Re: F10: Unrequested automatic installation ::rant
On Sunday, 07 Dec 2008 08:57:55 +, Richard Hughes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote : > On Fri, 2008-12-05 at 18:37 -0500, lanas wrote: > > I'm suprised this packagekit-whatever default behaviour went into > > production w/o anyone raising a red light. Even if it's a bug. > > truly surprising. > Not a bug, quite deliberate. PackageKit depending on preupgrade would > have made the install media too big to fit on a CDROM. If you don't > like this behaviour, please file a bug, although now we have the > distro data on a mirror (and not in a package), we'll do this > differently for F11. I'll eventually check it out in F11 I guess (not certain). For now, F10 is out, at work and at home. I had a few annoyances that I was thinking to perhaps spend time with, but that stealth update was the last drop. Heck, I even have the Windows game machine at home installed w/o its TCP stack so that no network unknowns would be going on. A bit drastic, I agree, but now, A Linux machine doing the same and without asking before the first time ? No thank you. I gets tolerated here and then what, propagate as a 'good idea' to other distros ? -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: F10: Unrequested automatic installation ::rant
On Sun, 2008-12-07 at 08:57 +, Richard Hughes wrote: > On Fri, 2008-12-05 at 18:37 -0500, lanas wrote: > > I'm suprised this packagekit-whatever default behaviour went into > > production w/o anyone raising a red light. Even if it's a bug. truly > > surprising. > > Not a bug, quite deliberate. PackageKit depending on preupgrade would > have made the install media too big to fit on a CDROM. If you don't like > this behaviour, please file a bug, although now we have the distro data > on a mirror (and not in a package), we'll do this differently for F11. > It should have still "asked", particularly when the default settings on people's machines are set to: "Automatic install: Nothing" This "stealth mode" install, regardless of it's good intent and/or necessity, is NOT something to be expected in Linux. So, I was under the impression (from fedora-devel), this was not going to happen again, but where would you like the bug filed? And, the bug is not a concern about the "need" for these three packages (which seems to be your focus in the above reply), but rather the behavior of installing things when your own settings say not to! --Rob -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: F10: Unrequested automatic installation ::rant
On Fri, 2008-12-05 at 18:37 -0500, lanas wrote: > I'm suprised this packagekit-whatever default behaviour went into > production w/o anyone raising a red light. Even if it's a bug. truly > surprising. Not a bug, quite deliberate. PackageKit depending on preupgrade would have made the install media too big to fit on a CDROM. If you don't like this behaviour, please file a bug, although now we have the distro data on a mirror (and not in a package), we'll do this differently for F11. Richard. -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: F10: Unrequested automatic installation ::rant
Tom Horsley wrote: I'm suprised this packagekit-whatever default behaviour went into production w/o anyone raising a red light. Even if it's a bug. truly surprising. Ah, but it is highly unsafe for users to login as root because that might cause you to open up your system to unwanted modifications. Much better to have random root daemons running around behind your back modifying your system instead :-). The only exception is when you are running a home system with only a total of 2 or 3 users and all of the software administration is done strictly by one user. I don't like having very many "background" daemons running if possible (one of the many reasons I dumped Windows) but dedicate background work to very specific run times so as to not unnecessarily tie up system resources that are needed elsewhere. This is why I haven't upgraded past F8 because this problem seems to be getting worse, not better. Right now I have my system streamlined close to how I want it to run and I don't want to start over from scratch with unfamiliar packages. I loathe upgrades if you haven't guessed. I feel better getting that off of my chest Bradley -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: F10: Unrequested automatic installation ::rant
> I'm suprised this packagekit-whatever default behaviour went into > production w/o anyone raising a red light. Even if it's a bug. > truly surprising. Ah, but it is highly unsafe for users to login as root because that might cause you to open up your system to unwanted modifications. Much better to have random root daemons running around behind your back modifying your system instead :-). -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: F10: Unrequested automatic installation ::rant
