Re: Messed up my ISP/Networkmanager connection !? -- [SOLVED by removing NetworkManager]
Hi Kevin, Mikkel, Bruce et al; NetWorkMangager was the culprit ... On Wed, 2008-08-06 at 01:59 -0400, Kevin J. Cummings wrote: > I just went back and looked, you have a wired ethernet setup. Why are > you using NetworkManager? Have you tried disabling NetworkManager and > starting up the "network" service in its place? As you suggested, I turned off NetworkManger services. After rebooting, everything worked the way it should. No boot up warnings; browsers and Evolution started online; all connections were made. > (Unless you are somehow > married to using NetworkManager) "sysconfig-config-network" can > then be used to configure the ethernet card, even for DHCP from your > router. I am not married to NetworkManager but ... It would be nice to have a simple tool for ordinary users to configure their networks, large or small. [snip] >From various comments made on the list, and my recent experience NetworkManager is not yet ready for prime time. I was willing to spend the time, and still am, to help sort out NetworkMangager problems for small wired LANs. Summary: My problem seems to have boiled down to this: 1. As originally installed by Ananconda, NetworkManager worked, or at least did not interfere, with my household and Internet networking. 2. When I tried to make changes manually, NetworkManager could not recognize those changes if correct, nor give appropriate meaningful warnings if incorrect, nor reflect the state of things in any of its fields. It just quit working and would not restart even after corrections had been made from the commandline. Suggested Solution: 1. The developers continue to work on NetworkManager so that it is robust enough to handle people messing about with its settings either from the command line or within the gui. 2. Because networking is complex and confusing for users (I don't limit this comment to newbies) the error analysis should be meaningful. 3. In fact, I think it is well within the capabilities of today's developers to build a robost network setup analysis tool. 4. I would like to see two frontends for NetworkManager. One that is written in plain language with lots of 'Help' and tool tips and with the minimum of technospeak. And, a second frontend that is for advanced users. One of the advantages of FOSS is that you can write several different 'thingies' to be used by different types of users. It doesn't have to be one size fits all like M$. I was taking this opportunity to finally learn some stuff about networking, so I don't begrudge the time. In fact, that is what got me in trouble in the first place, screwing around with my settings to see what they would do. Up until now I was content to let my networks be set up automagically. If something goes wrong in Linux/Fedora it is tough to figure out how to fix it. In M$, it is almost impossible to follow. To me this is an area where we (Fedora, Linux and FOSS) could excel. If anybody thinks all this to-do has been worth filing a bug against NetworkManager. I will file. If it has just been a self-induced problem solved by shutting NetworkManager off, I'll leave things alone. Let me know. -- Regards Bill; Fedora 9, Gnome 2.22.3 Evo.2.22.3.1, Emacs 22.2.1 -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list
Re: Messed up my ISP/Networkmanager connection !? -- [SOLVED by removing NetworkManager]
Further events; On Wed, 2008-08-06 at 11:25 -0400, William Case wrote: > Hi Kevin, Mikkel, Bruce et al; > > NetWorkMangager was the culprit ... > > On Wed, 2008-08-06 at 01:59 -0400, Kevin J. Cummings wrote: > > > I just went back and looked, you have a wired ethernet setup. Why are > > you using NetworkManager? Have you tried disabling NetworkManager and > > starting up the "network" service in its place? > > As you suggested, I turned off NetworkManger services. After rebooting, > everything worked the way it should. No boot up warnings; browsers and > Evolution started online; all connections were made. I also tried the opposite just now. I.e turning off 'network' and turning on NetworkManager. 'network' services would not turn off. From the services gui I got a SELinux warning (even in permissive mode) from the command line I got ]# service network stop Shutting down interface eth0: [ OK ] Shutting down loopback interface: [ OK ] ]# service NetworkManager start Setting network parameters... [ OK ] Starting NetworkManager daemon:[ OK ] Waiting for network... [FAILED] ]# service NetworkManager status NetworkManager (pid 4866) is running... All I get is an empty notification panel gui that shows up and says no network connection, when, in fact, everything is connected but offline. ]# service network status Configured devices: lo eth0 Currently active devices: lo eth0 N.B. Tried to man 'network' -- no manual entry. Is there another name to 'man' by? [snip] > -- Regards Bill; Fedora 9, Gnome 2.22.3 Evo.2.22.3.1, Emacs 22.2.1 -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list
Re: Messed up my ISP/Networkmanager connection !? -- [SOLVED by removing NetworkManager]
