Re: Evolution with mapi plugin?
On Tue, 2008-12-16 at 20:20 -0700, Christopher A. Williams wrote: > And apparently, neither has the attitudes of the "why do I need to > send HTML messages" crowd. Nor those of the "I shall define what you see" crowd... >From time to time I receive a, shall we say, "formatted" message. Which either the author first started producing bad desktop publishing newsletters, and never progressed (the typist equivalent of gouging out your message with crayons), or just doesn't understand that all computers are not the same (weird colours, unreadable font decisions, strange fonts that get replaced by wildly inappropriate non-equivalents, unreal paper sizes, margins past the edges of paper, etc., abound. Even when a MSOE user receives a message from another MSOE user, there's still no guarantee that it'll display well. And the problems just compound when there's different mail clients used between sender and recipient. There's a very practical aspect to using deliberately basic HTML—define the contents of the contents, and let the viewer display it well. Though, unfortunately, even that fails, when you have typists who can't tell the difference between a paragraph and a list, typists who make each line of text its own paragraph, editors which code HTML badly, and email that makes it even worse (e.g. why the hell is there an empty table inserted in the middle of that email, etc.). I think more effort in good display of received messages is warranted before we get into composing. And then, something other than HTML does a better job at presenting a preformatted message in the way the author hoped. PDF is designed for such things, HTML is designed *not* to be. Even HTML + CSS is not designed to give DTP-like rendering control. But I think you're arguing with the wrong crowd. Evolution is an external project, it's just *used* here. You need to argue upstream about improving it, or provide the improvements. -- [...@localhost ~]$ uname -r 2.6.27.7-53.fc9.i686 Don't send private replies to my address, the mailbox is ignored. I read messages from the public lists. -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: Evolution with mapi plugin?
On Wed, 2008-12-17 at 11:14 -0600, Bruno Wolff III wrote: > Generally I only find top posting useful when copying an existing > thread to a new person and I want to give a summary or explaination of > what they are being copied with. That's called forwarding, you're giving an introduction. Where the reply/replies go defines the posting style. But I detect a diversionary tactic has been employed on this thread... -- [...@localhost ~]$ uname -r 2.6.27.7-53.fc9.i686 Don't send private replies to my address, the mailbox is ignored. I read messages from the public lists. -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: Evolution with mapi plugin?
Christopher A. Williams wrote: Some businesses have now intentionally modified their email clients to NOT render RTF and HTML, and have made it such that to enable them is a firing violation of company policy. i.e. don't count on being able to say "the blue text in bullet three is the important part" anymore. ...And we all know that, while such exceptions exist, they are indeed the exceptions and not the general rule. In fact the only CIO positions I know of that would border on such a policy are US Navy. In the corporate world, such a policy would likely get the CIO fired by the CEO and the Board... And in the places where it didn't, the typical email would just become a word or excel attachment instead of html. -- Les Mikesell lesmikes...@gmail.com -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: Evolution with mapi plugin?
On Thu, 2008-12-18 at 10:06 +1930, Patrick O'Callaghan wrote: > On Thu, Dec 18, 2008 at 6:45 AM, Christopher A. Williams > wrote: > > I agree there are a bunch of other things that need to be fixed in Evo > > besides a good HTML composer, but that doesn't make the need any less of a > > problem. > > I understand it is a problem for some, but the stability problems > affect everyone. Unfortunately a lot of devel effort these days seems > to be focussed on Exchange compatibility, another issue which is > vitally important for some users but of no interest at all to others, > including myself. So it goes. I still use Evo because I like most of > the bits I use (essentially just the mail component) but I'm > increasingly inclined to jump ship to Claws or the new Tbird. The day > the cost of changing becomes less than the benefit, ciao Evo. Indeed..! Same goes for me. I am watching the new Tbird with quite a bit of interest. > > I heard rumors that a newer composer plugin for Evo may be in the works > > somewhere, but haven't heard anything official on it. We'll see. > > Perhaps you mean this (not actually a plugin but a rewrite): > http://www.go-evolution.org/New_Composer. This is already in 2.24 and > apparently will be improved, so maybe you'll get your wish. I have seen this page before and was hoping it would be more than it is. It most certainly is a part of 2.24, and an improvement as well, but still lacks the key functionality I've mentioned thus far. It says they are feature complete. If so, we need better still. -- == "Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." -- Albert Einstein -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: Evolution with mapi plugin?
