sound recording with Fedora 11
Hi all; my son (the musician) has Fedora 11 installed on an HP HDX-16 laptop. He wants to record some of his band sessions, we tried using 'sound recorder' and plugging the output of his mixer into the mic input on the laptop. It does record but the sound is fuzzy and to say it was poor quality would be an over-estimate, since it's there but barely audible. Can anyone give us some direction per sound recorders for linux in general and specifically how to debug & correct this issue with the mic input? Thanks in advance.. -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: sound recording with Fedora 11
Kevin Kempter wrote: > Hi all; > > my son (the musician) has Fedora 11 installed on an HP HDX-16 laptop. > > He wants to record some of his band sessions, we tried using 'sound recorder' > and plugging the output of his mixer into the mic input on the laptop. > > It does record but the sound is fuzzy and to say it was poor quality would be > an over-estimate, since it's there but barely audible. > > > Can anyone give us some direction per sound recorders for linux in general > and > specifically how to debug & correct this issue with the mic input? > > > Thanks in advance.. > One quick tip - use the line input instead of the mic input if you have one. The output of your mixer is going to be the wrong level for the mic input. Also, you need to set the record level, and not the monitor or output level of the input you want to use. (Depending on what mixer, you may only have a capture control and a mic mute.) Mikkel -- Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for thou art crunchy and taste good with Ketchup! signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: sound recording with Fedora 11
Kevin Kempter wrote: > He wants to record some of his band sessions, we tried using 'sound recorder' > and plugging the output of his mixer into the mic input on the laptop. > > It does record but the sound is fuzzy and to say it was poor quality would be > an over-estimate, since it's there but barely audible. i have been out of audio systems for a while, and a lot of what i learned has changed. most mic inputs were of high impedance as it was cheaper to make a high impedance mic than a low impedance. today a lot of that has changed and many mics are now dynamic low impedance. in 'band music' systems, mixer *line* outputs are of low impedance. if you are feeding a high impedance input with a low impedance line output, you can get poor sound quality. all of which is to say that quality of sound will be determined by what the laptop has for sound chip and circuitry and not program being used. if you have a desktop with both *mic* and *line* inputs, try connecting mixer's line output to each and see if you have get a difference in sound quality. i am basing this on fact that years back, in using a creative labs soundblaster 16, i had a pioneer sx4 stereo tuner connected to it and it worked very well. i later built a new system with a creative labs ct2940 and connected sx4 to it. sound was very poor. in checking for problems, i found that i had plugged into mic jack and not line jack. changing cleared problem. also, if you had to make up a cable to connect 1/4" phone jack to 1/8" mini phone jack, check to make sure no wires are crossed of touching and that you are using good quality cable with good shielding. cables like what are used for headsets are not good quality and many are not well shielded if at all. hth. -- peace out. tc,hago. g . in a free world without fences, who needs gates. ** help microsoft stamp out piracy - give linux to a friend today. ** to mess up a linux box, you need to work at it. to mess up an ms windows box, you just need to *look* at it. ** learn linux: 'Rute User's Tutorial and Exposition' http://rute.2038bug.com/index.html 'The Linux Documentation Project' http://www.tldp.org/ 'LDP HOWTO-index' http://www.tldp.org/HOWTO/HOWTO-INDEX/index.html 'HowtoForge' http://howtoforge.com/ signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: sound recording with Fedora 11
g wrote: > also, if you had to make up a cable to connect 1/4" phone jack to 1/8" mini > phone jack, check to make sure no wires are crossed of touching and that you > are using good quality cable with good shielding. > > cables like what are used for headsets are not good quality and many are not > well shielded if at all. in addition, if laptop is like most and does not have a *line* input jack, you can get a 'low/high' matching transformer. i would recommend using one of good quality, not radio shack. they can be found as 'in-line' with male-male, female-female, female-male, configurations at most electronic supply houses or at music equipment stores. you will probably pay more at music store. -- peace out. tc,hago. g . in a free world without fences, who needs gates. ** help microsoft stamp out piracy - give linux to a friend today. ** to mess up a linux box, you need to work at it. to mess up an ms windows box, you just need to *look* at it. ** learn linux: 'Rute User's Tutorial and Exposition' http://rute.2038bug.com/index.html 'The Linux Documentation Project' http://www.tldp.org/ 'LDP HOWTO-index' http://www.tldp.org/HOWTO/HOWTO-INDEX/index.html 'HowtoForge' http://howtoforge.com/ signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: sound recording with Fedora 11
