Add it to the spec file after the other patch, so yours is applied after
the included one.  Then do the full build.

> 
-- 
Matthew Saltzman

Clemson University Math Sciences
mjs AT clemson DOT edu
http://www.math.clemson.edu/~mjs

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Re: fedora 11: (testing results) fyi

[gary artim]

On Tue, Feb 10, 2009 at 10:01 AM, Bill Davidsen  wrote:
> gary artim wrote:
>>
>> Bill -- what OS where you running on KVM? Just curious cause I have
>> some users that run xp under vmplayer and am looking to switch to KVM.
>>
> I run KVM on FC9 with whatever comes with on a quad Intel Q9400, and that's
> where I did my test install. I'm going to try the live CD later today, and
> if it works well I'll install on a laptop, since it can't really hurt
> anything.
>
> I also run FC9 on my dual-core AMD Acer laptop, KVM works there, and on a
> hacked FC6 system with dual-core i6600 and a more recent version of KVM (65
> from memory). That runs the system I'm writing on, which is RH8 upgraded in
> stages to FC9.
>
>> On Sun, Feb 8, 2009 at 6:29 PM, Bill Davidsen  wrote:
>>>
>>> gary artim wrote:

 guess I should bugzilla some of these, but in general I had good
 results. The segfault in ld-linux showed up in the log
 but I only noted when check for error messages.

>>> I did an install in a VM under KVM for a smoke test before actually
>>> putting
>>> it on a machine. Video worked, although I did have to install
>>> system-config-display and set the display type before I could get the
>>> resolution I wanted.
>>>
>>> I will test on a real machine if it looks good with a little use...
>>>
>
> --
> Bill Davidsen 
>  "We have more to fear from the bungling of the incompetent than from
> the machinations of the wicked."  - from Slashdot
>
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are you running WinXP under kvm? -- gary

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Re: rpmbuild question - follow on to gcc issues

[homburg]

On Tue, 10 Feb 2009 14:00:23 -0500
Steve  wrote:

> 
> Is there a way to apply all the patches to the source
> code and them remove them from the spec file?

Have you looked at the patches? At the risk of being
an apostate, you might not need them in the first place.
"fix_errors_rendering_khmen" might not be necessary unless
you live in Cambodia. In that case, you can just comment
them out in the spec file. 

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Re: WHY I WANT TO STOP USING FEDORA!!!

[Jeff Spaleta]

On Tue, Feb 10, 2009 at 10:23 AM, Mark Haney  wrote:
> The biggest one being Firefox.  I have no idea what is going on with
> Fedora's Firefox, but the exact same set of plugins and configuration on
> gentoo and it screams compared to the slug that is FF on Fedora.  FF on
> fedora is almost unusable with a standard setup on Fedora.

Wow, almost unusable. And yet I use it all the time. Hyperbole is great!
Anyways... you tell me exactly what buildtime options you are using in
that screaming Gentoo version, including any out of tree patches that
maybe applied, and I'll make an effort to indentify the differences
between that and the build time setup at the firefox package in
Fedora.

-jef

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Re: WHY I WANT TO STOP USING FEDORA!!!

[James Harrison]

>gentoo system booting in under 20 seconds as compared to over 40 forFedora.
Perhaps its your laptop? My system ( 64 bit running 32 bit FC10 ) does it round 
about 20 (from the time grub takes over the system).

>I also like the control to what packages I install and what compile options I 
>need.
Create your own RPM Fedora packages and compile them with your own settings.

>the slug that is FF on Fedora
Nothing appears wrong from here for me.




From: Mark Haney 
To: "Community assistance, encouragement, and advice for using Fedora." 

Sent: Tuesday, February 10, 2009 2:23:30 PM
Subject: Re: WHY I WANT TO STOP USING FEDORA!!!

James Harrison wrote:
>> fed up with Network Manager
> If you want you don't have to use networking with Network Manager. It is 
> optional whether you use it or not.
> 

I am quite aware of that.  (In fact, we had a really long thread about
that very subject.)  However, the more I do, the more I really like my
gentoo system booting in under 20 seconds as compared to over 40 for
Fedora.

I also like the control to what packages I install and what compile
options I need.  Granted, not everyone knows or cares about those
things, but virtually everything I run on gentoo on my laptop runs
faster than the exact same package in Fedora on the same system.  And
I'm not talking barely noticeable I'm talking very obviously faster.

The biggest one being Firefox.  I have no idea what is going on with
Fedora's Firefox, but the exact same set of plugins and configuration on
gentoo and it screams compared to the slug that is FF on Fedora.  FF on
fedora is almost unusable with a standard setup on Fedora.


-- 
Frustra laborant quotquot se calculationibus fatigant pro inventione
quadraturae circuli

Mark Haney
Sr. Systems Administrator
ERC Broadband
(828) 350-2415

Call (866) ERC-7110 for after hours support

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Re: WHY I WANT TO STOP USING FEDORA!!!

[suvayu ali]

2009/2/10 Jeff Spaleta :
> On Tue, Feb 10, 2009 at 9:05 AM, suvayu ali  
> wrote:
>> That is well said. We recently deployed some Scientific Linux virtual
>> machines at our lab, and conary helps there in keeping the size of the
>> images significantly small.
>
> Is SL using conary?

No. It is a customised SL virtual machine called CernVM targeted
towards High Energy Physics data analysis. The packages used for these
are really large (of the order of 10+ gigs), so disk space is at a
premium.

In case you are interested here are some links,
https://twiki.cern.ch/twiki/bin/view/Atlas/CernVM
http://cernvm.cern.ch/cernvm/

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Re: rpmbuild question - follow on to gcc issues

[Mikkel L. Ellertson]

Steve wrote:
>  "Mikkel L. Ellertson"  wrote: 
>> One way is to create your own patch that is used after the original
>> patch. Add it to the end of the patch list.
> 
> Yukk!! That will get really tiresome really quickly. At this
> point I don't really know what I'm looking for so I may end up having to
> add debug statements to several files.
> 
> Is there a way to apply all the patches to the source code and
> them remove them from the spec file?
> 
> Steve
> 
Well, if you are debugging the program, you would probably be better
off running "rpmbuild -bp " and then make your changes in
the build directory. Then run make manually. You can do this all as
a normal user. Depending on what you are building, you may be able
to run it as a normal user from the build directory. If not, you are
probably going to override the make file so it installs relative to
your home directory. Once you have it debugged, you can transfere
the changes to the virgin source with a patch, or pass them upstream...

Mikkel
-- 

  Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons,
for thou art crunchy and taste good with Ketchup!



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Re: Fedora9 supported webcam list

[g]

Roman wrote:

> Where can I read about supported webcams for Fedora9?

redhat video4linux, find at https://redhat.com/mailman/listinfo

more links;
 http://www.videolan.org/  http://www.quickcamteam.net/
 http://zc0302.sourceforge.net/zc0302.php?page=cams [links at left of page]
 http://wiki.wengophone.com/index.php/Tested_webcams


-- 
peace out.

tc,hago.

g
.


in a free world without fences, who needs gates.
**
help microsoft stamp out piracy - give linux to a friend today
**
to mess up a linux box, you need to work at it;
to mess up an ms windows box, you just need to *look at* it.
**
learn linux:
'Rute User's Tutorial and Exposition' http://rute.2038bug.com/index.html
'The Linux Documentation Project' http://www.tldp.org/
'LDP HOWTO-index' http://www.tldp.org/HOWTO/HOWTO-INDEX/index.html
'HowtoForge' http://howtoforge.com/




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Re: WHY I WANT TO STOP USING FEDORA!!!