On Wed, 2008-12-17 at 10:30 -0500, Todd Denniston wrote: > Christopher A. Williams wrote, On 12/17/2008 06:15 AM: > > I guess you have the privilege of not having to deal with "the great > > unwashed" who routinely send and want to receive HTML e-mail. They also > > don't know that the business norm (imposed originally bu MS Outlook) of > > top-posting is also bad email etiquette. Hope you don't have to deal > > with them either, but most of the one I deal with have titles that start > > with the letter "C" or "V" - and they write very big checks. They are > > less inclined to write one with your name on it if you openly refuse to > > communicate in the language and style they are accustomed to... > > Except when the CIO of the community you are talking about has decided that > from a security standpoint having an email client render RTF and HTML have > become unsafe. > > Some businesses have now intentionally modified their email clients to NOT > render RTF and HTML, and have made it such that to enable them is a firing > violation of company policy. > > i.e. don't count on being able to say "the blue text in bullet three is the > important part" anymore. ...And we all know that, while such exceptions exist, they are indeed the exceptions and not the general rule. In fact the only CIO positions I know of that would border on such a policy are US Navy. In the corporate world, such a policy would likely get the CIO fired by the CEO and the Board... -- == "Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." -- Albert Einstein -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: Evolution with mapi plugin?
On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 11:01:37 -0600, Frank Cox wrote: > On Wed, 17 Dec 2008 08:52:21 -0800 > Wayne Feick wrote: > > > Can someone fill me in on why they prefer bottom posting? > > Top posting is generally used in direct business or personal correspondence. > I > send you a message, you put your reply on top of that and send it back to me. > The theory is that you and I already know what we're talking about. Yuck. You might as well skip including the message in that case. Generally I only find top posting useful when copying an existing thread to a new person and I want to give a summary or explaination of what they are being copied with. -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: Evolution with mapi plugin?
On Wed, 17 Dec 2008 08:52:21 -0800 Wayne Feick wrote: > Can someone fill me in on why they prefer bottom posting? Top posting is generally used in direct business or personal correspondence. I send you a message, you put your reply on top of that and send it back to me. The theory is that you and I already know what we're talking about. In newsgroup and mailing list postings, on the other hand, the convention is to put your reply at the bottom or in-line with the original message, and the original message is ideally trimmed to the minimum required to keep the flow of the "conversation" going. The idea here is that posts are intended to be read and comprehended by people other than the ones who are directly involved in the exchange. Accordingly, it makes the most sense to create a message that can be read from the top to the bottom in chronological order. -- MELVILLE THEATRE ~ Melville Sask ~ http://www.melvilletheatre.com DRY CLEANER BUSINESS FOR SALE ~ http://www.canadadrycleanerforsale.com -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: Evolution with mapi plugin?
On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 08:52:21 -0800, Wayne Feick wrote: > On Wed, 2008-12-17 at 04:15 -0700, Christopher A. Williams wrote: > > Middle posting can be really useful as well, when responding to > someone's comments point by point. > > Can someone fill me in on why they prefer bottom posting? I don't think bottom is meant to be post everything at the bottom, but rather below relevant quoted text. And you are supposed to trim text that isn't relevant. -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: Evolution with mapi plugin?
