Re: DVD burning issue
On 9/27/2009 1:01 PM, Les wrote: On Sat, 2009-09-26 at 22:12 +0200, mo wrote: On Fri, 2009-09-25 at 17:09 -0400, David Boles wrote: Isn't CD functionality supposed to be included in DVD functionality? I thought that DVD is sort of backward compatible with CD. By the way, I have also experienced this Burning issue. Ok, I missed the post asking why I was trying to burn the live-cd ISO. I didn't see that in the name... Therefore I didn't know it was an issue. Meanwhile I downloaded another image and finally found a bugzilla which said the problem was related to checksum generation for the image. I turned off the checksum and was successful in writting the DVD image, but the system I wanted to check would not boot from its DVD, due to a bios restriction. I then came back to my system and attempted to burn a cdrom, with no success. Then I added K3b to my system and used it to burn the cdrom, and succeeded. It appears that brasero has some fundamental problems, and the error #12 was returned in all cases of trying to burn the image, and the image would not work. However by turning off the checksum plugin of brasero, I was able to get a dvd and by loading and running k3b I was able to get a CD, so I now have both, and a lot of junk disks which brasero never finalized, which I have tossed out. I'm a dim bulb when it comes to these cd and dvd formats, so I will look up the differences. But I do realize that the raw form of the iso image must include the disk structure, so it would be unlikely to work. So now the 'fun' begins? :-) As I said - I have seen several people say that writing CD iso(s) to DVD disk(s) works. When I first say that I tried several times, to test this only, but I was not ever been able to do that successfully. And, to me, it just seems as if it should not work and a waste of my time. BTW - A Fedora 12 Live-DVD was talked about sometime ago. It was supposed to allow room for both the GNOME and KDE desktops. I did not see the resulting final decision. As many threads do it meandered OT and I lost interest in the OT. :-) -- David signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: yum-presto not on by default
On 9/25/2009 1:00 PM, Adam Williamson wrote: On Fri, 2009-09-25 at 12:43 -0400, David Boles wrote: 'lurker mode off' Comment from a 'lurker' You developers and all do a fine job with this. *But* you all seem to have the same wrong idea about *most* regular Linux users. At least the ones that I see on the help lists. *Almost none of them read that darn DOCs.* Nor do they read the release Notes. Nor do they read the FAQ's. Nor do they read they Known Problems. That's, um, pretty much what I was saying. Really? They don't read the instructions and hints *before* they destroy their working systems with an update? Or with a release upgrade? Really? Not the Newbies? Not the 'I think that I am an Expert' people? Not the 'I have much Linux experience' people? Really? Sure. Just follow the questions asked when something well written about pops up as a *surprise*. sigh I know this. It is, however, fair to point out that you're using an inherently skewed sample - the ones that I see on the help lists'. All other things being equal, the people who bother to read the documentation naturally show up far less often on help lists. =) Agreed. So how do you get those 'others' to read the instructions? Linux used to basically require that you do that. Things had to be found in the system and then configured by hand. In the rush to make things auto-magic, which is not a bad thing IMO, when something does not 'just work' users are lost. They seem to have forgotten how to read. Or perhaps comprehend what they read. And those users will always be Linux's bane. -- David signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
Re: DVD burning issue
On 9/25/2009 1:57 PM, Les wrote: Hi, everyone, I am having difficulty burning an ISO to try F11 on another computer. I want to burn the live iso image to a dvd. I have tried this several times and get a really stupid error. It appears the whole disk is created, and the finished message appears, BUT then the software attempts to create the checksum and things go badly. I have tried this both as my user and superuser, with the same issues. It appears that the cd/dvd library opens the disk, burns the image, then attempts to reopen it exclusively as the raw device for the checksum creation without dismounting it so the remount is denied. But maybe I am wrong. Is anyone else having this kind of problem? And how can this happen as superuser? Are there any known work-arounds? I couldn't find a recent version of this problem when I looked yesterday. 8 snip 8 First: I just have to ask this. Why are you trying to burn a Live-CD ISO note the CD part of the name to a DVD disk? I have seen some users claim this to work but I have never, myself, succeeded in doing this. -- David signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: Hatred of Fedora 11 turned to glee
On 9/24/2009 6:59 PM, Craig White wrote: On Thu, 2009-09-24 at 15:32 -0700, jdow wrote: Not only have my problems instantly disappeared, but I've learned two new things about Fedora: : PulseAudio has GUI options for everything : Fedora development team kicks arse If it was THAT good the preferences GUI would not have crashed in the first place, eh? release early and often I think is the operative concept anyway. And if that doesn't provide make you feel any better, how many known bugs did Vista ship with? Mac OS X 10.5 ? It doesn't get better if you pay for the software, they will still commit a release with known bugs and fix it later in the updates. Why should Fedora have to do it differently? Some bugs are with certain hardware. How could anyone expect any developer to be able to test a package on every piece of hardware? And in just how many different combinations of those pieces? Nothing would ever be released. -- David signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: F10 Update errors
On 9/8/2009 3:42 AM, Michael Schwendt wrote: On Mon, 07 Sep 2009 15:57:14 -0400, vincent wrote: The second set of errors is the same, the main yum process is trying to access an empty list. Maybe your rpm db is corrupted. Try running rpm --rebuilddb and when it completes try the yum command again. Run yum-complete-transaction. Run package-cleanup --problems No guarantees, but these might help you get closer to diagnosing the problem. rpm --rebuiltdb did not run Type mistake, see quote at the top. Run rpm -vv --rebuilddb as root and let it complete. Ignore the output. ;) -vv means 'be very verbose' with the display If you are just going to Ignore the output. ;) then why put '-vv' in the CLI? -- David signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: Thunderbird config date non-compat.-
On 9/6/2009 4:23 AM, Bob Goodwin wrote: I've replaced F-10 on this computer with F-11 using the Omega live cd and so far everything seems perfect for the stuff that I use. One of the easiest Linux installs yet! And a lot of bandwidth was saved in doing the updates! That's an important factor with the limited bandwidth usage allocated by my ISP. The version of Thunderbird provided however is not compatible with the config date add-on which I want in order to display 24 hour local times for both the sender and myself. The patch is not available for this version. What to do? It appears that I need to replace with version 2.-something. Is there something I am missing here, am I unique in needing 24 hour time displayed? [b...@box9 ~]$ yum whatprovides */thunderbird thunderbird-3.0-2.6.b3.fc11.i586 : Mozilla Thunderbird mail/newsgroup client Repo: installed Matched from: Filename: /usr/lib/thunderbird-3.0b3/thunderbird Filename: /usr/bin/thunderbird [b...@box9 ~]$ yum whatprovides */thunderbird-2.* Loaded plugins: presto, refresh-packagekit No Matches found Any suggestions? Bob This should be in plain text if I have the configuration set right. Nightly Tester Tools https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/thunderbird/addon/6543 -- David signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: Thunderbird config date non-compat.-
On 9/6/2009 7:12 AM, Frank Murphy (Frankly3D) wrote: --snip-- Yes, I've been using F10 for a while and the 2.x t-bird was quite satisfactory. I don't see any advantage to this version yet? I gzipped the file but it still wont fly! Thunderbird could not install the file at file:///home/bobg/Download/configdate-0.6.1.-tb-modified.xpi because: Not a valid install package zip the files under configdate-0.6.1-tb.xpi_FILES don't include the folder itself. -207 I have hungry horses standing at the gate waiting for breakfast. I think I need a break too, been at this since four. Thanks much for your help. Will pursue it further ... Bob No problem. You guys are making this hard. Don't 'unzip' the package. 'open' it with the default archive tool, edit the install.rdf file (open it with a test editor, when you 'save' the edited install.rdf you will be prompted to (I forget which it is) add or replace the edited file *in* the package. Install the edited .xpi package in Thunderbird. -- David signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: Thunderbird config date non-compat.-
On 9/6/2009 7:47 AM, Frank Murphy (Frankly3D) wrote: On 06/09/09 12:31, David Boles wrote: --snip-- You guys are making this hard. Don't 'unzip' the package. 'open' it with the default archive tool, edit the install.rdf file (open it with a test editor, when you 'save' the edited install.rdf you will be prompted to (I forget which it is) add or replace the edited file *in* the package. Install the edited .xpi package in Thunderbird. Thanks David. Indeed less work You're welcome. My pleasure. -- David signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: Custom installation of Fedora
On 8/23/2009 7:28 PM, Roger wrote: On 08/23/2009 06:50 PM, Anne Wilson wrote: On Sunday 23 August 2009 00:13:28 Markus Kesaromous wrote: During fedora install, if the user selects a customized install rather than the default, the user has to manually click on each and every app in the selected group. This is horribly tedious. In the old RH releases, you could just click on Everything button, and ALL of the rpms on the DVD would get installed. Is it too much to ask to add the Install Everything button for Fedora It was explained long ago that installing everything would throw up some serious conflicts/problems that would stop many thing working correctly. Anne On the contrary, I enjoy going through all the options and selecting only the ones I need. Why would you want to select all the languages and other 'guff-stuff' that would probably never be used, it's just clutter. One of the beauties of Linux is that you get to install a minimalist system. Yum update is then very fast. You then yum install tools as needed. I wouldn't have it any other way. Roger I think that the OP meant 'the whole DVD' when he said everything. And not selecting anything by looking at the whole DVD. It might also be pointed out that 'everything' on the DVD is not even half of the real everything available. :-) -- David signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: Thunderbird does not shutdown properly in F11?