Le Sat, 6 Dec 2008 03:04:10 +, dexter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> a écrit : > 2008/12/5 lanas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > > On Fri, 05 Dec 2008 08:56:00 -0500, > > Robert Locke <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote : > > > >> This morning after booting and logging in, a little bubble opened > >> in the lower right hand corner that said some updates were > >> complete. I had not requested any updates. Previous updates had > >> all been done by me typing "yum update" in a gnome-terminal. > > > > OK. Microsoft gave $500 millions to Novell for SuSE. How much did > > they gave to Red Hat, do I ask cynically ? > > > > Or worse, is this the result of Windows programmers moving to work > > on Linux bringing along their great ideas ? > > > > If it goes on like that in 3 years from now, major Linux distros > > will have too many similarities with Windows, and will share the > > Windows problems of today. All that's left is to remove that darn > > root account or better (!), have users always with root privileges. > > > > But since Linux is what it is, there'll be hope in 'rebel', > > rock-solid alternative distros that do not push by default > > unwanted system behaviours to users and stick to proven basics. > > And that doesn't exclude compiz. > > > > I'm suprised this packagekit-whatever default behaviour went into > > production w/o anyone raising a red light. Even if it's a bug. > > truly surprising. > > > > And how does it update the system exactly w/o root account ? Or > > does this GUI thing runs always as root with access to both the > > system and the internet w/o users knowing it ? > > > > My rant. > > > > Cheers. > > These people need to here this: > https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-devel-list/2008-December/msg00431.html Then, to the question that perhaps a dialog box would improve things, a Fedora guy replied: "What would you want the dialog box to say?" I have a few things in mind, but to write these I would have to leave the range of alphanumeirc keys. Cheers. -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: F10: Unrequested automatic installation ::rant
2008/12/5 lanas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > On Fri, 05 Dec 2008 08:56:00 -0500, > Robert Locke <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote : > >> This morning after booting and logging in, a little bubble opened in >> the lower right hand corner that said some updates were complete. I >> had not requested any updates. Previous updates had all been done by >> me typing "yum update" in a gnome-terminal. > > OK. Microsoft gave $500 millions to Novell for SuSE. How much did > they gave to Red Hat, do I ask cynically ? > > Or worse, is this the result of Windows programmers moving to work on > Linux bringing along their great ideas ? > > If it goes on like that in 3 years from now, major Linux distros will > have too many similarities with Windows, and will share the Windows > problems of today. All that's left is to remove that darn root account > or better (!), have users always with root privileges. > > But since Linux is what it is, there'll be hope in 'rebel', rock-solid > alternative distros that do not push by default unwanted system > behaviours to users and stick to proven basics. And that doesn't > exclude compiz. > > I'm suprised this packagekit-whatever default behaviour went into > production w/o anyone raising a red light. Even if it's a bug. truly > surprising. > > And how does it update the system exactly w/o root account ? Or does > this GUI thing runs always as root with access to both the system and > the internet w/o users knowing it ? > > My rant. > > Cheers. These people need to here this: https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-devel-list/2008-December/msg00431.html ...dex -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: F10: Unrequested automatic installation ::rant
On Fri, 05 Dec 2008 08:56:00 -0500, Robert Locke <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote : > This morning after booting and logging in, a little bubble opened in > the lower right hand corner that said some updates were complete. I > had not requested any updates. Previous updates had all been done by > me typing "yum update" in a gnome-terminal. OK. Microsoft gave $500 millions to Novell for SuSE. How much did they gave to Red Hat, do I ask cynically ? Or worse, is this the result of Windows programmers moving to work on Linux bringing along their great ideas ? If it goes on like that in 3 years from now, major Linux distros will have too many similarities with Windows, and will share the Windows problems of today. All that's left is to remove that darn root account or better (!), have users always with root privileges. But since Linux is what it is, there'll be hope in 'rebel', rock-solid alternative distros that do not push by default unwanted system behaviours to users and stick to proven basics. And that doesn't exclude compiz. I'm suprised this packagekit-whatever default behaviour went into production w/o anyone raising a red light. Even if it's a bug. truly surprising. And how does it update the system exactly w/o root account ? Or does this GUI thing runs always as root with access to both the system and the internet w/o users knowing it ? My rant. Cheers. -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: F10: Unrequested automatic installation
