Re: F8 vs F9
On Wed, 2008-08-13 at 16:13 -0700, Dave Stevens wrote: On Tuesday 12 August 2008 07:05:12 am Mike -- EMAIL IGNORED wrote: I need to install a few new systems in the next few weeks. My requirements are: apache; C++ code development; netfilter; KDE; openvpn; and above all, stability. I have heard a rumor that I might be better off with F8 than F9. Is this true? Thanks, Mike. based on my own experience, if you want ease and stability rhel or centos. So far, I'm sold on CentOS. It just does what I want it to. Plain and simple. Nce. Ric -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list
Re: F8 vs F9
On Wednesday 13 August 2008 23:05, Lyvim Xaphir wrote: On Wed, 2008-08-13 at 22:04 +0100, Anne Wilson wrote: On Wednesday 13 August 2008 19:56, Lyvim Xaphir wrote: According to Queene Anne? BFD. According to someone who prefers facts to slurs. KDE4 is not yet complete, but 95% of most people's needs are now available. If you prefer not to learn a new way of working that's your choice, but don't insult those of us to are willing to learn. While you on the other hand need to learn some respect with others that have a different opinion than yours; if you don't want a snippy response, then watch what comes out of your keyboard. Don't start an insult and then get on the red carpet with a crown saying you've been insulted. Just cause you ride high with your own opinion doesn't mean I happen to share it; I've got F9 here and it looks like a gnome regression. It's not KDE anymore, it's gnome, with the accompanying lack of sophistication. That might change but as of right now that's the way it is. Fangirl sophistry and drama don't substitute for technical evaluation. Neither does GNU Flagellant cultism. To the best of my knowledge I have insulted no-one. I do not care if you don't agree with my opinion, you are free to do as you like. I can't imagine why you brought gnome or gnu into this, either. I'll waste no more time on this thread. Anne -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list
Re: F8 vs F9
On Tuesday 12 August 2008 15:05, Mike -- EMAIL IGNORED wrote: I need to install a few new systems in the next few weeks. My requirements are: apache; C++ code development; netfilter; KDE; openvpn; and above all, stability. I have heard a rumor that I might be better off with F8 than F9. Is this true? It depends entirely on what these new systems are to be used for. KDE4 is developing nicely, but is not yet at the level required for many production purposes, and F9 doesn't give you KDE3. If you are producing systems for developers, then go to F9, but if you want general production systems, install F8. Bear in mind, though, that F8 has a limited lifespan left. You will need to go to F10 before long. Of course if utter stability is your need, go to one of the Enterprise versions, such as CentOS. Anne -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list
Re: F8 vs F9
On Tuesday 12 August 2008 15:49, Tom Horsley wrote: but F9 has certainly improved with updates (and with nvidia drivers becoming available) since the release. Beware! There are known issues with some nvidia cards (some of the latest ones, I believe). It is an nvidia problem, and they are aware of it and working on it, but there is no known timescale for the fix. Until then, some of the 'fastest' nvidia cards run incredibly slowly. Anne -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list
Re: F8 vs F9
On Tuesday 12 August 2008 15:50, Lyvim Xaphir wrote: If you have ATI, F8 is the only way to go. F9 is not good for ATI cards, the ati drivers won't support any x server greater than 1.4.2. I presume you mean for accelerated desktop effects? Certainly for 'normal' use there is no problem. KDE4 really is a disaster so far, it looks like a dumbed down gnome. Utter rubbish. F8 features the last mature version of kde, which is 3.5, and it's pretty robust. Nothing wrong with 3.5, but remember that if you install F8 now it will be unsupported in a very short time. Anne -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list
Re: F8 vs F9
On Tue, 2008-08-12 at 14:05 +, Mike -- EMAIL IGNORED wrote: I need to install a few new systems in the next few weeks. My requirements are: apache; C++ code development; netfilter; KDE; openvpn; and above all, stability. I have heard a rumor that I might be better off with F8 than F9. Is this true? Thanks, Mike. You're asking a rather difficult question to answer. If you're looking for rock-solid stability, you shouldn't be using Fedora - you should look at getting an RHEL subscription (CentOS if you do not require 24x7 support) However, if you require stability - but can live with breakage from time to time, I'd use F8 and skip F9. F9/KDE 4.1 is far better than F9/KDE 4.0, but still cannot compete (both feature-wise and stability-wise) with F8/KDE 3.5.9. -However-, I'm using F9 - for a very simple reason: If I/we won't test F9/KDE 4.1 -now-, the bugs won't get detected and fixed by F10/KDE 4.2. Short term discomfort for long term stability. Oh, F9 includes a new GCC (4.3) that created some breakage (at least on my own software) - but the new errors/warning did help us clear up some bugs - so again, short term, etc, etc. - Gilboa -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list
Re: F8 vs F9