On 8/22/2009 5:47 AM, Anne Wilson wrote: On Saturday 22 August 2009 02:52:37 David Boles wrote: Ya know. That is odd. From Thunderbird I pulled up 'the' page and, never looking, sent it. Sorry. Same plugin from the same person. https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/thunderbird/addon/6543 Yup - there is something odd there. At one point I checked for extensions from Thunderbird, and found that it directed me to Firefox extensions. You wouldn't expect a mistake like that. I have seen this before but not often. If you look 'inside' this extension, either one, it is a 'fits all' that works on FF, TB, others. They are the same package. -- David signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: Thunderbird does not shutdown properly in F11?
On 8/21/2009 1:22 PM, Kevin J. Cummings wrote: On 08/21/2009 07:30 AM, mike cloaked wrote: Ed Greshko wrote: You can't be running TB 3.0b3 with lightning and enigmail, right? I don't think those plugins work in that version...at least I wasn't able to install them...with any of the 3.0 betas. ... [show rest of quote] When I originally installed F11 I then also installed the two additional packages from the Fedora updates via yum - since then I have just updated as normal and the packages remain in place. Lightning is installed with: yum install thunderbird-lightning which is in updates and enigmail via: yum install thunderbird-enigmail and this is in rpmfusion I know that the latter is not strictly directly supported by Fedora - but that was why I asked the question - if others are seeing this issue but who have not installed the latter then this implies there is a problem with thunderbird itself but I don't know the answer to this yet? Mike, I just ran a short test, and thunderbird shuts down cleanly for me (F11.x86_64). And, yes, I am up-to-date with thunderbird (3.0b3) and running both lightning and enigmail (which were both just re-released to work with 3.0b3). I kinda wish more of the other plugins I had installed would work with the beta. Are you running any other plugins besides the 2 you mentioned? I kinda miss the quote collapse and header scroll extensions which aren't compatible with the beta release. Nightly Tester Tools 2.0.2 https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/6543 will solve your extension problems. :-) -- David signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: Thunderbird does not shutdown properly in F11?
On 8/21/2009 4:31 PM, Kevin J. Cummings wrote: On 08/21/2009 03:40 PM, David Boles wrote: On 8/21/2009 1:22 PM, Kevin J. Cummings wrote: I just ran a short test, and thunderbird shuts down cleanly for me (F11.x86_64). And, yes, I am up-to-date with thunderbird (3.0b3) and running both lightning and enigmail (which were both just re-released to work with 3.0b3). I kinda wish more of the other plugins I had installed would work with the beta. Are you running any other plugins besides the 2 you mentioned? I kinda miss the quote collapse and header scroll extensions which aren't compatible with the beta release. Nightly Tester Tools 2.0.2 https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/6543 will solve your extension problems. :-) Firefox extensions will solve my thunderbird problems? Please elaborate! Ya know. That is odd. From Thunderbird I pulled up 'the' page and, never looking, sent it. Sorry. Same plugin from the same person. https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/thunderbird/addon/6543 -- David signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: auto-updates
On 8/7/2009 10:11 AM, Tom Horsley wrote: On Fri, 7 Aug 2009 06:43:59 -0700 stan wrote: Me too. I just wish I could turn off packagekit before I ever login so it doesn't lock up the update process as soon as I do the first login before I can disable it :-). snip You can do that. It's easy. -- David signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: auto-updates
On 8/7/2009 11:07 AM, Richard Hughes wrote: 2009/8/7 Tom Horsley tom.hors...@att.net: Me too. I just wish I could turn off packagekit before I ever login so it doesn't lock up the update process as soon as I do the first login before I can disable it :-). There are many ways to disable it if you wish. Or even wait for the interface to be remotely sensible at all :-). I don't know why you put the :-) after the insult, it's still an insult. Several of us complained about the unitless progress bars in the very first version, but as far as I know you still can't tell if it is downloading a 1 meg package over the world's slowest connection or downloading a 1000 meg package at a good clip - the progress bars would look exactly the same in either case. I'm sorry, I must have missed your post on the mailing list with patches. Having installed and updated on lots of different linux distros for testing software at work, the debian/ubuntu synaptic GUI is as close to perfect as any I have seen, and the suse yast2 GUI was about the most annoying until packagekit came along and it takes the prize for being annoying. It is almost like they carefully researched how all other GUI software update tools worked and made sure they left out everything that could be considered remotely useful from all previous designs :-). No. They (the ones who did the actual work) wrote a framework of software, catering for the needs of these people http://www.packagekit.org/pk-profiles.html -- Then busy developers wrote code for free (often in the evenings after work or at weekends), and designed GUIs. I don't think anyone is under the delusion that the applications or stack is perfect right now. You (the one complaining) use the software for free, and get to file bugs (which we try to fix) for free. You also get to complain on public mailing lists without worrying about the consequences of doing so. You get the latest versions, or testing versions, all for free. I get to read your emails, and wonder why the hell I'm sitting here trying to make a difference. Richard For the rest of us Richard. The quiet majority. Not the 'bitchy' minority. -- David signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: Failed dependency check on update
On 8/6/2009 4:19 PM, Les wrote: Hi, everyone, I just got a failed dependency check: em8300-kmod-common = 0.17.3 is needed by package kmod-em8300-2.6.27.29-170.2.78.fc10.i686-0.17.3-1.fc10.2.i686 (rpmfusion-free-updates) : Success - empty transaction So I am guessing that the kmod stuff is in flux right now. I seem to remember seeing somewhere that it was changing. Is there a plan going forward that someone might let us all know? Someone here might know about this. But since this is a 3rd party package from rpmfusion you might get a faster answer from rpmfusion's mailing list. -- David signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: Are you being heard?
On 8/5/2009 11:18 PM, gil...@altern.org wrote: Marco wrote: On Thursday 06 August 2009 00:36:32 gil...@altern.org wrote: Make sure widgets are unlocked. Right-click on the folder view widget I don't see any view widget folder. As a matter of fact, the only way I can see anything on my desktop now is by selecting the folder view. Maybe this has to do with the fact that I previously went to the Folder View Setting -- where I expected to find a setting for my Desktop folder view, see hopw weird I am? -- selected Location, Specified a folder and I entered the path to the desktop folder to see if it would still show in a window. Now, I'm back to Show Desktop Folder, but the Desktop is selected in the Appearence settings -- why two different menus for this? -- I see nothing. After I tried *~ for filter to get rid of backup files, I've put it back to * . Listen, we could go on foreever with those kind of discussions. Give me a URL where I can learn about the basics of KDE4 in less than 5 pages, I'll read it and see if I can find my way out of this maze. This: http://docs.kde.org/development/en/kdebase-runtime/userguide/ won't do. In matters of documentation, I'm rather reaganian :) Are you blind? Did you not see the link in Anne's post? Welcome to KDE UserBase http://userbase.kde.org/ -- David signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: Are you being heard?
On 8/6/2009 12:39 AM, gil...@altern.org wrote: David Boles wrote: Are you blind? Did you not see the link in Anne's post? No, unfortunately, I'm not blind. I believe that's going to be it for me on the KDE matter. You like it? Use it! That's your choice of course. I use GNOME myself. Have for years. Anne is a long time friend, a member of the KDE group, and she has done much of the work on the KDE Userbase Wiki. Your original post sounded like you were looking for help. This *is* a help list. If you just wanted to run down KDE you should get a blog and not fill up the list. I am sure it would be appreciated. -- David signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: Are you being heard?
On 8/6/2009 12:43 AM, gil...@altern.org wrote: David Boles wrote: Are you blind? Did you not see the link in Anne's post? No, unfortunately, I'm not blind. I believe that's going to be it for me on the KDE matter. You like it? Use it! I forgot. To tell you the truth, I'd rather switch to XFCE4 than to KDE4. Again. Your choice. -- David signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: Are you being heard?
On 8/6/2009 12:16 AM, Ed Greshko wrote: David Boles wrote: On 8/6/2009 12:43 AM, gil...@altern.org wrote: David Boles wrote: Are you blind? Did you not see the link in Anne's post? No, unfortunately, I'm not blind. I believe that's going to be it for me on the KDE matter. You like it? Use it! I forgot. To tell you the truth, I'd rather switch to XFCE4 than to KDE4. Again. Your choice. Don't know why I'm jumping in heremust be bored waiting for the typhoon to hit I appears to be going right over. Not too close I hope. We get hurricanes here. Anyway I've always been a KDE user. Still on KDE 3.5 since my work system is RHEL. I'm using KDE 4.X on my F11 testing system. After I got over my natural resistance to change I can say I really like it and I'm looking forward to its release on a future RHEL. Gonna have to go over to the link Anne posted and provide my constructive suggestions. I am sure that they will listen. Nice group of people. They are looking for writers too. :-) -- David signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: How to gut %$##@ Firefox?