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 William Case wrote: > N.B. Tried to man 'network' -- no manual entry. Is there another name > to 'man' by? this is not to answer your questions as kevin and mikkel have been doing for you. i am not up on networking as they are. this is to help you find information related to questions that you are going to continually run into. 1st, 'man locate' to see just how much it can do. then, run 'locate network|grep -v icon|less', or save to a file with, run 'locate network|grep -v icon>network-all' for all file related to network. and with, run 'locate network|grep help>network-help' for network help files, run 'locate network|grep doc>network-doc' for network document files. if you create a file, you can save time of scan for last 2 with, 'grep help network-all|less' or grep 'grep doc network-all|less'. from following the many post for help with networking, one thing that is apparent, 'network manager' is a good idea, but not without many bugs. in most all of threads, main suggestion is 'turn it off'. i would have suggested this to you when i sent what i did on 'aopen', accept that i thought it had already been suggested, which is usually among first suggestions. from your last couple post, it became evident that it was not. take it or leave. your choice. rest assured, i am not trying to be 'off tone', 'snide', 'insulting', or anything else of a negative attitude. just trying to offer you some more help so you can enjoy a working linux system. best to you. - -- tc,hago. g . in a free world without fences, who needs gates. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Red Hat - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFIme48+C4Bj9Rkw/wRAioBAJ9I6HP18WV2LiOEShFZov8/DoAKzQCeIaFm lCy6PE0lavAKmbP2tZiycXA= =sVrI -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list
Re: Messed up my ISP/Networkmanager connection !? -- [SOLVED by removing NetworkManager]
Hi g; On Wed, 2008-08-06 at 18:32 +, g wrote: > -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- > Hash: SHA1 > > William Case wrote: > > > N.B. Tried to man 'network' -- no manual entry. Is there another name > > to 'man' by? > [snip] > from following the many post for help with networking, one thing that > is apparent, 'network manager' is a good idea, but not without many > bugs. in most all of threads, main suggestion is 'turn it off'. > I too saw those posts. > i would have suggested this to you when i sent what i did on 'aopen', > accept that i thought it had already been suggested, which is usually > among first suggestions. from your last couple post, it became evident > that it was not. To me, at the moment, the problem is not solved by turning NetworkManager off. (It is off for the moment so I can do some other work easily.) I consider it a bit of a challenge to either get it working or finding out what the real 'bug' is. > > rest assured, i am not trying to be 'off tone', 'snide', 'insulting', > or anything else of a negative attitude. just trying to offer you some > more help so you can enjoy a working linux system. > > best to you. "The Hell you say." > - -- > > tc,hago. > > g > . > > in a free world without fences, who needs gates. > > -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- > Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (GNU/Linux) > Comment: Using GnuPG with Red Hat - http://enigmail.mozdev.org > > iD8DBQFIme48+C4Bj9Rkw/wRAioBAJ9I6HP18WV2LiOEShFZov8/DoAKzQCeIaFm > lCy6PE0lavAKmbP2tZiycXA= > =sVrI > -END PGP SIGNATURE- > -- Regards Bill; Fedora 9, Gnome 2.22.3 Evo.2.22.3.1, Emacs 22.2.1 -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list
Re: Messed up my ISP/Networkmanager connection !? -- [SOLVED by removing NetworkManager]
William Case wrote: Hi g; On Wed, 2008-08-06 at 18:32 +, g wrote: William Case wrote: N.B. Tried to man 'network' -- no manual entry. Is there another name to 'man' by? [snip] from following the many post for help with networking, one thing that is apparent, 'network manager' is a good idea, but not without many bugs. in most all of threads, main suggestion is 'turn it off'. I too saw those posts. i would have suggested this to you when i sent what i did on 'aopen', accept that i thought it had already been suggested, which is usually among first suggestions. from your last couple post, it became evident that it was not. To me, at the moment, the problem is not solved by turning NetworkManager off. (It is off for the moment so I can do some other work easily.) I consider it a bit of a challenge to either get it working or finding out what the real 'bug' is. rest assured, i am not trying to be 'off tone', 'snide', 'insulting', or anything else of a negative attitude. just trying to offer you some more help so you can enjoy a working linux system. best to you. "The Hell you say." If you'd like to learn more about linux networking, do as I did. Go to /etc/sysconfig/networking and /etc/sysconfig/network-scripts directories and poke around. Look at the scriplets and scripts in there and see how networking gets configured. In particular, look at the ifcfg-eth0 script and the ifup stuff. See how it all fits together. system-config-network does little more than put these scripts together so that your networking comes up properly configured upon bootup. ifup should configure and start a network interface, while ifdown should shut one down. (duh!) the command "ifup eth0" and "ifdown eth0" should start and stop networking on eth0 if its been configured properly. Lots of fun! -- Kevin J. Cummings [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Registered Linux User #1232 (http://counter.li.org) -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list
Re: Messed up my ISP/Networkmanager connection !? -- [SOLVED by removing NetworkManager]
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 William Case wrote: >> "The Hell you say." not his time. - -- tc,hago. g . in a free world without fences, who needs gates. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Red Hat - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFImhsM+C4Bj9Rkw/wRAqERAJwMzgnUg5zNt9tu7NKcdRcEjNIE1QCfdBBD WAD81JaxPmIfZtFJTYuRwNo= =PHj/ -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list