[Mark Haney]

James Harrison wrote:
>> fed up with Network Manager
> If you want you don't have to use networking with Network Manager. It is 
> optional whether you use it or not.
> 

I am quite aware of that.  (In fact, we had a really long thread about
that very subject.)  However, the more I do, the more I really like my
gentoo system booting in under 20 seconds as compared to over 40 for
Fedora.

I also like the control to what packages I install and what compile
options I need.  Granted, not everyone knows or cares about those
things, but virtually everything I run on gentoo on my laptop runs
faster than the exact same package in Fedora on the same system.  And
I'm not talking barely noticeable I'm talking very obviously faster.

The biggest one being Firefox.  I have no idea what is going on with
Fedora's Firefox, but the exact same set of plugins and configuration on
gentoo and it screams compared to the slug that is FF on Fedora.  FF on
fedora is almost unusable with a standard setup on Fedora.


-- 
Frustra laborant quotquot se calculationibus fatigant pro inventione
quadraturae circuli

Mark Haney
Sr. Systems Administrator
ERC Broadband
(828) 350-2415

Call (866) ERC-7110 for after hours support

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Re: WHY I WANT TO STOP USING FEDORA!!!

[James Harrison]

> fed up with Network Manager
If you want you don't have to use networking with Network Manager. It is 
optional whether you use it or not.





From: Bill Davidsen 
To: fedora-list@redhat.com
Sent: Tuesday, February 10, 2009 1:21:23 PM
Subject: Re: WHY I WANT TO STOP USING FEDORA!!!

Mark Haney wrote:
> Wayne Feick wrote:
> 
>> I have to say, this is why I switched *away* from gentoo. It seemed like
>> a good idea at first, but I got tired of being surprised far too often
>> by someone deciding to make changes that required my attention. A lot of
>> the changes seemed to be of the class "wouldn't the piano.config look
>> better over there?" and "let's invent a new way of doing something that
>> works fine now".
>> 
>> If you're looking for a system that requires less of your time to manage
>> than Fedora, I suspect you'll discover you've gone in the opposite
>> direction with gentoo.
> 
> Not true.  I have less to manage with Gentoo.  It's not as
> user-unfriendly as you make it out to be.  It might have been at first,
> as they were getting their feet wet, so to speak, but I've had nothing
> but good experiences with Gentoo for 3+ years.  Honestly, I wouldn't go
> back to Fedora on this laptop of mine for anything.  In fact, I got so
> fed up with Network Manager on my daughter's new laptop, that I
> installed Gentoo on it and got rid of Fedora just so I wouldn't have to
> deal with that pile of crap NM.
> 
Why don't you stop be polite and tell us how you *really* feel about NM?  ;-)

Actually I totally agree about NM, it worked perfectly for me in FC9, until the 
1st or 2nd "security upgrade" after which it doesn't work at all on any laptop 
I have. It appears to try to make the WEP connection before the supplicant is 
running. I'm told that running WPA doesn't have that issue, and if someone 
wants to give me an economic stimulus of about $12k I'll upgrade hardware and 
software so I don't need WEP.

But removing NM (I didn't say stopping) makes the network stuff run fine on 
everything I've tried. I just don't need to learn a new distribution unless a 
client pays me to support it. [ note lack of smiley here ]

-- Bill Davidsen 
  "We have more to fear from the bungling of the incompetent than from
the machinations of the wicked."  - from Slashdot

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Re: rpmbuild question - follow on to gcc issues

[Steve]

 "Mikkel L. Ellertson"  wrote: 
> Steve wrote:
> > I downloaded a src rpm, built it using rpmbuild and the spec file
> > and ran it. So far, so good. Now I want to modify the source to add
> > some debugging statements. The problem is that the src rpm contains
> > a number of patches and one of the patches is to the file I want to
> > modify. Now when I rpmbuild, the patching fails because the source
> > file it is trying to patch doesn't look the same.
> > 
> > What is the Fedora way of dealing with this situation?
> > 
> > Let me know if this needs to be moved to the devel list.
> > 
> > Thanks,
> > Steve.
> > 
> One way is to create your own patch that is used after the original
> patch. Add it to the end of the patch list.

Yukk!! That will get really tiresome really quickly. At this point I don't 
really know what I'm looking for so I may end up having to add debug statements 
to several files.

Is there a way to apply all the patches to the source code and them remove them 
from the spec file?

Steve

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Re: WHY I WANT TO STOP USING FEDORA!!!

[Jeff Spaleta]

On Tue, Feb 10, 2009 at 9:05 AM, suvayu ali  wrote:
> That is well said. We recently deployed some Scientific Linux virtual
> machines at our lab, and conary helps there in keeping the size of the
> images significantly small.

Is SL using conary?

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Re: WHY I WANT TO STOP USING FEDORA!!!

[Bill Davidsen]

Arthur Pemberton wrote:

On Mon, Feb 9, 2009 at 11:03 PM, Mike Chalmers  wrote:

Nothing else makes as much sense to me in the open source world that
isn't a 'paid' or 'enterprise' edition.

Mark we are definitely on the same page. Open source works together,
so it is very understandable why a rolling release is good, imo.


I hope you  at least understand why a rolling release is technically
difficult, especially in a distro like Fedora where things can change
radically from one release to another.

Note that "things can change radically" without a release change... as anyone 
who has used Fedora for a while will tell you. I'd still like to see an extra 
six months of "Fedora Legacy" to fill the hole between cutting edge and 
obsolete. Um, I mean stable of course. ;-)


--
Bill Davidsen 
  "We have more to fear from the bungling of the incompetent than from
the machinations of the wicked."  - from Slashdot

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Re: WHY I WANT TO STOP USING FEDORA!!!

[Bill Davidsen]

Mark Haney wrote:

Wayne Feick wrote:


I have to say, this is why I switched *away* from gentoo. It seemed like
a good idea at first, but I got tired of being surprised far too often
by someone deciding to make changes that required my attention. A lot of
the changes seemed to be of the class "wouldn't the piano.config look
better over there?" and "let's invent a new way of doing something that
works fine now".

If you're looking for a system that requires less of your time to manage
than Fedora, I suspect you'll discover you've gone in the opposite
direction with gentoo.


Not true.  I have less to manage with Gentoo.  It's not as
user-unfriendly as you make it out to be.  It might have been at first,
as they were getting their feet wet, so to speak, but I've had nothing
but good experiences with Gentoo for 3+ years.  Honestly, I wouldn't go
back to Fedora on this laptop of mine for anything.  In fact, I got so
fed up with Network Manager on my daughter's new laptop, that I
installed Gentoo on it and got rid of Fedora just so I wouldn't have to
deal with that pile of crap NM.


Why don't you stop be polite and tell us how you *really* feel about NM?  ;-)

Actually I totally agree about NM, it worked perfectly for me in FC9, until the 
1st or 2nd "security upgrade" after which it doesn't work at all on any laptop I 
have. It appears to try to make the WEP connection before the supplicant is 
running. I'm told that running WPA doesn't have that issue, and if someone wants 
to give me an economic stimulus of about $12k I'll upgrade hardware and software 
so I don't need WEP.


But removing NM (I didn't say stopping) makes the network stuff run fine on 
everything I've tried. I just don't need to learn a new distribution unless a 
client pays me to support it. [ note lack of smiley here ]


--
Bill Davidsen 
  "We have more to fear from the bungling of the incompetent than from
the machinations of the wicked."  - from Slashdot

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Re: Morph software

[Bryn M. Reeves]

Bill Davidsen wrote:
I found that xmrm.com is still there, but the link to the source isn't. 
If I could get the source, once I get a way to generate the individual 
images I can easily use ffmpeg to create a stream from the images, I do 
that for some various fun projects I have, and in fact that's kind of 
better from my point of view.