On Tue, 2008-08-12 at 14:49 +, Tom Horsley wrote: My main blocker with F9 now is that I haven't yet figured out how to rip pulseaudio out and get alsa functioning again. I'm using: yum remove kde-settings-pulseaudio alsa-plugins-pulseaudio - Gilboa -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list
Re: F8 vs F9
On Wed, 13 Aug 2008 12:42:23 +0300 Gilboa Davara [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm using: yum remove kde-settings-pulseaudio alsa-plugins-pulseaudio Weird. Removing the alsa plugin worked for me in f8, but when I tried it in f9, I still didn't get sound. Maybe I also have the device permission problem some folks have run into. I'll poke around some more someday when I have a chance to play with f9 again. -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list
Re: F8 vs F9
On Wed, 13 Aug 2008 06:51:15 +0800, Ed Greshko wrote: Mark Haney wrote: Ed Greshko wrote: The answer is either yes, no, or maybe. And you get 10 points for asking one of the silliest questions I've seen asked her in quite some time. Why is it silly? Basically because it doesn't have enough detail. It doesn't tell us what versions of the particular software you need (feature requirements). Nor, does it go into any details about the rumor. So, that leaves everyone free to determine what the rumor is and base their responses on their interpretation. Also, the term stability is subject to interpretation as well. Then there is the life cycle question. Is Fedora really right for this project? Will the relatively quick release cycles for Fedora and the subsequent lack of updates present a problem in the future? And on, and on. [...] On the other hand, it did get the answers I needed (one most unexpected), and did generate some interesting discussion. And no one was quite offensive enough to get added to my permanently banned authors list in pan ;) . Mike. -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list
Re: F8 vs F9
On Wed, 2008-08-13 at 09:42 +0100, Anne Wilson wrote: On Tuesday 12 August 2008 15:50, Lyvim Xaphir wrote: If you have ATI, F8 is the only way to go. F9 is not good for ATI cards, the ati drivers won't support any x server greater than 1.4.2. I presume you mean for accelerated desktop effects? Certainly for 'normal' use there is no problem. Normal is folks who want to get the money out of their hardware as opposed to a GNU cultist that's willing to accept substandard behavior in the driver KDE4 really is a disaster so far, it looks like a dumbed down gnome. Utter rubbish. According to Queene Anne? BFD. F8 features the last mature version of kde, which is 3.5, and it's pretty robust. Nothing wrong with 3.5, but remember that if you install F8 now it will be unsupported in a very short time. That depends on who's doing the supporting. Anne LX -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list
Re: F8 vs F9
On Wed, 2008-08-13 at 06:51 +0800, Ed Greshko wrote: Mark Haney wrote: Ed Greshko wrote: The answer is either yes, no, or maybe. And you get 10 points for asking one of the silliest questions I've seen asked her in quite some time. Why is it silly? Basically because it doesn't have enough detail. It doesn't tell us what versions of the particular software you need (feature requirements). Nor, does it go into any details about the rumor. So, that leaves everyone free to determine what the rumor is and base their responses on their interpretation. Maybe a better choice of words other than silly would have been in order. Silly = Weak in intellect; destitute of ordinary strength of mind; foolish; witless; simple; as, a silly woman.[1913 Webster] Not a great label to use on anyone. Ric -- My father, Victor Moore (Vic) used to say: There are two Great Sins in the world... ..the Sin of Ignorance, and the Sin of Stupidity. Only the former may be overcome. R.I.P. Dad. Linux user# 44256 Sign up at: http://counter.li.org/ http://www.sourceforge.net/projects/oar https://oar.dev.java.net/ Verizon Cell # 336-254-1339 - -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list
Re: F8 vs F9
On Wed, 2008-08-13 at 09:42 +0100, Anne Wilson wrote: On Tuesday 12 August 2008 15:50, Lyvim Xaphir wrote: If you have ATI, F8 is the only way to go. F9 is not good for ATI cards, the ati drivers won't support any x server greater than 1.4.2. I presume you mean for accelerated desktop effects? Certainly for 'normal' use there is no problem. KDE4 really is a disaster so far, it looks like a dumbed down gnome. Utter rubbish. The user is entitled to an opinion, Anne. I know you and others are working hard on it, but there is plenty of users who just plain don't like the change. Me included. That's human as it's another learning curve on top of many other learning curves. Anything with a spinal cord will turn from pain. :) Ric -- My father, Victor Moore (Vic) used to say: There are two Great Sins in the world... ..the Sin of Ignorance, and the Sin of Stupidity. Only the former may be overcome. R.I.P. Dad. Linux user# 44256 Sign up at: http://counter.li.org/ http://www.sourceforge.net/projects/oar https://oar.dev.java.net/ Verizon Cell # 336-254-1339 - -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list
Re: F8 vs F9
