Re: Blinking lights of death ? Netgear Switch GS108
On Tue, 2009-05-05 at 08:29 -0600, Robin Laing wrote: Another issue is using capacitors that are close to the operating voltage of the system. 12V and use 15V capacitors. This doesn't give any overhead for voltage spikes or surges caused by charging and discharging circuits. For electrolytic capacitors, they're only close to their capacitance when run close to their working voltage. e.g. A 10 microfarad 100 volt capacitor doesn't behave as a 10 microfarad capacitor if you run it at 12 volts. Circuitry should protect against spikes/surges with crowbar circuitry to clamp them down. Though, I really wouldn't expect to see a big spike in a 12 volt circuitry, unless it was a switchmode power supply. -- [...@localhost ~]$ uname -r 2.6.27.21-78.2.41.fc9.i686 Don't send private replies to my address, the mailbox is ignored. I read messages from the public lists. -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: Blinking lights of death ? Netgear Switch GS108
David Liguori wrote: Aldo Foot wrote: On Wed, Apr 29, 2009 at 7:23 PM, Robert L Cochran cochr...@speakeasy.net wrote: One of the more common mechanisms for failure of electrolytic capacitors is too high an ambient temperature over a period of time. Usually the temperature rating is on the cap. You say the room is well-ventilated but that doesn't rule out too high an ambient temperature in a room full of equipment, especially if it was sitting on top of or in a rack full of other equipment. It's more likely to have open rather than short circuited. An ESR (effective series resistance) meter will tell. If you're pretty sure the capacitor is what's ailing it and it's through-hole rather than surface mounted, I would consider it well worth fixing, or even trying if there's greater than a 10% success probability. Many 8-port switches aren't worth fixing below that. Another issue is using capacitors that are close to the operating voltage of the system. 12V and use 15V capacitors. This doesn't give any overhead for voltage spikes or surges caused by charging and discharging circuits. Remember that many circuit boards are multi-layer now so be careful if you are working with a thru-hole circuit board. Have fun. -- Robin Laing -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: Blinking lights of death ? Netgear Switch GS108
Aldo Foot wrote: On Wed, Apr 29, 2009 at 7:23 PM, Robert L Cochran cochr...@speakeasy.net wrote: Has the device firmware been pharmed or simply partly flashed and then a power failure struck? If you would like to donate the unit to me, I'll try to find the time to take a look at it in the next few months. I'm still very much an amateur, and I'd like to try analyzing why the unit is not working and see if I can fix it. This assumes physical damage to the circuit board of some sort. ...snip The only way to be sure it is capacitor plague is to gut the unit and look at the PC board. If you look at the capacitors in it, and one or two are slightly bulged, or have black stuff that looks to be leaking from the bottoms, the device is dead, and should be replaced, unless you are the hacky type and change out the cap's or harvest the good parts off the corpse of the old switch. ~Seann The unit has a blown capacitor, bulged and brown matter around it. Also there is a white-ish powder under the PCB. It looks dirty. There is corrosion. Not sure it's worth fixing. It went on for well over a year working perfectly in a well ventilated room. The unit is for a server at my workplace, so they will replace it. Many years ago, I used to make and fix network cards and switches at some company, so I'll give it a shot myself at fixing this one just for kicks. I very much appreciate your offer to fix this thing --even though there was no warranty implied. :-) Now, I've got to get a more reliable unit to last longer. ~af One of the more common mechanisms for failure of electrolytic capacitors is too high an ambient temperature over a period of time. Usually the temperature rating is on the cap. You say the room is well-ventilated but that doesn't rule out too high an ambient temperature in a room full of equipment, especially if it was sitting on top of or in a rack full of other equipment. It's more likely to have open rather than short circuited. An ESR (effective series resistance) meter will tell. If you're pretty sure the capacitor is what's ailing it and it's through-hole rather than surface mounted, I would consider it well worth fixing, or even trying if there's greater than a 10% success probability. Many 8-port switches aren't worth fixing below that. -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: Blinking lights of death ? Netgear Switch GS108