I found some sources patched for Mandrake 8 here:

http://www.linuxfocus.org/common/src/article139/

Homburg pointed me to the download on Tucows although I could only 
find pre-built binaries there. They're statically linked however and 
do at least start up on a recent distro (f10) but I didn't have time 
to play and find out what breaks yet.


Regards,
Bryn.

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Re: Morph software

[Bill Davidsen]

homb...@tips-q.com wrote:

On Mon, 09 Feb 2009 13:11:24 -0500
Todd Denniston  wrote:


Bill Davidsen wrote, On 02/07/2009 11:13 PM:

Paul-Erik Törrönen wrote:

On Fri, 2009-02-06 at 16:02 -0500, Bill Davidsen wrote:

 I'm looking for some morphing software, to take two
images, and generate some  "intermediate" images to
show the effect of a smooth transition from one to
the other.

One such program is the convert-command, which is part
of the ImageMagick-package.


I'd like to get Ann Coulter -> Phyllis Shlafly ;-) but I
digress.


s/Phyllis Shlafly/Rachael Maddow/

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the machinations of the wicked."  - from Slashdot

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Re: Morph software

[Bill Davidsen]

homb...@tips-q.com wrote:

On Mon, 09 Feb 2009 13:11:24 -0500
Todd Denniston  wrote:


Bill Davidsen wrote, On 02/07/2009 11:13 PM:

Paul-Erik Törrönen wrote:

On Fri, 2009-02-06 at 16:02 -0500, Bill Davidsen wrote:

 I'm looking for some morphing software, to take two
images, and generate some  "intermediate" images to
show the effect of a smooth transition from one to
the other.

One such program is the convert-command, which is part
of the ImageMagick-package.


I'd like to get Ann Coulter -> Phyllis Shlafly ;-) but I
digress.

I checked through freshmeat, sourceforge and rpmfind. There
are xmorph, morphine and XMRM. These are all 20th
century packages and deprecated. Xmorph and morphine will
not compile. XMRM (which otherwise looks like the most
promising candidate) requires /usr/bin/mpeg which is
unavailable. Linking "mpeg" to other encoders doesn't work.

Perhaps something for win. will run in wine or a VM??

I found that xmrm.com is still there, but the link to the source isn't. If I 
could get the source, once I get a way to generate the individual images I can 
easily use ffmpeg to create a stream from the images, I do that for some various 
fun projects I have, and in fact that's kind of better from my point of view.


--
Bill Davidsen 
  "We have more to fear from the bungling of the incompetent than from
the machinations of the wicked."  - from Slashdot

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Re: WHY I WANT TO STOP USING FEDORA!!!

[suvayu ali]

2009/2/10 Jeff Spaleta :
> On Tue, Feb 10, 2009 at 8:52 AM, Craig White  wrote:
>> Red Hat/Fedora, Debian (and all derivatives like Ubuntu) and Gentoo all
>> use different methodologies and philosophies to ultimately give you a
>> running system and they all work.
>
> What? No shout out to rpath and Foresight.  From a packaging
> technology pov.. I think the coronary stuff is very very interesting
> and very very flexible.
>
> If we are moving to a future where netbooks are glorified embedded
> devices with OEM tailored software images, coronary might actually be
> a better model for software distribution that means the needs of OEMs
>
That is well said. We recently deployed some Scientific Linux virtual
machines at our lab, and conary helps there in keeping the size of the
images significantly small.

> -jef
>

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Re: fedora 11: (testing results) fyi

[Bill Davidsen]

gary artim wrote:

Bill -- what OS where you running on KVM? Just curious cause I have
some users that run xp under vmplayer and am looking to switch to KVM.

I run KVM on FC9 with whatever comes with on a quad Intel Q9400, and that's 
where I did my test install. I'm going to try the live CD later today, and if it 
works well I'll install on a laptop, since it can't really hurt anything.


I also run FC9 on my dual-core AMD Acer laptop, KVM works there, and on a hacked 
FC6 system with dual-core i6600 and a more recent version of KVM (65 from 
memory). That runs the system I'm writing on, which is RH8 upgraded in stages to 
FC9.



On Sun, Feb 8, 2009 at 6:29 PM, Bill Davidsen  wrote:

gary artim wrote:

guess I should bugzilla some of these, but in general I had good
results. The segfault in ld-linux showed up in the log
but I only noted when check for error messages.


I did an install in a VM under KVM for a smoke test before actually putting
it on a machine. Video worked, although I did have to install
system-config-display and set the display type before I could get the
resolution I wanted.

I will test on a real machine if it looks good with a little use...



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Re: rpmbuild question - follow on to gcc issues

[homburg]

On Tue, 10 Feb 2009 12:42:54 -0500
James Kosin  wrote:

> homb...@tips-q.com wrote:
> >> What is the Fedora way of dealing with this situation?
> >>
> > Once you modify a package your warranty is null and
> > void ;-)
> > 
> 
> Actually, there is NO WARRANTY of any sort.
> 
My sarcasm projector is obviously out of warranty ;-)

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Re: WHY I WANT TO STOP USING FEDORA!!!

[Jeff Spaleta]

On Tue, Feb 10, 2009 at 8:52 AM, Craig White  wrote:
> Red Hat/Fedora, Debian (and all derivatives like Ubuntu) and Gentoo all
> use different methodologies and philosophies to ultimately give you a
> running system and they all work.

What? No shout out to rpath and Foresight.  From a packaging
technology pov.. I think the coronary stuff is very very interesting
and very very flexible.

If we are moving to a future where netbooks are glorified embedded
devices with OEM tailored software images, coronary might actually be
a better model for software distribution that means the needs of OEMs

-jef

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Re: samba

[Craig White]

On Tue, 2009-02-10 at 12:41 -0500, Reuben D. Budiardja wrote:
> On Tuesday 10 February 2009 10:58:44 am GMS S wrote:
> > Hi,
> > I installed samba.
> > rpm -q samba
> > samba-3.2.8-0.26.fc10.i386
> >
> > How can I configure it and use it?
> > Can anyone tell?
> 
> Try "system-config-samba". You may have to install that package if you don't 
> already have it. It will provide you with basic configuration GUI, and that's 
> probably sufficient if you don't do anything fancy.
> 
> Then you have to turn on the service:
> /sbin/service smb start
> 
> and make sure it's started automatically after reboot (run as root): 
> chkconfig smb on

note that on Fedora, nmb is a separate 'service' and it is likely that
you want to run that as well.

Craig

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Re: rpmbuild question - follow on to gcc issues

[Mikkel L. Ellertson]

Steve wrote:
> I downloaded a src rpm, built it using rpmbuild and the spec file
> and ran it. So far, so good. Now I want to modify the source to add
> some debugging statements. The problem is that the src rpm contains
> a number of patches and one of the patches is to the file I want to
> modify. Now when I rpmbuild, the patching fails because the source
> file it is trying to patch doesn't look the same.
> 
> What is the Fedora way of dealing with this situation?
> 
> Let me know if this needs to be moved to the devel list.
> 
> Thanks,
> Steve.
> 
One way is to create your own patch that is used after the original
patch. Add it to the end of the patch list.

Mikkel
-- 

  Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons,
for thou art crunchy and taste good with Ketchup!



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Re: WHY I WANT TO STOP USING FEDORA!!!

[Craig White]

On Tue, 2009-02-10 at 08:46 -0500, Mark Haney wrote:

> I just fail to see why Fedora can't be handled the same way as Gentoo.
> It's all linux.  They are all the same packages.  I'm not advocating or
> demanding a change, just voicing my opinion on it.  I'm not that kind of
> revolutionary, I just think rolling updates are the way to go.
> 
> *puts up soapbox*

the really cool thing about Linux is that the source code is available
for all to implement and probably the biggest difference between
distributions is the methodology of packaging and updating.