On 8/2/2009 3:06 PM, Beartooth wrote: They make it incredibly tedious to get rid of all their miserable language-pack cruft -- and the minute you turn your back, they shove it all in again. Is there a way to prevent / disable that abominable practice? Or has the time come to admit that the blasted browser is not worth the trouble it takes? Is there a reasonably similar one without this disgusting practice? Seamonkey, maybe? Get Firefox directly from Mozilla. It does not come with all the languages. -- David signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: why are my e-mail not get through?
Gene Heskett wrote: On Thursday 30 July 2009, Justin P. Mattock wrote: I've sent one e-mail that seemed to go through to the list, but then another which gives me the failure notice from *.de why? Justin P. Mattock I'm drowning in those. Why someone would subscribe to a list such as this, and allow their ISP to reject the incoming list back as personal mail boggles the mind. FSCKing dumb is what it is. I verify that is what it is, and kmail has a big red X for those. What do 'they' look like Gene? I don't see anything such as you two describe. -- David signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: why are my e-mail not get through?
Justin P. Mattock wrote: David Boles wrote: Gene Heskett wrote: On Thursday 30 July 2009, Justin P. Mattock wrote: I've sent one e-mail that seemed to go through to the list, but then another which gives me the failure notice from *.de why? Justin P. Mattock I'm drowning in those. Why someone would subscribe to a list such as this, and allow their ISP to reject the incoming list back as personal mail boggles the mind. FSCKing dumb is what it is. I verify that is what it is, and kmail has a big red X for those. What do 'they' look like Gene? I don't see anything such as you two describe. here's the subjects for the two: grubby recieved SIGSEGV! Backtrace (6): imac9,1 GeForce 9400 loads x86_64 live cd, but GeForce GT 130 results in a black screen Justin P. Mattock I just *had* to ask didn't I? ;-) I just got the bounce. I would think I should get one for this too. -- David signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: Mail bounce loop, I'm drowning in it.
Gene Heskett wrote: Greetings; hacker...@versanet.de Please unsubscribe this person ASAP, his server is bouncing the list messages back to our private in-boxes. If you go to the listed unsubscribe url there is a list of the people that maintain this list at the bottom. -- David signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: Mail bounce loop, I'm drowning in it.
Antonio Olivares wrote: --- On Thu, 7/30/09, Gene Heskett gene.hesk...@verizon.net wrote: From: Gene Heskett gene.hesk...@verizon.net Subject: Mail bounce loop, I'm drowning in it. To: Community assistance, encouragement, and advice for using Fedora. fedora-list@redhat.com Date: Thursday, July 30, 2009, 7:57 PM Greetings; hacker...@versanet.de Please unsubscribe this person ASAP, his server is bouncing the list messages back to our private in-boxes. -- Does this ring a bell? Anyone remember Peter Whalley? It is Deja Vu all over again :) I did not see this, till I sent a mail to the list :) Regards, Antonio There has, IMHO, been a lot of strange activity on several of the Fedora lists lately. 'Newcomers' that post rants about Fedora in general. How things are done. What is 'wrong' with Fedora. Why can't Fedora include this or that which is usually proprietary software. And then not accepting the explanation. The threads go on and on as someone tries to explain it. Sometimes the OP will even reply. Usually they don't. When the thread finally dies out another one, but different, appears the next day. This email bounce is really strange too. I remember two posts from the person(?). And then he is never heard from again. It's like a strange form of SPAM. Something to disrupt the list and to distract the members. I find that very odd. -- David signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: Mail bounce loop, I'm drowning in it.
Patrick O'Callaghan wrote: On Fri, 2009-07-31 at 01:01 -0400, David Boles wrote: It's like a strange form of SPAM. Something to disrupt the list and to distract the members. The word you're hunting for is trolling. Last time I used that word, trolling, I was told that I was wrong by several list members. Thanks for saying it first. I agree completely. :-) -- David signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: Streaming video capture problem - SOLVED
David Boles wrote: I have a friend that perched herself on a plinth in Trafalgar Square as part of a 'live sculpture' project. The streaming video is Flash. And the videos are archived can be viewed later. She want to show this to her mother but her mother has no computer to view it with. Nothing that I have tried will capture the video. Video located here: http://www.oneandother.co.uk/participants/Margot Any suggestions? A friend, offline, suggested xvidcap. I had no luck with that as it seriously crashed my system several times between 10 minutes and 25 minutes into the screen capture. Crashed seriously enough that it took the reset button to recover. First the *good* news first. :-) A work partner of my son captured this and converted it into a European format DVD for me. Now the *bad* news. Problem solved but not with Linux. :-( -- David signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: fedora consumer satisfaction statistics
David L wrote: Is there any way to rank one's satisfactions with different components of fedora and the release as a whole? It would be really nice if people could express their displeasure or lack thereof without (or in addition to) sending emails to the list. For example, a lot of people bitch about pulseaudio, networkmanager, and say things like fedora 11 worst then ever release. But I'd like to know statistics on these things rather than just seeing a random samples of emails that say this is broken and works for me. What you are looking for, and many here lately are missing, is a personal 'blog'. Some that post here have this *help me with a Fedora problem* list confused with a 'rant and rave' personal blog. Or general chat list. Which it is not. I know one can file bug reports and watch bug reports, but I'm not sure if there is a way to tell how happy people are with something. For example, I might file a bunch of bug reports against a component even though I'm in general pretty happy with it. And I might file a single bug report against something that doesn't work at all for me (for me, it's pulseaudio and Intel video). And I don't file any bug reports against KDE, which I stopped using when 4.x was introduced into Fedora because it was so broken at that time. I'd like to see a plot versus Fedora release of the user satisfaction of KDE... I suspect it plummeted with fedora 8 (or whatever release started using 4.x) and isn't back to where it was before. It has been my experience here that few, very few, people write in and say that 'everything is beautiful. Everything works out-of-the-box. All is wonderful. :-) After all it is a help list not a praise list. Some people, the majority, write here because something just does not work correctly for them. Or just how they think it should work. Many here are knowledgeable and try to help. Some people, a vocal minority, write here to 'rant and rave'. To spout off about how bad Fedora is. Or how the way Fedora is is bad because their_reason_goes_here. I tolerate those posts for two, sometimes three, posts then I have a special place to store their posts from then on. It's name is /null/void. :-) On a related topic, is there a way to find per component statistics on the percentage of bug reports that are fixed before the next release? This someone else will have to comment on. Adam might know. -- David signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Streaming video capture problem
I have a friend that perched herself on a plinth in Trafalgar Square as part of a 'live sculpture' project. The streaming video is Flash. And the videos are archived can be viewed later. She want to show this to her mother but her mother has no computer to view it with. Nothing that I have tried will capture the video. Video located here: http://www.oneandother.co.uk/participants/Margot Any suggestions? -- David signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: Streaming video capture problem
Frank Murphy wrote: On 27/07/09 16:32, David Boles wrote: I have a friend that perched herself on a plinth in Trafalgar Square as part of a 'live sculpture' project. The streaming video is Flash. And the videos are archived can be viewed later. She want to show this to her mother but her mother has no computer to view it with. Nothing that I have tried will capture the video. Video located here: http://www.oneandother.co.uk/participants/Margot Any suggestions? It plays fine in FF with Sound use wget to grab the *swf PackageKit should then prompt to install\find correct codecs. If you can get it playing you may be able to then capture it as a theora video? I guess that I was not clear here. :-) I can view and hear the feed just fine. I am trying to capture it. wget? How? There is, or does not appear to be, any visible URL associated with the video feed on display. -- David signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: Streaming video capture problem
Frank Murphy wrote: On 27/07/09 17:19, Frank Murphy wrote: On 27/07/09 16:32, David Boles wrote: Try firefox add-ons: https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/6541 http://www.oneandother.co.uk/flowplayer/flowplayer.commercial-3.1.1.swf?0.605755713305492 If you use firefox, second button click over some text. View page info Media scroll for swf?... Click save as Did you actually try this Frank? :-) I seriously doubt that a one hour capture of a streaming video would only be 106k in length. But thanks for the suggestion(s) -- David signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: Streaming video capture problem
Tim wrote: On Mon, 2009-07-27 at 12:48 -0400, David Boles wrote: I am trying to capture it. wget? How? There is, or does not appear to be, any visible URL associated with the video feed on display. If you use the FlashBlock plugin for Firefox, any blocked Flash content has a right-click option to copy the location (web address) for it. For un-obscured media in a page, Firefox's page info pop-up lists the different content. And there are download helper plugins that help you to save various things from a page. Flash block is/was disabled. Actually Adblock Plus was alos a problem. I have tried all of the Firefox extensions. As I said before - I can view and hear the video feed but I can find no way to download it. -- David signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: Streaming video capture problem
Tim wrote: On Mon, 2009-07-27 at 14:33 -0400, David Boles wrote: Flash block is/was disabled. You could re-enable it for a moment, then you get the useful right-click option on the blocked content. Useful for what? Nothing in the blockable items list is the link to the video. Flash Block was not stopping the original viewing. The viewing works with Flash Block enabled and with an 'exception' for the site. Adblock was what stopped the viewing originally. The only URL there is an advertisement that leads to the video. The URL for the video is hidden in some way. It 'looks' like Java script. -- David signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: Streaming video capture problem
Frank Murphy wrote: On 27/07/09 19:33, David Boles wrote: snip Maybe? http://www.eglug.org/node/2079 Looks interesting. I'll try this when I get home tonight. Thanks. -- David signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: Streaming video capture problem
Anne Wilson wrote: On Monday 27 July 2009 16:32:32 David Boles wrote: I have a friend that perched herself on a plinth in Trafalgar Square as part of a 'live sculpture' project. The streaming video is Flash. And the videos are archived can be viewed later. She want to show this to her mother but her mother has no computer to view it with. Nothing that I have tried will capture the video. Video located here: http://www.oneandother.co.uk/participants/Margot Wow! It plays in Konqueror! Amazing! Any suggestions? http://www.captureyoutube.net/ looks as though it would help. That is a very interesting site. Thanks. But it will only help if you can also come up with the URL to the actual video too. :-) -- David signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: Streaming video capture problem
Anne Wilson wrote: On Monday 27 July 2009 21:11:36 David Boles wrote: Tim wrote: On Mon, 2009-07-27 at 14:33 -0400, David Boles wrote: Flash block is/was disabled. You could re-enable it for a moment, then you get the useful right-click option on the blocked content. Useful for what? Nothing in the blockable items list is the link to the video. Flash Block was not stopping the original viewing. The viewing works with Flash Block enabled and with an 'exception' for the site. Adblock was what stopped the viewing originally. The only URL there is an advertisement that leads to the video. The URL for the video is hidden in some way. It 'looks' like Java script. I had the same problem a while ago with a cnn video. I couldn't understand why adblock was the problem, but it was. The script that starts the video has a commercial in it (ad) and if it does not run the script is stopped before it get to were the video starts. -- David signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: Streaming video capture problem
Anne Wilson wrote:
On Monday 27 July 2009 21:12:30 David Boles wrote:
Anne Wilson wrote:
On Monday 27 July 2009 16:32:32 David Boles wrote:
I have a friend that perched herself on a plinth in Trafalgar Square as
part of a 'live sculpture' project.