On 05/04/2009 04:19 PM, David Liguori wrote: Aldo Foot wrote: On Wed, Apr 29, 2009 at 7:23 PM, Robert L Cochran cochr...@speakeasy.net wrote: Has the device firmware been pharmed or simply partly flashed and then a power failure struck? If you would like to donate the unit to me, I'll try to find the time to take a look at it in the next few months. I'm still very much an amateur, and I'd like to try analyzing why the unit is not working and see if I can fix it. This assumes physical damage to the circuit board of some sort. ...snip The only way to be sure it is capacitor plague is to gut the unit and look at the PC board. If you look at the capacitors in it, and one or two are slightly bulged, or have black stuff that looks to be leaking from the bottoms, the device is dead, and should be replaced, unless you are the hacky type and change out the cap's or harvest the good parts off the corpse of the old switch. ~Seann The unit has a blown capacitor, bulged and brown matter around it. Also there is a white-ish powder under the PCB. It looks dirty. There is corrosion. Not sure it's worth fixing. It went on for well over a year working perfectly in a well ventilated room. The unit is for a server at my workplace, so they will replace it. Many years ago, I used to make and fix network cards and switches at some company, so I'll give it a shot myself at fixing this one just for kicks. I very much appreciate your offer to fix this thing --even though there was no warranty implied. :-) Now, I've got to get a more reliable unit to last longer. ~af One of the more common mechanisms for failure of electrolytic capacitors is too high an ambient temperature over a period of time. Usually the temperature rating is on the cap. You say the room is well-ventilated but that doesn't rule out too high an ambient temperature in a room full of equipment, especially if it was sitting on top of or in a rack full of other equipment. It's more likely to have open rather than short circuited. An ESR (effective series resistance) meter will tell. If you're pretty sure the capacitor is what's ailing it and it's through-hole rather than surface mounted, I would consider it well worth fixing, or even trying if there's greater than a 10% success probability. Many 8-port switches aren't worth fixing below that. Nuts and Volts did a photo of the workshop of a highly skilled electronics hobbyist who gets all his stuff from junk piles, then fixes and reuses the items. That is my nature too. It must come from my grandfather. When his sawmill needed a replacement engine, he got one out of a junkyard, refurbished it, and set it to work. It ran beautifully for years to his considerable profit. If you pay little and sell dear, you can't help but profit. Fix it, if possible. Bob -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: Blinking lights of death ? Netgear Switch GS108
On Mon, May 4, 2009 at 1:19 PM, David Liguori liguo...@albany.edu wrote: . You say the room is well-ventilated but that doesn't rule out too high an ambient temperature in a room full of equipment, especially if it was sitting on top of or in a rack full of other equipment. . Alright... where did you put that webcam. :-) You're correct. The ambient temp may be an issue, but only if I keep the door wide open. The switch was placed on top of the server, but the server has plenty of ventilation. I'll take a closer look at this though. If you're pretty sure the capacitor is what's ailing it and it's through-hole rather than surface mounted, I would consider it well worth fixing, or even trying if there's greater than a 10% success probability. Many 8-port switches aren't worth fixing below that. Yeah. It was the cap. It was blown from the top. The rest appeared to be alright... and for that reason I'm reluctant to just toss it out. ~af -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: Blinking lights of death ? Netgear Switch GS108
On Mon, May 4, 2009 at 1:35 PM, Robert L Cochran cochr...@speakeasy.net wrote: Nuts and Volts did a photo of the workshop of a highly skilled electronics hobbyist who gets all his stuff from junk piles, then fixes and reuses the items. That is my nature too. It must come from my grandfather. When his sawmill needed a replacement engine, he got one out of a junkyard, refurbished it, and set it to work. It ran beautifully for years to his considerable profit. If you pay little and sell dear, you can't help but profit. Fix it, if possible. Bob I have a friend who is pretty gifted when it comes to doing manual, mechanical work. It does take some skill and some individuals just have it. ~af -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: Blinking lights of death ? Netgear Switch GS108
Aldo Foot wrote: On Mon, May 4, 2009 at 1:19 PM, David Liguori liguo...@albany.edu wrote: . You say the room is well-ventilated but that doesn't rule out too high an ambient temperature in a room full of equipment, especially if it was sitting on top of or in a rack full of other equipment. . Alright... where did you put that webcam. :-) You're correct. The ambient temp may be an issue, but only if I keep the door wide open. The switch was placed on top of the server, but the server has plenty of ventilation. I'll take a closer look at this though. If you're pretty sure the capacitor is what's ailing it and it's through-hole rather than surface mounted, I would consider it well worth fixing, or even trying if there's greater than a 10% success probability. Many 8-port switches aren't worth fixing below that. Yeah. It was the cap. It was blown from the top. The rest appeared to be alright... and for that reason I'm reluctant to just toss it out. ~af It seems to be common problem with those netgear 8-port switches. I had one 8-port netgear wall mounted and it broke. When I opened it it was clean and fine except one of the capacitors was bulging littlebit. It's still under garantee, but haven't had time to take it in there. What I read from net it's type problem. Saw quite many stories of people fixing it by changing that cap. Too bad. I really liked the steel box and all. -VPK -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: Blinking lights of death ? Netgear Switch GS108