Red Hat/Fedora, Debian (and all derivatives like Ubuntu) and Gentoo all
use different methodologies and philosophies to ultimately give you a
running system and they all work.

If one serves your needs better than the other, go with it.

The competition between the various distributions is good for Linux in
general and when one of them seems to develop a technological advantage,
the others generally adapt.

Perhaps the most telling thing about this particular thread is that
those who seem to vociferous opinions have no experience in packaging.

Craig

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Re: Fedora9 supported webcam list

[Paolo Galtieri]

Take a look at this site

http://linux-uvc.berlios.de/

Paolo

On Mon, Feb 9, 2009 at 10:06 PM, Roman  wrote:

> Hello.
> Where can I read about supported webcams for Fedora9?
>
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Re: End of Saga WHY I WANT TO STOP USING FEDORA!!!

[Mikkel L. Ellertson]

Mark Haney wrote:
> Mikkel L. Ellertson wrote:
> 
>> I am not following your argument. How does having dependencies
>> result in a bigger binary? I would think it would result in just the
>> opposite - small binaries that link with other programs/libraries
>> like building blocks. Other programs can share some of the same
>> blocks, so you do not have to duplicate them in more then one binary.
> 
> My point is that including virtually every compile option in every
> package means the system links to many more libraries than are probably
> needed.  I know some compromise for 'desktop use' has to be made and I
> understand that.  But including dependencies for every media player out
> there seems silly.  Does that make a little more sense with where my
> train of thought is going?  If not, don't worry, my wife doesn't
> understand me either.
> 
I have not seen that. What I have seen is several media players
having the same dependencies, so you only have to drag them in when
you install the first medial player. On the other hand, I have seen
GUIs that require more then one CLI media player - usually because
the GUI will work as the front end for more then one CLI media
player. I am not sure how to handle installing the GUI first, but
installing it after the CLI program(s) should let it install without
requiring the other ones. I think it can be built that way. (Like
you can have Sendmail or Postfix installed, and fill the requirement
for a MTA.
> 
>> You also have GUI programs that are front ends to CLI programs. So
>> you naturally need the program(s) that they are front ends for when
>> you are installing the GUI.
>>
>> If anything, Linux is moving away from the collection of small
>> programs that preform one function well, and can be linked to other
>> programs to perform a specific task...
> 
> Personally I like the 'one task and do it well' philosophy.  We've seen
> the fun that is M$ and it's joke of an OS in Vista.  trying to be
> everything to everybody and doing none of those things particularly
> well.  But that is for another thread, methinks.
> 
I do as well. But that may be because I started with the CLI and I
am still comfortable with it. Shell scripts are fun!

Mikkel
-- 

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for thou art crunchy and taste good with Ketchup!



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Re: Fedora9 supported webcam list

[Reuben D. Budiardja]

On Tuesday 10 February 2009 6:35:59 am Tom Horsley wrote:
> On Tue, 10 Feb 2009 11:06:56 +0600
>
> Roman wrote:
> > Where can I read about supported webcams for Fedora9?
>
> In general, nowhere :-). But if the webcam says it supports
> the new UVC (USB video class) standard, the odds are good
> that it will work with the uvc driver now included as
> part of fedora (sometimes you can't find anything in the
> docs that mention UVC specifically, but it will say something
> about Mac OS-X support, and I believe OS-X uses UVC for
> webcams).

For older webcam that doesn't support UVC, you may be lucky and can get the 
driver here:
http://mxhaard.free.fr/spca5xx.html

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Dept. Physics and Astronomy
University of Tennessee, Knoxville, TN

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Re: samba

[Reuben D. Budiardja]

On Tuesday 10 February 2009 10:58:44 am GMS S wrote:
> Hi,
> I installed samba.
> rpm -q samba
> samba-3.2.8-0.26.fc10.i386
>
> How can I configure it and use it?
> Can anyone tell?

Try "system-config-samba". You may have to install that package if you don't 
already have it. It will provide you with basic configuration GUI, and that's 
probably sufficient if you don't do anything fancy.

Then you have to turn on the service:
/sbin/service smb start

and make sure it's started automatically after reboot (run as root): 
chkconfig smb on

RDB
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Re: rpmbuild question - follow on to gcc issues

[James Kosin]

homb...@tips-q.com wrote:
>> What is the Fedora way of dealing with this situation?
>>
> Once you modify a package your warranty is null and void ;-)
> 

Actually, there is NO WARRANTY of any sort.




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Re: Never-ending boot progress

[Aldo Foot]

On Tue, Feb 10, 2009 at 2:37 AM, Tim Clarke  wrote:

> Interestingly there is no /etc/inittab !
> Am placing a good one and testing...

Recently I had similar issues with missing files after an install. It
boiled down
to a corrupt image download. The tip is to test the media when the install asks
for a media check. Try that and if you find errors get yourself another
download.

>> have you tried ro have full boot verbose report removing
>> related option??

Removing the rhgb and the quiet option will show verbose info on the screen
at boot time.
The rhgb option is what makes the white and blue bars appear at boot time.

~af

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Re: acer aspire one - gnome rsolution problem :-(

[Craig White]

On Tue, 2009-02-10 at 08:40 +0200, Gregory Machin wrote:
> Hi
> 
> I'm batteling to get the correct display resolution in gnome for my
> acer aspire one. In the display settings "system > prefrences >
> hardware > screen resolution " the highest option I get is 1024 x 600.
> 
> system-config-display allow me to configure to 1024 x 768 which is the
> correct max but these setting don't take effect. I assume gnome
> nolonger uses /etc/X11/xorg.conf for its settings as thishas no effect
> at all.
> 
> Over to the gnome gurus please help .. having apps that disapear off
> the screen just no nice ...

1024x600 is the max (actual) but if you create an xorg.conf file, you
could set the 'virtual' display to pretty much any size you wish.

I don't use gnome so I am not knowledgeable about their toolsets but in
KDE, systemsettings works fairly well and kandrtray somewhat resets the
settings each login (save for the bottom panel which seems to open 640
pixels wide).

Craig

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Re: rpmbuild question - follow on to gcc issues

[homburg]

On Tue, 10 Feb 2009 10:52:14 -0500
Steve  wrote:
> the src rpm contains a number of patches
> and one of the patches is to the file I want to modify.
> Now when I rpmbuild, the patching fails because the
> source file it is trying to patch doesn't look the same.
> 
> What is the Fedora way of dealing with this situation?
> 
Once you modify a package your warranty is null and void ;-)

Edit the patch and make a note in the spec file. 

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http://www.tips-Q.com

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Re: WHY I WANT TO STOP USING FEDORA!!!

[Serguei Miridonov]

On Tuesday 10 February 2009, Arthur Pemberton wrote:
> On Tue, Feb 10, 2009 at 2:32 AM, Serguei Miridonov 
 wrote:
> > On Monday 09 February 2009, Arthur Pemberton wrote:
> >> On Mon, Feb 9, 2009 at 11:03 PM, Mike Chalmers
> >
> >  wrote:
> >> >> Nothing else makes as much sense to me in the open source
> >> >> world that isn't a 'paid' or 'enterprise' edition.
> >> >
> >> > Mark we are definitely on the same page. Open source works
> >> > together, so it is very understandable why a rolling release
> >> > is good, imo.
> >>
> >> I hope you  at least understand why a rolling release is
> >> technically difficult, especially in a distro like Fedora where
> >> things can change radically from one release to another.
> >
> > Probably majority of users would not complain about radical
> > changes in these frequent upgrades IF new releases don't break
> > something that people use and rely on every day. With Fedora it
> > happens every release.
>
> A symptom of radical change with limited testing (there only so
> many testers)

When I wrote about breaking something, I also mean removing features 
which people used in previous versions.