On Wed, Aug 13, 2008 at 14:08:00 -0500, Arthur Pemberton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Wed, Aug 13, 2008 at 1:56 PM, Lyvim Xaphir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Wed, 2008-08-13 at 09:42 +0100, Anne Wilson wrote: On Tuesday 12 August 2008 15:50, Lyvim Xaphir wrote: If you have ATI, F8 is the only way to go. F9 is not good for ATI cards, the ati drivers won't support any x server greater than 1.4.2. I presume you mean for accelerated desktop effects? Certainly for 'normal' use there is no problem. Normal is folks who want to get the money out of their hardware as opposed to a GNU cultist that's willing to accept substandard behavior in the driver You casually call them cultist, but you feel comfortable using their software? At least some of the ATI cards do get accelerated graphics in F9 using the drivers that come with Fedora. I have an r530 based card that works. It may not use all of the features of the card, but glxgears suggests that it works reasonably well. If anything, people with ATI cards should be trying F9 first and falling back only if they have problems and require 3D acceleration features. -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list
Re: F8 vs F9
On Wednesday 13 August 2008 19:56, Lyvim Xaphir wrote: On Wed, 2008-08-13 at 09:42 +0100, Anne Wilson wrote: On Tuesday 12 August 2008 15:50, Lyvim Xaphir wrote: If you have ATI, F8 is the only way to go. F9 is not good for ATI cards, the ati drivers won't support any x server greater than 1.4.2. I presume you mean for accelerated desktop effects? Certainly for 'normal' use there is no problem. Normal is folks who want to get the money out of their hardware as opposed to a GNU cultist that's willing to accept substandard behavior in the driver No idea what you are talking about, Lyvim. I tend to make my hardware last a long time, and I certainly don't fit the description in that sentence. Despite that I have had no problems whatsoever with an ATi card. I qualify it only in that I have not had any interest in compiz etc., and I do know that some people have had problems there - probably most ATi users. KDE4 really is a disaster so far, it looks like a dumbed down gnome. Utter rubbish. According to Queene Anne? BFD. According to someone who prefers facts to slurs. KDE4 is not yet complete, but 95% of most people's needs are now available. If you prefer not to learn a new way of working that's your choice, but don't insult those of us to are willing to learn. F8 features the last mature version of kde, which is 3.5, and it's pretty robust. Nothing wrong with 3.5, but remember that if you install F8 now it will be unsupported in a very short time. That depends on who's doing the supporting. No it doesn't. Most people are absolutely dependent on the distro provider's support. Many could, at a pinch, do it themselves, but have better things to do with their time. Anne -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list
Re: F8 vs F9
On Wednesday 13 August 2008 20:38, Bruno Wolff III wrote: On Wed, Aug 13, 2008 at 14:08:00 -0500, Arthur Pemberton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Wed, Aug 13, 2008 at 1:56 PM, Lyvim Xaphir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Wed, 2008-08-13 at 09:42 +0100, Anne Wilson wrote: On Tuesday 12 August 2008 15:50, Lyvim Xaphir wrote: If you have ATI, F8 is the only way to go. F9 is not good for ATI cards, the ati drivers won't support any x server greater than 1.4.2. I presume you mean for accelerated desktop effects? Certainly for 'normal' use there is no problem. Normal is folks who want to get the money out of their hardware as opposed to a GNU cultist that's willing to accept substandard behavior in the driver You casually call them cultist, but you feel comfortable using their software? At least some of the ATI cards do get accelerated graphics in F9 using the drivers that come with Fedora. I have an r530 based card that works. It may not use all of the features of the card, but glxgears suggests that it works reasonably well. If anything, people with ATI cards should be trying F9 first and falling back only if they have problems and require 3D acceleration features. I have read several reviews which suggest that we should not write them off, despite problems in the past. The recent problems with NVidia cards and KDE4 show just how complex the problems are. NV acknowledge the problem to be theirs. Not because they have been negligent, and not because KDE4 does something wrong, but because new boundaries are being stretched, and routines that the boards were supposed to support had never actually seen any heavy use before. NV and NV users will gain from these insights, but temporarily there is a problem with some of their newest cards. Anne -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list
Re: F8 vs F9
On Wednesday 13 August 2008 20:04, Ric Moore wrote: Utter rubbish. The user is entitled to an opinion, Anne. He is entirely within his rights to have an opinion. He is not correct in making an absolute statement without any facts to back it up. I know you and others are working hard on it, but there is plenty of users who just plain don't like the change. Me included. That's human as it's another learning curve on top of many other learning curves. Anything with a spinal cord will turn from pain. :) Ric I have no problem with him not liking it. My problem is when he spreads FUD. Anne -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list
Re: F8 vs F9