On Mon, 2009-05-04 at 16:19 -0400, David Liguori wrote: One of the more common mechanisms for failure of electrolytic capacitors is too high an ambient temperature over a period of time. Usually the temperature rating is on the cap. You say the room is well-ventilated but that doesn't rule out too high an ambient temperature in a room full of equipment, especially if it was sitting on top of or in a rack full of other equipment. In some cases, perhaps many, regulating room temperature still doesn't help you, as the device has inadequate cooling in itself (no fans, or no grilles, or insufficient ones). -- [...@localhost ~]$ uname -r 2.6.27.21-78.2.41.fc9.i686 Don't send private replies to my address, the mailbox is ignored. I read messages from the public lists. -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
[OT] electronic books. was; Re: Blinking lights of death ? Netgear Switch GS108
max wrote: What's a good electronics book? I'm looking for a beginner to intermediate skill level type book. a good question. i can only answer with, i started reading electronic books in library at around age of 9. i started working part time in a radio/tv repair shop at 13. correspondence course with rca at 14, electronics in usaf at 20. semiconductor manuals at 23, logic manuals at 28, oem cpu tech manuals at 34, and now reading on line at age 68 and still learning, it is difficult to say what i might consider 'beginner to intermediate'. best answer to give you is just go to local library and look up titles and start reading. today, there are so many 'beginner' books, it is not an easy question to answer. if you are in school and they have any course in electronics, ask what they use. or check with local college to see what they use. regardless of what you find, there is nothing wrong with finding several books and read them, because the more you read, the wider the range will be in your learning. i wish i could give you a more definitive answer, as it has been too long from when i started and i am still learning. if you have any further questioning along this subject, please contact me off list and i will reply. to continue such in this thread or thru this list, is not in keeping with etiquette policy of this tech support list. thank you. -- peace out. tc,hago. g . in a free world without fences, who needs gates. ** help microsoft stamp out piracy - give linux to a friend today ** to mess up a linux box, you need to work at it; to mess up an ms windows box, you just need to *look at* it. ** learn linux: 'Rute User's Tutorial and Exposition' http://rute.2038bug.com/index.html 'The Linux Documentation Project' http://www.tldp.org/ 'LDP HOWTO-index' http://www.tldp.org/HOWTO/HOWTO-INDEX/index.html 'HowtoForge' http://howtoforge.com/ signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: Blinking lights of death ? Netgear Switch GS108
g wrote: Robert L Cochran wrote: On 04/30/2009 02:47 PM, Aldo Foot wrote: snip The unit has a blown capacitor, bulged and brown matter around it. Also there is snip You probably have Chinese- or Taiwanese-manufactured capacitors in that unit, which are not as reliable as Japanese-manufactured capacitors. If you search the net you will find lists of known-unreliable capacitor manufacturers. robert, aldo, if you run a google search for 'bad caps' or 'bad capacitors', you will find a large hit score. most of hits will relate to a stolen recipe for capacitors that was missing all ingredients. it is primarily in asian countries and mainly lower level companies. this hit mainly with mainboards and power supplies, along with other hardware that use low cost capacitors. this problems has pretty well ended, but when you make repair, do use a high quality brand. radio shack does not fall with in high quality definition. order from a local supplier, or a well know catalog supplier. small adds in back of electronic magazines do not qualify. also, be sure you check diodes as caps are known to take them out also. when you clean board, be sure you get all of crud off board and hope that no hidden corrosion has started. yes. i am a 'hardware head' and i have seen this problem, even with an abit mainboard of my own. much luck. Digikey (http://www.digikey.com/) has good capacitors and a good selection at decent prices, and a little research on the bad brands will help you find more on that. For electronics, on the chip side, octapart is a good resource as well (http://octopart.com/) ~Seann smime.p7s Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: [OT] electronic books. was; Re: Blinking lights of death ? Netgear Switch GS108
g wrote: max wrote: What's a good question. if you have my apoligies to list for my 'ot' reply. my apoligies to max for my chastising close. my reply should have consisted of simple 'please contact me off list'. first coffee had not 'done it's thing'. :) -- peace out. tc,hago. g . in a free world without fences, who needs gates. ** help microsoft stamp out piracy - give linux to a friend today ** to mess up a linux box, you need to work at it; to mess up an ms windows box, you just need to *look at* it. ** learn linux: 'Rute User's Tutorial and Exposition' http://rute.2038bug.com/index.html 'The Linux Documentation Project' http://www.tldp.org/ 'LDP HOWTO-index' http://www.tldp.org/HOWTO/HOWTO-INDEX/index.html 'HowtoForge' http://howtoforge.com/ signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: Blinking lights of death ? Netgear Switch GS108