Re: Messed up my ISP/Networkmanager connection !? -- [SOLVED by removing NetworkManager]
On Wed, Aug 6, 2008 at 8:25 AM, William Case <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hi Kevin, Mikkel, Bruce et al; > > NetWorkMangager was the culprit ... > > On Wed, 2008-08-06 at 01:59 -0400, Kevin J. Cummings wrote: > > > I just went back and looked, you have a wired ethernet setup. Why are > > you using NetworkManager? Have you tried disabling NetworkManager and > > starting up the "network" service in its place? > > As you suggested, I turned off NetworkManger services. After rebooting, > everything worked the way it should. No boot up warnings; browsers and > Evolution started online; all connections were made. > > > (Unless you are somehow > > married to using NetworkManager) "sysconfig-config-network" can > > then be used to configure the ethernet card, even for DHCP from your > > router. > > I am not married to NetworkManager but ... > It would be nice to have a simple tool for ordinary users to configure > their networks, large or small. > > [snip] > > >From various comments made on the list, and my recent experience > NetworkManager is not yet ready for prime time. I was willing to spend > the time, and still am, to help sort out NetworkMangager problems for > small wired LANs. > > Summary: > > My problem seems to have boiled down to this: > > 1. As originally installed by Ananconda, NetworkManager worked, or >at least did not interfere, with my household and Internet >networking. > 2. When I tried to make changes manually, NetworkManager could not >recognize those changes if correct, nor give appropriate >meaningful warnings if incorrect, nor reflect the state of >things in any of its fields. It just quit working and would not >restart even after corrections had been made from the >commandline. > > Suggested Solution: > 1. The developers continue to work on NetworkManager so that it is >robust enough to handle people messing about with its settings >either from the command line or within the gui. > 2. Because networking is complex and confusing for users (I don't >limit this comment to newbies) the error analysis should be >meaningful. > 3. In fact, I think it is well within the capabilities of today's >developers to build a robost network setup analysis tool. > 4. I would like to see two frontends for NetworkManager. One that >is written in plain language with lots of 'Help' and tool tips >and with the minimum of technospeak. And, a second frontend >that is for advanced users. One of the advantages of FOSS is >that you can write several different 'thingies' to be used by >different types of users. It doesn't have to be one size fits >all like M$. > > I was taking this opportunity to finally learn some stuff about > networking, so I don't begrudge the time. In fact, that is what got me > in trouble in the first place, screwing around with my settings to see > what they would do. > > Up until now I was content to let my networks be set up automagically. > If something goes wrong in Linux/Fedora it is tough to figure out how to > fix it. In M$, it is almost impossible to follow. To me this is an > area where we (Fedora, Linux and FOSS) could excel. > > If anybody thinks all this to-do has been worth filing a bug against > NetworkManager. I will file. If it has just been a self-induced problem > solved by shutting NetworkManager off, I'll leave things alone. Let me > know. > > > -- > Regards Bill; > Fedora 9, Gnome 2.22.3 > Evo.2.22.3.1, Emacs 22.2.1 > > -- > fedora-list mailing list > fedora-list@redhat.com > To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list > I would file a bug. Anything that gets some attention placed towards NetworkManager is worth it. I ended up disabled NM because it would screw up my wireless connection. I don't think NM is ready for prime time. I would also like to see system-config-network interface to NM (if present) rather than providing a different interface so that there is a consistant gui for configuring the network. Paolo -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list
Re: Messed up my ISP/Networkmanager connection !? -- [SOLVED by removing NetworkManager]
On Wed, 2008-08-06 at 12:50 -0400, William Case wrote: > Further events; [...] > I also tried the opposite just now. I.e turning off 'network' and > turning on NetworkManager. 'network' services would not turn off. From > the services gui I got a SELinux warning (even in permissive mode) In permissive mode SELinux will give you the warning but not act on it. > from > the command line I got > > ]# service network stop > Shutting down interface eth0: [ OK ] > Shutting down loopback interface: [ OK ] > > ]# service NetworkManager start > Setting network parameters... [ OK ] > Starting NetworkManager daemon:[ OK ] > Waiting for network... [FAILED] > > ]# service NetworkManager status > NetworkManager (pid 4866) is running... > > All I get is an empty notification panel gui that shows up and says no > network connection, when, in fact, everything is connected but offline. What does "connected but offline" mean? > ]# service network status > Configured devices: > lo eth0 > Currently active devices: > lo eth0 Try "ifconfig eth0" to see if the interface is up. > N.B. Tried to man 'network' -- no manual entry. Is there another name > to 'man' by? "man -k network" will give you a list of places to start looking. poc -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list