On Wed, 2008-12-17 at 04:15 -0700, Christopher A. Williams wrote: > I guess you have the privilege of not having to deal with "the great > unwashed" who routinely send and want to receive HTML e-mail. They also > don't know that the business norm (imposed originally bu MS Outlook) of > top-posting is also bad email etiquette. Sorry to hijack the thread a little bit but I just don't understand why people are so militant about bottom posting being the one true way to respond to email. Personally, I prefer top posting because when reading through an email thread it's annoying to have to page down on every message to get past the stuff I've already read in a previous message. Particularly so on this list, where people include a page or two of a previous post, and add only a sentence or two of followup comment. Middle posting can be really useful as well, when responding to someone's comments point by point. Can someone fill me in on why they prefer bottom posting? Wayne. -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: Evolution with mapi plugin?
Christopher A. Williams wrote, On 12/17/2008 06:15 AM: I guess you have the privilege of not having to deal with "the great unwashed" who routinely send and want to receive HTML e-mail. They also don't know that the business norm (imposed originally bu MS Outlook) of top-posting is also bad email etiquette. Hope you don't have to deal with them either, but most of the one I deal with have titles that start with the letter "C" or "V" - and they write very big checks. They are less inclined to write one with your name on it if you openly refuse to communicate in the language and style they are accustomed to... Except when the CIO of the community you are talking about has decided that from a security standpoint having an email client render RTF and HTML have become unsafe. Some businesses have now intentionally modified their email clients to NOT render RTF and HTML, and have made it such that to enable them is a firing violation of company policy. i.e. don't count on being able to say "the blue text in bullet three is the important part" anymore. -- Todd Denniston Crane Division, Naval Surface Warfare Center (NSWC Crane) Harnessing the Power of Technology for the Warfighter -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: Evolution with mapi plugin?
On Thu, Dec 18, 2008 at 6:45 AM, Christopher A. Williams wrote: > I agree there are a bunch of other things that need to be fixed in Evo > besides a good HTML composer, but that doesn't make the need any less of a > problem. I understand it is a problem for some, but the stability problems affect everyone. Unfortunately a lot of devel effort these days seems to be focussed on Exchange compatibility, another issue which is vitally important for some users but of no interest at all to others, including myself. So it goes. I still use Evo because I like most of the bits I use (essentially just the mail component) but I'm increasingly inclined to jump ship to Claws or the new Tbird. The day the cost of changing becomes less than the benefit, ciao Evo. > I guess you have the privilege of not having to deal with "the great > unwashed" who routinely send and want to receive HTML e-mail. They also > don't know that the business norm (imposed originally bu MS Outlook) of > top-posting is also bad email etiquette. Hope you don't have to deal > with them either, but most of the one I deal with have titles that start > with the letter "C" or "V" - and they write very big checks. They are > less inclined to write one with your name on it if you openly refuse to > communicate in the language and style they are accustomed to... I'm not unsympathetic to people in this situation. > I heard rumors that a newer composer plugin for Evo may be in the works > somewhere, but haven't heard anything official on it. We'll see. Perhaps you mean this (not actually a plugin but a rewrite): http://www.go-evolution.org/New_Composer. This is already in 2.24 and apparently will be improved, so maybe you'll get your wish. poc -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: Evolution with mapi plugin?
On Tue, Dec 16, 2008 at 20:20:33 -0700, "Christopher A. Williams" wrote: > So yes - The Evo HTML composer absolutely should be "more complete". In > its current state, it is absolutely among the worst of those available > in Linux based e-mail clients. But I suppose if you don't care what font > gets selected for you, only use bold and italic from time to time, and > like big, round circles for unordered lists (or 1's for ordered lists), > I guess it would be OK or even pretty good... The recipient gets to choose the fonts, you only get to recommend them. Same thing for how lists are rendered. If you want pixel perfect use ps or pdf (or even images if people don't need to be able to extract text). -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: Evolution with mapi plugin?
