Re: Old Dual Pentium III 500Mhz Servers
2009/11/11 Rick Stevens : > Aaron Gray wrote: >> >> 2009/11/10 David Timms : >>> >>> On 11/11/2009 04:54 AM, Bryn M. Reeves wrote: > > Computer users nightmare number 9: Part way through the installation > process, a message pops up, "You're going to need a bigger boat" Nice way of putting it! >>> >>> Ack ;-) >> >> Boat is actually big enough ! >> >> Setting KeepAlive On and giving PHP processes more memory ie 128M, and >> every thing is fine now. There are probably more Apache tweeks to look >> at too. > > Depending on how much traffic you do, you should also look at things > like a fastcgi implementation of Apache and PHP (PHP runs as a separate > program and Apache talks to it via Unix or IP ports). Keeps Apache > from having to spawn PHP interpreters all the time and you don't have > to worry about crud like suexec. We use it all the time...big > improvement in performance. We are a pritty low traffic server. We only have 1MBit up link. But it seems to be working a treat now. Thanks, Aaron -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: Old Dual Pentium III 500Mhz Servers
Aaron Gray wrote: 2009/11/10 David Timms : On 11/11/2009 04:54 AM, Bryn M. Reeves wrote: Computer users nightmare number 9: Part way through the installation process, a message pops up, "You're going to need a bigger boat" Nice way of putting it! Ack ;-) Boat is actually big enough ! Setting KeepAlive On and giving PHP processes more memory ie 128M, and every thing is fine now. There are probably more Apache tweeks to look at too. Depending on how much traffic you do, you should also look at things like a fastcgi implementation of Apache and PHP (PHP runs as a separate program and Apache talks to it via Unix or IP ports). Keeps Apache from having to spawn PHP interpreters all the time and you don't have to worry about crud like suexec. We use it all the time...big improvement in performance. -- - Rick Stevens, Systems Engineer ri...@nerd.com - - AIM/Skype: therps2ICQ: 22643734Yahoo: origrps2 - -- - Where there's a will, I want to be in it. - -- -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: Old Dual Pentium III 500Mhz Servers
2009/11/10 David Timms : > On 11/11/2009 04:54 AM, Bryn M. Reeves wrote: >>> >>> Computer users nightmare number 9: Part way through the installation >>> process, a message pops up, "You're going to need a bigger boat" >> >> Nice way of putting it! > > Ack ;-) Boat is actually big enough ! Setting KeepAlive On and giving PHP processes more memory ie 128M, and every thing is fine now. There are probably more Apache tweeks to look at too. Aaron -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: Old Dual Pentium III 500Mhz Servers
On 11/11/2009 04:54 AM, Bryn M. Reeves wrote: Computer users nightmare number 9: Part way through the installation process, a message pops up, "You're going to need a bigger boat" Nice way of putting it! Ack ;-) -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: Old Dual Pentium III 500Mhz Servers
2009/11/9 H. Willstrand : > Hi! > >> On Mon, Nov 9, 2009 at 8:40 PM, Aaron Gray >> wrote: >>> I have two old servers Dual Pentium III 500Mhz and have just replaced >>> two older single CPU Pentium III 500Mhz machines. >>> >>> I had FC4 and FC5 on the older servers. >>> >>> Now have F11 on the two newer machines. >>> >>> The new machines seem slower than the old ones were when they were >>> originally put on line 4 or 5 years ago when running Apache >>> >>> It this a F11 v FC5 thing, or can I claw back some cycles by disabling >>> some services and streamlineing Apache ? >>> >>> Any wisdom welcome, >>> > In /etc/httpd/conf/httpd.conf try changing "KeepAlive" to On. This might help. Nice, done that, thanks, Aaron -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: Old Dual Pentium III 500Mhz Servers
On Wed, 2009-11-11 at 03:50 +1030, Tim wrote: > On Tue, 2009-11-10 at 23:47 +1100, David Timms wrote: > > Things to think about: > > - if you are talking about the same machine, disk drive tiredness > > would have reduced the access speed that you can achieve, when r/w to > > disk. > > Beg yours... drive tiredness? The old gray mare not what she used to > be? Since when do drives become old age pensioners with blankets on > their laps, day dreaming about the old days, instead of doing the same > as they were doing last week? Since they use sector remapping to recover failed errors and ECC/parity codes to recover data errors. As sectors have to be remapped elsewhere on disk seek overheads will increase. There may also be further penalties as the recoverable media error rate rises, i.e. the disk has to issue repeated reads to correctly retrieve the data for a particular sector. Sometimes you'll see this acutely when a sector is failing - the drive will appear to go out to lunch for a moment when the tricky sector is accessed. If spare sectors are still available a write to the offending location may cause the drive to spare it out and avoid the problem for a while. Looking at the S.M.A.R.T. reports for the drive can help you understand if this is the problem for a particular system. Often though I've seen users diagnose a problem like this as "old hardware getting slow" when in fact it's a software or file system issue. > > - more stuff relying on storage/retrieval of information from > > inefficient storage formats like xml > > Reminds me of back when I was using an Amiga - any program that stored > its configuration in a text file took ages to parse it as the program > started up. Whereas those that stored their data in the programs binary > format were very nippy. > > Even now, on fast GHz CPUs, I've noticed that you can get Apache or > Squid