On Wed, 2008-08-13 at 14:08 -0500, Arthur Pemberton wrote: On Wed, Aug 13, 2008 at 1:56 PM, Lyvim Xaphir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Wed, 2008-08-13 at 09:42 +0100, Anne Wilson wrote: On Tuesday 12 August 2008 15:50, Lyvim Xaphir wrote: If you have ATI, F8 is the only way to go. F9 is not good for ATI cards, the ati drivers won't support any x server greater than 1.4.2. I presume you mean for accelerated desktop effects? Certainly for 'normal' use there is no problem. Normal is folks who want to get the money out of their hardware as opposed to a GNU cultist that's willing to accept substandard behavior in the driver You casually call them cultist, but you feel comfortable using their software? First of all, it's not the property of the cultists, it's everybodys property. Second of all, you astonishingly make the assumption that the only ones contributing are those that drink the GNU kool aid and go to the GNU dark masses. Third, there are companies contributing to this effort; Nvidia, AMD/ATI and others; they too are not part and parcel to the GNU zealots, but have been victimized by it to a large degree. LX -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list
Re: F8 vs F9
On Wed, 2008-08-13 at 22:04 +0100, Anne Wilson wrote: On Wednesday 13 August 2008 19:56, Lyvim Xaphir wrote: On Wed, 2008-08-13 at 09:42 +0100, Anne Wilson wrote: On Tuesday 12 August 2008 15:50, Lyvim Xaphir wrote: If you have ATI, F8 is the only way to go. F9 is not good for ATI cards, the ati drivers won't support any x server greater than 1.4.2. I presume you mean for accelerated desktop effects? Certainly for 'normal' use there is no problem. Normal is folks who want to get the money out of their hardware as opposed to a GNU cultist that's willing to accept substandard behavior in the driver No idea what you are talking about, Lyvim. I tend to make my hardware last a long time, and I certainly don't fit the description in that sentence. Despite that I have had no problems whatsoever with an ATi card. I qualify it only in that I have not had any interest in compiz etc., and I do know that some people have had problems there - probably most ATi users. KDE4 really is a disaster so far, it looks like a dumbed down gnome. Utter rubbish. According to Queene Anne? BFD. According to someone who prefers facts to slurs. KDE4 is not yet complete, but 95% of most people's needs are now available. If you prefer not to learn a new way of working that's your choice, but don't insult those of us to are willing to learn. While you on the other hand need to learn some respect with others that have a different opinion than yours; if you don't want a snippy response, then watch what comes out of your keyboard. Don't start an insult and then get on the red carpet with a crown saying you've been insulted. Just cause you ride high with your own opinion doesn't mean I happen to share it; I've got F9 here and it looks like a gnome regression. It's not KDE anymore, it's gnome, with the accompanying lack of sophistication. That might change but as of right now that's the way it is. Fangirl sophistry and drama don't substitute for technical evaluation. Neither does GNU Flagellant cultism. F8 features the last mature version of kde, which is 3.5, and it's pretty robust. Nothing wrong with 3.5, but remember that if you install F8 now it will be unsupported in a very short time. That depends on who's doing the supporting. No it doesn't. Yes it does. Anne LX -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list
Re: F8 vs F9
On Wed, 2008-08-13 at 17:55 -0400, Lyvim Xaphir wrote: First of all, it's not the property of the cultists, it's everybodys property. Second of all, you astonishingly make the assumption that the only ones contributing are those that drink the GNU kool aid and go to the GNU dark masses. Third, there are companies contributing to this effort; Nvidia, AMD/ATI and others; they too are not part and parcel to the GNU zealots, but have been victimized by it to a large degree. and I was thinking that you were utterly pointless but now I get it...you are trying to save the world from the evils of GNU Craig -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list
Re: F8 vs F9
On Wed, Aug 13, 2008 at 4:55 PM, Lyvim Xaphir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Wed, 2008-08-13 at 14:08 -0500, Arthur Pemberton wrote: On Wed, Aug 13, 2008 at 1:56 PM, Lyvim Xaphir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Wed, 2008-08-13 at 09:42 +0100, Anne Wilson wrote: On Tuesday 12 August 2008 15:50, Lyvim Xaphir wrote: If you have ATI, F8 is the only way to go. F9 is not good for ATI cards, the ati drivers won't support any x server greater than 1.4.2. I presume you mean for accelerated desktop effects? Certainly for 'normal' use there is no problem. Normal is folks who want to get the money out of their hardware as opposed to a GNU cultist that's willing to accept substandard behavior in the driver You casually call them cultist, but you feel comfortable using their software? First of all, it's not the property of the cultists, it's everybodys property. I don' know about that. I do know that it is their efforts however. What have you done? -- Fedora 7 : sipping some of that moonshine ( www.pembo13.com ) -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list
Re: F8 vs F9