On Wed, 2008-12-17 at 23:27 +1930, Patrick O'Callaghan wrote: > On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 10:50 PM, Christopher A. Williams > wrote: > > On Wed, 2008-12-17 at 08:36 +1930, Patrick O'Callaghan wrote: > >> On Tue, Dec 16, 2008 at 10:10 PM, Tim wrote: > >> > On Mon, 2008-12-15 at 09:01 -0700, Christopher A. Williams wrote: > >> >> If Evolution is so philosophically against HTML formatted messages, > >> >> why do they then care to be able to render messages sent in this > >> >> format? > >> > > >> > When did it stop having this usually-a-nuisance ability? I've been able > >> > to compose messages in HTML using Evolution for as long as I can > >> > remember. Granted that the features of HTML it supports are rather > >> > basic, but then so are many of the mail clients that can read HTML mail. > >> > >> It hasn't changed. Apparently some people either think it should be > >> more complete, or they haven't looked for it carefully enough. > > > > Indeed it hasn't changed. And apparently, neither has the attitudes of > > the "why do I need to send HTML messages" crowd. > > > > Reminds me of the folks who fail to understand why VI shouldn't be the > > only word processor (and I do not mean text editor) anyone would ever > > need, or like the instructor I ran into on a Solaris based network > > monitoring product who ranted for an hour as to why the only shell you > > should ever use was the korn shell (because it was theoretically faster > > by a few CPU cycles than everything else). > > > > Basic is a good assessment of the Evo HTML composer. No control of > > fonts, and poor support and translation for even basic HTML tasks like > > ordered lists (they show up as an unordered list where the number "1" is > > the bullet). > > > > So yes - The Evo HTML composer absolutely should be "more complete". In > > its current state, it is absolutely among the worst of those available > > in Linux based e-mail clients. But I suppose if you don't care what font > > gets selected for you, only use bold and italic from time to time, and > > like big, round circles for unordered lists (or 1's for ordered lists), > > I guess it would be OK or even pretty good... > > Well I'm glad I made myself clear then. > > IMHO Evo has a number of things that need fixing, including features > of the UI and even basic stability, *before* the devels waste a lot of > effort introducing another slew of bugs by trying to be all things to > all users, especially as the people who *really* need sophisticated > HTML editing (I accept on faith that they must exist though I've never > actually met one) can always use an external editor, as I've already > said. > > The proper solution to this (non)-problem is to allow editing hooks > such as Kmail has, and/or plugins. Hooks have been requested for many > years, by myself and others, and not long ago it looked like they > might actually happen in 2.24, but it was not to be. I agree there are a bunch of other things that need to be fixed in Evo besides a good HTML composer, but that doesn't make the need any less of a problem. I guess you have the privilege of not having to deal with "the great unwashed" who routinely send and want to receive HTML e-mail. They also don't know that the business norm (imposed originally bu MS Outlook) of top-posting is also bad email etiquette. Hope you don't have to deal with them either, but most of the one I deal with have titles that start with the letter "C" or "V" - and they write very big checks. They are less inclined to write one with your name on it if you openly refuse to communicate in the language and style they are accustomed to... I heard rumors that a newer composer plugin for Evo may be in the works somewhere, but haven't heard anything official on it. We'll see. -- == "Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." -- Albert Einstein -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: Evolution with mapi plugin?
