Re: Fedora / RedHat - The problem
On Sun, 2008-11-02 at 23:51 -0500, Brian C. Huffman wrote: Alright I hate Microsoft. I really do. But here I am at 11:45pm on a Sunday night and my wife needs to print a paper for tomorrow. My Fedora cups / samba server worked before and now it doesnt. Was it an update that broke? I dunno. But this is why RedHat / Fedora is never going to take the upper hand. Reboots on both platforms, a bunch of tcpdumps and still no idea. No real user should have to go through this. Sure Ill figure it out. But is that what someone wants when theyve got a paper to print thats due tomorrow? I dont think so. -b Given the fact that I spent most of Friday night, trying to resolve a weird problem parent's XP/SP2 machine that rendered it DOA. Now, I was called to diagnose the problem after my parent's local computer technician told them to reinstall everything from scratch. In the end, it was one of MS' recent patches that screwed something in ZoneAlarm, which in-turn, killed the Internet dialer. I know it had been said 10,000 times before, but Fedora is bleeding edge and changing fast, one shouldn't use it unless he/she understand what bleeding edge means. Oh, Fedora != RedHat. - Gilboa -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: Fedora / RedHat - The problem
--- On Mon, 11/3/08, David Timms [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: David Timms [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Fedora / RedHat - The problem To: Community assistance, encouragement, and advice for using Fedora. fedora-list@redhat.com Date: Monday, November 3, 2008, 1:12 PM Brian C. Huffman wrote: ... a Sunday night and my wife needs to print a paper for tomorrow. what / i thought we had moved past actual tree printing ;-0 and on to pdfs or the original documents ... davet. ps. vmware is screwing with my keyboard 1 -- My last yum update installed a new Open Office 2.4 use XP Prof??? Vista??? Risky! I just cleared a MS security update that stopped internet traffic fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: Fedora / RedHat - The problem
Tim wrote: On Sun, 2008-11-02 at 23:51 -0500, Brian C. Huffman wrote: My Fedora cups / samba server worked before and now it doesnt. Was it an update that broke? I dunno. Reading /var/log/yum.log would let you see what'd been updated recently. But this is why RedHat / Fedora is never going to take the upper hand. Oh bullcrap! As if the exact sort of thing doesn't happen (surprise failures) on every other computer platform... it most certainly does. At least with Linux you stand a much better chance at diagnosing the fault, because you have proper logs. Does the creation of *.rpmnew or *.rpmsave files get logged somewhere? -- Les Mikesell [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: Fedora / RedHat - The problem
Brian C. Huffman wrote: ... a Sunday night and my wife needs to print a paper for tomorrow. what / i thought we had moved past actual tree printing ;-0 and on to pdfs or the original documents ... davet. ps. vmware is screwing with my keyboard 1 -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: Fedora / RedHat - The problem
--- On Mon, 11/3/08, Les Mikesell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: Les Mikesell [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Fedora / RedHat - The problem To: Community assistance, encouragement, and advice for using Fedora. fedora-list@redhat.com Date: Monday, November 3, 2008, 1:41 PM Tim wrote: On Sun, 2008-11-02 at 23:51 -0500, Brian C. Huffman wrote: My Fedora cups / samba server worked before and now it doesnt. Was it an update that broke? I dunno. Reading /var/log/yum.log would let you see what'd been updated recently. But this is why RedHat / Fedora is never going to take the upper hand. Oh bullcrap! As if the exact sort of thing doesn't happen (surprise failures) on every other computer platform... it most certainly does. At least with Linux you stand a much better chance at diagnosing the fault, because you have proper logs. Does the creation of *.rpmnew or *.rpmsave files get logged somewhere? -- Les Mikesell [EMAIL PROTECTED] Linux already took the upper hand in Munich Germany 3 (?) years ago: http://www.informationweek.com/news/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=10100433 I dual boot but I trust Fedora more than anything!!! It is looking superb! -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: Fedora / RedHat - The problem