You casually call them cultist, but you feel comfortable using their software? First of all, it's not the property of the cultists, it's everybodys property. Second of all, you astonishingly make the assumption that the only ones contributing are those that drink the GNU kool aid and go to the GNU dark masses. It might be everybody's property, but you cannot do everything what you want with it :( Is this discussion somewhat a continuation of the GNU/Linux epic battle or it is a continuation of the KDE 4 vs KDE 3.5 series? Where were you when that battle(GNU/Linux, Linux, GNU+Linux controversy) was going on? humor Where do they sell/give away GNU Kool Aid? I have gone to many stores like Wal-Mart, HEB and I see regular Kool Aid, but no GNU/Kool Aid? Ahhh it is available from RMS? /humor Third, there are companies contributing to this effort; Nvidia, AMD/ATI and others; they too are not part and parcel to the GNU zealots, but have been victimized by it to a large degree. LX -- Cheers! Antonio -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list
Re: F8 vs F9
On Tuesday 12 August 2008 07:05:12 am Mike -- EMAIL IGNORED wrote: I need to install a few new systems in the next few weeks. My requirements are: apache; C++ code development; netfilter; KDE; openvpn; and above all, stability. I have heard a rumor that I might be better off with F8 than F9. Is this true? Thanks, Mike. based on my own experience, if you want ease and stability rhel or centos. dave -- In modern fantasy (literary or governmental), killing people is the usual solution to the so-called war between good and evil. My books are not conceived in terms of such a war, and offer no simple answers to simplistic questions. -- Ursula K. LeGuin -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list
Re: F8 vs F9
On Wed, 2008-08-13 at 15:10 -0700, Craig White wrote: On Wed, 2008-08-13 at 17:55 -0400, Lyvim Xaphir wrote: First of all, it's not the property of the cultists, it's everybodys property. Second of all, you astonishingly make the assumption that the only ones contributing are those that drink the GNU kool aid and go to the GNU dark masses. Third, there are companies contributing to this effort; Nvidia, AMD/ATI and others; they too are not part and parcel to the GNU zealots, but have been victimized by it to a large degree. and I was thinking that you were utterly pointless but now I get it...you are trying to save the world from the evils of GNU Craig Not really the evils of GNU, but rather the people that use GNU for evil. Interpretation is broad until you get to court; unfortunately, in court, precedent carries great weight. LX -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list
Re: F8 vs F9
Mike -- EMAIL IGNORED wrote: I need to install a few new systems in the next few weeks. My requirements are: apache; C++ code development; netfilter; KDE; openvpn; and above all, stability. I have heard a rumor that I might be better off with F8 than F9. Is this true? The answer is either yes, no, or maybe. And you get 10 points for asking one of the silliest questions I've seen asked her in quite some time. -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list
Re: F8 vs F9
Ed Greshko wrote: The answer is either yes, no, or maybe. And you get 10 points for asking one of the silliest questions I've seen asked her in quite some time. Why is it silly? I think it's personally a good one to ask especially where stability is concerned. We all know F9 is 'bleeding edge' or thereabouts and sometimes that's not acceptable for certain uses. Sure, he can purchase and enterprise level OS if he wants, but if he doesn't, why not ask that question. I think he's more asking 'Is F9 getting more stable now than at it's release?' than anything else. My $0.02, I think F9 would work fine at this point in it's lifecycle for what you are looking to do. It seems to be very stable with most everything you are asking about, although I don't do any development on it, nor use any VPN software. HTH. -- Libenter homines id quod volunt credunt -- Caius Julius Caesar Mark Haney Sr. Systems Administrator ERC Broadband (828) 350-2415 Call (866) ERC-7110 for after hours support -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list
RE: F8 vs F9
It sounded like a reasonable question to me. Who knows if this guy is new to this group (or even Linux) but non-friendly answers are a good way to send a newbie packing (and perpetuate the rumor that Linux is non-friendly to a new user). Mike...in the FWIW department, I have F9 running on 12 machines and have had very little trouble. Arch -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ed Greshko Sent: Tuesday, August 12, 2008 10:26 AM To: For users of Fedora Subject: Re: F8 vs F9 Mike -- EMAIL IGNORED wrote: I need to install a few new systems in the next few weeks. My requirements are: apache; C++ code development; netfilter; KDE; openvpn; and above all, stability. I have heard a rumor that I might be better off with F8 than F9. Is this true? The answer is either yes, no, or maybe. And you get 10 points for asking one of the silliest questions I've seen asked her in quite some time. -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list
Re: F8 vs F9
I need to install a few new systems in the next few weeks. My requirements are: apache; C++ code development; netfilter; KDE; openvpn; and above all, stability. I have heard a rumor that I might be better off with F8 than F9. Is this true? I'm still running F8 as my primary system because F9 is so annoying, but F9 has certainly improved with updates (and with nvidia drivers becoming available) since the release. My main blocker with F9 now is that I haven't yet figured out how to rip pulseaudio out and get alsa functioning again. There are certainly a vast number of KDE users screaming about KDE 4 and wanting 3.5 back (but I merely note that I've seen those messages in the list - I don't use KDE myself). -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list