On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 10:50 PM, Christopher A. Williams wrote: > On Wed, 2008-12-17 at 08:36 +1930, Patrick O'Callaghan wrote: >> On Tue, Dec 16, 2008 at 10:10 PM, Tim wrote: >> > On Mon, 2008-12-15 at 09:01 -0700, Christopher A. Williams wrote: >> >> If Evolution is so philosophically against HTML formatted messages, >> >> why do they then care to be able to render messages sent in this >> >> format? >> > >> > When did it stop having this usually-a-nuisance ability? I've been able >> > to compose messages in HTML using Evolution for as long as I can >> > remember. Granted that the features of HTML it supports are rather >> > basic, but then so are many of the mail clients that can read HTML mail. >> >> It hasn't changed. Apparently some people either think it should be >> more complete, or they haven't looked for it carefully enough. > > Indeed it hasn't changed. And apparently, neither has the attitudes of > the "why do I need to send HTML messages" crowd. > > Reminds me of the folks who fail to understand why VI shouldn't be the > only word processor (and I do not mean text editor) anyone would ever > need, or like the instructor I ran into on a Solaris based network > monitoring product who ranted for an hour as to why the only shell you > should ever use was the korn shell (because it was theoretically faster > by a few CPU cycles than everything else). > > Basic is a good assessment of the Evo HTML composer. No control of > fonts, and poor support and translation for even basic HTML tasks like > ordered lists (they show up as an unordered list where the number "1" is > the bullet). > > So yes - The Evo HTML composer absolutely should be "more complete". In > its current state, it is absolutely among the worst of those available > in Linux based e-mail clients. But I suppose if you don't care what font > gets selected for you, only use bold and italic from time to time, and > like big, round circles for unordered lists (or 1's for ordered lists), > I guess it would be OK or even pretty good... Well I'm glad I made myself clear then. IMHO Evo has a number of things that need fixing, including features of the UI and even basic stability, *before* the devels waste a lot of effort introducing another slew of bugs by trying to be all things to all users, especially as the people who *really* need sophisticated HTML editing (I accept on faith that they must exist though I've never actually met one) can always use an external editor, as I've already said. The proper solution to this (non)-problem is to allow editing hooks such as Kmail has, and/or plugins. Hooks have been requested for many years, by myself and others, and not long ago it looked like they might actually happen in 2.24, but it was not to be. poc -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: Evolution with mapi plugin?
On Wed, 2008-12-17 at 08:36 +1930, Patrick O'Callaghan wrote: > On Tue, Dec 16, 2008 at 10:10 PM, Tim wrote: > > On Mon, 2008-12-15 at 09:01 -0700, Christopher A. Williams wrote: > >> If Evolution is so philosophically against HTML formatted messages, > >> why do they then care to be able to render messages sent in this > >> format? > > > > When did it stop having this usually-a-nuisance ability? I've been able > > to compose messages in HTML using Evolution for as long as I can > > remember. Granted that the features of HTML it supports are rather > > basic, but then so are many of the mail clients that can read HTML mail. > > It hasn't changed. Apparently some people either think it should be > more complete, or they haven't looked for it carefully enough. Indeed it hasn't changed. And apparently, neither has the attitudes of the "why do I need to send HTML messages" crowd. Reminds me of the folks who fail to understand why VI shouldn't be the only word processor (and I do not mean text editor) anyone would ever need, or like the instructor I ran into on a Solaris based network monitoring product who ranted for an hour as to why the only shell you should ever use was the korn shell (because it was theoretically faster by a few CPU cycles than everything else). Basic is a good assessment of the Evo HTML composer. No control of fonts, and poor support and translation for even basic HTML tasks like ordered lists (they show up as an unordered list where the number "1" is the bullet). So yes - The Evo HTML composer absolutely should be "more complete". In its current state, it is absolutely among the worst of those available in Linux based e-mail clients. But I suppose if you don't care what font gets selected for you, only use bold and italic from time to time, and like big, round circles for unordered lists (or 1's for ordered lists), I guess it would be OK or even pretty good... -- == "Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." -- Albert Einstein -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: Evolution with mapi plugin?
On Tue, Dec 16, 2008 at 10:10 PM, Tim wrote: > On Mon, 2008-12-15 at 09:01 -0700, Christopher A. Williams wrote: >> If Evolution is so philosophically against HTML formatted messages, >> why do they then care to be able to render messages sent in this >> format? > > When did it stop having this usually-a-nuisance ability? I've been able > to compose messages in HTML using Evolution for as long as I can > remember. Granted that the features of HTML it supports are rather > basic, but then so are many of the mail clients that can read HTML mail. It hasn't changed. Apparently some people either think it should be more complete, or they haven't looked for it carefully enough. poc -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: Evolution with mapi plugin?