Kevin Kempter wrote: > Can anyone give us some direction per sound > recorders for linux in general I had considerable success with audacity (from the rpmfusion-free repo) a few years back. I haven't tried it since the advent of pulseaudio. Last I heard, about a year ago, it did not support pulseaudio, but hopefully that has changed. Audacity is an awkward program to use, as it is definitely not intuitive, but it is a good program, once you learn how to use it. They have a web site with a lot of documentation. Also (again, my information is somewhat dated), there is/was an audacity in the fedora repo and another in rpmfusion. If you want to save your files to mp3, then you need the rpmfusion version; otherwise, it should not matter. There has also been a series of articles on sound in Linux Today (linuxtoday.com). Either subscribe to the rss feed and scroll back a few weeks, or search the articles. -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: sound recording with Fedora 11
If you want to "donate" the laptop to the band, have a look at ccarma http://ccrma.stanford.edu/planetccrma/software/ Kevin Kempter wrote: Hi all; my son (the musician) has Fedora 11 installed on an HP HDX-16 laptop. He wants to record some of his band sessions, we tried using 'sound recorder' and plugging the output of his mixer into the mic input on the laptop. It does record but the sound is fuzzy and to say it was poor quality would be an over-estimate, since it's there but barely audible. Can anyone give us some direction per sound recorders for linux in general and specifically how to debug & correct this issue with the mic input? Thanks in advance.. -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: sound recording with Fedora 11
Kevin Kempter: >> He wants to record some of his band sessions, we tried using 'sound >> recorder' >> and plugging the output of his mixer into the mic input on the laptop. In most cases, mixers have a high signal level output for connecting to line inputs, and the mic input will be over driven by 100 to 1000 times more voltage than it wants. So use the line input, externally attenuate the signal going to the mic input, or use an external sound device. g: > most mic inputs were of high impedance as it was cheaper to make a high > impedance mic than a low impedance. today a lot of that has changed and many > mics are now dynamic low impedance. *Most* microphones, domestic and professional, have been, and nearly always have been, low impedance. Very old school thought was to match the input stage impedance to the microphone impedance, later on most manufacturers moved to using high impedance input stages. High impedance microphones only work well into high impedance input stages, most low impedance microphones will work into either, and there are some other benefits in using high impedance inputs. There are also some benefits in using low impedance input stages, but they're not usually an issue. And it's only a few microphones that require a low impedance stage. > if you are feeding a high impedance input with a low impedance line output, > you can get poor sound quality. While that's true, their problem is far more likely to do with signal level differences. i.e. A microphone level may be .0001 to .001 volts, compared to a line level which may be .1 to 2 volts, nominally. There are some very large variations in nominal mic and line levels. Computers often have lousy built in audio hardware, and it's working in a very electrically noisy environment. Plugging in an external sound device, such as via the USB ports, can make a large improvement to the sound quality. It can also help in giving you larger, robust, connectors, and perhaps the connectors that you want (e.g. XLR, RCA, or quarter-inch jacks, rather than those unreliable 3.5 mm jacks). If you do use the computer's own sound hardware, you really want to use the line level. It'll probably be the right signal level, and the quietest input on the computer. The microphone will have a large amount of gain, making it noisier, and will probably have DC on the socket for powering the average computer microphone. You don't want DC going to anything else, it can wreck things. Or, at the very least, make awful noises if the connection is not tight. Tim (who works in television and video production). -- [...@localhost ~]$ uname -r 2.6.27.25-78.2.56.fc9.i686 Don't send private replies to my address, the mailbox is ignored. I read messages from the public lists. -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: sound recording with Fedora 11
On Fri, 23 Oct 2009 16:34:19 -0600 Kevin Kempter wrote: > Hi all; > > my son (the musician) has Fedora 11 installed on an HP HDX-16 laptop. > > He wants to record some of his band sessions, we tried using 'sound recorder' > and plugging the output of his mixer into the mic input on the laptop. > > It does record but the sound is fuzzy and to say it was poor quality would be > an over-estimate, since it's there but barely audible. > > > Can anyone give us some direction per sound recorders for linux in general > and > specifically how to debug & correct this issue with the mic input? Same as any other audio system Start by - Making sure the deck output and the laptop input impedance match - Probably you want line-in not mic - Try and get the levels right each end - usual rule of thumb is that the analogue amps are most linear around 66%, digital doesn't matter. - If at all possible use the digital input (and to be honest with the noise you get in a PC environment if you are doing anything remotely serious [1] then you probably want to get hardware with a digital input if the laptop doesn't have it anyway (eg a USB dongle) Alan [1] If you didn't spend $200+ on the microphones you probably aren't in this category ;) -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: sound recording with Fedora 11