Re: F8 vs F9
On Tue, 2008-08-12 at 14:05 +, Mike -- EMAIL IGNORED wrote: I need to install a few new systems in the next few weeks. My requirements are: apache; C++ code development; netfilter; KDE; openvpn; and above all, stability. I have heard a rumor that I might be better off with F8 than F9. Is this true? Thanks, Mike. If you have ATI, F8 is the only way to go. F9 is not good for ATI cards, the ati drivers won't support any x server greater than 1.4.2. KDE4 really is a disaster so far, it looks like a dumbed down gnome. F8 features the last mature version of kde, which is 3.5, and it's pretty robust. There's other things, but yeah, F8 is a sweet spot. LX -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list
Re: F8 vs F9
Tom Horsley wrote: since the release. My main blocker with F9 now is that I haven't yet figured out how to rip pulseaudio out and get alsa functioning again. I've never managed to get pulse-audio working (although TBH I haven't tried very hard), so I just do a yum remove pulse* and that's always fixed the problem for me, alsa just seems to work after that - on F8 and F9. -- Chris -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list
Re: F8 vs F9
On Tue, Aug 12, 2008 at 7:05 AM, Mike -- EMAIL IGNORED [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I need to install a few new systems in the next few weeks. My requirements are: apache; C++ code development; netfilter; KDE; openvpn; and above all, stability. I have heard a rumor that I might be better off with F8 than F9. Is this true? Thanks, Mike. You know, those on this list may beat me up for this, but if you're looking for stability and least fuss, I'd suggest CentOS instead. As someone else pointed out, Fedora is for people who want to get their hands dirty and try out the bleeding edge - and it doesn't sound like that's what you're after. Guys, I'm not dissing you, just suggesting what I think is the right tool for the job. Not everything is a nail. :-) --Russell -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list
Re: F8 vs F9
On Tue, Aug 12, 2008 at 8:01 AM, Christopher Mocock [EMAIL PROTECTED]wrote: Tom Horsley wrote: since the release. My main blocker with F9 now is that I haven't yet figured out how to rip pulseaudio out and get alsa functioning again. I've never managed to get pulse-audio working (although TBH I haven't tried very hard), so I just do a yum remove pulse* and that's always fixed the problem for me, alsa just seems to work after that - on F8 and F9. It might bea permissions problem... I found that by changing the ownership on the alsa device files to root:pulse-rt and adding your local user to pulse-rt, it started working. Someone is insisting that's not a bug, which does not make me happy. --Russell -- Chris -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list
Re: F8 vs F9
On Tue, 12 Aug 2008 22:25:31 +0800, Ed Greshko wrote: Mike -- EMAIL IGNORED wrote: I need to install a few new systems in the next few weeks. My requirements are: apache; C++ code development; netfilter; KDE; openvpn; and above all, stability. I have heard a rumor that I might be better off with F8 than F9. Is this true? The answer is either yes, no, or maybe. And you get 10 points for asking one of the silliest questions I've seen asked her in quite some time. A long time ago I worked for a very large company whose name you would recognize and for those who have worked there, whose name commands respect. I worked in assembly language on control systems whose failure could rapidly cost dollars counted in millions, and potentially be quite dangerous to human life. On their control systems, the only operating systems they allowed were long obsolete, and very well understood. The idea that perhaps one should upgrade to the latest system would be met with an incredulous stare. (I remember once entering my boss's office with the question: Is anything interesting happening?. He responded: God, I hope not!.) To the others respondents: Thanks for your helpful comments. I'll wait for more, especially on KDE and maybe openvpn. (But, then, my present web server has no GUI at all.) Mike. -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list
Re: F8 vs F9
On Tue, 2008-08-12 at 08:05 -0700, Russell Miller wrote: On Tue, Aug 12, 2008 at 7:05 AM, Mike -- EMAIL IGNORED [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I need to install a few new systems in the next few weeks. My requirements are: apache; C++ code development; netfilter; KDE; openvpn; and above all, stability. I have heard a rumor that I might be better off with F8 than F9. Is this true? Thanks, Mike. You know, those on this list may beat me up for this, but if you're looking for stability and least fuss, I'd suggest CentOS instead. As someone else pointed out, Fedora is for people who want to get their hands dirty and try out the bleeding edge - and it doesn't sound like that's what you're after. Guys, I'm not dissing you, just suggesting what I think is the right tool for the job. Not everything is a nail. :-) I think Russell has hit this one on the head. Mike, you say above all, stability. That in my mind, does not equate with the newness that Fedora strives for. Also, bear in mind, that while you might be picking F8 today, it will be gone in less than six months. If you need support or certification, pony up for Red Hat Enterprise Linux. If you do not need support, nor certification, but still want the long term stability, choose CentOS. If you want to help move the open source community along, need to access latest versions of certain elements, or are just a Linux enthusiast who wants to play, then Fedora is the platform for you. --Rob -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list