On Mon, 2008-12-15 at 09:01 -0700, Christopher A. Williams wrote: > If Evolution is so philosophically against HTML formatted messages, > why do they then care to be able to render messages sent in this > format? When did it stop having this usually-a-nuisance ability? I've been able to compose messages in HTML using Evolution for as long as I can remember. Granted that the features of HTML it supports are rather basic, but then so are many of the mail clients that can read HTML mail. -- [...@localhost ~]$ uname -r 2.6.27.7-53.fc9.i686 Don't send private replies to my address, the mailbox is ignored. I read messages from the public lists. -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: Evolution with mapi plugin?
On Tue, Dec 16, 2008 at 11:31 AM, Christopher A. Williams wrote: > On Tue, 2008-12-16 at 10:38 +1930, Patrick O'Callaghan wrote: >> On Mon, Dec 15, 2008 at 7:04 AM, Christopher A. Williams >> wrote: >> > Now, if we could just get a first class message composer for Evolution >> > that lets you easily write text, rich text, or HTML messages, and allows >> > full editing control of fonts, colors, formatting, etc. as appropriate >> > for each. >> >> Well, it already supports rich text, but I suspect you'll have to wait >> forever for HTML editing as it's considered anathema in many circles. >> An email editor has no business trying to be a bastardized word >> processor. Just my 2c. > > Where does Evo support full rich text in the composer? I don't see that > option anywhere, so a pointer on this would be helpful. The menu bar immediately above the composer's text window has two drop-down menus and several formatting buttons. They provide rich text and basic HTML (fonts, paragraph formatting etc.) > I (obviously) disagree with your opinion. There are appropriate times > for sending HTML and for sending plain text messages. If Evolution is so > philosophically against HTML formatted messages, why do they then care > to be able to render messages sent in this format? Seems hypocritical to > me. A good e-mail client should provide both the capability and the > choice to send in HTML. I completely disagree. I think HTML email is in 99% of cases an abomination, and in the 1% of cases it might be justified can be accomodated via an external editor and attachments. However this is a religious issue and hence not worth discussing further. poc -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: Evolution with mapi plugin?
On Tue, 2008-12-16 at 10:38 +1930, Patrick O'Callaghan wrote: > On Mon, Dec 15, 2008 at 7:04 AM, Christopher A. Williams > wrote: > > Now, if we could just get a first class message composer for Evolution > > that lets you easily write text, rich text, or HTML messages, and allows > > full editing control of fonts, colors, formatting, etc. as appropriate > > for each. > > Well, it already supports rich text, but I suspect you'll have to wait > forever for HTML editing as it's considered anathema in many circles. > An email editor has no business trying to be a bastardized word > processor. Just my 2c. Where does Evo support full rich text in the composer? I don't see that option anywhere, so a pointer on this would be helpful. I (obviously) disagree with your opinion. There are appropriate times for sending HTML and for sending plain text messages. If Evolution is so philosophically against HTML formatted messages, why do they then care to be able to render messages sent in this format? Seems hypocritical to me. A good e-mail client should provide both the capability and the choice to send in HTML. Were it not for that I need to use Exchange, I would have dropped Evolution some time ago over its lack of a good HTML composer. Cheers, Chris -- "There's two strategies to arguin' with a woman: Neither one of 'em works." --Cowboy Wisdom -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: Evolution with mapi plugin?
On Mon, Dec 15, 2008 at 7:04 AM, Christopher A. Williams wrote: > Now, if we could just get a first class message composer for Evolution > that lets you easily write text, rich text, or HTML messages, and allows > full editing control of fonts, colors, formatting, etc. as appropriate > for each. Well, it already supports rich text, but I suspect you'll have to wait forever for HTML editing as it's considered anathema in many circles. An email editor has no business trying to be a bastardized word processor. Just my 2c. poc -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: Evolution with mapi plugin?