to start up much quicker if you purged the masses of comments out > of the configuration file, so the program had less to parse. > > Yes, the programs do parse the comments, they've got to find the end of > the comment to find the next instructions that they're going to use, the > whole file is parsed. Depends how you look at it - most comment notations have a line-delimiter (e.g. # in apache). This only requires examining the first character of the line to know that the rest must be ignored (of course the entire line must still be read into memory which does impose overhead especially if there are many lines of commentary as is often the case for default config files). Block comments do require consuming characters until the end-of-comment token is reached. > Computer users nightmare number 9: Part way through the installation > process, a message pops up, "You're going to need a bigger boat" Nice way of putting it! Regards, Bryn. -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: Old Dual Pentium III 500Mhz Servers
On Tue, 2009-11-10 at 23:47 +1100, David Timms wrote: > Things to think about: > - if you are talking about the same machine, disk drive tiredness > would have reduced the access speed that you can achieve, when r/w to > disk. Beg yours... drive tiredness? The old gray mare not what she used to be? Since when do drives become old age pensioners with blankets on their laps, day dreaming about the old days, instead of doing the same as they were doing last week? > - more stuff relying on storage/retrieval of information from > inefficient storage formats like xml Reminds me of back when I was using an Amiga - any program that stored its configuration in a text file took ages to parse it as the program started up. Whereas those that stored their data in the programs binary format were very nippy. Even now, on fast GHz CPUs, I've noticed that you can get Apache or Squid to start up much quicker if you purged the masses of comments out of the configuration file, so the program had less to parse. Yes, the programs do parse the comments, they've got to find the end of the comment to find the next instructions that they're going to use, the whole file is parsed. And, yes, I know there's other advantages in text based configuration files (you can tweak them yourself, and the program designer can be lazy about creating GUI/TUI configuration routines). But, on the other side of the coin, a configurator can be designed to not let the user pick mutually exclusive options. > If we consider moore's law saying we'll get a doubling of CPU > performance every 18 months, the corollary must be we'll bloat our os > and applications to at least exceed the above as operational > requirements; end result is actual decline in capability over time... Computer users nightmare number 9: Part way through the installation process, a message pops up, "You're going to need a bigger boat" -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: Old Dual Pentium III 500Mhz Servers
On Mon, 2009-11-09 at 22:40 +, Aaron Gray wrote: > The new machines seem slower than the old ones were when they were > originally put on line 4 or 5 years ago when running Apache > > It this a F11 v FC5 thing, or can I claw back some cycles by disabling > some services and streamlineing Apache ? Is it just a server? Turn off the graphical mode, and leave it running at run level 3, there'll be less intensive stuff being needlessly done by the computer. That, and the obvious turn off all the services that you don't need. Over the years, I've seen Fedora get more efficient, then someone takes advantage of that and makes the next release do more work (fancier X, fancier audio, etc.), and it becomes more of a slug, needing newer faster hardware. -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: Old Dual Pentium III 500Mhz Servers
On 11/10/2009 09:40 AM, Aaron Gray wrote: I have two old servers Dual Pentium III 500Mhz and have just replaced two older single CPU Pentium III 500Mhz machines. I had FC4 and FC5 on the older servers. Now have F11 on the two newer machines. I would say the same for an old pentium II 366 notebook (512MB). The Fedora 3 or so that was around when it first received a linux distro was much snappier than F10 (the most recent one I tried). Things to think about: - if you are talking about the same machine, disk drive tiredness would have reduced the access speed that you can achieve, when r/w to disk. - fans may be worn, running slowly, and noisily, leading to poor cooling of components and temp sensors kicking in to reduce clock rates. - the kernel is general purpose, and aimed for the most common machine that it will get put on eg see stats: (and ram, cache sizes types speed). http://www.smolts.org/static/stats/stats.html - stack hardening / etc in libraries / compiled programs - security updates adding proper checking of eg received/entered strings etc - just more processing to be done (that should have been done in the original release, but was instead added over time as security analysis showed poor handling) - selinux (was it in and on, active in your older release) ? - defaulting to use of layered storage (ie lvm) in newer releases ? - audio - possibly biggest CPU killer is runtime audio dsp mixing (eg an old machine just passed audio data to the sound card, and it was attenuated there before output - might have been 1-2% cpu. same machine playing back audio now might used 30-50% cpu. - more stuff that instead of using fd's to pass information, instead using other methods like dbus calls with xml like data to encode then decode. - more stuff relying on storage/retrieval of information from inefficient storage formats like