On Sun, 2008-11-02 at 23:51 -0500, Brian C. Huffman wrote: Alright I hate Microsoft. I really do. But here I am at 11:45pm on a Sunday night and my wife needs to print a paper for tomorrow. My Fedora cups / samba server worked before and now it doesnt. Was it an update that broke? I dunno. But this is why RedHat / Fedora is never going to take the upper hand. Reboots on both platforms, a bunch of tcpdumps and still no idea. No real user should have to go through this. Sure Ill figure it out. But is that what someone wants when theyve got a paper to print thats due tomorrow? A few months ago I installed a new HP C5180 multifunction printer on my home network. I have 3 machines at home. Here's what happened when configuring the printer in each one: 1) My wife's iMac: Do you want to use this Printer?. Yes. Total time, 5 seconds. 2) My Fedora desktop: yum install hplip. Run hp-setup and answer some questions. Total time, say 15 minutes including download time. 3) My daughter's Toshiba laptop with Windows Vista: insert the install CD *which came with the printer*. Chug chug chug. Printer not working, in fact not even visible to Vista. Download a later install CD from hp.com. Still not working. Contact HP Support by email ... dolly back, fade to black ... Three days later, after half a dozen emails back and forth, get a newer version of driver CD, which can't be installed directly but has to be physically burned to a CD. Finally get the thing sort of working, when it's the right phase of the moon (I'm skipping the dozen or so system reboots of course). So, whose fault is all this? The driver belongs to HP, the system belongs to MS. My answer: the fault is the whole blasted Windows ecosystem. poc -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: Fedora / RedHat - The problem
Patrick O'Callaghan wrote: 3) My daughter's Toshiba laptop with Windows Vista: insert the install CD *which came with the printer*. Chug chug chug. Printer not working, in fact not even visible to Vista. Download a later install CD from hp.com. Still not working. Contact HP Support by email ... dolly back, fade to black ... Three days later, after half a dozen emails back and forth, get a newer version of driver CD, which can't be installed directly but has to be physically burned to a CD. Finally get the thing sort of working, when it's the right phase of the moon (I'm skipping the dozen or so system reboots of course). So, whose fault is all this? The driver belongs to HP, the system belongs to MS. My answer: the fault is the whole blasted Windows ecosystem. That's sort-of ignoring the fact that XP has worked with more equipment than anything else and probably for a longer time than anything else. Blame vista for changing interfaces which is what breaks things. Something Microsoft does every decade or so (and maybe they've learned something from it now) and linux continues to do about every month. -- Les Mikesell [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: Fedora / RedHat - The problem
--- On Mon, 11/3/08, Les Mikesell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: Les Mikesell [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Fedora / RedHat - The problem To: Community assistance, encouragement, and advice for using Fedora. fedora-list@redhat.com Date: Monday, November 3, 2008, 3:49 PM Patrick O'Callaghan wrote: 3) My daughter's Toshiba laptop with Windows Vista: insert the install CD *which came with the printer*. Chug chug chug. Printer not working, in fact not even visible to Vista. Download a later install CD from hp.com. Still not working. Contact HP Support by email ... dolly back, fade to black ... Three days later, after half a dozen emails back and forth, get a newer version of driver CD, which can't be installed directly but has to be physically burned to a CD. Finally get the thing sort of working, when it's the right phase of the moon (I'm skipping the dozen or so system reboots of course). So, whose fault is all this? The driver belongs to HP, the system belongs to MS. My answer: the fault is the whole blasted Windows ecosystem. That's sort-of ignoring the fact that XP has worked with more equipment than anything else and probably for a longer time than anything else. Blame vista for changing interfaces which is what breaks things. Something Microsoft does every decade or so (and maybe they've learned something from it now) and linux continues to do about every month. -- Les Mikesell [EMAIL PROTECTED] take the computer back and demand XP Prof! Many are doing this who in their right mind would buy Vista Even MS gave up on it...sure you can still buy it but... The # of HP horror stories will keep me clear of anything HP but printer cartridges -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: Fedora / RedHat - The problem
On Mon, 2008-11-03 at 08:04 -0800, Fred Silsbee wrote: take the computer back and demand XP Prof! Not physically possible. It was bought on Amazon and I live outside the US (it was delivered to a US postal address and then carried here). Many are doing this who in their right mind would buy Vista I didn't particularly buy Vista, I bought the laptop since it was a good deal. I could install XP on it of course (I have legal CDs). Even MS gave up on it...sure you can still buy it but... The # of HP horror stories will keep me clear of anything HP but printer cartridges Actually the printer works extremely well under both Linux and MacOS. It's the cost of refill cartridges that's killing me. The price per litre seems to be several times that of the most expensive champagne. poc -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: Fedora / RedHat - The problem