The streaming video is Flash. And the videos are archived can be viewed
later.
She want to show this to her mother but her mother has no computer to
view it with. Nothing that I have tried will capture the video.
Video located here: http://www.oneandother.co.uk/participants/Margot
Wow! It plays in Konqueror! Amazing!
Any suggestions?
http://www.captureyoutube.net/ looks as though it would help.
That is a very interesting site. Thanks.
But it will only help if you can also come up with the URL to the actual
video too. :-)
Looking at the source, the clue may be here:
level3: {
url: '/flowplayer/flowplayer.rtmp-3.1.0.swf',
netConnectionUrl:
'rtmp://bskybartsfs.fplive.net/bskybarts'
}
}
None of those are actual URLs to the video. Of all of these the largest
was 160k. I doubt that a full hour of audio and video would be that
small. ;-)
--
David
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Re: Streaming video capture problem
suvayu ali wrote: 2009/7/27 David Boles dgbo...@comcast.net: On Monday 27 July 2009 16:32:32 David Boles wrote: I have a friend that perched herself on a plinth in Trafalgar Square as part of a 'live sculpture' project. The streaming video is Flash. And the videos are archived can be viewed later. She want to show this to her mother but her mother has no computer to view it with. Nothing that I have tried will capture the video. Video located here: http://www.oneandother.co.uk/participants/Margot . None of those are actual URLs to the video. Of all of these the largest was 160k. I doubt that a full hour of audio and video would be that small. ;-) I think you are misjudging the situation. The stream seems to be a live stream. If that is the case, then there is _no_ file. The only way to grab something like that would be with a script using mplayer or vlc. I don't know how to do that, but that seems to be the only possible solution. I think someone posted an mplayer script to do something like this a few months back, but in that case it was _not_ a flash stream. Maybe the archives will help you here. Read what I have written very, very carefully. The video was recorded during the hour that she was on the pedestal. That was Sunday afternoon in London. Early Sunday morning here. If you go to the link I posted you can watch the video of what was originally displayed live now. Which means? There is a recording and I am still trying to get the link to the recorded video for her which is in these archives. -- David signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: Why Fedora is for experts only?
Timothy Murphy wrote: David Boles wrote: Fedora has its place. Fedora is a distribution for the user that is smarter that what they are doing. The user that can solve a little problem. ... (K)Ubuntu has its place. They are distribution for the 'install it and forget it' crowd. They do all the setups and configuration and all of the nanny hand holding. Is that the general view? I ran Kubuntu on one laptop for a time, and it seemed 99% identical to Fedora + KDE. In fact I couldn't tell which I was using most of the time. I went back to Fedora on this laptop because it was less trouble to run one distribution. I read many other lists and several Linux oriented blogs and forums. IMO what I said was the general view of those users. One common thought though out was I want something that 'just works' and I don't want to have to hunt and search to fix things that don't. So that is why I switched from name_of_ distro_goes_here to (K)Ubuntu. I, myself personally, know of about ten users (is nine and one is leaning) that have (might) switched to Kubuntu from several other reasonably well known distros. No names but you would more than likely recognize the distro names. 1. The difference between KDE and Gnome strikes me as far greater, at least as far as the user is concerned, than any difference between distributions. 2. I don't think distributions matter nearly as much as they used to, with so many things being run over the web, even in a home system. Even Linux vs Windows is becoming much less important. IMO the KDE, in general, provided by KDE oriented distros is 'better' than the KDE provided by GNOME oriented distro. And that is my opinion only. I do not use KDE. However I have seen *great* strides here at Fedora with KDE. Rex Deiter(sp? last name?) and all have done amazing things of late with KDE in Fedora over at the kde-fedora repo. -- David signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: Why Fedora is for experts only?
Marko Vojinovic wrote: On Saturday 25 July 2009 06:11:30 gil...@altern.org wrote: jack craig wrote: Really, pausing for a few seconds still seems to me like the best option. The way out is easier than I thought but when a newbie comes to Linux and he's already afraid because everybody says that Fedora is for experts only, he might not look further and give up. no pain, no gain, ... and no market share. Market share has nothing specific to do with Fedora. Ubuntu should be distro of choice for newbies and market share gaining, not Fedora. If Ubuntu is also configured not to have that two second pause in grub, you should ask *them* to fix it, since they have a lot of newbies who might get into trouble without it. If a newbie tries Fedora and gets disappointed, the problem is not the default configuration choices of Fedora, but the user choice of the distro. There are different levels of user-friendlyness. Fedora is mainly targeting users who are already devoted to Linux, so its default configuration tries to be seasoned-user-friendly, not newbie-friendly. Better go whine on the Ubuntu list for such defaults. Fedora is simply not the distro that should be used for advertizing Linux to newbies and gaining potential market share. Being a Linux user since RH 6.2 days, I am quite happy with the default config of grub in Fedora, and I guess most Fedora users are also fine with it. Those who are not are usually proficient enough to customize it themselves to meet their needs. I have followed this thread inspire of myself. :-) Each of you makes good points and offer good information. All of which the OP refuses to take into consideration. Plainly and simply said. (Puts on flame proof suit here). Fedora has its place. Fedora is a distribution for the user that is smarter that what they are doing. The user that can solve a little problem. A user that, with some suggestions and pointers, can solve a more difficult problem. A user that will, after trying these suggestion and tips, see what could be a bug and reports it. A user that works with the developer(s) to correct the bug. For themselves and for others. (K)Ubuntu has its place. They are distribution for the 'install it and forget it' crowd. They do all the setups and configuration and all of the nanny hand holding. This 'install it and forget it' crowd then sits in front of the monitor and 'surfs the web'. They play their mp3s. They watch their videos. These users, the 'install it and forget it' crowd, are the ones that show up on this list with the 'this is crap' and 'my stuff don't' work! rants and whines. Notice the excessive punctuation. :-) Or sometimes the write blog entries to this list. Like karl did. And Karl 1.2 is doing today. Nuf Sed. /Plunk -- David signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: Why Fedora is for experts only?
Suvayu Ali wrote: On Saturday 25 July 2009 08:34 AM, David Boles wrote: (K)Ubuntu has its place. They are distribution for the 'install it and forget it' crowd. They do all the setups and configuration and all of the nanny hand holding. This 'install it and forget it' crowd then sits in front of the monitor and 'surfs the web'. They play their mp3s. They watch their videos. These users, the 'install it and forget it' crowd, are the ones that show up on this list with the 'this is crap' and 'my stuff don't' work! rants and whines. Notice the excessive punctuation. :-) *ubuntu is not that install and forget if you want to do something serious. I use Fedora 11 at home and Xubuntu 8.04 for work, and every time I try out something not conventional Fedora works flawlessly whereas Xubuntu fails big time. I hate it, but the management at our lab prefers that. Just my 2 cents. I understand what you mean. If you read what I said when I said install and forget it was Joe/Jane Average User that (K)Ubuntu is made for. Mostly. Not power users or professionals. -- David signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: What is the point of the NM keyring?