g wrote: Robert L Cochran wrote: On 04/30/2009 02:47 PM, Aldo Foot wrote: snip The unit has a blown capacitor, bulged and brown matter around it. Also there is snip You probably have Chinese- or Taiwanese-manufactured capacitors in that unit, which are not as reliable as Japanese-manufactured capacitors. If you search the net you will find lists of known-unreliable capacitor manufacturers. robert, aldo, if you run a google search for 'bad caps' or 'bad capacitors', you will find a large hit score. most of hits will relate to a stolen recipe for capacitors that was missing all ingredients. it is primarily in asian countries and mainly lower level companies. this hit mainly with mainboards and power supplies, along with other hardware that use low cost capacitors. this problems has pretty well ended, but when you make repair, do use a high quality brand. radio shack does not fall with in high quality definition. order from a local supplier, or a well know catalog supplier. small adds in back of electronic magazines do not qualify. also, be sure you check diodes as caps are known to take them out also. when you clean board, be sure you get all of crud off board and hope that no hidden corrosion has started. yes. i am a 'hardware head' and i have seen this problem, even with an abit mainboard of my own. much luck. I just had a Dell computer fail due to capacitor issues. I use DigiKey for my parts as they are fast and reasonable. They don't carry all types of parts though. As for spending the money and time to fix a low cost switch is not worth it except for experience. Search the net for electronic tutorials. There are many. Also look in the second hand stores for home electronic kits. I found one for my daughter that uses springs to join the wires. Teaches basic electronics without all the hassle of getting parts. There are simulator circuits available and they are getting easier to use. Fedora 11 will have a software group for electronics. :) I purchased a Nerdkit for learning about microcontrollers. Not a bad investment. -- Robin Laing -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: Blinking lights of death ? Netgear Switch GS108
Robin Laing wrote: Fedora 11 will have a software group for electronics. :) fel, already out, tho a specific field, is a very good release for circuit design. -- peace out. tc,hago. g . in a free world without fences, who needs gates. ** help microsoft stamp out piracy - give linux to a friend today ** to mess up a linux box, you need to work at it; to mess up an ms windows box, you just need to *look at* it. ** learn linux: 'Rute User's Tutorial and Exposition' http://rute.2038bug.com/index.html 'The Linux Documentation Project' http://www.tldp.org/ 'LDP HOWTO-index' http://www.tldp.org/HOWTO/HOWTO-INDEX/index.html 'HowtoForge' http://howtoforge.com/ signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: [OT] electronic books. was; Re: Blinking lights of death ? Netgear Switch GS108
On Fri, 2009-05-01 at 14:03 +, g wrote: max wrote: What's a good electronics book? I'm looking for a beginner to intermediate skill level type book. a good question. i can only answer with, i started reading electronic books in library at around age of 9. i started working part time in a radio/tv repair shop at 13. correspondence course with rca at 14, electronics in usaf at 20. semiconductor manuals at 23, logic manuals at 28, oem cpu tech manuals at 34, and now reading on line at age 68 and still learning, it is difficult to say what i might consider 'beginner to intermediate'. best answer to give you is just go to local library and look up titles and start reading. today, there are so many 'beginner' books, it is not an easy question to answer. if you are in school and they have any course in electronics, ask what they use. or check with local college to see what they use. regardless of what you find, there is nothing wrong with finding several books and read them, because the more you read, the wider the range will be in your learning. i wish i could give you a more definitive answer, as it has been too long from when i started and i am still learning. if you have any further questioning along this subject, please contact me off list and i will reply. to continue such in this thread or thru this list, is not in keeping with etiquette policy of this tech support list. thank you. -- G is right on all counts. I would add that the brain is marvelous at relating information. If you read enough, even with little understanding, the common information will begin to become coherent and you will learn. That said, if you start with a few beginner articles, and please do the exercises they have, you will learn. The exercises are important to lock the information with the potential errors that you will encounter, and the effort needed to correct them. Like G, I started a long time ago, from vacuum tubes, and while the circuits have changed, the elements of design and software have not. Almost everything I ever learned has benefited me. Go for it! Regards, Les H -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: Blinking lights of death ? Netgear Switch GS108