Fred Silsbee wrote: The # of HP horror stories will keep me clear of anything HP but printer cartridges That's not exactly fair either - with other things being equal, the company that makes/sells the most will have the most horror stories but in fact probably also has the most satisfied customers, -- Les Mikesell [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Fedora / RedHat - The problem
Alright I hate Microsoft. I really do. But here I am at 11:45pm on a Sunday night and my wife needs to print a paper for tomorrow. My Fedora cups / samba server worked before and now it doesnt. Was it an update that broke? I dunno. But this is why RedHat / Fedora is never going to take the upper hand. Reboots on both platforms, a bunch of tcpdumps and still no idea. No real user should have to go through this. Sure Ill figure it out. But is that what someone wants when theyve got a paper to print thats due tomorrow? I dont think so. -b -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: Fedora / RedHat - The problem
Brian C. Huffman wrote: Alright I hate Microsoft. I really do. But here I am at 11:45pm on a Sunday night and my wife needs to print a paper for tomorrow. My Fedora cups / samba server worked before and now it doesnt. Was it an update that broke? I dunno. But this is why RedHat / Fedora is never going to take the upper hand. Reboots on both platforms, a bunch of tcpdumps and still no idea. No real user should have to go through this. Sure Ill figure it out. But is that what someone wants when theyve got a paper to print thats due tomorrow? Sorry to hear about your problem. Yet, your post sounds a bit of knee jerk reaction and a bit of venting. Neither of which does anyone any good. To counter your reactionI've been using RHEL for quite a few years and never had a printing problem. Well, maybe that isn't quite accurate. I did have a few problems about 2 or 3 years ago when I changed my printer configuration and forgot a few tricks or maybe the tricks changed. Too long ago to recall. Anyway, that doesn't mean that updates in Fedora don't break things from time to time. But, when it does happen it is a good idea to report the problem (a bug or on this list) and then report the fix. Just venting...and not giving any clues is just not being helpful. Some may even consider it to be whining. FWIW, instead of ventingmaybe you could have told folks what your problem is/was and they would have responded with Oh, yes, I've seen that...the fix is. -- For courage mounteth with occasion. -- William Shakespeare, King John -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: Fedora / RedHat - The problem
On Sun, Nov 2, 2008 at 11:04 PM, Ed Greshko [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Brian C. Huffman wrote: Alright I hate Microsoft. I really do. But here I am at 11:45pm on a Sunday night and my wife needs to print a paper for tomorrow. My Fedora cups / samba server worked before and now it doesnt. Was it an update that broke? I dunno. But this is why RedHat / Fedora is never going to take the upper hand. Reboots on both platforms, a bunch of tcpdumps and still no idea. No real user should have to go through this. Sure Ill figure it out. But is that what someone wants when theyve got a paper to print thats due tomorrow? Sorry to hear about your problem. Yet, your post sounds a bit of knee jerk reaction and a bit of venting. Neither of which does anyone any good. To counter your reactionI've been using RHEL for quite a few years and never had a printing problem. Well, maybe that isn't quite accurate. I did have a few problems about 2 or 3 years ago when I changed my printer configuration and forgot a few tricks or maybe the tricks changed. Too long ago to recall. Anyway, that doesn't mean that updates in Fedora don't break things from time to time. But, when it does happen it is a good idea to report the problem (a bug or on this list) and then report the fix. Just venting...and not giving any clues is just not being helpful. Some may even consider it to be whining. FWIW, instead of ventingmaybe you could have told folks what your problem is/was and they would have responded with Oh, yes, I've seen that...the fix is. or irc://freenode.net/fedora , often the fastest way to a fix -- Fedora 9 : sulphur is good for the skin ( www.pembo13.com ) -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: Fedora / RedHat - The problem
On Sun, 2008-11-02 at 23:51 -0500, Brian C. Huffman wrote: My Fedora cups / samba server worked before and now it doesnt. Was it an update that broke? I dunno. Reading /var/log/yum.log would let you see what'd been updated recently. But this is why RedHat / Fedora is never going to take the upper hand. Oh bullcrap! As if the exact sort of thing doesn't happen (surprise failures) on every other computer platform... it most certainly does. At least with Linux you stand a much better chance at diagnosing the fault, because you have proper logs. -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] ~]$ uname -r 2.6.26.6-79.fc9.i686 Don't send private replies to my address, the mailbox is ignored. I read messages from the public lists. -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
