Re: Sunday Morning idle queries ??
William Case wrote: Thanks Patrick; Just a little note below that does not require a response. On Mon, 2008-07-07 at 08:12 -0430, Patrick O'Callaghan wrote: On Sun, 2008-07-06 at 13:05 -0400, William Case wrote: Hi Max and Patrick; On Sun, 2008-07-06 at 10:40 -0430, Patrick O'Callaghan wrote: On Sun, 2008-07-06 at 10:16 -0400, William Case wrote: Hi; [snip] I have been thinking about your suggestions all morning. I have decided to develop the following strategy. If you have a better suggestion let me know. 1) Start by using mainly cut and paste from wherever I can find info. 2) Using NoteCase in conjunction with FreeMind to begin organizing data conceptually and storing the details. 3) Begin with hardware (and perhaps the prerequisite drivers even if drivers are technically software) so that I can develop a basic understanding of the physical limitations and problems that software has to overcome for each different type of use. 4) As I go through the hardware list, perhaps I will pickup the applicability and use of various pieces of software. 5) So far I have the following list of hardware, off the top of my head, that seems to play a role: RJ45; Twisted Pair Cable CATV; Coaxial Cable USB Wireless NIC RAM (how used for sockets, caches, DMA etc. by media hardware) Audio Card/Chip Video Card/chip CD/DVD Drive CD Disk DVD Disk Digital Still Picture Camera Digital Video Camera WebCam TV Tuners Any suggestions of additions or deletions gratefully accepted. You'll end up writing the Encyclopedia of Computer Hardware. Very much off the top if my head, I think it would be better first to establish a frame of reference: start with a quick survey of the basic principles of digital media, such as the A/D and D/A conversion, compression and packetizing techniques, streaming, buffering and synchronization, then a discussion of the various popular wrapper formats (Quicktime, Real, Flash, DVD etc.). After that, you can get into specifics of how the multiple architectures that have evolved allow us to deal with all this (or not). I have popped your suggestions into my outline. I have to find out what A/D and D/A conversion is. (I haven't looked it up yet). Analog to digital, digital to analog. One and zeros vs. voltage, more or less. Actually, I have managed to read and cut and paste about half the hardware specs and/or data sheets since yesterday. It is not that difficult for me. I have traced already how basic I/O, how CPU and memory work; from wall plug to initd. I now know where to look for tutorials, manuals, data sheets and schematics for most computer hardware and software parts and pieces now. I have taught myself C so I could read source code. I used to make my living analyzing programs, policies and businesses; pulling them apart and putting them back together looking for logic gaps and then documenting my findings. I am retired so I have the time; and I enjoy coming to understand new things; and get extremely frustrated when I don't. If I keep everything focused on my own system, as it currently exists, it shouldn't be that difficult and could be useful to others. My system is no where out of the norm. Bragging a little; and putting things into perspective for me and you. -- Bill Davidsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> "We have more to fear from the bungling of the incompetent than from the machinations of the wicked." - from Slashdot -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list
Re: Sunday Morning idle queries ??