On Fri, May 1, 2009 at 9:33 AM, Robin Laing robin.la...@drdc-rddc.gc.ca wrote: As for spending the money and time to fix a low cost switch is not worth it except for experience. I agree. I'd do it more for the sake of being green and not waste 90% of the unit. I learned that small units like the one I have will eventually die. It's just a matter of time. It appears to be specially true if all the ports are used 24/7, which is my case. High transfer rates create heat, which causes the caps to blow. Who knows, maybe they are made to be that way, so we keep the manufacturers in business... keep buying switches. There are simulator circuits available and they are getting easier to use. Fedora 11 will have a software group for electronics. :) That will be interesting. I have a friend or two who will find that useful. I purchased a Nerdkit for learning about microcontrollers. Not a bad investment. Looks like a great toy to use for learning. I'll go to Frys to see what they have. thanks everyone for the great ideas. ~af -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: [OT] electronic books. was; Re: Blinking lights of death ? Netgear Switch GS108
Les wrote: I would add that the brain is marvelous at relating information. snip will encounter, and the effort needed to correct them. this is true. Like G, I started a long time ago, from vacuum tubes, how long before your finger prints came back? :) Almost everything I ever learned has benefited me. almost? -- peace out. tc,hago. g . in a free world without fences, who needs gates. ** help microsoft stamp out piracy - give linux to a friend today ** to mess up a linux box, you need to work at it; to mess up an ms windows box, you just need to *look at* it. ** learn linux: 'Rute User's Tutorial and Exposition' http://rute.2038bug.com/index.html 'The Linux Documentation Project' http://www.tldp.org/ 'LDP HOWTO-index' http://www.tldp.org/HOWTO/HOWTO-INDEX/index.html 'HowtoForge' http://howtoforge.com/ signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: [OT] electronic books. was; Re: Blinking lights of death ? Netgear Switch GS108
On Fri, May 1, 2009 at 11:07 AM, Les hlhow...@pacbell.net wrote: G is right on all counts. ... That said, if you start with a few beginner articles, and please do the exercises they have, you will learn. The exercises are important to lock the information with the potential errors that you will encounter, and the effort needed to correct them. The problem is that today, just about anyone publishes a book about anything and they become repetitive or just rewords of another title. Finding good beginner's material is not easy. If I had the time, I'd go to some community college to take a class or two. Like G, I started a long time ago, from vacuum tubes, and while the circuits have changed, the elements of design and software have not. Almost everything I ever learned has benefited me. Man... you guys actually saw the birth of computers. It's like having been present at moment of the Big Bang. I can only imagine you blowing up light bulbs in the garage. :-) ~af -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: [OT] electronic books. was; Re: Blinking lights of death ? Netgear Switch GS108
On Fri, 2009-05-01 at 12:24 -0700, Aldo Foot wrote: Man... you guys actually saw the birth of computers. It's like having been present at moment of the Big Bang. I can only imagine you blowing up light bulbs in the garage. :-) Printing his own Holerith cards. Breadboarding his first personal computer... ;-) Laughing at Windows *KNOWING* why it's so bad... -- [...@localhost ~]$ uname -r 2.6.27.21-78.2.41.fc9.i686 Don't send private replies to my address, the mailbox is ignored. I read messages from the public lists. -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: [OT] electronic books. was; Re: Blinking lights of death ? Netgear Switch GS108
Tim wrote: Printing his own Holerith cards. Breadboarding his first personal computer... ;-) Laughing at Windows *KNOWING* why it's so bad... i did do a lot of breadboarding with logic circuits and my first micro was a z80 starter kit that i built to learn machine code. actually i laughed at gates before he stoled windows concept from apple, because he stoled dos from digital research. -- peace out. tc,hago. g . in a free world without fences, who needs gates. ** help microsoft stamp out piracy - give linux to a friend today ** to mess up a linux box, you need to work at it; to mess up an ms windows box, you just need to *look at* it. ** learn linux: 'Rute User's Tutorial and Exposition' http://rute.2038bug.com/index.html 'The Linux Documentation Project' http://www.tldp.org/ 'LDP HOWTO-index' http://www.tldp.org/HOWTO/HOWTO-INDEX/index.html 'HowtoForge' http://howtoforge.com/ signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: Blinking lights of death ? Netgear Switch GS108