Kevin Kempter wrote: > He wants to record some of his band sessions, we tried using 'sound recorder' > and plugging the output of his mixer into the mic input on the laptop. > > It does record but the sound is fuzzy and to say it was poor quality would be > an over-estimate, since it's there but barely audible. no reply as trying to use 'line input', or even if you have such, so i am going to do some presuming. after a good nights rest and a lot of thinking before and after, there are several ways that you may get quality sound as you would like. as i said before, it has been a while from last working in audio field. this was primarily design, installation, and service of equipment use in recording studios, school and public auditoriums, gymnasiums, churches, and other places where top quality full fidelity sound was required. i also did many custom home systems for homes that had rooms for such. some of equipment used was altec lansing, ampex, garrard, langiven, philips, recocut, sienhouser, and several others that i do not recall. in working with these systems, there where times that i had to do circuit designing. including rlc filters, calculating of passive resistive padding, many of which, luckily, were from charts and tables. all of my manuals are now stored in boxes, including my altec acostavoice manual which holds many of basic circuit/system design and formulas that i used. so, it is a little slow going looking for information thru google. google produces a lot of hits, and a whole lot to go thru for what i want. your problem with 'fuzzy' sound, as mentioned before, is more of a problem with impedance mismatch and excess signal level. 'fuzzy' is a common sound description when clipping is produced, and other wave form distortion. if you do have a 'line input' use it. also, cut back on gain level of mixers master gain control. 1/2 to 1/4 of normal setting is a good place to start. in a 'normal' operation, mixer inputs and driver amps are preset to a level and mixer *master* is used to control over all level with some slight input level adjusting. in feeding to computer, use level control of software for sound chip to do your level control after you have mixer's channel inputs set. if you have dual line outputs and you want to feed both computer recording and driver amps for monitoring, set mixer master to a low level and adjust level controls on amps to desired. this can be a problem, as it may require frequent adjusting of driver amps. this can be worked around by using a 'bridging' preamp connected to output of mixer to split signal to driver amps and computer and all be controlled from one place. i worked up a simple layout of how this would work using 'xcircuit' and put a snapshot on imagebin, circuit is; http://imagebin.org/69042 for next 7 days. there is another way of doing this using a resistive divider network in line out of mixer between input for amps and computer audio input. it would require a variable attenuator for amp line. if you want, i can work you up a circuit, with values for divider, but i recommend using a commercial made balanced bridged-t attenuator. hth. -- peace out. tc,hago. g . in a free world without fences, who needs gates. ** help microsoft stamp out piracy - give linux to a friend today. ** to mess up a linux box, you need to work at it. to mess up an ms windows box, you just need to *look* at it. ** learn linux: 'Rute User's Tutorial and Exposition' http://rute.2038bug.com/index.html 'The Linux Documentation Project' http://www.tldp.org/ 'LDP HOWTO-index' http://www.tldp.org/HOWTO/HOWTO-INDEX/index.html 'HowtoForge' http://howtoforge.com/ signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: sound recording with Fedora 11
Kevin Kempter wrote: Hi all; my son (the musician) has Fedora 11 installed on an HP HDX-16 laptop. He wants to record some of his band sessions, we tried using 'sound recorder' and plugging the output of his mixer into the mic input on the laptop. It does record but the sound is fuzzy and to say it was poor quality would be an over-estimate, since it's there but barely audible. Can anyone give us some direction per sound recorders for linux in general and specifically how to debug & correct this issue with the mic input? I have noticed using audacity that all my recordings made with pulseaudio have a large DC component. While that can be stripped and the level of actual audio boosted to useful volume, the fidelity is poor. Running FC6 (I still have it to dual boot) I do not have that problem with the same hardware. Any "it's your hardware" argument should include an explanation for that, mine is "pulseaudio sucks." Note that the recorder function produces similar results, as does 'rec' from the sox package, so I'm reasonable sure the application isn't the issue. I've used 'alsamixer -c0' to set levels to reasonable values. This may be a settings problem, but the idea of having four interacting mixer features does seem to be "needlessly complex," although several people have told me it's needed to be flexible. I think "usable" would be a good default, and people who want to "flex" should have to install PA as an option. -- Bill Davidsen "We have more to fear from the bungling of the incompetent than from the machinations of the wicked." - from Slashdot -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: sound recording with Fedora 11