Thanks Patrick; Just a little note below that does not require a response. On Mon, 2008-07-07 at 08:12 -0430, Patrick O'Callaghan wrote: > On Sun, 2008-07-06 at 13:05 -0400, William Case wrote: > > Hi Max and Patrick; > > > > On Sun, 2008-07-06 at 10:40 -0430, Patrick O'Callaghan wrote: > > > On Sun, 2008-07-06 at 10:16 -0400, William Case wrote: > > > > Hi; > > > [snip] > > I have been thinking about your suggestions all morning. I have decided > > to develop the following strategy. If you have a better suggestion let > > me know. > > > > 1) Start by using mainly cut and paste from wherever I can find info. > > 2) Using NoteCase in conjunction with FreeMind to begin organizing data > > conceptually and storing the details. > > 3) Begin with hardware (and perhaps the prerequisite drivers even if > > drivers are technically software) so that I can develop a basic > > understanding of the physical limitations and problems that software has > > to overcome for each different type of use. > > 4) As I go through the hardware list, perhaps I will pickup the > > applicability and use of various pieces of software. > > 5) So far I have the following list of hardware, off the top of my head, > > that seems to play a role: > > RJ45; Twisted Pair Cable > > CATV; Coaxial Cable > > USB > > Wireless > > NIC > > RAM (how used for sockets, caches, DMA etc. by media hardware) > > Audio Card/Chip > > Video Card/chip > > CD/DVD Drive > > CD Disk > > DVD Disk > > Digital Still Picture Camera > > Digital Video Camera > > WebCam > > TV Tuners > > > > Any suggestions of additions or deletions gratefully accepted. > > You'll end up writing the Encyclopedia of Computer Hardware. Very much > off the top if my head, I think it would be better first to establish a > frame of reference: start with a quick survey of the basic principles of > digital media, such as the A/D and D/A conversion, compression and > packetizing techniques, streaming, buffering and synchronization, then a > discussion of the various popular wrapper formats (Quicktime, Real, > Flash, DVD etc.). After that, you can get into specifics of how the > multiple architectures that have evolved allow us to deal with all this > (or not). I have popped your suggestions into my outline. I have to find out what A/D and D/A conversion is. (I haven't looked it up yet). Actually, I have managed to read and cut and paste about half the hardware specs and/or data sheets since yesterday. It is not that difficult for me. I have traced already how basic I/O, how CPU and memory work; from wall plug to initd. I now know where to look for tutorials, manuals, data sheets and schematics for most computer hardware and software parts and pieces now. I have taught myself C so I could read source code. I used to make my living analyzing programs, policies and businesses; pulling them apart and putting them back together looking for logic gaps and then documenting my findings. I am retired so I have the time; and I enjoy coming to understand new things; and get extremely frustrated when I don't. If I keep everything focused on my own system, as it currently exists, it shouldn't be that difficult and could be useful to others. My system is no where out of the norm. Bragging a little; and putting things into perspective for me and you. -- Regards Bill; Fedora 9, Gnome 2.22.2 Evo.2.22.2, Emacs 22.2.1 -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list
Re: Sunday Morning idle queries ??
On Sun, 2008-07-06 at 13:05 -0400, William Case wrote: > Hi Max and Patrick; > > On Sun, 2008-07-06 at 10:40 -0430, Patrick O'Callaghan wrote: > > On Sun, 2008-07-06 at 10:16 -0400, William Case wrote: > > > Hi; > > > > Hi Bill, > > > > > Just wondering about a few things: > > > > > > 1) I noticed a program in the latest update list called 'augeas' for > > > editing config files. I have gone to their site etc.-- looks > > > interesting. Has anyone have experience using it and would like to > > > comment? > > > Installing it now to check it out. Nice idea, as long as they can keep > > the config file descriptions in sync with the various packages. > > > > Let me and others know how it turns out. Maybe when I figure it out. Unfortunately the documentation is, shall we say, spare. Maybe it'll improve with time. > > > 2) I have just installed kmod-nvidia from livnia. I have been watching > > > the discussion here on its effectiveness re: Xorg etc. It seems to work > > > fine for me. Now the question is: which is the best 3D application > > > (window manager??) to use with it? Compiz? > > > > No opinion. I presume if you have a fancy graphics card you got it for > > some sepcific reason, otherwise you don't need it. Nowadays onboard > > video chipsets are more than enough for everyday use, for many values of > > "everyday" (I can even run Compiz on my Intel 965, I just can't be > > bothered). > > > It wasn't purchased for a specific purpose. It is a C51PV GeForce 6150 > integrated in my newly installed M2NPV-VM motherboard. I just thought I > would try out 3D for a bit of time to see what I get. It's fun for a while, then you start wondering what's the point. Great for wowing your friends (and annoying those with Macs :-) but not really a great advance in usability IMHO. Maybe I just need to give it time ... > > > 3) My project for the next while is to work out how various multimedia > > > work. The more I delve into