Timothy Murphy wrote: Patrick O'Callaghan wrote: But that made me wonder what possible point the keyring password could have? Is it intended as some kind of security device? As far as I can see, you have to be logged in to run NM, and if you are logged in you can delete this file. I might say the same about the KDE wallet system. How does this make one's part of the system more secure, since it is open to you to change the wallet password, or even to make it empty? The point is to allow you to store large numbers of passwords or encryption keys to be applied automatically when required (modulo the collaboration of the password-requiring agent of course), so you don't have to answer a challenge every time you use something that requires a password or key. I'm almost convinced. But what is the point of having large numbers of passwords, if one password will open all the locks? Gee Timothy. Do you lock all of the doors on your house with the same key? And your auto? How about the office door(s)? All with the same key? You 'lock' everything with the same key and then the key is stolen and/or cracked. Does that mean that you are really, really open then? ;-) -- David signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list
Re: Mirrors(?) for local repo
Frank Murphy wrote: How do you know the correct mirrors for rsync a local repo. Is it by the biggest bandwidth one chooses, or just the closest geographically? Closest does not necessarily mean 'fastest'. And not all mirrors support rsync. -- David signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list
Re: Mirrors(?) for local repo
Frank Murphy wrote: On Sun, 2008-06-22 at 08:07 -0400, David Boles wrote: Frank Murphy wrote: How do you know the correct mirrors for rsync a local repo. Is it by the biggest bandwidth one chooses, or just the closest geographically? Closest does not necessarily mean 'fastest'. And not all mirrors support rsync. I'm looking at the mirrors page, put how to choose? Look at the sites that list rsync and then look at the ones that have the highest bandwidth. Then read the comments on the far right. The FedoraUnity Fedora 9 everything spins are 24 CDs or 4 DVDs. So if that is what you intend to do you have a lot to download. I still don't understand why. You do understand how rsync works correct? The first time you download *everything* you will do just that. Download *everything*. And since the 'everything' folder does not change you will not get anything new from there. The only folder that would change for you is the Fedora 9 updates folder. -- David signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list
Re: Any hope of KDE 3.5 in F10? I want it too !
Ric Moore wrote: On Sun, 2008-06-22 at 05:56 +, g wrote: It might be better to avoid the use of labels as much as possible. I know it's hard to do in practice. Sadly, I have my share of favorites. Idiot just rolls off the fingers when typing it. So does Twit. That's a really good one. Stupid gets my hackles up though, I'll battle on that one. cackles Again, it's better to not use them at all. Ric A sensible person would run CentOS, or RHEL, or one of the many others, for a server. It would be foolish to run any distro, such as Fedora, there are many others, in a production type situation. Something that changes as often, as quickly, and a radically as Fedora does not, would not, be a good choice for a stable LAN or production system. Only if you want to be cheap and get 'the free stuff' would it make sense. And then 'they' would have to deal with the problems. So tell me Ric. What would you call someone that would do this, described above? Bob? Fred? Or a fool? BTW: Main Entry: Function: noun Etymology: Middle English, from Anglo-French fol, from Late Latin follis, from Latin, bellows, bag; akin to Old High German bolla blister, balg bag — more at belly Date: 13th century 1: a person lacking in judgment or prudence snip -- David signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list
Re: Any hope of KDE 3.5 in F10? I want it too !
Mike Bird wrote: On Sun June 22 2008 19:18:46 David Boles wrote: A sensible person would run CentOS, or RHEL, or one of the many others, for a server. It would be foolish to run any distro, such as Fedora, there are many others, in a production type situation. Would it meet your definition of foolish for a Gnome user such as yourself to keep posting off-topic comments about servers in a KDE thread discussing production workstations - i.e. workstations used for office work, web design, software development, systems management, etc? GNOME and KDE have little to do with this. KDE and GNOME are DM. Desktops. Pretty GUIs. If you use 'real' application for your work they should work in either. Actually they should work in X alone and not need either GNOME or KGE at all. I now consider myself foolish for trying to discuss this with those that will not be helped. Enjoy KDE 4.x and have a nice day. -- David signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list
Re: Downloading everything under .../Everything .../Fedora
Frank Murphy wrote: What is the best method to download everything under the ../Everything .../Fedora from one of the mirrors wget? waht options Need the F9 stuff for testing. Why would you want to download 'everything'? To fill up space on your hard drive? ;-) Seriously. That would be in the neighborhood of 9+ gigs of packages. Why not just install what you want to test? -- David signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list
Re: Downloading everything under .../Everything .../Fedora
Frank Murphy wrote: On Sat, 2008-06-21 at 08:32 -0400, David Boles wrote: Frank Murphy wrote: What is the best method to download everything under the ../Everything .../Fedora from one of the mirrors wget? waht options Need the F9 stuff for testing. Why would you want to download 'everything'? To fill up space on your hard drive? ;-) Seriously. That would be in the neighborhood of 9+ gigs of packages. Why not just install what you want to test? Basically at the moment I know it's not \*usb\* or \*mouse\* is my problem, everything else I need to test one package at a time :) The upside is I may eventually be able to use them as a local repo, Well that is your choice of course. But do you really need all of the office suites? All of GNOME? Or KDE? Or Apache? All of the language packages? ;-) And Anne is correct here. Fedora has said before that some things just don't play together well. If you are looking for a local repo of packages that you can install on several machines why not just set yum to keep the package(s) that you download and use them on the other machines instead of downloading all of these packages? Most of which you will not use anyway. -- David signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list
Re: Any hope of KDE 3.5 in F10? I want it too !
Timothy Murphy wrote: Arthur Pemberton wrote: They'll wait till Fedora users and other similar early adopters have helped iron out the bugs. Kinda like Pulse Audio, NetworkManager, etc I fear that will be a very long wait ... Actually, NM has been getting slowly but steadily better on my machines. It would have been very foolish to have waited. (But I still don't like NM's works like magic approach.) Sound remains a complete mystery to me. As far as I can make out, pulseaudio is one of several developments that were intended to make the sound setup simpler, but which in fact have added another layer of obfuscation to an already confused mess. Too many cooks spoil the broth? Pulseaudio is supposed to allow you to set the volume level(s) of various applications/output devices so that they can be different. Music soft. Ta-Ta! loud. As well as others. What is not so functional is the applications that are not yet able to mix with pulseaudio. I can;t speak about NM. I don't need or use it. I know some that do use it and they do not have problems. I read of problems here though. Which, to me, sounds like hardware support problems. -- David signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list
Re: Downloading everything under .../Everything .../Fedora
Frank Murphy wrote: On Sat, 2008-06-21 at 09:21 -0400, David Boles wrote: But do you really need all of the office suites? All of GNOME? Or KDE? Or Apache? All of the language packages? ;-) And Anne is correct here. Fedora has said before that some things just don't play together well. If you are looking for a local repo of packages that you can install on several machines why not just set yum to keep the package(s) that you download and use them on the other machines instead of downloading all of these packages? Most of which you will not use anyway. Honestly don't need everything, but have a number of different Fedora boxes all F9 (excl rawhides) I would need X,Gnome, and the fedora base. Show me how tp yum local.repo that on my centos5x server, and I'll probably go that way. el google wasn't much help as it's talking about using dvd images etc.. whebn doing locals. http://www.howtoforge.com/creating_a_local_yum_repository_centos or question #11 here http://wiki.linux.duke.edu/YumFaq As for keeping the downloaded packages? change keepcache=0 to keepcache=1 in the yum.conf file -- David signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list
Re: Downloading everything under .../Everything .../Fedora
Frank Murphy wrote: On Sat, 2008-06-21 at 09:42 -0400, David Boles wrote: http://www.howtoforge.com/creating_a_local_yum_repository_centos or question #11 here http://wiki.linux.duke.edu/YumFaq As for keeping the downloaded packages? change keepcache=0 to keepcache=1 in the yum.conf file That's the dogs dinner Good luck. -- David signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list
Re: Any hope of KDE 3.5 in F10? I want it too !
Timothy Murphy wrote: David Boles wrote: Chill out guy. All you are hearing is the sour grapes. The 'happiest' never post. Except for Anne. Maybe happy pills should be circulated with Linux distributions ... Seriously, I think Anne is too kind. I am genuinely puzzled by the minor problems that came with KDE-4. It is as though the KDE-4 team was completely independent of the KDE-3 crew, and started again from scratch. However, the problems in my view are or were minor, and certainly not worth writing to the Pope about. I'd just ask the KDE and Fedora developers to bear in mind that simplicity is a virtue, and that a little time should be spent examining if it is possible to simplify the distribution, as eg Torvalds seems to me to do rather will with the kernel. Bear this in mind to then. KDE developers are doing the actual developing of KDE 4.x and Fedora's KDE team is doing the packaging. KDE has been talking about these major changes for a long time. And I can only imagine the screaming and complaints if Fedora had *not* provided KDE 4.0. ;-) -- David signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list
Re: Can't get flash-plugin working in FF3 ??