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Re: Trying to build tightvnc for FC10 from FC11 src.rpm

[Robert Moskowitz]

Mike Cloaked wrote:


Robert Moskowitz wrote:
  
Well I got the src.rpm for fc11, and after running rpmbuild, I found a 
number of dependencies I needed.  I installed those and tried again and 
not too supprisingly the rebuild failed.






This is interesting - I know that there is a plan that is not far from
complete to have tightvnc in F11 for release. It would be very nice to have
this built for F10 also and made available through the normal updates
system. I guess that test building for f10 is part of that process?
  


I use TightVNC on my Centos systems, and particularly with my HIP 
testing (using the HIPL code).  So I since my plans for HIP include FC10 
(to get the 2.6.27 kernel with the IPsec BEET patches), I need TightVNC. 
 What better way than instead of taking the old 1.3.9 code from RHEL5, 
to use the new 1.5.0 from the FC11 development.


So I am trying to do the retrofit.  Any one more skilled than me (and 
there are LOTS that fit that catagory), I would welcome the help.  And 
maybe to get TightVNC as a standard part of FC10.




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Re: Trying to build tightvnc for FC10 from FC11 src.rpm

[Mike Cloaked]

Robert Moskowitz wrote:
> 
> Well I got the src.rpm for fc11, and after running rpmbuild, I found a 
> number of dependencies I needed.  I installed those and tried again and 
> not too supprisingly the rebuild failed.
> 
> 

This is interesting - I know that there is a plan that is not far from
complete to have tightvnc in F11 for release. It would be very nice to have
this built for F10 also and made available through the normal updates
system. I guess that test building for f10 is part of that process?
-- 
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Sent from the Fedora List mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

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Re: samba

[Antonio M]

2009/2/10 GMS S :
> Hi,
> I installed samba.
> rpm -q samba
> samba-3.2.8-0.26.fc10.i386
>
> How can I configure it and use it?
> Can anyone tell?
>
>
>
>
>
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>
http://www.samba.org/samba/docs/Samba-HOWTO-Collection.pdf

I am just reading this document. Very long but useful as well


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Re: Error Message trying to ./configure

[Ralf Corsepius]

Jim wrote:

Joachim Backes wrote:

Michael Schwendt wrote:

On Tue, 10 Feb 2009 08:41:42 -0200, Martín wrote:



/usr/include/uuid.h# Belongs to uuid-devel

/usr/include/uuid/uuid.h  # Belongs to e2fsprogs-devel ,  I installed 
e2fsprogs-devel and that satisfied the dependency, at

  /usr/include/uuid/uuid.h.

So from my point of view his script should be pointing to 
/usr/include/uuid.h.

Is that not correct ?

Depends on what they are linking against.

/usr/include/uuid.h
is the API for
/usr/lib/libossp-uuid.so

while
/usr/include/uuid/uuid.h
is part of  API for some libraries from e2fsprogs-devel

Ralf





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Re: End of Saga WHY I WANT TO STOP USING FEDORA!!!

[Mark Haney]

Mikkel L. Ellertson wrote:

> I am not following your argument. How does having dependencies
> result in a bigger binary? I would think it would result in just the
> opposite - small binaries that link with other programs/libraries
> like building blocks. Other programs can share some of the same
> blocks, so you do not have to duplicate them in more then one binary.

My point is that including virtually every compile option in every
package means the system links to many more libraries than are probably
needed.  I know some compromise for 'desktop use' has to be made and I
understand that.  But including dependencies for every media player out
there seems silly.  Does that make a little more sense with where my
train of thought is going?  If not, don't worry, my wife doesn't
understand me either.


> 
> You also have GUI programs that are front ends to CLI programs. So
> you naturally need the program(s) that they are front ends for when
> you are installing the GUI.
> 
> If anything, Linux is moving away from the collection of small
> programs that preform one function well, and can be linked to other
> programs to perform a specific task...

Personally I like the 'one task and do it well' philosophy.  We've seen
the fun that is M$ and it's joke of an OS in Vista.  trying to be
everything to everybody and doing none of those things particularly
well.  But that is for another thread, methinks.

> 
> Mikkel
> 


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samba

[GMS S]

Hi,
I installed samba.
rpm -q samba
samba-3.2.8-0.26.fc10.i386

How can I configure it and use it?
Can anyone tell?






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rpmbuild question - follow on to gcc issues

[Steve]

I downloaded a src rpm, built it using rpmbuild and the spec file and ran it. 
So far, so good. Now I want to modify the source to add some debugging 
statements. The problem is that the src rpm contains a number of patches and 
one of the patches is to the file I want to modify. Now when I rpmbuild, the 
patching fails because the source file it is trying to patch doesn't look the 
same.

What is the Fedora way of dealing with this situation?

Let me know if this needs to be moved to the devel list.

Thanks,
Steve.

 

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Re: End of Saga WHY I WANT TO STOP USING FEDORA!!!

[Mikkel L. Ellertson]

Mark Haney wrote:
> 
> Bollocks.  I am quite aware of the differences between the two distros.
>  Do not insult my intelligence.  The point I'm making is that some
> dependencies seem unnecessary.  (Again, I'm unable to come up with a
> specific example at the moment, since I'm at work, but I'm sure there
> will be a post shortly that says 'why do I need this to install this?')
> 
> Adding all those dozens upon dozens of dependencies in just result in
> bloated binaries and lowered performance because of that.  Surely, NOT
> including the 'kitchensink' dependency will cut down on the size of
> binaries.  Not to mention lowering the bloat on a system.
> 
I am not following your argument. How does having dependencies
result in a bigger binary? I would think it would result in just the
opposite - small binaries that link with other programs/libraries
like building blocks. Other programs can share some of the same
blocks, so you do not have to duplicate them in more then one binary.

You also have GUI programs that are front ends to CLI programs. So
you naturally need the program(s) that they are front ends for when
you are installing the GUI.

If anything, Linux is moving away from the collection of small
programs that preform one function well, and can be linked to other
programs to perform a specific task...

Mikkel
-- 

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for thou art crunchy and taste good with Ketchup!



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Re: End of Saga WHY I WANT TO STOP USING FEDORA!!!

[Mark Haney]

Jonathan Underwood wrote:

> Because gentoo builds from source on your local machine, building in
> support for componenets as specified by your USE flags, whereas Fedora
> is a binary distribution, and dependencies are generated during the
> building of those binaries.
> 
> Now, why don't my apples taste like oranges?
> 
> Jonathan.
> 

Bollocks.  I am quite aware of the differences between the two distros.
 Do not insult my intelligence.  The point I'm making is that some
dependencies seem unnecessary.  (Again, I'm unable to come up with a
specific example at the moment, since I'm at work, but I'm sure there
will be a post shortly that says 'why do I need this to install this?')

Adding all those dozens upon dozens of dependencies in just result in
bloated binaries and lowered performance because of that.  Surely, NOT
including the 'kitchensink' dependency will cut down on the size of
binaries.  Not to mention lowering the bloat on a system.



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Re: Error Message trying to ./configure

[Jim]

Joachim Backes wrote:

Michael Schwendt wrote:

On Tue, 10 Feb 2009 08:41:42 -0200, Martín wrote:


2009/2/9 jim:

jim wrote:

FC10/KDE
Trying to compile a Linux Game and I get this error;

checking for sdl-config... /usr/bin/sdl-config
checking for SDL - version >= 1.2.0... yes
checking for IMG_Load in -lSDL_image... no
configure: error: *** SDL_image not found!

SDL_image-1.2.6-6.fc9.i386.rpm is installed.