Tim wrote: Just because it's not a mainframe doesn't mean that it doesn't need special computer airconditioning to keep it cool... you got that right. first thing i add to my own and clients' computers is at least 1 extra fan. i even remove power supply and remount fan to draw air out instead of in. i have not tried liquid cooling yet, but when i get a dual amd, i will go liquid all the way. box i am on now has 1 4 in lower front, 1 3 fan center of rear drawing in to exhaust thru ps unit, standard vents and floppy and tape decks. exhaust temp is seldom over 85f near bottom and 90f at top. sensors is showing m/b 44c and cpu 30c. current ambient is 80f. -- peace out. tc,hago. g . in a free world without fences, who needs gates. ** help microsoft stamp out piracy - give linux to a friend today ** to mess up a linux box, you need to work at it; to mess up an ms windows box, you just need to *look at* it. ** learn linux: 'Rute User's Tutorial and Exposition' http://rute.2038bug.com/index.html 'The Linux Documentation Project' http://www.tldp.org/ 'LDP HOWTO-index' http://www.tldp.org/HOWTO/HOWTO-INDEX/index.html 'HowtoForge' http://howtoforge.com/ signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: [OT] electronic books. was; Re: Blinking lights of death ? Netgear Switch GS108
Aldo Foot wrote: Man... you guys actually saw the birth of computers. It's like having been present at moment of the Big Bang. it was. i started reading with 4004 oem manual. i still get a bang out of playing with them. i say 'play' because i enjoy what i do and it is no way near what i call work. I can only imagine you blowing up light bulbs in the garage. :-) light bulbs, hell. if you want some fun, throw rocks a a picture tube dud from an old tv. :) when ic's came along, fun was taking an ic that had gone bad for what ever reason and throw 50v on it's power input. blows package right off. :) -- peace out. tc,hago. g . in a free world without fences, who needs gates. ** help microsoft stamp out piracy - give linux to a friend today ** to mess up a linux box, you need to work at it; to mess up an ms windows box, you just need to *look at* it. ** learn linux: 'Rute User's Tutorial and Exposition' http://rute.2038bug.com/index.html 'The Linux Documentation Project' http://www.tldp.org/ 'LDP HOWTO-index' http://www.tldp.org/HOWTO/HOWTO-INDEX/index.html 'HowtoForge' http://howtoforge.com/ signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: Blinking lights of death ? Netgear Switch GS108
On Fri, 2009-05-01 at 11:41 -0700, Aldo Foot wrote: I learned that small units like the one I have will eventually die. It's just a matter of time. It appears to be specially true if all the ports are used 24/7, which is my case. High transfer rates create heat, which causes the caps to blow. Who knows, maybe they are made to be that way, so we keep the manufacturers in business... keep buying switches. Just because it's not a mainframe doesn't mean that it doesn't need special computer airconditioning to keep it cool... The bad design of personal computers, and peripherals, is rather awful. You have devices that get very hot, and few of them seem to have been designed to manage it, even fewer to cope with not having optimum airflow through the thing. Where does a PC tower go? On the floor, sucking up fluff and muck. Where does a desktop box go? Pushed up against the wall, blocking the vents, mangling the connectors, being crushed by a monitor on top of it. Or either of them shoved inside a desk, roasting because it's a box in a box. -- [...@localhost ~]$ uname -r 2.6.27.21-78.2.41.fc9.i686 Don't send private replies to my address, the mailbox is ignored. I read messages from the public lists. -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: [OT] electronic books. was; Re: Blinking lights of death ? Netgear Switch GS108
On Friday 01 May 2009, Aldo Foot wrote: On Fri, May 1, 2009 at 11:07 AM, Les hlhow...@pacbell.net wrote: G is right on all counts. ... That said, if you start with a few beginner articles, and please do the exercises they have, you will learn. The exercises are important to lock the information with the potential errors that you will encounter, and the effort needed to correct them. The problem is that today, just about anyone publishes a book about anything and they become repetitive or just rewords of another title. Finding good beginner's material is not easy. If I had the time, I'd go to some community college to take a class or two. As another genuine old fart, I'll heartily second that. And to an extent, I'll blame the legal morass our copyright laws are in today. Simply put, no one can write a beginners manual in modern language without running afoul of some copyrights that could even belong to the Harold Ennis Estate. We have well and truly shot ourselves a bit higher than the foot with this stuff. Like G, I started a long time ago, from vacuum tubes, and while the circuits have changed, the elements of design and software have not. Almost everything I ever learned has benefited me. So did I, I was born in 34, and by VJ day in '45 was playing with vacuum tubes, and by '51 I was fixing all the tv's the dealers couldn't fix in Iowa and the north half of Missouri for a living. At the A.A. Schneiderhahn Co. in Des Moines IA., for an after taxes check of $77 every two weeks. But inflation soon made that less than appetizing so just short of a year I was looking for more money, faster horses, older whiskey younger women. But the song hadn't been written yet! Man... you guys actually saw the birth of computers. It's like having been present at moment of the Big Bang. I can only imagine you blowing up light bulbs in the garage. :-) Yup, it was fun then, but our knowledge base then was something one could comprehend with diligence, now, particularly if ones interests are 'eclectic', there is no way in hell you can be a generalist, although I have to admit I try. That knowledge base is now about 100,000 times the size it was in 1950. Or even more than that, I've not seen any recent figures. -- Cheers, Gene There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order. -Ed Howdershelt (Author) Some of my readers ask me what a Serial Port is. The answer is: I don't know. Is it some kind of wine you have with breakfast? -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: Blinking lights of death ? Netgear Switch GS108