xml - more web sites assuming you have fast CPU, infinite bandwidth, and infinite monthly download limits, leading to sites: - filled with far too many ads (firefox adblock) - far to much active content like flash (flashblock) - far too many stat, counting, tracking connections to make - familiarity with faster machines changing your perceptions of speed. - Fedora joining of Fedora and Extras, increasing the size of metadata dl needed for updates etc. (although with better caching methods, and some optimized parsing). If we consider moore's law saying we'll get a doubling of CPU performance every 18 months, the corollary must be we'll bloat our os and applications to at least exceed the above as operational requirements; end result is actual decline in capability over time... If you have two identical machines: you might be in the best position to do direct A-B comparisons of same hardware, different OS. Get the stopwatch out, what type of things take longer/shorter ? I am sure others can think of more excuses why same machine would be slower with newer OS. DaveT. -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: Old Dual Pentium III 500Mhz Servers
Frode Petersen wrote: I wonder how one could profile an entire OS to find out where the cycles go? Is it feasible? Definitely: OProfile is your friend. I do it all the time. Andrew. -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: Old Dual Pentium III 500Mhz Servers
Aaron Gray skrev: I had FC4 and FC5 on the older servers. Now have F11 on the two newer machines. The new machines seem slower than the old ones were when they were originally put on line 4 or 5 years ago when running Apache It this a F11 v FC5 thing, or can I claw back some cycles by disabling some services and streamlineing Apache ? Hi, Aaron. I've noticed a difference between FC6/Centos5 and F10 in how 'snappy' they feel, though I haven't compared them directly much. The only 'measure' I have is (don't laugh) Gnomine; if you hit a square that opens a lot of squares, it's instant on FC6/Centos5, but it seems unintentionally(?) 'animated' on F10. This is presumably such a simple program that I guess the reason in this case is a much more complex graphics/GUI subsystem. (This is all on one system; dualboot). I wonder how one could profile an entire OS to find out where the cycles go? Is it feasible? (Disclaimer: I used to have FC6 on the machine, but changed to Centos5 some time after the FC6 lifetime. I'm not sure about how directly they would compare performancewise; am I wrong in thinking that they shouldn't be too far apart? ) Best regards, Frode Petersen -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: Old Dual Pentium III 500Mhz Servers
have you tried lighttpd instead of apache ? -- Itamar Reis Peixoto e-mail/msn/google talk/sip: ita...@ispbrasil.com.br skype: itamarjp icq: 81053601 +55 11 4063 5033 +55 34 3221 8599 -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: Old Dual Pentium III 500Mhz Servers
Hi! On Mon, Nov 9, 2009 at 11:44 PM, Itamar Reis Peixoto wrote: > well why you don't replace your old P3-500 by a plug computer. > > http://www.plugcomputer.org/ > > I think your P3-500 eat alot of power. > > > > > > On Mon, Nov 9, 2009 at 8:40 PM, Aaron Gray > wrote: >> I have two old servers Dual Pentium III 500Mhz and have just replaced >> two older single CPU Pentium III 500Mhz machines. >> >> I had FC4 and FC5 on the older servers. >> >> Now have F11 on the two newer machines. >> >> The new machines seem slower than the old ones were when they were >> originally put on line 4 or 5 years ago when running Apache >> >> It this a F11 v FC5 thing, or can I claw back some cycles by disabling >> some services and streamlineing Apache ? >> >> Any wisdom welcome, >> In /etc/httpd/conf/httpd.conf try changing "KeepAlive" to On. This might help. >> Aaron > > -- > > > Itamar Reis Peixoto > > e-mail/msn/google talk/sip: ita...@ispbrasil.com.br > skype: itamarjp > icq: 81053601 > +55 11 4063 5033 > +55 34 3221 8599 > > -- > fedora-list mailing list > fedora-list@redhat.com > To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list > Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines > //HW -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: Old Dual Pentium III 500Mhz Servers
well why you don't replace your old P3-500 by a plug computer. http://www.plugcomputer.org/ I think your P3-500 eat alot of power. On Mon, Nov 9, 2009 at 8:40 PM, Aaron Gray wrote: > I have two old servers Dual Pentium III 500Mhz and have just replaced > two older single CPU Pentium III 500Mhz machines. > > I had FC4 and FC5 on the older servers. > > Now have F11 on the two newer machines. > > The new machines seem slower than the old ones were when they were > originally put on line 4 or 5 years ago when running Apache > > It this a F11 v FC5 thing, or can I claw back some cycles by disabling > some services and streamlineing Apache ? > > Any wisdom welcome, > > Aaron -- Itamar Reis Peixoto e-mail/msn/google talk/sip: ita...@ispbrasil.com.br skype: itamarjp icq: 81053601 +55 11 4063 5033 +55 34 3221 8599 -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Old Dual Pentium III 500Mhz Servers
I have two old servers Dual Pentium III 500Mhz and have just replaced two older single CPU Pentium III 500Mhz machines. I had FC4 and FC5 on the older servers. Now have F11 on the two newer machines. The new machines seem slower than the old ones were when they were originally put on line 4 or 5 years ago when running Apache It this a F11 v FC5 thing, or can I claw back some cycles by disabling some services and streamlineing Apache ? Any wisdom welcome, Aaron -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