I also ran into another error mesage;

checking uuid/uuid.h usability... no
checking uuid/uuid.h presence... no
checking for uuid/uuid.h... no
configure: error: *** uuid headers not found!

The uuid.h is located at /usr/include/uuid.h ,
What command would use to direct to that PATH, in fact where is the 
compile

looking for  the  uuid.h ?

Uh?

[mar...@endor ~]$ locate uuid.h
/usr/include/uuid/uuid.h
[mar...@endor ~]$ rpm -qf /usr/include/uuid/uuid.h
e2fsprogs-devel-1.41.3-2.fc9.x86_64


Use "repoquery" or "yum" for searching.

There's also pkg "uuid" and "uuid-devel".

Now, obviously, they cannot use the same path, because they would
conflict then.

Perhaps jim's program excepts the uuid api from e2fsprogs-devel



yum whatprovides /usr/include/uuid.h
Loaded plugins: fastestmirror, refresh-packagekit
Loading mirror speeds from cached hostfile
 * fedora: ftp.univie.ac.at
 * rpmfusion-free-updates: ftp.nb.lug.ro
 * rpmfusion-nonfree-updates: ftp.nb.lug.ro
 * rpmfusion-free: ftp.nb.lug.ro
 * rpmfusion-nonfree: ftp.nb.lug.ro
 * updates: gd.tuwien.ac.at
Importing additional filelist information
uuid-devel-1.6.1-3.fc9.i386 : Development support for Universally Unique
: Identifier library
Repo: fedora
Matched from:
Filename: /usr/include/uuid.h



Tkis must be a bug on the author of "Lordsawar"

/usr/include/uuid.h# Belongs to uuid-devel

/usr/include/uuid/uuid.h  # Belongs to e2fsprogs-devel ,  I installed 
e2fsprogs-devel and that satisfied the dependency, at

  /usr/include/uuid/uuid.h.

So from my point of view his script should be pointing to 
/usr/include/uuid.h.

Is that not correct ?

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Re: mailscanner

[Roger Grosswiler]

> Hi all
>
> Have you had experience about mailscanne?
>
> I have problem to big delay to receive mail
>
> Thank you
>
> Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
>
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is your mailserver greylisting?

Roger

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Re: Red Hat g++ packaging question

[Rahul Sundaram]

Peter J. Stieber wrote:

4.3.2 -> 4.3.3 from the GCC web site is a "regression fixes and docs 
only" only.  It is not a new release.  This has happened in prior Fedora 
releases.  This is one of the things I like about Fedora.


Err, regardless of the content, it *is* a new release and it doesn't 
differ much from what is already in Fedora 10. Think, backports.


Now if I have to wait for Fedora 11 to get GCC 4.4.x the process will 
start all over again, because this is a new release of GCC and it will 
take a few minor versions updates before they are worked out.  With your 
"Build tools are usually not updated post-release" argument there may 
not be a bug fixed / stable version of GCC for some time...  Unless 
4.3.x-compat is released in Fedora 11.


It quite often is. Also note that development snapshots or RC's of GCC 
are introduced early in the development cycle and the entire 
distribution is rebuild with it to shake about bugs in the distribution 
as well as GCC.



According to Jakub it does...


Read my immediate followup on this mail. I read your question wrong.

Rahul

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Trying to build tightvnc for FC10 from FC11 src.rpm

[Robert Moskowitz]

Well I got the src.rpm for fc11, and after running rpmbuild, I found a 
number of dependencies I needed.  I installed those and tried again and 
not too supprisingly the rebuild failed.


First it is telling me that both user and group mockbuild do not exist 
and it is using root.


Is this a problem?  I am running from userid:  me


After these warnings, I get an Executing(%prep) and a number of info 
messages, then after a line about 'patching file configure.ac' I get:


Hunk #1 FAILED at 29.
Hunk #2 succeeded at 53 (offset 2 lines).
Hunk #3 succeeded at 1213 (offset 10 lines).
Hunk #4 FAILED at 1892.
2 out of 4 hunks FAILED -- saving rejects to file configure.ac.rej
patching file hw/Makefile.am
Hunk #1 FAILED at 33.
1 out of 1 hunks FAILED -- saving rejects to file hw/Makefile.am.rej
patching file mi/miinitext.c
Hunk #1 FAILED at 272.
Hunk #2 FAILED at 478.
2 out of 2 hunks FAILED -- saving rejects to file mi/miinitext.c.rej
error: Bad exit status from /var/tmp/rpm-tmp.lr6xIj (%prep)

So what do I do to get this working?

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Re: Red Hat g++ packaging question

[Peter J. Stieber]

PS = Pete Stieber
PS>> I looked at the Fedora 10 page plans, but I didn't see
PS>> any updating plans.  Is there any way to see if Fedora
PS>> 10 is planning a GCC 4.3.3 update?

RS = Rahul Sundaram

RS> Unlikely. Build tools are usually not updated post-release.

4.3.2 -> 4.3.3 from the GCC web site is a "regression fixes and docs 
only" only.  It is not a new release.  This has happened in prior Fedora 
releases.  This is one of the things I like about Fedora.


Now if I have to wait for Fedora 11 to get GCC 4.4.x the process will 
start all over again, because this is a new release of GCC and it will 
take a few minor versions updates before they are worked out.  With your 
"Build tools are usually not updated post-release" argument there may 
not be a bug fixed / stable version of GCC for some time...  Unless 
4.3.x-compat is released in Fedora 11.


PS>> Does the Red Hat version of GCC recompile a source module if it
PS>> encounters an error on the first try?

RS> No, GCC behaviour doesn't change like that.

According to Jakub it does...


Yes, if it encounters an internal compiler error, the gcc/g++ compiler 
driver retries 3 times to determine if a bug is reproduceable or not. 
If not, the most likely culprit is faulty hw, if yes, it prepares 
preprocessed source together with options used and tells you to file a 
bug with that data.



And this is what I experienced with my random errors.

I just got another random error in last night's build.  This one looks 
like corrupt assembly code.


/tmp/ccmigTCg.s: Assembler messages:
/tmp/ccmigTCg.s:9718: Error: unknown pseudo-op: 
`.size^A_znkst6vectoripk22tccommunicationsdevicesais2_ee8max_sizeev'


Maybe this is some type of disk problem.

Pete

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Re: Firewire HDD causes hard lockups

[Todd Denniston]

William M. Quarles wrote, On 02/09/2009 07:57 PM:

Hey all,

I have a Futura Mobile Storage Solution 3.5" External IDE HDD Enclosure 
with USB 2.0 and Firewire support. I'm having problems using it with my 
Firewire connection. I was thinking about submitting a report to 
Bugzilla, but wanted to get some feedback first.




The drive is formatted with NTFS, as it was originally inside a Windows 
XP Pro computer, and I am now using it to back up my files on my laptop 
while running Windows XP Pro. I tried repartitioning and reformatting in 
Windows XP, but Fedora 10 installation complained again and the computer 
locked up hard sometime later again.


Any thoughts?



There should probably still be a BZ if this fixes it, and I would have 
expected the same problem using the USB connection, i.e., mention in the bug 
that same drive with USB works fine, either they should both break or both work.


partition the drive with a Linux partitioner.
format the partition NTFS using XP Pro as before, but be VERY careful to make 
the format program use the PARTITION as opposed to the WHOLE DRIVE, which IIRC 
 MS defaults to whole drive.


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Re: WHY I WANT TO STOP USING FEDORA!!!

[Rahul Sundaram]

Timothy Murphy wrote:

Arthur Pemberton wrote:


I hope you  at least understand why a rolling release is technically
difficult, especially in a distro like Fedora where things can change
radically from one release to another.


I find it slightly illogical that Fedora has a fixed period for each release.
I can see that a new release might be needed 
if there has been a radical change,

but that may or may not happen every 6 months.