On Wed, Apr 29, 2009 at 7:23 PM, Robert L Cochran cochr...@speakeasy.net wrote: Has the device firmware been pharmed or simply partly flashed and then a power failure struck? If you would like to donate the unit to me, I'll try to find the time to take a look at it in the next few months. I'm still very much an amateur, and I'd like to try analyzing why the unit is not working and see if I can fix it. This assumes physical damage to the circuit board of some sort. ...snip The only way to be sure it is capacitor plague is to gut the unit and look at the PC board. If you look at the capacitors in it, and one or two are slightly bulged, or have black stuff that looks to be leaking from the bottoms, the device is dead, and should be replaced, unless you are the hacky type and change out the cap's or harvest the good parts off the corpse of the old switch. ~Seann The unit has a blown capacitor, bulged and brown matter around it. Also there is a white-ish powder under the PCB. It looks dirty. There is corrosion. Not sure it's worth fixing. It went on for well over a year working perfectly in a well ventilated room. The unit is for a server at my workplace, so they will replace it. Many years ago, I used to make and fix network cards and switches at some company, so I'll give it a shot myself at fixing this one just for kicks. I very much appreciate your offer to fix this thing --even though there was no warranty implied. :-) Now, I've got to get a more reliable unit to last longer. ~af -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: Blinking lights of death ? Netgear Switch GS108
On 04/30/2009 02:47 PM, Aldo Foot wrote: On Wed, Apr 29, 2009 at 7:23 PM, Robert L Cochran cochr...@speakeasy.net wrote: Has the device firmware been pharmed or simply partly flashed and then a power failure struck? If you would like to donate the unit to me, I'll try to find the time to take a look at it in the next few months. I'm still very much an amateur, and I'd like to try analyzing why the unit is not working and see if I can fix it. This assumes physical damage to the circuit board of some sort. ...snip The only way to be sure it is capacitor plague is to gut the unit and look at the PC board. If you look at the capacitors in it, and one or two are slightly bulged, or have black stuff that looks to be leaking from the bottoms, the device is dead, and should be replaced, unless you are the hacky type and change out the cap's or harvest the good parts off the corpse of the old switch. ~Seann The unit has a blown capacitor, bulged and brown matter around it. Also there is a white-ish powder under the PCB. It looks dirty. There is corrosion. Not sure it's worth fixing. It went on for well over a year working perfectly in a well ventilated room. The unit is for a server at my workplace, so they will replace it. Many years ago, I used to make and fix network cards and switches at some company, so I'll give it a shot myself at fixing this one just for kicks. I very much appreciate your offer to fix this thing --even though there was no warranty implied. :-) Now, I've got to get a more reliable unit to last longer. ~af You probably have Chinese- or Taiwanese-manufactured capacitors in that unit, which are not as reliable as Japanese-manufactured capacitors. If you search the net you will find lists of known-unreliable capacitor manufacturers. Bob -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: Blinking lights of death ? Netgear Switch GS108
Robert L Cochran wrote: On 04/30/2009 02:47 PM, Aldo Foot wrote: snip The unit has a blown capacitor, bulged and brown matter around it. Also there is snip You probably have Chinese- or Taiwanese-manufactured capacitors in that unit, which are not as reliable as Japanese-manufactured capacitors. If you search the net you will find lists of known-unreliable capacitor manufacturers. robert, aldo, if you run a google search for 'bad caps' or 'bad capacitors', you will find a large hit score. most of hits will relate to a stolen recipe for capacitors that was missing all ingredients. it is primarily in asian countries and mainly lower level companies. this hit mainly with mainboards and power supplies, along with other hardware that use low cost capacitors. this problems has pretty well ended, but when you make repair, do use a high quality brand. radio shack does not fall with in high quality definition. order from a local supplier, or a well know catalog supplier. small adds in back of electronic magazines do not qualify. also, be sure you check diodes as caps are known to take them out also. when you clean board, be sure you get all of crud off board and hope that no hidden corrosion has started. yes. i am a 'hardware head' and i have seen this problem, even with an abit mainboard of my own. much luck. -- peace out. tc,hago. g . in a free world without fences, who needs gates. ** help microsoft stamp out piracy - give linux to a friend today ** to mess up a linux box, you need to work at it; to mess up an ms windows box, you just need to *look at* it. ** learn linux: 'Rute User's Tutorial and Exposition' http://rute.2038bug.com/index.html 'The Linux Documentation Project' http://www.tldp.org/ 'LDP HOWTO-index' http://www.tldp.org/HOWTO/HOWTO-INDEX/index.html 'HowtoForge' http://howtoforge.com/ signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: Blinking lights of death ? Netgear Switch GS108