Re: F8 vs F9
Russell Miller wrote: You know, those on this list may beat me up for this, but if you're looking for stability and least fuss, I'd suggest CentOS instead. As someone else pointed out, Fedora is for people who want to get their hands dirty and try out the bleeding edge - and it doesn't sound like that's what you're after. Guys, I'm not dissing you, just suggesting what I think is the right tool for the job. Not everything is a nail. :-) --Russell Why would you get beat up? It is an entirely reasonable suggestion. Fedora and CentOS target different requirements. CentOS would not meet my requirements, but I enjoy tinkering under the hood, and things sometimes breaking is only an inconvenience. Mikkel -- Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for thou art crunchy and taste good with Ketchup! signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list
Re: F8 vs F9
On Tue, 2008-08-12 at 08:05 -0700, Russell Miller wrote: On Tue, Aug 12, 2008 at 7:05 AM, Mike -- EMAIL IGNORED [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I need to install a few new systems in the next few weeks. My requirements are: apache; C++ code development; netfilter; KDE; openvpn; and above all, stability. I have heard a rumor that I might be better off with F8 than F9. Is this true? Thanks, Mike. You know, those on this list may beat me up for this, but if you're looking for stability and least fuss, I'd suggest CentOS instead. As someone else pointed out, Fedora is for people who want to get their hands dirty and try out the bleeding edge - and it doesn't sound like that's what you're after. This is absolutely right. I run F9 on my desktop but my institution's servers run on CentOS and that's not going to change. I wish more people would understand that Fedora is basically a testbed, then we might get a lower rate of this-damn-thing-doesn't-work-I'm-moving-to-Ubuntu messages. poc -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list
Re: F8 vs F9
Russell Miller wrote: It might bea permissions problem... I found that by changing the ownership on the alsa device files to root:pulse-rt and adding your local user to pulse-rt, it started working. Someone is insisting that's not a bug, which does not make me happy. Thanks. I did try that on Fedora 8 when I actually put some effort into investigating, with no success, but haven't tried again on F9. Might give it another go tonight. -- Chris -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list
Re: F8 vs F9
Christopher Mocock wrote: Russell Miller wrote: It might be permissions problem... I found that by changing the ownership on the alsa device files to root:pulse-rt and adding your local user to pulse-rt, it started working. Someone is insisting that's not a bug, which does not make me happy. Thanks. I did try that on Fedora 8 when I actually put some effort into investigating, with no success, but haven't tried again on F9. Might give it another go tonight. The strange thing, at least for me, is that it works on the three systems I have installed it on without changing anything. All three have different hardware - 2 desktops and one laptop. Mikkel -- Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for thou art crunchy and taste good with Ketchup! signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list
Re: F8 vs F9
Em Ter 12 Ago 2008, Mike -- EMAIL IGNORED escreveu: I need to install a few new systems in the next few weeks. My requirements are: apache; C++ code development; netfilter; KDE; openvpn; and above all, stability. I have heard a rumor that I might be better off with F8 than F9. Is this true? I, for one, would stay with F8 and KDE 3.5.9 for a while. KDE 4.1 is now much better than KDE 4.0 released with F9, but it's still far from finished and much of the functionality of 3.5.9 is not available yet. Also, there are many really annoying bugs waiting for fixes. I'm currently using KDE 4.1 on F9, but if there was an easy way to go back to F8 and KDE 3.5.9, I certainly would. []'s Marcelo -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list
Re: F8 vs F9
On Tuesday 12 August 2008 19:54, Marcelo Magno T. Sales wrote: Em Ter 12 Ago 2008, Mike -- EMAIL IGNORED escreveu: I need to install a few new systems in the next few weeks. My requirements are: apache; C++ code development; netfilter; KDE; openvpn; and above all, stability. I have heard a rumor that I might be better off with F8 than F9. Is this true? I, for one, would stay with F8 and KDE 3.5.9 for a while. KDE 4.1 is now much better than KDE 4.0 released with F9, but it's still far from finished and much of the functionality of 3.5.9 is not available yet. Also, there are many really annoying bugs waiting for fixes. I'm currently using KDE 4.1 on F9, but if there was an easy way to go back to F8 and KDE 3.5.9, I certainly would. []'s Marcelo I'd downloaded the 6 cd iso's on dialup for Fedora 9, but hadn't got around to