Tim wrote: > Tim (who works in television and video production). being that with above, you admit to your limited knowledge of true full fidelity audio, i need to make no further comments to your post. -- peace out. tc,hago. g . in a free world without fences, who needs gates. ** help microsoft stamp out piracy - give linux to a friend today. ** to mess up a linux box, you need to work at it. to mess up an ms windows box, you just need to *look* at it. ** learn linux: 'Rute User's Tutorial and Exposition' http://rute.2038bug.com/index.html 'The Linux Documentation Project' http://www.tldp.org/ 'LDP HOWTO-index' http://www.tldp.org/HOWTO/HOWTO-INDEX/index.html 'HowtoForge' http://howtoforge.com/ signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: sound recording with Fedora 11
g wrote: > Tim wrote: > > >> Tim (who works in television and video production). >> > > being that with above, you admit to your limited knowledge of true full > fidelity audio, i need to make no further comments to your post. > > > My, my that was totally uncalled for. Why disparage someone on the list who is trying to be helpful? If you disagree with someone, it is a simple matter to say you disagree and, if is worth your time (IMHO it should be), present your alternative view. I mean, don't you want to set the record straight? (Full disclosure: I tend to dismiss people who proclaim "the other poster is 'wrong'" without offering their viewpoint or reasons.) IMHO, Tim's statement doesn't admit to anything. You can say..."based on your statement I believe you have limited...". I just find your post needlessly inflammatory. -- C-3PO: Sir, the possibility of successfully navigating an asteroid field is approximately 3,720 to 1! Han Solo: Never tell me the odds! Guess Who! http://tinyurl.com/mc4xe7 signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: sound recording with Fedora 11
Ed Greshko wrote: > I just find your post needlessly inflammatory. that is your problem. not mine or tim's. tim has been in broadcast for some time and as it has been for longer than he has been in broadcast and i have been in audio, which does include video, there has been a joking between the two different fields. but this is obviously something that you were unaware of until now. so, kafba. :) -- peace out. tc,hago. g . in a free world without fences, who needs gates. ** help microsoft stamp out piracy - give linux to a friend today. ** to mess up a linux box, you need to work at it. to mess up an ms windows box, you just need to *look* at it. ** learn linux: 'Rute User's Tutorial and Exposition' http://rute.2038bug.com/index.html 'The Linux Documentation Project' http://www.tldp.org/ 'LDP HOWTO-index' http://www.tldp.org/HOWTO/HOWTO-INDEX/index.html 'HowtoForge' http://howtoforge.com/ signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: sound recording with Fedora 11
g wrote: > Ed Greshko wrote: > > >> I just find your post needlessly inflammatory. >> > > that is your problem. not mine or tim's. > Actually, is no problem for me either... Just a statement. > tim has been in broadcast for some time and as it has been for longer than > he has been in broadcast and i have been in audio, which does include video, > there has been a joking between the two different fields. > > but this is obviously something that you were unaware of until now. > And, someone reading the archives won't know it either. Best buddies stuff is cute, off the list FWIW, you missed out on adding anything like :-) which would help the clueless know you are joking. So, I have my doubts that it really was. > so, kafba. :) > > Whatever -- Liar: one who tells an unpleasant truth. -- Oliver Herford Guess Who! http://tinyurl.com/mc4xe7 signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: sound recording with Fedora 11
Ed Greshko wrote: > FWIW, you missed out on adding anything like :-) which would help the > clueless know you are joking. So, I have my doubts that it really was. yes. you are clueless. google ''. >> so, kafba. :) >> > Whatever even more clueless, you are. while you are at it, look for 'kafba'. -- peace out. tc,hago. g . in a free world without fences, who needs gates. ** help microsoft stamp out piracy - give linux to a friend today. ** to mess up a linux box, you need to work at it. to mess up an ms windows box, you just need to *look* at it. ** learn linux: 'Rute User's Tutorial and Exposition' http://rute.2038bug.com/index.html 'The Linux Documentation Project' http://www.tldp.org/ 'LDP HOWTO-index' http://www.tldp.org/HOWTO/HOWTO-INDEX/index.html 'HowtoForge' http://howtoforge.com/ signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: sound recording with Fedora 11
g wrote: > Ed Greshko wrote: > > >> FWIW, you missed out on adding anything like :-) which would help the >> clueless know you are joking. So, I have my doubts that it really was. >> > > yes. you are clueless. > Nice try > google ''. > > > >>> so, kafba. :) >>> >>> >> Whatever >> > > even more clueless, you are. > > while you are at it, look for 'kafba'. > > I have no desire to look up those "terms" I enjoy trivia ... not trivial. signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: sound recording with Fedora 11
Tim: >> Tim (who works in television and video production). g: > being that with above, you admit to your limited knowledge of true full > fidelity audio, i need to make no further comments to your post. Nobody likes a jackass... -- [...@localhost ~]$ uname -r 2.6.27.25-78.2.56.fc9.i686 Don't send private replies to my address, the mailbox is ignored. I read messages from the public lists. -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