the subject the more confusing it gets. > > > I can find lots of info on the various pieces of hardware used, but then > > > what? How do various software components fit together e.g. gstreamer, > > > xine, Totem, ripping, burning, editing, codecs, audio (drivers), video > > > (drivers), etc., etc. Info and howtos on individual pieces of software > > > exist, but I can't seem to find anything online or a textbook that puts > > > it all together in an overview. Wikipedia, for example, is full of > > > stubs on this subject. > > > > Good luck with that (really). It's a definite hole that needs to be > > filled. I'm sure if you do it collaboratively, maybe as a Wiki, people > > will be glad to contribute what they know. > > I have been thinking about your suggestions all morning. I have decided > to develop the following strategy. If you have a better suggestion let > me know. > > 1) Start by using mainly cut and paste from wherever I can find info. > 2) Using NoteCase in conjunction with FreeMind to begin organizing data > conceptually and storing the details. > 3) Begin with hardware (and perhaps the prerequisite drivers even if > drivers are technically software) so that I can develop a basic > understanding of the physical limitations and problems that software has > to overcome for each different type of use. > 4) As I go through the hardware list, perhaps I will pickup the > applicability and use of various pieces of software. > 5) So far I have the following list of hardware, off the top of my head, > that seems to play a role: > RJ45; Twisted Pair Cable > CATV; Coaxial Cable > USB > Wireless > NIC > RAM (how used for sockets, caches, DMA etc. by media hardware) > Audio Card/Chip > Video Card/chip > CD/DVD Drive > CD Disk > DVD Disk > Digital Still Picture Camera > Digital Video Camera > WebCam > TV Tuners > > Any suggestions of additions or deletions gratefully accepted. You'll end up writing the Encyclopedia of Computer Hardware. Very much off the top if my head, I think it would be better first to establish a frame of reference: start with a quick survey of the basic principles of digital media, such as the A/D and D/A conversion, compression and packetizing techniques, streaming, buffering and synchronization, then a discussion of the various popular wrapper formats (Quicktime, Real, Flash, DVD etc.). After that, you can get into specifics of how the multiple architectures that have evolved allow us to deal with all this (or not). poc -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list
Re: Sunday Morning idle queries ??
On Sun, 06 Jul 2008 13:05:06 -0400 William Case <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >Any suggestions of additions or deletions gratefully accepted. I just remembered another thing for the general multimedia list: LIRC: http://www.lirc.org/ It is another thing I have to manually build the driver for (my noiseless computer case comes with a USB IR receiver: http://home.att.net/~Tom.Horsley/zooty/zooty.html). Not that I've ever gotten around to actually configuring any of the multimedia programs to talk to LIRC, but I like to have all the hardware working for the day I decide to start fooling with it :-). -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list
Re: Sunday Morning idle queries ??
On Sun, 06 Jul 2008 13:05:06 -0400 William Case <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > WebCam UVC is a (relatively) new standard for webcams. I see the latest fedora 8 kernel (and fedora 9) includes the uvcvideo driver by default (previously I had to build it myself). It seems to work fine for me with my logitech cam, and the theory behind standards is that all UVC compliant cams will work (insert insane chuckling here). The gotcha is determining which cams are UVC compliant - most manufacturers don't actually advertise it as a feature. On mine I discovered a support web page for macintosh that mentioned UVC compliance :-). The other gotcha with UVC is that the driver only supports version 2 of video for linux (V4L2), so only software that is V4L2 aware can talk to UVC video drivers (I guess linux decided they absolutely had to copy windows with the multiple incompatible versions of video for windows that Microsoft went through :-). -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list
Re: Sunday Morning idle queries ??
Hi Max and Patrick; On Sun, 2008-07-06 at 10:40 -0430, Patrick O'Callaghan wrote: > On Sun, 2008-07-06 at 10:16 -0400, William Case wrote: > > Hi; > > Hi Bill, > > > Just wondering about a few things: > > > > 1) I noticed a program in the latest update list called 'augeas' for > > editing config files. I have gone to their site etc.