On Sat, 2008-12-13 at 18:33 +1930, Patrick O'Callaghan wrote: > On Sat, Dec 13, 2008 at 2:03 PM, Robin Laing > wrote: > > Patrick O'Callaghan wrote: > >> > >> On Fri, Dec 12, 2008 at 1:46 PM, Christopher A. Williams > >> wrote: > >>> > >>> On Thu, 2008-12-11 at 12:48 -0500, Tom Horsley wrote: > > On Fri, 12 Dec 2008 12:50:53 +1930 > Patrick O'Callaghan wrote: > > > > > >> I'm pretty sure Evo is the only game in town if you need Exchange > >> access (not counting browsers of course). I don't use Exchange so I > >> could change in a heartbeat (virtually all my mail is on IMAP servers) > >> but I still haven't found a MUA that convinces me as much as Evo, > >> despite its many faults. > >> > >> BTW, the new beta of Thunderbird 3 is just out. I tried it yesterday. > >> Very promising IMHO. This could turn out to be the one :-) > >> > >> poc > >> > > > > Not fully true. > > > > I tried Evolution when we moved to Exchange. We don't have imap or pop > > access so it was the only option. Of course filtering took forever and no > > access to the exchange server filtering via evolution. > > > > This just in (from the Evo list): > > http://mail.gnome.org/archives/evolution-list/2008-December/msg00086.html Nice..! This certainly looks promising for the future and might push me to rawhide a little sooner than normal. Now, if we could just get a first class message composer for Evolution that lets you easily write text, rich text, or HTML messages, and allows full editing control of fonts, colors, formatting, etc. as appropriate for each. Evo might actually become a decent mail and calendaring client by then... Cheers, Chris -- == By all means marry; If you get a good wife, you'll be happy. If you get a bad one, you'll become a philosopher. --Socrates -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: Evolution with mapi plugin?
On Sat, Dec 13, 2008 at 2:03 PM, Robin Laing wrote: > Patrick O'Callaghan wrote: >> >> On Fri, Dec 12, 2008 at 1:46 PM, Christopher A. Williams >> wrote: >>> >>> On Thu, 2008-12-11 at 12:48 -0500, Tom Horsley wrote: On Fri, 12 Dec 2008 12:50:53 +1930 Patrick O'Callaghan wrote: > > >> I'm pretty sure Evo is the only game in town if you need Exchange >> access (not counting browsers of course). I don't use Exchange so I >> could change in a heartbeat (virtually all my mail is on IMAP servers) >> but I still haven't found a MUA that convinces me as much as Evo, >> despite its many faults. >> >> BTW, the new beta of Thunderbird 3 is just out. I tried it yesterday. >> Very promising IMHO. This could turn out to be the one :-) >> >> poc >> > > Not fully true. > > I tried Evolution when we moved to Exchange. We don't have imap or pop > access so it was the only option. Of course filtering took forever and no > access to the exchange server filtering via evolution. > > I found this. > > http://www.saunalahti.fi/juhrauti/index.html > > fetchExc run from a script allows me to get my mail off the exchange server > and into my Thunderbird. :) :) :) > > I don't use the calender features as most of my co-workers don't like it > either. This just in (from the Evo list): http://mail.gnome.org/archives/evolution-list/2008-December/msg00086.html poc -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: Evolution with mapi plugin?
Patrick O'Callaghan wrote: On Fri, Dec 12, 2008 at 1:46 PM, Christopher A. Williams wrote: On Thu, 2008-12-11 at 12:48 -0500, Tom Horsley wrote: On Fri, 12 Dec 2008 12:50:53 +1930 Patrick O'Callaghan wrote: I'm pretty sure Evo is the only game in town if you need Exchange access (not counting browsers of course). I don't use Exchange so I could change in a heartbeat (virtually all my mail is on IMAP servers) but I still haven't found a MUA that convinces me as much as Evo, despite its many faults. BTW, the new beta of Thunderbird 3 is just out. I tried it yesterday. Very promising IMHO. This could turn out to be the one :-) poc Not fully true. I tried Evolution when we moved to Exchange. We don't have imap or pop access so it was the only option. Of course filtering took forever and no access to the exchange server filtering via evolution. I found this. http://www.saunalahti.fi/juhrauti/index.html fetchExc run from a script allows me to get my mail off the exchange server and into my Thunderbird. :) :) :) I don't use the calender features as most of my co-workers don't like it either. -- Robin Laing -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: Evolution with mapi plugin?