installing it, as there were updates waiting for other distros. I updated my Archlinux install, which was going to upgrade KDE 3.5.9 to KDE 4.1. Stupidly, looking back on it, I let the upgrade go ahead, and ended up with a KDE4 desktop that was virtually unuseable compared to my KDE 3.5.9 one. I could give a huge list of problems with KDE4, but the first that I noticed is that the sound had stopped working. That is a real no no for me, as the first thing I check on a new install is that the sound works. Going through the hoops a bit, I removed KDE4, and thankfully Archlinux has a kdemod repo, and I've been able to re-install KDE 3.5.9. I now have the desktop I'm used to, but still no sounds. I'm on the way to getting the sounds fixed though. I somehow I believe that Kubuntu/Ubuntu have dealt with KDE4 in the best way. Kubuntu Hardy Heron 8.04 has KDE 3.5.9 as default, but with the option of installing KDE4. That way you could install Hardy Heron with the default KDE 3.5.9, and if you have sufficient harddrive space, also install another instance of Hardy Heron, and install KDE4, and see how you get on with it. 2¢ worth of observations, and comments. Nigel. -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list
Re: F8 vs F9
On Tue, Aug 12, 2008 at 3:08 PM, Nigel Henry [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Tuesday 12 August 2008 19:54, Marcelo Magno T. Sales wrote: Em Ter 12 Ago 2008, Mike -- EMAIL IGNORED escreveu: I need to install a few new systems in the next few weeks. My requirements are: apache; C++ code development; netfilter; KDE; openvpn; and above all, stability. I have heard a rumor that I might be better off with F8 than F9. Is this true? I, for one, would stay with F8 and KDE 3.5.9 for a while. KDE 4.1 is now much better than KDE 4.0 released with F9, but it's still far from finished and much of the functionality of 3.5.9 is not available yet. Also, there are many really annoying bugs waiting for fixes. I'm currently using KDE 4.1 on F9, but if there was an easy way to go back to F8 and KDE 3.5.9, I certainly would. []'s Marcelo I'd downloaded the 6 cd iso's on dialup for Fedora 9, but hadn't got around to installing it, as there were updates waiting for other distros. I updated my Archlinux install, which was going to upgrade KDE 3.5.9 to KDE 4.1. Stupidly, looking back on it, I let the upgrade go ahead, and ended up with a KDE4 desktop that was virtually unuseable compared to my KDE 3.5.9 one. I could give a huge list of problems with KDE4, but the first that I noticed is that the sound had stopped working. That is a real no no for me, as the first thing I check on a new install is that the sound works. How exactly did you pair the problem of sound not working with KDE4 ? -- Fedora 7 : sipping some of that moonshine ( www.pembo13.com ) -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list
Re: F8 vs F9
Mark Haney wrote: Ed Greshko wrote: The answer is either yes, no, or maybe. And you get 10 points for asking one of the silliest questions I've seen asked her in quite some time. Why is it silly? Basically because it doesn't have enough detail. It doesn't tell us what versions of the particular software you need (feature requirements). Nor, does it go into any details about the rumor. So, that leaves everyone free to determine what the rumor is and base their responses on their interpretation. Also, the term stability is subject to interpretation as well. Then there is the life cycle question. Is Fedora really right for this project? Will the relatively quick release cycles for Fedora and the subsequent lack of updates present a problem in the future? And on, and on. I think it's personally a good one to ask especially where stability is concerned. We all know F9 is 'bleeding edge' or thereabouts and sometimes that's not acceptable for certain uses. Sure, he can purchase and enterprise level OS if he wants, but if he doesn't, why not ask that question. I think he's more asking 'Is F9 getting more stable now than at it's release?' than anything else. My $0.02, I think F9 would work fine at this point in it's lifecycle for what you are looking to do. It seems to be very stable with most everything you are asking about, although I don't do any development on it, nor use any VPN software. HTH. -- Tax reform means Don't tax you, don't tax me, tax that fellow behind the tree. -- Russell Long -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list
Re: F8 vs F9
On Tuesday 12 August 2008 09:05:13 am Russell Miller wrote: On Tue, Aug 12, 2008 at 7:05 AM, Mike -- EMAIL IGNORED [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I need to install a few new systems in the next few weeks. My requirements are: apache; C++ code development; netfilter; KDE; openvpn; and above all, stability. I have heard a rumor that I might be better off with F8 than F9. Is this true? Thanks, Mike. You know, those on this list may beat me up for this, but if you're looking for stability and least fuss, I'd suggest CentOS instead. As someone else pointed out, Fedora is for people who want to get their hands dirty and try out the bleeding edge - and it doesn't sound like that's what you're after. Guys, I'm not dissing you, just suggesting what I think is the right tool for the job. Not everything is a nail. :-) How do you install CentOS onto a pre-existing XFS partition? Thanks, John -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list