-- looks > > interesting. Has anyone have experience using it and would like to > > comment? > Installing it now to check it out. Nice idea, as long as they can keep > the config file descriptions in sync with the various packages. > Let me and others know how it turns out. > > 2) I have just installed kmod-nvidia from livnia. I have been watching > > the discussion here on its effectiveness re: Xorg etc. It seems to work > > fine for me. Now the question is: which is the best 3D application > > (window manager??) to use with it? Compiz? > > No opinion. I presume if you have a fancy graphics card you got it for > some sepcific reason, otherwise you don't need it. Nowadays onboard > video chipsets are more than enough for everyday use, for many values of > "everyday" (I can even run Compiz on my Intel 965, I just can't be > bothered). > It wasn't purchased for a specific purpose. It is a C51PV GeForce 6150 integrated in my newly installed M2NPV-VM motherboard. I just thought I would try out 3D for a bit of time to see what I get. > > 3) My project for the next while is to work out how various multimedia > > work. The more I delve into the subject the more confusing it gets. > > I can find lots of info on the various pieces of hardware used, but then > > what? How do various software components fit together e.g. gstreamer, > > xine, Totem, ripping, burning, editing, codecs, audio (drivers), video > > (drivers), etc., etc. Info and howtos on individual pieces of software > > exist, but I can't seem to find anything online or a textbook that puts > > it all together in an overview. Wikipedia, for example, is full of > > stubs on this subject. > > Good luck with that (really). It's a definite hole that needs to be > filled. I'm sure if you do it collaboratively, maybe as a Wiki, people > will be glad to contribute what they know. I have been thinking about your suggestions all morning. I have decided to develop the following strategy. If you have a better suggestion let me know. 1) Start by using mainly cut and paste from wherever I can find info. 2) Using NoteCase in conjunction with FreeMind to begin organizing data conceptually and storing the details. 3) Begin with hardware (and perhaps the prerequisite drivers even if drivers are technically software) so that I can develop a basic understanding of the physical limitations and problems that software has to overcome for each different type of use. 4) As I go through the hardware list, perhaps I will pickup the applicability and use of various pieces of software. 5) So far I have the following list of hardware, off the top of my head, that seems to play a role: RJ45; Twisted Pair Cable CATV; Coaxial Cable USB Wireless NIC RAM (how used for sockets, caches, DMA etc. by media hardware) Audio Card/Chip Video Card/chip CD/DVD Drive CD Disk DVD Disk Digital Still Picture Camera Digital Video Camera WebCam TV Tuners Any suggestions of additions or deletions gratefully accepted. 6) So far, my software list consists of: Drivers; not a analysis of specific drivers (unless necessary); but a discussion of generically what the driver for a hardware component should do. Licencing; ALSA; pulseAlsa gstreamer; Flash; As of yet, a very sparse list indeed. I am unsure of the relationship between various software components and sub-components (e.g. mySQL, Apache etc.). Fixing that lack of knowledge is, after all, the point of the exercise. Any tentative suggestions for main or generic types of software, preferably in some logical tree order, are not only welcome, but, in fact, begged for. I agree with Patrick, that if in fact, no one has yet put such a summary together, I should create a Wiki site. However, it is probably best that I assemble the basic information that is readily available first. References to the M$ Windows counterpart would be useful; although my main objective is for Linux, Windows seems to have been there first for most media uses and seems (from what I have read) to act as a touchstone for comparisons. Any quick remarks as to how these categories of investigation should line up will help get things started. Tom, I will organize quantum theory and end all war after I get this project done. -- Regards Bill; Fedora 9, Gnome 2.22.2 Evo.2.22.2, Emacs 22.2.1 -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list
Re: Sunday Morning idle queries ??
On Sun, 06 Jul 2008 10:16:39 -0400 William Case <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > 3) My project for the next while is to work out how various multimedia > work. I'd tackle something simpler if I were you, like maybe quantum theory or ending war. All I know is that the only tool that (so far) has worked on absolutely everything is 32 bit mplayer with every Windows codec I could find on the web stashed in /usr/lib/codecs/ (it works on an awful lot of stuff without the Windows codecs, but that last 10% need them). The part that goes really haywire is interfacing to audio. You'd think it might be simple to say "Hey, play this DVD and send the dolby sound bitstream out the optical SP/DIF interface.", but 6 weeks of web searches were needed for me to find the totally obvious (that's sarcasm :-) command sequence I needed: amixer set IEC958 unmute amixer set 'IEC958 Playback AC97-SPSA' 0 amixer set 'IEC958 Playback Source' PCM mplayer -ao alsa:device=hw=0.0 -ac hwdts,hwac3, Naturally, those obvious commands only work for my specific hardware given the specific device numbers allocated by the kernel, etc. Naturally, fedora 9 has changed audio so much that I haven't been able to discover how to make any of this work there (heck, maybe it is even simpler, but the last thing any linux developers ever do is provide documentation :-) And, of course, that only works for something like a DVD that has an already encoded bitstream available. To get my plain old mp3s to play out the SP/DIF port, I'd apparently have to become an international pirate and build my own version of alsa with support for illegal plugins to do PCM encoding :-). -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list
Re: Sunday Morning idle queries ??