On Fri, May 01, 2009 at 03:18:26AM +, g wrote: yes. i am a 'hardware head' and i have seen this problem, even with an abit mainboard of my own. What's a good electronics book? I'm looking for a beginner to intermediate skill level type book. -- Any fool can know. The point is to understand --Albert Einstein Bored?? http://fiction.wikia.com/wiki/Fuqwit1.0 http://fiction.wikia.com/wiki/Coding_the_Magic_into_the_Eight_Ball -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Blinking lights of death ? Netgear Switch GS108
I have this Netgear Switch GS108 that has apparently failed. Before I buy a new one I'd like to know whether this is known issue with this type of unit or Netgear hardware in general. This unit I have is an 8-port switch. I perused some reading here and there and they point out to faulty capacitors in the unit. The fault causes what they call Blinking lights of death, that is, all lights blink on and off repeatedly. Unplugging the unit and plugging it back in unit does nothing. Any network hardware experts know about this? TIA, ~af -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: Blinking lights of death ? Netgear Switch GS108
Aldo Foot wrote: I have this Netgear Switch GS108 that has apparently failed. Before I buy a new one I'd like to know whether this is known issue with this type of unit or Netgear hardware in general. This unit I have is an 8-port switch. I perused some reading here and there and they point out to faulty capacitors in the unit. The fault causes what they call Blinking lights of death, that is, all lights blink on and off repeatedly. Unplugging the unit and plugging it back in unit does nothing. Any network hardware experts know about this? TIA, ~af The only way to be sure it is capacitor plague is to gut the unit and look at the PC board. If you look at the capacitors in it, and one or two are slightly bulged, or have black stuff that looks to be leaking from the bottoms, the device is dead, and should be replaced, unless you are the hacky type and change out the cap's or harvest the good parts off the corpse of the old switch. ~Seann smime.p7s Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: Blinking lights of death ? Netgear Switch GS108
Has the device firmware been pharmed or simply partly flashed and then a power failure struck? If you would like to donate the unit to me, I'll try to find the time to take a look at it in the next few months. I'm still very much an amateur, and I'd like to try analyzing why the unit is not working and see if I can fix it. This assumes physical damage to the circuit board of some sort. This would be with the understanding that both the unit and the power supply brick are a donation to me, and are not items sent to me for commercial repair. I'm not that good yet! There should be no expectation of getting the unit back. I might brick it. I might make a big smelly puddle of molten circuit board. I could easily be its utter ruination! Also, the amateur examination/amateur diagnosis/amateur repair effort would be done on my own time and at a time I choose. Right now, I do have some very sick people in my family, and it might be a couple months before I can work on the unit. Now lets suppose that through some miracle, I actually manage to fix the device. In that case, I'll ship it back to you at my expense, and at no other charge to you. I'll consider myself richer for the fun of trying to fix it and succeeding. Again, have no expectation of this happening. I can't estimate how sufficient my lowly skills are. Then again, Netgear's construction techniques probably need improving! I'm willing to pay for shipping and handling. If all the above is acceptable, contact me off list and we can discuss it more. Bob On 04/29/2009 09:18 PM, Seann Clark wrote: Aldo Foot wrote: I have this Netgear Switch GS108 that has apparently failed. Before I buy a new one I'd like to know whether this is known issue with this type of unit or Netgear hardware in general. This unit I have is an 8-port switch. I perused some reading here and there and they point out to faulty capacitors in the unit. The fault causes what they call Blinking lights of death, that is, all lights blink on and off repeatedly. Unplugging the unit and plugging it back in unit does nothing. Any network hardware experts know about this? TIA, ~af The only way to be sure it is capacitor plague is to gut the unit and look at the PC board. If you look at the capacitors in it, and one or two are slightly bulged, or have black stuff that looks to be leaking from the bottoms, the device is dead, and should be replaced, unless you are the hacky type and change out the cap's or harvest the good parts off the corpse of the old switch. ~Seann -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