You are referring to a feature based release schedule while
Fedora is oriented towards a time based release schedule. Both are 
logical with their own set of advantages and disadvantages.


http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/TimeBased

Rahul

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Re: Never-ending boot progress

[Todd Denniston]

Tim Clarke wrote, On 02/10/2009 08:55 AM:

-Original Message-
From: fedora-list-boun...@redhat.com 
[mailto:fedora-list-boun...@redhat.com] On Behalf Of Tim Clarke

I've just put missing /etc/inittab and /etc/rc.d/rc.sysinit files into
place - no difference.

Then I've amended grub as you suggested: last line is 
"Switching to new
root and running init" Looks like this is the same clue as 
above ;-) The

init sequence is non-existent!

Tim Clarke


Dang - anyone have any idea how to repair this, please?

Tim Clarke


Original message:
Tim Clarke wrote, On 02/09/2009 11:31 AM:

Hi - can anyone help with an install issue pls?

On reboot after (several repeated!) seemingly good installs I just get
the progress bar at the bottom of the screen that slowly becomes fully
white. On pressing ESC i get four lines saying
reading logical volumes
found vol0...
found vol1...
2 volumes in group vol0 now active
but no disk activity! I've left it overnight but its just hung there.
Any additional diagnosis steps I can perform here?

Tim Clarke



So I take it that the summary of the problem is:
'I do an install and when I reboot the system it just keeps rebooting, because 
the _install_failed_ to install all the stuff init needs to get going.'


[A standard Red Hat\Fedora fault, since RH6, when anaconda blows a fuse.]

Suggestion 1, see if the anaconda log[1] shows anything interesting.

Suggestion 2, see if there are any anaconda bugs that look similar in the 
bugzilla.
Suggestion 2.5, if the anaconda log[1] shows any failures or other interesting 
things, and there are no similar open bugs, consider opening a BZ Bug against 
anaconda and inserting the log in the Bug, or if there is a similar one add 
your comments and log to it.


Suggestion 3, somewhere in this thread you mentioned 'a failure to load 
agpgart', so I suggest trying to install in text mode, and change to X mode 
after install.



[1] IIRC /root/anaconda.log or /var/log/anaconda.[something] of the installed 
system, or /var/log/[something, I think messages] of the install system while 
installing.



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Re: Can't find a package

[Sharpe, Sam J]

I did ;o)

> It could be /usr/bin/gstreamer-properties which is provided by the
> *gnome-media* package.

--
Sam

James Harrison wrote:

Yes thats the one!!

Can you tell me the package name?

Cheers,

James


*From:* "Sharpe, Sam J" 
*To:* "Community assistance, encouragement, and advice for using 
Fedora." 

*Sent:* Tuesday, February 10, 2009 9:31:39 AM
*Subject:* Re: Can't find a package

That is definitely /usr/bin/gstreamer-properties - the title of the 
window that comes up is "Multimedia Systems Selector"


Score one for me?

James Harrison wrote:
 > I am using Gnome
 >
 > This program had two tabs.
 >
 > Tab 1 - Configure Sound devices
 > Tab 2 - Configure Input video devices.
 >
 > James
 >
 > 
 > *From:* "Sharpe, Sam J" >
 > *To:* "Community assistance, encouragement, and advice for using 
Fedora." mailto:fedora-list@redhat.com>>

 > *Sent:* Tuesday, February 10, 2009 9:19:34 AM
 > *Subject:* Re: Can't find a package
 >
 > James Harrison wrote:
 >  > All,
 >  >
 >  > After I rebuilt my system I can't find a program that I was using 
before.

 >  >
 >  > It allowed me to set up my webcam and audio.
 >  >
 >  > It was call something like multimedia-selector???
 >  >
 >  > If someone knows the program I am talking about, can someone let 
me know

 >  > the name of it.
 >  >
 > It could be /usr/bin/gstreamer-properties which is provided by the
 > gnome-media package.
 >
 > But if you're not using Gnome I don't have a clue - can you give a
 > better description of what it allowed you to do with your webcam and 
audio?

 >
 > --
 > Sam
 >
 > -- fedora-list mailing list
 > fedora-list@redhat.com  
>

 > To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list
 > Guidelines: 
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines

 >

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Re: Can't find a package

[James Harrison]

Yes thats the one!!

Can you tell me the package name?

Cheers,

James





From: "Sharpe, Sam J" 
To: "Community assistance, encouragement, and advice for using Fedora." 

Sent: Tuesday, February 10, 2009 9:31:39 AM
Subject: Re: Can't find a package

That is definitely /usr/bin/gstreamer-properties - the title of the window that 
comes up is "Multimedia Systems Selector"

Score one for me?

James Harrison wrote:
> I am using Gnome
> 
> This program had two tabs.
> 
> Tab 1 - Configure Sound devices
> Tab 2 - Configure Input video devices.
> 
> James
> 
> 
> *From:* "Sharpe, Sam J" 
> *To:* "Community assistance, encouragement, and advice for using Fedora." 
> 
> *Sent:* Tuesday, February 10, 2009 9:19:34 AM
> *Subject:* Re: Can't find a package
> 
> James Harrison wrote:
>  > All,
>  >
>  > After I rebuilt my system I can't find a program that I was using before.
>  >
>  > It allowed me to set up my webcam and audio.
>  >
>  > It was call something like multimedia-selector???
>  >
>  > If someone knows the program I am talking about, can someone let me know
>  > the name of it.
>  >
> It could be /usr/bin/gstreamer-properties which is provided by the
> gnome-media package.
> 
> But if you're not using Gnome I don't have a clue - can you give a
> better description of what it allowed you to do with your webcam and audio?
> 
> --
> Sam
> 
> -- fedora-list mailing list
> fedora-list@redhat.com 
> To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list
> Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
> 

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Re: End of Saga WHY I WANT TO STOP USING FEDORA!!!

[Jonathan Underwood]

2009/2/10 Mark Haney :
> Oh?  And how come I can install the same set of software in Gentoo and
> not need an extra 50+MB of dependencies?  I wish I had an example at the
> moment, but I don't.  However, I'm sure one will pop up sooner or later.
>

Because gentoo builds from source on your local machine, building in
support for componenets as specified by your USE flags, whereas Fedora
is a binary distribution, and dependencies are generated during the
building of those binaries.

Now, why don't my apples taste like oranges?

Jonathan.

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Re: Can't find a package

[Sharpe, Sam J]

That is definitely /usr/bin/gstreamer-properties - the title of the 
window that comes up is "Multimedia Systems Selector"


Score one for me?

James Harrison wrote:

I am using Gnome

This program had two tabs.

Tab 1 - Configure Sound devices
Tab 2 - Configure Input video devices.

James


*From:* "Sharpe, Sam J" 
*To:* "Community assistance, encouragement, and advice for using 
Fedora." 

*Sent:* Tuesday, February 10, 2009 9:19:34 AM
*Subject:* Re: Can't find a package

James Harrison wrote:
 > All,
 >
 > After I rebuilt my system I can't find a program that I was using before.
 >
 > It allowed me to set up my webcam and audio.
 >
 > It was call something like multimedia-selector???
 >
 > If someone knows the program I am talking about, can someone let me know
 > the name of it.
 >
It could be /usr/bin/gstreamer-properties which is provided by the
gnome-media package.

But if you're not using Gnome I don't have a clue - can you give a
better description of what it allowed you to do with your webcam and audio?

--
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Re: WHY I WANT TO STOP USING FEDORA!!!

[Timothy Murphy]

Arthur Pemberton wrote:

> I hope you  at least understand why a rolling release is technically
> difficult, especially in a distro like Fedora where things can change
> radically from one release to another.