On Fri, 05 Dec 2008 11:00:36 -0500 Robert Locke wrote: > So, again, why were these three packages installed (not just updated) on > my system without my requesting it, shortly after a boot and login? I saw exactly the same thing with the same three packages on this computer as well. -- MELVILLE THEATRE ~ Melville Sask ~ http://www.melvilletheatre.com DRY CLEANER BUSINESS FOR SALE ~ http://www.canadadrycleanerforsale.com -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: F10: Unrequested automatic installation
Robert Locke wrote: On Fri, 2008-12-05 at 08:56 -0500, Robert Locke wrote: This seems unusual: Fresh install of F10 (from DVD) couple of days after release (28-Nov). I have added rpmfusion and livna repositories when the install was done. This morning after booting and logging in, a little bubble opened in the lower right hand corner that said some updates were complete. I had not requested any updates. Previous updates had all been done by me typing "yum update" in a gnome-terminal. Reviewing /var/log/yum.log to see what was installed I find the following: Dec 05 08:02:19 Installed: createrepo-0.9.6-3.fc10.noarch Dec 05 08:02:20 Installed: 1:anaconda-yum-plugins-1.0-3.fc10.noarch Dec 05 08:02:21 Installed: preupgrade-1.0.0-1.fc10.noarch Why were these packages automatically installed without me requesting them? Furthermore, I found the System-Preferences-System-Software Updates and it has been set to (what I presume the defaults are, since this is my first time in that dialog): Check for updates: Daily Automatic install: Nothing Check for major upgrades: Weekly Both Display notifications are checked/on So, again, why were these three packages installed (not just updated) on my system without my requesting it, shortly after a boot and login? What sinister things is PackageKit doing here? :-) --Rob It's tempting to "break" PackageKit so that it doesn't work anymore and see what happens. Bradley -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: F10: Unrequested automatic installation
--- On Fri, 12/5/08, Robert Locke <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > From: Robert Locke <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Subject: Re: F10: Unrequested automatic installation > To: "Community assistance, encouragement, and advice for using Fedora." > > Date: Friday, December 5, 2008, 4:09 PM > On Fri, 2008-12-05 at 15:43 +, Paul Smith wrote: > > On Fri, Dec 5, 2008 at 1:56 PM, Robert Locke > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > This seems unusual: > > > > > > Fresh install of F10 (from DVD) couple of days > after release (28-Nov). > > > > > > I have added rpmfusion and livna repositories > when the install was done. > > > > > > This morning after booting and logging in, a > little bubble opened in the > > > lower right hand corner that said some updates > were complete. I had not > > > requested any updates. Previous updates had all > been done by me typing > > > "yum update" in a gnome-terminal. > > > > > > Reviewing /var/log/yum.log to see what was > installed I find the > > > following: > > > > > > Dec 05 08:02:19 Installed: > createrepo-0.9.6-3.fc10.noarch > > > Dec 05 08:02:20 Installed: > 1:anaconda-yum-plugins-1.0-3.fc10.noarch > > > Dec 05 08:02:21 Installed: > preupgrade-1.0.0-1.fc10.noarch > > > > > > Why were these packages automatically installed > without me requesting > > > them? > > > > The same happened here. That was why I sent to the > list the post "How > > can one turn off automatic updates on F10?". Was > this unrequested > > automatic installation episodic? Or should one > configure something to > > avoid this automatic installations? > > > > I just posted in a reply to myself that it appears to be > configured > under System-Preferences-System-Software Updates. But mine > is > configured to Automatically install: Nothing, so I am > baffled why these > three packages were installed > > --Rob > > -- > fedora-list mailing list > fedora-list@redhat.com > To unsubscribe: > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list > Guidelines: > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines I had the identical problem after packagekit sneaked in. One day I woke up and had a new kernel.*** There is a dialog to make the facility passive but for some reason, it does not show up when I am logged in as user. I log in as root and there it is. There are two dialogs: (1) show history (2) control packagekit I set mine to "do nothing" so I still get alerts down in the panel! One that day I started getting a dialog after logging in as root saying one should not run packagekit as a privileged user. AND I didn't even ask for it! Recently there was an update to packagekit that reset my settings to automatic...do updates silently...and some stuff sneaked in! I always watch my yum update output -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: F10: Unrequested automatic installation