On Fri, Dec 12, 2008 at 1:46 PM, Christopher A. Williams wrote: > On Thu, 2008-12-11 at 12:48 -0500, Tom Horsley wrote: >> On Fri, 12 Dec 2008 12:50:53 +1930 >> Patrick O'Callaghan wrote: >> >> > If past experience is any guide, you'll have to wait for Evo 2.26, >> > which should be out in time for F11, though I guess Rawhide might get >> > it a little sooner. >> >> Also if past evolution experience is any guide, you'll end up with >> something that is even more broken than the evolution connector, >> but the connector won't be supported anymore. I have no idea >> what the design goals for evolution are, but I am absolutely >> positive that "make it work well" is not one of the >> goals. > > ...No kiddin! I would switch my default mail client to Thunderbird and > an appropriate calendaring extension in a heartbeat if I could figure > out how to make it work with our exchange server for *both* mail and > calendaring. > > Unfortunately, their tools for this appear to be even less capable that > Evolution. I'm pretty sure Evo is the only game in town if you need Exchange access (not counting browsers of course). I don't use Exchange so I could change in a heartbeat (virtually all my mail is on IMAP servers) but I still haven't found a MUA that convinces me as much as Evo, despite its many faults. BTW, the new beta of Thunderbird 3 is just out. I tried it yesterday. Very promising IMHO. This could turn out to be the one :-) poc -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: Evolution with mapi plugin?
On Thu, 2008-12-11 at 12:48 -0500, Tom Horsley wrote: > On Fri, 12 Dec 2008 12:50:53 +1930 > Patrick O'Callaghan wrote: > > > If past experience is any guide, you'll have to wait for Evo 2.26, > > which should be out in time for F11, though I guess Rawhide might get > > it a little sooner. > > Also if past evolution experience is any guide, you'll end up with > something that is even more broken than the evolution connector, > but the connector won't be supported anymore. I have no idea > what the design goals for evolution are, but I am absolutely > positive that "make it work well" is not one of the > goals. ...No kiddin! I would switch my default mail client to Thunderbird and an appropriate calendaring extension in a heartbeat if I could figure out how to make it work with our exchange server for *both* mail and calendaring. Unfortunately, their tools for this appear to be even less capable that Evolution. Cheers, Chris -- == "Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." -- Albert Einstein -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: Evolution with mapi plugin?
On Fri, 12 Dec 2008 12:50:53 +1930 Patrick O'Callaghan wrote: > If past experience is any guide, you'll have to wait for Evo 2.26, > which should be out in time for F11, though I guess Rawhide might get > it a little sooner. Also if past evolution experience is any guide, you'll end up with something that is even more broken than the evolution connector, but the connector won't be supported anymore. I have no idea what the design goals for evolution are, but I am absolutely positive that "make it work well" is not one of the goals. -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: Evolution with mapi plugin?
On Fri, Dec 12, 2008 at 7:27 AM, Christopher A. Williams <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Will we see a version of evolution with the new mapi provider plugin > that's being developed show up in the F10 or rawhide repos? I think you > need 2.25.x for this. > > Just something I'm interested in having a closer look at, but don't have > the time right now to go through re-compiling Evolution from source on > my work laptop for it. If past experience is any guide, you'll have to wait for Evo 2.26, which should be out in time for F11, though I guess Rawhide might get it a little sooner. poc -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Evolution with mapi plugin?
Will we see a version of evolution with the new mapi provider plugin that's being developed show up in the F10 or rawhide repos? I think you need 2.25.x for this. Just something I'm interested in having a closer look at, but don't have the time right now to go through re-compiling Evolution from source on my work laptop for it. Cheers, Chris -- == "Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." -- Albert Einstein -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