William Case wrote: Hi; The subject of media has been something I have avoided, so I am a newbie at understanding what I might be doing wrong. I am running F9 -x86_64 and FireFox3. Yum shows me flash-plugin (Adobe Flash Plugin 9.0.124.0 arch i386) is installed. Firefox 'about:plugin' shows me flash-plugin is NOT installed. After download and installation I re-booted just to sure and no joy. What could I be doing wrong? Where should I look? Is there an arch mis-match? Dumb question: Is there a Linux substitute for Adobe Flash? This works for Flash and x_64 10.3.1. Enabling Flash Plugin http://docs.fedoraproject.org/release-notes/f8/en_US/sn-Desktop.html#sn-KDE-Desktop -- David signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list
Re: Any hope of KDE 3.5 in F10? I want it too !
Patrick O'Callaghan wrote: On Sun, 2008-06-22 at 02:40 +0930, Tim wrote: Totally agree with this. It's hard enough even figuring out what the various mixer controls even control. It is a choice. If you, either of you, do not like it you should disable it. But I seriously doubt that Pulseaudio will 'just go away' because you don't like it. ;-) -- David signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list
Re: Any hope of KDE 3.5 in F10? I want it too !
Patrick O'Callaghan wrote: On Sat, 2008-06-21 at 14:36 -0400, David Boles wrote: Patrick O'Callaghan wrote: On Sun, 2008-06-22 at 02:40 +0930, Tim wrote: Totally agree with this. It's hard enough even figuring out what the various mixer controls even control. It is a choice. If you, either of you, do not like it you should disable it. But I seriously doubt that Pulseaudio will 'just go away' because you don't like it. ;-) You misunderstand me. It's not that I dislike PA, I dislike *all* the sound systems on Linux because I don't understand them and have never seen a clear explanation of how they all fit together and what they do. It seems to me (and it isn't the first time I've made the point) that there's a gaping hole where a unified model should be. Maybe I'm just stupid but I seem to see a lot of different models with overlapping functionality and no clear relation between them. And every time someone comes up with a new architecture (like PA) we have N+1 systems where previously we had N. In fact the mixer issue isn't even related to PA since I use Kmix. I think that we are misunderstanding each other. :-) What Is PulseAudio? PulseAudio is a sound server for POSIX and Win32 systems. A sound server is basically a proxy for your sound applications. It allows you to do advanced operations on your sound data as it passes between your application and your hardware. Things like transferring the audio to a different machine, changing the sample format or channel count and mixing several sounds into one are easily achieved using a sound server. As for the sound applications? Each is the same thing with a different look and feel. As are, for example, your favorite CD burning program and mine which is different looking. All the GUI's do is make the command line entries for you with 'point an click' stuff. The problem with sound being, IMO, that some work 'here' and don't 'work there'. And with all of that you have the 'buy me' codecs too. Which, it appears, is the main cause of the 'sound stopped/does not' work problems. I can feel the pain that some have with their installs. But (knock wood) I have no had a Linux related problem since I trashed the ZIP Drive many years ago. I get bumps and hiccups from time to time but nothing like I read here. Which makes me wonder... hardware or PEBCAK? ;-) -- David signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list
Re: Any hope of KDE 3.5 in F10? I want it too !
Arthur Pemberton wrote: On Sat, Jun 21, 2008 at 4:51 PM, Patrick O'Callaghan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Well the main idea behind PA is to eradicate that problem since it will be a super set And, as I said, I have no problems with Pulseaudio. Why? Well I have a desktop with 'normal' hardware. I don't have anything fancy. And, for me Fedora works 'out of the box'. Actually I normally (currently) run rawhide and I only have the 'development breakage', to be expected, from time to time. I won't name, on the Fedora list, the other Linux distros that I have installed and that run with no, or minor, problems. But there are nine of them. So? Am I just lucky? Or do I just have compatible hardware? Or do I just not try to do strange things'? I can't say. I mentioned before about a Linux problem and dumping a ZIP Drive to solve it. That was with Mandrake 7.0. Circa 2000 or so. -- David signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list
Re: Any hope of KDE 3.5 in F10? I want it too !
Kevin Kofler wrote: Mike Bird mgb-fedora at yosemite.net writes: I'm expecting KDE 4.2 or KDE 4.3 to be suitable for prime time. They should arrive in Fedora in May 2009 and November 2009. I can't promise anything at this time (also because upstream hasn't decided on a schedule for 4.2 yet, at least not that I know of), but KDE 4.2 could hit Fedora as soon as February 2009, as a Fedora 10 (maybe also Fedora 9) update. All this is not decided yet (and again, it also depends on upstream), but it is no way a sure thing that 4.2 will only hit in May. Kevin, Inhale - hold - exhale - pause - repeat. ;-) You KDE people (team?) are doing a fine job. -- David signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list
Re: Any hope of KDE 3.5 in F10? I want it too !
Mike Bird wrote: On Sat June 21 2008 16:53:07 David Boles wrote: KDE 4.0 was released on schedule in January. KDE 4.1 is still on track for July. So you did see the proposed schedule? And were aware of the possible problems. Good work. Most Fedora and Ubuntu releases are on time. Which distro do you use? I use Fedora. I normally use Rawhide because I do not have a production system. I can live with the often problems. Since i do not really follow releases, mine is a daily release, I don't recall if it was Fedora 7 or Fedora 8 that was late. Yes, I answered your questions. We installed F9 on test boxes. F9 is not deployable because of KDE 4. We did not put F9 on any production boxes. Please see the subject of this thread. The question is not whether people were surprised by KDE 4. Everyone knows KDE 4 will take a while before it's useful. Even Aaron is disappointed that critical functionality missed not only 4.0 but also 4.1. The question is whether Fedora would provide a migration path by supporting KDE 3.5 in F10. And the answer was a resounding this is too difficult so go use another distro. Hmm... so you are saying that Fedora should continue to provide support for KDE 3.5.9. A DM that has, it appears, been dropped by KDE for their new release. KDE 4.x. Since, again it appears, that there won't be any new KDE 3.5.9 'stuff' from KDE just what would you expect Fedora to do? Write 'stuff' for KDE? If you read what Anne wrote Mandriva is trying the duel path. And it fails miserably. So you want Fedora to follow that path too? Why? One question. If, *if*, KDE is mission critical for you just why did you/are upgrading? Why not wait for Fedora 10 and a maybe more stable KDE? It has been years ago but I seem to recall a very similar situation when KDE went from 2.x to 3.x. If you tried KDE 4.0 and it was not suitable I gather that you stayed with F-8 and KDE 3.5.9? Or did you upgrade anyway? Bitching and whining about this solves nothing. Fedora is *not* in control of what KDE does. But *you* are in control of what you do with your machines. And as for a a migration path? You have one. Stay with stable Fedora 8/KDE 3.5.9 or upgrade to Fedora 9 with KDE 4.x and live with it untill it functions as you wish. The choice *is* yours to make. Do it. Or don't do it. Pick one. As for complaining? Wrong list. Go to a KDE list, or their bugzilla, and bitch and whine there. This topic is getting boring. I'm done here. -- David signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list
Re: Any hope of KDE 3.5 in F10? I want it too !
Craig White wrote: On Sat, 2008-06-21 at 20:28 -0400, Matthew Saltzman wrote: On Sat, 2008-06-21 at 23:24 +, Kevin Kofler wrote: Craig White craigwhite at azapple.com writes: People who do software development wouldn't care whether it's KDE 3.5 or KDE 4 Actually they'll want KDE 4. Who wants to develop against an obsolete API? KDE developers, sure. There's other software in the world than GUI-based desktop apps. and it was this class that I was referring to. people who develop software can maneuver around little things that are missing or don't seem to work properly. the issue of unleashing KDE-4 on less technically skilled, un-savvy computer users is something that I'm still balking at but I'm not complaining...just noting. I have no choice because I am dealing with a bunch of users that save files to their desktop and drag them where they want them and simply do not understand file-save dialog boxes and how to move around in them. That sounds like quite a task. -- David signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list
Re: Any hope of KDE 3.5 in F10? I want it too !
Mike Bird wrote: On Sat June 21 2008 19:15:57 David Boles wrote: David, you asked this question. I answered it. You asked if I had answered your question and asked your question again. I answered your question again. Now you reply to my answer to your question by asking the same question again. We tested F9 but we did not deploy F9 because of KDE 4. You have already admitted that you're a Gnome user rather than a KDE user. Yet you have posted 17 times in this KDE thread, repeating the same questions over and over again. Admited No. I stated that I am a GNOME user. KDE has done nothing wrong. The problem is that Fedora is the only distro not supporting KDE 3.5 until KDE 4 is ready for prime time. And the solution, which has been repeatedly expressed here, is for people using KDE in production environments to switch to a different distro. End of story. Then, if I was you I would run to these other distros and drop Fedora like a hot brick. Oh, BTW, IMO *anyone* that would use Fedora version anything in a production environment is a fool. Fedora itself has said that. Many times. -- David signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list
Re: Any hope of KDE 3.5 in F10? I want it too !