On Fri, 2008-12-05 at 15:43 +, Paul Smith wrote: > On Fri, Dec 5, 2008 at 1:56 PM, Robert Locke <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > This seems unusual: > > > > Fresh install of F10 (from DVD) couple of days after release (28-Nov). > > > > I have added rpmfusion and livna repositories when the install was done. > > > > This morning after booting and logging in, a little bubble opened in the > > lower right hand corner that said some updates were complete. I had not > > requested any updates. Previous updates had all been done by me typing > > "yum update" in a gnome-terminal. > > > > Reviewing /var/log/yum.log to see what was installed I find the > > following: > > > > Dec 05 08:02:19 Installed: createrepo-0.9.6-3.fc10.noarch > > Dec 05 08:02:20 Installed: 1:anaconda-yum-plugins-1.0-3.fc10.noarch > > Dec 05 08:02:21 Installed: preupgrade-1.0.0-1.fc10.noarch > > > > Why were these packages automatically installed without me requesting > > them? > > The same happened here. That was why I sent to the list the post "How > can one turn off automatic updates on F10?". Was this unrequested > automatic installation episodic? Or should one configure something to > avoid this automatic installations? > I just posted in a reply to myself that it appears to be configured under System-Preferences-System-Software Updates. But mine is configured to Automatically install: Nothing, so I am baffled why these three packages were installed --Rob -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: F10: Unrequested automatic installation
On Fri, 2008-12-05 at 08:56 -0500, Robert Locke wrote: > This seems unusual: > > Fresh install of F10 (from DVD) couple of days after release (28-Nov). > > I have added rpmfusion and livna repositories when the install was done. > > This morning after booting and logging in, a little bubble opened in the > lower right hand corner that said some updates were complete. I had not > requested any updates. Previous updates had all been done by me typing > "yum update" in a gnome-terminal. > > Reviewing /var/log/yum.log to see what was installed I find the > following: > > Dec 05 08:02:19 Installed: createrepo-0.9.6-3.fc10.noarch > Dec 05 08:02:20 Installed: 1:anaconda-yum-plugins-1.0-3.fc10.noarch > Dec 05 08:02:21 Installed: preupgrade-1.0.0-1.fc10.noarch > > Why were these packages automatically installed without me requesting > them? > Furthermore, I found the System-Preferences-System-Software Updates and it has been set to (what I presume the defaults are, since this is my first time in that dialog): Check for updates: Daily Automatic install: Nothing Check for major upgrades: Weekly Both Display notifications are checked/on So, again, why were these three packages installed (not just updated) on my system without my requesting it, shortly after a boot and login? What sinister things is PackageKit doing here? :-) --Rob -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: F10: Unrequested automatic installation
On Fri, Dec 5, 2008 at 1:56 PM, Robert Locke <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > This seems unusual: > > Fresh install of F10 (from DVD) couple of days after release (28-Nov). > > I have added rpmfusion and livna repositories when the install was done. > > This morning after booting and logging in, a little bubble opened in the > lower right hand corner that said some updates were complete. I had not > requested any updates. Previous updates had all been done by me typing > "yum update" in a gnome-terminal. > > Reviewing /var/log/yum.log to see what was installed I find the > following: > > Dec 05 08:02:19 Installed: createrepo-0.9.6-3.fc10.noarch > Dec 05 08:02:20 Installed: 1:anaconda-yum-plugins-1.0-3.fc10.noarch > Dec 05 08:02:21 Installed: preupgrade-1.0.0-1.fc10.noarch > > Why were these packages automatically installed without me requesting > them? The same happened here. That was why I sent to the list the post "How can one turn off automatic updates on F10?". Was this unrequested automatic installation episodic? Or should one configure something to avoid this automatic installations? Paul -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