I find it slightly illogical that Fedora has a fixed period for each release.
I can see that a new release might be needed 
if there has been a radical change,
but that may or may not happen every 6 months.




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Re: Can't find a package

[James Harrison]

I am using Gnome

This program had two tabs. 

Tab 1 - Configure Sound devices
Tab 2 - Configure Input video devices.

James





From: "Sharpe, Sam J" 
To: "Community assistance, encouragement, and advice for using Fedora." 

Sent: Tuesday, February 10, 2009 9:19:34 AM
Subject: Re: Can't find a package

James Harrison wrote:
> All,
>
> After I rebuilt my system I can't find a program that I was using before.
>
> It allowed me to set up my webcam and audio.
>
> It was call something like multimedia-selector???
>
> If someone knows the program I am talking about, can someone let me know
> the name of it.
>
It could be /usr/bin/gstreamer-properties which is provided by the 
gnome-media package.

But if you're not using Gnome I don't have a clue - can you give a 
better description of what it allowed you to do with your webcam and audio?

--
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Re: WHY I WANT TO STOP USING FEDORA!!!

[Timothy Murphy]

Pedro Freire wrote:

> What use do you make of your Fedora system ?
> 
> For my laptop I like to have the newest releases, of course. Added
> functionality ? not always but sometimes. More good looking ? rarely
> 
> My server: I only change stuff when I have to!

Wouldn't it be easier in that case to run Centos on the server?




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Re: End of Saga WHY I WANT TO STOP USING FEDORA!!!

[Mark Haney]

Ralf Corsepius wrote:
> Mark Haney wrote:
>> Charles Crayne wrote:
>>> On Mon, 9 Feb 2009 19:04:16 -0800 (PST)
>>> Leslie Satenstein  wrote:
>>>
 With internet access the way it is, why not just
 do rolling updates?
>>> Sounds good, until the day when yum identifies 473 dependencies for the
>>> package you want to install.
>>>
>>
>> One of those other buggers I don't like about Fedora.  A ridiculous
>> number of dependencies that (to me, mind you) seem superfluous.
> You are in error. These deps aren't there for fun, but for technical
> necessity.
> 
> Ralf
> 

Oh?  And how come I can install the same set of software in Gentoo and
not need an extra 50+MB of dependencies?  I wish I had an example at the
moment, but I don't.  However, I'm sure one will pop up sooner or later.


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Re: Can't find a package

[Sharpe, Sam J]

James Harrison wrote:

All,

After I rebuilt my system I can't find a program that I was using before.

It allowed me to set up my webcam and audio.

It was call something like multimedia-selector???

If someone knows the program I am talking about, can someone let me know
the name of it.

It could be /usr/bin/gstreamer-properties which is provided by the 
gnome-media package.


But if you're not using Gnome I don't have a clue - can you give a 
better description of what it allowed you to do with your webcam and audio?


--
Sam

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Re: End of Saga WHY I WANT TO STOP USING FEDORA!!!

[Ralf Corsepius]

Mark Haney wrote:

Charles Crayne wrote:

On Mon, 9 Feb 2009 19:04:16 -0800 (PST)
Leslie Satenstein  wrote:


With internet access the way it is, why not just
do rolling updates?

Sounds good, until the day when yum identifies 473 dependencies for the
package you want to install.



One of those other buggers I don't like about Fedora.  A ridiculous
number of dependencies that (to me, mind you) seem superfluous.
You are in error. These deps aren't there for fun, but for technical 
necessity.


Ralf

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Re: End of Saga WHY I WANT TO STOP USING FEDORA!!!

[Mark Haney]

Charles Crayne wrote:
> On Mon, 9 Feb 2009 19:04:16 -0800 (PST)
> Leslie Satenstein  wrote:
> 
>> With internet access the way it is, why not just
>> do rolling updates?
> 
> Sounds good, until the day when yum identifies 473 dependencies for the
> package you want to install.
> 

One of those other buggers I don't like about Fedora.  A ridiculous
number of dependencies that (to me, mind you) seem superfluous.   But,
again, what's it like when a new release comes out?  It's 500+MB of
updates.  With rolling updates it's possible to scale that down, I think.


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Re: WHY I WANT TO STOP USING FEDORA!!!

[Mark Haney]

Wayne Feick wrote:

> 
> I have to say, this is why I switched *away* from gentoo. It seemed like
> a good idea at first, but I got tired of being surprised far too often
> by someone deciding to make changes that required my attention. A lot of
> the changes seemed to be of the class "wouldn't the piano.config look
> better over there?" and "let's invent a new way of doing something that
> works fine now".
> 
> If you're looking for a system that requires less of your time to manage
> than Fedora, I suspect you'll discover you've gone in the opposite
> direction with gentoo.

Not true.  I have less to manage with Gentoo.  It's not as
user-unfriendly as you make it out to be.  It might have been at first,
as they were getting their feet wet, so to speak, but I've had nothing
but good experiences with Gentoo for 3+ years.  Honestly, I wouldn't go
back to Fedora on this laptop of mine for anything.  In fact, I got so
fed up with Network Manager on my daughter's new laptop, that I
installed Gentoo on it and got rid of Fedora just so I wouldn't have to
deal with that pile of crap NM.

> 
> With virtualization support as good as it is these days, I'm leaning
> towards installing each successive release in a new VM and migrating my
> various services over to it before decommissioning the previous VM. In
> theory, anyway. I haven't tried it in practice yet.
> 

Actually, this works pretty well. I have done this on a couple of
servers of mine and I've had little to no trouble with the migration. I
will say Fedora's VM support is as good as it gets I think.


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Can't find a package

[James Harrison]

All,

After I rebuilt my system I can't find a program that I was using before. 

It allowed me to set up my webcam and audio.

It was call something like multimedia-selector???

If someone knows the program I am talking about, can someone let me know the 
name of it.

Thanks,

James Harrison



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Re: FreeCAD-0.7.1779 and Fedora10

[Kevin Kofler]

Joachim Backes wrote:
> I tried this already, but did not help. The configure script seems to be
> rather buggy. Combing through the FreeCAD forums, I saw that there are
> similar issues concerning UBUNTU platforms, especially for those users
> who have installed qt3 and qt4 in parallel (which i have too).

Try:
--with-qt4-dir=/usr --with-qt4-bin=/usr/lib/qt4/bin
or:
--with-qt4-dir=/usr/lib/qt4 --with-qt4-include=/usr/include 
--with-qt4-lib=/usr/lib
(I looked at their acinclude.m4 and those are the switches they expect.)

On lib64 platforms, you'd want:
--with-qt4-dir=/usr --with-qt4-bin=/usr/lib64/qt4/bin --with-qt4-lib=/usr/lib64
or:
--with-qt4-dir=/usr/lib64/qt4 --with-qt4-include=/usr/include 
--with-qt4-lib=/usr/lib64

If you package it as an RPM, in the specfile, please use:
--with-qt4-dir=%{_prefix} --with-qt4-bin=%{_qt4_bindir} 
--with-qt4-include=%{_qt4_headerdir} --with-qt4-lib=%{_qt4_libdir}
or:
--with-qt4-dir=%{_qt4_prefix} --with-qt4-bin=%{_qt4_bindir} 
--with-qt4-include=%{_qt4_headerdir} --with-qt4-lib=%{_qt4_libdir}

(I'm not sure where exactly the qt4-dir is used other than as a default for
the other 3 settings, so try both /usr and /usr/lib/qt4 for that one.)

But the configure script sucks for not figuring it out automatically. If
they used CMake, it'd just work. (They wouldn't have to write their own
broken Qt 4 detection because CMake already includes a working one.) Death
to the autotools!

Kevin Kofler

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