Anne Wilson wrote: On Friday 20 June 2008 21:09:57 Craig White wrote: My experience is that each Linux distribution has its own strengths and weaknesses and that all Linux users benefit from having options. Precisely. I use CentOS where I need total stability, Mandriva where I want ease for technophobics and Fedora on the rest. Where else do you get choice like this? Anne, and all KDE users. Do any of you really, and I mean really, believe that Fedora is responsible for the KDE 'problems'? That the KDE problems are not KDE's problems? That Fedora released in their ISO's a KDE that was made intentionally to 'break' KDE in Fedora? I know that you don't Anne ;-) This is mostly addressed at the other users posting in these several threads. Ok. How many of those of you that are disappointed or upset with KDE 4.x did any research *before* you installed/upgraded? How many of you downloaded a KDE Live-CD and actually tried it *before* you installed/upgraded? If you did not look or try it first you have very little to really complain about here. Would you buy a car, a house, rent an apartment, buy a suit, buy a pair of shoes without first looking at them or trying them out/on? Try before you buy. -- David signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list
Re: Any hope of KDE 3.5 in F10? I want it too !
Patrick O'Callaghan wrote: On Fri, 2008-06-20 at 18:09 -0400, David Boles wrote: Anne Wilson wrote: On Friday 20 June 2008 21:09:57 Craig White wrote: My experience is that each Linux distribution has its own strengths and weaknesses and that all Linux users benefit from having options. Precisely. I use CentOS where I need total stability, Mandriva where I want ease for technophobics and Fedora on the rest. Where else do you get choice like this? Anne, and all KDE users. Do any of you really, and I mean really, believe that Fedora is responsible for the KDE 'problems'? That the KDE problems are not KDE's problems? That Fedora released in their ISO's a KDE that was made intentionally to 'break' KDE in Fedora? I know that you don't Anne ;-) This is mostly addressed at the other users posting in these several threads. Ok. How many of those of you that are disappointed or upset with KDE 4.x did any research *before* you installed/upgraded? How many of you downloaded a KDE Live-CD and actually tried it *before* you installed/upgraded? I did that so I knew what I was getting into and I don't regret it for a moment. Linux *needs* more users such as you sir. I tip my hat to you. So many, too many, times I see this 'same' thread, with a different subject, repeated over and over. I use GNOME myself. And that too breaks from time to time. Especially in Rawhide. -- David signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list
Re: Any hope of KDE 3.5 in F10? I want it too !
Craig White wrote: On Fri, 2008-06-20 at 18:09 -0400, David Boles wrote: Anne Wilson wrote: On Friday 20 June 2008 21:09:57 Craig White wrote: My experience is that each Linux distribution has its own strengths and weaknesses and that all Linux users benefit from having options. Precisely. I use CentOS where I need total stability, Mandriva where I want ease for technophobics and Fedora on the rest. Where else do you get choice like this? Anne, and all KDE users. Do any of you really, and I mean really, believe that Fedora is responsible for the KDE 'problems'? That the KDE problems are not KDE's problems? That Fedora released in their ISO's a KDE that was made intentionally to 'break' KDE in Fedora? I know that you don't Anne ;-) This is mostly addressed at the other users posting in these several threads. Ok. How many of those of you that are disappointed or upset with KDE 4.x did any research *before* you installed/upgraded? How many of you downloaded a KDE Live-CD and actually tried it *before* you installed/upgraded? If you did not look or try it first you have very little to really complain about here. Would you buy a car, a house, rent an apartment, buy a suit, buy a pair of shoes without first looking at them or trying them out/on? Try before you buy. this is entirely counter-productive...those who maintain the packages made the decision to go to KDE-4 and those of use who want to use KDE on Fedora, will either stay on Fedora 8 or live with KDE-4 on Fedora 9. KDE is committed to KDE-4 and Fedora-KDE packagers are going with the flow. There is no future in KDE-3.5.x, only the past. Things have improved since the original release and the Live-CD probably doesn't approximate the current experience. It's suitable for my usage. Please don't get into this concept of blaming users because the packages made the decision to go to KDE-4 and we all have to deal with it. It's not a big thing but it's enough to cause me to delay rolling out Fedora-9 to a network of KDE users for now because of their expectations and level of skills has them putting files on the Desktop which is presently dead space on KDE. I was not blaming the KDE users for these KDE problems. My comment was directed at those that jumped before they looked. As for we all have to deal with it? Actually you, and others did not. If you/others had looked/tried KDE 4.x.x you could have stayed with Fedora 8/KDE 3.5.x for about six months while KDE 4.x.x problems were worked out if you were unhappy. As for switching distros? You don't really believe that the other distros won't go to KDE 4.x.x too do you? ;-) -- David signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list
Re: Any hope of KDE 3.5 in F10? I want it too !
Marcelo Magno T. Sales wrote: Em Sexta 20 Junho 2008, David Boles escreveu: Anne Wilson wrote: On Friday 20 June 2008 21:09:57 Craig White wrote: My experience is that each Linux distribution has its own strengths and weaknesses and that all Linux users benefit from having options. Precisely. I use CentOS where I need total stability, Mandriva where I want ease for technophobics and Fedora on the rest. Where else do you get choice like this? Anne, and all KDE users. Do any of you really, and I mean really, believe that Fedora is responsible for the KDE 'problems'? That the KDE problems are not KDE's problems? That Fedora released in their ISO's a KDE that was made intentionally to 'break' KDE in Fedora? I saw no one stating nothing like that. The blame some people have put on Fedora was for shipping an incomplete KDE4 when there was the option to ship the fully functional KDE 3.5.9. These people said that Fedora should have waited for KDE4 to become more stable/functional before opting to include it in Fedora. That's all, and even that is arguable. Agreed that Fedora could have shipped the deprecated KDE 3.5.x. But those KDE users that *made an effort* to look and, and try, KDE 4.x *first*, and did not like it, should have said - I stop here for now with Fedora 8 because I don't like it or it is not 100%. I will wait. No one *forced* you, or anyone else, to upgrade/install Fedora 9 with KDE 4.x. No one held a gun to your head. No one said that they would eat your baby. The choice was yours. And you took it. If you think KDE 4.x is broken on your machine or in your mind then you win the pieces. You broke your install by installing Fedora 9 with KDE 4.x. Which was your choice. Not mine. Not Fedora's. Your's. Many others are adjusting to KDE 4.x and some are even saying that they like it. Anne is a very active KDE user and she tells me that things are improving all of the time. BTW. Next time you blame someone for giving you something for free give it a double, or triple thought before you do. These people work very hard to *give you, for free*, what you are complaining about here. If you had *paid* for it I might accept your points. If you had made the effort to look before you leaped I might accept your points. As for now? I do not. This thread has become a whiners contest. Who can whine the longest or the loudest. Or both. -- David signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list
Re: Any hope of KDE 3.5 in F10? I want it too !
Arthur Pemberton wrote: 2008/6/20 David Boles [EMAIL PROTECTED]: [ snip ] As for switching distros? You don't really believe that the other distros won't go to KDE 4.x.x too do you? ;-) They'll wait till Fedora users and other similar early adopters have helped iron out the bugs. Kinda like Pulse Audio, NetworkManager, etc I can think of several other distros that have KDE 4.x available. Pulse Audio too. I can not speak about any problems with NetworkManager. I do not need or use it so I do not have any experience with it. -- David signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list
Re: Any hope of KDE 3.5 in F10? I want it too !
Mike Bird wrote: On Fri June 20 2008 15:09:10 David Boles wrote: Ok. How many of those of you that are disappointed or upset with KDE 4.x did any research *before* you installed/upgraded? How many of you downloaded a KDE Live-CD and actually tried it *before* you installed/upgraded? Please see the subject of this thread. Those of us who are switching are doing so because the answer to the question was negative. We didn't randomly upgrade our production systems. We tested F9 and determined that KDE 4.x is not ready for prime time. On Fri June 20 2008 15:32:54 David Boles wrote: As for switching distros? You don't really believe that the other distros won't go to KDE 4.x.x too do you? ;-) The other distros are supporting both KDE 3.5 and KDE 4.x for one to three years. This allows people to migrate once KDE 4.x meets their needs. FWIW it looks like we'll probably standardize on Debian Lenny, although Kubuntu Hardy is still a possibility. Then by all means you should certainly switch. Linux is choice. But you do know that you new distro will switch to KDE 4.0 soon too right? -- David signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list
Re: Any hope of KDE 3.5 in F10? I want it too !