On Sun, Jul 6, 2008 at 10:16 AM, William Case <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hi; > > Just wondering about a few things: > > 1) I noticed a program in the latest update list called 'augeas' for > editing config files. I have gone to their site etc.-- looks > interesting. Has anyone have experience using it and would like to > comment? > No and No. > 2) I have just installed kmod-nvidia from livnia. I have been watching > the discussion here on its effectiveness re: Xorg etc. It seems to work > fine for me. Now the question is: which is the best 3D application > (window manager??) to use with it? Compiz? I have never understood the appeal of wasting clock cycles on desktop 3d effects. They are of course your clock cycles to waste. > > 3) My project for the next while is to work out how various multimedia > work. The more I delve into the subject the more confusing it gets. > I can find lots of info on the various pieces of hardware used, but then > what? How do various software components fit together e.g. gstreamer, > xine, Totem, ripping, burning, editing, codecs, audio (drivers), video > (drivers), etc., etc. Info and howtos on individual pieces of software > exist, but I can't seem to find anything online or a textbook that puts > it all together in an overview. Wikipedia, for example, is full of > stubs on this subject. You are trying to understand the underlying system and how it relates to multimedia, I think. This is definitely the right approach in my not so humble opinion :^) Where to begin? That is a tough question. I would perhaps pick one program, like Totem or whatever, and focus on it. Go to the web pages, read the FAQs, join mailing lists dedicated to multimedia in general or your chosen program in particular, the last I think is most important, there you will find people that live and breathe this stuff. I don't know if you can program but learning a language and looking at the code, while it may seem a daunting task would probably answer alot of questions at least from a technical standpoint. Reasoning the why of things is a separate and much more daunting task. So I would make sure you separate the two things cleanly. First I would learn the technical, i.e. - how do things work aspect and then worry about the why is it done this way instead of that way. I have found that often I will stop and question something before I have fully understood all the relevant points. This type of questioning is very useful but too much can bog you down in minutiae too soon. I would say a 80/20 (technical/what the hell?) approach works best, at least for me. It is difficult to achieve this 80/20 but that is usually my goal, the what the hell questions serve to drive me towards greater technical understanding, once you achieve a comfort level with the technical, you often can answer your own questions then start gaining true insight and of course start asking better questions. Max > > Does anyone have suggestions of where to look for some kind of summary > that offers explanations rather than just howtos? > > Rome will not rise or fall based on these questions, but if you are > sitting in front of your computer right now looking for a good reason to > procrastinate over real work, give my questions a whirl. > > -- > Regards Bill; > Fedora 9, Gnome 2.22.2 > Evo.2.22.2, Emacs 22.2.1 > > -- > fedora-list mailing list > fedora-list@redhat.com > To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list > -- If opinions were really like assholes we'd each have just one -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list
Re: Sunday Morning idle queries ??
On Sun, 2008-07-06 at 10:16 -0400, William Case wrote: > Hi; Hi Bill, > Just wondering about a few things: > > 1) I noticed a program in the latest update list called 'augeas' for > editing config files. I have gone to their site etc.-- looks > interesting. Has anyone have experience using it and would like to > comment? Installing it now to check it out. Nice idea, as long as they can keep the config file descriptions in sync with the various packages. > 2) I have just installed kmod-nvidia from livnia. I have been watching > the discussion here on its effectiveness re: Xorg etc. It seems to work > fine for me. Now the question is: which is the best 3D application > (window manager??) to use with it? Compiz? No opinion. I presume if you have a fancy graphics card you got it for some sepcific reason, otherwise you don't need it. Nowadays onboard video chipsets are more than enough for everyday use, for many values of "everyday" (I can even run Compiz on my Intel 965, I just can't be bothered). > 3) My project for the next while is to work out how various multimedia > work. The more I delve into the subject the more confusing it gets. > I can find lots of info on the various pieces of hardware used, but then > what? How do various software components fit together e.g. gstreamer, > xine, Totem, ripping, burning, editing, codecs, audio (drivers), video > (drivers), etc., etc. Info and howtos on individual pieces of software > exist, but I can't seem to find anything online or a textbook that puts > it all together in an overview. Wikipedia, for example, is full of > stubs on this subject. Good luck with that (really). It's a definite hole that needs to be filled. I'm sure if you do it collaboratively, maybe as a Wiki, people will be glad to contribute what they know. Cheers poc -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list