Kevin Kofler wrote: Paul Johnson pauljohn32 at gmail.com writes: He is speaking for me. I was a RedHat / Fedora user 10 years, 1 month ago, I became an Ubuntu user. FYI, Kubuntu is dropping KDE 3 support in Intrepid Ibex, which will be released at about the same time as Fedora 10. https://wiki.kubuntu.org/KubuntuIntrepidVersion Their setup will be almost exactly as it is now in Fedora 9 (and will be in Fedora 10 too): no more KDE 3 desktop and core KDE 3 modules, only KDE 3 libraries and the KDE 3 versions of (mostly third-party) applications not yet ported to KDE 4. So the distro you're switching to isn't really doing much different from the one you're escaping from, the only difference is that they're doing things one release later, with the intermediary solution of parallel-installable KDE 3 and 4 in Hardy Heron, which we skipped because it would have been a lot of work for something which would probably have been thrown out one or two releases later (in Kubuntu, that solution is only lasting for a single release!). Hey Kevin! ;-) Take a breath. You, and all the KDE team, did IMO a great job. Which I am sure will go on and things will all be flowers soon. Chill out guy. All you are hearing is the sour grapes. The 'happiest' never post. Except for Anne. -- David signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list
Re: Any hope of KDE 3.5 in F10? I want it too !
Mike Bird wrote: On Fri June 20 2008 16:33:27 David Boles wrote: This thread has become a whiners contest. Who can whine the longest or the loudest. Or both. We surrender David. You win. Hi Mike. I was not looking for that. ;-) Linux is choice. You chose what to use, or not to use. You also get to keep the pieces when it breaks. I don't know you age. There was a BBS program named OPUS back before The Internet. A community project. It worked really well but it took a lot of work, by hand no GUI stuff, to get it to work. Their disclaimer was something like 'If you break it you get to keep the pieces'. I feel the same way about Linux. Learn what you are doing and know before you start. Or? 'If you break it you get to keep the pieces' ;-) Seriously. Look first. It works better that way. Have a good night. -- David signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list
Re: Any hope of KDE 3.5 in F10? I want it too !
Mike Bird wrote: On Fri June 20 2008 18:50:45 David Boles wrote: But you do know that you new distro will switch to KDE 4.0 soon too right? Your definition of soon must be different than mine: Fedora will support KDE 3.5 until approximately December 2008. Kubuntu will support KDE 3.5 until approximately October 2009. Debian will support KDE 3.5 until maybe 2011 or 2012. I'm expecting KDE 4.2 or KDE 4.3 to be suitable for prime time. They should arrive in Fedora in May 2009 and November 2009. That leaves Fedora without support for a prime time KDE for several months. There's no such gap with Debian or Kubuntu. Other distros are also shipping KDE 3.5 alongside KDE 4.x but I haven't analyzed their timetables. Hmm.. I do not use KDE. I'm a GNOME user. So this is really off target for me. By all means do as you wish. Switch or bitch for KDE. But I have seen, on other Fedora lists, all of the efforts being made by the KDE team for 'your' KDE. Helping works much, much better than bitching with community projects. Anyone can bitch. Those that truly care help. Again it is your choice. As I said... I don't use KDE. But I have seen a lot of work by the KDE group. Helping them will do a lot more good than all of these 'me too' complaints. -- David signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list
Re: Any hope of KDE 3.5 in F10?
Kevin Kofler wrote: Mike Bird mgb-fedora at yosemite.net writes: We all make mistakes. Shipping KDE 4.0 in F9 was a mistake. It would be insulting to the members of the Fedora KDE SIG to assume that they would repeat their mistake in F10. Hence the title of this thread. Oh, and I forgot in my previous message: even IF shipping KDE 4.0.3 in F9 was a mistake (which I don't agree it was), that still would not imply that shipping KDE 4.1.x in F10 will also be a mistake, because KDE 4 will have improved by then. Kevin Kofler Take a deep breath Kevin. You did the right thing. This is almost like a troll convention around here. ;-) -- David signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list
Re: Booting F9 with NO X11
Kenneth Lee wrote: id:3:initdefault: --Scott Kidder The problem was, that I could NOT get to a console in order to change the inittab file. I added text to the boot command line so that I could get to a console. It's 3 that is added to the end of the line to boot to level 3. -- David signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list
Re: make thunderbird NOT show html
Roger Heflin wrote: David Boles wrote: Hotmail I would probably agree with, but both gmail and yahoo provide higher end paid for service if you want it, and both yahoo and gmail are sub-contractors for a number of ISP's mail systems. I am on gmail because my ISP's email had enough issues that I kept getting unsubscribed from various lists (I assume because of funny bounces). My ISP has now fixed that issue by making some sort of deal with gmail for gmail to provide their mail service but I might as well use gmail directly since that email address will stay around for a lot longer than the one through the ISP's gmail connection. My story is basically the same as your's Roger. I use gmail POP, with Thunderbird, because my ISP provides poor service and their SPAM filters are crap. I can filter the SPAM here of course, and do filter what gets through, but it annoys me to download it in the first place. It is using Gmail online that causes the rich text. Gmail defaults to that and it is *not* obvious to the writer nor is it clear just how/if it is disabled. For some anyway. As for Ric? Don't mess with him too much. He's crazy. ;-) -- David signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list
Re: make thunderbird NOT show html
Roger Heflin wrote: David Boles wrote: Roger Heflin wrote: On Fri, Jun 6, 2008 at 12:32 PM, Mike Wright [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi all, It seems that there are many clueless people who could never write a web page but seem to feel more than qualified to send html mail. I am tired of squinting at itty bitty fonts that are rendered by Thunderbird whenever it displays html email. (List denizens, please note: html mail gets an instant delete here; you will receive no help from me.) Does anybody know how to make Thunderbird display only the text/plain portion of multipart email? I've set up a filter to delete email with the header Content-Type: text/html but that only catches some of it. A hearty toast to whomever can solve this one. Maybe: view - message body as - plain text And that bad news for us is those clueless people are developers that develop email programs and really don't have a clue what they are doing, but certainly think they do. Roger Roger are you aware that your email is composed in rich text formating? Which is as annoying as html. ;-) Sorry about that. I used Google's webmail interface for that message, and I checked I cannot see any option in the settings to do it any other way (at least all of the time), it kind of looks like you need to hit plain text on a given reply email, and it kind of looks like once you hit plain text (or rich formatting) on any one message it stays that way for all later reply (not exactly how one would have expected the interface to act-or where one would have expected the option to be, and it should still be in settings as that is were it actually belongs for a what appears to be a permanent setting). This one should not be RTF or HTML, I sent it from thunderbird and I am 99% sure it is setup to only send plain text. Roger You did see the ;-) in there correct? Gmail defaults the same way. It is the 'hard line' Linux zealots can be upset. Most of us just move on. You mentioned Yahoo and Thunderbird. There is (was) a TB extension that would pop yahoo mail without paying the 'bucks' for the pop service. If you would like a Gmail account just ask. I can 'invite you' to join. -- David signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list
Re: make thunderbird NOT show html
Roger Heflin wrote: David Boles wrote: Roger Heflin wrote: David Boles wrote: Roger Heflin wrote: On Fri, Jun 6, 2008 at 12:32 PM, Mike Wright [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi all, It seems that there are many clueless people who could never write a web page but seem to feel more than qualified to send html mail. I am tired of squinting at itty bitty fonts that are rendered by Thunderbird whenever it displays html email. (List denizens, please note: html mail gets an instant delete here; you will receive no help from me.) Does anybody know how to make Thunderbird display only the text/plain portion of multipart email? I've set up a filter to delete email with the header Content-Type: text/html but that only catches some of it. A hearty toast to whomever can solve this one. Maybe: view - message body as - plain text And that bad news for us is those clueless people are developers that develop email programs and really don't have a clue what they are doing, but certainly think they do. Roger Roger are you aware that your email is composed in rich text formating? Which is as annoying as html. ;-) Sorry about that. I used Google's webmail interface for that message, and I checked I cannot see any option in the settings to do it any other way (at least all of the time), it kind of looks like you need to hit plain text on a given reply email, and it kind of looks like once you hit plain text (or rich formatting) on any one message it stays that way for all later reply (not exactly how one would have expected the interface to act-or where one would have expected the option to be, and it should still be in settings as that is were it actually belongs for a what appears to be a permanent setting). This one should not be RTF or HTML, I sent it from thunderbird and I am 99% sure it is setup to only send plain text. Roger You did see the ;-) in there correct? Yes, I did, I just agree with your statement about RTF. Gmail defaults the same way. It is the 'hard line' Linux zealots can be upset. Most of us just move on. I am more annoyed that it was not in the settings like it should be, I always go into the settings and setup things like I want them, but it is hard to do when they don't put it in the settings, and hide it someplace else. I do not now about Yahoo. My son uses Yahoo and his emails are RTF. I normally don't see it because I have normally have TB set to plain text. But I have several related business threads at the moment and, unfortunately the 'ladies' sending the emails like colors and graphics. ;-) I wonder how many people actually use the extra formatting for anything actually useful. Typically in corporate email none of the extra crap is used for anything actually useful or often at all so is kind of pointless to even have, often when it is used it actually ends up doing something stupid (too small/large of a font, or setting foreground without setting the background or just the opposite), most of which actually make the message harder to get. You mentioned Yahoo and Thunderbird. There is (was) a TB extension that would pop yahoo mail without paying the 'bucks' for the pop service. I have the Yahoo extension, it appears to work reasonably well. Roger Good. There is always a solution to a problem. Usually the major problem is finding the solution. Have a good evening. -- David signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list
